Interstate 42

[orulz]

How you wrote it can be interpreted as Wilmington asked for I-140 in 1997.

Yes you are right and in fact I was confused about that. So thanks for setting the facts straight.

However I still think Wilmington considering applying for an I-x40 designation for its US17 bypass in 1997 is a very relevant if not 100% equal comparison for New Bern considering applying for an I-x42 designation for its US17 bypass in 2016.

The points on which it is not equal are that New Bern is still somewhat smaller than Wilmington was then, and that the I-42 corridor is not yet complete. So I am not saying this should happen right away. But give it a decade or so and I think we will find New Bern has a pretty convincing argument.

[Interstate 69 Fan]

I watched a YouTube video along the Goldsboro Bypass that was published earlier this month, and to my surprise, Future Interstate signs were up, but without I-42 shields. Weird!

[LM117]

I watched a YouTube video along the Goldsboro Bypass that was published earlier this month, and to my surprise, Future Interstate signs were up, but without I-42 shields. Weird!

Huh? This was the most recent video I could find (uploaded July 4) and I believe I-42 shields have been put up on the blank signs since then.

[Interstate 69 Fan]

I watched a YouTube video along the Goldsboro Bypass that was published earlier this month, and to my surprise, Future Interstate signs were up, but without I-42 shields. Weird!

Huh? This was the most recent video I could find (uploaded July 4) and I believe I-42 shields have been put up on the blank signs since then.

Someone commented on it, and I saw the sign, but no I-42 shields. I could've sworn I saw a later video.

[The Ghostbuster]

Why would they put up Future Interstate signs, but omit the Interstate 42 designation?

[Mapmikey]

Why would they put up Future Interstate signs, but omit the Interstate 42 designation?

Signs were put up before a number was settled upon...

[slorydn1]

I saw somewhere up-thread (a different page so I don't feel like going back and quoting it now) that someone was comparing New Bern to Wilmington. I just about fell out of my chair when they used the population of the entire New Bern MSA to compare it to Wilmington's city population, but enough on that.

I don't ever foresee a time that the Neuse River Bridge between New Bern and Bridgeton would be an interstate. I am fairly confident that when they finish the northern section of the New Bern Bypass that the Neuse River Bridge would lose its mainline US designation and either be US-17 Business or possibly even just NC-55. I say this because they already moved mainline US-17 onto the bypass between Jones County and US-70.

I also don't see the New Bern Bypass ever being signed as an interstate unless US-17 as a whole becomes an interstate through the entire state. As Froggie astutely noted in conversations we have had over the years on this issue, it really isn't needed. Back in the MTR days I was pushing for a true coastal interstate through this area as I-95 was too far away from the coast here, but years later it seems that Froggie has been right and I was wrong.


What US-17 did need, and is finally within a decade or so of being done, is to be 4-laned throughout the state. That, coupled with proper bypasses, has made US-17 a much more enjoyable trip through the area, and I can't wait until the work is finished in Jones County.


So in summary I don't believe there will ever be any I-x42's in Craven or Jones counties.

[LM117]

I also don't see the New Bern Bypass ever being signed as an interstate unless US-17 as a whole becomes an interstate through the entire state. As Froggie astutely noted in conversations we have had over the years on this issue, it really isn't needed. Back in the MTR days I was pushing for a true coastal interstate through this area as I-95 was too far away from the coast here, but years later it seems that Froggie has been right and I was wrong.


What US-17 did need, and is finally within a decade or so of being done, is to be 4-laned throughout the state. That, coupled with proper bypasses, has made US-17 a much more enjoyable trip through the area, and I can't wait until the work is finished in Jones County.


So in summary I don't believe there will ever be any I-x42's in Craven or Jones counties.

I agree. I don't see any need for US-17 (outside of I-87's corridor) to become an interstate unless it ran from I-95 near Savannah GA to I-87 in Wiliamston. Virginia did a feasability study about 10 years ago on a possible interstate (I-99) that would run from I-95 in SC north of Savannah to I-95 in Wilmington, DE. SC said they weren't interested, NC turned it down due to lack of funding and Delaware & Maryland couldn't agree on the routing. Then there was the very expensive problem of upgrading the Chesapeake Bay-Bridge Tunnel between Virginia Beach & the Eastern Shore. Upgrading US-13 to interstate standards on the Eastern Shore would've had a huge environmental impact that would be virtually impossible to mitigate, so the whole I-99 proposal was killed.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.virginiadot.org/projects/resources/I-99_Final_Report_-_VDOT_website.pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwi8idq0tqPQAhUJ94MKHfmNBQkQFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNGLgExuSi9ig3hqh2Lx-Pwr_Yb3GQ

I don't think there will be an I-x42 anywhere along the whole corridor. The Kinston-Bethel interstate (if it passes Congress) will probably become another I-x87 since Kinston wants the Global TransPark to have interstate access to the Port of Virginia in Norfolk and Greenville is practically doing jumping jacks at the idea of having interstate connections to not one, but two nearby metros. NCDOT has already applied for the Future I-587 designation for US-264 between Zebulon and Greenville.

[orulz]

I saw somewhere up-thread (a different page so I don't feel like going back and quoting it now) that someone was comparing New Bern to Wilmington. I just about fell out of my chair when they used the population of the entire New Bern MSA to compare it to Wilmington's city population, but enough on that.

Actually I used MSA population numbers for both. Please have another look. The thrust of the argument is that New Ben's MSA today is 3/5 the size of the Wilmington MSA in 1997, which is when officials first started discussing an interstate designation for the Wilmington bypass. But even though New Bern today is clearly comparable (though admittedly not equal) with Wilmington of 20 years ago in terms of population, I actually don't even think that population is all that relevant in the first place. when considering whether the US 17 New Bern bypass is designated as an interstate or not.

I don't ever foresee a time that the Neuse River Bridge between New Bern and Bridgeton would be an interstate. I am fairly confident that when they finish the northern section of the New Bern Bypass that the Neuse River Bridge would lose its mainline US designation and either be US-17 Business or possibly even just NC-55. I say this because they already moved mainline US-17 onto the bypass between Jones County and US-70.

Completely agree with this one.

I also don't see the New Bern Bypass ever being signed as an interstate unless US-17 as a whole becomes an interstate through the entire state. As Froggie astutely noted in conversations we have had over the years on this issue, it really isn't needed. Back in the MTR days I was pushing for a true coastal interstate through this area as I-95 was too far away from the coast here, but years later it seems that Froggie has been right and I was wrong.

What US-17 did need, and is finally within a decade or so of being done, is to be 4-laned throughout the state. That, coupled with proper bypasses, has made US-17 a much more enjoyable trip through the area, and I can't wait until the work is finished in Jones County.

Again, I completely agree with this one.

So in summary I don't believe there will ever be any I-x42's in Craven or Jones counties.

I disagree. For a New Bern I-X42 recall I am not proposing that hundreds of millions of dollars be spent to build a new interstate. This is just a matter of numbering and signing for a long planned highway corridor that is already half-built, and already up to interstate standards AFAIK. Given the extremely low cost of this over what is already planned, and that this would be very desirable to Craven County officials, and also given NC's tendency to go for interstate designation whenever possible, I still argue that seeking an I-X42 designation is extremely likely - and would be even if New Bern were half its population. Whether it would be approved or not is another matter, but frankly I don't see any reasonable grounds for denial. The only grounds would be "sorry New Bern, you're too much of a backwater, no designation for you!" Honestly that is a pretty good argument for why a bypass isn't needed at all, but since the political machinery in NC has already planned this bypass, and indeed built half of it, an X42 designation should be almost a given.

[slorydn1]

So in summary I don't believe there will ever be any I-x42's in Craven or Jones counties.

I disagree. For a New Bern I-X42 recall I am not proposing that hundreds of millions of dollars be spent to build a new interstate. This is just a matter of numbering and signing for a long planned highway corridor that is already half-built, and already up to interstate standards AFAIK. Given the extremely low cost of this over what is already planned, and that this would be very desirable to Craven County officials, and also given NC's tendency to go for interstate designation whenever possible, I still argue that seeking an I-X42 designation is extremely likely - and would be even if New Bern were half its population. Whether it would be approved or not is another matter, but frankly I don't see any reasonable grounds for denial. The only grounds would be "sorry New Bern, you're too much of a backwater, no designation for you!" Honestly that is a pretty good argument for why a bypass isn't needed at all, but since the political machinery in NC has already planned this bypass, and indeed built half of it, an X42 designation should be almost a given.

I'm not saying that I am absolutely ruling out the notion that the New Bern Bypass may someday bear and interstate number, I am merely saying it will not be a 3di child of I-42.
The only way I see I-xx on the bypass is if the entire US-17 corridor is upgraded to an interstate highway, something that there doesn't seem to be a need for, at least not at this time.

I've lived here in New Bern for almost 26 years now, so I was here when we were still using the old draw bridge to cross the Neuse River from downtown New Bern to Bridgeton. The road was 2 lanes from Jacksonville all the way to the Craven County line, and only 4 lanes from there all the way to the old bridge which was only 2 lanes again.

Any significant incident downtown near the bridge had the effect of backing traffic up all the way past the mall and Walmart, sometimes even as far down as River Bend!

Our state senator from that time period was none other than Beverly Purdue. There had been talk for years about building the Neuse River Bridge that exists today for years before I moved here, but there wasn't much being done to actually get it done. Purdue started moving up the ladder in the state senate and the bridge got built. Concurrent with that, M L King Jr Blvd (still named Clarendon Blvd at the time) was expanded to 6 lanes and that eased traffic somewhat between Trent Rd and US-70. The realignment of US-17 onto the US-70 freeway took care of the rest of town.

As New Bern grew, and more stoplights were added between South Glenburnie Rd and US-70 it became clear that even the 6 lanes of MLK weren't enough, especially during the summer months with beach traffic coming through. So there was a push to build a bypass for US-17 to send it west of the city entirely. As you well know the southern half has been done for several years, the northern half is planned but not funded to be built any time soon. When it is built, my understanding is that the northern end in Ernul will be very much like the southern end in Jones County: ending at a 3 way intersection with a stoplight.

I'm ashamed to admit that I am not as up on my interstate standards as I should be but I think the very small left shoulder as well as the very narrow central median is not up to current interstate standards (I could be wrong though and I am sure one of our experts will correct me if I am). The south end in Jones County is definitely not. The US-70 interchange is high speed and flowing from US-17 NB to US-70 EB, and from US-70 EB to US-17 SB. The clover leaf ramps from US-17 NB to US-70 WB and US-70 WB to US-17 SB, however, are tight and have that 1960's feel to them. I guess I bring this up to illustrate that the bypass was never built with the idea that it might be part of an interstate someday, it was merely built to get US-17 out of New Bern.

I-42 is coming. It's going to link New Bern to Raleigh, and New Bern to the state port. We're getting the interstate that the powers that be wanted, and it's already going to be taking us to where we want to go. There is no need for, and I have not heard of, a push for a a second interstate to cross our area. Yes, NC loves procuring more than it's share of interstate highways, but there is almost always a local push behind that, and that just doesn't seem to be the case, here.

[orulz]

As for interstate standards, measurements I did on Google Maps indicate that the US 17 New Bern bypass is built with exactly the same dimensions as the recently opened Goldsboro Bypass, in terms of ramp curvature, as well as shoulder and median width. An extension of the bypass is also already under construction which will stay a full 70mph interstate standard freeway until where it rejoins the present US 17 alignment south of Pollocksville.

Why go to the trouble of interstate standards if you do not intend to go for interstate designation?

LGL44VL

[Brandon]

As for interstate standards, measurements I did on Google Maps indicate that the US 17 New Bern bypass is built with exactly the same dimensions as the recently opened Goldsboro Bypass, in terms of ramp curvature, as well as shoulder and median width. An extension of the bypass is also already under construction which will stay a full 70mph interstate standard freeway until where it rejoins the present US 17 alignment south of Pollocksville.

Why go to the trouble of interstate standards if you do not intend to go for interstate designation?

Why not?  Other states do that all the time with non-interstate freeways.

[LM117]

Yes, NC loves procuring more than it's share of interstate highways, but there is almost always a local push behind that, and that just doesn't seem to be the case, here.

Exactly. Kinston got the surrounding counties onboard and pushed heavily for an interstate designation for US-70. Hello I-42. Raleigh and Rocky Mount pushed for an interstate to I-95 & Norfolk. Hello I-495 I-87. Recently, Greenville has been pushing for an interstate designation for US-264 between Zebulon and Greenville. Now we're only a few days away from finding out whether or not Future I-587 will be joining the party. Tomorrow is AASHTO's final day of their fall meeting.

[wdcrft63]

Yes, NC loves procuring more than it's share of interstate highways, but there is almost always a local push behind that, and that just doesn't seem to be the case, here.

Exactly. Kinston got the surrounding counties onboard and pushed heavily for an interstate designation for US-70. Hello I-42. Raleigh and Rocky Mount pushed for an interstate to I-95 & Norfolk. Hello I-495 I-87. Recently, Greenville has been pushing for an interstate designation for US-264 between Zebulon and Greenville. Now we're only a few days away from finding out whether or not Future I-587 will be joining the party. Tomorrow is AASHTO's final day of their fall meeting.

The statement "NC loves procuring more than it's share of interstate highways" probably has other forum members nodding their heads. Putting aside the question of whether there's some sort of "fair share" that NC is exceeding, it's wrong to think that NCDOT is obsessed with slapping interstate shields on every freeway or proposed freeway in the state. The interstate designations for I-42, I-87, and I-587 were sought only because there was strong pressure to do so from the communities served by those roads. Absent that kind of local pressure, NCDOT isn't likely to seek an interstate designation.

[froggie]

Why go to the trouble of interstate standards if you do not intend to go for interstate designation?

Current Green Book standards for freeway construction are basically the same as Interstate standards, with the only real exception being shoulder surface....some states still do narrower, dirt, or gravel shoulders even on new construction.

[The Ghostbuster]

I personally don't think Future Interstate 42 needs any three-digit Interstate spurs, but that's just my opinion.

[Jmiles32]

Since Future I-42 already goes through New Burn, the city likely really doesn't care if it gets another, the only reason I could see an I-x42 ever being created would be to connect to Jacksonville NC. If I-587 is fully approved, Jacksonville I believe would be NC's new most populated area not served by an interstate which of course is not very appealing( just ask Greenville). If this were to happen then NC might as well make the whole US-17 in the state an interstate since now it would be part of three across two thirds of the state( I-140, I-x42, I-87).

[wdcrft63]

Since Future I-42 already goes through New Burn, the city likely really doesn't care if it gets another, the only reason I could see an I-x42 ever being created would be to connect to Jacksonville NC. If I-587 is fully approved, Jacksonville I believe would be NC's new most populated area not served by an interstate which of course is not very appealing( just ask Greenville). If this were to happen then NC might as well make the whole US-17 in the state an interstate since now it would be part of three across two thirds of the state( I-140, I-x42, I-87).

NCDOT does have a proposed project to build a freeway from 140 on the northeast side of Wilmington to US 17 north of Hampstead, but as far as I know no one has suggested that should be designated as an extension of I-140. And there are no plans for a freeway (again AFAIK) between Hampstead and Jacksonville. Here's a link for the Hampstead Bypass project:
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/US17HampsteadBypass/

[Mr. ENC]

Since Future I-42 already goes through New Burn, the city likely really doesn't care if it gets another, the only reason I could see an I-x42 ever being created would be to connect to Jacksonville NC. If I-587 is fully approved, Jacksonville I believe would be NC's new most populated area not served by an interstate which of course is not very appealing( just ask Greenville). If this were to happen then NC might as well make the whole US-17 in the state an interstate since now it would be part of three across two thirds of the state( I-140, I-x42, I-87).

NCDOT does have a proposed project to build a freeway from 140 on the northeast side of Wilmington to US 17 north of Hampstead, but as far as I know no one has suggested that should be designated as an extension of I-140. And there are no plans for a freeway (again AFAIK) between Hampstead and Jacksonville. Here's a link for the Hampstead Bypass project:
https://www.ncdot.gov/projects/US17HampsteadBypass/

I always felt that there needs to be a bypass that connects Greenville, New Bern, Jacksonville, and Wilmington. Call it 995, 140, 787, etc. Have it run with NC 43 between Greenville and New Bern, and then Hwy 17 with everything else.

[LM117]

The Super 70 Corridor Commission posted the status of the projects on US-70 as of December 1.

http://www.super70corridor.com/cms/lib04/NC01920485/Centricity/Domain/14/US%2070%20Corridor%20Status-%20Dec%202016.docx

Speaking of status, I'm surprised NCDOT did not send applications to AASHTO during their fall meeting to have the Clayton and Goldsboro bypasses fully signed as I-42.

[slorydn1]

The Super 70 Corridor Commission posted the status of the projects on US-70 as of December 1.

http://www.super70corridor.com/cms/lib04/NC01920485/Centricity/Domain/14/US%2070%20Corridor%20Status-%20Dec%202016.docx


Speaking of status, I'm surprised NCDOT did not send applications to AASHTO during their fall meeting to have the Clayton and Goldsboro bypasses fully signed as I-42.

It doesn't surprise me, actually. If they did that, and AASHTO/FHWA agreed, then you have additional signage to be placed in the field, a concurrency they may or may not want, oh and the expense of changing the BGS's at either end of the bypass yet again, changes to be made to the BGS's on I-795 at the bypass exit (etc etc etc). Just for that reason, I don't see them petitioning to officially sign any of I-42 until it's ready from I-40 all the way to at least the east end of the Goldsboro bypass.

[wdcrft63]

The Super 70 Corridor Commission posted the status of the projects on US-70 as of December 1.

http://www.super70corridor.com/cms/lib04/NC01920485/Centricity/Domain/14/US%2070%20Corridor%20Status-%20Dec%202016.docx


Speaking of status, I'm surprised NCDOT did not send applications to AASHTO during their fall meeting to have the Clayton and Goldsboro bypasses fully signed as I-42.

It doesn't surprise me, actually. If they did that, and AASHTO/FHWA agreed, then you have additional signage to be placed in the field, a concurrency they may or may not want, oh and the expense of changing the BGS's at either end of the bypass yet again, changes to be made to the BGS's on I-795 at the bypass exit (etc etc etc). Just for that reason, I don't see them petitioning to officially sign any of I-42 until it's ready from I-40 all the way to at least the east end of the Goldsboro bypass.

I agree. For the time being,everyone is happy just to have the "future interstate corridor" signs.

[bob7374]

Another Future I-42 project is to be funded according to this NCDOT News Release: https://apps.ncdot.gov/NewsReleases/details.aspx?r=13370

a project for "Upgrading U.S. 70 to freeway standards from the west end of the U.S. 70 [Goldsboro] Bypass [east] to the Wayne-Johnston county line" has been added to the upcoming Draft 2017-2027 STIP to be released in January.

[CanesFan27]

The Super 70 Corridor Commission posted the status of the projects on US-70 as of December 1.

http://www.super70corridor.com/cms/lib04/NC01920485/Centricity/Domain/14/US%2070%20Corridor%20Status-%20Dec%202016.docx


Speaking of status, I'm surprised NCDOT did not send applications to AASHTO during their fall meeting to have the Clayton and Goldsboro bypasses fully signed as I-42.

It doesn't surprise me, actually. If they did that, and AASHTO/FHWA agreed, then you have additional signage to be placed in the field, a concurrency they may or may not want, oh and the expense of changing the BGS's at either end of the bypass yet again, changes to be made to the BGS's on I-795 at the bypass exit (etc etc etc). Just for that reason, I don't see them petitioning to officially sign any of I-42 until it's ready from I-40 all the way to at least the east end of the Goldsboro bypass.

I agree. For the time being,everyone is happy just to have the "future interstate corridor" signs.

May just be they haven't figured out what to do with NC 42 just yet.

[LM117]

Another Future I-42 project is to be funded according to this NCDOT News Release: https://apps.ncdot.gov/NewsReleases/details.aspx?r=13370

a project for "Upgrading U.S. 70 to freeway standards from the west end of the U.S. 70 [Goldsboro] Bypass [east] to the Wayne-Johnston county line" has been added to the upcoming Draft 2017-2027 STIP to be released in January.

Great news!