Illinois 53 Extension

[3467]

I wonder if Lake will revive their 120 plan.
A quick look at the Trii County plan seems to show we are back at no build so nothing more than the projects in the no build map. Most of those will happen but nothing on 12. That and an arterial alternate were in this study.
Lake may luck out with more remote work. And losers population growth.

[edwaleni]

I wonder if Lake will revive their 120 plan.
A quick look at the Trii County plan seems to show we are back at no build so nothing more than the projects in the no build map. Most of those will happen but nothing on 12. That and an arterial alternate were in this study.
Lake may luck out with more remote work. And losers population growth.

I agree that if the IL-53 Extension is blown up, Lake should still do the work on east-west connectivity.

There is a very definite need for this.

[I-39]

I wonder if Lake will revive their 120 plan.
A quick look at the Trii County plan seems to show we are back at no build so nothing more than the projects in the no build map. Most of those will happen but nothing on 12. That and an arterial alternate were in this study.
Lake may luck out with more remote work. And losers population growth.

I agree that if the IL-53 Extension is blown up, Lake should still do the work on east-west connectivity.

There is a very definite need for this.

Indeed, but it's not going to significantly help unless it's a freeway.

[3467]

The 378 MB Tri County Access report is interesting. They looked at almost any alternative and were working on the tollway and 2 major arterial ideas. Since they left us with something it's not fully fictional but I don't see how Barrington would have gone for a 6 lane IL 59.
The spur to McHenry county never made the cut.
They focus a lot on arterial lanes but access controls seem to be something that would have a bigger impact in many cases.

[Revive 755]

^ I'm just starting to look over the slow to download Tri-County Access Report but there are a few questionable things already standing out, some of which are hopefully answered later in the report:

1) The no-build is missing several projects that were underway in 2019.  A small sample:
* The Randall Road widening and intersection improvements at Algonquin Road

* Nothing for Longmeadow Parkway - a new bridge and corridor over the Fox River is not regionally significant?  Seems at least as significant as the IL 60 - IL 83 - US 45 corridor  widening from the western IL 60 - IL 83 intersection to east of IL 21 as well as the widening of IL 62 through Barrington Hills.

* The IL 19 widening from east of IL 59 to west of Bartlett Road

* The Woodfield Road rebuild with intersection improvements at I-290.

* Is there another widening coming for I-94 north of the Wisconsin border?  I thought it has been a few years since the last one was completed up to Kenosha.

2) The initial range of alternatives seems lacking:
* No consideration for upgrading US 12 and using it for the extension, when six-laning IL 59 through Barrington was considered?

* Seems like an alternative for creating new arterial corridors with a few pieces of new construction is absent.  One that comes to mind is trying to create a single corridor using Quentin Road and Fairfield Road.

* Why is widening US 12 all the way to IL 31 considered, but the IL 120 expressway stops at US 12 near Volo?

[3467]

I think 19 might be out of the map. It seems the excised a western Elgin Ohare  out of the study area. Maybe because they will or did study that?
I agree on the rest.
Also noticed despite the public's noting the McHenry connection the tollway  never looked at it. That would support the idea the tollway never considered it viable.I

There is other fun stuff. Comments like can you get competent people to do demographics not CMAP.

[Finrod]

I've been to Long Grove.  They're so proud of their covered bridge.  Big deal, Parke County, Indiana has 20 of them.

[galacticskyway]

I've been to Long Grove.  They're so proud of their covered bridge.  Big deal, Parke County, Indiana has 20 of them.

Yeah plus the bridge isn't even close to the highway. Ultimately, tho, it's the rich people in Long Grove who don't want a major highway near their homes, and who are still clinging onto a time when Long Grove was an actual destination instead of a ghost town decades ago. The Christmas season there was cool as a kid, but c'mon, folks, it's not like a highway somewhere in the general vicinity is gonna drive even more people away. If it weren't for NIMBY Long Grovers it would have been up and a rather old freeway by now.

Also as far as I'm aware, 53 was supposed to be part of a major Madison-Chicago freeway at one point, connecting to US12 in Wisconsin. And if it were built, Chicagoland would have two complete ringways. Boston almost has three complete ringways, so I think two is more than conservative enough in terms of highway placement for such a big city. In addition to the FAP342 for the 53/120 project having been acquired already, IDOT also has FAP420 around Richmond.

* Why is widening US 12 all the way to IL 31 considered, but the IL 120 expressway stops at US 12 near Volo?

My assumption is that they anticipate it'll end up being necessary in the long-run anyway, even if they do build the freeway all the way from Lake Cook to 12 at the border. And it'll be helpful in the event that they do end up building that FAP420 Richmond Bypass. Plus 5-laning 12 until right before Richmond might make building the Richmond Bypass more politically feasible, I suspect, tho that remains to be seen. Either way 5-laning 12 is a fine enough stopgap, but I hardly think it's solid a long-term solution. The second ringway needs to be finished, and there needs to be a way to get between 53 and I-94 besides that joke of an arterial on Palatine road or the Lake-Cook strangler.

If they can get the Richmond Bypass and existing 53/120 project built, I think a "Lakelands Pkwy" or some kind of Volo/McHenry Bypass connecting those roads becomes more politically possible. And I think there are some places it could be routed as long as you don't much mind taking down some McMansions.

I'm usually someone who supports building more transit instead of highways in Chicagoland, but this is one of the very few projects I think needs to be built. I get the impulse not to build new big roads, but if we're gonna call it quits on building new highways let's please just complete the outer ringway and get another highway to distribute traffic to Wisconsin onto first. Finish what we started, then call it a wrap for the rest of the '20s. I think that's a reasonable compromise.

And I third the notion that US 12 is not fine - it needs to be at least six lanes for much of its length, needs fewer stoplights (many of which have red light cameras), more outer roads, and a bypass of the congested, slow section through Fox Lake.

Consider it "fourthed." I don't think they could get rid of many of the lights south of Miller Rd, but it does need to be rebuilt. I constantly drive that road and it's hellish at times. Have you all ever driven Hwy 13 downstate? I have a handful of times. Driving that thing feels like being in a well oiled machine, I think it's so well designed, especially now that it's six lanes all the way to Carbondale.

12 needs to be a bit more like 13. Make 12 a 6-lane arterial between Palatine and Miller Rds, then make it a 55mph expressway north till the light at 120. I wonder if they could get away with converting the lights at Bonner Rd and Old Rand Rd in Wauconda to J-turns? Plus I've been fantasizing about IDOT converting the Old McHenry light to a trumpet sometime in the long-run. And there needs to be an auxiliary lane on the northbound side at the interchange between 59 and 176 like there is on the southbound side. They're resurfacing it now as I type, but once it gets the end of its life cycle all this stuff needs to be done.

[edwaleni]

IL-53 could be a partial underground expressway around Long Grove and then put a park on top of it.

There are always answers, but Illinois being broke, and ISTHA not going to spend more than they have to collect the revenue leads to these types of stalemates.

It cost a lot but there is precedent for this nationally.  I-90 on Mercer Island is one. They did a cut away, built the road then covered it. People a block away don't even know a highway is there.

What Illinois is really afraid of is that if they placate Long Grove, then *everyone* on the route will want to be placated and while that is possible its just not feasible.

[Joe The Dragon]

Palatine road has the ROW to do something to make it better.

[Joe The Dragon]

I've been to Long Grove.  They're so proud of their covered bridge.  Big deal, Parke County, Indiana has 20 of them.

Yeah plus the bridge isn't even close to the highway. Ultimately, tho, it's the rich people in Long Grove who don't want a major highway near their homes, and who are still clinging onto a time when Long Grove was an actual destination instead of a ghost town decades ago. The Christmas season there was cool as a kid, but c'mon, folks, it's not like a highway somewhere in the general vicinity is gonna drive even more people away. If it weren't for NIMBY Long Grovers it would have been up and a rather old freeway by now.

Also as far as I'm aware, 53 was supposed to be part of a major Madison-Chicago freeway at one point, connecting to US12 in Wisconsin. And if it were built, Chicagoland would have two complete ringways. Boston almost has three complete ringways, so I think two is more than conservative enough in terms of highway placement for such a big city. In addition to the FAP342 for the 53/120 project having been acquired already, IDOT also has FAP420 around Richmond.

* Why is widening US 12 all the way to IL 31 considered, but the IL 120 expressway stops at US 12 near Volo?

My assumption is that they anticipate it'll end up being necessary in the long-run anyway, even if they do build the freeway all the way from Lake Cook to 12 at the border. And it'll be helpful in the event that they do end up building that FAP420 Richmond Bypass. Plus 5-laning 12 until right before Richmond might make building the Richmond Bypass more politically feasible, I suspect, tho that remains to be seen. Either way 5-laning 12 is a fine enough stopgap, but I hardly think it's solid a long-term solution. The second ringway needs to be finished, and there needs to be a way to get between 53 and I-94 besides that joke of an arterial on Palatine road or the Lake-Cook strangler.

If they can get the Richmond Bypass and existing 53/120 project built, I think a "Lakelands Pkwy" or some kind of Volo/McHenry Bypass connecting those roads becomes more politically possible. And I think there are some places it could be routed as long as you don't much mind taking down some McMansions.

I'm usually someone who supports building more transit instead of highways in Chicagoland, but this is one of the very few projects I think needs to be built. I get the impulse not to build new big roads, but if we're gonna call it quits on building new highways let's please just complete the outer ringway and get another highway to distribute traffic to Wisconsin onto first. Finish what we started, then call it a wrap for the rest of the '20s. I think that's a reasonable compromise.

And I third the notion that US 12 is not fine - it needs to be at least six lanes for much of its length, needs fewer stoplights (many of which have red light cameras), more outer roads, and a bypass of the congested, slow section through Fox Lake.

Consider it "fourthed." I don't think they could get rid of many of the lights south of Miller Rd, but it does need to be rebuilt. I constantly drive that road and it's hellish at times. Have you all ever driven Hwy 13 downstate? I have a handful of times. Driving that thing feels like being in a well oiled machine, I think it's so well designed, especially now that it's six lanes all the way to Carbondale.

12 needs to be a bit more like 13. Make 12 a 6-lane arterial between Palatine and Miller Rds, then make it a 55mph expressway north till the light at 120. I wonder if they could get away with converting the lights at Bonner Rd and Old Rand Rd in Wauconda to J-turns? Plus I've been fantasizing about IDOT converting the Old McHenry light to a trumpet sometime in the long-run. And there needs to be an auxiliary lane on the northbound side at the interchange between 59 and 176 like there is on the southbound side. They're resurfacing it now as I type, but once it gets the end of its life cycle all this stuff needs to be done.

Maybe make parts of it RIRO (remove some lights) with an few U-turn bays

[JoePCool14]

The second ringway needs to be finished, and there needs to be a way to get between 53 and I-94 besides that joke of an arterial on Palatine road or the Lake-Cook strangler.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one that thinks this. Palatine and Lake-Cook are not good enough connectors. Lake-Cook Road is improving with the construction in Buffalo Grove/Wheeling, and east of there is okay, but there really needs to be a proper expressway. Lake-Cook Road would be better if the speed limit was increased to at least 55, but we can't have that now can we? 

Palatine Road could be improved if the intersections with Wheeling, Windsor, and Schoenbeck (and I suppose also with Kennicott) were converted to be similar to the Elmhurst interchange, with a skinny diamond, no traffic lights. The intersections with Rand and Arlington Heights could be improved if some Michigan lefts were implemented to cut down on the signal phases. Of course, none of this will probably ever happen.

I also completely agree with US-12 needing improvements. I can't even count the number of signals that there are from the Wisconsin border to Lake-Cook Road. 6-laning, cutting down on minor signals, and implementing some Michigan lefts would help.

[ilpt4u]

Consider it "fourthed." I don't think they could get rid of many of the lights south of Miller Rd, but it does need to be rebuilt. I constantly drive that road and it's hellish at times. Have you all ever driven Hwy 13 downstate? I have a handful of times. Driving that thing feels like being in a well oiled machine, I think it's so well designed, especially now that it's six lanes all the way to Carbondale.

12 needs to be a bit more like 13. Make 12 a 6-lane arterial between Palatine and Miller Rds, then make it a 55mph expressway north till the light at 120. I wonder if they could get away with converting the lights at Bonner Rd and Old Rand Rd in Wauconda to J-turns? Plus I've been fantasizing about IDOT converting the Old McHenry light to a trumpet sometime in the long-run. And there needs to be an auxiliary lane on the northbound side at the interchange between 59 and 176 like there is on the southbound side. They're resurfacing it now as I type, but once it gets the end of its life cycle all this stuff needs to be done.

As a forum poster who presently lives in Jackson County and earlier in life lived in McHenry County, I'm not sure comparing US 12 to IL 13 is a fair comparison - whole different animal up there in western Lake County and McHenry County versus Jackson and Williamson Counties

IL 13 has its own issues, mainly all the lights thru Carbondale and Marion (helped a little now that IDOT D9 ran Fiber along 13 thru Carbondale to sync the lights - much easier to get thru town now on either all greens or only getting one Red light. Overall, tho, Harrisburg to Murphysboro is an easier drive than US 12 thru Lake and McHenry Counties

IL 13 isn't quite 6 Laned all the way between Marion and Carbondale yet - the section over Crab Orchard Lake between Carterville and Carbondale is the last remaining bit still 4 Lane, and it is a noticeable choke point, especially at peak/rush hour

D9 has experimented with J-Turns/Michigan Lefts/whatever they are called now, as there are a couple on IL 13 on the east side of Marion. IDOT is supposed to be adding a couple more north of Murphysboro along IL 13/127

I specifically omitted discussing the Wolf Creek Rd Overpass/Interchange that was added to IL 13 near Carterville a few years back...I still call it the Bridge to Nowhere. I feel like most Carterville traffic still uses Division St at the stoplight, that is still there. Oh well

[I-39]

Just a reminder that the full FAP 420 can't be built due to Glacial Park and Volo Bog, two federally protected areas. There is no room to reroute around at this point.

I'll say it again the IL-53 extension should have been part of Move Illinois instead of the EOWA, which really isn't needed until a western access point is constructed at O'Hare.

[galacticskyway]

The second ringway needs to be finished, and there needs to be a way to get between 53 and I-94 besides that joke of an arterial on Palatine road or the Lake-Cook strangler.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one that thinks this.

Likewise, I was hoping I wasn't alone there.

I also completely agree with US-12 needing improvements. I can't even count the number of signals that there are from the Wisconsin border to Lake-Cook Road. 6-laning, cutting down on minor signals, and implementing some Michigan lefts would help.

Yeah six lanes is necessary south of Miller Rd. Four lanes is fine north of there as long as they nab those three stoplights before 120. The Ela Rd intersection is one that should just be an overpass over 12 with access to 12 via 22. Now I'm actually not someone who thinks there needs to be a Fox Lake bypass, I think 12 is fine as it is thru Fox Lake for the most part, as long as they eventually build a tollway/freeway alternative connecting the 12 freeway in Wisconsin to the 53 extension.

Just a reminder that the full FAP 420 can't be built due to Glacial Park and Volo Bog, two federally protected areas. There is no room to reroute around at this point.

They still do have the ROW thru North Branch, around Richmond, between the border and the 12/31 intersection tho right? It's not ideal but a Richmond Bypass would be much better than nothing. I also heard talk of 5-laning 12 from Fox Lake to 31, which though not ideal is a decent stopgap solution, especially if accompanied by those improvements on 12. Though I sometimes wonder whether they could get away with "upgrading" Pioneer Rd thru Glacial Park to a divided highway. They probably wouldn't get approval but they could always ask.

I specifically omitted discussing the Wolf Creek Rd Overpass/Interchange that was added to IL 13 near Carterville a few years back...I still call it the Bridge to Nowhere. I feel like most Carterville traffic still uses Division St at the stoplight, that is still there. Oh well

When I saw that my thought was . I remember reading a release that it was meant to give better access between businesses on either side of 13? So why not just build an overpass without an interchange? That's a decision I don't think I personally would have made.

IL 13 isn't quite 6 Laned all the way between Marion and Carbondale yet - the section over Crab Orchard Lake between Carterville and Carbondale is the last remaining bit still 4 Lane, and it is a noticeable choke point, especially at peak/rush hour

Last I was there a month or two ago, they were rebuilding the bridges and roadways to finally widen it to 3 lanes in each direction. By the time the present project is done it'll be three lanes each direction from Carbondale to the Interstate. After that they're due to start improvement on the local roads that connect to 13. It was supposed to be done by 2020 EoY but oh well.
https://idot.illinois.gov/projects/il-13-carb-to-carter

As a forum poster who presently lives in Jackson County and earlier in life lived in McHenry County, I'm not sure comparing US 12 to IL 13 is a fair comparison - whole different animal up there in western Lake County and McHenry County versus Jackson and Williamson Counties
IL 13 has its own issues, mainly all the lights thru Carbondale and Marion (helped a little now that IDOT D9 ran Fiber along 13 thru Carbondale to sync the lights - much easier to get thru town now on either all greens or only getting one Red light. Overall, tho, Harrisburg to Murphysboro is an easier drive than US 12 thru Lake and McHenry Counties

Yeah that's a point well taken. 12 has nothing like the Carbondale one-way couple as an example. 12 was originally built in the '30s as an expressway, and to this day I think it has a couple features between Miller Rd and 120 more reminiscent of Wis-26 than of traditional arterials like 13. And to be sure the stoplights in Carbondale can be killer. That said, I do still think there are lessons to be learned from 13 that can be applied to 12, as well as a few important similarities. They're both regional arterials that move a lot of traffic to and from the freeway network, for one. And ultimately every roadway is going to have its share problems, there are no perfect solutions.

Before I forget about the subject of 13 tho, something that I think a lot of other DOTs could learn from is how IDOT used the 13 project as a catalyst to improve local roads. A lot of other states would have put in an overbuilt expressway that would have just made the traffic pattern more inefficient, then neglected local roads. The arterial approach saves money on the main highway itself, but requires that you use those savings to improve local roads in a holistic way, in order for the arterial to work. To some that would have been a downside to that approach. Not that I have a poster of Omar Osman with lipstick marks on my bedroom wall or anything, I just think IDOT has its moments.

[ilpt4u]

Last I was there a month or two ago, they were rebuilding the bridges and roadways to finally widen it to 3 lanes in each direction. By the time the present project is done it'll be three lanes each direction from Carbondale to the Interstate. After that they're due to start improvement on the local roads that connect to 13. It was supposed to be done by 2020 EoY but oh well.
https://idot.illinois.gov/projects/il-13-carb-to-carter

Phase III (Construction) consists of the actual construction of the project.  We are currently in the design, land acquisition, and construction phase.  Giant City to Reed Station Road is funded and under construction in 2019.  As of 2019, design, land acquisition and construction is unfunded for Reed Station to Shawnee Trail.

D9 and ET Simonds (probably IDOT's top paving contractor in SoIL) have been working on the Giant City to Reed Station Road segment for the last couple of years - Eastbound is done on that segment, Westbound is being worked on immediately at the Reed Station Road interchange area to add the 3rd lane (why this wasn't done while the segment further west into Carbondale was being done...who knows?)

The segment east from Reed Station Road, across Crab Orchard Lake, to Shawnee Trail south of Cambria is unfunded, according to that IDOT project website, and no work has begun to expand the IL 13 bridges over Crab Orchard Lake, or any of that last 4 lane segment

I have a sneaking feeling that last section won't be finalized and built until the Casino at Walker's Bluff is well into construction progress and closer to opening. That segment of IL 13 and some local roads will need some work and expansion if Walker's Bluff is to be a bigger attraction with a Casino Resort, moreso than the Winery & Banquet Center it is now

End of the Southern Illinois aside...back to IL 53 and Western Lake County/McHenry County area up in the Northern and Northwestern Suburban areas

[3467]

12 was the main option to the extension and now is the only. Also as 39 days 420 is not viable.The Tri County report is a good read. They asked participants to go Fitzowl on roads and transit. They drew as many lines as the old 71 map. But months end it was 12 and 53.

[Revive 755]

Just a reminder that the full FAP 420 can't be built due to Glacial Park and Volo Bog, two federally protected areas. There is no room to reroute around at this point.

There's plenty of room to get around those two areas.  The development is much less dense than areas with even more ROW intensive projects such as the US 14 grade separation in Barrington.

EDIT:  A park is not always an absolute barrier either.  Longmeadow Parkway went through at least one.

[I-39]

Just a reminder that the full FAP 420 can't be built due to Glacial Park and Volo Bog, two federally protected areas. There is no room to reroute around at this point.

There's plenty of room to get around those two areas.  The development is much less dense than areas with even more ROW intensive projects such as the US 14 grade separation in Barrington.

EDIT:  A park is not always an absolute barrier either.  Longmeadow Parkway went through at least one.

Where do you go around? There is development in a lot of places surrounding Glacial Park and Volo Bog. If it was that easy, the road would've been built by now. Even in the 1990s when the Richmond leg of the IL-53 extension was being proposed, officials didn't seem to keen on building it.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1995-08-25-9508250243-story.html

Furthermore, when the tollway got the authorization to build the IL-53 extension (including the Richmond leg) in the early 90s, the tollway didn't even request for the Richmond leg to be approved.

https://www.lib.niu.edu/1994/ii940227.html

Unlike the main IL-53 extension, the Richmond leg does indeed face legit environmental complications. All in all, I'm not really sure what could be done there to fix US 12 north to Wisconsin.

[Revive 755]

Where do you go around? There is development in a lot of places surrounding Glacial Park and Volo Bog.

There's development but it's not super dense.  If someone really wanted to get the US 12 freeway into Illinois, they could probably find a way.  Look how much has been demolished around O'Hare for various improvements.  IL 390 wasn't exactly impact free.

If it was that easy, the road would've been built by now.

If "easy to build" was the only criteria for building most roads, many more roads would have been built in the suburbs years ago,along with a few more of the supplemental freeways in Illinois.  Being "easy to build" didn't exactly help the South Surburban corridor get built.

[mgk920]

Would long viaduct bridging, like with the Yahara Marsh bridge on the Madison, WI Beltline, work here?  If it gets to the point of a critical need, an Act of Congress, like with the Stillwater Bridge, is a possibility.

Mike

[hobsini2]

Would long viaduct bridging, like with the Yahara Marsh bridge on the Madison, WI Beltline, work here?  If it gets to the point of a critical need, an Act of Congress, like with the Stillwater Bridge, is a possibility.

Mike

Yes a long viaduct bridge like the Belt Line would work. The problem is the NIMBYs.

[SEWIGuy]

It seems to me that the long bridge over the Yahara Marsh wouldn't stand much of a chance today.  It barely was approved 35 years ago.

[triplemultiplex]

I think they only got the Yahara Viaduct because the alternative was to tear down almost everything along what is now Broadway.

I think it would be funny to build the 53 extension right up to the Long Meadow city line and have it abruptly stop and dump all its traffic onto two lane roads.

As for Yolo Bog, just blast through a few of the clone-homes and that golf course instead.  Problem solved.

[I-39]

Where do you go around? There is development in a lot of places surrounding Glacial Park and Volo Bog.

There's development but it's not super dense.  If someone really wanted to get the US 12 freeway into Illinois, they could probably find a way.  Look how much has been demolished around O'Hare for various improvements.  IL 390 wasn't exactly impact free.

If it was that easy, the road would've been built by now.

If "easy to build" was the only criteria for building most roads, many more roads would have been built in the suburbs years ago,along with a few more of the supplemental freeways in Illinois.  Being "easy to build" didn't exactly help the South Surburban corridor get built.

My point about being easy was that if there was an easy solution to route around, it would've been done by now. The fact is if you look at the landscape in eastern McHenry around the FAP 420 ROW, it is full of conservation areas, lakes and semi dense developments along the Fox Chain O Lakes. Again, if they were skeptical about building the Richmond leg 30 years ago, imagine what opposition there would be now.

There is no excuse as to why the main IL-53 extension from Lake Cook to Grayslake can't be built, but the Richmond leg ship unfortunately sailed long ago. They are just gonna have to find a way to improve US 12.