New from North Texas

[bogdown]

Hello,I have been reading these fourms for awhlile, and I finally have been able to get on

[mightyace]

Welcome from the other T-state!

[bogdown]

Thanks, Obviously, I mesh well into the mid-south region

[Scott5114]

Welcome, from that awful state to the north of you.

[bugo]

Welcome, from that awful state to the north of you.

I'd take Oklahoma over Texas any day.

[Scott5114]

Yeah, me too, if only we could somehow trick ODOT and TxDOT into switching places...

[J N Winkler]

What's wrong with Oklahoma DOT?  What advantage does TxDOT have over it?  To me they are both southern state DOTs.

[Alps]

What's wrong with Oklahoma DOT?  What advantage does TxDOT have over it?  To me they are both southern state DOTs.

If you don't have an opinion on either one, why weigh in at all?

[agentsteel53]

If you don't have an opinion on either one, why weigh in at all?

I think he asked a valid question. 

[Alps]

I've noticed that people tend to either love their state's DOTs above all others, or hate them above all others.  It's something you can't appreciate without living there.

[corco]

Drive down an interstate in Texas. Repeat that process in Oklahoma.

In the small sample size I have, Texas roads are way, way nicer.

[bogdown]

i don't give a damn about TxDot as long as they're building roads

[agentsteel53]

In the small sample size I have, Texas roads are way, way nicer.

and way less interesting.  I'd much rather explore Oklahoma.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

In the small sample size I have, Texas roads are way, way nicer.

and way less interesting.  I'd much rather explore Oklahoma.

Been to both. Outside of Dallas and Houston, Texas and Oklahoma for fairly equal.

[BigMattFromTexas]

Welcome from west-central Texas.

And how are Texas and Oklahoma the same road wise? Ever heard or Indian Nation Turnpike? Piece of bullshit. Most of our roads are smoother than umm... Something real smooth. And why would you pick Oklahoma over Texas? How long have you lived in Texas? I've been in OK a lot.... But yeah... GO TxDOT!! Only good thing bout Oklahoma is y'all don't have the illegal population like we do.........
BigMatt

[J N Winkler]

If you don't have an opinion on either one, why weigh in at all?

I wanted to know Scott's perspective on this issue.  I suspect mine is different because I tend to look less at what a state DOT is doing in terms of construction, or how it is planning it, and more at what is available in terms of electronic plans for construction.  Being Southern tends to imply land uses which are extensive rather than intensive (in Isolierte Stadt terms), thus strong aggregate, asphalt, and cement lobbies, and thus a very early-1960's enthusiasm for road construction, which in turn generates a massive amount of construction plan documentation that tends to drive a push toward electronic format as an efficiency savings.  There is also a geographical remove from 9/11 so if you ask to see construction plans, people don't automatically assume that you want to use them to blow up bridges or other civil engineering works, and you don't have to get into surreal arguments with public officials about the usefulness or otherwise of construction plans for the purpose of planning explosive demolition or other forms of sabotage.

In this country the regions that have pushed hardest for plans on the Web are the Plains states and the South.  In the Plains, TxDOT introduced electronic plans around 2001, Nebraska in 2002, South Dakota in 2005, North Dakota in 2007, and Oklahoma and Kansas (the latter being the big laggard) in 2008.  The Rocky Mountain states are lagging badly--there is no online availability for Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, or Idaho.  Pacific states are still missing Oregon.  The Old Northwest is still missing Wisconsin.  The upper South is still missing Tennessee and the Deep South is still missing Florida, and the mid-Atlantic states are still missing Maryland (with the sole exception of MdTA), but the big black hole is the Northeast--there is still an unbroken lack of E-plans availability between Pennsylvania and Maine with the sole exception of the New Jersey Turnpike Authority.

From my point of view, Oklahoma DOT is somewhat easier to deal with than TxDOT these days because it does not do design-builds.  On the other hand, Oklahoma DOT tends not to do large sign replacements.  Back when TxDOT was clearing out its old button copy in the early 2000's, it was not uncommon to find 50 or more sign design sheets in a single signing contract.  I think Bexar 0915-00-122 (214 sheets) may be the record-holder, but there has also been Harris 0912-00-179 (90 sheets), Harris 0912-00-218 (93 sheets), and even out in the sticks, Potter 0904-00-038 (75 sheets).  Oklahoma DOT has not, AFAIK, ever done this ("few sheets at a time so everyone can bid on it" is their philosophy as it was explained to me), though 20143(04) (37 sheets) is a near exception.

[Greybear]

Welcome from a fellow North Texan.

[Marc]

I can't stand Houston's TxDOT division. They consistently waste money redoing roads that don't need it. Houston's definition of resurfacing is ripping up perfectly good smooth concrete and replacing it with that damn loud grooved crap. I literally have a headache after driving to and from the University of Houston daily because of that. Houston also loves replacing all vintage lighting with 100-foot tall unsightly high mast lights. If you haven't been to Houston in a few years, EVERY SINGLE FREEWAY in the area has been lined with high mast lighting. The only roadways in the area with standard lighting are the tollways and a short section of TX-288 near downtown. I understand a freeway the size of the new Katy Freeway might require high mast to efficiently light the roadway, but most freeways in the area could do with standard lighting. The freeways in San Antonio and DFW do. Basically, I just don't like how you can drive on every freeway in the area and there's no variety in surface or lighting aspects. The only slabbed concrete freeway left in the area is the first few miles of U.S. 290 west of I-610, but that's probably going to be widened in the near future and replaced with a typical cookie-cutter Houston-style freeway.

At the state level, I dislike how TxDOT asphalts over all bridges on rural roads, whether it be freeway or two-lane road.

For Texas, I think San Antonio does things the right way.

Sorry for my rant, but on a brighter note, welcome to the forum.

[jgb191]

Welcome fellow Texan.....I am located almost 600 miles south of you.


As for TXDoT vs ODoT.....Oklahoma doesn't have five-level stack interchanges, no state outside Texas has five-level interchanges.  Oklahoma also doesn't have 14-lane freeways spanning several miles.  Oklahoma doesn't have 80 MPH speed limits, and only a handful of highways with 75 MPH limit.  Oklahoma doesn't aggressively construct or upgrade their roads as much as Texas.  Oklahoma has very few continuous frontage roads.  Texas also has a tendency to build freeways long before the growth takes place.    Just a few of a world of difference between the two states.  But also consider that the size of Texas is nearly quadruple that of our neighbor to the north.

[US71]

As for TXDoT vs ODoT.....Oklahoma doesn't have five-level stack interchanges, no state outside Texas has five-level interchanges.  Oklahoma also doesn't have 14-lane freeways spanning several miles.  Oklahoma doesn't have 80 MPH speed limits, and only a handful of highways with 75 MPH limit.

That's one thing I don't understand about Texas: 2-Lane road 70MPH, then drops to 30 at every wide spot in the road (such as TX 19 north of Canton    )

[agentsteel53]

no state outside Texas has five-level interchanges.

110/105 in Los Angeles is, I believe, five levels. 

[bogdown]

110/105 in Los Angeles is, I believe, five levels. 

i was about to say that one...

[J N Winkler]

Yeah, well, stacks are a big thing in Texas--I think almost half of the world's stacks are in the state.  (My count is not up to date and does not include, e.g., the NTTA stack currently under construction, but Texas has at least 27.)

[bogdown]

and Texas HATES cloverleaves, yet loves "Mixmasters"(see: I-30/I-35 in Dallas, I-45/I-10 in Houston, etc.)

[Scott5114]

Oklahoma tends to not do maintenance fairly well. Many roads in need of complete rebuild are simply repaved with a new layer of asphalt (or worse, chipseal!) when their number is up... and when they do happen to do a rebuild, they tend to do inexcusable things like end a lane 500 feet after an off ramp instead of doing an exit only (see the I-35/I-240 interchange). In general, their signage is pretty godawful (need I post that county line sign again?). I do give them credit for managing to stay ahead of increasing traffic flows in Oklahoma City for the most part (and they actually have gone through with the gutsy Crosstown relocation project–not many DOTs would be willing to build a new freeway downtown in 2010), though their handling of Tulsa leaves much to be desired.