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Indiana business routes gone?

Started by treichard, February 20, 2009, 03:16:01 PM

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Alex

#25
Going back to U.S. 31 Business in South Bend, is the route inconsistently signed along Indiana 933, or signed with only the old shields such as the one pictured in a previous post? Also does the route continue to Niles, Michigan, end at the state line, or follow Cleveland Road west back to U.S. 31 at Brick Road the way Bing Maps suggests?


mobilene

I did a road trip along US 31 and old US 31 in northern Indiana in late 2007.  (http://jimgrey.net/Roads/US31NorthernIndiana/index.htm).  When I did that trip, there were no Bus. US 31 shields north of Cleveland Road; indeed, signs pointed Bus. 31 down Cleveland.

The route south of there is signed as Bus 31 only with old shields -- the same ones that were there when the route was actually the US highway way back when.  (I grew up there and remember very well when the "Business" signs went up above the 31 shields.)
jim grey | Indianapolis, Indiana

hbelkins

Quote from: AARoads on October 20, 2009, 01:27:53 AM
Going back to U.S. 31 Business in South Bend, is the route inconsistently signed along Indiana 933, or signed with only the old shields such as the one pictured in a previous post? Also does the route continue to Niles, Michigan, end at the state line, or follow Cleveland Road west back to U.S. 31 at Brick Road the way Bing Maps suggests?

On my recent trip to Grand Rapids, I spend the first night of my trip in a motel on IN 933 (Dixieway) north of Cleveland. I drove west of Cleveland out to the Meijer and can confirm that Business US 31 is signed on both Dixieway and Cleveland. However, the transition of northbound Business 31 from Dixieway to Cleveland, and southbound Business 31 from Cleveland to Dixieway, is NOT signed.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Avalanchez71

I recall seeing a ton of US 41 Business signs along US 41 in places like Princeton and Kentland in the 90s.  They all seem to be gone now.  I assume they have been decommissioned.  I wonder why SR 63 isn't signed as US 41W or US 41A.

Life in Paradise

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on April 22, 2019, 12:03:33 PM
I recall seeing a ton of US 41 Business signs along US 41 in places like Princeton and Kentland in the 90s.  They all seem to be gone now.  I assume they have been decommissioned.  I wonder why SR 63 isn't signed as US 41W or US 41A.
Growing up near Princeton in the 70s, I used to see those signs all the time, but they have been phased out.  I can't even remember when the Business 41 sign disappeared from the intersection with the current US41 that bypasses Princeton.  It seems like forever. 

Vincennes used to have some for their old route, and I believe that there is actually one or two signs that still exist (faded) in Evansville for Business 41.

US 41

#30
I can confirm that the ones in Vincennes still exist. There was one in Terre Haute just south of the Lafayette Ave / Park Ave intersection, but several years ago they modified the intersection and replaced the old sign with a "US 41" sign (no mention of business) that is still there.

https://goo.gl/maps/3m31341Vrw64HiYY8

https://goo.gl/maps/UnLrRtpU1jHop99f9
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jnewkirk77

Quote from: Life in Paradise on April 22, 2019, 03:08:37 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on April 22, 2019, 12:03:33 PM
I recall seeing a ton of US 41 Business signs along US 41 in places like Princeton and Kentland in the 90s.  They all seem to be gone now.  I assume they have been decommissioned.  I wonder why SR 63 isn't signed as US 41W or US 41A.
Growing up near Princeton in the 70s, I used to see those signs all the time, but they have been phased out.  I can't even remember when the Business 41 sign disappeared from the intersection with the current US41 that bypasses Princeton.  It seems like forever. 

Vincennes used to have some for their old route, and I believe that there is actually one or two signs that still exist (faded) in Evansville for Business 41.

The Evansville signs are still there in a couple places on Fares Avenue, I know south of Morgan Avenue, but no longer are there any at Diamond Avenue (SR 66). There, instead of Fares Avenue, the street signs read "Old Business 41."

I've long thought INDOT was missing the boat by not marking business routes. They could be a useful tool for the cities that were bypassed ... but what do I know?

silverback1065

Quote from: rawmustard on September 15, 2009, 07:33:59 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on September 14, 2009, 10:30:36 PM
They also removed signage from SR 431/Keystone Ave, which is rather odd because they're currently improving the route with a lot of overpasses w/exit ramps.

That's because SR 431 was turned back to the city of Carmel, and it is that entity which is improving the road (roundabout interchanges being the most prominent feature of the upgrades).

SR 431 still exists, it goes from 465 to 96th st. Only because Indy didn't want the road.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: silverback1065 on May 07, 2019, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: rawmustard on September 15, 2009, 07:33:59 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on September 14, 2009, 10:30:36 PM
They also removed signage from SR 431/Keystone Ave, which is rather odd because they're currently improving the route with a lot of overpasses w/exit ramps.

That's because SR 431 was turned back to the city of Carmel, and it is that entity which is improving the road (roundabout interchanges being the most prominent feature of the upgrades).

SR 431 still exists, it goes from 465 to 96th st. Only because Indy didn't want the road.

Are you sure about this?  Everything I can find says that 431 is gone entirely but you're saying the 3/10 of a mile or so between 465 and 96th St is still 431?
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
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Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

silverback1065

Quote from: cabiness42 on May 07, 2019, 02:09:32 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 07, 2019, 01:37:43 PM
Quote from: rawmustard on September 15, 2009, 07:33:59 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on September 14, 2009, 10:30:36 PM
They also removed signage from SR 431/Keystone Ave, which is rather odd because they're currently improving the route with a lot of overpasses w/exit ramps.

That's because SR 431 was turned back to the city of Carmel, and it is that entity which is improving the road (roundabout interchanges being the most prominent feature of the upgrades).

SR 431 still exists, it goes from 465 to 96th st. Only because Indy didn't want the road.

Are you sure about this?  Everything I can find says that 431 is gone entirely but you're saying the 3/10 of a mile or so between 465 and 96th St is still 431?

Maybe it has changed but the last time I checked Indots maps it still shows that tiny piece of 431 still being there.

PurdueBill

The INDOT maps (click Indianapolis) to see has a 2/28/18 version that indeed shows 431.  The Greenfield District map also shows it ending just north of 465.  431 even makes it onto the statewide map with white background!

The Wikipedia article on IN 431 is technically incorrect...even a linked reference mentions that INDOT transferred the roadway from 96th northward to Carmel, and it has always said "citation needed" for the decommissioning of the route in its entirety.  Of course, it was removed from signage, but it does actually exist...

silverback1065

they sign 134, why not 431? i wonder which is shorter?

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: silverback1065 on May 07, 2019, 10:03:06 PM
they sign 134, why not 431? i wonder which is shorter?

134 is one of many "spur" routes that lead to a state facility.  Those are going to be signed regardless of length.  Signing 431 for such a short distance could be confusing.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
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silverback1065


NWI_Irish96

Quote from: silverback1065 on May 09, 2019, 09:52:45 PM
there is a business SR 13 in North Manchester: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0153525,-85.7640884,3a,15.1y,326.35h,88.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scciMBmKBr1uWbKrZQT9rzA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Not signed at the other end however.  Presumably it follows Wayne St. to Main St/114 and then back to 13, but there is no signage on Main St/114 to indicate as much.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: DanTheMan414 on February 20, 2009, 03:50:44 PM
I believe all business routes in Indiana are locally-maintained, so INDOT would not have the say in whether they stay or go.  Likewise, they do not recognize business routes on the state map.  This is up to the discretion of the county or city in question.  BUSINESS US 31 is still signed through the South Bend area, and the exit signs along I-80/90 at the IN 933 interchange are correct to identify the business route.  I'm not sure if BUSINESS US 31 is maintained by the City of South Bend or St. Joseph County, but it is one or the other, and not INDOT.

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but this was on my mind recently.

I'm working towards clinching the entire state highway system, plus any routes listed in the Travel Mapping site. As noted already, Business US Routes in Indiana are not state-owned, and as such not signed nor maintained by INDOT. Here's a rundown of what exists in Travel Mapping, along with my own observations.

BUS US 6 is listed in TM as following Ridge Rd between US 41(Indianapolis Blvd) and US 6/IN 51(Hobart Rd). Neither of these ends have any signs for BUS US 6. The only existence I'm 100% certain of is the signs for the exit to Ridge Rd from I-65. I don't remember seeing any signs along the route itself but can't be 100% certain I didn't miss any. The original routing of US 6 ran west on Ridge, past US 41 to Hohman Ave in Munster, north along Hohman to 165th St in Hammond, and west along 165th St. River Oaks Dr to Torrence Ave, where US 6 rejoins its original alignment.

BUS US 20 is listed in TM as following the alignment of US 20 as it existed through Elkhart, Mishawaka and South Bend immediately before the newest section of the bypass was completed in the early 1990s. When the change was first made, the existing US 20 signs along the route were changed to BUS US 20 signs, but there are large chunks of this road I haven't driven in quite a while so I can't say how many are still there.

BUS US 24 (Peru) is listed in TM as following the original alignment of US 24 from just west of Wabash all the way through Peru and Logansport to the point west of Logansport where US 24 rejoins its original alignment. Outside of Peru and Logansport themselves, the road is in terrible condition and not signed.

BUS US 24 (Wabash) is listed in TM as following the original alignment of US 24 through Wabash. Not signed at either end but signed at its junction with IN 15.

BUS US 31 (Peru) is listed in TM as following the original alignment of US 31 through Peru. Signed at both ends and in Peru.

BUS US 31 (South Bend) is listed in TM as following the original alignment of US 31(Michigan St) up to Cleveland Rd, and then along Cleveland Rd back to US 31. It is signed along both Michigan and Cleveland, but not at their intersection. The original routing of US 31 continued north along Michigan St/Dixie Hwy beyond the state line.

BUS US 41 is listed in TM as following the original alignment of US 41 through Vincennes. Not signed anywhere that I can recall.

BUS US 50 is listed in TM as following the original alignment of US 50 through the SW part of Bedford. Signed along the route but not at each end.

Truck US 52 is listed in TM as a short route in Rushville and is signed as such.

There are also some auxiliary state highways: BUS IN 3, TRUCK IN 9, TRUCK IN 15, TRUCK IN 28, TRUCK IN 44, BUS IN 67 are all listed in TM. There are signs for a BUS IN 13 in North Manchester but it isn't in TM.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
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tdindy88

I'm curious, where are these auxiliary state highways you mentioned. I've heard of the North Manchester business route and I know of the truck highway routes through Rushville and Truck SR 9 around Shelbyville, but where are the others. I've never heard of a truck route for SR 9, 15 and 28 and a Business SR 67.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: tdindy88 on August 31, 2020, 09:56:36 AM
I'm curious, where are these auxiliary state highways you mentioned. I've heard of the North Manchester business route and I know of the truck highway routes through Rushville and Truck SR 9 around Shelbyville, but where are the others. I've never heard of a truck route for SR 9, 15 and 28 and a Business SR 67.

BUS IN 3 and 67 are both listed in Muncie in TM. I haven't driven them yet so can't confirm signage.
TRUCK IN 15 is in Wabash and I have driven it and can confirm signage.
TRUCK IN 28 is in Albany and I have driven it and can confirm signage.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

silverback1065

business 6 is signed at its junction at SR 53

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: silverback1065 on August 31, 2020, 12:56:14 PM
business 6 is signed at its junction at SR 53

As I noted I wasn't 100% sure on that. I've only taken Ridge once between Cline and I-65.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

tdindy88

Quote from: cabiness42 on August 31, 2020, 10:01:21 AM
BUS IN 3 and 67 are both listed in Muncie in TM. I haven't driven them yet so can't confirm signage.
TRUCK IN 15 is in Wabash and I have driven it and can confirm signage.
TRUCK IN 28 is in Albany and I have driven it and can confirm signage.

Crap, I went to Ball State, I should have known better about the business routes there. I have a picture of a Business SR 3 sign out there. I want to say I've seen a Business SR 67 as well but I don't have anything on that.

jnewkirk77

Business 41 is still well-marked on 6th Street in Vincennes, but not at the ends. Coming from the north on 41, it's marked as "To Indiana 61 - 6th St" and from the south end of town, it's Indiana 441.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: tdindy88 on August 31, 2020, 09:31:42 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on August 31, 2020, 10:01:21 AM
BUS IN 3 and 67 are both listed in Muncie in TM. I haven't driven them yet so can't confirm signage.
TRUCK IN 15 is in Wabash and I have driven it and can confirm signage.
TRUCK IN 28 is in Albany and I have driven it and can confirm signage.

Crap, I went to Ball State, I should have known better about the business routes there. I have a picture of a Business SR 3 sign out there. I want to say I've seen a Business SR 67 as well but I don't have anything on that.

I hit part of Muncie in today's drive. The exit from NB IN 67 to IN 3/Bus IN 3 is poorly signed. The exit sign doesn't mention Bus IN 3 at all and mentions IN 3 without specifying SB only, no indication of the need to continue straight on IN 67 to follow IN 3 NB. Once at the end of the exit ramp, there is no indication that you need to turn left for Bus IN 3, but there is a reassurance sign not long after making the turn. Upon reaching 29th St, there is a sign indicating that you need to turn left to follow Bus IN 3. Upon reaching Madison St, there is no signage indicating that you have to turn right onto Madison to follow Bus IN 3, nor is there any signage for Bus IN 67, which also follows Madison. There was also no signage downtown for either Bus IN 3 or Bus IN 67. Didn't go north of downtown on this trip but hope to hit the rest of both business routes next trip out.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Avalanchez71

Quote from: jnewkirk77 on August 31, 2020, 11:29:22 PM
Business 41 is still well-marked on 6th Street in Vincennes, but not at the ends. Coming from the north on 41, it's marked as "To Indiana 61 - 6th St" and from the south end of town, it's Indiana 441.

Is the one sign still in Terre Haute?  How about US 41 Business in Evansville one Fares Ave?  I don't think any are left in Princeton and the Kentland one is long gone.

Life in Paradise

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 09, 2022, 01:52:02 AM
Quote from: jnewkirk77 on August 31, 2020, 11:29:22 PM
Business 41 is still well-marked on 6th Street in Vincennes, but not at the ends. Coming from the north on 41, it's marked as "To Indiana 61 - 6th St" and from the south end of town, it's Indiana 441.

Is the one sign still in Terre Haute?  How about US 41 Business in Evansville one Fares Ave?  I don't think any are left in Princeton and the Kentland one is long gone.
I'll check the next time I get in Evansville on Fares, but I believe it was still there as of last year.



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