Michigan Notes

[Flint1979]

^ I would personally also prefer the interstate routing over arterial roads for the convenience of cruising at ~80 mph the whole way, but I do question if it would add an hour... especially considering mileage wise, the arterial routes in question are shorter distance.

It doesn't even come close to adding an hour. Taking I-96 and I-69 actually adds two minutes going from downtown Grand Rapids to my driveway over taking US-131 to M-46. You're moving 75 on US-131 anyway for 35 miles then heading east on M-46. I-96 to I-69 to I-75 isn't even a suggestion on Google Maps. And you are adding 21 miles. It's quicker to take US-131 to M-46.

[Flint1979]

Well from my driveway in Saginaw Township to downtown Grand Rapids the quickest way is to take M-46 to US-131 it's also shorter by 22 miles to take this route than to take M-13 to I-69. Taking I-75 to I-69 to go toward Lansing doesn't make any sense either. It is a route that you COULD use but it's longer and is going to take a longer period of time to travel.

Look at these routings from my driveway to downtown Grand Rapids.

Taking I-75 to I-69 to I-96: 150 miles, 2 hours 18 minutes.
Taking M-46 to US-131: 114 miles, 2 hours 9 minutes.
Taking Center than Swan Creek Road to M-52 to M-57 to US-131: 114 miles, 2 hours 14 minutes.
Taking M-13 to I-69 to I-96: 136 miles, 2 hours 13 minutes.

So you see the times are about the same but you are saving miles and gas mileage by taking the shorter route. And you can go 60 mph on M-46, M-52 and M-57. I've never had a problem with slow moving traffic, the traffic volumes on M-46 aren't generally that high in the rural areas that it's going to be much of a factor. M-46 honestly has it's highest traffic volumes near it's western terminus and the lowest traffic volumes near it's eastern terminus and the traffic volumes between Saginaw and US-131 are below 8,000 VPD. M-57's are even lower until you get to Greenville.

I don't know where you're getting those times from, but I don't believe them.  It takes me about an hour longer taking the 2-lane highways.  And I don't think there's any savings gas mileage wise either.  Slower speed limits do not necessarily mean higher gas mileage when there are a lot of stops and starts and slow downs involved as opposed to just putting it in cruise on the freeways.  Now, I will say that road construction plays a factor, and right now taking I-96 to I-69 to Flint is a real headache with the EB I-96 to ramp to EB I-69 being closed, with no good detour routes available!  I've been taking 2 lane roads up to Mount Pleasant, but I avoid M-46 for all but about 10 miles.  And I'll go back to using I-196 to US-127 as soon as the construction is complete.

Ok fine don't believe them. I'm getting those times from actually driving these routes. How does it take you an hour longer to take M-46 to US-131 vs. M-13 to I-69 to I-96? I don't believe that time at all. There isn't any savings gas mileage wise? How do you figure that? You are driving your car at 70-80 mph for far longer than you are driving your car at 55-60 mph if you take the Interstate's. Slower speed limits mean you are going to get better gas mileage than driving on the highway. I drive a Ford Fusion Hybrid I know my car pretty good. There aren't a lot of stops and starts and slow downs taking M-46 just because it goes through some small towns along the way then hop down M-66 and take Lake Montcalm Road which becomes Lincoln Road in Gratiot County and Swan Creek Road in Saginaw County and the only town you'll go through is Alma. If the route is shorter but only a few minutes longer I'm taking that route.

[Flint1979]

I honestly have no idea where you are coming from and going to but the routings I have taken haven't taken an hour more than going down and taking the Interstate's. Like I've been saying there it's possible to bypass the small towns along M-46 as well.

[Terry Shea]

I honestly have no idea where you are coming from and going to but the routings I have taken haven't taken an hour more than going down and taking the Interstate's. Like I've been saying there it's possible to bypass the small towns along M-46 as well.

I can do 75-85 on the freeways w/o getting pulled over.  I can very rarely get over 55 on the 2-lane highways, and only for short periods of time.  With the towns, slow traffic, lack of passing areas and stops for other roads out in the middle of nowhere, I'd be lucky to average 45 MPH on the 2-lane highways.  We're talking about a 30-40 MPH difference, and that easily adds up to an hour difference covering such a distance.

[Flint1979]

I honestly have no idea where you are coming from and going to but the routings I have taken haven't taken an hour more than going down and taking the Interstate's. Like I've been saying there it's possible to bypass the small towns along M-46 as well.

I can do 75-85 on the freeways w/o getting pilled over.  I can very rarely get over 55 on the 2-lane highways, and only for short periods of time.  With the towns, slow traffic, lack of passing areas and stops for other roads out in the middle of nowhere, I'd be lucky to average 45 MPH on the 2-lane highways.  We're talking about a 30-40 MPH difference, and that easily adds up to an hour difference covering such a distance.

From Saginaw City Hall (I'm using this as the reference point in Saginaw) to the northern junction of M-46 and US-131 is 79.2 miles and Google Maps estimates that it will take 1 hour and 37 minutes to drive this. 79 miles from Saginaw City Hall using M-13 to I-69 to I-96 is going to put you at exit 86 on I-96 at 1 hour 16 minutes which is only a 21 minute savings. The distance the rest of the way to downtown Grand Rapids from those two points first from exit 86 on I-96 to downtown GR is 52.8 miles and will take 47 minutes based on Google Maps at this hour of the night it's 11:22pm right now. From M-46 and US-131's northern junction it's 35.9 miles and takes 32 minutes.

Right now btw the suggested route to take from Saginaw to GR is M-13 to Verne to Bueche to Fergus (three county roads in Saginaw County) to M-52 south to M-57 west to US-131 south. It gives you a different route all the time, there are several different ways to get between Saginaw and Grand Rapids. You aren't wrong for sticking with the freeways but I'm just saying you'll cut off miles if you can sacrifice a few minutes. It's generally within 5-7 minutes more to take M-46 to US-131 but over 20 miles shorter.

[Terry Shea]

I honestly have no idea where you are coming from and going to but the routings I have taken haven't taken an hour more than going down and taking the Interstate's. Like I've been saying there it's possible to bypass the small towns along M-46 as well.

I can do 75-85 on the freeways w/o getting pilled over.  I can very rarely get over 55 on the 2-lane highways, and only for short periods of time.  With the towns, slow traffic, lack of passing areas and stops for other roads out in the middle of nowhere, I'd be lucky to average 45 MPH on the 2-lane highways.  We're talking about a 30-40 MPH difference, and that easily adds up to an hour difference covering such a distance.

From Saginaw City Hall (I'm using this as the reference point in Saginaw) to the northern junction of M-46 and US-131 is 79.2 miles and Google Maps estimates that it will take 1 hour and 37 minutes to drive this. 79 miles from Saginaw City Hall using M-13 to I-69 to I-96 is going to put you at exit 86 on I-96 at 1 hour 16 minutes which is only a 21 minute savings. The distance the rest of the way to downtown Grand Rapids from those two points first from exit 86 on I-96 to downtown GR is 52.8 miles and will take 47 minutes based on Google Maps at this hour of the night it's 11:22pm right now. From M-46 and US-131's northern junction it's 35.9 miles and takes 32 minutes.

Right now btw the suggested route to take from Saginaw to GR is M-13 to Verne to Bueche to Fergus (three county roads in Saginaw County) to M-52 south to M-57 west to US-131 south. It gives you a different route all the time, there are several different ways to get between Saginaw and Grand Rapids. You aren't wrong for sticking with the freeways but I'm just saying you'll cut off miles if you can sacrifice a few minutes. It's generally within 5-7 minutes more to take M-46 to US-131 but over 20 miles shorter.

Ok, there may be certain times of day when it isn't a problem, but for the most part, US-131 in GR and north of town to about 14 or 17 Mile Road is a parking lot.  I've probably done that stretch in 32 minutes or less before, but if I have to venture to the north, probably more times than not I have to get off the freeway or not enter it at all and use Pine Island Dr. and Algoma Rd. because traffic is at a standstill or close to it.  I just don't see any reason to go that way.

[Flint1979]

I honestly have no idea where you are coming from and going to but the routings I have taken haven't taken an hour more than going down and taking the Interstate's. Like I've been saying there it's possible to bypass the small towns along M-46 as well.

I can do 75-85 on the freeways w/o getting pilled over.  I can very rarely get over 55 on the 2-lane highways, and only for short periods of time.  With the towns, slow traffic, lack of passing areas and stops for other roads out in the middle of nowhere, I'd be lucky to average 45 MPH on the 2-lane highways.  We're talking about a 30-40 MPH difference, and that easily adds up to an hour difference covering such a distance.

From Saginaw City Hall (I'm using this as the reference point in Saginaw) to the northern junction of M-46 and US-131 is 79.2 miles and Google Maps estimates that it will take 1 hour and 37 minutes to drive this. 79 miles from Saginaw City Hall using M-13 to I-69 to I-96 is going to put you at exit 86 on I-96 at 1 hour 16 minutes which is only a 21 minute savings. The distance the rest of the way to downtown Grand Rapids from those two points first from exit 86 on I-96 to downtown GR is 52.8 miles and will take 47 minutes based on Google Maps at this hour of the night it's 11:22pm right now. From M-46 and US-131's northern junction it's 35.9 miles and takes 32 minutes.

Right now btw the suggested route to take from Saginaw to GR is M-13 to Verne to Bueche to Fergus (three county roads in Saginaw County) to M-52 south to M-57 west to US-131 south. It gives you a different route all the time, there are several different ways to get between Saginaw and Grand Rapids. You aren't wrong for sticking with the freeways but I'm just saying you'll cut off miles if you can sacrifice a few minutes. It's generally within 5-7 minutes more to take M-46 to US-131 but over 20 miles shorter.

Ok, there may be certain times of day when it isn't a problem, but for the most part, US-131 in GR and north of town to about 14 or 17 Mile Road is a parking lot.  I've probably done that stretch in 32 minutes or less before, but if I have to venture to the north, probably more times than not I have to get off the freeway or not enter it at all and use Pine Island Dr. and Algoma Rd. because traffic is at a standstill or close to it.  I just don't see any reason to go that way.

Yeah US-131 is a mess north of town no doubt. I was leaving GR at 5:00pm and was at 28th and Kalamazoo at the Meijer store there. It kept telling me to go to US-131 north and take that to M-46 east. I was like screw that I'll stick with M-44 to M-91 to M-57 to M-52. With the shortcut in Greenville (Fairplains Street). Then the only two towns I had to go through after that were Carson City and St. Charles as M-57 bypasses Sheridan, Middleton and Perrinton (three super small towns). M-57 is actually a better route than M-46 is considering there is less traffic on M-57 except for west of Greenville. The only thing is M-57 doesn't go across the state like M-46 does, M-57 ends at US-131 on the west end and M-15 on the east end.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

Just came back from the beautiful UP this week.

I did manage to find the Lake City Bypass going up north, and I thought that was an excellent decision. Speed limit stays at 55 at all points, and the path is not as beaten as if I stayed on M-55/66 through downtown Lake City. I also found a viable path going back, going from Gaylord to Alba and picking up US 131 much earlier than usual. That may be my new favorite path, since there's a nice stretch of two-lane roadway supported with passing zones along the way.

Lots of progress with the I-94/196/US 31 project. Among some notes I discovered...

When going west on I-94, older signage for I-196/US 31 northbound omitted Grand Rapids in favor of South Haven, with Holland as the other control city (likely because of long range westbound drivers encountering US 131 first, which is the shorter route to Grand Rapids). Not anymore; Grand Rapids and Holland are the controls for I-196/US 31 northbound for both directions of I-94.

APL signage is in place for the I-94 east to I-196/US 31 ramp, but for obvious reasons, the arrows are covered up. The loop ramp for I-94 west to US 31 south is paved, ready for fall opening. Some BGS's for the new interchange are up, covered with "CLOSED"  signage, but I could see that US 31 south has South Bend as its control city, with Niles oddly omitted.

I'm gonna find a reason to be up there later this fall to see the final product.

[Flint1979]

The road you found going from Gaylord to Alba I'm just wondering if it's CR-42. Because I've used that road coming off NB 131 going toward Gaylord before.

[ChimpOnTheWheel]

The road you found going from Gaylord to Alba I'm just wondering if it's CR-42. Because I've used that road coming off NB 131 going toward Gaylord before.

Probably was CR-42, I don't see any other route between Alba and Gaylord (other than perhaps M-32 itself, which would be longer and out of the way).

[afguy]

MDOT is planning to rebuild the Grand River interchange at I-96 as a DDI beginning in 2025.

MDOT project managers recently met with Brighton City Council to discuss coming improvements to the I-96/Grand River interchange, which commonly backs up during peak hours. After performing a bridge and feasibility study and considering 7 different intersection alternatives, MDOT will be constructing a Diverging Diamond Interchange (DDI), anticipated to begin in 2025. DDI's are a fairly new concept and have proven to be effective in the small number of communities they have been built in nationally. When completed, drivers going through the underpass will find themselves crossing over to other side of the road they would normally be on. In this way, the DDI makes for better traffic flow, simpler left turns, reduced stop times, and results in 53% fewer accidents.

https://www.whmi.com/news/article/brighton-mdot-diverging-diamond-ddi

[pianocello]

MDOT is planning to rebuild the Grand River interchange at I-96 as a DDI beginning in 2025.

MDOT project managers recently met with Brighton City Council to discuss coming improvements to the I-96/Grand River interchange, which commonly backs up during peak hours. After performing a bridge and feasibility study and considering 7 different intersection alternatives, MDOT will be constructing a Diverging Diamond Interchange (DDI), anticipated to begin in 2025. DDI's are a fairly new concept and have proven to be effective in the small number of communities they have been built in nationally. When completed, drivers going through the underpass will find themselves crossing over to other side of the road they would normally be on. In this way, the DDI makes for better traffic flow, simpler left turns, reduced stop times, and results in 53% fewer accidents.

https://www.whmi.com/news/article/brighton-mdot-diverging-diamond-ddi

Should be noted that this is the one in Brighton (there are several Grand River/I-96 interchanges across the state). I was confused for a bit since I was originally thinking of Exit 90 northwest of Lansing.

[Flint1979]

When I think of Grand River meeting I-96 I think of the two interchanges in Detroit.

[Terry Shea]

When I think of Grand River meeting I-96 I think of the two interchanges in Detroit.

I've never understood why the section between Lansing and Detroit is called Grand River Ave, since it goes nowhere near The Grand River.

[Flint1979]

When I think of Grand River meeting I-96 I think of the two interchanges in Detroit.

I've never understood why the section between Lansing and Detroit is called Grand River Ave, since it goes nowhere near The Grand River.

I think it was just the name given to the entire trail from when they were Indian footpaths and when the street layout of Detroit was made in 1805 it was part of that trail so the name stuck is my best guess at it. I read somewhere where they gave it that name because it paralleled at least half of the river's length. The Grand River goes south at Lansing toward Jackson though so it does seem odd but it's all one trail I know that much.

[Ryctor2018]

When I think of Grand River meeting I-96 I think of the two interchanges in Detroit.

I've never understood why the section between Lansing and Detroit is called Grand River Ave, since it goes nowhere near The Grand River.

I think it was just the name given to the entire trail from when they were Indian footpaths and when the street layout of Detroit was made in 1805 it was part of that trail so the name stuck is my best guess at it. I read somewhere where they gave it that name because it paralleled at least half of the river's length. The Grand River goes south at Lansing toward Jackson though so it does seem odd but it's all one trail I know that much.

This was also back in the day when road names were just as popular as numbers are today. Many roads across the state, indeed many states, have a road name that spans 100 miles or more with the same name. Grand River, Michigan Gratiot, Dixie highway, Van Dyke are just some off the top of my head with a road name spanning many cities, counties and miles.

[Terry Shea]

When I think of Grand River meeting I-96 I think of the two interchanges in Detroit.

I've never understood why the section between Lansing and Detroit is called Grand River Ave, since it goes nowhere near The Grand River.

I think it was just the name given to the entire trail from when they were Indian footpaths and when the street layout of Detroit was made in 1805 it was part of that trail so the name stuck is my best guess at it. I read somewhere where they gave it that name because it paralleled at least half of the river's length. The Grand River goes south at Lansing toward Jackson though so it does seem odd but it's all one trail I know that much.

But when you think about it, it really doesn't run along the river at all.  It crosses the river in Portland and in Lansing, but other than that the road and the river are separated by several miles for almost the entire stretch.  I never understood why exit 113  on I-69 is Grand River Rd. either.

[Flint1979]

When I think of Grand River meeting I-96 I think of the two interchanges in Detroit.

I've never understood why the section between Lansing and Detroit is called Grand River Ave, since it goes nowhere near The Grand River.

I think it was just the name given to the entire trail from when they were Indian footpaths and when the street layout of Detroit was made in 1805 it was part of that trail so the name stuck is my best guess at it. I read somewhere where they gave it that name because it paralleled at least half of the river's length. The Grand River goes south at Lansing toward Jackson though so it does seem odd but it's all one trail I know that much.

But when you think about it, it really doesn't run along the river at all.  It crosses the river in Portland and in Lansing, but other than that the road and the river are separated by several miles for almost the entire stretch.  I never understood why exit 113  on I-69 is Grand River Rd. either.

Not too closely it doesn't you're right. It actually crosses it twice in Lansing and once in Portland but other than that nope it doesn't cross it again. So it's got to be just what the trail got named and that's the name they went with. As for the one in Shiawassee County I think that was again part of a trail this time called the Pontiac and Grand River trail. That ends up as Round Lake Road in Clinton County and Cutler Road in Ionia County and intersects Grand River in Portland.

[GaryV]

Grand River Ave follows the native trading trail that went from the Detroit area to the settlements in the Grand River Valley. Once white settlement started, the trail was given the Grand River name, and the name carried over to the road. It was never meant to be a road that followed a river bank.

[Terry Shea]

Grand River Ave follows the native trading trail that went from the Detroit area to the settlements in the Grand River Valley. Once white settlement started, the trail was given the Grand River name, and the name carried over to the road. It was never meant to be a road that followed a river bank.

You'd think after all these years the name would have been changed to something more applicable.

[Flint1979]

Grand River Ave follows the native trading trail that went from the Detroit area to the settlements in the Grand River Valley. Once white settlement started, the trail was given the Grand River name, and the name carried over to the road. It was never meant to be a road that followed a river bank.

This is the routing that it follows. It comes in from the NE and turns on M-89, goes up to US-131 and goes south back to where it originally connected to go west toward South Haven. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.3907303,-85.455287/42.2958593,-85.6665463/@42.3637659,-85.7477421,11z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!5i1

Kalamazoo for some reason wanted to eliminate the state highway from going through downtown due to confusing one way streets that they made into two way streets. M-343 took over a part of the route but it ends at Riverview Drive about a half mile inside Kalamazoo city limits so it doesn't go through the city or even make it downtown.

[Flint1979]

Grand River Ave follows the native trading trail that went from the Detroit area to the settlements in the Grand River Valley. Once white settlement started, the trail was given the Grand River name, and the name carried over to the road. It was never meant to be a road that followed a river bank.

You'd think after all these years the name would have been changed to something more applicable.

I really don't see any reason to change the name since it's already well established as GR Avenue and changing the name would just cause confusion.

[Terry Shea]

Grand River Ave follows the native trading trail that went from the Detroit area to the settlements in the Grand River Valley. Once white settlement started, the trail was given the Grand River name, and the name carried over to the road. It was never meant to be a road that followed a river bank.

This is the routing that it follows. It comes in from the NE and turns on M-89, goes up to US-131 and goes south back to where it originally connected to go west toward South Haven. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.3907303,-85.455287/42.2958593,-85.6665463/@42.3637659,-85.7477421,11z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!5i1

Kalamazoo for some reason wanted to eliminate the state highway from going through downtown due to confusing one way streets that they made into two way streets. M-343 took over a part of the route but it ends at Riverview Drive about a half mile inside Kalamazoo city limits so it doesn't go through the city or even make it downtown.

I think you answered the wrong post in the wrong forum.

[Flint1979]

Grand River Ave follows the native trading trail that went from the Detroit area to the settlements in the Grand River Valley. Once white settlement started, the trail was given the Grand River name, and the name carried over to the road. It was never meant to be a road that followed a river bank.

This is the routing that it follows. It comes in from the NE and turns on M-89, goes up to US-131 and goes south back to where it originally connected to go west toward South Haven. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.3907303,-85.455287/42.2958593,-85.6665463/@42.3637659,-85.7477421,11z/data=!4m3!4m2!3e0!5i1

Kalamazoo for some reason wanted to eliminate the state highway from going through downtown due to confusing one way streets that they made into two way streets. M-343 took over a part of the route but it ends at Riverview Drive about a half mile inside Kalamazoo city limits so it doesn't go through the city or even make it downtown.

I think you answered the wrong post in the wrong forum.

Yeah I did GaryV noticed it yesterday and messaged me asking me about it too. I was wondering where that post that I made went and then I noticed I posted in the wrong thread.

[Flint1979]

That post that you quoted was my answer to your question about what happens to M-43 on both sides of Kalamazoo. Since I'm on this post though I'd say M-43 should be two highways, one from M-52 to M-89 and then one from US-131 to South Haven.