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I-66 HO/T Lanes

Started by froggie, January 23, 2015, 02:46:25 PM

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1995hoo

I asked a colleague who commutes from Front Royal, but he was in by 5:30 and did not see the toll rates. Meanwhile, half an hour ago....

http://twitter.com/martindicaro/status/937660540637319168
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


1995hoo

Just got a WTOP breaking news e-mail saying tolls topped $26.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

1995hoo

#252
http://twitter.com/_ellenbryan/status/937680851923558400

Edited: This post originally had a tweet from a local reporter showing a photo of the toll being $34.50.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

Still cheaper than the old HOV violation fine of $300!

Beltway

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 04, 2017, 08:58:15 AM
http://twitter.com/_ellenbryan/status/937680851923558400
Edited: This post originally had a tweet from a local reporter showing a photo of the toll being $34.50.

It would be helpful if they provided a profile of all tolls paid by hour.  Those very high tolls could be short "bursts" in timespan designed to keep vehicles from entering when congestion is starting, and the average toll could be much lower.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

1995hoo

I would hesitate to consider today's numbers to be typical anyway because I'm sure there were plenty of people who had no idea what they were doing out there.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Beltway on December 04, 2017, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 04, 2017, 08:58:15 AM
http://twitter.com/_ellenbryan/status/937680851923558400
Edited: This post originally had a tweet from a local reporter showing a photo of the toll being $34.50.

It would be helpful if they provided a profile of all tolls paid by hour.  Those very high tolls could be short "bursts" in timespan designed to keep vehicles from entering when congestion is starting, and the average toll could be much lower.

Yep.  That info would probably have to come from the source though, unless someone sits around nearby to monitor the pricing.

oscar

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 04, 2017, 11:32:43 AM
I would hesitate to consider today's numbers to be typical anyway because I'm sure there were plenty of people who had no idea what they were doing out there.

Instead, there will be plenty of people scared away from even trying I-66 inside the Beltway, which should reduce traffic and prices for other drivers. Then once prices drop to less scary levels, traffic volumes, rates, and complaints will creep back up.

Give it a few days (or weeks) for traffic volumes and toll rates to stabilize.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

1995hoo

I'd say give it a month. Traffic patterns will change anyway after next week due to lower volumes around Christmas and New Year's.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Mapmikey

From I-66 west entry to DC this morning:

5:30 - $8.50
6:00 - $9.75
6:30 - $9.25
7:00 - $13.50
7:30 - $23.50
7:45 - $28.50
8:00 - $18.00
8:15 - $21.00
8:30 - $30.00
8:45 - $30.00
9:00 - $16.50
9:29 - $7.75

Beltway

Quote from: Mapmikey on December 04, 2017, 12:41:13 PM
From I-66 west entry to DC this morning:
5:30 - $8.50
6:00 - $9.75
6:30 - $9.25
7:00 - $13.50
7:30 - $23.50
7:45 - $28.50
8:00 - $18.00
8:15 - $21.00
8:30 - $30.00
8:45 - $30.00
9:00 - $16.50
9:29 - $7.75

When I wrote, "a profile of all tolls paid by hour", I meant averaging of all tolls paid.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

1995hoo

It'd be a pain to figure this out, but what I think would be more interesting is what the tolls were for each part of the road–that is, by how much did various portions increase over others? The Post said there were no reported backups. There always used to be a big backup from Exit 67 to Exit 69, then a slowdown (less of a backup) until after the Sycamore Street onramp, and after that it picked up speed. It'd be interesting to know what portion of the overall tolls was attributable to what part of the road because it would indicate where congestion management was most needed.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

1995hoo

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Mergingtraffic

This is what I don't get...yeah the toll is high but what did all these people do BEFORE today? Before today the road was only open to HOV users. People are complaining but it's not like a free road was turned into a toll road costing $34. HOV is still free, the other non I-66 routes are still the same. The only thing different is the option to drive I-66 and pay (a big) toll. I really don't see a big issue. Nothing free was taken away.
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/

Jmiles32

Quote from: oscar on December 03, 2017, 12:16:22 PM
QuoteAlso, will the I-66 Spot 3 improvements still happen? The project is on Vdot's website but I haven't heard anything about in a while. It would construct an auxiliary lane connecting the on-ramp from Route 29 (Lee Highway) Exit 72 to the off-ramp to North Glebe Road (Route 120) on westbound I-66.

Spot Improvements 1 and 2 have been done, and are working well. #3, which you mention, seems to have gotten a little work lately, but not enough to put it on track to completion unless the toll project would provide funding. It's always been the least-expensive but also least helpful spot improvement, though it's cheap enough that it would be a quick fix for one of the bottlenecks for westbound traffic.

It was also the least controversial of the spot improvements. I heard some whining from a bicyclist who uses the parallel bike trail, who didn't realize that I-66 wouldn't be widened in the part right next to the trail, and the part that would be widened is separated from the bike trail by the concrete pillars for a high school parking lot above the freeway.
Interesting. I guess VDOT kinda put the project on the backburner while they were pre-occupied with I-66 HOT lanes conversion. Now that that's done and with the I-66 eastbound widening on the horizon, perhaps now VDOT will be able to refocus on the short, but helpful final spot improvement on I-66 westbound between US-29(EXit 72) and VA-120(Exit 71) which btw can now be easily funded($34 tolls).
Aspiring Transportation Planner at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies!

1995hoo

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on December 04, 2017, 04:52:44 PM
This is what I don't get...yeah the toll is high but what did all these people do BEFORE today? Before today the road was only open to HOV users. People are complaining but it's not like a free road was turned into a toll road costing $34. HOV is still free, the other non I-66 routes are still the same. The only thing different is the option to drive I-66 and pay (a big) toll. I really don't see a big issue. Nothing free was taken away.

The only people I think might have a bit of a beef are those who had the clean fuel plate exemption. But you know, they rode that gravy train for 12+ years and had a pretty good deal while it lasted, and it's not like their cars are suddenly useless!

People here just like to whine.

BTW, the $34.50 toll was only in effect for about six minutes.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

oscar

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 04, 2017, 07:55:30 PM
The only people I think might have a bit of a beef are those who had the clean fuel plate exemption. But you know, they rode that gravy train for 12+ years and had a pretty good deal while it lasted, and it's not like their cars are suddenly useless!

Don't forget about travelers to and from Dulles airport (IAD), who had an HOV exemption but now must have an E-ZPass and pay toll if they travel on I-66 east of VA 267 during rush hours. I don't often drive to and from that airport (preferring the closer Reagan National), but when I do it's often in rush hours, especially after returning from California or Hawaii on red-eyes.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

vdeane

What happened to all the former HOV users?  From what I understand, prior to becoming HOT lanes, I-66 was getting congested, and increasing to HOV-3 would soon be necessary.  Where did all those people go?  Were there that many clean fuel plates, people going to/from Dulles, and violators?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

1995hoo

Quote from: vdeane on December 04, 2017, 08:42:39 PM
What happened to all the former HOV users?  From what I understand, prior to becoming HOT lanes, I-66 was getting congested, and increasing to HOV-3 would soon be necessary.  Where did all those people go?  Were there that many clean fuel plates, people going to/from Dulles, and violators?

Your point is a major reason why I find so much of today's whining to be kind of confusing. Disingenuous, too. Nobody's being "forced"  to pay anything, Twitter objectors notwithstanding. If you couldn't legally use I-66 before, now you can, but if you don't want to pay the toll, you just use the same route you used before.

Of course, plenty of people have complained about HOV for the past 35 years too! (I-66 between the Beltway and Rosslyn opened a few days before Christmas in 1982. Back then the restriction was HOV-4.) I've seen plenty of arguments along the lines of, "My taxes paid for this road, so who are you to tell me I can't use it?"  Heh. I'd like to be in court the day a "sovereign citizen"  gets busted for toll violations.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

Let's be real - a lot of people were HOV violators and are now mad that their bill is (literally) due. Find a slug lot and do what all of the 95/395 commuters have been doing for years.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 04, 2017, 08:56:09 PM
Quote from: vdeane on December 04, 2017, 08:42:39 PM
What happened to all the former HOV users?  From what I understand, prior to becoming HOT lanes, I-66 was getting congested, and increasing to HOV-3 would soon be necessary.  Where did all those people go?  Were there that many clean fuel plates, people going to/from Dulles, and violators?

Your point is a major reason why I find so much of today's whining to be kind of confusing. Disingenuous, too. Nobody's being "forced"  to pay anything, Twitter objectors notwithstanding. If you couldn't legally use I-66 before, now you can, but if you don't want to pay the toll, you just use the same route you used before.

Of course, plenty of people have complained about HOV for the past 35 years too! (I-66 between the Beltway and Rosslyn opened a few days before Christmas in 1982. Back then the restriction was HOV-4.) I've seen plenty of arguments along the lines of, "My taxes paid for this road, so who are you to tell me I can't use it?"  Heh. I'd like to be in court the day a "sovereign citizen"  gets busted for toll violations.

I'm still waiting for people to scream " My taxes paid for that prison. Why can't I use it?"

cpzilliacus

Washington Post: I-66 express lanes debut with $34.50 toll, among the highest in U.S.

QuoteThe Interstate 66 toll lanes opened Monday in Washington's Northern Virginia suburbs with prices so steep they could be among the highest drivers have paid for the privilege of traveling on a state-owned highway in the United States.

QuoteTolls in the high-occupancy toll lanes hit $34.50 – or close to $3.50 a mile – to drive the 10-mile stretch from the Beltway to Washington during the height of the morning commute.

QuoteThe lanes, on one of the region's most congested highways, were billed as a way to help the state better manage traffic, foster carpooling and public transit use, and give commuters more options.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on December 04, 2017, 10:51:47 PM
Let's be real - a lot of people were HOV violators and are now mad that their bill is (literally) due. Find a slug lot and do what all of the 95/395 commuters have been doing for years.

Yes, there's some of that, though the HOV restrictions were enforced (at places) in the  corridor before.  But the Dulles exemption made enforcement difficult east of the Dulles Connector, and then  there were the scores of hybrid vehicles with "CF" tags that used the corridor every day without regard to the HOV-2 requirement.

Slug lines may well grow up here, but probably not until after the HOV/Toll project outside the Beltway gets running.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

#273
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 05, 2017, 06:38:35 AM
Quote from: Washington comPostThe Interstate 66 toll lanes opened Monday in Washington's Northern Virginia suburbs with prices so steep they could be among the highest drivers have paid for the privilege of traveling on a state-owned highway in the United States.

Tolls in the high-occupancy toll lanes hit $34.50 – or close to $3.50 a mile – to drive the 10-mile stretch from the Beltway to Washington during the height of the morning commute.

The same junk 'news' that has been outputted from other outlets.  Again, what was the overall toll profile?  Did it momentarily spike to $34.50 when congestion needed to be alleviated by the need to discourage entry for 10 minutes or so?  Were the average tolls much lower?
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Mapmikey

#274
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 04, 2017, 02:49:57 PM
It'd be a pain to figure this out, but what I think would be more interesting is what the tolls were for each part of the road–that is, by how much did various portions increase over others? The Post said there were no reported backups. There always used to be a big backup from Exit 67 to Exit 69, then a slowdown (less of a backup) until after the Sycamore Street onramp, and after that it picked up speed. It'd be interesting to know what portion of the overall tolls was attributable to what part of the road because it would indicate where congestion management was most needed.

Right now (7:40), with sigalert showing the avg speed east of the beltway to be at least 35 everywhere, the tolls if entering at the west end:

exit at:
VA 7 - $1.25
Westmoreland St - $9.75
Washington Blvd - $9.75
Fairfax Dr - $23.75
Lee Hwy and all further exits east - $30.00

Looks like substantial volume comes from VA 267 and Falls Church

Traffic does not have to be at any sort of standstill to drive up the tolls.  It might be appropriate to recalibrate their algorithm if there are no backups and the toll is $30 for 10 miles.  At the height of afternoon rush, the outer loop's 14 miles, which does have brief slowdowns occasionally, hovers in the $18-22 range.




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