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OK152

Started by rte66man, June 28, 2017, 02:57:18 PM

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rte66man

I found this somewhat ambiguous item on agenda for the upcoming ODOT Commission meeting:

Quote
f) Oklahoma County — District IV — to provide a preliminary engineering study to determine the interim and ultimate solutions for SH-152 from the anticipated Oklahoma Turnpike interchange west of Council Road, extending east along SH-152 and I-44, south of the I-240 interchange in Cleveland County.   
EC-1868   HNTB Corporation  $3,253,414.00

For those who aren't familiar with it, this is the existing freeway section of OK152 that runs just to the north of the Will Rogers World Airport in OKC.  I am somewhat puzzled as to the reference to the part south of the I-240 interchange in Cleveland County.  Since the county line crosses I-44 at SW 89th St, it is implying that they may be FINALLY addressing the total inadequacy of I44 between the Airport Rd exit and SW 89th St even though OK152 ends at the Airport Rd interchange.  I hope the following will be addressed:
(1) - braid the southbound onramp from SW 59th with the I-44 south exit ramp at the I-240 junction. The weaving there is terrifying.
(2) - widen I44 to at least 6 lanes from SW 74th to SW 104th.  The current configuration effectively makes southbound traffic one lane from SW 59th as the second exit lane at I240 immediately becomes an exit-only loop ramp to SW 74th. The northbound loop ramp from SW 74th causes severe weaving for traffic trying to exit eastbound on I-240.  Some form of c/d lane along with ramp braiding would greatly help.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra


Plutonic Panda

Will be excited to see what this study recommends. So nice studies going on. Belle Isle Bridge, I-35 South OKC METRO, and now this.

J N Winkler

I think a focus of this study will be improvements that are needed for the involved segments of SH 152, I-240, and I-44 to function as part of a beltway that includes the new segment of Kilpatrick Turnpike between I-40 and SH 152.

I find it kind of disappointing that SH 152 isn't receiving further freeway upgrades to the west to tie in with a longer Kilpatrick Turnpike extension that runs from I-40 south along the SH 4 corridor to tie seamlessly into the H.E. Bailey Spur, but . . . baby steps!
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

rte66man

Quote from: J N Winkler on June 29, 2017, 01:33:08 PM
I think a focus of this study will be improvements that are needed for the involved segments of SH 152, I-240, and I-44 to function as part of a beltway that includes the new segment of Kilpatrick Turnpike between I-40 and SH 152.

I find it kind of disappointing that SH 152 isn't receiving further freeway upgrades to the west to tie in with a longer Kilpatrick Turnpike extension that runs from I-40 south along the SH 4 corridor to tie seamlessly into the H.E. Bailey Spur, but . . . baby steps!

It would now be cost prohibitive as no ROW was protected at all.  The rapid growth of the City of Mustang has effectively precluded that extension even though I believe the original intent was to branch off SW of 152 and head southeast along the north side of the Canadian River, cross I44 above SW149th St and continue east on to I35 just south of the SW19 St interchange.  This is according tothe 1973 Official Map put out by ODOT.  I will try to get a screen cap posted later.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

Scott5114

EMBARK posts removed. Please keep discussion of EMBARK and other non-road transportation topics in the Mass Transit forum.

Quote from: rte66man on June 28, 2017, 02:57:18 PM
(2) - widen I44 to at least 6 lanes from SW 74th to SW 104th.  The current configuration effectively makes southbound traffic one lane from SW 59th as the second exit lane at I240 immediately becomes an exit-only loop ramp to SW 74th. The northbound loop ramp from SW 74th causes severe weaving for traffic trying to exit eastbound on I-240.  Some form of c/d lane along with ramp braiding would greatly help.

I think there's a good argument to be made for I-44 to be expanded to 6 lanes all the way to Newcastle. It's definitely showing its age in terms of design, etc.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

bugo

#5
The 44/240 interchange is ridiculous. Traffic must exit to stay on I-44 and the mainline continues as I-240. This is a relic from pre-1982 when I-240 followed what is now I-44 between exit 115 and I-40 and what is now I-44 "west" (south) of exit 115 was simply a US 62 freeway and was not on the interstate system. The interchange should be reconfigured so I-44 is the through movement in both directions.

How many times does I-44 exit off itself in both directions in OKC?

Where did US 277 end before I-44 was extended into Texas?

rte66man

Quote from: bugo on June 30, 2017, 05:07:58 AM
Where did US 277 end before I-44 was extended into Texas?

According to the 1955 official OK map, US277 and US62 ran north on Meridian after it crossed the Canadian River and turned east along Newcastle Road and SW 29th St until it ended at US77 (Robinson Ave).  Will Rogers World Airport wasn't yet the commercial airline operation it is today. Whenever the freeway from the HE Bailey north to I-240 was opened to traffic (1964?), US62 was rerouted onto it and US277 was truncated back to its current terminus.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

Scott5114

Quote from: bugo on June 30, 2017, 05:07:58 AM
The 44/240 interchange is ridiculous. Traffic must exit to stay on I-44 and the mainline continues as I-240. This is a relic from pre-1982 when I-240 followed what is now I-44 between exit 115 and I-40 and what is now I-44 "west" (south) of exit 115 was simply a US 62 freeway and was not on the interstate system. The interchange should be reconfigured so I-44 is the through movement in both directions.

Most traffic does follow the I-240 movement, though.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

bugo

I find it interesting how before the section of modern I-44 between I-40 and I-240 was built, what is now I-240 between I-35 and I-44 and what is now I-44 from I-240 to the split between the Bailey Turnpike (I-44) and US 62-277 was simply a US 62 freeway there was no interchange there, just a really sharp curve. Are there any pictures of this curve before the interchange was built?

NE2

Quote from: bugo on July 01, 2017, 06:12:43 PM
I find it interesting how before the section of modern I-44 between I-40 and I-240 was built, what is now I-240 between I-35 and I-44 and what is now I-44 from I-240 to the split between the Bailey Turnpike (I-44) and US 62-277 was simply a US 62 freeway there was no interchange there, just a really sharp curve. Are there any pictures of this curve before the interchange was built?
Oh shit. I didn't realize it curved *that* way. That's sexy.
http://historicaerials.com/location/35.39532975257215/-97.57121086120605/1969/16
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

US 89

Quote from: NE2 on July 01, 2017, 06:21:23 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 01, 2017, 06:12:43 PM
I find it interesting how before the section of modern I-44 between I-40 and I-240 was built, what is now I-240 between I-35 and I-44 and what is now I-44 from I-240 to the split between the Bailey Turnpike (I-44) and US 62-277 was simply a US 62 freeway there was no interchange there, just a really sharp curve. Are there any pictures of this curve before the interchange was built?
Oh shit. I didn't realize it curved *that* way. That's sexy.
http://historicaerials.com/location/35.39532975257215/-97.57121086120605/1969/16

That is one serious bend. The bend on the mainline freeway in that aerial image almost looks sharper than the loop ramp from 240 to 44 west (south) today.

bugo

I wonder what the posted advisory speed was for this curve. The actual speed limit might have even been lower because of this curve. There is precedent in Oklahoma for lowering the speed limit because of curves.

Scott5114

Another interesting note is that if you pan north along the path of present-day I-44, there's a gap in the development for the freeway to pass through. (Not sure if it was already built on and demolished or if the Department of Highways had just purchased the ROW ahead of time.)
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

sparker

Quote from: roadguy2 on July 01, 2017, 07:30:00 PM
Quote from: NE2 on July 01, 2017, 06:21:23 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 01, 2017, 06:12:43 PM
I find it interesting how before the section of modern I-44 between I-40 and I-240 was built, what is now I-240 between I-35 and I-44 and what is now I-44 from I-240 to the split between the Bailey Turnpike (I-44) and US 62-277 was simply a US 62 freeway there was no interchange there, just a really sharp curve. Are there any pictures of this curve before the interchange was built?
Oh shit. I didn't realize it curved *that* way. That's sexy.
http://historicaerials.com/location/35.39532975257215/-97.57121086120605/1969/16

That is one serious bend. The bend on the mainline freeway in that aerial image almost looks sharper than the loop ramp from 240 to 44 west (south) today.

Since the Bailey Turnpike was opened in 1964, and the aerial view was dated 1969, it's likely that obtuse curve was due to the need for access from the OKC freeway network to that turnpike prior to the construction of the original I-240 north of there to I-40; the E-W segment of nascent I-240 obviously served that purpose for the time being.

Scott5114

Quote from: sparker on July 02, 2017, 02:20:03 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on July 01, 2017, 07:30:00 PM
Quote from: NE2 on July 01, 2017, 06:21:23 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 01, 2017, 06:12:43 PM
I find it interesting how before the section of modern I-44 between I-40 and I-240 was built, what is now I-240 between I-35 and I-44 and what is now I-44 from I-240 to the split between the Bailey Turnpike (I-44) and US 62-277 was simply a US 62 freeway there was no interchange there, just a really sharp curve. Are there any pictures of this curve before the interchange was built?
Oh shit. I didn't realize it curved *that* way. That's sexy.
http://historicaerials.com/location/35.39532975257215/-97.57121086120605/1969/16

That is one serious bend. The bend on the mainline freeway in that aerial image almost looks sharper than the loop ramp from 240 to 44 west (south) today.

Since the Bailey Turnpike was opened in 1964, and the aerial view was dated 1969, it's likely that obtuse curve was due to the need for access from the OKC freeway network to that turnpike prior to the construction of the original I-240 north of there to I-40; the E-W segment of nascent I-240 obviously served that purpose for the time being.

And the future I-240 more or less dead-ends at the I-35 interchange. That explains why I-240 sucks so much less east of I-35.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

rte66man

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 02, 2017, 02:25:41 AM
Quote from: sparker on July 02, 2017, 02:20:03 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on July 01, 2017, 07:30:00 PM
Quote from: NE2 on July 01, 2017, 06:21:23 PM
Quote from: bugo on July 01, 2017, 06:12:43 PM
I find it interesting how before the section of modern I-44 between I-40 and I-240 was built, what is now I-240 between I-35 and I-44 and what is now I-44 from I-240 to the split between the Bailey Turnpike (I-44) and US 62-277 was simply a US 62 freeway there was no interchange there, just a really sharp curve. Are there any pictures of this curve before the interchange was built?
Oh shit. I didn't realize it curved *that* way. That's sexy.
http://historicaerials.com/location/35.39532975257215/-97.57121086120605/1969/16

That is one serious bend. The bend on the mainline freeway in that aerial image almost looks sharper than the loop ramp from 240 to 44 west (south) today.

Since the Bailey Turnpike was opened in 1964, and the aerial view was dated 1969, it's likely that obtuse curve was due to the need for access from the OKC freeway network to that turnpike prior to the construction of the original I-240 north of there to I-40; the E-W segment of nascent I-240 obviously served that purpose for the time being.

And the future I-240 more or less dead-ends at the I-35 interchange. That explains why I-240 sucks so much less east of I-35.

All of the above is correct.  When the US62 connector was originally opened in 1964, it was only 2 lanes from just north of the Canadian river to 74th St.  The other 2 lanes did not open for another year.

Also, it had always been the intent to carry 440 (as it was originally scheduled to be labeled) north.  I believe the housing ended where it did more because of the airport than anything else, but the knowledge of an upcoming freeway was undoubtedly part of the decision.

I well remember that curve on the many trips from Duncan to Tulsa.  IIRC, it was posted as a 25 mph curve with large yellow warning signs with flashing lights.  I do not remember any rumble strips.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

bugo

Quote from: rte66man on July 05, 2017, 10:20:43 AM
All of the above is correct.  When the US62 connector was originally opened in 1964, it was only 2 lanes from just north of the Canadian river to 74th St.  The other 2 lanes did not open for another year.

Also, it had always been the intent to carry 440 (as it was originally scheduled to be labeled) north.  I believe the housing ended where it did more because of the airport than anything else, but the knowledge of an upcoming freeway was undoubtedly part of the decision.

I well remember that curve on the many trips from Duncan to Tulsa.  IIRC, it was posted as a 25 mph curve with large yellow warning signs with flashing lights.  I do not remember any rumble strips.

Thanks for the information. I'm glad there are older members of this forum who remember things like they used to be. We have knowledge that can't be found in any book, website or in any old pictures. Older posters are a treasure and should be revered. The younger posters could learn a lot from us. I have a lot of knowledge (and I'm sure you do too) that will be gone forever when I die. Wisdom and knowledge aren't acquired in an instant.

Scott5114

uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef



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