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States Ranked by Signage Quality

Started by webny99, February 16, 2018, 08:16:22 AM

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webny99

Quote from: Rothman on February 27, 2018, 12:18:01 AM
Doesn't VT have the mismash of green and black state route shields?  Why definitely the top?

That's a problem with visual appeal, but not a problem with guidance. So far, all the reviews of Vermont have been rave, and that's what I'm going off of. I haven't been there, so I can't say.

Quote from: Brian556 on February 27, 2018, 12:46:04 AM
Ive said this before... Tennessee is one of the worst.

People seem to be opinionated about Tennessee. Scott said it belongs up top, and I'd tend to agree, but then there have been a lot of negative comments. That's why I put it at "controversial/around average". I've been to 23 states, and Tennessee is definitely not at the bottom, though it may have its issues.


SidS1045

Quote from: Rothman on February 27, 2018, 12:18:01 AMDoesn't VT have the mismash of green and black state route shields?

Not a mishmash at all, it's by design.  Green shields with the state name are state-maintained roads, B&W shields designate city- or town-maintained roads.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

Rothman

Quote from: SidS1045 on February 27, 2018, 11:17:16 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 27, 2018, 12:18:01 AMDoesn't VT have the mismash of green and black state route shields?

Not a mishmash at all, it's by design.  Green shields with the state name are state-maintained roads, B&W shields designate city- or town-maintained roads.
Meh.  Mishmash by design. :D
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

doorknob60

Nevada is below average IMO. Not in terms of quality of the signs itself, but in terms of what is signed. On my trip to Las Vegas, I made two significant mistakes I can blame on signage.

1. I was planning on exiting I-15 to stop at In-N-Out on Craig Rd (NV-573). I was only aware of the state route, not the road name. No mention of the route anywhere on the freeway (not to mention, I don't remember seeing a logo sign for In-N-Out either), I missed it.

2. Driving from Vegas to Ely, I missed the turn off for NV-318. It was 10 PM and I'd had a long day, so I know I wasn't fully mentally aware (in my normal state, I know that 318 and 375 are the turn off, I knew that, I just didn't process it in my state). But I am almost sure the signs I saw only mentioned NV-375, and not NV-318. And I know for a fact that they don't sign 318 with the control city of Ely from US-93 (I was aware of this, and fully planned on using NV-318). Due to this, I passed it and ended up taking a ~40 mile longer route. As I was already tired, this really put me in a bad mood (and I gunned it up to 85 to try to make up some time, which is probably a bad idea at night in December when it was below freezing and it started to snow; but the road was nearly empty). This is the biggest direction mistake I have ever made while driving in my life, and I can definitely blame the signage for it.

I'd put it like this, for only the states I'm fairly familiar with:
1. Idaho
2. Washington
3-4. Not sure between Montana and Oregon (I'll have a better idea once I drive through MT again in April)
5. Utah
6-7. Cant decide between Nevada and California (CA is so big, and while I don't have any bad examples like the above, I know they have a lot of issues and inconsistencies, though I find CA signage super interesting for that reason)

I'd say 1-5 are all average or better, 6-7 below average.

roadfro

I'd rate Nevada as average. Older signage practices seem to be a bit inconsistent in design and application, but newer projects tend to have much more consistent design and layout.


Quote from: doorknob60 on February 27, 2018, 05:49:13 PM
Nevada is below average IMO. Not in terms of quality of the signs itself, but in terms of what is signed. On my trip to Las Vegas, I made two significant mistakes I can blame on signage.

1. I was planning on exiting I-15 to stop at In-N-Out on Craig Rd (NV-573). I was only aware of the state route, not the road name. No mention of the route anywhere on the freeway (not to mention, I don't remember seeing a logo sign for In-N-Out either), I missed it.

2. Driving from Vegas to Ely, I missed the turn off for NV-318. It was 10 PM and I'd had a long day, so I know I wasn't fully mentally aware (in my normal state, I know that 318 and 375 are the turn off, I knew that, I just didn't process it in my state). But I am almost sure the signs I saw only mentioned NV-375, and not NV-318. And I know for a fact that they don't sign 318 with the control city of Ely from US-93 (I was aware of this, and fully planned on using NV-318). Due to this, I passed it and ended up taking a ~40 mile longer route. As I was already tired, this really put me in a bad mood (and I gunned it up to 85 to try to make up some time, which is probably a bad idea at night in December when it was below freezing and it started to snow; but the road was nearly empty). This is the biggest direction mistake I have ever made while driving in my life, and I can definitely blame the signage for it.

1. Most 500- and 600-series urban routes are not signed from BGSs on freeways. These are local collector/arterial roads that happen to be under NDOT ownership & maintenance and have a state route number simply because of that (a remnant of the restructured federal aid system/classifications brought about during the 1976 renumbering). For these routes, posting a route number serves no navigational value to the average motorist, they tend to be scarcely signed, and as a result locals never refer to these routes by route number. NDOT has been seeking to decommission many of these routes. In fact, a significant chunk of Craig Road/SR 573 was relinquished to local control in the mid-2000s–the In-N-Out you sought just west of I-15 is on a section of Craig Road no longer designated SR 573.

I know the Craig Road exit on I-15 has several logo signs. It's possible you just missed In-N-Out being listed (or also possible that they didn't have a logo on the sign).


2. If you were coming from Vegas on that trip, there are signs indicating the junction with SR 318–or at least there were about 6 years ago. If I recall, there was a 1/2-mile advance "junction SR 318" BGS, and a LGS that said "SR 318 / SR 375" in text just before the turn. What could have been confusing is that the BGS in between these listing destinations tells you to continue straight (on US 93) for Pioche and Ely and turn left for Rachel and Tonopah (which are both destinations reachable via SR 375) without listing any destinations for SR 318 or indicating that SR 318 is the shortcut to Ely. That particular junction is unique in that it is lacking the typical route junction assemblies in the northbound direction (at least when I was last through there).
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

paulthemapguy

My rankings focus more on maintenance quality, attention to repairs, and coverage.  I tried to base my opinions less on aesthetic preferences and more on how good of a job each state does at keeping signage intact.  Not totally sold on these rankings so take this as a grain of salt.

Excellent:  West Virginia, Minnesota, Idaho, Ohio, New York, Texas
Very nice:  South Dakota, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Maine, Michigan
Pretty Good:  Utah, Florida, North Carolina, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas
Average:  Indiana, California, Washington, New Hampshire, Nevada, Arizona
Lackluster:  Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Oregon, Connecticut
Really bad:  Tennessee, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Kentucky, South Carolina
The worst:  Oklahoma, New Mexico
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My website! http://www.paulacrossamerica.com Now featuring all of Ohio!
My USA Shield Gallery https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

freebrickproductions

Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 28, 2018, 11:11:04 AM
My rankings focus more on maintenance quality, attention to repairs, and coverage.  I tried to base my opinions less on aesthetic preferences and more on how good of a job each state does at keeping signage intact.  Not totally sold on these rankings so take this as a grain of salt.

Excellent:  West Virginia, Minnesota, Idaho, Ohio, New York, Texas
Very nice:  South Dakota, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Maine, Michigan
Pretty Good:  Utah, Florida, North Carolina, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas
Average:  Indiana, California, Washington, New Hampshire, Nevada, Arizona
Lackluster:  Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Oregon, Connecticut
Really bad:  Tennessee, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Kentucky, South Carolina
The worst:  Oklahoma, New Mexico
Where would you put Alabama in your list? Personally, I'd rank them as "lackluster" when it comes to state signage and either "Really bad" or "The worst" when it comes to local (county/town/city) signage.
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

paulthemapguy

Quote from: freebrickproductions on March 03, 2018, 01:50:18 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on February 28, 2018, 11:11:04 AM
My rankings focus more on maintenance quality, attention to repairs, and coverage.  I tried to base my opinions less on aesthetic preferences and more on how good of a job each state does at keeping signage intact.  Not totally sold on these rankings so take this as a grain of salt.

Excellent:  West Virginia, Minnesota, Idaho, Ohio, New York, Texas
Very nice:  South Dakota, North Dakota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Maine, Michigan
Pretty Good:  Utah, Florida, North Carolina, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas
Average:  Indiana, California, Washington, New Hampshire, Nevada, Arizona
Lackluster:  Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Arkansas, Oregon, Connecticut
Really bad:  Tennessee, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Kentucky, South Carolina
The worst:  Oklahoma, New Mexico
Where would you put Alabama in your list? Personally, I'd rank them as "lackluster" when it comes to state signage and either "Really bad" or "The worst" when it comes to local (county/town/city) signage.

I should clarify that my rankings focus on DOT signage...I can't really judge all of the local agencies in a state; that would be way too difficult.  Alabama I'd probably put as average or lackluster.  They're very active about making sure every relevant route is signed, leading to a lot of big salads--the extra attention is great, but the salads are overwhelming and therefore bad.  That leads me to a feeling of ambivalence.  There's attention to high-quality sign sheeting and reinforcement, but a lot of signs are still bent and leaning, again contributing to my ambivalence.  Alabama isn't the best, but certainly not the worst.
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My website! http://www.paulacrossamerica.com Now featuring all of Ohio!
My USA Shield Gallery https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

webny99

States we haven't heard much from:

Missouri - Arkansas - Indiana - Ohio - South Carolina - Connecticut - Rhode Island - Maine

The west has been covered fairly extensively, so once the remaining eastern states are covered, I can submit a full list and see what the thoughts are on it  :)


Max Rockatansky

Connecticut and Rhode Island are both pretty bad.  Both have haggard ancient signage and if I recall correct Rhode Island doesn't sign a lot of routes.  I thought people were saying Missouri was pretty good?...South Carolina definitely does a decent job and has unique shields.  Indiana and Ohio seemed middle of the road to me, nothing too bad or all that spectacular.  Arkansas seemed okay when I lasted visited in 2014 and I haven't been Maine since the 1990s 

cjk374

Arkansas signage APPEARANCE is fine. Arkansas signage USAGE would be graded as an F - - -. The bad grade is for the lack of concurrency signage on most highways...interstate, US, or state routes.
Runnin' roads and polishin' rails.

MNHighwayMan

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on March 07, 2018, 02:30:48 PM
I thought people were saying Missouri was pretty good?

I've been through northern Missouri a couple times, and I thought the signage was excellent, but I don't know if that can be generalized to the entire state.

paulthemapguy

Quote from: webny99 on March 07, 2018, 02:05:38 PM
States we haven't heard much from:

Missouri - Arkansas - Indiana - Ohio - South Carolina - Connecticut - Rhode Island - Maine

The west has been covered fairly extensively, so once the remaining eastern states are covered, I can submit a full list and see what the thoughts are on it  :)

I'm not super knowledgeable about any of these states, but to me, Ohio, Maine, and Missouri are above average.  Rhode Island, Connecticut, and Arkansas are below average.  Indiana I'd label as average, and I know nothing about South Carolina.
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My website! http://www.paulacrossamerica.com Now featuring all of Ohio!
My USA Shield Gallery https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

doorknob60

Quote from: roadfro on February 28, 2018, 02:47:08 AM
I'd rate Nevada as average. Older signage practices seem to be a bit inconsistent in design and application, but newer projects tend to have much more consistent design and layout.



1. Most 500- and 600-series urban routes are not signed from BGSs on freeways. These are local collector/arterial roads that happen to be under NDOT ownership & maintenance and have a state route number simply because of that (a remnant of the restructured federal aid system/classifications brought about during the 1976 renumbering). For these routes, posting a route number serves no navigational value to the average motorist, they tend to be scarcely signed, and as a result locals never refer to these routes by route number. NDOT has been seeking to decommission many of these routes. In fact, a significant chunk of Craig Road/SR 573 was relinquished to local control in the mid-2000s–the In-N-Out you sought just west of I-15 is on a section of Craig Road no longer designated SR 573.

I know the Craig Road exit on I-15 has several logo signs. It's possible you just missed In-N-Out being listed (or also possible that they didn't have a logo on the sign).


2. If you were coming from Vegas on that trip, there are signs indicating the junction with SR 318–or at least there were about 6 years ago. If I recall, there was a 1/2-mile advance "junction SR 318" BGS, and a LGS that said "SR 318 / SR 375" in text just before the turn. What could have been confusing is that the BGS in between these listing destinations tells you to continue straight (on US 93) for Pioche and Ely and turn left for Rachel and Tonopah (which are both destinations reachable via SR 375) without listing any destinations for SR 318 or indicating that SR 318 is the shortcut to Ely. That particular junction is unique in that it is lacking the typical route junction assemblies in the northbound direction (at least when I was last through there).

1. Fair enough. Though in Idaho for example, Eagle Rd (what locals call it) and ID-55 are both well signed. But that's not apples to apples because ID-55 is an important route outside urban areas as well. I guess Google Maps is ultimately to blame there: if no signage exists at all for it, it probably should not be shown on Google Maps. About the logo signs, it didn't help that I-15 was under construction at the time, so it's possible that the signs were temporarily missing (or hard to see). Not sure if I saw the logo signs or not. Or In-N-Out may simply not be on it.

2. Yeah Google Street View shows what you recall, as well, but it's also like 8 years old imagery. I can say for sure that I didn't see what's shown on GSV, though it's possible that it was there and I somehow missed it (which is very possible driving 70 MPH at night when kind of tired). I wish GSV would re-visit a lot of the rural US highways out here (as in, all over the region, it's a problem in NV, ID, and OR in some places), the imagery for many of them is super blurry, you can barely make out signage.

formulanone

#64
Quote from: webny99 on March 07, 2018, 02:05:38 PM
Missouri - Arkansas - Indiana - Ohio - South Carolina - Connecticut - Rhode Island - Maine

Missouri, Indiana, Maine: Fairly accurate and neat signage. A couple odd shield shapes here and there for MO and ME (excluding old font styles in Maine).

Arkansas: a little off, though not terribly inconsistent in BGS work. A little below average on shield consistency, if it's not completely missing.

Ohio and Connecticut: Call me biased, but there's all sorts of weird and old varieties in these states, and I appreciate that. Plenty of old button copy left. In both cases, it seems like there's another route marker just half a mile away.

South Carolina: standalone shields are fairly accurate and consistent, though BGSs look weird with the thick black borders and inconsistent Series' usage.

Rhode Island seems to be a trove of inconsistent signage sizes, fonts, alignment, shapes, odd warnings. The exception is I-95, which is actually pretty good (and looks to be fairly recent).

webny99

Michigan has excellent signage. Really stands out next to their crippled and failing infrastructure  :-D
They are definitely a top-ten candidate, at least from what I've seen.

webny99

I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to post a full list of my own and see what others thought. I included all of the lower 48 and it ended up a lot more top heavy than I thought it would, so I reread the thread and made some changes. Obviously, I am going mainly by others comments for states I haven't been to, while my placement for states I have been to is a bit more nuanced. However, I am very much open for suggestions!  :)

Tier 1 - The Best
Idaho, Michigan, Ohio, North Dakota, Vermont

Tier 2 - Good
Alabama, Florida, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Texas, Washington, Wisconsin

Tier 3 - Average
Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wyoming

Tier 4 - Poor
Arkansas, California, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oregon

Tier 5 - The Worst
New Mexico, Oklahoma, Rhode Island


hotdogPi

What's "poor" about MA? They're pretty good about getting you where you need to go.
Clinched, plus MA 286

Traveled, plus several state routes

Lowest untraveled: 25 (updated from 14)

New clinches: MA 286
New traveled: MA 14, MA 123

Rothman

Quote from: 1 on May 02, 2019, 04:07:20 PM
What's "poor" about MA? They're pretty good about getting you where you need to go.
What Massachusetts are you talking about?  Not the one I grew up in.  Try following MA 122A from start to finish, or MA 141 or MA 116 in the Chicopee and Holyoke areas.  MA is terrible at posting reassurance signage.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

roadman

Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2019, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 02, 2019, 04:07:20 PM
What's "poor" about MA? They're pretty good about getting you where you need to go.
What Massachusetts are you talking about?  Not the one I grew up in.  Try following MA 122A from start to finish, or MA 141 or MA 116 in the Chicopee and Holyoke areas.  MA is terrible at posting reassurance signage.

Blame that on the state's practice of "musical jurisdictions".  Just because a secondary roadway is a numbered route doesn't automatically mean it's owned by the states.  And most local communities have an aversion to signs.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

Rothman

Quote from: roadman on May 02, 2019, 04:41:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 02, 2019, 04:22:38 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 02, 2019, 04:07:20 PM
What's "poor" about MA? They're pretty good about getting you where you need to go.
What Massachusetts are you talking about?  Not the one I grew up in.  Try following MA 122A from start to finish, or MA 141 or MA 116 in the Chicopee and Holyoke areas.  MA is terrible at posting reassurance signage.

Blame that on the state's practice of "musical jurisdictions".  Just because a secondary roadway is a numbered route doesn't automatically mean it's owned by the states.  And most local communities have an aversion to signs.
Doesn't change the fact that signage in MA sucks.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

jp the roadgeek

I've got lost trying to follow MA 141 from Chicopee Falls to US 5 in Holyoke because of the unmarked turns and crosses of the Connecticut River.  Until a few years ago, MassDOT was pretty bad about numbering the MA 183 segment southeast of US 7 (the portion concurrent with MA 23 and MA 57, and the standalone segment between MA 57 and the CT border.  Maps were even horrible at showing it as well.  For years, I wondered if there was a connection between the Great Barrington-Lenox segment and CT 183.  Finally decided to take that way home from Great Barrington one day and sure enough, it was well signed. 

CT signage quality is getting better, but a lot of it is absolutely horrible and illegible.  The Phase III signage on CT 2 coming back from the casinos is so illegible due to broken reflectors, many often miss their exits at night.  CT 9 is also pretty awful.  Also, some of the route signage through cities (US 1 through Stamford, Bridgeport, New Haven, and New London) leaves much to be desired, and I wish CTDOT would put concurrent US routes on the BGS's along with the thru route (why US 7 in the Danbury area gets this treatment but every other US route concurrency statewide gets relegated to reassurance shields I'm not sure). 
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

sprjus4

Quote from: webny99 on May 02, 2019, 03:21:54 PM
I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to post a full list of my own and see what others thought. I included all of the lower 48 and it ended up a lot more top heavy than I thought it would, so I reread the thread and made some changes. Obviously, I am going mainly by others comments for states I haven't been to, while my placement for states I have been to is a bit more nuanced. However, I am very much open for suggestions!  :)

Tier 1 - The Best
Idaho, Michigan, Ohio, North Dakota, Vermont

Tier 2 - Good
Alabama, Florida, Illinois, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Texas, Washington, Wisconsin

Tier 3 - Average
Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wyoming

Tier 4 - Poor
Arkansas, California, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oregon

Tier 5 - The Worst
New Mexico, Oklahoma, Rhode Island
I'm not familiar with most, though I have to disagree with the positions of North Carolina and Virginia. I'd flip them IMHO. The signage in Virginia is generally okay on the interstate system (I hate the new font they've been using the past 10 yrs or so), but any freeway or interchange not on the interstate system has a huge variety. The newer interchanges are the worst. They just opened an interchange on US-58 at Courtland, and the signage is so poor. Some of the new signage on the bypasses nearby are also very poor and inconsistent with standard signage. Another example is on US-17 in Chesapeake. It was recently expanded from a two-lane road into a four-lane freeway with a high rise bridge, and while the signage recently put on it is better than the one at Courtland, it's still not consistent with traditional signage (the fact the "EXIT 1/2 MILE" signage is in the exit number tab as opposed to below the road name). VA-168 in Chesapeake is way better IMHO, though it is older. Has mileage based exit numbers, traditional interstate-style signage, etc.

In North Carolina however, they still use the older font, and signage is consistent on every exit in the state, freeway, interstate, rural arterial interchange, whatever it is, it's interstate-style standard signage for the most part - even the new ones stick with the traditional style & older font. And most exits have mileage based exit numbers, which Virginia lacks on most (I say most because a few do have exit numbers, though not mileage based) highways that aren't an interstate.

I've just personally always felt North Carolina has way better signage, in terms in consistency and conforming to traditional standards, then Virginia.

thspfc

Wisconsin is generally good. All state routes, US routes, and Interstates are well signed. County routes are very well signed too, but business routes are not - especially the ones that are left up to the cities, which is almost all of them.

webny99

Quote from: 1 on May 02, 2019, 04:07:20 PM
What's "poor" about MA? They're pretty good about getting you where you need to go.

I don't recall any signs with great aesthetics or otherwise outstanding from my trip there in 2014. Others comments convinced me to choose poor for now, but I may revise it.



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