Is this warning sign MUTCD allowed??

[roadman65]

A signal ahead warning sign in Orange Heights, FL along US Highway 301.

[Big John]

Not according to the 2009 MUTCD, but old versions had the worded "SIGNAL AHEAD" sign but as a diamond. 

[roadman65]

I thought so. And yes older signs had the diamond and flashers on the sides flashing alternatively.  NJ used to have signs on the side of the road that had the flashers above and underneath. 

In cases where I seen signs like these, they were accompanied by ground mount signal ahead with the standard international signal icon.  This one has only this warning as you can see.

[jakeroot]

Seems okay to me. Swap the text for a signal symbol, and you should be good. Although if the sign flashes permanently, that might be an issue. Should only flash when the signal is about to change.

[formulanone]

A signal ahead warning sign in Orange Heights, FL along US Highway 301.

This is US 301 and FL 26, for those curious.

First time I drove though Orange Heights was 1997, and I think it had the overhead warning lamp way back then, since it was about 10 miles since the last signal. Could be wrong.

[Eth]

Seems okay to me. Swap the text for a signal symbol, and you should be good. Although if the sign flashes permanently, that might be an issue. Should only flash when the signal is about to change.

So like this one, but with flashers?

[paulthemapguy]

I would posit that no it's not allowed.  I think it's intentional that the 2009 edition included a provision for a symbolic "signal ahead" sign and not a textual one.  The general trend is shifting toward symbolic imagery to ensure accessibility to people with an amateur understanding of English.  I have seen situations where a symbolic "signal ahead" sign was posted with flashing amber beacons, so I know that alternative is entirely possible.  (This will happen where a freeway becomes a road with grade crossings.)

[jakeroot]

Seems okay to me. Swap the text for a signal symbol, and you should be good. Although if the sign flashes permanently, that might be an issue. Should only flash when the signal is about to change.

So like this one, but with flashers?

Right. And preferably, the flashers only going off when drivers need to be prepared to stop (not just a warning that a signal is ahead).

[roadfro]

My answer is that the sign may be acceptable depending on when it was installed. If installed after the 2009 MUTCD (or state version/supplement) went into effect in Florida, then it is not compliant.

I would posit that no it's not allowed.  I think it's intentional that the 2009 edition included a provision for a symbolic "signal ahead" sign and not a textual one.  The general trend is shifting toward symbolic imagery to ensure accessibility to people with an amateur understanding of English.  I have seen situations where a symbolic "signal ahead" sign was posted with flashing amber beacons, so I know that alternative is entirely possible.  (This will happen where a freeway becomes a road with grade crossings.)

The 2009 MUTCD was the one that specifically eliminated the text-only "Signal Ahead" sign (both the text-only and symbolic versions were present in the 2003 and 2000 editions). It was the 2009 MUTCD rulemaking process that made a big push to implement more symbolization.

Seems okay to me. Swap the text for a signal symbol, and you should be good. Although if the sign flashes permanently, that might be an issue. Should only flash when the signal is about to change.

So like this one, but with flashers?

Right. And preferably, the flashers only going off when drivers need to be prepared to stop (not just a warning that a signal is ahead).

Actually, the signal ahead sign can be used with a continuously-flashing warning beacon.

The operation you're describing, jakeroot, would be an warning beacon interconnected with the traffic signal controller. In those cases, the appropriate sign is the W3-4 "Be Prepared to Stop" with a "When Flashing" placard, which is to be used in addition to the signal ahead sign placed upstream. (In this example, I believe it is inappropriate to use a beacon on the signal ahead sign.)

[traffic light guy]

If you need to question whether or not it's allowed, it most likely isn't allowed.

[NE2]

If you need to question whether or not it's allowed, it most likely isn't allowed.

Unless you're anal, like 99% of the people who would ask that.

[US71]

A signal ahead warning sign in Orange Heights, FL along US Highway 301.

I've seen similar in Louisiana and a couple in Arkansas.

MoDOT likes RED Signal Ahead, but they seem to be phasing them out in the Kansas City area.

This one is along US 60 in Rogersville

[US 89]

There are three ways I’ve seen this done in Utah:

-The most common installation today is a ”Prepare to Stop when Flashing” sign, when the lights turn on just before the light turns red.
-There are also ”Prepare to Stop” signs that light up just before the light turns red. I don’t think they install these anymore, because they’re significantly more expensive than the first option.
-And finally, there are signs like this, where the beacons flash no matter what the light ahead is.

[jakeroot]

Seems okay to me. Swap the text for a signal symbol, and you should be good. Although if the sign flashes permanently, that might be an issue. Should only flash when the signal is about to change.

So like this one, but with flashers?

Right. And preferably, the flashers only going off when drivers need to be prepared to stop (not just a warning that a signal is ahead).

Actually, the signal ahead sign can be used with a continuously-flashing warning beacon.

The operation you're describing, jakeroot, would be an warning beacon interconnected with the traffic signal controller. In those cases, the appropriate sign is the W3-4 "Be Prepared to Stop" with a "When Flashing" placard, which is to be used in addition to the signal ahead sign placed upstream. (In this example, I believe it is inappropriate to use a beacon on the signal ahead sign.)

I understand this. That's why I said "preferably", since such operation is not required. I don't see the purpose of using always-on flashing beacons specifically with signal ahead signs, since there's the possibility of confusing drivers who might think they are approaching a red signal.

The primary concern that drivers have about an approaching signal is whether or not it will be red when they arrive. A signal in itself is not something you really need to be warned about. Maybe when they were rare, and red light running was problematic. But they're very commonplace these days.

[briantroutman]

PennDOT has installed quite a few of these over the years, particularly where a high-speed arterial comes to a signalized intersection around a curve, and I like them quite a lot. This largely because, at least in my experience, they've always been trustworthy: If the word "RED"  is illuminated, the signal will be red or at least change to yellow by the time I approach the intersection, and I'll ease off the accelerator accordingly. If "RED"  isn't illuminated, I'll proceed as normal.

I dislike "PREPARE TO STOP"  for the opposite reason: I can't trust it. I've seen too many "PREPARE TO STOP"  signs at free flowing work zones, uncongested tunnel entrances, etc.

[Scott5114]

Seems okay to me. Swap the text for a signal symbol, and you should be good. Although if the sign flashes permanently, that might be an issue. Should only flash when the signal is about to change.

So like this one, but with flashers?

Right. And preferably, the flashers only going off when drivers need to be prepared to stop (not just a warning that a signal is ahead).

Actually, the signal ahead sign can be used with a continuously-flashing warning beacon.

The operation you're describing, jakeroot, would be an warning beacon interconnected with the traffic signal controller. In those cases, the appropriate sign is the W3-4 "Be Prepared to Stop" with a "When Flashing" placard, which is to be used in addition to the signal ahead sign placed upstream. (In this example, I believe it is inappropriate to use a beacon on the signal ahead sign.)

I understand this. That's why I said "preferably", since such operation is not required. I don't see the purpose of using always-on flashing beacons specifically with signal ahead signs, since there's the possibility of confusing drivers who might think they are approaching a red signal.

The primary concern that drivers have about an approaching signal is whether or not it will be red when they arrive. A signal in itself is not something you really need to be warned about. Maybe when they were rare, and red light running was problematic. But they're very commonplace these days.

Such a thing would be useful if it's in a situation where a driver is not expecting a traffic signal, e.g. after 50 miles of divided expressway with occasional interchanges and no signals.

[roadfro]

Actually, the signal ahead sign can be used with a continuously-flashing warning beacon.

The operation you're describing, jakeroot, would be an warning beacon interconnected with the traffic signal controller. In those cases, the appropriate sign is the W3-4 "Be Prepared to Stop" with a "When Flashing" placard, which is to be used in addition to the signal ahead sign placed upstream. (In this example, I believe it is inappropriate to use a beacon on the signal ahead sign.)

I understand this. That's why I said "preferably", since such operation is not required. I don't see the purpose of using always-on flashing beacons specifically with signal ahead signs, since there's the possibility of confusing drivers who might think they are approaching a red signal.

The primary concern that drivers have about an approaching signal is whether or not it will be red when they arrive. A signal in itself is not something you really need to be warned about. Maybe when they were rare, and red light running was problematic. But they're very commonplace these days.

Such a thing would be useful if it's in a situation where a driver is not expecting a traffic signal, e.g. after 50 miles of divided expressway with occasional interchanges and no signals.

The standard for a signal ahead sign to be installed is identical to a stop or yield ahead. Per section 2C.36, it is to be installed on intersection approaches with insufficient visibility of the intersection control to allow drivers to adequately respond to the device (e.g. curves or hills). It's not meant to be installed when you can see the signal ahead of you...

[US71]

Seems okay to me. Swap the text for a signal symbol, and you should be good. Although if the sign flashes permanently, that might be an issue. Should only flash when the signal is about to change.

So like this one, but with flashers?

Right. And preferably, the flashers only going off when drivers need to be prepared to stop (not just a warning that a signal is ahead).

Actually, the signal ahead sign can be used with a continuously-flashing warning beacon.

The operation you're describing, jakeroot, would be an warning beacon interconnected with the traffic signal controller. In those cases, the appropriate sign is the W3-4 "Be Prepared to Stop" with a "When Flashing" placard, which is to be used in addition to the signal ahead sign placed upstream. (In this example, I believe it is inappropriate to use a beacon on the signal ahead sign.)

I understand this. That's why I said "preferably", since such operation is not required. I don't see the purpose of using always-on flashing beacons specifically with signal ahead signs, since there's the possibility of confusing drivers who might think they are approaching a red signal.

The primary concern that drivers have about an approaching signal is whether or not it will be red when they arrive. A signal in itself is not something you really need to be warned about. Maybe when they were rare, and red light running was problematic. But they're very commonplace these days.

Such a thing would be useful if it's in a situation where a driver is not expecting a traffic signal, e.g. after 50 miles of divided expressway with occasional interchanges and no signals.

US 59 has no traffic signals between Jefferson, Texas and Marshall. Only about 10 miles, but it's (mostly) divided 4-Lane at 70 mph. There is a light-up overhead STOP AHEAD sign with flashers approaching Loop 390. It kicks in a few seconds before the light changes.

[jakeroot]

Actually, the signal ahead sign can be used with a continuously-flashing warning beacon.

The operation you're describing, jakeroot, would be an warning beacon interconnected with the traffic signal controller. In those cases, the appropriate sign is the W3-4 "Be Prepared to Stop" with a "When Flashing" placard, which is to be used in addition to the signal ahead sign placed upstream. (In this example, I believe it is inappropriate to use a beacon on the signal ahead sign.)

I understand this. That's why I said "preferably", since such operation is not required. I don't see the purpose of using always-on flashing beacons specifically with signal ahead signs, since there's the possibility of confusing drivers who might think they are approaching a red signal.

The primary concern that drivers have about an approaching signal is whether or not it will be red when they arrive. A signal in itself is not something you really need to be warned about. Maybe when they were rare, and red light running was problematic. But they're very commonplace these days.

Such a thing would be useful if it's in a situation where a driver is not expecting a traffic signal, e.g. after 50 miles of divided expressway with occasional interchanges and no signals.

The standard for a signal ahead sign to be installed is identical to a stop or yield ahead. Per section 2C.36, it is to be installed on intersection approaches with insufficient visibility of the intersection control to allow drivers to adequately respond to the device (e.g. curves or hills). It's not meant to be installed when you can see the signal ahead of you...

But unlike a stop or yield ahead, you don't always need to react to the signal. This is my main gripe with the 24/7 flashing beacons. I take no issue with the generic 'signal ahead' sign, without further accompaniment. Although, my preference would be that "stop when flashing" signs were always used since some warning would be appreciated, especially if visibility is limited.

[hbelkins]

Kentucky uses "Prepare to Stop When Flashing" signs extensively on US 23. Typically, there is an overhead sign/beacon assembly mounted by span wire, and a ground-mounted sign on the right. When you get to Virginia, there are "Signal Ahead" signs with beacons that constantly flash. IMHO, those are useless. I prefer flashers to be in operation only when the light is red or getting ready to turn red. They're more helpful than beacons that are always flashing, even if the light is going to be green.