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Started by Alex, March 07, 2009, 07:01:05 PM

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billpa

Here are the "new control city" signs on 83 northbound outside Harrisburg...

Pixel 2



Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: billpa on February 14, 2019, 11:29:41 AM
Here are the "new control city" signs on 83 northbound outside Harrisburg...


Whole new signs, or ODOT style tape job for the new control cities?
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

billpa

Old signs with patches.

Pixel 2


Roadsguy

Browsing ECMS, those overlays are part of the East Shore Section 1 contract, which does not bode well for the rest of the new signage...
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

Ben114

Quote from: billpa on February 14, 2019, 11:29:41 AM
Here are the "new control city" signs on 83 northbound outside Harrisburg...

Pixel 2
That Clearview-FHWA mix is disgusting.

PHLBOS

Quote from: Ben114 on February 14, 2019, 03:41:53 PM
Quote from: billpa on February 14, 2019, 11:29:41 AM
Here are the "new control city" signs on 83 northbound outside Harrisburg...

That Clearview-FHWA mix is disgusting.
Especially since PennDOT supposedly phased-out Clearview from their newer installs/modifications.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

briantroutman

Not that this excuses the use of Clearview, but I assume one reason the reason for the somewhat slapdash patch is that this entire assembly will be replaced when the Eisenhower Interchange is reconstructed which theoretically could begin in 2022.

Roadsguy

Quote from: PHLBOS on February 14, 2019, 03:54:12 PM
Quote from: Ben114 on February 14, 2019, 03:41:53 PM
Quote from: billpa on February 14, 2019, 11:29:41 AM
Here are the "new control city" signs on 83 northbound outside Harrisburg...

That Clearview-FHWA mix is disgusting.
Especially since PennDOT supposedly phased-out Clearview from their newer installs/modifications.

Have we actually confirmed that they actively no longer use Clearview and haven't gone back to it? They used it all the way up to the initial yanking of interim approval and I'm not sure that any new Highway Gothic signage isn't just what was still in the pipeline.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

PHLBOS

Quote from: Roadsguy on February 14, 2019, 04:27:49 PMHave we actually confirmed that they actively no longer use Clearview and haven't gone back to it? They used it all the way up to the initial yanking of interim approval and I'm not sure that any new Highway Gothic signage isn't just what was still in the pipeline.
When the IA was initially yanked; many newer PennDOT installs indeed switched back to Highway Gothic.  Whether PennDOT has since switched back officially; nobody knows...  maybe not all districts are on the same page as of yet.  OTOH, I don't believe the PTC has switched back to Clearview.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Roadsguy

I originally posted this in the Clearview thread, but it applies here as well:

Bad news (for most of us at least): I just spoke with the PennDOT District 8 senior project manager about signage on the I-83 East Shore Section 1 project and he confirmed that PennDOT has returned to Clearview, this project included. I have no idea about the Turnpike Commission.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

ixnay

Well, the Clearview/MUTCD/other sign fonts "controversy" makes it fun to "collect" signs with the various fonts, you gotta admit!

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

billpa

A couple more updated signs. These are along I-81 in Susquehanna Township, near the northern end of I-83...

Pixel 2


PHLBOS

Quote from: billpa on February 19, 2019, 12:43:25 PM

Couldn't they at least center-justified that State College mask (over Lewistown)?
Interesting-looking EXIT 67A-B tab as well; yeah, I know, such has been there for a while.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

ipeters61

Quote from: ixnay on February 16, 2019, 04:48:22 PM
Well, the Clearview/MUTCD/other sign fonts "controversy" makes it fun to "collect" signs with the various fonts, you gotta admit!

ixnay
What about this mess? https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4192077,-80.0901792,3a,18.8y,118.1h,99.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sISPdxeanRqbJzzDFFkC2Mw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
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Roadsguy

Recently, PennDOT built a new left turn lane here on the eastbound US 30 frontage road (Chester Road) approaching PA 272/Oregon Pike. For the signage, though, all they initially did was take the existing signs and cover up the left and middle signs' arrows and put two arrows in the corners of the middle sign, not even shifting the signs' positions. Since then, though, they've replaced all three of the signs here, and they look quite good. They even replaced the one on the right for some reason, judging by the minor differences you can spot between this photo and the Street View.

Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

jeffandnicole

#1041
Quote from: Roadsguy on March 11, 2019, 05:05:13 PM
Recently, PennDOT built a new left turn lane here on the eastbound US 30 frontage road (Chester Road) approaching PA 272/Oregon Pike. For the signage, though, all they initially did was take the existing signs and cover up the left and middle signs' arrows and put two arrows in the corners of the middle sign, not even shifting the signs' positions. Since then, though, they've replaced all three of the signs here, and they look quite good. They even replaced the one on the right for some reason, judging by the minor differences you can spot between this photo and the Street View.



I want to hear the planner for the left-most sign:

"While I hear you in a left arrow will be fine, I'm just afraid someone will turn left immediately, drive up the embankment and crash into the guardrail.  I think we need to be specific where they should turn left".

PHLBOS

Quote from: Roadsguy on March 11, 2019, 05:05:13 PM
Recently, PennDOT built a new left turn lane here on the eastbound US 30 frontage road (Chester Road) approaching PA 272/Oregon Pike. For the signage, though, all they initially did was take the existing signs and cover up the left and middle signs' arrows and put two arrows in the corners of the middle sign, not even shifting the signs' positions. Since then, though, they've replaced all three of the signs here, and they look quite good. They even replaced the one on the right for some reason, judging by the minor differences you can spot between this photo and the Street View.

Is it me or does the mixed-case lettering on the new signs appear thicker-stroked than those on the old signs?  I thought the mixed-case lettering on the old BGS' were Series E(M).  Was such actually an experimental case of Enhanced E(M) (Series E w/E(M) spacing).

Either way, the text on the older BGS' were actually more readable from a distance than those on the newer BGS' IMHO.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

ipeters61

Quote from: PHLBOS on March 12, 2019, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: Roadsguy on March 11, 2019, 05:05:13 PM
Recently, PennDOT built a new left turn lane here on the eastbound US 30 frontage road (Chester Road) approaching PA 272/Oregon Pike. For the signage, though, all they initially did was take the existing signs and cover up the left and middle signs' arrows and put two arrows in the corners of the middle sign, not even shifting the signs' positions. Since then, though, they've replaced all three of the signs here, and they look quite good. They even replaced the one on the right for some reason, judging by the minor differences you can spot between this photo and the Street View.

Is it me or does the mixed-case lettering on the new signs appear thicker-stroked than those on the old signs?  I thought the mixed-case lettering on the old BGS' were Series E(M).  Was such actually an experimental case of Enhanced E(M) (Series E w/E(M) spacing).

Either way, the text on the older BGS' were actually more readable from a distance than those on the newer BGS' IMHO.
Is it just me or do those shields look slightly too big?  Or is the text slightly too small?
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
Instagram | Clinched Map

billpa

#1044
Quote from: ipeters61 on March 12, 2019, 10:07:39 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on March 12, 2019, 08:58:51 AM
Quote from: Roadsguy on March 11, 2019, 05:05:13 PM
Recently, PennDOT built a new left turn lane here on the eastbound US 30 frontage road (Chester Road) approaching PA 272/Oregon Pike. For the signage, though, all they initially did was take the existing signs and cover up the left and middle signs' arrows and put two arrows in the corners of the middle sign, not even shifting the signs' positions. Since then, though, they've replaced all three of the signs here, and they look quite good. They even replaced the one on the right for some reason, judging by the minor differences you can spot between this photo and the Street View.

Is it me or does the mixed-case lettering on the new signs appear thicker-stroked than those on the old signs?  I thought the mixed-case lettering on the old BGS' were Series E(M).  Was such actually an experimental case of Enhanced E(M) (Series E w/E(M) spacing).

Either way, the text on the older BGS' were actually more readable from a distance than those on the newer BGS' IMHO.
Is it just me or do those shields look slightly too big?  Or is the text slightly too small?
On gsv the two '2s' in 272 - on the right sign - come right up against the edge of the keystone. On the new sign there's a lot more white space.

Pixel 2


billpa

I also just noticed on the left side of the road they failed to use updated arrow lane assignment signs and instead used a 'Left Lane MUST Turn Left' sign, which I find annoying.

PHLBOS

#1046
Quote from: ipeters61 on March 12, 2019, 10:07:39 AMIs it just me or do those shields look slightly too big?  Or is the text slightly too small?
No, the shields are the same size as the old ones and are properly sized IMHO.  See examples in the MUTCD for confirmation.

Oversized control city text and/or undersized route shields has been one of the unintended consequences of many state agencies (including DelDOT, since you're from that state) adopting the Clearview font.  The intended use of that font was to be done instead of using larger text not in addition to such.

Although DelDOT has since switched back to FHWA; many of their newer installs still feature unnecessarily large sign panels (see I-95 just south of I-495 for examples) due to the use of larger text for the control cities.

That said & again, the heights of the shields & text in the above US 30/222/PA 272 examples in Lancaster are indeed correct.

Quote from: billpa on March 12, 2019, 10:41:24 AMOn gsv the two '2s' in 272 come right up against the edge of the keystone. On these new signs there's a lot more white space.
Actually, the numerals on the 272 Keystone shield on the new BGS' as well as the old northbound 272 BGS are Series C.  The numerals (all of them not just the 2s) on the old 272 southbound are the wider Series D. 

Since both shields & numerals are of the same size/height; the result of using the Series D numerals meant that such numerals were scrunched in and why, IMHO, such should only be used on 3-digit route signs where the route number has at least a 1 in it.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

akotchi

It is possible that the text size was reduced on the panels, from 16" upper case to 13.3" upper case.  That may be why the shields look larger, because actually the text may be smaller.
Opinions here attributed to me are mine alone and do not reflect those of my employer or the agencies for which I am contracted to do work.

Alps

Guess what I found? State named I-78 shields! They're on overhead guide signs on US 22 west at PA 33.

PHLBOS

#1049
Quote from: Alps on March 15, 2019, 07:41:54 AMGuess what I found? State named I-78 shields! They're on overhead guide signs on US 22 west at PA 33.
FYI, such was mentioned about two-and-a-half years ago in Reply #327 of the State-named interstate shields thread.  Every BGS that has an I-78 shield on it for that cloverleaf is a state-named I-shield.  I believe those BGS' date back to when I-78 and the PA 33 extension to such was built.
GPS does NOT equal GOD



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