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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Stephane Dumas on October 07, 2018, 01:35:48 PM

Title: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: Stephane Dumas on October 07, 2018, 01:35:48 PM
Looks like the latest Windows 10 updates for October got some glitches.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/problems-with-windows-10-october-2018-update/
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-delay-windows-10-october-2018-update/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/10/05/avoid-windows-10-october-update-until-you-do-one-thing/#50f8272f3e79
Quote
Microsoft's big Windows 10 Update version 1809 is here and it brings a wealth of welcome features like less interruptions and update nags during gaming (something Alienware nailed years ago by the way). It also takes an ambitious step toward making your PC and Android phone best friends. But (isn't there always a "but?") it's also causing a serious problem. One that can't be reversed. If you're not enthusiastic about potentially losing every scrap of data in your user folder such as music, photos and documents, please read on.


Credit: Getty royalty free

This article at ZDNet got my attention due to the particular severity of this update "bug." Granted, there's usually some level of anxiety surrounding every Windows update, but this time around you sincerely need to prepare for the worst. The site stumbled across longtime Windows user Robert Ziko who bemoaned the fact that he lost a whopping 220GB of data as a direct result of the Windows 10 version 1809 update.


Posting on the Microsoft Answers forum he says "I have just updated my windows using the October update (10, version 1809) it deleted all my files of 23 years in amount of 220gb. This is unbelievable, I have been using Microsoft products since 1995 and nothing like that ever happened to me." After it was suggested he roll back the update, Ziko reports that his files are still missing.

"I have lost my work all the files for the last 2 months, due to the upgrade," he says. It's important to note that the documents weren't hanging out in the recycle bin. The data was simply gone.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: CapeCodder on October 19, 2018, 06:43:28 AM
Their last big update before this one has kept causing my laptop to crash. I get a Blue Screen at least three times a week. If I had the money I'd spring for a Mac.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: roadman on October 19, 2018, 09:10:08 AM
Automatic updates are the most idiotic customer-unfriendly thing and should be outlawed.  And I'm still waiting for MS to develop a means to allow us to shut off keyboard commands (or just ditch them completely - ever hear of a MOUSE).  For those of us who type faster than most people, it's an incredible PITA when the computer suddenly does something weird because the outdated code thought we gave it a command.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 19, 2018, 09:25:24 AM
Quote from: roadman on October 19, 2018, 09:10:08 AM
Automatic updates are the most idiotic customer-unfriendly thing and should be outlawed.

Actually, the most idiotic thing will be forcing government to make a law about it.  Everyone wants less government in our lives...until they don't want something then they demand the government intervene! 

Quote from: roadman on October 19, 2018, 09:10:08 AM
And I'm still waiting for MS to develop a means to allow us to shut off keyboard commands (or just ditch them completely - ever hear of a MOUSE).  For those of us who type faster than most people, it's an incredible PITA when the computer suddenly does something weird because the outdated code thought we gave it a command.

I've never had this happen at all.

Keyboard commands are still useful.  If I'm typing I can easily move my fingers to CTRL or ALT for the command, rather than stop to use the mouse.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: ET21 on October 19, 2018, 09:41:57 AM
Funny enough, my parents desktop completely froze after this update. Couldn't launch any program, start menu would freeze. We did a full wipe and made sure to keep the newest update off the list. Since then, it has worked fine ever since.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: jemacedo9 on October 19, 2018, 10:20:35 AM
The update in the OP is the Windows 10 1809 update, which Microsoft has stopped indefinitely until the bugs have been resolved.  There are other Windows 10 updates out there in various stages of rollout.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: paulthemapguy on October 19, 2018, 11:01:18 AM
Those updates deleted the sound software off my girlfriend's computer. She had no sound drivers installed and couldn't hear anything. She had to do a system restore. Windows Update is my least favorite computer virus and it never goes away.

SM-G930P

Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: BamaZeus on October 19, 2018, 11:18:56 AM
It did the same to my mother's laptop.  It caused her audio/speakers to show as not being installed, and she lost control of her mouse as well.  She rolled back the updates, and voila, everything worked perfectly.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: J N Winkler on October 19, 2018, 11:59:46 AM
In regard to Robert Ziko's case, while I have much sympathy for his plight, I have to say I don't understand keeping such a large volume of data in a space that the operating system curates pretty tightly by allowing creation of subfolders ("My Pictures," "My Music," etc.) without user consent and that is involved in several pre-configured junction points that can complicate backup.  My "Documents" folder has just 2 GB in aggregate and the bulk of my working data (including 80 GB worth of signing sheets) is on other logical partitions when it is not actually on physically separate disks.

I think it is definitely worth disabling Windows 10 updates, which is possible with appropriate Registry settings and by disabling the "self-repair" task in Task Scheduler.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: bandit957 on October 19, 2018, 12:08:11 PM
This update was not "stopped indefinitely." Mine just updated yesterday, and it deleted my OpenOffice settings.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: bing101 on October 20, 2018, 12:48:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP62c5ZBlM4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1ELLzILgTg


Yes and Twit did a pundit show all over the Windows issue. Also Now Linux is discussed as an alternative of Windows.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: Scott5114 on October 20, 2018, 02:43:13 PM
I switched to Linux in 2005. As long as you don't have any specialty software that only runs on Windows (e.g. games, or really specific stuff like "casino accounting software"), you'll be fine. Just approach it with the mindset of finding the program that does what you want instead of bringing your programs with you (i.e. don't insist on trying to run Word instead of figuring out how to get LibreOffice to do what you need).
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: kphoger on October 22, 2018, 01:39:43 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 19, 2018, 09:25:24 AM

Quote from: roadman on October 19, 2018, 09:10:08 AM
And I'm still waiting for MS to develop a means to allow us to shut off keyboard commands (or just ditch them completely - ever hear of a MOUSE).  For those of us who type faster than most people, it's an incredible PITA when the computer suddenly does something weird because the outdated code thought we gave it a command.

I've never had this happen at all.

Keyboard commands are still useful.  If I'm typing I can easily move my fingers to CTRL or ALT for the command, rather than stop to use the mouse.

I'm with you.  I do almost everything I can by keyboard alone, only reaching for the mouse when it really does take less time to do so.  I know a bunch of alt-codes for special characters, menu shortcuts in Microsoft programs, keyboard commands for getting to the beginning or end of a word or sentence or row or column...  I even love to use keyboard commands in Excel that are not part of the current version; many of them are still "understood" by Excel, and it just lets you know you're using something outdated.  For example, to change the width of a column in Excel to 15, I simply type  { Alt+O  C  W  1  5  Enter }.  Really fast.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: J N Winkler on October 22, 2018, 02:14:28 PM
Quote from: roadman on October 19, 2018, 09:10:08 AMAnd I'm still waiting for MS to develop a means to allow us to shut off keyboard commands (or just ditch them completely - ever hear of a MOUSE).  For those of us who type faster than most people, it's an incredible PITA when the computer suddenly does something weird because the outdated code thought we gave it a command.

I am fairly fast on a keyboard (probably around 100 wpm), and I am curious as to how it happens that a keyboard command is accidentally triggered.  I personally would have reservations about a feature to deactivate them because on unfamiliar computers or with unfamiliar software, I often depend on the keyboard commands for basic functions (e.g. file save, file close, application close, view zoom) to avoid menu fishing.  The ribbon has been around for over a decade now and I still haven't gotten used to it.

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 20, 2018, 02:43:13 PMJust approach it with the mindset of finding the program that does what you want instead of bringing your programs with you (i.e. don't insist on trying to run Word instead of figuring out how to get LibreOffice to do what you need).

I look at this from the standpoint of data portability.  I try to have everything I work with regularly in either plain text format (ANSI, CP 850, or UTF-8 encoding) or PDF (when formatting matters) so that I am not in the position of having to hunt for special viewers to handle proprietary formats if I change OS.  For this reason I don't use Word except for collaboration, and don't use LibreOffice much for my own writing--I have found LaTeX works well even for the occasional letter, all of the source files are plain text, and the pdflatex command produces very compact PDFs.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: Scott5114 on October 23, 2018, 05:44:26 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on October 22, 2018, 02:14:28 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 20, 2018, 02:43:13 PMJust approach it with the mindset of finding the program that does what you want instead of bringing your programs with you (i.e. don't insist on trying to run Word instead of figuring out how to get LibreOffice to do what you need).

I look at this from the standpoint of data portability.  I try to have everything I work with regularly in either plain text format (ANSI, CP 850, or UTF-8 encoding) or PDF (when formatting matters) so that I am not in the position of having to hunt for special viewers to handle proprietary formats if I change OS.  For this reason I don't use Word except for collaboration, and don't use LibreOffice much for my own writing--I have found LaTeX works well even for the occasional letter, all of the source files are plain text, and the pdflatex command produces very compact PDFs.

I've found the OpenDocument file formats (which LibreOffice defaults to, and which are accepted and saved to by MS Office, the latter with a lot of complaining meant to be a barrier to entry to saving in OpenDocument) to be portable enough that it works just fine interchanging between Windows and Linux. OpenDocument is not a proprietary format and exists as an ISO standard, so theoretically any office program could make a perfect implementation of it. Usually I will only use PDFs if I want to use a nice font that nobody else owns (like Electra, New Caledonia, or something like that).

I've looked at LaTeX before and, while I'm a sucker for a good markup language, specifying anything other than the default Computer Modern fonts on vanilla LaTeX seems to be impossible, or at least very tricky. Thus, I haven't invested much time in learning it. I get the impression that LaTeX is great for the use case of complex, highly structured documents where a premium is put on efficiency in creation over freedom of design. I can respect that, but that approach is not for me. If making design choices was made at least as easy as CSS, I would probably use LaTeX all the time.

Plain UTF-8 text is good, but can be dodgy when transferring files between OSes. The reason is because Windows handles line breaks differently than the other major OSes. In Windows, a line break is encoded as a carriage return (CR) character followed by a line feed (LF) character. On all other major OSes, it's just a LF. (Things were worse back in the day, when pre-OS X Macs encoded them with just a CR.) This is fine going from Windows to Linux, as Linux software just ignores or removes the extraneous CR characters, but Windows software has a tendency to choke on just a bare LF. This can be mitigated by passing the file through a web browser, which must handle files from both Windows IIS and LAMP servers, and therefore has logic for twiddling the newlines to the proper orientation for the target OS.

This also assumes that the target software can handle UTF-8, and doesn't make the disastrous assumption that all incoming text is Windows 1252 ASCII. Again, this is something that you see mostly on the Windows side–Linux software is written with the assumption that it will be called on to handle output from Windows programs that don't know any better and thus often have some form of encoding toggle.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: J N Winkler on October 23, 2018, 06:33:45 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 23, 2018, 05:44:26 PMUsually I will only use PDFs if I want to use a nice font that nobody else owns (like Electra, New Caledonia, or something like that).

I use PDF as an archival medium.  When I write a paper letter, I typically mail the paper copy and retain only a PDF for my records, to preserve searchability and avoid the need to store and handle paper.

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 23, 2018, 05:44:26 PMI've looked at LaTeX before and, while I'm a sucker for a good markup language, specifying anything other than the default Computer Modern fonts on vanilla LaTeX seems to be impossible, or at least very tricky.

It is actually very easy now.  Nothing I have produced in LaTeX recently has used the Computer Modern fonts.  The LaTeX you can access now through the popular cross-platform distributions such as MikTeX is not your father's LaTeX.  Back in the late nineties, when I first dabbled with TeX, it took a massive amount of knowledge just to get started--in motoring terms it was like not being able to go forward without double-clutching.  Now you can just put it in D and go.

As an example, here is the preamble for a letter I wrote a few years ago:

\documentclass[letterpaper,portrait,12pt]{letter}
\usepackage[latin1]{inputenc}
\usepackage{calc}
\usepackage{setspace}
\usepackage{fixltx2e}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\usepackage{multicol}
\usepackage{parskip}
\usepackage[normalem]{ulem}
%% Please revise the following command, if your babel
%% package does not support English (UK)
\usepackage[english]{babel}
\usepackage{color}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\renewcommand{\rmdefault}{ptm}
\usepackage{times}
\setlength{\parskip}{0.42cm}
\usepackage[top=1in, bottom=1in, left=1.25in, right=1.25in]{geometry}


The "times" package results in the Times Roman type family being used instead of Computer Modern.

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 23, 2018, 05:44:26 PMI get the impression that LaTeX is great for the use case of complex, highly structured documents where a premium is put on efficiency in creation over freedom of design. I can respect that, but that approach is not for me. If making design choices was made at least as easy as CSS, I would probably use LaTeX all the time.

I would say that LaTeX is now about as easy as CSS.  The appeal for me is that it offers much better control over reflowability when graphics and complex text objects like tables are involved.  There are enough advantages independent of its traditional selling point of rich structure that I am happy using it casually, not just for scholarly books.  I've found Wikibooks' LaTeX guide (https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX) a helpful starting point.

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 23, 2018, 05:44:26 PMPlain UTF-8 text is good, but can be dodgy when transferring files between OSes. The reason is because Windows handles line breaks differently than the other major OSes. In Windows, a line break is encoded as a carriage return (CR) character followed by a line feed (LF) character. On all other major OSes, it's just a LF. (Things were worse back in the day, when pre-OS X Macs encoded them with just a CR.) This is fine going from Windows to Linux, as Linux software just ignores or removes the extraneous CR characters, but Windows software has a tendency to choke on just a bare LF. This can be mitigated by passing the file through a web browser, which must handle files from both Windows IIS and LAMP servers, and therefore has logic for twiddling the newlines to the proper orientation for the target OS.

In practice, I find the CR/LF issue (which I do occasionally encounter in Notepad with *nix-born text files) not troublesome, since the tools I have that go line by line are agnostic as to line break convention.  A more serious worry (as you allude to) is dealing with extra-ASCII encodings.  Windows will work just fine with Unicode because NTFS has Unicode filenames built in, but working with them at the NT batch command line entails a codepage change (850 to 65001), Notepad drops a byte order mark in files it saves in UTF-8 which has to be taken into account in text processing (I've had to use a Windows port of sed to strip out the BOM when it causes problems), and plenty of command-line apps like findstr, pdftk, etc. hate extended characters.  Collecting 40 GB and 60 GB worth of highway construction plans from Russia and China respectively has given me a crash course in dealing with UTF-8.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: kphoger on October 23, 2018, 07:08:15 PM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on October 19, 2018, 10:20:35 AM
The update in the OP is the Windows 10 1809 update, which Microsoft has stopped indefinitely until the bugs have been resolved.  There are other Windows 10 updates out there in various stages of rollout.

Quote from: bandit957 on October 19, 2018, 12:08:11 PM
This update was not "stopped indefinitely." Mine just updated yesterday, and it deleted my OpenOffice settings.

Are you certain it was update 1809?
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: jemacedo9 on October 23, 2018, 07:16:48 PM
https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-october-2018-update-microsoft-releases-fix-for-data-deletion-bug/ (https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-october-2018-update-microsoft-releases-fix-for-data-deletion-bug/)

QuoteAfter taking the unprecedented step of halting the rollout of the latest Windows feature update only days after its public release, Microsoft announced today that it has isolated the cause of the bug and is rolling out a fix to members of the Windows Insider Program.  (article dated 10/9)
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: bing101 on October 24, 2018, 08:11:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2bhic9WhPs


Another Update on the Windows Fiasco.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: bing101 on October 24, 2018, 09:40:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoWqKsIP-wQ
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: bing101 on November 15, 2018, 09:20:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2NKXUwsJKk&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: MNHighwayMan on December 13, 2018, 10:59:31 AM
Quote from: bing101 on December 13, 2018, 10:57:00 AM

TL;DW?

And what does this have to do with the update glitches?
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: D-Dey65 on February 20, 2019, 01:03:52 PM
Last May, they forced an update on me that they were trying to force me into during the previous months. As a result, I lost all the programs and functions on my PC, couldn't log onto any of the websites I'm on, including this one, permanently blocked Adobe Acrobat, and killed my ability to make screencaps from iTunes movies and TV shows. To make matters worse, they never let me set my PC to a recovery point before the update. iTunes thought I was operating from another PC... AGAIN! I talked to support teams from Microsoft and they sent me new programs that didn't do shit for me. They added a bunch of useless programs that were supposed to help me get around the problems I was having but none of them worked. Finally they decided to revert some aspects of their updates, but I still haven't recovered the ability to do everything I used to do. I still get "Error 23132" if I play my iTunes videos in any other format, and I still can't upgrade Adobe.

Apple wasn't so helpful either. I told them what was going on, and they insisted that their files weren't designed to be played in other formats, but that's not true, because I was able to do so until Microsoft's Spring 2018 blunder. BTW, I can play their audio files in other formats without any problems.


Now Microsoft wants to force another shitty update on the people, and I can't find a way to get out of it. And don't tell me to get Linux, or any other browser.

Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: wxfree on February 21, 2019, 02:49:42 AM
I've had only minor problems with the updates.  One that recurs is that some settings return to default values after updates.  One that I notice is the disappearing scroll bar.  I don't know who thought it was a good idea to make the scroll bar usable only after you put the cursor inside a microscopic width, but I hate it.  After each update I have to turn that feature off again.

The last update messed up the audio so that the speakers didn't work.  I restarted and the audio came back, and that worked on the administrator account, but on the user account the audio was gone.  I had to uninstall the audio driver so it would automatically reinstall and now it seems to be fixed.

I consider debit cards to be "not ready for prime time."  I've seen people try to use them and not be able to complete their purchases too many times.  I prefer to use cash, or at least to have enough cash to pay for my purchase in case my card fails.  These frequent and unavoidable updates seem to be another example of technology being widely implemented before it was ready for the spotlight.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: SectorZ on February 21, 2019, 10:27:41 AM
I did the update a few weeks ago. Amazingly, no bugs. More amazingly, a few minor bugs before the update were gone (very minor - but nonetheless now gone).
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 01, 2019, 08:44:09 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on February 21, 2019, 10:27:41 AM
I did the update a few weeks ago. Amazingly, no bugs. More amazingly, a few minor bugs before the update were gone (very minor - but nonetheless now gone).
Were you able to restore any apps? Because it looks like I'm going to have to do that.

Oh, well. If I can't log back onto here or any other website, you can blame it on Microsoft.


Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: SectorZ on March 02, 2019, 09:31:35 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on March 01, 2019, 08:44:09 PM
Quote from: SectorZ on February 21, 2019, 10:27:41 AM
I did the update a few weeks ago. Amazingly, no bugs. More amazingly, a few minor bugs before the update were gone (very minor - but nonetheless now gone).
Were you able to restore any apps? Because it looks like I'm going to have to do that.

Oh, well. If I can't log back onto here or any other website, you can blame it on Microsoft.

I didn't lose any apps if that's what you're asking. Anything I had still works fine, and a tiny bug in Excel went away with the update.

I feel your pain though. These massive updates are like digital Russian Roulette. They need to dial them back to once a year at this point. There is such little change per update for such a massive hassle. Personally I've lucked out with all the updates but that doesn't make me a fan of them.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: Rothman on March 02, 2019, 12:41:09 PM
BSOD errors led me to discover that the October update had never been installed.

Not sure what's worse now.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: Scott5114 on March 03, 2019, 04:10:00 AM
Meanwhile, on Linux, we do major .0 version updates every six months and it's trivial.

For Windows 11, Microsoft needs to scrap everything, every DLL, every library, every API, start fresh, and incorporate it all into a RPM/DEB style package manager. That way if some app requires kadfklasdvfasd.dll v.1.1.3 and another requires v.1.0.0 then the conflict can get resolved before you start overwriting files. Bonus points if you can upgrade the OS kernel without requiring a reboot (of course you have to reboot to switch to the new kernel, but Linux allows you to keep executing the old kernel until you choose to initiate the reboot yourself).
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: vdeane on March 03, 2019, 08:10:36 PM
It's amazing how much easier updates are on Linux.  I can do a full check/download/install in far less time than it takes Windows to notice there are even any updates.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 06, 2019, 08:50:27 PM
I'm still trying to sign back onto everything, but I still have to tell Dell about my defective monitor.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: D-Dey65 on March 13, 2019, 01:41:09 AM
Well, this update has proven to cause some of the same problems, and the only difference is I was able to save many of my files.  Unfortunately, many of my passwords are missing, and so are a lot of my programs. So once again, fuck you, Microsoft!

Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: kphoger on March 13, 2019, 02:03:34 PM
A Windows 10 update a while ago tanked my internet on my work computer.  Whenever I lock down the VPN for one of our partners' applications, I have no more access to either the internet or even the applications I get to by way of the VPN.  My PC says I still have internet access, but I don't.  I manually uninstalled a few updates and then it worked for a while.

Then, after it stopped working again later, I tried to go back to a previous build of Windows 10.  But I couldn't do that, because Windows 10 only offers that as an option if it's within ten days of the update, and it took longer than 10 days before my work-around stopped working-around.  So then I began manually updating all updates every couple of days, but that only worked for about a week.  Now I simply have no work-around at all, and I had to dust off an old laptop to use for that instead.  My work computer now has two computers, three monitors, two keyboards, and two mice.  To transfer files from the laptop (with VPN access) to the desktop (where I do all my real work), I attach them to an e-mail draft on the laptop and then drag them off the e-mail on my desktop to whatever folder they need to go in.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: J N Winkler on March 13, 2019, 02:51:10 PM
The lone Windows 10 PC in the house often has difficulty connecting to its assigned wifi network when all other devices--smartphones, tablets, PCs--have no trouble at all.  The only fix we have found is to power-cycle the router, which inconveniences multiple devices to accommodate just one.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: kphoger on March 13, 2019, 04:34:39 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 13, 2019, 02:51:10 PM
The lone Windows 10 PC in the house often has difficulty connecting to its assigned wifi network when all other devices--smartphones, tablets, PCs--have no trouble at all.  The only fix we have found is to power-cycle the router, which inconveniences multiple devices to accommodate just one.

Do you have a dual-band router?  If so, I would recommend assigning your PC to the 5 GHz band while leaving most of the other devices assigned to the 2.4 GHz band–assuming it's not across the house from your router.  If that doesn't work, you could try hard-wiring it via ethernet.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: J N Winkler on March 13, 2019, 04:43:13 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 13, 2019, 04:34:39 PMDo you have a dual-band router?  If so, I would recommend assigning your PC to the 5 GHz band while leaving most of the other devices assigned to the 2.4 GHz band–assuming it's not across the house from your router.  If that doesn't work, you could try hard-wiring it via ethernet.

Yes, we have dual-band with spectrum allocation, and I have had a hard line to my own PC (still running Windows 7) for years.  The problem PC (only one in the house with Windows 10) is single-band (2.4 GHz only) and is used on wifi networks outside the home, so the inconvenience of plugging it back in and choosing an Ethernet connection every time it comes home would be about the same as power-cycling the router.

I confess my previous post was a plus-one about Microsoft breaking stuff that used to work quite well, and still does with previous versions of the OS.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: kphoger on March 13, 2019, 04:51:56 PM
Does it also have problems connecting to Wi-Fi networks outside your home?
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: J N Winkler on March 13, 2019, 05:46:34 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 13, 2019, 04:51:56 PMDoes it also have problems connecting to Wi-Fi networks outside your home?

It is used mainly with an office network and usually doesn't have problems connecting.  The router at home is a consumer-grade Linksys E4200 purchased in 2012.  One possible fix I haven't tried yet is to soft-reboot the router (possible through the Web interface) rather than power-cycling it.

The problem occurs at irregular intervals and does not crop up every time the PC comes home and reconnects.  It takes the form of an attempt to associate with the router that never ends.  I have wondered if there is some sort of cache management issue on the router end that the other devices handle just fine but Windows 10 does not.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: kphoger on March 13, 2019, 10:01:38 PM
Hmmm, I wonder if it's not Windows 10—related at all.  Might be the PC or the router.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: J N Winkler on March 14, 2019, 12:07:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 13, 2019, 10:01:38 PMHmmm, I wonder if it's not Windows 10—related at all.  Might be the PC or the router.

It is a case where two devices are expected to communicate with each other and fail to do so.  I am discinlined to blame the router when every other device connects to it without difficulty.  I do see how it could be an issue related to the wireless adapter or its driver.

On my own Windows 7 PC, I have discovered that Windows will offer driver updates that have the effect of breaking existing functionality.  A few months ago, Windows Update offered (as an optional update) a new driver for the USB hub, which was working just fine.  When I installed it, the hub stopped working--would not see any devices plugged into it, etc.  I rolled back to the older driver and the sun came out, birds started singing, etc.

Unrefusable updates are the main reason I prevented my Windows 7 PC from upgrading to Windows 10, and I feel I dodged a bullet by doing so.  The problem PC had Windows 10 as a preload.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: kphoger on March 14, 2019, 02:03:42 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 14, 2019, 12:07:47 PM
Unrefusable updates

Oh man, I got so tired of going through the process of uninstalling updates line by line, then restarting the PC, and it automatically installing updates upon restart.   :banghead:
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: J N Winkler on March 14, 2019, 04:00:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 14, 2019, 02:03:42 PMOh man, I got so tired of going through the process of uninstalling updates line by line, then restarting the PC, and it automatically installing updates upon restart.   :banghead:

There are apparently workarounds for blocking Windows 10 updates, but it is a bit of a defensive-offensive seesaw.  I have heard of attempts to block updates by adding the update servers to the HOSTS file failing because there are apparently pre-configured system tasks which run automatically every so often to check that the local Windows 10 installation meets standards for a "current" copy of Windows 10.

My own strategy is to sit on Patch Tuesday updates for at least a week before installing them, just to give time for news reports of big problems to reach me before I set my own system on fire.  For my relatively low-risk use pattern, the risk of losing functionality I use every day is greater than falling victim through an unpatched zero-day vulnerability.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: D-Dey65 on August 29, 2019, 01:27:19 PM
I just received yet another notification telling me I have to update by November 2019.

Crappy Birthday To Me!

Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: bandit957 on August 29, 2019, 01:52:08 PM
The update that came out a few weeks ago disables Winamp to comply with the record industry's nonstop whines about "piracy."

So I went back to the previous update. Windows better not foist the recent bad update on me.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: FightingIrish on August 29, 2019, 04:53:43 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on August 29, 2019, 01:52:08 PM
The update that came out a few weeks ago disables Winamp to comply with the record industry's nonstop whines about "piracy."

So I went back to the previous update. Windows better not foist the recent bad update on me.
I updated Windows 10 a week ago and Winamp works fine. I'm running their current Beta.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: 1995hoo on August 29, 2019, 05:46:17 PM
I don't have Windows 10. A few years ago when Windows 7 attempted to install the "upgrade," it bricked my PC–went into an endless loop that kept leading to a BSOD, though I was eventually able to boot to a DOS prompt. Wound up going to Micro Center for a new boot drive and a new copy of Windows 7 and rebuilt everything (didn't lose any data, at least).

With the phaseout of Windows 7 support this winter, I'm trying to decide what to do, and more importantly in some ways what to do about my mom's PC since I'm her tech support (she lives about 15 minutes away). I'd consider a Mac, but the cost is off-putting. Odds are I'll wind up with a Windows 10 PC and I'll get her something identical to whatever I get myself because that makes it easier for me when she calls or e-mails with a question. I'm very wary of Windows 10, though, and all the comments in this thread just reinforce that opinion. But I'm not sure I want to bother with alternatives like Linux because of convenience reasons to do with work compatibility and the like.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: bandit957 on August 29, 2019, 05:53:47 PM
Windows 10 would be pretty good if it wasn't for the awful new update - and its foisting of updates that take hours to install.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: D-Dey65 on August 29, 2019, 08:45:35 PM
I put the PC on sleep in order to go to a car show several hours ago, and I just got back to find out the forced it on me anyway. And so far, I don't think I've lost any passwords, or any of my files.

:-/
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: J N Winkler on August 29, 2019, 10:01:50 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 29, 2019, 05:46:17 PMWith the phaseout of Windows 7 support this winter, I'm trying to decide what to do, and more importantly in some ways what to do about my mom's PC since I'm her tech support (she lives about 15 minutes away). I'd consider a Mac, but the cost is off-putting. Odds are I'll wind up with a Windows 10 PC and I'll get her something identical to whatever I get myself because that makes it easier for me when she calls or e-mails with a question. I'm very wary of Windows 10, though, and all the comments in this thread just reinforce that opinion. But I'm not sure I want to bother with alternatives like Linux because of convenience reasons to do with work compatibility and the like.

I'm planning to continue using Windows 7 on my current PC beyond the end of support.  I have an old laptop that still uses XP even though support ended five years ago.  Admittedly, my Web browsing habits are low-risk and I use an ad-blocking HOSTS file.

Windows 10 has bedded in by now, so if circumstances forced me to accept it on a commodity PC, I would probably adjust, using some form of a switchable configuration to give myself control over timing of updates.  It's just that I hate the permissions model in 8+ (having to open an Administrator window to do anything remotely useful, for example) and the tiles.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: Scott5114 on August 30, 2019, 03:14:03 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 29, 2019, 05:46:17 PM
But I'm not sure I want to bother with alternatives like Linux because of convenience reasons to do with work compatibility and the like.

I would suggest making a bootable CD of one of the major distros like Fedora or Ubuntu and trying to live out of it for a while to see how many compromises you have to make and whether it's viable. Compatibility is really not as bad as you might think, as long as you are willing to meet Linux halfway–that is, unless you have some reason you have to use a particular program, you can find a Linux-friendly replacement that can edit the same files. So while trying to running the latest Excel is probably going to cause problems, you can easily find a program that edits .xlsx files.

The real killer is finding device drivers for things like the scanner portion of all-in-one scanner/printer devices, which is not always guaranteed, so it's worth testing before committing to a change.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: tolbs17 on August 30, 2019, 07:41:45 AM
They should stop trying to update things i guess
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: 1995hoo on August 30, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 30, 2019, 03:14:03 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 29, 2019, 05:46:17 PM
But I'm not sure I want to bother with alternatives like Linux because of convenience reasons to do with work compatibility and the like.

I would suggest making a bootable CD of one of the major distros like Fedora or Ubuntu and trying to live out of it for a while to see how many compromises you have to make and whether it's viable. Compatibility is really not as bad as you might think, as long as you are willing to meet Linux halfway–that is, unless you have some reason you have to use a particular program, you can find a Linux-friendly replacement that can edit the same files. So while trying to running the latest Excel is probably going to cause problems, you can easily find a program that edits .xlsx files.

The real killer is finding device drivers for things like the scanner portion of all-in-one scanner/printer devices, which is not always guaranteed, so it's worth testing before committing to a change.

All of that might well work for me, depending of course on whether TurboTax is available for those alternate OSes, but what would you suggest I do for my mom? I can tell you with near-certainty that she probably wouldn't even be interested in adjusting to a Mac. Hers has to be a very straightforward setup; I also have to find out from her whether she still uses word processing software more than every once in a great while (reason: her current PC has WordPerfect for two reasons–she's comfortable with it because she's used various versions going back to 4.2 for DOS in 1987, and my father's office at the US government used WordPerfect at least until he retired–so if she wants to keep WordPerfect on the new one, that may constrain things). 
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: J N Winkler on August 30, 2019, 05:27:33 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 30, 2019, 04:03:32 PMHers has to be a very straightforward setup; I also have to find out from her whether she still uses word processing software more than every once in a great while (reason: her current PC has WordPerfect for two reasons–she's comfortable with it because she's used various versions going back to 4.2 for DOS in 1987, and my father's office at the US government used WordPerfect at least until he retired–so if she wants to keep WordPerfect on the new one, that may constrain things).

I have done enough work providing tech support to members of my immediate family to realize that working around limited computer literacy is a human factors problem, not a technical problem.  WordPerfect is actually still developed (current version is X9, which came out about 15 months ago), but I suspect it would be more attractive to your mother to stick with her current version because she is familiar with the UI.  It will likely install, but may require some form of a compatibility mode if it is old enough.  This can be a tossup--on my current computer (purchased 2011), CorelDRAW version 9 (purchased 2000) would install but Microsoft Office SR-1 Professional (also purchased 2000) would not (I tried compatibility mode).

There is no installable version of TurboTax for Linux, though the online version can be used through a Web browser.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: D-Dey65 on September 28, 2019, 01:14:12 AM
Earlier this month, I got a pop-up window forcing another update on me, which gave me the option of updating it at the time, or a later date, or a third option, I forget what it was. But they weren't letting me get out of this, and so I randomly chose September 30, 2019.


That's two days from now, and I'm not going to have time to clear everything from my PC before they force this on me. I have to find a way to stop this one from being carried out too.


Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: KeithE4Phx on September 28, 2019, 01:29:33 AM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 28, 2019, 01:14:12 AM
Earlier this month, I got a pop-up window forcing another update on me, which gave me the option of updating it at the time, or a later date, or a third option, I forget what it was. But they weren't letting me get out of this, and so I randomly chose September 30, 2019.


That's two days from now, and I'm not going to have time to clear everything from my PC before they force this on me. I have to find a way to stop this one from being carried out too.

https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php  Works every time.  :)
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: KeithE4Phx on September 28, 2019, 01:32:43 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 30, 2019, 05:27:33 PM
There is no installable version of TurboTax for Linux, though the online version can be used through a Web browser.

I've been using the online version of TaxAct for almost 15 years with no issues under Linux.  I would have to guess that TurboTax online would work just as well.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: Scott5114 on September 28, 2019, 03:12:28 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 30, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 30, 2019, 03:14:03 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on August 29, 2019, 05:46:17 PM
But I'm not sure I want to bother with alternatives like Linux because of convenience reasons to do with work compatibility and the like.

I would suggest making a bootable CD of one of the major distros like Fedora or Ubuntu and trying to live out of it for a while to see how many compromises you have to make and whether it's viable. Compatibility is really not as bad as you might think, as long as you are willing to meet Linux halfway–that is, unless you have some reason you have to use a particular program, you can find a Linux-friendly replacement that can edit the same files. So while trying to running the latest Excel is probably going to cause problems, you can easily find a program that edits .xlsx files.

The real killer is finding device drivers for things like the scanner portion of all-in-one scanner/printer devices, which is not always guaranteed, so it's worth testing before committing to a change.

All of that might well work for me, depending of course on whether TurboTax is available for those alternate OSes, but what would you suggest I do for my mom?

I dealt with this problem with my family members when I started to become the de facto unpaid IT guy by very firmly establishing that if I am to be  the sysadmin for them, they will have to use the software that I am comfortable with maintaining. If they didn't like the software environment I was providing, they could learn how to maintain their preferred software themselves, or find someone else to do it.

They found someone else to do it. Your mileage may vary on if this is considered a good outcome or not; for me, it was.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: D-Dey65 on May 31, 2020, 02:20:20 PM
I was going to start a new thread on the May 2020 Windows 10 Update glitches, using this link and others as a reference, but for some stupid reason my PC won't let me save links and post them anywhere.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: SectorZ on May 31, 2020, 07:29:48 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on May 31, 2020, 02:20:20 PM
I was going to start a new thread on the May 2020 Windows 10 Update glitches, using this link and others as a reference, but for some stupid reason my PC won't let me save links and post them anywhere.

Is it out already? If so, thanks for the warning.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: Scott5114 on June 01, 2020, 04:38:19 AM
My workplace applied some sort of Windows 10 update when we were closed for quarantine. Notepad has been patched to make Ctrl-Backspace actually delete the last word instead of inserting some kind of control character. About time.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: okc1 on June 01, 2020, 08:23:06 AM
Is Version 1909 the latest? Mine updated about 2 weeks ago, installing the Chrome-like Edge.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: US71 on June 02, 2020, 04:56:29 PM
I try to open a website and another one opens instead.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: Route66Fan on June 06, 2020, 07:39:04 AM
Quote from: okc1 on June 01, 2020, 08:23:06 AM
Is Version 1909 the latest? Mine updated about 2 weeks ago, installing the Chrome-like Edge.
The current version is 2004, released on May 27, 2020.
Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: D-Dey65 on June 17, 2020, 10:44:44 PM
You know I've been struggling to keep the update away for so long I may just let it go tonight (weirdly enough Microsoft set yesterday for the date). If I get cut off from the AA Roads forum, at least I have my password in storage so I can get back on. Too bad I can't say the same for some of the other sites I'm signed onto.

Title: Re: Windows 10 october update glitches
Post by: vdeane on June 18, 2020, 02:05:23 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on June 17, 2020, 10:44:44 PM
You know I've been struggling to keep the update away for so long I may just let it go tonight (weirdly enough Microsoft set yesterday for the date). If I get cut off from the AA Roads forum, at least I have my password in storage so I can get back on. Too bad I can't say the same for some of the other sites I'm signed onto.


I've heard that USB printers now only work if the printer was turned on when Windows was last booted up and that some users lost printing capability (even to a PDF) altogether.

Very glad I don't deal with Windows 10 outside of work.  These problems seem to keep happening more and more often.