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Author Topic: Future of I-72 in Missouri?  (Read 79395 times)

sprjus4

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #125 on: March 20, 2022, 05:58:02 PM »

^ I still do not understand Missouri's reluctance in increasing the speed limit along US-36 from 65 mph to 70 mph for most of the route. It's comparable to other 70 mph routes in the state that are non-limited-access, four lane divided, and would allow it to have the exact same speed limit as I-70, making it a more attractive option.
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Revive 755

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #126 on: March 20, 2022, 10:05:28 PM »

^ Missouri just doesn't seem to like going to 70 on many expressways.  US 60 east of Poplar Bluff certainly ought to be 70 - especially east of Dexter - but is only 65.

I seem to recall reading some of the expressways in Missouri were posted at 70 to avoid having the legislature set the speed limits.
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abqtraveler

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #127 on: March 21, 2022, 07:10:11 AM »

^ I still do not understand Missouri's reluctance in increasing the speed limit along US-36 from 65 mph to 70 mph for most of the route. It's comparable to other 70 mph routes in the state that are non-limited-access, four lane divided, and would allow it to have the exact same speed limit as I-70, making it a more attractive option.
It might be a matter of what's written into law in Missouri. Speed limits in many states are assigned to different road categories by law. Out here in New Mexico, for example, state law allows for a maximum speed limit of 75 mph on freeways and certain divided highways that meet specified criteria, while the law requires a lower limit for other divided highways that don't qualify for the 75 mph limit; 40 mph on urban arterials; 25 mph in residential zones, and so-on.  Thus, the state DOT doesn't have a whole lot of say in posting a higher limit than what's prescribed by law. If they want to post a road at a higher limit, they would need the state legislature to approve a change to the speed law allowing for the higher speed limit on that road.

I don't know a whole lot about Missouri's traffic laws and how they relate to speed limits, but I would wager a guess that allowing a higher speed limit on non-limited access divided highways would require approval from the state legislature, not just the DOT performing engineering studies and changing out speed limit signs.
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2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

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Interstate Carl

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #128 on: March 21, 2023, 04:49:16 PM »

From what I have seen, several sections of US 36 across Missouri (especially from Macon to Hannibal) hint at a possible expansion of I-72 in the future, but nothing has been announced/confirmed yet. Most of the route that could be extended (sooner than later) is between New Cambria and Hannibal. Of the roughly 157 miles between Hannibal and Cameron (the future western terminus, based on Exit 157 in Hannibal), about 41 miles are actually at Interstate standards, about 26% of the route. However, there are many glaring issues keeping MoDOT from extending 72.

Issues with 36 (as of right now):
(1) There are a metric TON of county roads and/or driveways that connect back to 36. Most of these have long enough driveways to the point where they could be connected back to outer roads at some point, but there are a few houses/businesses, such as the Eagle's Nest Café south of Meadville, that lie right next to the highway. These are all over the highway but are especially bad between Chillicothe and Brookfield. These would either need to be demolished, or (the more likely option) 36 needs to have its original road destroyed and repaved. :meh:
(2) The aforementioned "roller-coaster" highways. When 36 was being constructed to 4-lane divided standards, the original route just had extra lanes added to make it divided. This means the original, non-interstate-standard road still exists in some parts. These would have to be rebuilt.
(3) About 4 miles of 36 between Macon and Clarence need outer shoulder expansion on the westbound side. The shoulder is not wide enough to be at interstate standards.
(4) 36 between Clarence and Monroe City parallels a railroad, which could make construction of required interchanges nearly impossible (assuming MoDOT is unwilling to repave 36 to make room for new interchanges).

Pros of Extending 72 to Cameron:
- Would relieve traffic off of Interstate 70 between Kansas City and Saint Louis. Seriously, this route is usually very busy, and I think that merely signing 36 as Interstate 72 would bring a surprising amount of new traffic to the road.
- As cited by the city of Hannibal, 72 being extended would bring tourism and economic benefits to all major cities on the route (Cameron, Hamilton, Chillicothe, Brookfield, Macon, Shelbina, Monroe City, and obviously, Hannibal).
- The intersections on the route would be destroyed, preventing (or at least decreasing) the number of potential accidents that may occur as a result of 36 being at 65MPH.
- Speaking of speed limits, 36 would see an increase from 65 to 70MPH.
- Potential recognition of the Chicago-Kansas City Expressway, a route that, from what I have seen, goes largely unrecognized (with the exception of road geeks that of course know about it).

Cons of Extending 72 to Cameron:
- This would be a somewhat costly project. Missouri doesn't seem to be able to provide much of a Transportation budget (our roads SUCK  :banghead:)
- This would take a lot of land from farmers, who likely won't be happy about not only their loss of land, but loss of direct access to a route that runs directly in front of their house.
- Most people would see this to be useless and a waste of money, considering Missouri has far more important matters to deal with.

I think if Missouri does extend Interstate 72 at some point, it will be slowly, and probably in parts. 72 would probably firstly see expansion to the US 24 exit south of Palmyra. From there, it would likely be slowly expanded toward Shelbina and Macon. From here, it would slowly be expanded west to Cameron over time. As much as myself and (most of) you all would like to see this route, the sad truth is that it is highly unlikely that MoDOT expands it anytime soon. It would take a huge event (such as I-70 being tolled) for them to expand. Although, if they do expand 72, it would be really nice to finally have a direct route from Kansas City to western Illinois.  :biggrin:
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Interstates Traveled (Partial & Complete): I-29, I-35, I-39, I-40, I-44, I-49, I-55, I-57, I-64, I-65, I-68, I-70, I-72, I-74, I-77, I-81, I-90, I-95

The Ghostbuster

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #129 on: March 21, 2023, 04:59:32 PM »

Maybe Exit 157 should have been numbered Exit 191 (based on the mileage of US 36). That way, Interstate 72 (present and future) could end in Hannibal, Cameron, or St. Joseph. Of course, US 36 would have to be up to freeway (and Interstate) standards before the 72 designation could be extended westward.
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Interstate Carl

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #130 on: March 21, 2023, 06:08:59 PM »

It's possible but not likely. Would be cool to see, but I don't think there are any interchanges on 36 between St. Joseph and Cameron, so it would add a significant cost to the upgrade.
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Interstates Traveled (Partial & Complete): I-29, I-35, I-39, I-40, I-44, I-49, I-55, I-57, I-64, I-65, I-68, I-70, I-72, I-74, I-77, I-81, I-90, I-95

Henry

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #131 on: March 21, 2023, 09:58:44 PM »

My guess is that this won't become MODOT's main focus point until I-57 is completed to AR, in conjunction with that state's completion of its own sections. And even then, given the slow progress on I-57, many of us will not live to see I-72's extension across the state (even if it only reaches Cameron instead of St. Joseph) become a reality.
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sprjus4

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #132 on: March 21, 2023, 10:00:37 PM »

IMO, Missouri’s priority needs to be widening I-70 to 6 lanes between St. Louis and Kansas City.
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skluth

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #133 on: March 22, 2023, 10:58:02 AM »

(2) The aforementioned "roller-coaster" highways. When 36 was being constructed to 4-lane divided standards, the original route just had extra lanes added to make it divided. This means the original, non-interstate-standard road still exists in some parts. These would have to be rebuilt.

I've been on several interstates where the older side retains a roller-coaster appearance while the newer side is much smoother. I don't see that as an issue.

I agree with the others that I-57 and a six-lane I-70 are both higher priorities for MODOT over a "good enough" US 36 becoming I-72. I'd say improving US 50 and US 63 to four lanes across Missouri would also be higher priorities than a cross-state I-72 at this point. Especially with most of Missouri's northern counties stagnant or shrinking in the last census.
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MikieTimT

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #134 on: March 22, 2023, 11:00:40 AM »

IMO, Missouri’s priority needs to be widening I-70 to 6 lanes between St. Louis and Kansas City.

I-44 would like to have a word...
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sprjus4

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #135 on: March 22, 2023, 11:56:42 AM »

IMO, Missouri’s priority needs to be widening I-70 to 6 lanes between St. Louis and Kansas City.

I-44 would like to have a word...
That route too.

Bottom line - I-44 and I-70 widenings are higher priorities, along with completion of I-57 (at least the two lane portion south of Poplar Bluff - the US-60 portion is 4 lanes divided / limited access (with intersections) and is less a priority, but should be complete at some point for basic continuity of the I-57 system)

As far as US-36 / “I-72” , I feel like eliminating all of the traffic signals (if there are any along the route?) and raising the speed limit to 70 mph consistently would be adequate. It would function as an interstate highway with the same speed limit, just with less traffic and intersections. As intersections and access control become problematic, they could be addressed.

But being a high value alternative route to the clogged I-70, bumping the speed limit to match that of I-70 (70 mph), and providing free-flow would make it more attractive, IMO. Honestly, with a 70 mph posted, one could more realistically maintain 5-10 mph over more consistently on US-36 than on I-70 due to the sheer amount of trucks and micropassing.

There is precedent for 70 mph speed limits on four lane divided highways in Missouri… a number of routes already boast this limit. I don’t see why it can’t be applied to not only US-36, but also US-60, US-67, etc. It would provide equal travel speeds to the interstates, and potentially help divert some traffic.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 11:58:59 AM by sprjus4 »
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kphoger

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #136 on: March 22, 2023, 12:10:58 PM »

As far as US-36 / “I-72” , I feel like eliminating all of the traffic signals (if there are any along the route?) ...

AFAIK, the only stoplights between I-35 and I-72 are the ones in Cameron itself.
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Interstate Carl

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #137 on: March 22, 2023, 12:35:00 PM »

The only three stoplights between I-35 and Hannibal are the two on the 35 exit, and the one at Bob F. Griffin Road.
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Interstates Traveled (Partial & Complete): I-29, I-35, I-39, I-40, I-44, I-49, I-55, I-57, I-64, I-65, I-68, I-70, I-72, I-74, I-77, I-81, I-90, I-95

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #138 on: March 22, 2023, 11:12:07 PM »

I think I posted on this earlier.

I asked my cousin who had to drive back to Indianapolis from western Missouri if he would take US36/I-72 through instead of I-70.

He said the average speed on US36 all the way across was 70+ mph with a few minor slowdowns here and there, but many people were driving faster.

I asked him if there would be any benefit of going to an interstate format and he said "practicially none".

So I posit back to this audience, other than some noted safety and geometry issues in certain places, time to distance does *not* appear to be an issue with US36 across Missouri, even with the posted limits.

Why would MoDOT spend the money?
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mvak36

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #139 on: March 23, 2023, 10:04:20 AM »

I think I posted on this earlier.

I asked my cousin who had to drive back to Indianapolis from western Missouri if he would take US36/I-72 through instead of I-70.

He said the average speed on US36 all the way across was 70+ mph with a few minor slowdowns here and there, but many people were driving faster.

I asked him if there would be any benefit of going to an interstate format and he said "practicially none".

So I posit back to this audience, other than some noted safety and geometry issues in certain places, time to distance does *not* appear to be an issue with US36 across Missouri, even with the posted limits.

Why would MoDOT spend the money?

I wouldn't mind if it's an interstate but it works fine in its current configuration.

The only thing I wish they would fix, if they had the money, would be the eastbound carriageway at this location so that it goes over the railroad. It's more of a pet peeve of mine than anything. It's not needed right away, if ever.
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hbelkins

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #140 on: March 23, 2023, 11:28:43 AM »

Once again ... not everything needs to be a freeway (interstate) to function as a good through route.
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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #141 on: March 23, 2023, 02:47:22 PM »

So I posit back to this audience, other than some noted safety and geometry issues in certain places, time to distance does *not* appear to be an issue with US36 across Missouri, even with the posted limits.

Why would MoDOT spend the money?

So they can finally take down the CKC signs?   :-P
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edwaleni

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #142 on: March 23, 2023, 10:07:51 PM »

So I posit back to this audience, other than some noted safety and geometry issues in certain places, time to distance does *not* appear to be an issue with US36 across Missouri, even with the posted limits.

Why would MoDOT spend the money?

So they can finally take down the CKC signs?   :-P

Probably could. I asked a few truckers about 10-12 years ago if they had a load to take from CHI to KC would they use the CKC?

Definitely not scientific or universal but in my brief survey they all said no.

I asked why, something about "no company service or relief on the route".

I took that to mean if they had a breakdown, a mass tire event, or a driver problem, the route was too far off the beaten path to deal with it promptly.

That may not be the case today.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #143 on: March 23, 2023, 11:16:50 PM »

The MO portion of the CKC route makes sense. The IL route taking IL 110/336 thru Western IL is the head scratcher…I-55/US 66 to I-72/US 36 is the better IL routing, just not the politically saavy one
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kphoger

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #144 on: March 24, 2023, 09:44:56 AM »

The MO portion of the CKC route makes sense. The IL route taking IL 110/336 thru Western IL is the head scratcher…I-55/US 66 to I-72/US 36 is the better IL routing, just not the politically saavy one

Exactly.  I'd totally take the CKC from here on my way to Chicago–but only as far as Hannibal.  From that point, it would be over to Springfield and up through Pontiac.  Therefore, to me, the CKC designation is meaningless, because I would think of that route as {I-35 → US-36 → I-55}, not as {CKC → I-72 → I-55}.

[/rant]
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skluth

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #145 on: March 24, 2023, 10:44:12 AM »

CKC is a joke. It's not even the fastest way going west from Chicago as it follows I-88 and not I-80 to get to the I-74/80 interchange SE of the Quad Cities. Appropriately for that part of the country, it's a whole lotta pork.
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sprjus4

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #146 on: March 24, 2023, 10:59:51 AM »

CKC is a joke. It's not even the fastest way going west from Chicago as it follows I-88 and not I-80 to get to the I-74/80 interchange SE of the Quad Cities. Appropriately for that part of the country, it's a whole lotta pork.
Between downtown Chicago and the I-74/I-80 interchange, I-88 is 163 miles, and I-55 / I-80 is 162 miles. That segment isn’t the problem.
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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #147 on: March 25, 2023, 11:40:54 PM »

So I posit back to this audience, other than some noted safety and geometry issues in certain places, time to distance does *not* appear to be an issue with US36 across Missouri, even with the posted limits.

Why would MoDOT spend the money?

So they can finally take down the CKC signs?   :-P

Probably could. I asked a few truckers about 10-12 years ago if they had a load to take from CHI to KC would they use the CKC?

Definitely not scientific or universal but in my brief survey they all said no.

I asked why, something about "no company service or relief on the route".

I took that to mean if they had a breakdown, a mass tire event, or a driver problem, the route was too far off the beaten path to deal with it promptly.

That may not be the case today.

From what I remember the last time I was on it there was a new (2017) Love's about halfway across Missouri, there might be more now.
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3467

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #148 on: March 26, 2023, 09:35:26 AM »

Sprjus is right. The DOC is really the Chicago Quincy .The who Chicago Quincy Peoria issue has been going on since the beginning of the supplemental freeway system . If you want in-depth about it I will post some more in Downstate  notes under Great Lakes.

Nearby Missouri is beginning a new study of US 54 . A mix of passing lanes and it shared 4 over the 55 miles .
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3467

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Re: Future of I-72 in Missouri?
« Reply #149 on: March 26, 2023, 09:50:17 AM »

Let me give you a summary of you dont want to go through the arcane details of downstate Illinois. The CKC is a result of studies on How to get from Chicago to Peoria Quincy . None save miles . The shortest route is 55 72.
But close is not CKC  but IL 78 US 34 I mention that because a big stretch could be turned into Missouri shared 4 by repainting lines.It fits 9.28 miles off the 328 VIC
But 72 is shortest. 304.
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