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[TempoNick]

Little else has been exaggerated as much as the influence of this forum...

You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth. In one breath you say their priorities aren't what they should be and then you say you don't expect them to change their priorities and then you say they might based upon a reading of your post.

Don't be so scared of just calling them up.  You'd be surprised how open they'll be to responding to you about where their priorities lie.

I'm not scared of calling anybody up and I have contacted them before via email. I think it's silly to have this asset known as US 36 / Ohio 37 and not have it used to alleviate the US 23 traffic situation.

I've been contacted before by officials based on some of the other things I've written online because they liked my thinking and my logic. One time I was contacted by an Ohio State vice president and he wanted me to see if I wanted to get involved in some of the architectural planning for campus. It was because he was getting all kinds of nasty comments about the plans to demolish St John arena and he liked the fact that I was polite, respectful and made thoughtful comments. It happens.

[seicer]

The US 36 corridor has been studied as one of the freeway alternatives to carry through US 23 traffic from Delaware to Columbus, and vice versa. It's one of several options being considered, along with completely upgrading US 23 between I-270 and Delaware to a freeway.

But there is room for more than one project. These types of projects go through TRAC and are reviewed by a board for consideration. US 33's widening is on TRAC's list (line 38) for PE and DD, but anything regarding US 23 north of Columbus is still in the preliminary planning stages. It isn't eligible for TRAC and won't be for a few more years.

So you can write to whoever all you'd like, but it's not going to fundamentally change how ODOT funds its major new projects (using a process that's long been established).

[roadman65]

The US 36 corridor has been studied as one of the freeway alternatives to carry through US 23 traffic from Delaware to Columbus, and vice versa. It's one of several options being considered, along with completely upgrading US 23 between I-270 and Delaware to a freeway.

But there is room for more than one project. These types of projects go through TRAC and are reviewed by a board for consideration. US 33's widening is on TRAC's list (line 38) for PE and DD, but anything regarding US 23 north of Columbus is still in the preliminary planning stages. It isn't eligible for TRAC and won't be for a few more years.

So you can write to whoever all you'd like, but it's not going to fundamentally change how ODOT funds its major new projects (using a process that's long been established).

At least he is asserting himself to the right people rather than us who cannot control what Ohio does.  It’s better to write with no action than to rant to strangers with absolutely no control.

[seicer]

TRAC was designed to remove the political influence from Major New Capacity Program projects. It's chaired by the director of ODOT and its members consist of six appointed by the Governor and one each by the speaker of the Ohio House of Representatives and the president of the Ohio Senate.

It's better to actually attend these public hearings and meetings, and add public comments when requested. Not enough are engaged in the most basic of processes and then are suddenly outraged when their ideas and thoughts aren't taken into consideration. Much like TempoNick's disengagement with the US 33 project, which received the green light from TRAC in 2023 (after going through the review process, and as a project that was initially proposed when the super-two roads were built), the US 23 project considers alternate alignments - including one that TempoNick proposed. It's Alternate E-2.

Both US 33 and US 23 serve different regions with different considerations. Both can be built and both can be funded. No need to pit an us versus them argument.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

TRAC was designed to remove the political influence from Major New Capacity Program projects. It's chaired by the director of ODOT and its members consist of six appointed by the Governor and one each by the speaker of the Ohio House of Representatives and the president of the Ohio Senate.

It's better to actually attend these public hearings and meetings, and add public comments when requested. Not enough are engaged in the most basic of processes and then are suddenly outraged when their ideas and thoughts aren't taken into consideration. The US 23 project considers alternate alignments - including one that TempoNick proposed. It's Alternate E-2.

Sherman conveniently forgot this, concerning US 23 (aka I-73) through Delaware Co...
from the bottom of page 1 on https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/projects/projects/112768

After comparison of the expected benefits and costs for each Phase 1 concept, we have determined none of the concepts as presented can be reasonably implemented. The concepts presented would cost at least three times more than the benefits it would provide and each of the proposed concepts would substantially impact community and natural resources.

Instead, the study is shifting its focus to planning and implementing a series of stand-alone improvement projects along the existing U.S. 23 corridor between Waldo and I-270. The next phase of the study will inform an action plan that recommends and prioritizes specific projects along U.S. 23 to provide safer and more efficient travel, including increased travel time reliability for through traffic.

[seicer]

TRAC was designed to remove the political influence from Major New Capacity Program projects. It's chaired by the director of ODOT and its members consist of six appointed by the Governor and one each by the speaker of the Ohio House of Representatives and the president of the Ohio Senate.

It's better to actually attend these public hearings and meetings, and add public comments when requested. Not enough are engaged in the most basic of processes and then are suddenly outraged when their ideas and thoughts aren't taken into consideration. The US 23 project considers alternate alignments - including one that TempoNick proposed. It's Alternate E-2.

Sherman conveniently forgot this, concerning US 23 (aka I-73) through Delaware Co...
from the bottom of page 1 on https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/projects/projects/112768

After comparison of the expected benefits and costs for each Phase 1 concept, we have determined none of the concepts as presented can be reasonably implemented. The concepts presented would cost at least three times more than the benefits it would provide and each of the proposed concepts would substantially impact community and natural resources.

Instead, the study is shifting its focus to planning and implementing a series of stand-alone improvement projects along the existing U.S. 23 corridor between Waldo and I-270. The next phase of the study will inform an action plan that recommends and prioritizes specific projects along U.S. 23 to provide safer and more efficient travel, including increased travel time reliability for through traffic.

I don't keep tabs on all projects across the state all the time, so I don't catch every single update that an agency makes. You can take your snotty and snide attitude elsewhere Sandor.

(And nowhere is this project being proposed as Interstate 73. It's long dead in the water. But if you want to surface anything recent about it, feel free to paste in any citations.)

[The Ghostbuster]

Would this be a better thread title?

[74/171FAN]

Would this be a better thread title?

Probably, US 23 north of Columbus may fit better.

[seicer]

Would this be a better thread title?

Probably, US 23 north of Columbus may fit better.

There are projects programmed south of Columbus, too, under TRAC Tier I and II commitments. Notably, there will be an interchange at OH 762 in Pickaway County (design 2024, R/W 2025). At one point, ODOT had also committed to a limited-access South Bloomfield bypass, but I can't find their internal website for that anymore.

There are some intersection improvements here and there, and the conversion of the abandoned weigh stations at Chillicothe to truck parking, but that's about it. The last major project to be built was the OH 823 bypass around Portsmouth - with its one-lane terminus ramps. If ODOT is planning for an interstate, it's doing a fine job of that 😉

The thread could probably just be "US 23 in Ohio" but I've been posting US 23 updates in the general Ohio thread. This could just probably remain as-is to allow for any fantasies to be fulfilled and moved to the fictional category.

[Molandfreak]

Would this be a better thread title?

No, because ODOT made the idiotic choice to split the corridor into US 23 and SR 15.

[carbaugh2]

North of Columbus:
Speaking of the new review of US 23 upgrades from Worthington to Waldo, ODOT put out a press release last week (https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/about-us/news/statewide/odot-announces-proposed-us23-corridor-safety-improvements) that included the following fact sheet:

https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/wps/wcm/connect/gov/32d683f7-6370-4a6b-828a-9d436ddd7b48/23+Connect+Fact+Sheet+9-25-23.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CONVERT_TO=url&CACHEID=ROOTWORKSPACE.Z18_M1HGGIK0N0JO00QO9DDDDM3000-32d683f7-6370-4a6b-828a-9d436ddd7b48-oHt1TuA

ODOT is breaking the section of highway into 7 segments and will begin having public input sessions in October and November. My hope is that they will do a piecemeal upgrade to limited access in as many segments as possible.

South of Columbus:
I drove 23 north from Chillicothe to 270 last weekend on a return trip from Jackson (I took the 664 and 93 for the scenic route on the way down). My opinion is that 23 between Columbus and Circleville is going to turn into Worthington-Waldo if ODOT does not become more proactive. The TRAC program includes improvements to the 270-23 south side interchange and 23-Rathmell intersection with construction monies ready to go, but ODOT still does not have a project page (92616) on its website showing the proposed changes. The interchange at 762 is a nice improvement, and I am looking forward to its completion. I believe the truck parking conversion that Sherman referenced has been completed. 

[GaryV]

Would this be a better thread title?

No, because ODOT made the idiotic choice to split the corridor into US 23 and SR 15.

US-23 provided a more direct route from Toledo to Columbus back before the Interstate days. As I-75 came into being, it was wisely decided that there was no reason to create a separate nearly parallel freeway along US-23, thus the 75/15/23 routing of today.

[TempoNick]

Would this be a better thread title?

No, because ODOT made the idiotic choice to split the corridor into US 23 and SR 15.

US-23 provided a more direct route from Toledo to Columbus back before the Interstate days. As I-75 came into being, it was wisely decided that there was no reason to create a separate nearly parallel freeway along US-23, thus the 75/15/23 routing of today.

Wisely? Not wise at all. I-75 swings too far to the west. (At least 25 miles as the crow flies.) You lose too much mileage coming back east again. It is worthless as a route to Columbus because of this. It also makes us 33 worthless coming in to Columbus from I-75 because of that swing to the west (so that Lima has a freeway running through it).

Interesting that they prioritized giving freeway access to Lima over a free-flowing route to the state capital.

The only realistic answer is some kind of a bypass to connect US-23 to i-71, or to four-lane US 68 / Ohio 31 to connect to US 33.

[sprjus4]

There are zero issues with I-73 / OH-15 / US-23 as a routing between Toledo and Columbus in terms of distance.

It is faster and less than 10 miles longer than two-lane US-23.

[GaryV]

Would this be a better thread title?

No, because ODOT made the idiotic choice to split the corridor into US 23 and SR 15.

US-23 provided a more direct route from Toledo to Columbus back before the Interstate days. As I-75 came into being, it was wisely decided that there was no reason to create a separate nearly parallel freeway along US-23, thus the 75/15/23 routing of today.

Wisely? Not wise at all. I-75 swings too far to the west. (At least 25 miles as the crow flies.) You lose too much mileage coming back east again. It is worthless as a route to Columbus because of this. It also makes us 33 worthless coming in to Columbus from I-75 because of that swing to the west (so that Lima has a freeway running through it).

Interesting that they prioritized giving freeway access to Lima over a free-flowing route to the state capital.

The only realistic answer is some kind of a bypass to connect US-23 to i-71, or to four-lane US 68 / Ohio 31 to connect to US 33.

I-75 doesn't bend west until you get south of Findlay. From Findlay to Carey (where 15 meets 23) is less than 20 miles. From Toledo directly to Carey is over 50 miles.

You don't even need to go near to Lima. (I-75 doesn't bend west to get to Lima, it bends west to eventually get to Cincinnati.)

Or are you thinking that you have to stay on an Interstate to get from Toledo to Columbus, so you go all the way down to Dayton?

[TempoNick]

I-75 doesn't bend west until you get south of Findlay. From Findlay to Carey (where 15 meets 23) is less than 20 miles. From Toledo directly to Carey is over 50 miles.

You don't even need to go near to Lima. (I-75 doesn't bend west to get to Lima, it bends west to eventually get to Cincinnati.)

Or are you thinking that you have to stay on an Interstate to get from Toledo to Columbus, so you go all the way down to Dayton?

I may not have expressed it well, but my point is that I-75 to either I-70 or US 33 into Columbus is not workable because of that 25 mi swing to the west. If not for that 25 mile swing to the west, US 33 would be perfect as a route into Columbus.

US 23 is fine as a route from Findlay to Delaware, but that last segment is problematic both because of public opposition and it seems like that would be a lot of expensive land to acquire. Now if I were somebody in a position of power, I would ignore the public opposition. They will thank you 30 years from now because gridlock serves nobody well.

If US 23 can't happen, it seems like a four-lane highway between following US 68 and Ohio 31 all the way into Marysville would be a good route. Also can serve as a second way to feed traffic into US 30 into Fort Wayne and Chicago. It's 60 miles worth of freeway though.

Another option is building some kind of a highway between Indian lake and Bluffton which is about 30 miles worth of road, but that adds 15 miles to the trip to Columbus. I don't think that's horrible in the whole scheme of things, but I can see in the whole big picture that might not be very efficient when thinking of thousands of cars taking that extra 15 miles.


Shared route
From Findlay, Ohio 45840 to Worthington, Ohio via US-68 S and OH-31 S.

1 hr 42 min (85 mi)
 https://maps.app.goo.gl/nAm2eRRZx1euMwRb6

[Bitmapped]

If US 23 can't happen, it seems like a four-lane highway between Findlay and Kenton all the way into Marysville would be a good route. In the alternative, you can basically follow Ohio 235 through Ada to get down to Indian lake and US 33.

A bypass of Kenton would be useful and a couple dedicated passing lanes would be nice. I don't see that a four-lane highway is required on for the full US 68/SR 31 corridor. It's flat, straight, and rural and can handle several thousand more vehicles per day before capacity becomes a problem.

[TempoNick]

If US 23 can't happen, it seems like a four-lane highway between Findlay and Kenton all the way into Marysville would be a good route. In the alternative, you can basically follow Ohio 235 through Ada to get down to Indian lake and US 33.

A bypass of Kenton would be useful and a couple dedicated passing lanes would be nice. I don't see that a four-lane highway is required on for the full US 68/SR 31 corridor. It's flat, straight, and rural and can handle several thousand more vehicles per day before capacity becomes a problem.

No, it is not required there. I'm talking about it only as an alternative to US 23 from Toledo into Columbus, a route which is required IMO. It would be a relatively clean way of getting the job done.

Also think of Honda and all its suppliers and connectivity to Michigan. I think freeway is justified.

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Would this be a better thread title?

No, because ODOT made the idiotic choice to split the corridor into US 23 and SR 15.

US-23 provided a more direct route from Toledo to Columbus back before the Interstate days. As I-75 came into being, it was wisely decided that there was no reason to create a separate nearly parallel freeway along US-23, thus the 75/15/23 routing of today.

Wisely? Not wise at all. I-75 swings too far to the west. (At least 25 miles as the crow flies.) You lose too much mileage coming back east again. It is worthless as a route to Columbus because of this. It also makes us 33 worthless coming in to Columbus from I-75 because of that swing to the west (so that Lima has a freeway running through it).

Interesting that they prioritized giving freeway access to Lima over a free-flowing route to the state capital.

The only realistic answer is some kind of a bypass to connect US-23 to i-71, or to four-lane US 68 / Ohio 31 to connect to US 33.

It was Roosevelt's fault. From 1946

[Molandfreak]

Would this be a better thread title?

No, because ODOT made the idiotic choice to split the corridor into US 23 and SR 15.

US-23 provided a more direct route from Toledo to Columbus back before the Interstate days. As I-75 came into being, it was wisely decided that there was no reason to create a separate nearly parallel freeway along US-23, thus the 75/15/23 routing of today.

Yes, but preliminary maps showed a plan of moving US 23 onto (current) SR 15 and I-75, which is what they should have done instead of keeping it on a random two-lane road…

[TempoNick]

Yes, but preliminary maps showed a plan of moving US 23 onto (current) SR 15 and I-75, which is what they should have done instead of keeping it on a random two-lane road…

While I agree with you all about the numbering, I'm not so much concerned with that. I just think it's time for a four-lane (or more) freeway between Columbus and Toledo no matter how it's done.

[Buck87]

The OH 15 section of this corridor has recently been seeing improvements to reduce the number of at grade intersections.

Within the past week two new overpasses over 15 have opened, at CR 169 near Vanlue and at CR 180 near Findlay

Another one at CR 193 near Vanlue is scheduled to start construction in 2025:
https://www.transportation.ohio.gov/projects/projects/114008