European Motorways vs. US Freeways

[Riverside Frwy]

When I look at California 91 near my house just outside of Corona, I can't help but feel sad.*Why* is half the HOV lane concrete, the other half of the HOV pavement, the left lanes old pavement, and the right lanes old concrete?

I mean come on.When I see a European Motorway, it's beautiful and nice smooth pavement, it's almost perfect....

What's up with that?We need put more money into highway maintenance, because our freeways are just sad.

[mightyace]

Well, until the voting public is willing to put up more money for higher

gas taxes
tolls
auto registration
sales taxes
income taxes
(insert favorite tax or fee here)

or are willing to cut back on

pork barrel projects
social services
military spending
(insert favorite source of "waste" funding here)

it's not going to happen.

As has been noted in many other threads, Europeans, in general, are willing to put up with higher levels of taxes than those of us in the states.

[roadfro]

When I look at California 91 near my house just outside of Corona, I can't help but feel sad.*Why* is half the HOV lane concrete, the other half of the HOV pavement, the left lanes old pavement, and the right lanes old concrete?

By "pavement" here, I assume you mean "asphalt"... "Pavement" can refer to a multitude of things, and "concrete" can mean at least two different types of paved surfaces in the civil engineering realm: "asphalt concrete" (often just referred to as "asphalt") and "Portland Cement Concrete" (abbreviated as "PCC" and sometimes simply referred to as "cement" or "concrete").


Sometimes, you need to use a different type of pavement in order to quickly get a job done. For example, there may be an existing freeway with three lanes and wide shoulders paved with PCC. 10 years later, additional capacity is needed on the mainline and plans are made to add a lane, but that is all the work that will be done. The plan will be to add some pavement on either side of the existing shoulders and shift the existing lanes, so as to work within the existing right-of-way.

In this situation, the original PCC pavement will very likely still be in good condition, since PCC pavements typically have a design life of 30+ years before major rehabilitation/reconstruction is needed. The way PCC pavement is designed, rebar reinforces the cement throughout the pavement length, and each cement slab is tied into the adjoining slabs with rebar in order to transfer loads. It is not easy to join new PCC pavement into existing pavement. Therefore, adding PCC paving will be extremely difficult in this situation, and it also won't make sense to completely reconstruct the freeway. Thus, the easiest and most cost-effective option is to add the new lanes by using asphalt. Since asphalt has shorter life cycles, it would be suitable enough to last until the adjacent cement pavement needs to be replaced. At that time, it would be likely that the entire roadway would be reconstructed completely as asphalt or PCC.


In a similar vein, some DOTs will sometimes pave the mainline lanes with PCC while using asphalt on the shoulders. Since the majority of the pavement strength needs to be under the lanes, using a lesser-strength pavement material on the shoulders can be a cost-saving measure. However, should widening need to occur, it may become a situation that the asphalt shoulder may be partially converted to travel lane.

[Chris]

European taxes are much higher, though it has to be noted like 1/5th of the automobile-related tax income is actually spent on roads in the Netherlands.

The Dutch gas is $ 8 per gallon, 75% of that being taxes. Slightly lower prices are common throughout Europe, even relatively poor countries like Romania still charge over $ 5 per gallon.

Another issue are purchase taxes on cars. Apart from the 19% sales tax, there is an additional 42% tax. This way, the actual value of a car is doubles by taxes.

Third, we pay a road tax, which is usually between $ 700 and $ 1,600 per year per car (depending on fuel type and weight).

The Dutch government revenue about automobility-related taxes is about $ 25 billion per year, but the national road budget is only $ 4.2 billion per year, add another $ 1 billion in provincial and local investment, and the income vs spending ratio is still 5 to 1.

So higher taxes don't mean more money is actually spent on roads. It's mostly a milking cow.

[SP Cook]

With respect, when you see California 91, understand that it is a part of a continent wide system that can take you most anywhere you want to go on a similar road from San Diego to St. John's from Vancouver to Miami from Del Rio to International Falls, and anywhere in between.  Contrasting this to Europe, where the "motorway" system covers a geographic area that is 1/5th the size, is an unfair comparison. 

[Chris]

The longest distance you can drive in Europe via continuous motorways is 4,200 kilometers (2,600 miles), from Lagos, Portugal to Gävle, Sweden without taking unnecessary detours.

In the future, this will be Gaziantep, Turkey to Lagos, Portugal: 5,700 kilometers (3,500 miles)

[english si]

Bear in mind that Europe is a lot more dense - more people in less area. There needs to be more/wider motorways to carry the traffic. We don't really have long bits going through empty land, like America has in the West. Everything is closer together, so longest journeys by freeway won't be as long.

Also, I take it that the OP hasn't seen things like the Belgian A28 - dire surface there. New roads  have decent surfaces, old roads tend to have just been resurfaced. Much more tarmac/asphalt, rather than concrete helps give the impression. The milder climate on the Atlantic edges means less damage to surfaces, as do smaller trucks.

I think in the UK it's about 15% of the amount that road/car/fuel taxes/duties bring in get spent on roads. Then again, some more gets spent on other transport, and some on injuries caused by accidents, so it's probably about 35-40% that gets spent in vaguely related fields.

[Michael]

In a similar vein, some DOTs will sometimes pave the mainline lanes with PCC while using asphalt on the shoulders. Since the majority of the pavement strength needs to be under the lanes, using a lesser-strength pavement material on the shoulders can be a cost-saving measure. However, should widening need to occur, it may become a situation that the asphalt shoulder may be partially converted to travel lane.

The NY Thruway used this technique when reconstructing the section between Exits 39 and 40.

On a side note, your post was very interesting.

[Riverside Frwy]

With respect, when you see California 91, understand that it is a part of a continent wide system that can take you most anywhere you want to go on a similar road from San Diego to St. John's from Vancouver to Miami from Del Rio to International Falls, and anywhere in between.  Contrasting this to Europe, where the "motorway" system covers a geographic area that is 1/5th the size, is an unfair comparison.  

I have respect for the system.All I'm saying is that our freeways could look a bit nicer, especially how much taxes I give the Government every year.If the US Government can afford all these high-tech multi-million dollar military machines, they can atleast afford to maintain a stretch of highway.Is a 60 mile drive that's smooth, even, and pot hole free too much to ask?Why when I go down I-105 in LA that I hit a bump so uneven that I literally fly out of my seat?

[realjd]

I have respect for the system.All I'm saying is that our freeways could look a bit nicer, especially how much taxes I give the Government every year.If the US Government can afford all these high-tech multi-million dollar military machines, they can atleast afford to maintain a stretch of highway.Is a 60 mile drive that's smooth, even, and pot hole free too much to ask?Why when I go down I-105 in LA that I hit a bump so uneven that I literally fly out of my seat?

Apples to oranges. The "military machines" you're referring to are paid by federal tax dollars. Highway maintenance is a state function. California in particular isn't exactly known for its good use of public money.

[agentsteel53]

Apples to oranges. The "military machines" you're referring to are paid by federal tax dollars. Highway maintenance is a state function. California in particular isn't exactly known for its good use of public money.

how much is CA getting out of ARRA money and/or standard federal contribution matching?  there is a portion of state highway maintenance that is federal tax dollar funded.

[agentsteel53]

The longest distance you can drive in Europe via continuous motorways is 4,200 kilometers (2,600 miles), from Lagos, Portugal to Gävle, Sweden without taking unnecessary detours.

In the future, this will be Gaziantep, Turkey to Lagos, Portugal: 5,700 kilometers (3,500 miles)

and how far can you drive on paved two-lane roads?  Lagos to Kirkenes, Norway?  Here in the US and Canada, you can make it from Key West, FL to the first dirt road section of the Dalton Highway in Alaska where the road turns to dirt.  Just in the continental US, probably only a few miles longer than on the interstate system.

[Chris]

and how far can you drive on paved two-lane roads?  Lagos to Kirkenes, Norway? 

Yeah, that would be around 5,600 kilometers. But you can drive into Asia, all the way into China, then down to Singapore.

[agentsteel53]

excellent!  where does that go; through Kazakhstan?

[realjd]

how much is CA getting out of ARRA money and/or standard federal contribution matching?  there is a portion of state highway maintenance that is federal tax dollar funded.

States do get some fed tax dollars to help with roads, but which project get funded is still a state decision. Some states use those fed tax dollars as an excuse to spend less state money on highways.

[TheStranger]

Some states use those fed tax dollars as an excuse to spend less state money on highways.

And some states/municipalities have transferred that fed tax dollars to non-highway causes, i.e. here in Sacramento, where the money that would have gone towards replacing what is now Business 80 northeast of E Street (what was then I-80, and in the past US 99E) with an interstate-standard freeway was instead used for the light rail project.

[Bickendan]

Diverting money to kill a new freeway to build a light-rail I can see (Mt Hood Freeway, for example), but building a freeway instead of rebuilding? That's irresponsible.

[TheStranger]

Diverting money to kill a new freeway to build a light-rail I can see (Mt Hood Freeway, for example), but building a freeway instead of rebuilding? That's irresponsible.

That depends on if you have right of way issues with the existing corridor though, in which case an alternate route may be ultimately necessary.

Trying to clarify what you said...in the case of today's Business 80 in Sacramento, the planned realignment for what was then I-80 would be a shorter route along the railroad tracks (where the light rail runs today) through North Sacramento.  Not sure what would've happened to the older ROW along Auburn Boulevard, but in any case, Business 80 is now one of the worst bottlenecks in the region.

[Bickendan]

Doesn't the light rail run along the CA 160 stub freeway?

[TheStranger]

Doesn't the light rail run along the CA 160 stub freeway?

Only for the bridge across the American River, and about a half mile north past that.  (That freeway has always been a "stub" in that it never was intended to connect at its west end to another freeway, but was a bypass of North Sacramento for US 99E and US 40.)

[deathtopumpkins]

roadfro, that post almost perfectly sums up what VDOT did when I-64 on the Peninsula was widened a decade ago. The existing dual 2-lane carriageways had their medians filled in with newer concrete, which added 2 more lanes in each direction with a jersey barrier in between. Thus, for the stretch north of around the Magruder Blvd interchange (NB exit 262B) the original concrete pavement remains intact (well, likely not original, but it predates the widening anyway), albeit heavily patched, while the left 2 lanes use new, smoother concrete. Many original signs even remain in use on the outside, such as the motorist service signs, which seem rather out-of-place in an urban environment, and patched-over speed limit signs (were changed from 65 to 55 and 60).

While I think this is an efficient method of widening a road, I really would prefer uniformly smooth pavement like on the reconstructed segment through the Mercury Blvd/US-258/VA-134 interchange (exit 263) just to the south.

[realjd]

excellent!  where does that go; through Kazakhstan?

You got me wondering too. I'm going to make a thread under the international highways section about it.

[Chris]

Via Kazakhstan into China is by far the shortest route, plus you have more high-standard roads (mostly in China). The road through Mongolia is not entirely paved, if you want to use a paved route, I think you need to get east of Mongolia and then enter China.