Airport Guide Signs

[Mr_Northside]

Looks like they're back at work replacing signs.

Noticed this from a PennDOT camera along I-79 (yes, I am bored enough to peep that shit, and then post about it)....


Of course, this new sign has a slight error, with that "West" next to the 376.  (The tab & destinations show the sign is obviously for both directions of the Parkway)

I'd like to think the reason PennDOT is/was pointing the camera close up to the sign was because they noticed the same thing.  Who knows.

[treichard]

Isn't "International" usually "Int'l" instead of that extended consonant gbbrsh?

[Truvelo]

"Pgh" also doesn't mean much. How about using the airport's official IATA code instead which is PIT.

"PIT Int'l Airport" sounds much better. Alternatively just add an airplane symbol to the sign as that is self explanatory but don't do as someone did with this sign 

[agentsteel53]

it took me a good 6 years of regularly visiting relatives in the area to figure out that "PGH" meant "Pittsburgh".  Imagine how the occasional traveler, looking to find the airport after his first visit to the US, would do.

yes, the airplane icon does wonders.  Today I found the optimal to the Denver airport by following the icon.

[agentsteel53]

Isn't "International" usually "Int'l" instead of that extended consonant gbbrsh?

it probably is.  PITTSBURGH AIRPORT should be sufficient notice for people, and be much clearer.  Let's face it, the ordinary traveler does not give three fifths of a smallish rat turd if your airport has two flights a day to Moose Knuckle, Newfoundland and is therefore called an INTERNATIONAL airport.  

The affectation of calling airports INTERNATIONAL seems to be an American elitism (sweet liberal Cthulhu, we talk to other countries; begin the parade and launch the fireworks posthaste! Uncle Sam! Uncle Sam! If he can't do it, no one can!  2 - 4 - 6 - 8 - IRAQI PEOPLE LIBERATE!)

Get the Hell over yourself.  Drop the pretension in favor of clarity.  Pittsburgh Airport, with a little airplane icon, is the best way to describe the destination.

[PAHighways]

PennDOT could have just put "Airport" on the sign, since that is what was used on the guide for 279 South at the former end of 376.  Considering that is the only airport in that direction, I don't think people would confuse it with any others.

[J N Winkler]

it probably is.  PITTSBURGH AIRPORT should be sufficient notice for people, and be much clearer.  Let's face it, the ordinary traveler does not give three fifths of a smallish rat turd if your airport has two flights a day to Moose Knuckle, Newfoundland and is therefore called an INTERNATIONAL airport.

The problem is that in metro areas with multiple airports, there is the possibility of confusion without "Intl" or some other identifier.  This is not a problem in areas like Chicago where airports have well-known names in their own right (O'Hare and Midway), but it might pose a problem in cities like Wichita where there is an airport providing scheduled passenger services and a smaller executive airport.  The locals will know which airport has the scheduled flights, but visitors might have difficulty.

The affectation of calling airports INTERNATIONAL seems to be an American elitism (sweet liberal Cthulhu, we talk to other countries; begin the parade and launch the fireworks posthaste! Uncle Sam! Uncle Sam! If he can't do it, no one can!  2 - 4 - 6 - 8 - IRAQI PEOPLE LIBERATE!)

It is a distinction we have to make because we are a large country and a minority of our airports have the immigration and customs clearance facilities which qualify them to be called "International."  Small bucket-and-spade and tin-shed airports in places like the UK and Spain (LEI comes to mind) don't have to label themselves "international" because they have out-of-country flights if they have scheduled passenger services at all.

Pittsburgh Airport, with a little airplane icon, is the best way to describe the destination.

I am a favor of the British approach:  "Heathrow [airplane symbol]."  There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport.  So if the airport is straight ahead, the plane will be "flying" to the top of the sign, whereas it will be pointed a little to the left if you have to take an exit slip.

[english si]

It is a distinction we have to make because we are a large country and a minority of our airports have the immigration and customs clearance facilities which qualify them to be called "International."  Small bucket-and-spade and tin-shed airports in places like the UK and Spain (LEI comes to mind) don't have to label themselves "international" because they have out-of-country flights if they have scheduled passenger services at all.

Papa Westray and similar? To be fair, lots of them do put International on - Birmingham, Belfast (the one near Antrim), Bristol, Blackpool, Exeter, Norwich, Glasgow and Glasgow Prestwick all have the word in their full name.

Birmingham, AFAICS, doesn't have another airport (though it may have done once upon a time, and the name stuck, especially as there's a rail station called Birmingham International right next door), Belfast has City (which also has International flights, but is 1 mile, rather than 20 from the city centre as the crow flies), Blackpool, Bristol, Exeter and Norwich are vanity projects. Glasgow International was probably originally called that to separate it from Prestwick (near Ayr) when that added the 'Glasgow' tag - saying "we're the main airport". Prestwick then went "we have international flights too" and added it.

Railway stations are where adding International becomes useful, though birmingham International (named after the airport) and Stratford International won't see International (ignoring trains to Scotland and Wales from Birmingham International) trains, except for a couple of weeks in 2012 (perhaps), where Stratford International is right next to a major sporting event. Maybe in 20 years time, there might be some international rail service stopping at Stratford International (and at Birmingham Interchange, which would be near Birmingham International, linked via monorail). However given Stratford International is half a mile from the 'domestic' station, and to the north, calling it Stratford South Eastern (given that the trains run to the SE from there) might confuse people - though Wigan North Western (named after company that built it) is SW of Wigan Wallgate and no one seems to care. The other 3 'International' stations (St Pancras International, Ebbsfleet International and Ashford International) all have International services, as did Waterloo International, before it closed when the high speed line via Ebbsfleet to St Pancras International opened.

I am a favor of the British approach:  "Heathrow [airplane symbol]."  There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport.  So if the airport is straight ahead, the plane will be "flying" to the top of the sign, whereas it will be pointed a little to the left if you have to take an exit slip.

Note that the plane should never be descending, like on that sign in central Bristol, purely as it looks like it's crashing.

[LeftyJR]

Looks like they're back at work replacing signs.

Noticed this from a PennDOT camera along I-79 (yes, I am bored enough to peep that shit, and then post about it)....


Of course, this new sign has a slight error, with that "West" next to the 376.  (The tab & destinations show the sign is obviously for both directions of the Parkway)

I'd like to think the reason PennDOT is/was pointing the camera close up to the sign was because they noticed the same thing.  Who knows.

That has to be the worst abbreviations I've ever seen.  If I'm not mistaken, the sign used to just say "Airport".

[thenetwork]

The problem is that in metro areas with multiple airports, there is the possibility of confusion without "Intl" or some other identifier.  This is not a problem in areas like Chicago where airports have well-known names in their own right (O'Hare and Midway), but it might pose a problem in cities like Wichita where there is an airport providing scheduled passenger services and a smaller executive airport.  The locals will know which airport has the scheduled flights, but visitors might have difficulty.

The airports in the Akron, OH/Canton, OH area are extremely confusing.

** The Airport in Akron proper **
-- Was the Original Commercial Airport serving the Akron/Canton Area prior to the 60's.
-- Noted on some BGS in Akron as "Akron-Fulton Airport", "Municipal Airport" or "Akron Municipal Airport"
-- Noted on Google Maps as "Akron-Fulton International Airport"
-- But it is only a private/freight/corporate airport...

** The Airport between Akron & Canton **
-- Became the official passenger airport in the late 50's/early 60's.
-- Known in the Northeast Ohio area as "Akron-Canton Airport"
-- Some BGS will refer it as "Akron-Canton Airport" or "Akron-Canton Regional Airport"
-- Most airlines which fly into Akron-Canton airport refer to it as "Canton-Akron Airport" because of its airport code of CAK.
-- The Akron-Canton Airport is closer to Canton than it is to Akron.

So if you are not a local, depending on which way you are coming from, and/or if you are relying on Google maps to find the "big" airport in Akron, you may wind up at the wrong airport, even though you may think the "Akron-Fulton International Airport" is THE airport to catch a regularly scheduled flight.

[mightyace]

^^^
Fortunately, at least when I lived there from 1985 to 1995, this was mitigated by the fact that most people flew in/out of Cleveland Hopkins Airport because of a severe price premium for flying out of Akron-Canton.  I only once ever flew into Akron-Canto Airport and all other times flew in/out of Cleveland.

That may still be true today as Southwest flies to Cleveland but not Akron-Canton.

[treichard]

Maybe a spin-off thread about airport guide signs would be useful.

Taking some people to the airport once, they saw this sign:
https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/maryland150/i-195_eb_exit_003_03.jpg
(from https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/i-195_md.html)
One didn't believe me when I said that that red-white icon was an airplane taking off.  It could also be a view of the Empire State Building from below.

[rickmastfan67]

Maybe a spin-off thread about airport guide signs would be useful.

I agree.  I'll split this thread up.

[agentsteel53]

The problem is that in metro areas with multiple airports, there is the possibility of confusion without "Intl" or some other identifier.  This is not a problem in areas like Chicago where airports have well-known names in their own right (O'Hare and Midway), but it might pose a problem in cities like Wichita where there is an airport providing scheduled passenger services and a smaller executive airport.  The locals will know which airport has the scheduled flights, but visitors might have difficulty.

Does Pittsburgh specifically have this difficulty?  If not, then there is no reason to overcomplicate the signage.  I love how LAX's official name on green signs is now ... LAX Airport. Everyone knows what it is, and there are no more clunky "LA International Airport" signs.  Well, there is one; it dates to 1953 and may it survive forever, but no new examples are being installed.

It is a distinction we have to make because we are a large country and a minority of our airports have the immigration and customs clearance facilities which qualify them to be called "International."  Small bucket-and-spade and tin-shed airports in places like the UK and Spain (LEI comes to mind) don't have to label themselves "international" because they have out-of-country flights if they have scheduled passenger services at all.

I am not sure what you are getting at here.  Yes, there are some airports in the US that have the necessary border jackass facilities, but that is not a fact to be celebrated with adding a thirteen-letter word to the title - especially when it is the only airport in town.

The major airport of a city should be called, say, Pittsburgh Airport, and the smaller ones can be Pittsburgh Executive Airport or whatnot, and there is no need to use the word "international" (and certainly not with the bumbling abbreviation seen on the green sign) which is not an effective way to differentiate the primary airport.  As I said - just because you have two flights a day to Tijuana...

a minority of our airports have flights to Denver, or flights using the Airbus A380, or rental car facilities, or whatever other features, yet we do not feel the need to advertise said features in the very name of the airport if they happen to exist.  "Welcome to San Francisco's four-747-capable-landing-strips, eighty-two bars, fourteen duty free shops, and a shoe shine guy airport!"

I am a favor of the British approach:  "Heathrow [airplane symbol]."  There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport.  So if the airport is straight ahead, the plane will be "flying" to the top of the sign, whereas it will be pointed a little to the left if you have to take an exit slip.

luckily a lot of US locations obey that, but indeed it does not appear to be mandated because plenty of places don't.  I especially love the default rightward-pointing plane combined with a left arrow.  That makes me do a double-take every time.

[roadfro]

["International Aiprort"] is a distinction we [the US] have to make because we are a large country and a minority of our airports have the immigration and customs clearance facilities which qualify them to be called "International."  Small bucket-and-spade and tin-shed airports in places like the UK and Spain (LEI comes to mind) don't have to label themselves "international" because they have out-of-country flights if they have scheduled passenger services at all.

I would opine that the name of the airport itself would be a prompt in many cases that could be cause to leave the "International" off of the airport name when used on guide signage. If one is flying out of a major urban area with more than one airport, they're likely looking for the name of the airport and not whether it's the international airport or not.  It seems as though multiple airports in the same area wouldn't have the same basic name--Podunk City shouldn't have both a Podunk International Airport and a Podunk Regional Airport--although this sensible assumption probably has an exception somewhere...

The MUTCD includes "intl" as the official abbreviation that shall be used for "international", so the "intrntl" abomination in that picture should have been avoided...

I am a favor of the British approach:  "Heathrow [airplane symbol]."  There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport.  So if the airport is straight ahead, the plane will be "flying" to the top of the sign, whereas it will be pointed a little to the left if you have to take an exit slip.

An interpretation issued by FHWA in 2005 states the post-mounted airport sign (I1-5) may be rotated by 90 degrees when access to the facility is made via a right or left turn. This is allowed under an option in MUTCD section 2A.06(10), which allows the orientation of a symbol to be changed to reflect direction of travel, if appropriate.

[J N Winkler]

I love how LAX's official name on green signs is now ... LAX Airport. Everyone knows what it is, and there are no more clunky "LA International Airport" signs.  Well, there is one; it dates to 1953 and may it survive forever, but no new examples are being installed.

But LAX is an iconic airport serving a major world city with an urbanized area population of over 10 million.  The terminal building that looks like an alien spaceship about to take off is well-recognized from its appearance in movies (including Speed).  For smaller cities with more obscure airports I'd contend it would be more helpful to navigation to spell out the airport name (with abbreviations as appropriate--yes, "Internatl" versus "Intl" is a real eyesore).

I am not sure what you are getting at here.  Yes, there are some airports in the US that have the necessary border jackass facilities, but that is not a fact to be celebrated with adding a thirteen-letter word to the title - especially when it is the only airport in town.

The presence of jackbooted minions from the appropriate DHS agencies--no.  The possibility of flying internationally from this small community airport--yes.  Airports like LAX, O'Hare, and even Sky Harbor are genuine world airports with over 30 million PATMs annually.  Smaller airports feel they have to advertise themselves by claiming a wide traffic basin, so they tend to use the word "International" prominently in their publicity, and that in turn can raise issues of relatability on guide signs.

The major airport of a city should be called, say, Pittsburgh Airport, and the smaller ones can be Pittsburgh Executive Airport or whatnot, and there is no need to use the word "international" (and certainly not with the bumbling abbreviation seen on the green sign) which is not an effective way to differentiate the primary airport.  As I said - just because you have two flights a day to Tijuana...

I wouldn't go for such a prescriptive solution.  I'd look instead at how the airports are referred to in ordinary speech.  In Wichita the commercial airport is called (and signed as) "Mid-Continent Airport" while the executive airport is "Col James Jabara Airport" (and the smaller airports owned by the aircraft manufacturers are generally not signed at all).  "LAX" works for Los Angeles because of its iconic status, while just "Airport" may very well work for PIT if it is really the only general-purpose airport in the region.

I am a favor of the British approach:  "Heathrow [airplane symbol]."  There is an additional nicety in Britain that we don't do--Chapter 7 requires that the plane symbol (which can be rotated) be pointing in the direction drivers need to take to get to the airport.  So if the airport is straight ahead, the plane will be "flying" to the top of the sign, whereas it will be pointed a little to the left if you have to take an exit slip.

luckily a lot of US locations obey that, but indeed it does not appear to be mandated because plenty of places don't.  I especially love the default rightward-pointing plane combined with a left arrow.  That makes me do a double-take every time.

You have to take off into the wind!!!

[SP Cook]

BTW, with the US Airways withdrawl from Pittsburgh, the only "international" flights left are a "puddle jumper" Air Canada small plane to Toronto, a single Delta flight to Paris and some semi-charters to the Mexican beaches.

To my way of thinking the only reason anything but "airport" needs be on a sign is if there is a posibility of confusion.  In other words, if you get in a cab and say "airport" is that sufficient for the cabbie to take you where you wish to go? 

My list thus would be the following metro areas: New York, Baltimore-Washington, Chicago, LA, South Florida, Tampa Bay, Houston, Dallas-Fort Worth, and San Francisco Bay.

[Alex]

They just replaced the Pensacola Airport guide signs that one sees entering or exiting the airport. Some were unchanged from when I first saw them in 1993 until a few months ago. A few others were updated by 2001. No more microscopic Interstate shields...

[realjd]

it probably is.  PITTSBURGH AIRPORT should be sufficient notice for people, and be much clearer.  Let's face it, the ordinary traveler does not give three fifths of a smallish rat turd if your airport has two flights a day to Moose Knuckle, Newfoundland and is therefore called an INTERNATIONAL airport. 

It has nothing to do with scheduled passenger flight. An "international airport" in this country is one that has immigration/customs available. Just because they don't have passenger flights internationally doesn't mean they don't get general aviation or cargo flights in from other countries.

The reason they usually mark out the whole airport name is two-fold. Part of it is to eliminate confusion of course. Take Orlando for instance. There's Orlando International, Orlando-Sanford International, and Orlando Executive Airport, all not too far from the 417. The other reason they do it is just because that's the proper name of the airport. If the airport is officially called "Pittsburgh International Airport", I see no reason why they shouldn't put that on the sign. I do wish more places would use the airport symbol though on their signs in addition to the text.

[Scott5114]

Better "International" than what OKC has, which is "Will Rogers World Airport". If Airport weren't tacked on there, it sounds like a cheesy theme park patterned after a pithy Depression-era comedian. In a fit of irony, the minor executive airport in OKC is named after aviator Wiley Post–both Post and Rogers died in the same airplane crash!

The signage in Kansas City is rather clear. "K C I Airport" and "Johnson Co Exec Airport".

[Truvelo]

BTW, with the US Airways withdrawl from Pittsburgh, the only "international" flights left are a "puddle jumper" Air Canada small plane to Toronto, a single Delta flight to Paris and some semi-charters to the Mexican beaches.

In 2004 there was a direct flight to London. In 2006 I had to get a flight to Chicago and then a flight to the UK. Maybe the International tag should be revoked if there are no flights outside of North America?

[Brandon]

BTW, with the US Airways withdrawl from Pittsburgh, the only "international" flights left are a "puddle jumper" Air Canada small plane to Toronto, a single Delta flight to Paris and some semi-charters to the Mexican beaches.

In 2004 there was a direct flight to London. In 2006 I had to get a flight to Chicago and then a flight to the UK. Maybe the International tag should be revoked if there are no flights outside of North America?

The international tag is used if one can clear customs there.  Even Midway has an international tag due to this.

[agentsteel53]

The reason they usually mark out the whole airport name is two-fold. Part of it is to eliminate confusion of course. Take Orlando for instance. There's Orlando International, Orlando-Sanford International, and Orlando Executive Airport, all not too far from the 417. The other reason they do it is just because that's the proper name of the airport. If the airport is officially called "Pittsburgh International Airport", I see no reason why they shouldn't put that on the sign. I do wish more places would use the airport symbol though on their signs in addition to the text.

well then that should not be part of the name of the airport!  Having three airports called Orlando Airport, Orlando-Sanford Airport, and Orlando Executive Airport should be sufficient.

[agentsteel53]

I'd look instead at how the airports are referred to in ordinary speech. 

I do not know a single airport that is referred to as "international" in ordinary speech.  The closest I can think of is Denver, which is colloquially "DIA".  Initials pronounced individually; no explicit indication of what it stands for, though it is easy to guess. 

of course, "DIA" would be confusing to an out-of-towner, but the solution is not to add a bulky 13-letter word. 

I do not remember offhand what the signs say on I-25 northbound, which direct you to the airport via I-225 with at least a small airplane icon on every green sign, and I do not remember the signs saying "international" until you get to the Pena Boulevard turnoff on I-70.  I think it was just "to airport"?  With a symbol?  Will have to check either today or next week when I am back in the area.

[corco]

Locals around Casper jokingly refer to Casper Airport as "Casper International" since they employ one US Customs person (and the airport is proudly signed as Casper International), but that's the closest I can think of.

I-25 South at E-470 is Denver Intl


As is at I-270


So is C-470 at 25/E-470


So is I-70 West at Pena (in the background)


25 North at I-70 is just the symbol


as is US-85 North at E-470


There is one DIA sign I know of, and that's a trailblazer at the intersection of Colfax and Tower. I don't have a picture of it. Here's a street view- if it were clearer the text under the plane would say "DIA"