Changing Control Cities

[Flint1979]

What other city on I-70 should be there other than Baltimore? Just about everyone on I-70 is heading to Baltimore if they are on the eastern end of the route.

[Flint1979]

Does changing cities on the signs that have the distance to multiple cities count? Just south of exit 202 on southbound I-75 they list Standish, Bay City and Flint mentioning Flint instead of Saginaw. Standish and Bay City makes sense but I don't understand why Flint is mentioned in Saginaw isn't.

[ran4sh]

Changing the top or middle line of a distance sign doesn't count (the MUTCD even advises that the middle line can be different on successive signs in order to provide information for different destinations), although those technically aren't control cities. Strictly speaking, on a distance sign, it is the bottom line that has the control city.

[Flint1979]

Flint is the control city after Saginaw, I'm just saying that Saginaw should be mentioned Flint is 87 miles from there. Saginaw is right around 50 miles.

[kphoger]

A non-roadgeek has reported on OKCTalk that they saw a sign using Dallas of all things as a control city on the southbound Kansas Turnpike south of Wichita. I asked him for a more specific location so I could try and track it down, since I don't remember seeing that on my last trip through the area in November 2019.

J.N. or Kyle, do you know anything about this?

I'm not aware of any, but...

1.  I haven't been south of Exit #39 since 13 months ago.

2.  I never use any of the exits between there and the Oklahoma line so, if it was at an on-ramp, then I wouldn't know anyway.

[webny99]

A non-roadgeek has reported on OKCTalk that they saw a sign using Dallas of all things as a control city on the southbound Kansas Turnpike south of Wichita. I asked him for a more specific location so I could try and track it down, since I don't remember seeing that on my last trip through the area in November 2019.

J.N. or Kyle, do you know anything about this?

I'm not aware of any, but...

1.  I haven't been south of Exit #39 since 13 months ago.

2.  I never use any of the exits between there and the Oklahoma line so, if it was at an on-ramp, then I wouldn't know anyway.

I actually checked the Street View of most of the on-ramps just for fun on Friday, and didn't see any that mentioned Dallas. Could it be on a post-interchange mileage sign, possibly?

[HighwayStar]

What other city on I-70 should be there other than Baltimore? Just about everyone on I-70 is heading to Baltimore if they are on the eastern end of the route.

That's fine, but since the highway does not go there it needs to say "Baltimore Beltway" or something to that effect.

[Flint1979]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

[HighwayStar]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)

[kphoger]

the highway does not actually serve Baltimore

Yes it does.

as intended

meh.  Get over it.

[jmacswimmer]

I might point out that even though I-70 dead-ends before downtown Baltimore (but just inside the city limits ), there is still a continuously-signed route to Baltimore in terms of control cities:

-I-695 SB from I-70
-Then, I-95 NB after a couple miles
-And finally, the glorified ramp that is I-395!!! (And I-95 promptly changes to its next control city)

So it's not as though they leave you hanging (in terms of control cities) on how to get into Baltimore from the west upon reaching I-695.

[webny99]

I might point out that even though I-70 dead-ends before downtown Baltimore (but just inside the city limits ), there is still a continuously-signed route to Baltimore in terms of control cities:
...

So it's not as though they leave you hanging (in terms of control cities) on how to get into Baltimore from the west upon reaching I-695.

Really no different - if anything perhaps even less egregious - than Rochester being used on I-390. Similar to I-70, I-390 was also supposed to extend northward and meet I-490 near downtown, but was canned due to local opposition.

Not a big deal: of course you're going to have to figure out your way to downtown once you get close, unless the freeway is some sort of super-freeway that lands you right at the exact intersection at the exact center of town.

[Flint1979]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)

Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.

[HighwayStar]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)

Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.

Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.

[Scott5114]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)

Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.

Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.

It's okay to be wrong.

[HighwayStar]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)

Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.

Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.

It's okay to be wrong.

Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.

[Rothman]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)

Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.

Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.

It's okay to be wrong.

Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.

I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore. 

[HighwayStar]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)

Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.

Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.

It's okay to be wrong.

Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.

I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.

Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.

[Rothman]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)

Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.

Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.

It's okay to be wrong.

Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.

I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.

Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.

There's an interchange before the parking lot.  Even then, not sure how else you'd get to Baltimore from the west. 

Seems pretty silly to insist that a highway that gets you to within such a short distance of the city doesn't get you to the city.

Like someone else said, it's okay to be wrong.

[The Nature Boy]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)

Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.

Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.

It's okay to be wrong.

Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.

I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.

Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.

Should we not sign Boston on I-84 from I-91 exit in Hartford? It's the best way to get to Boston so it makes sense to sign it.

For that matter, should we not sign Boston on I-95? I-95 doesn't actually enter Boston at all nor does any of its 3dis.

[Scott5114]

British signage practice in cases where a road didn't actually reach the control city, but instead led to a road that did, used to be to put it in parenthesis, like "(Baltimore)".

They stopped doing this in 1994, probably because they realized nobody cares.

[webny99]

... I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.

I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.

Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.

Of course you have to use other roads to get to the city center. ↓ See quote below. ↓

Really no different - if anything perhaps even less egregious - than Rochester being used on I-390. Similar to I-70, I-390 was also supposed to extend northward and meet I-490 near downtown, but was canned due to local opposition.

Not a big deal: of course you're going to have to figure out your way to downtown once you get close, unless the freeway is some sort of super-freeway that lands you right at the exact intersection at the exact center of town.

And there are countless other examples that could be mentioned, like Cleveland being used on I-80 and Denver being used I-76. If it gets you to the metro area, it's generally fine.

[jp the roadgeek]

Well, NJ continues to sign Trenton and Camden as controls on the NJTP although it requires a 7 mile jog west on I-195 and NJ 29 to get to.  Plus, it still uses Camden south of 7A despite the fact I-95 passes Camden on the other side of a major river and in another state.

[Flint1979]

Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.

No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)

Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.

Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.

It's okay to be wrong.

Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.

I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.

Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.

So what? You are already in the Baltimore area. Your reasoning for not using Baltimore is pretty lame because I-70 takes you to Baltimore. So what if you have to use another route to get there when you are already in the metro area? I-80 doesn't go to NYC but New York is the control city on I-80, you going to change that one too?

[Flint1979]

... I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.

I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.

Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.

Of course you have to use other roads to get to the city center. ↓ See quote below. ↓

Really no different - if anything perhaps even less egregious - than Rochester being used on I-390. Similar to I-70, I-390 was also supposed to extend northward and meet I-490 near downtown, but was canned due to local opposition.

Not a big deal: of course you're going to have to figure out your way to downtown once you get close, unless the freeway is some sort of super-freeway that lands you right at the exact intersection at the exact center of town.

And there are countless other examples that could be mentioned, like Cleveland being used on I-80 and Denver being used I-76. If it gets you to the metro area, it's generally fine.

I suppose he thinks Flint should be changed on I-275. That one was probably done when I-275 was still planning on ending up at I-75 on the north end. But you can still get to Flint via I-96 and US-23.