DST (2018)

[jon daly]

Oh yeah it's more than that. It's not helping the electric bill.

[KEVIN_224]

Here's a good argument for why Indianapolis should be in the Central Time Zone: Nashville.

Indianapolis-  86:08:46 West
Nashville - 86:47:04 West

My guess the other reason they haven't been switched? South Bend/Elkhart and western lower Michigan.

I stayed in Indianapolis for 3 nights in August 2010. Preseason NFL football was on that weekend from Nashville. Looking out the hotel window and Nashville on TV? The dwindling light at dusk was virtually the same!

Going in the other direction...Putting Maine on Atlantic Standard Time would be a nice way to isolate them from the rest of New England. I will point out that Portland's sunset a couple days before the wintet solstice is as early as about 4:03 maybe?

The Hartford, CT sunset today? A whopping 4:42 pm.

[jon daly]

^ That's about 3 minutes later than Mystic. I was actually in Rhode Island at the time, so the sun set even earlier.

[Scott5114]

Our refrigerator is 30 years old, despite the shorter lifespan of new refrigerators. About 15—20 years ago, products stopped being built to last; older products that are built to last probably don't need to be replaced.

Funny you say that, because I'm sure my folks said pretty much the same thing in 1998.

[Henry]

Our refrigerator is 30 years old, despite the shorter lifespan of new refrigerators. About 15–20 years ago, products stopped being built to last; older products that are built to last probably don't need to be replaced.

Funny you say that, because I'm sure my folks said pretty much the same thing in 1998.

For my parents, that would be 2004, as it would've been 30 years since they bought their first (and so far, only) house.

[webny99]

In the spring, it helps to theoretically "lose" your hour during the day so as not to lose any sleep

Not sure I could pull that off. I get tired when I get tired, so I'd still feel like I was waking up early the next day.

For me, anyways, it is much harder to shave an hour's worth of activities off of my day, than it is to go to sleep an hour early. I tend to be the most awake/alert in the mid-morning and the evening, but even so, I have enough of what you might call a sleep backlog that I wouldn't have trouble falling asleep even during those time periods.

[webny99]

Our refrigerator is 30 years old, despite the shorter lifespan of new refrigerators. About 15—20 years ago, products stopped being built to last; older products that are built to last probably don't need to be replaced.

Funny you say that, because I'm sure my folks said pretty much the same thing in 1998.

I think every generation says that. I would say that my grandparents said the same thing in 1978, but I wasn't alive, so I wouldn't be able to verify. 

[hotdogPi]

Our refrigerator is 30 years old, despite the shorter lifespan of new refrigerators. About 15—20 years ago, products stopped being built to last; older products that are built to last probably don't need to be replaced.

Funny you say that, because I'm sure my folks said pretty much the same thing in 1998.

I think every generation says that. I would say that my grandparents said the same thing in 1978, but I wasn't alive, so I wouldn't be able to verify. 

China and other nearby countries didn't make a whole bunch of our products until a few decades ago. I'm not sure if it was prominent in 1978, but definitely not a generation before that.

[Road Hog]

Here's a good argument for why Indianapolis should be in the Central Time Zone: Nashville.

Indianapolis-  86:08:46 West
Nashville - 86:47:04 West

My guess the other reason they haven't been switched? South Bend/Elkhart and western lower Michigan.

I stayed in Indianapolis for 3 nights in August 2010. Preseason NFL football was on that weekend from Nashville. Looking out the hotel window and Nashville on TV? The dwindling light at dusk was virtually the same!

I've camped out a few times southeast of Nashville in June and the sun was well above the horizon at 5 a.m. local time.

[vdeane]

I noticed that I was definitely a LOT more awake during my morning routine this morning.  It was nice.  I like being able to get in to work without panicking about running late because it took me a while to start doing things at a reasonable pace.

Oddly enough, I was unusually tired last night, so I might be having a harder time adjusting as I get older (maybe the true reason why there's such a big push these days to end the time changes?).  Then again, I also was unusually tired Saturday night, which I would think would be unrelated to the time change, so it might be something else.

[kphoger]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before–I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed–but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Those 10-year individual devices are maintenance free, the battery is not replaceable and supposed to last for 10 years, then a new device must be installed. There are actually 10-year batteries for old style detectors as well. 10 years are actually subject to activation frequency and such...

To make things more interesting, newer code has requirements for interconnected alarms in each area. For our house that means going from single alarm (we passed inspection OK) to 8-10, depending on how you count (at least 4 of those, 3 BR + corridor, must be within 10 feet radius). Fortunately, we're grandfathered in - this is major renovation/new construction only.
They have to be interconnected, so if one detects something - all of them sound. Since each spot has to be wired, going to grid power with battery backup is a no-brainer. 

I just found about smoke alarm expiration dates very recently.  I can say with confidence that there are ten-year smoke alarms with replaceable batteries.  I know this because my wife just finished becoming a state-licensed home daycare provider.  We had replaced all the batteries in the smoke alarms in advance of the fire marshall coming to inspect the house, but we ended up needing to replace two or three of the alarms themselves because they were expired.  It was the first either one of us had heard of an expiration date on a smoke alarm.  But do be assured that they were not "maintenance free", nor were the batteries "not replaceable".  I know because I had personally just finished replacing their batteries.

[webny99]

Oddly enough, I was unusually tired last night, so I might be having a harder time adjusting as I get older

It certainly follows that when 10:00 was 11:00 the night before, you would feel more tired than you usually would at 10:00. I know I was extra-tired last night as well, so it doesn't seem that odd.

[DaBigE]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before–I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed–but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Those 10-year individual devices are maintenance free, the battery is not replaceable and supposed to last for 10 years, then a new device must be installed. There are actually 10-year batteries for old style detectors as well. 10 years are actually subject to activation frequency and such...

To make things more interesting, newer code has requirements for interconnected alarms in each area. For our house that means going from single alarm (we passed inspection OK) to 8-10, depending on how you count (at least 4 of those, 3 BR + corridor, must be within 10 feet radius). Fortunately, we're grandfathered in - this is major renovation/new construction only.
They have to be interconnected, so if one detects something - all of them sound. Since each spot has to be wired, going to grid power with battery backup is a no-brainer. 

I just found about smoke alarm expiration dates very recently.  I can say with confidence that there are ten-year smoke alarms with replaceable batteries.  I know this because my wife just finished becoming a state-licensed home daycare provider.  We had replaced all the batteries in the smoke alarms in advance of the fire marshall coming to inspect the house, but we ended up needing to replace two or three of the alarms themselves because they were expired.  It was the first either one of us had heard of an expiration date on a smoke alarm.  But do be assured that they were not "maintenance free", nor were the batteries "not replaceable".  I know because I had personally just finished replacing their batteries.

From what various fire department personnel have told me, it's not just the battery that needs to be replaced. The materials used in the process to detect heat and/or smoke also have a finite life due to dust and decomposition (the latter likely due to today's cheaper materials). While still usable after ten years, they're not as effective as they once were.

You could likely get more life out of them by a basic vacuuming, (like I recall my parents doing to theirs years ago), but they make today's smoke detectors as tamper-proof/evident as possible, making such a task not really worth the effort.

[kphoger]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before–I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed–but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Those 10-year individual devices are maintenance free, the battery is not replaceable and supposed to last for 10 years, then a new device must be installed. There are actually 10-year batteries for old style detectors as well. 10 years are actually subject to activation frequency and such...

To make things more interesting, newer code has requirements for interconnected alarms in each area. For our house that means going from single alarm (we passed inspection OK) to 8-10, depending on how you count (at least 4 of those, 3 BR + corridor, must be within 10 feet radius). Fortunately, we're grandfathered in - this is major renovation/new construction only.
They have to be interconnected, so if one detects something - all of them sound. Since each spot has to be wired, going to grid power with battery backup is a no-brainer. 

I just found about smoke alarm expiration dates very recently.  I can say with confidence that there are ten-year smoke alarms with replaceable batteries.  I know this because my wife just finished becoming a state-licensed home daycare provider.  We had replaced all the batteries in the smoke alarms in advance of the fire marshall coming to inspect the house, but we ended up needing to replace two or three of the alarms themselves because they were expired.  It was the first either one of us had heard of an expiration date on a smoke alarm.  But do be assured that they were not "maintenance free", nor were the batteries "not replaceable".  I know because I had personally just finished replacing their batteries.

From what various fire department personnel have told me, it's not just the battery that needs to be replaced. The materials used in the process to detect heat and/or smoke also have a finite life due to dust and decomposition (the latter likely due to today's cheaper materials). While still usable after ten years, they're not as effective as they once were.

You could likely get more life out of them by a basic vacuuming, (like I recall my parents doing to theirs years ago), but they make today's smoke detectors as tamper-proof/evident as possible, making such a task not really worth the effort.

Well, vacuuming ours wouldn't have helped one bit, considering that we were required to have them replaced.  Vacuuming doesn't change the date on the sticker.

[DaBigE]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before—I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed—but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Those 10-year individual devices are maintenance free, the battery is not replaceable and supposed to last for 10 years, then a new device must be installed. There are actually 10-year batteries for old style detectors as well. 10 years are actually subject to activation frequency and such...

To make things more interesting, newer code has requirements for interconnected alarms in each area. For our house that means going from single alarm (we passed inspection OK) to 8-10, depending on how you count (at least 4 of those, 3 BR + corridor, must be within 10 feet radius). Fortunately, we're grandfathered in - this is major renovation/new construction only.
They have to be interconnected, so if one detects something - all of them sound. Since each spot has to be wired, going to grid power with battery backup is a no-brainer. 

I just found about smoke alarm expiration dates very recently.  I can say with confidence that there are ten-year smoke alarms with replaceable batteries.  I know this because my wife just finished becoming a state-licensed home daycare provider.  We had replaced all the batteries in the smoke alarms in advance of the fire marshall coming to inspect the house, but we ended up needing to replace two or three of the alarms themselves because they were expired.  It was the first either one of us had heard of an expiration date on a smoke alarm.  But do be assured that they were not "maintenance free", nor were the batteries "not replaceable".  I know because I had personally just finished replacing their batteries.

From what various fire department personnel have told me, it's not just the battery that needs to be replaced. The materials used in the process to detect heat and/or smoke also have a finite life due to dust and decomposition (the latter likely due to today's cheaper materials). While still usable after ten years, they're not as effective as they once were.

You could likely get more life out of them by a basic vacuuming, (like I recall my parents doing to theirs years ago), but they make today's smoke detectors as tamper-proof/evident as possible, making such a task not really worth the effort.

Well, vacuuming ours wouldn't have helped one bit, considering that we were required to have them replaced.  Vacuuming doesn't change the date on the sticker.

The vacuuming reference was meant to be in general, not specific to your situation. I figured trying to defeat a date code was obviously out of the question.

[vdeane]

Oddly enough, I was unusually tired last night, so I might be having a harder time adjusting as I get older

It certainly follows that when 10:00 was 11:00 the night before, you would feel more tired than you usually would at 10:00. I know I was extra-tired last night as well, so it doesn't seem that odd.

That's the thing, though - in the past, I never noticed the change, nor am I usually tired at night period (if I am tired during evening/night, most if the time it means I've either been staying up too late the past few nights, I'm sick, I've done a ton of driving, or I pulled an all-nighter the previous night).

[kphoger]

Oddly enough, I was unusually tired last night, so I might be having a harder time adjusting as I get older

It certainly follows that when 10:00 was 11:00 the night before, you would feel more tired than you usually would at 10:00. I know I was extra-tired last night as well, so it doesn't seem that odd.

That's the thing, though - in the past, I never noticed the change, nor am I usually tired at night period (if I am tired during evening/night, most if the time it means I've either been staying up too late the past few nights, I'm sick, I've done a ton of driving, or I pulled an all-nighter the previous night).

It's affecting me more this year than ever before too:  I'm tired by 9 PM, and then I wake up at 5 AM and can't get back to sleep.

[tradephoric]

Voters in California passed Proposition 7 by a 60/40 vote which will pave the way for year-round daylight saving time in the state.  Over the past year, two of the three most populous states in the nation (California and Florida) have signaled to the federal government that they wish to abandon the biannual time changes and stay on daylight saving time year-round. 

California voters embrace year-round daylight-saving time
https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/California-voters-embrace-year-round-13369419.php

As of this morning 93% of precincts have reported and the results of Proposition 7 stands at 59.9% yes (3,974,358 votes) and 40.1% no (2,663,486 votes).  https://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/ballot-measures

[kphoger]

(too lazy to read the linked articles)

How would this work, exactly?  AIUI, anywhere that observes DST has to observe the same start and end times as everyone else.  Therefore, if California and Florida were to be granted permission to go full-time DST, then wouldn't the government have to mandate full-time DST for every other state as well?  So wouldn't the simpler solution be to simply put California on MST (just like Arizona) and Florida on AST?  Then they can simply opt out of DST and the result is still what they want.

[MikeTheActuary]

So wouldn't the simpler solution be to simply put California on MST (just like Arizona) and Florida on AST?  Then they can simply opt out of DST and the result is still what they want.

You're expecting people to do sensible things.  That almost never happens. 

[kalvado]

(too lazy to read the linked articles)

How would this work, exactly?  AIUI, anywhere that observes DST has to observe the same start and end times as everyone else.

Yeah, federal laws definitely supersede state ones, the same way as they do with marijuana.

[roadman]

I suppose this is a slight threadjack, but I was at Home Depot last weekend and I noted their display of smoke detectors said you should replace the devices every ten years. I'd never heard that before—I just replace the 9-volt batteries in our three detectors as needed—but maybe kalvado's comment provides the answer. Are the newer devices that much better than the older ones that it's worth looking into replacing them? Ours are at least 17 years old because that's how long I've lived in this house, and I assume they're the original ones the builder installed when the house was built in 1993. They still work fine, based on the noise one of them made when I filled the kitchen with smoke while cooking on the stove a few weeks ago.

Our refrigerator is 30 years old, despite the shorter lifespan of new refrigerators. About 15–20 years ago, products stopped being built to last; older products that are built to last probably don't need to be replaced.

I never scraped off enough money at once to replace my tv, so I still have one from 1999 that works fine.

Depending on how much you view your TV, an old CRT unit burns more energy, I would hazard to guess 1-2 cents worth of power per day, or $5/year.
Add $25-50 disposal fee many places now charge for CRT units, and you may be saving less than you think...

My old CRT TV (bought in 2002) finally bit the dust last February.  Got a new flat screen, but haven't noticed an appreciable difference in my electric bill since.

And there's something just plain wrong with the idea of having to pay a fee to have your old TV hauled away.

[oscar]

And there's something just plain wrong with the idea of having to pay a fee to have your old TV hauled away.

When the old TV is hazardous waste (as my county classifies CRT TVs and computer monitors), it makes a lot of sense. FWIW, my county encourages disposal of flat-screen TVs through its household hazardous waste program, but does not charge a disposal fee for them.

[US 89]

How would this work, exactly?  AIUI, anywhere that observes DST has to observe the same start and end times as everyone else.  Therefore, if California and Florida were to be granted permission to go full-time DST, then wouldn't the government have to mandate full-time DST for every other state as well?  So wouldn't the simpler solution be to simply put California on MST (just like Arizona) and Florida on AST?  Then they can simply opt out of DST and the result is still what they want.

Yes, that's the easier (and more likely) way to do it. It's what Saskatchewan does in Canada; they run CST year round as a permanent MDT.

Saskatchewan can get away with this because it's on the time zone line anyway. But California isn't. The problem with California switching to permanent PDT/MST is Nevada, which would be almost completely surrounded by MST states while running PST itself. There would be a one-hour time change forward to drive either west or east across the state. Issues might also arise where communities along the Nevada or Oregon borders would prefer to stay on the time zone of their neighboring states, either officially or unofficially. There is precedent for this, but it would be extremely confusing for the average traveler.

[kphoger]

(too lazy to read the linked articles)

How would this work, exactly?  AIUI, anywhere that observes DST has to observe the same start and end times as everyone else.

Yeah, federal laws definitely supersede state ones, the same way as they do with marijuana.

Except that state law enforcement can simply choose not to enforce marijuana laws.  That's not really analogous to DST.