Road-related pet peeves

[J N Winkler]

Regardless of adaptive cruise control versus traditional cruise control, one thing Acura has that I wish more automakers provided is a "cancel" button so you can de-activate the cruise control without stepping on the brake or the clutch.

Didn't that become more or less universal by the mid-2000's among cars equipped with traditional cruise control?  The only car left in the family fleet without a cancel button (or equivalent--on Toyotas you just tug on the stalk) is my 1994 Saturn SL2.

[kphoger]

2.  Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?

I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.

It can also be unsafe to enter a travel lane at 2 mph.

I'd much rather merge at approximately the speed of traffic.  Doesn't take very long to get up to speed.

[vdeane]

2.  Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?

I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.

It can also be unsafe to enter a travel lane at 2 mph.

I'd much rather merge at approximately the speed of traffic.  Doesn't take very long to get up to speed.

The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.  If you're waiting for a gap in traffic, there's nothing to merge into, and you'll be up to speed by the time any traffic at the far side of that gap catches up to you.

[kphoger]

The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.

Says who?

In my state, driving in a TWLTL is explicitly permitted "when preparing for or making a left turn from or into the roadway or when preparing for or making a U-turn when otherwise permitted by law".  No legal distinction is made between "from" and "into".  If I can decelerate in that lane when left-turning from the road, then why can't I accelerate in that lane when left-turning into the road?

[J N Winkler]

The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.

Says who?

In my state, driving in a TWLTL is explicitly permitted "when preparing for or making a left turn from or into the roadway or when preparing for or making a U-turn when otherwise permitted by law".  No legal distinction is made between "from" and "into".  If I can decelerate in that lane when left-turning from the road, then why can't I accelerate in that lane when left-turning into the road?

It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal.  It is desirable to limit travel (and thus the opportunity for head-on collisions) in the TWLTL, and it takes more length and time to accelerate up to speed than to brake to a near-stop.

[kphoger]

It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal.  It is desirable to limit travel (and thus the opportunity for head-on collisions) in the TWLTL

And I think it's advisable to limit merging into a travel lane at 2 mph (and thus the opportunity for rear-end collisions).

You do you.

[vdeane]

The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.

Says who?

In my state, driving in a TWLTL is explicitly permitted "when preparing for or making a left turn from or into the roadway or when preparing for or making a U-turn when otherwise permitted by law".  No legal distinction is made between "from" and "into".  If I can decelerate in that lane when left-turning from the road, then why can't I accelerate in that lane when left-turning into the road?

The people who ran the driver's ed course I took in the summer of 2008 (physically based at the high school and I think the instructors where a couple of the teachers, though it was actually a BOCES course rather than directly offered by the school).  I don't recall fully what they said about decelerating into the lane, but they did emphasize limiting the distance you travel in the lane.

What's interesting is that even though more people where I live try to use the TWLT lane as an acceleration lane than to stop and wait for a gap, they don't use it as a deceleration lane.  What's usually seen is people will slow down in the travel lane and then move into the TWLT lane when they actually need to either stop or make the turn.

[Quillz]

I am describing a very specific context: I'm in the rightmost or middle lane. So people can always go around me. I'm talking very specifically about tailgaters, people who come up directly behind me. You've probably encountered them. I've seen recently this seems to be happening less since I'm in general driving a little slower. I'm accelereating a little bit slower than I normally would so this seems to annoy them enough they now go around me. This is good, I hate tailgaters and it's dangerous. Let them bother someone else.

I'll have to admit, it is unnerving to be travelling slightly over the speed limit in the rightmost lane when someone comes flying up behind you at 30MPH over the speed limit and tailgates in the hopes that you will change to the middle lanes.  It's becoming very difficult to merge onto wide freeway sections (3 or lanes wide) for the same reason.  Worse, in many cases they appear to be using adaptive speed control set for over 100MPH.

I set my adaptive to five over the speed limit when in rush hour, otherwise I'll make it to match flow of traffic, usually at least 10-15 above what is posted. That's exactly what I'm getting at: I'm going the speed limit, or safely above it, and people just get on my ass hoping I move over, when I'm specifically in the rightmost lane for that reason. It's also dangerous because when I need to brake, well, so do they. If what I'm doing is making people move away from me so they annoy others, good.

Reminds me of a local guy around here. Drives a Ferrari and of course as a result thinks he owns the road. Speeds, honks, blows through stop signs. One day he smashed up his car right in front of the local middle school, and nearly killed his kid in the front seat. A month later, he had a new Ferrari and didn't learn a thing, he was speeding with his kid like nothing happened. Maybe his kid will need to get killed in an accident to learn to have better behavior.

[Quillz]

Regardless of adaptive cruise control versus traditional cruise control, one thing Acura has that I wish more automakers provided is a "cancel" button so you can de-activate the cruise control without stepping on the brake or the clutch.

Didn't that become more or less universal by the mid-2000's among cars equipped with traditional cruise control?  The only car left in the family fleet without a cancel button (or equivalent--on Toyotas you just tug on the stalk) is my 1994 Saturn SL2.

My 2015 Jeep Wrangler had a cancel button and traditional cruise control. I always forgot to use it, though.

[kphoger]

The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.

Says who?

The people who ran the driver's ed course I took in the summer of 2008

Ah, I see.  Well, that doesn't make them right.

[J N Winkler]

And I think it's advisable to limit merging into a travel lane at 2 mph (and thus the opportunity for rear-end collisions).

I don't think "merging into a travel lane at 2 MPH" is an accurate description.  In terms of gap acceptance, it is more like making a right turn, and the risk of rear-end collisions should be no higher.  Physics also says a rear-end collision is much more forgiving than a head-on collision involving two vehicles moving at speed in opposite directions.

[kphoger]

More like making a right turn from a Yield-controlled slip lane than making a right turn from a Stop-controlled 90-degree intersection, I suppose.

[tmoore952]

It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal.

^^
I agree with this concept.

[kphoger]

It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal.

^^
I agree with this concept.

And I get the concept.  But what "vdeane" said was that "you aren't supposed to".  To me, that means "you aren't allowed to".  I suppose maybe it doesn't mean that to everyone.

At any rate, my wife is from Branson.  Using the TWLTL and then merging in is what's called "driving" over there.  If you don't learn TWLTL skills in Branson, then you never get to where you're going.  On the other hand, it's also somewhat common there to see drivers "preparing" for their left turn by driving a half-mile in the TWLTL.  My wife's driver's ed teacher was keen on teaching the students to check behind them before sliding over into the TWLTL, just to be sure there isn't such a driver coming up fast from behind.)

[hbelkins]

It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal.

^^
I agree with this concept.

And I get the concept.  But what "vdeane" said was that "you aren't supposed to".  To me, that means "you aren't allowed to".  I suppose maybe it doesn't mean that to everyone.

At any rate, my wife is from Branson.  Using the TWLTL and then merging in is what's called "driving" over there.  If you don't learn TWLTL skills in Branson, then you never get to where you're going.  On the other hand, it's also somewhat common there to see drivers "preparing" for their left turn by driving a half-mile in the TWLTL.  My wife's driver's ed teacher was keen on teaching the students to check behind them before sliding over into the TWLTL, just to be sure there isn't such a driver coming up fast from behind.)

This is a frequent occurrence at the turn to my office.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/42H8QSWdWevD89c2A

A TWLTL becomes a left-turn lane prior to the signal at KY 15 and Jett Drive. Typically, I will not turn left into the turn lane until the striping changes from yellow to white. It's not uncommon for someone who's been behind me to cut into the late in the vicinity of the funeral home and speed past me to make the left turn. I have to watch very carefully to make sure I don't cut into someone who's pulling alongside me.

[kphoger]

It is a question of what is advisable rather than what is legal.

^^
I agree with this concept.

And I get the concept.  But what "vdeane" said was that "you aren't supposed to".  To me, that means "you aren't allowed to".  I suppose maybe it doesn't mean that to everyone.

At any rate, my wife is from Branson.  Using the TWLTL and then merging in is what's called "driving" over there.  If you don't learn TWLTL skills in Branson, then you never get to where you're going.  On the other hand, it's also somewhat common there to see drivers "preparing" for their left turn by driving a half-mile in the TWLTL.  My wife's driver's ed teacher was keen on teaching the students to check behind them before sliding over into the TWLTL, just to be sure there isn't such a driver coming up fast from behind.)

This is a frequent occurrence at the turn to my office.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/42H8QSWdWevD89c2A

A TWLTL becomes a left-turn lane prior to the signal at KY 15 and Jett Drive. Typically, I will not turn left into the turn lane until the striping changes from yellow to white. It's not uncommon for someone who's been behind me to cut into the late in the vicinity of the funeral home and speed past me to make the left turn. I have to watch very carefully to make sure I don't cut into someone who's pulling alongside me.

Not uncommon in a lot of places, really.  I don't mind cutting over before the striping switches from yellow to white, and I do so with some frequency, but I only do it with hesitation and extra caution.

But in Branson, there's often so much traffic that the tailback from a red light can easily extend a half-mile or more—and left-turning drivers approaching the tail of that tailback are often all to happy to just cruise past everyone the whole way in the TWLTL.  And, really, it's hard (but certainly not impossible!) to blame them.

[CovalenceSTU]

The thing is, when using TWLT lanes to turn onto a road you aren't supposed to merge.

Says who?

In my state, driving in a TWLTL is explicitly permitted "when preparing for or making a left turn from or into the roadway or when preparing for or making a U-turn when otherwise permitted by law".  No legal distinction is made between "from" and "into".  If I can decelerate in that lane when left-turning from the road, then why can't I accelerate in that lane when left-turning into the road?

It's specifically not allowed in my state:

A person who turns into a special left turn lane from an alley, driveway or other entrance to the highway that has the special left turn lane is in violation of this section if the person does anything other than stop in the lane and merge into traffic in the lane immediately to the right of the person's vehicle.

[VTGoose]

When the left turn green arrow comes on, and the guy first in line isn't paying attention, and he makes you miss the arrow. And there's 2 or 3 cars between you, so you don't honk because you don't want to make it look like you think it's their fault.

Related to this is the person who lollygags through the turn like there is no one else behind them who also wants to make that left on the green arrow. A side corollary to this is the left-turning person who waits back at the stop bar instead of drifting into the intersection ready to make the turn when there is a break in oncoming traffic. When there is a break, they are too far back to take advantage or they have time to make their turn but the next car is stuck when the gap closes.

[kphoger]

Related to this is the person who lollygags through the turn like there is no one else behind them who also wants to make that left on the green arrow.

Sometimes I'm hauling something that might tip over or spill, so gradual turns are a must.  If I'm heading to a dinner party with a pot full of chili, then I care a lot more about chili spilling all over the floorboard than I do about how much of a hurry the guy behind me is in.

In my current vehicle, if the oil level drops below a certain level, then quick left turns cause the oil to slosh to one side of the timing cover, and the timing chain clatters due to lack of lubrication.  If I start hearing that sound but haven't had the chance to top off the oil, then I care a lot more about avoiding a multi-thousand-dollar engine repair than I do about how much of a hurry the guy behind me is in.

I'm sure there are other reasons that other drivers have for turning left more slowly than you'd like.

A side corollary to this is the left-turning person who waits back at the stop bar instead of drifting into the intersection ready to make the turn when there is a break in oncoming traffic. When there is a break, they are too far back to take advantage or they have time to make their turn but the next car is stuck when the gap closes.

I usually wait behind the stop bar until I notice a gap in traffic, but then I move out into the intersection a couple of seconds before the gap actually forms, so I don't actually spend much time in the middle of the intersection before turning.  I figure that's the best of both worlds.

Yesterday evening, I saw a driver on the cross-street waiting behind the stop bar with a HYUUUGE (Trump-style) gap to turn left through, but the driver just sat there behind the stop bar, not turning.  The light changed before any other gap appeared.  I'm glad nobody was behind them;  I'd have been ticked.



My left-turn pet peeve:  When the person behind me thinks I'm not turning left quickly enough, so they immediately turn into the wrong lane (the far lane) and zoom around me.  I'm very aware of other traffic around me.  I change lanes immediately after turning left if I notice someone wanting to go faster, but they don't even give me the opportunity.

[hbelkins]

^^^

Isn't it illegal in some states to pull out into the intersection to wait to turn? Or to be in the intersection when the light turns red?

If I'm in a place with photo enforcement (I'm looking at you, Kingsport, Tenn.) then I make sure I'm positioned behind the stop bar while waiting to make a left turn. I don't want to get caught out in the intersection when the light turns red and the camera goes off.

[webny99]

My left-turn pet peeve:  When the person behind me thinks I'm not turning left quickly enough, so they immediately turn into the wrong lane (the far lane) and zoom around me.  I'm very aware of other traffic around me.  I change lanes immediately after turning left if I notice someone wanting to go faster, but they don't even give me the opportunity.

In this situation I usually try to complete the turn into the correct lane first, then immediately put my blinker on, then switch lanes to pass them if they have shown no indication of doing so. There's a right turn on my commute like this where I will admit that the turning and passing movements sometimes blend into one simultaneous movement, especially if I'm behind a large truck or vehicle that's otherwise slow to accelerate.

If I'm in a place with photo enforcement (I'm looking at you, Kingsport, Tenn.) then I make sure I'm positioned behind the stop bar while waiting to make a left turn. I don't want to get caught out in the intersection when the light turns red and the camera goes off.

Is there any concrete evidence of left-turners being ticketed for going on red? That's just SOP for the first car in line in most places; I would be stunned if drivers are actually being ticketed for it if they're already waiting to turn.

[wanderer2575]

2.  Why would you rather a vehicle enter the travel lane at 2 mph instead of the at roughly the flow of traffic?

I interpreted it as people who turn into TWLTL's and use them as an acceleration lane, when it can be unsafe (and illegal) to travel more then a short distance in them.

It can also be unsafe to enter a travel lane at 2 mph.

I'd much rather merge at approximately the speed of traffic.  Doesn't take very long to get up to speed.

Getting up to speed wasn't my trigger.  It's somebody pulling into the TWLTL right next to me and then matching my speed, thus being a rolling blockade when I want to pull into that lane to make a left turn.  Happened to me twice this week.

Speaking of keeping abreast:  The driver who slows down to make a lane change but keeps abreast of the vehicle already in that lane, thus driving slowly with the blinker on for a half mile.

Also:  Pedestrian signals that show Walk for two seconds, then show flashing Don't Walk and then solid Don't Walk for the remainder of the green light time.  Why even bother installing a pedestrian signal if it's going to be programmed to show Don't Walk all the time?

[jeffandnicole]

Also:  Pedestrian signals that show Walk for two seconds, then show flashing Don't Walk and then solid Don't Walk for the remainder of the green light time.  Why even bother installing a pedestrian signal if it's going to be programmed to show Don't Walk all the time?

This may be a function of on-demand signals or signals that adjust based on traffic flow. If the light needs to change, it can do so anytime the Don't Walk is solid red. Otherwise, it would have to go thru its countdown phase, wasting time when there's no traffic.

[Big John]

Also:  Pedestrian signals that show Walk for two seconds, then show flashing Don't Walk and then solid Don't Walk for the remainder of the green light time.  Why even bother installing a pedestrian signal if it's going to be programmed to show Don't Walk all the time?

This may be a function of on-demand signals or signals that adjust based on traffic flow. If the light needs to change, it can do so anytime the Don't Walk is solid red. Otherwise, it would have to go thru its countdown phase, wasting time when there's no traffic.

MUTCD calls for it to be Portland orange.

[wanderer2575]

Also:  Pedestrian signals that show Walk for two seconds, then show flashing Don't Walk and then solid Don't Walk for the remainder of the green light time.  Why even bother installing a pedestrian signal if it's going to be programmed to show Don't Walk all the time?

This may be a function of on-demand signals or signals that adjust based on traffic flow. If the light needs to change, it can do so anytime the Don't Walk is solid red. Otherwise, it would have to go thru its countdown phase, wasting time when there's no traffic.

Even if so, that doesn't answer the question.  If the pedestrian signal is going to show Don't Walk all the time to allow for flexible traffic signal timing, why is it there?  And the ones around me that do this don't have a pushbutton to request a longer crossing time, so don't suggest that.