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Regional Boards => Canada => Topic started by: jakeroot on January 08, 2021, 01:16:21 PM

Title: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 08, 2021, 01:16:21 PM
Not the most interesting province in Canada to post about. But BC regularly engages in highway construction and they're not afraid of large projects. So what the hey, let's have a BC thread.

Mod note: maybe we could sticky all these provincial threads? Other than BC: Ontario, Quebec, and Alberta all have identically-named threads.



Some interesting projects ongoing in BC include:

* Lower Lynn Interchange reconstruction in North Vancouver: see here (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/transportation-infrastructure/projects/highway-1-lower-lynn-improvements);

* Rebuild of Hwy 91/SFPR interchange: see here (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation-projects/highway-91-17-deltaport);

* Haney Bypass reconstruction (Hwy 7 bypass around Maple Ridge): see here (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/transportation-infrastructure/projects/haney-bypass);

* Pattullo Bridge Replacement: see here (https://www.pattullobridgereplacement.ca/)
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 08, 2021, 01:21:25 PM
To start, the Lower Lynn Improvements are ongoing in North Vancouver. Many things have already been completed.

Some of the changes include:

* rebuilt interchange at Mountain Hwy
* new bridges over Lynn Creek
* collector/distributer system
* ramp meter entering the southbound Ironworkers

You can see the new Mountain Hwy overpass/interchange (https://goo.gl/maps/7a9JwsfSKLgwUCE58) on street view already.

Here is a map of all the different improvements:

(https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/transportation-infrastructure/projects/hwy1-lower-lynn/hwy-1_lower-lynn-improvement.jpg)

The MOTI's Flickr album for the project (https://flic.kr/s/aHsm8BxeMB) has quite a few photos as well:

This flyover is pretty excellent too:

Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 08, 2021, 01:27:17 PM
Another project was recently completed: Hwy 1 at McKenzie/Admirals (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/transportation-infrastructure/projects/highway-1-mckenzie-interchange) on Vancouver Island.

This interchange was previously a busy traffic signal, and completed a section of the Hwy 1 Freeway another interchange further, bringing the total length to about 11 km.

The freeway's eastern end is Tillicum Road, and is much more urban than where this interchange was built. It's unlikely that a proper freeway interchange would ever be built there. Maybe a RIRO one day.

Images are hard to come by, but this one was posted by the MOT on their website:

(https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/transportation-infrastructure/projects/hwy1-mckenzie-interchange/2020-photo_mckenzie_interchange.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50245787886_5ff697c379_o.jpg)
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 08, 2021, 01:38:43 PM
For those interested in traffic signals:

BC recently changed their rule and now requires 300mm traffic signal heads rather than a variety of 200mm or 300mm as was previously the case.

I believe this intersection between Mountain Hwy & Keith Road (https://goo.gl/maps/NZm8Ur1gtEQVGnpNA), which was rebuilt by the province as part of the aforementioned Lower Lynn Improvements, may be the first provincial intersection to include all 300mm signal heads. An intersection like this would have definitely included some 200mm traffic signals a few years ago, likely the right-side through signals.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: kkt on January 08, 2021, 02:29:39 PM
Are you getting to visit BC at all?  I thought travel was limited to essential traffic only.  Or are you working just from web sites?
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 08, 2021, 02:32:14 PM
Are you getting to visit BC at all?  I thought travel was limited to essential traffic only.  Or are you working just from web sites?

I have connections through UBC that might allow me to get in, but I have not been on the other side of the border since February. Unfortunately. Quite a large back-log for me now.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: TXtoNJ on January 08, 2021, 06:59:22 PM
Was wondering why there hadn't been any BC news lately. I actually just got back from there (dual citizenship comes in handy).

The biggest news in the Lower Mainland outside of Van is that the expansion of Hwy 1 to 216th St in Langley is complete. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/transportation-infrastructure/projects/highway1-216th

Further expansion to 3x3 from Langley to Fraser Hwy in Abbotsford was part of the NDP's platform for the recent election, so we should see that soon (it is promised by 2026). This will alleviate likely the biggest traffic chokepoint on the entire BC highway system.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: vdeane on January 08, 2021, 07:49:51 PM
* Rebuild of Hwy 91/SFPR interchange: see here (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation-projects/highway-91-17-deltaport);
Interesting... I wonder if the SFPR will be a proper freeway some day.  Looks like that interchange still won't be freeway/freeway, though, at least at the BC 91 end.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Stephane Dumas on January 08, 2021, 08:53:10 PM
There also some upgrades planned for BC-7. I wonder if there was once some plans to convert BC-7 into a full freeway between BC-7B and BC-11?
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: TXtoNJ on January 09, 2021, 12:53:39 AM
There also some upgrades planned for BC-7. I wonder if there was once some plans to convert BC-7 into a full freeway between BC-7B and BC-11?

Iím pretty sure the Lougheed was never intended to be a freeway - always a local/relief route for Highway 1. BC seems to follow more the UK model of freeways for clear trunk routes, and expressways for intercity connectors.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: splashflash on January 09, 2021, 05:49:06 AM
There also some upgrades planned for BC-7. I wonder if there was once some plans to convert BC-7 into a full freeway between BC-7B and BC-11?

Iím pretty sure the Lougheed was never intended to be a freeway - always a local/relief route for Highway 1. BC seems to follow more the UK model of freeways for clear trunk routes, and expressways for intercity connectors.

The Lougheed between Mission and Maple Ridge has seen widening in the past twenty years, bit by bit.  For Mission it was a local but direct route to Vancouver, but the Mission Bridge connection to the Trans-Canada was for years faster, up until bad congestion occurred on the Port Mann Bridge from the mid-1990s until the replacement Port Mann was completed.  The Haney bypass quickened travelling for years but itself became congested and had traffic signals added.  The improved Pitt River Bridge replaced the old twin Bridges in the early 2000's.  The Ministry of Highways may have had high level plans in the 1960s for it to become a freeway, but surely won't become a freeway east of Pitt Meadows.

The section east of Mission through Dewdney is rather quaint, having changed little in the past fifty to sixty years.

Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 09, 2021, 01:03:10 PM
The biggest news in the Lower Mainland outside of Van is that the expansion of Hwy 1 to 216th St in Langley is complete. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation/transportation-infrastructure/projects/highway1-216th

Further expansion to 3x3 from Langley to Fraser Hwy in Abbotsford was part of the NDP's platform for the recent election, so we should see that soon (it is promised by 2026). This will alleviate likely the biggest traffic chokepoint on the entire BC highway system.

I had totally forgot about that interchange. Last I checked it was still under construction, so I'm glad to see it opened.

The drive from Abbotsford to Vancouver can be a real slog, so I'm glad to see that they are widening it. Last time I was in that area, I was going from Chilliwack to Vancouver but I went via Lougheed instead, simply to avoid Hwy 1.

* Rebuild of Hwy 91/SFPR interchange: see here (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation-projects/highway-91-17-deltaport);
Interesting... I wonder if the SFPR will be a proper freeway some day.  Looks like that interchange still won't be freeway/freeway, though, at least at the BC 91 end.

It's damn close to being freeway-to-freeway but indeed not quite. The next spot to focus should be the Tillbury Connector; upgrading that to an interchange would create a 25km freeway from Delta to Surrey. There would still be work to do in Surrey (Old Yale, Bridgeview, 116 Ave) but it would allow for maybe some speed limit increases south/west of Old Yale.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on January 09, 2021, 01:19:51 PM
The Haney bypass quickened travelling for years but itself became congested and had traffic signals added.

I was wondering when that was built and was a bit astonished that it was at least the late 70s, maybe 1980. To go that long without some lane improvements seems pretty crazy.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 07, 2021, 09:01:15 PM
Some photos of the Trans-Canada Highway in BC through the Cape Horn interchange.

Two views looking westerly from just west of the Port Mann Bridge:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03641_west_Jul20_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03641_west_Jul20_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03648_west_Jul20_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03648_west_Jul20_24x16.jpg

Two views looking easterly towards the Port Mann Bridge from the King Edward Drive overpass:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03683_west_c_Jul20_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03683_west_c_Jul20_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03688_west_EB_Jul20_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03688_east_WB_Jul20_24x16.jpg

Two views looking easterly towards Vancouver:
(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03673_west_c_Jul20_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03673_west_c_Jul20_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03672_west_WB_Jul20_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/1/BC1_cl_DSC03672_west_WB_Jul20_24x16.jpg
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: AsphaltPlanet on July 07, 2021, 09:33:43 PM
The Big Orange Bridge in Nelson, BC:

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/3A/BC3A_DSC01024_Jul20_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/3A/BC3A_DSC01024_Jul20_24x16.jpg

(http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/3A/BC3A_DSC01050_Jul20_forum.jpg)
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/BC/3A/BC3A_DSC01050_Jul20_24x16.jpg
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Bruce on July 10, 2021, 03:02:12 AM
Anyone know why BC bothered to build partial/full cloverleafs at some seemingly-rural junctions on BC 1 in the Fraser Valley? BC 15, BC 10, and BC 13 don't seem like they would really warrant this kind of treatment.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on July 10, 2021, 01:06:45 PM
Anyone know why BC bothered to build partial/full cloverleafs at some seemingly-rural junctions on BC 1 in the Fraser Valley? BC 15, BC 10, and BC 13 don't seem like they would really warrant this kind of treatment.

The BC-15 interchange definitely warrants something high capacity, as it's the terminus of the South Fraser Perimeter Road (BC-17) with regular traffic flowing into it from the north. If you notice in the interchange layout (Parclo A4), the left turn onto southbound BC-15 is a merge rather than a full signal; this design allows all movements onto Hwy 1 to be free-flow for BC-17. No other "regular" design would have permitted this.

As to BC-10 and BC-13, I think they're just relics from a different era. The province may have expected major growth in the Fraser Valley and Metro Vancouver once the freeway was finished, so cloverleafs were chosen to manage traffic. Growth patterns changed over the ensuing decades and now they're just overbuilt. This is likely why new and modified interchanges, apart from BC-15/BC-17, have been diamonds or SPUIs, since those are sufficient.

Perhaps some may think the cloverleafs were designed to handle a future freeway terminus. I may disagree as none of the cloverleafs, including the extinct one at 200 St, had any sort of traits of interchanges designed to handle a freeway terminus. There's no grading to indicate a future overpass, the loops are all designed to meet the exiting overpasses perfectly, no cleared nearby right-of-way, etc.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: TXtoNJ on July 11, 2021, 11:03:36 AM
Anyone know why BC bothered to build partial/full cloverleafs at some seemingly-rural junctions on BC 1 in the Fraser Valley? BC 15, BC 10, and BC 13 don't seem like they would really warrant this kind of treatment.

The BC-15 interchange definitely warrants something high capacity, as it's the terminus of the South Fraser Perimeter Road (BC-17) with regular traffic flowing into it from the north. If you notice in the interchange layout (Parclo A4), the left turn onto southbound BC-15 is a merge rather than a full signal; this design allows all movements onto Hwy 1 to be free-flow for BC-17. No other "regular" design would have permitted this.

As to BC-10 and BC-13, I think they're just relics from a different era. The province may have expected major growth in the Fraser Valley and Metro Vancouver once the freeway was finished, so cloverleafs were chosen to manage traffic. Growth patterns changed over the ensuing decades and now they're just overbuilt. This is likely why new and modified interchanges, apart from BC-15/BC-17, have been diamonds or SPUIs, since those are sufficient.

Perhaps some may think the cloverleafs were designed to handle a future freeway terminus. I may disagree as none of the cloverleafs, including the extinct one at 200 St, had any sort of traits of interchanges designed to handle a freeway terminus. There's no grading to indicate a future overpass, the loops are all designed to meet the exiting overpasses perfectly, no cleared nearby right-of-way, etc.

Yes, I'm inclined to think that the answer is essentially "because that's how it was done on the 401 in Ontario".
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: splashflash on July 14, 2021, 05:29:22 PM
Anyone know why BC bothered to build partial/full cloverleafs at some seemingly-rural junctions on BC 1 in the Fraser Valley? BC 15, BC 10, and BC 13 don't seem like they would really warrant this kind of treatment.

The BC-15 interchange definitely warrants something high capacity, as it's the terminus of the South Fraser Perimeter Road (BC-17) with regular traffic flowing into it from the north. If you notice in the interchange layout (Parclo A4), the left turn onto southbound BC-15 is a merge rather than a full signal; this design allows all movements onto Hwy 1 to be free-flow for BC-17. No other "regular" design would have permitted this.

As to BC-10 and BC-13, I think they're just relics from a different era. The province may have expected major growth in the Fraser Valley and Metro Vancouver once the freeway was finished, so cloverleafs were chosen to manage traffic. Growth patterns changed over the ensuing decades and now they're just overbuilt. This is likely why new and modified interchanges, apart from BC-15/BC-17, have been diamonds or SPUIs, since those are sufficient.

Perhaps some may think the cloverleafs were designed to handle a future freeway terminus. I may disagree as none of the cloverleafs, including the extinct one at 200 St, had any sort of traits of interchanges designed to handle a freeway terminus. There's no grading to indicate a future overpass, the loops are all designed to meet the exiting overpasses perfectly, no cleared nearby right-of-way, etc.

Yes, I'm inclined to think that the answer is essentially "because that's how it was done on the 401 in Ontario".

The interchanges at Vedder Road in Chilliwack and McCallum Road, Mount Lehman Road, and Clearbrook Road in    Abbotsford were cloverleafs too, but all replaced and widened in the past twenty years.  The overpass guard rails do look similar to the 401 Ontario ones don't they?
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on July 15, 2021, 11:45:53 AM
Anyone know why BC bothered to build partial/full cloverleafs at some seemingly-rural junctions on BC 1 in the Fraser Valley? BC 15, BC 10, and BC 13 don't seem like they would really warrant this kind of treatment.

The BC-15 interchange definitely warrants something high capacity, as it's the terminus of the South Fraser Perimeter Road (BC-17) with regular traffic flowing into it from the north. If you notice in the interchange layout (Parclo A4), the left turn onto southbound BC-15 is a merge rather than a full signal; this design allows all movements onto Hwy 1 to be free-flow for BC-17. No other "regular" design would have permitted this.

As to BC-10 and BC-13, I think they're just relics from a different era. The province may have expected major growth in the Fraser Valley and Metro Vancouver once the freeway was finished, so cloverleafs were chosen to manage traffic. Growth patterns changed over the ensuing decades and now they're just overbuilt. This is likely why new and modified interchanges, apart from BC-15/BC-17, have been diamonds or SPUIs, since those are sufficient.

Perhaps some may think the cloverleafs were designed to handle a future freeway terminus. I may disagree as none of the cloverleafs, including the extinct one at 200 St, had any sort of traits of interchanges designed to handle a freeway terminus. There's no grading to indicate a future overpass, the loops are all designed to meet the exiting overpasses perfectly, no cleared nearby right-of-way, etc.

Yes, I'm inclined to think that the answer is essentially "because that's how it was done on the 401 in Ontario".

The interchanges at Vedder Road in Chilliwack and McCallum Road, Mount Lehman Road, and Clearbrook Road in    Abbotsford were cloverleafs too, but all replaced and widened in the past twenty years.  The overpass guard rails do look similar to the 401 Ontario ones don't they?

I don't think I realized Vedder Road was a cloverleaf. The apparent right-of-way is so small, I would have assumed maybe a wide-ish diamond at most.

Here's a shot of it from 1999, looking northeast:

(https://globalairphotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/canada-bc-chilliwack-1991-04-30-0127.jpg)
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: TXtoNJ on July 15, 2021, 02:12:06 PM
Anyone know why BC bothered to build partial/full cloverleafs at some seemingly-rural junctions on BC 1 in the Fraser Valley? BC 15, BC 10, and BC 13 don't seem like they would really warrant this kind of treatment.

The BC-15 interchange definitely warrants something high capacity, as it's the terminus of the South Fraser Perimeter Road (BC-17) with regular traffic flowing into it from the north. If you notice in the interchange layout (Parclo A4), the left turn onto southbound BC-15 is a merge rather than a full signal; this design allows all movements onto Hwy 1 to be free-flow for BC-17. No other "regular" design would have permitted this.

As to BC-10 and BC-13, I think they're just relics from a different era. The province may have expected major growth in the Fraser Valley and Metro Vancouver once the freeway was finished, so cloverleafs were chosen to manage traffic. Growth patterns changed over the ensuing decades and now they're just overbuilt. This is likely why new and modified interchanges, apart from BC-15/BC-17, have been diamonds or SPUIs, since those are sufficient.

Perhaps some may think the cloverleafs were designed to handle a future freeway terminus. I may disagree as none of the cloverleafs, including the extinct one at 200 St, had any sort of traits of interchanges designed to handle a freeway terminus. There's no grading to indicate a future overpass, the loops are all designed to meet the exiting overpasses perfectly, no cleared nearby right-of-way, etc.

Yes, I'm inclined to think that the answer is essentially "because that's how it was done on the 401 in Ontario".

The interchanges at Vedder Road in Chilliwack and McCallum Road, Mount Lehman Road, and Clearbrook Road in    Abbotsford were cloverleafs too, but all replaced and widened in the past twenty years.  The overpass guard rails do look similar to the 401 Ontario ones don't they?

I've been taking the Mt Lehman exit a bunch lately, and let me tell you - that old configuration looks like an absolute nightmare
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Bruce on August 18, 2021, 05:19:52 PM
BC government chooses the tunnel option for the George Massey Tunnel replacement. 6 GP lanes, 2 bus lanes, to open by 2030.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/george-massey-tunnel-immersed-business-case
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: SectorZ on August 18, 2021, 06:22:12 PM
BC government chooses the tunnel option for the George Massey Tunnel replacement. 6 GP lanes, 2 bus lanes, to open by 2030.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/george-massey-tunnel-immersed-business-case

I've never seen a ped/bicycle access part of a tunnel. That is pretty freakin' cool.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Bruce on August 18, 2021, 07:39:15 PM
BC government chooses the tunnel option for the George Massey Tunnel replacement. 6 GP lanes, 2 bus lanes, to open by 2030.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/george-massey-tunnel-immersed-business-case

I've never seen a ped/bicycle access part of a tunnel. That is pretty freakin' cool.

The Mount Baker Tunnel on I-90 in Seattle also has a separate tunnel bore for the pedestrian/bike trail. It's a fun ride.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/7377/11113134665_31f38cedca_b.jpg)

Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fchemotti/11113134665
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: bcroadguy on August 20, 2021, 09:05:35 AM
BC government chooses the tunnel option for the George Massey Tunnel replacement. 6 GP lanes, 2 bus lanes, to open by 2030.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/george-massey-tunnel-immersed-business-case

If they decided to stick with with the 10 lane bridge plan the previous government had, we could have had a better crossing for less money that probably would have been completed by now (or in a year or two). Plus we would have a vastly improved freeway on either side, complete with a stack interchange at Steveston Hwy, instead of keeping the far too narrow and shitty 1950s-60s "freeway" that exists currently (the only "upgrade" is wider shoulders / bus lanes).

Near / inside the Massey Tunnel, with the counter flow lanes that have been active since the 1980s (meaning the off-peak direction has ONE lane, undivided from oncoming traffic, on a fucking major FREEWAY (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.127314,-123.08245,3a,49y,123.53h,89.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1suS9PkoO-piUSGj6Js_Thng!2e0!5s20201201T000000!7i16384!8i8192) in a major city by Canadian standards in the year TWENTY FUCKING ONE), if you're driving in the peak direction, you still have three lanes. There will be a new bus lane, but who the fuck is taking a bus from DELTA, the super-burbs.

The newish BC NDP government seems to be pretty popular, partially due to the BC Liberals that governed from 2001-2017 (despite the name, they are centre-right) being corrupt af, but every news website / Reddit comment section I have ever seen about the Massey Tunnel Replacement is overwhelmingly critical towards the NDP's decision on this crossing, and their decision on the Patullo Bridge, where they decided to replace a 4 lane bridge with a 4 lane bridge and not build proper connections to Highway 17 which it passes over.

This is yet another example of BC underbuilding highway infrastructure that they will shortly be regretted.

Highway 17 (the SFPR) opened not very long ago (2012 I believe). Not even 10 years later, we're upgrading numerous signalized intersections to interchanges and dealing with the fallout of numerous trucks tipping over due to building the road to an 80 km/h "signalized divided rural arterial standard" with numerous sharp curves (sharp for trucks, totally ok for a passenger car to take at 110 km/h) instead of building the road to a proper freeway standard (this is the BC Liberals' fault) for far more money that it would have cost to do it right the first time.

Highway 91, which is a complete freeway now (FINALLY), had signalized intersections until about 2-3 years ago when the 72nd Street interchange was completed. When the road opened in ~1986, the Alex Fraser Bridge had four lanes (with the capacity for six). It was expanded to six lanes a year later (and expanded to 7 lanes 2ish years ago through narrowing shoulders, lane widths, and the lowering the speed limit). It also had signalized intersections on either side of the bridge, but that was such a disaster that they build interchanges a few years later.

Even Highway 1 through the Vancouver area wasn't even a full freeway until the mid-1990s.

BC's highway system is pretty sad honestly.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 20, 2021, 03:19:17 PM
BC government chooses the tunnel option for the George Massey Tunnel replacement. 6 GP lanes, 2 bus lanes, to open by 2030.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/george-massey-tunnel-immersed-business-case

If they decided to stick with with the 10 lane bridge plan the previous government had, we could have had a better crossing for less money that probably would have been completed by now (or in a year or two). Plus we would have a vastly improved freeway on either side, complete with a stack interchange at Steveston Hwy, instead of keeping the far too narrow and shitty 1950s-60s "freeway" that exists currently (the only "upgrade" is wider shoulders / bus lanes).

Near / inside the Massey Tunnel, with the counter flow lanes that have been active since the 1980s (meaning the off-peak direction has ONE lane, undivided from oncoming traffic, on a fucking major FREEWAY (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.127314,-123.08245,3a,49y,123.53h,89.16t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1suS9PkoO-piUSGj6Js_Thng!2e0!5s20201201T000000!7i16384!8i8192) in a major city by Canadian standards in the year TWENTY FUCKING ONE), if you're driving in the peak direction, you still have three lanes. There will be a new bus lane, but who the fuck is taking a bus from DELTA, the super-burbs.

The newish BC NDP government seems to be pretty popular, partially due to the BC Liberals that governed from 2001-2017 (despite the name, they are centre-right) being corrupt af, but every news website / Reddit comment section I have ever seen about the Massey Tunnel Replacement is overwhelmingly critical towards the NDP's decision on this crossing, and their decision on the Patullo Bridge, where they decided to replace a 4 lane bridge with a 4 lane bridge and not build proper connections to Highway 17 which it passes over.

This is yet another example of BC underbuilding highway infrastructure that they will shortly be regretted.

Highway 17 (the SFPR) opened not very long ago (2012 I believe). Not even 10 years later, we're upgrading numerous signalized intersections to interchanges and dealing with the fallout of numerous trucks tipping over due to building the road to an 80 km/h "signalized divided rural arterial standard" with numerous sharp curves (sharp for trucks, totally ok for a passenger car to take at 110 km/h) instead of building the road to a proper freeway standard (this is the BC Liberals' fault) for far more money that it would have cost to do it right the first time.

Highway 91, which is a complete freeway now (FINALLY), had signalized intersections until about 2-3 years ago when the 72nd Street interchange was completed. When the road opened in ~1986, the Alex Fraser Bridge had four lanes (with the capacity for six). It was expanded to six lanes a year later (and expanded to 7 lanes 2ish years ago through narrowing shoulders, lane widths, and the lowering the speed limit). It also had signalized intersections on either side of the bridge, but that was such a disaster that they build interchanges a few years later.

Even Highway 1 through the Vancouver area wasn't even a full freeway until the mid-1990s.

BC's highway system is pretty sad honestly.

I don't know if I would take as critical of a stance, but I think I understand where you are coming from.

British Columbia, in some ways, is actually quite impressive. Their ability to go from concept to full production for public transportation is mighty impressive. Road projects such as Golden Ears Bridge, new Pitt River, Pattullo, and Port Mann bridges, and indeed the SFPR is a pretty good indication that BC hasn't exactly given up on building new infrastructure, and in some ways can get it done pretty fast.

But then, as you point out, there are more than a few examples of things taking forever. The 72 St interchange was completed almost 40 years after the Kittson and Nordel interchanges, which is just insane. The massive interchange gap in White Rock/South Surrey took way too long to fill as well (trying to get onto southbound 99 was very nearly an exercise in futility until the 16 Ave interchange finally opened). And the SFPR was both poorly built and underbuilt for the traffic that everyone knew it would handle. I knew right away when it opened in 2012 that it would not take long for it to be upgraded.

I am still not totally sure why the George Massey "bridge" was canned; it would have been consistent with other crossings of the Fraser and certainly would have been tall enough for even the largest boats to pass beneath. It would have provided spectacular views as well. It had excellent capacity and involved significant upgrades of nearby interchanges. Plus, the environmental work was already complete. It was literally shovel-ready. Like every major project, it had its detractors, but overall it seemed that most people supported the project. Particularly some Americans who normally use it to reach Vancouver. I have a feeling it was largely political, which is a shame.

Still, credit where credit's due: the new tunnel doubles the capacity of the current crossing, and more closely resembles the existing design of Hwy 99 north and south of the river (requiring less money spent on interchange upgrades and the like). But then that does seem to the be the apparent issue with Hwy 99: a bit underbuilt. More lanes may encourage more people to defer to the new tunnel rather than the Alex Fraser, but then that opens additional capacity on that bridge and would allow for growth along both corridors. Truly a win-win. No doubt traffic will eventually settle back into stop-and-go after a few decades, but eight lanes of stop-and-go is still moving more cars than four lanes of stop-and-go.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: TXtoNJ on August 20, 2021, 07:33:42 PM
The big problems with the bridge are the neighborhoods and farms next to the river crossings. A large structure like a bridge casts large shadows, which can severely impact yields and quality of life.

Since the sun in BC is low in the sky to the south, and the growing season so short, the effect of bridge shadows are exaggerated compared to more equatorial locations.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: kphoger on August 20, 2021, 07:39:22 PM
The big problems with the bridge are the neighborhoods and farms next to the river crossings. A large structure like a bridge casts large shadows, which can severely impact yields and quality of life.

Since the sun in BC is low in the sky to the south, and the growing season so short, the effect of bridge shadows are exaggerated compared to more equatorial locations.

Wouldn't the benefits of having riverfront farmland more than compensate for the detriments of having bridge shadows moving across the field?
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: TXtoNJ on August 20, 2021, 07:54:26 PM
The big problems with the bridge are the neighborhoods and farms next to the river crossings. A large structure like a bridge casts large shadows, which can severely impact yields and quality of life.

Since the sun in BC is low in the sky to the south, and the growing season so short, the effect of bridge shadows are exaggerated compared to more equatorial locations.

Wouldn't the benefits of having riverfront farmland more than compensate for the detriments of having bridge shadows moving across the field?

Not if there isn't a bridge right now, and they can get the province to rebuild the tunnel instead.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on August 20, 2021, 08:16:52 PM
Shadows and light would have been part of the environmental review. Not sure it would have actually been a big problem for at least a couple reasons: (1) long shadows are not a significant issue during the primary growing seasons (spring, summer, early fall); as well, (2) the bridge would have cast most of its shadows on Deas Island and the river, not farmland (I suspect the affected farmland would have been small portions south of the River Rd/60 Ave junction in Delta, and small portions of property north of Rice Mill Rd east of Hwy 99 in Richmond).
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: TXtoNJ on August 20, 2021, 10:36:09 PM
Shadows and light would have been part of the environmental review. Not sure it would have actually been a big problem for at least a couple reasons: (1) long shadows are not a significant issue during the primary growing seasons (spring, summer, early fall); as well, (2) the bridge would have cast most of its shadows on Deas Island and the river, not farmland (I suspect the affected farmland would have been small portions south of the River Rd/60 Ave junction in Delta, and small portions of property north of Rice Mill Rd east of Hwy 99 in Richmond).

Not a big problem for the public, sure. For the property holder, though? From my understanding, the cities of Delta and Richmond were the primary block on the bridge plan. That suggests property owners (specifically, the Country Vines Winery that would have been impacted by an extended elevated structure) didn't agree with the environmental review.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: dmuzika on September 13, 2021, 10:48:04 PM
I recently drove between Calgary and Victoria. The need for the Trans-Canada Highway to be twinned through the Interior has been well documented, so I was wanted to talk distance signage. Overall, itís pretty good but I think some improvements that can be made east of Kamloops, especially when compared with other highways in through the province.

Westbound TCH 1
Generally, BC does a pretty good job of signing westbound communities. Kamloops is the control city west of Golden and there are 2-3 towns listed. The only (minor) improvement is that between Revelstoke and Sicamous, thereís inconsistency between Sicamous/Vernon/Kamloops and Salmon Arm/Vernon/Kamloops. Thereís room for an argument that Vernon doesnít need to be listed, but itís also signed on Hwy 23 south of Revelstoke (the alternate route), so maybe four locations should be listed Ė Sicamous/Salmon Arm/Vernon/Kamloops. Alberta only lists Canmore/Banff west of Calgary, and there might be a case to have a second sign that lists some major BC destinations, such as at the Hwy 22 junction.

Eastbound TCH 1
I think this could use some work. According to BCMoTís Manual of Standard Traffic Signs & Pavement Markings (http://"https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/driving-and-transportation/transportation-infrastructure/engineering-standards-and-guidelines/traffic-engineering-and-safety/traffic-engineering/traffic-signs-and-pavement-markings/manual_signs_pavement_marking.pdf") (2000), Calgary should be a control city along the Trans Canada Highway east of Kamloops (see page 141 of the pdf); however, itís not listed at all except for east of Field which is under Parks Canada jurisdiction. Banff is used sporadically east of Kamloops, despite being used as the control city at the Hwy 5 north jct. (http://"https://goo.gl/maps/4ELLcj1p84JoQPav8"), and consistently east of Revelstoke. Further to that, thereís usually only two locations listed, and the control city is simply the next location. Field, which is used as a control city for westbound traffic within the national parks, is never mentioned Ė at best it should be listed east of Golden. BC should consider having a minimum of three locations listed on its eastbound signage, with Calgary being the control city. East of Monte Creek, there could even be two signs Ė Chase/Salmon Arm/Revelstoke and Banff/Calgary. BC uses out of province control cities on other routes, such as Whitehorse on the Alaska Highway and Jasper on the Yellowhead Highways (both 5 & 16), and even uses two Alberta locations where appropriate, such as Grande Prairie/Edmonton on Hwy 2 east of Pouce Coupe (http://"https://goo.gl/maps/BjAk1qbuYX1wUZ879") and Jasper/Edmonton TCH 16 east of Tete Jaune Cache (http://"https://goo.gl/maps/kAuDnjfXNySUJkYq7").

Banff/Yoho (both directions)
This needs its own category. Parks Canada does not sign the locations beyond the national parks well in either direction, especially when compared to TCH 16 in Jasper National Park. They replaced the signage in Banff a few years ago and went with two locations Ė the next two locations, which is great for tourists but not so great for travelers heading beyond the parks. For example, beyond Banff, itís Lake Louise/Field, Field/Golden past Lake Louise, and only Golden past Field. Compare that the TCH 16 west of Jasper, which uses Kamloops and Prince George. Parks Canada installed a three-location sign for eastbound traffic at Field, and that standard should be adopted in both directions through the park, with Kamloops and Calgary being the respective control cities. While weíre at it, they could also continue the exit numbers in Banff National Park. Once the Kicking Horse Canyon is completed, that would be a good time to upgrade the signage.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: traffic.lights.vancouver on September 27, 2021, 03:14:14 AM
Hey there, I'm new to this forum, I was just curious if we could post traffic signals from BC here, or do we have to create a new section/topic?
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on September 27, 2021, 10:48:34 AM
Hey there, I'm new to this forum, I was just curious if we could post traffic signals from BC here, or do we have to create a new section/topic?

I'm not a mod, but my own 2 cents is that seems like a large enough topic to warrant its own thread. BC has some interesting signal treatments so that would be cool to see them together like that.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on September 27, 2021, 02:01:04 PM
I would have quite a few contributions to a "BC Traffic Signals" thread.

BC has some interesting signal treatments so that would be cool to see them together like that.

I agree with this. There are so many unusual things in BC that it almost certainly warrants its own discussion.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: hurricanehink on October 04, 2021, 01:30:30 PM
How much of the TCH is left to be twinned between Vancouver and Calgary?
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Kniwt on October 04, 2021, 01:50:44 PM
How much of the TCH is left to be twinned between Vancouver and Calgary?

Here's a good update on BC, with lots of pics:
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/transportation-projects/highway1-kamloops-alberta
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Kniwt on November 15, 2021, 09:46:05 AM
The current storm pelting B.C. has caused countless road closures. Potentially the most serious is BC 7 near Agassiz, where some motorists are trapped and others may be buried.

(Update: Police say 80 to 100 vehicles are trapped on BC 7 between two landslides, and air rescue might be necessary.)

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/significant-atmospheric-river-causing-rainfall-warnings-across-southern-b-c

TCH 1 east of Chilliwack between Popkum and Hope:
(https://smartcdn.prod.postmedia.digital/vancouversun/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/265764849-20211114_png_bc_transpo_highway_1_-jpeg-w.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=564&h=423&type=webp)
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Bruce on November 16, 2021, 07:01:18 AM
The Lower Mainland is effectively cut off from the rest of the continent in terms of road and rail links.

BC 1 and BC 5 to the east are closed (with some washed out sections), BC 99 is closed due to a slide, I-5 is closed due to a slide, WA 11 and WA 9 have flooded sections.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Bruce on November 16, 2021, 05:01:44 PM
Portions of BC 5 could take "weeks to months" to reopen: https://globalnews.ca/news/8377257/coquihalla-highway-reopening-timeline-bc-storm-flooding/

BC 1 is still under water near Abbotsford and BC 7 is still covered in slide debris.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Chris on November 17, 2021, 06:30:32 AM
Highway 5 / Coquihalla. Location: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.4760488,-121.2534756,123m/data=!3m1!1e3
(https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/basudelon/87172011/25069/25069_original.jpg)

Highway 5 / Coquihalla. Likely location: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.4477581,-121.2701152,151m/data=!3m1!1e3
(https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/basudelon/87172011/26094/26094_original.jpg)

Highway 5 / Coquihalla. Location: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.3779019,-121.346915,523m/data=!3m1!1e3
(https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/basudelon/87172011/26626/26626_original.jpg)

Derailed train in the Fraser Valley. Approximate location: https://www.google.com/maps/@49.3179641,-121.6273728,1018m/data=!3m1!1e3
(https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/basudelon/87172011/24431/24431_800.jpg)

Source: https://basudelon.livejournal.com/20022.html
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: TXtoNJ on November 19, 2021, 12:18:53 PM
What do we think the impact of repairs on the long-term planning will be? I don't think the schedule for the Massey Tunnel replacement will be delayed much, but I do think there will be significant delays to the addition of the BC 1 HOV lane from 232 to Whatcom. The Whatcom-to-Yale Road expansion might have to go back to the design phase, since I'd imagine there will be much agitation for converting it to a causeway.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: cbeach40 on November 22, 2021, 04:30:08 PM
What do we think the impact of repairs on the long-term planning will be? I don't think the schedule for the Massey Tunnel replacement will be delayed much, but I do think there will be significant delays to the addition of the BC 1 HOV lane from 232 to Whatcom. The Whatcom-to-Yale Road expansion might have to go back to the design phase, since I'd imagine there will be much agitation for converting it to a causeway.

In terms of immediate impacts, when infrastructure takes a big hit the construction program will be reconfigured. Things scheduled in the near term may get deferred in order to free up cash for sudden, more immediate concerns.

As far as long term, it depends on what the scientists and engineers determine how much these sort of conditions need to be accounted for. For example, Ontario's hydrology and structural engineering documentation still makes reference to Hurricane Hazel as that's the sort of worst-case scenario that's taken into account. More robust structural designs like that may be in the cards for BC going forward.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Chris on November 22, 2021, 05:02:30 PM
Based on the images released so far, Highway 8 is probably the most severely damaged highway. It's a less important route so it gets less coverage, but significant stretches have been washed away along the Nicola River between Merritt and Spences Bridge. There is some serious geotechnical engineering required to get this road back online.

Emergency repairs are likely quicker to be in place for Highway 1 & 5, Infrastructure Minister Fleming said that even emergency repairs are 'many weeks' away, so it seems unlikely that the Coquihalla Highway & Fraser Canyon will reopen before New Year's.

Some Highway 8 photos by the B.C. Ministry of Transportation

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51687462069_4fc315ae57_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mKrKH8)
Highway 8 washout (https://flic.kr/p/2mKrKH8) by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51687683990_576f8747a3_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mKsTFm)
Highway 8 washout (https://flic.kr/p/2mKsTFm) by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51687530158_95de75fa08_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mKs6X5)
BC Highway 8 washout (https://flic.kr/p/2mKs6X5) by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51688124707_a8715f4876_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2mKv9FV)
Highway 8 - Damage from the Storm (https://flic.kr/p/2mKv9FV) by B.C. Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/), on Flickr
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: traffic.lights.vancouver on November 26, 2021, 12:31:25 AM
Replying to @jakeroot about the traffic signals: perfect! I have plenty of photos of traffic signals from the lower mainland!
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: traffic.lights.vancouver on November 26, 2021, 12:46:20 AM
So not to overdo it with photos I'll just start off with this
/storage/emulated/0/DCIM/Camera/ PXL_20211105_222548056.jpg

Fortran and McCain 12-8-8 traffic signals on boundary
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: traffic.lights.vancouver on November 26, 2021, 12:47:38 AM
I hope you're able to view the photo because all of my traffic signal photos are on my phone so I cannot really send them from my laptop
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: jakeroot on November 26, 2021, 03:56:38 PM
Replying to @jakeroot about the traffic signals: perfect! I have plenty of photos of traffic signals from the lower mainland!
So not to overdo it with photos I'll just start off with this
/storage/emulated/0/DCIM/Camera/ PXL_20211105_222548056.jpg

Fortran and McCain 12-8-8 traffic signals on boundary
I hope you're able to view the photo because all of my traffic signal photos are on my phone so I cannot really send them from my laptop

You'll need to upload those photos to the internet first.

Check out Imgur or Flickr.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Chris on November 26, 2021, 04:43:33 PM
Some news from the recent flooding in B.C.:

* Highway 1 through Sumas Prairie (Abbotsford to Chilliwack). Reopened to traffic yesterday.
* Highway 1 (Chilliwack to Hope). Open, but partially with only a single lane in each direction.
* Highway 1 through the Fraser Canyon / Thompson Canyon (Hope to Kamloops). 7 large washouts. Might reopen by mid-January 2022 (single lane alternating traffic).
* Highway 3 (Hope to Princeton). Open for essential traffic. Only truck route available. Closed this morning after several large incidents, including a truck fire.
* Highway 5 Coquihalla Highway (Hope to Merrit). Catastrophic damage. 20 washouts, 5 collapsed bridges. Might open by late January 2022 after temporary bridges and repairs are done, likely only for commercial vehicles.
* Highway 8 (Merritt to Spences Bridge). 6 kilometers of this road is entirely wiped out, 20 kilometers severely damaged. 4 bridges collapsed. Nicola River changed its riverbed to the previous highway. Seems like it could be a multi-year repair.
* Highway 99 (Pemberton to Lillooet). Open only for light vehicles.

This means that Highway 3 (Hope to Princeton) is the only way in and out of the Lower Mainland by truck. This road is not designed for heavy, high-speed traffic. It goes over two high passes and has difficult winter driving conditions. More severe weather is forecast over the next few days.

The federal government has worked with the U.S. government to ease permits for trucks to travel into Washington state to bypass the damaged area (trucks with both an origin and destination in Canada). Apparently this type of transport is normally uncommon. This means that trucks could travel along I-90 from Vancouver to say Calgary or points east.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: TXtoNJ on November 26, 2021, 08:15:31 PM
They're closing 99 and the Crowsnest again tonight in anticipation of more heavy rain.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: splashflash on November 27, 2021, 01:29:42 AM
Some news from the recent flooding in B.C.:

This means that Highway 3 (Hope to Princeton) is the only way in and out of the Lower Mainland by truck. This road is not designed for heavy, high-speed traffic. It goes over two high passes and has difficult winter driving conditions. More severe weather is forecast over the next few days.

The Hope-Princeton was rebuilt together on the west end together with construction of the Coquihalla for Expo 86. The approx 35km from Hope to Manning Park entrance is good 4 lane but un-divided highway.  I believe the straightening and addition of passing lanes near Sunday Summit completed a few years ago was the only significant work since 1986.  The highway receives less snow than the Coquihalla or even Stevens Pass on US 2 to the south. 

Before the Coquihalla opened I can remember huge platoons of vehicles, but that largely disappeared after the Coq opened.  For a long time this was the fastest route from the Coast to Okanagan cities from Vernon south.

There are some steep grades near Sunshine Valley and west of Princeton.  The rest of the Crowsnest should see an uptick of traffic volume but also some steep grades at Anarchist Mountain, the Salmo-Creston, and Bonanza Pass.
Title: Re: British Columbia's Highways
Post by: Dougtone on November 27, 2021, 05:06:50 AM
From what I am reading, the timeline for reopening BC 5 (Coquihalla Highway) to traffic will be sometime in January, even though there will be reduced capacity while they continue to make repairs.

https://www.kelownanow.com/watercooler/news/news/BC_Interior/Daunting_task_20_sites_5_bridges_on_the_Coquihalla_heavily_damaged_or_washed_away/#fs_105587