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Freeways without route numbers?

Started by Hwy 61 Revisited, April 07, 2020, 11:11:01 PM

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Beltway

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:11:36 PM
Like I said, even on Google Street View and Satellite View with whatever latency they have for when it was shot, it appears that all the roadways are there.
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9338837,-76.3034322,3a,47.5y,273.81h,87.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sB3aUopftarHmuShg8jINOg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Except for this section which is now completely torn up and under construction again. Video forthcoming. Roads are there, but the westbound lanes are still not fully striped, and both ramps are closed.
Maybe an embankment failure.  Those coastal soils and high water table require special care in order to build a proper embankment.

Next time I am in VA Beach I can check it out.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:11:36 PM
That roadway to Hampton Blvd shows as complete on GMSV.  It is only 1 lane each way and that would limit the capacity.
As far as I was aware, it was to be one-lane, one-way ramp, and as of today, it is still blocked off and closed.
Not sure why they would need to do that.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:22:32 PM
The Norfolk Naval Station Pass and ID facility appears completed, even as of that imagery. Looking at aerial imagery, it appears the connecting roads on the base are also completed.
Any sign of traffic using the ID facility?  The Navy may or may not have opened it yet.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:22:32 PM
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:11:36 PM
The vast majority of Naval Station Norfolk is north of Taussig Blvd. and that will still be accessed by I-564 and Taussig Blvd.
Traffic. The base isn't a breeze to enter during morning commute. The lines often back well up onto I-564 near Terminal Blvd. Having an additional, high-capacity access point will relieve some of those issues. It will likely be well utilized upon completion.
One lane each way will not be high capacity, though, and the access point only touches the south end of the base, and marine terminal traffic would use it as well.
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sprjus4

#76
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
Maybe an embankment failure.  Those coastal soils and high water table require special care in order to build a proper embankment.
Are they going to have to tear the highway up every year?

Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
Any sign of traffic using the ID facility?  The Navy may or may not have opened it yet.
It's closed and blocked off, though the approach roadways on the Navy side and facility itself appear complete, even as of the May 2019 imagery.

Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
One lane each way will not be high capacity, though, and the access point only touches the south end of the base, and marine terminal traffic would use it as well.
The reconstructed Gate 6 has 3 inbound lanes and is 4 lane roadway on the Base itself. The approach heading inbound will be 2 lanes. It's not "one lane each way".

This is quite visible on aerial imagery.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9338458,-76.323347,316m/data=!3m1!1e3

From the archived I-564 project website:
QuoteThe I-564 Intermodal Connector project in Norfolk, VA will connect the existing I-564 through Naval Station Norfolk (NSN) and to the Norfolk International Terminals (NIT), part of the Port of Virginia. The new roadway, to terminate near Hampton Boulevard (Route 337), will provide a safer high-speed highway that should decrease congestion, redirect heavy truck traffic from Norfolk city streets, and provide improved access for the 80,000 vehicles entering and exiting the navy base every day.

* Design and construction of a new 2.82-mile, four-lane limited access highway
* Construction of multiple new bridges and local connectors
* A reconfigured Commercial Vehicle Inspection Station (CVIS) for NSN
* Relocation of NSN Gate 6 (entry control point)
* Relocation of NSN's Patrol Road
* Construction of new access road to the Virginia Port Authority's North Gate Terminal

Project Schedule

Start of Construction: Summer 2015
Final Completion: Fall 2018

Beltway

#77
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:39:18 PM
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
Maybe an embankment failure.  Those coastal soils and high water table require special care in order to build a proper embankment.
Are they going to have to tear the highway up every year?
If that is what happened then they will fix it, and likely not need to do it again.  That doesn't mean that it is ok to happen even once.

This could explain how the original contract was finished (if it was), with a repair contract being used for the above, if that is what happened.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:39:18 PM
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:35:28 PM
Any sign of traffic using the ID facility?  The Navy may or may not have opened it yet.
It's closed and blocked off.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:39:18 PM
The reconstructed Gate 6 has 3 inbound lanes and is 4 lane roadway on the Base itself. The approach heading inbound will be 2 lanes. It's not "one lane each way".  This is quite visible on aerial imagery.  https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9338458,-76.323347,316m/data=!3m1!1e3
Yes, I saw where the new road system in the terminal area also connects to the Navy base.  But that when inbound requires exiting into the ID facility and then following a ramp alongside where the Intermodal Connector passes over VA-337, and then to the end of the IC.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:39:18 PM
provide improved access for the 80,000 vehicles entering and exiting the navy base every day.
Probably a -slight- improvement...
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http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

sprjus4

#78
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:46:10 PM
Yes, I saw where the new road system in the terminal area also connects to the Navy base.  But that when inbound requires exiting into the ID facility and then following a ramp alongside where the Intermodal Connector passes over VA-337, and then to the end of the IC.
That "single lane roadway" is the Commercial Vehicle Inspection Station. General base traffic will utilize the 3-lane inbound lanes passing through the gate where ID is checked.

Commercial Vehicle Inspection Station ramp - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9341083,-76.3147827,3a,34.4y,286.04h,89.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEDuxPj-77K4SNrb3AbUVjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
General Base Traffic ramp - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9334046,-76.3213039,3a,40.9y,301.28h,85.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sITjW25CSJIIOODHHqFtT0Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Beltway

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:48:27 PM
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:46:10 PM
Yes, I saw where the new road system in the terminal area also connects to the Navy base.  But that when inbound requires exiting into the ID facility and then following a ramp alongside where the Intermodal Connector passes over VA-337, and then to the end of the IC.
That "single lane roadway" is the Commercial Vehicle Inspection Station. General base traffic will utilize the 3-lane inbound lanes passing through the gate where ID is checked.
Commercial Vehicle Inspection Station ramp - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9341083,-76.3147827,3a,34.4y,286.04h,89.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEDuxPj-77K4SNrb3AbUVjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
General Base Traffic ramp - https://www.google.com/maps/@36.9334046,-76.3213039,3a,40.9y,301.28h,85.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sITjW25CSJIIOODHHqFtT0Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The ramp over VA-337 looks wide enough for 2 lanes and a full right shoulder.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

sprjus4

#80
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:52:54 PM
The ramp over VA-337 looks wide enough for 2 lanes and a full right shoulder.
The ramp is 2 lanes, yes, then it opens up to 3 inbound lanes through the security checkpoint.

Additionally, the Hampton Blvd ramp connects directly to Gate 5 after crossing over Hampton Blvd, and is signed for such on the Intermodal Connector exit.

Beltway

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:54:15 PM
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:52:54 PM
The ramp over VA-337 looks wide enough for 2 lanes and a full right shoulder.
The ramp is 2 lanes, yes, then it opens up to 3 inbound lanes through the security checkpoint.

The Navy needs to complete and open the Norfolk Naval Station Pass and ID facility before traffic can use that ramp over VA-337.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

sprjus4

Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:56:18 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:54:15 PM
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:52:54 PM
The ramp over VA-337 looks wide enough for 2 lanes and a full right shoulder.
The ramp is 2 lanes, yes, then it opens up to 3 inbound lanes through the security checkpoint.

The Navy needs to complete and open the Norfolk Naval Station Pass and ID facility before traffic can use that ramp over VA-337.
Whoever's fault it is, the fact is the project was supposed to be complete in October 2018, and 14 months later it is still incomplete.

Beltway

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 07:59:06 PM
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 07:56:18 PM
The Navy needs to complete and open the Norfolk Naval Station Pass and ID facility before traffic can use that ramp over VA-337.
Whoever's fault it is, the fact is the project was supposed to be complete in October 2018, and 14 months later it is still incomplete.
But as I said the original ~$140 million project may have been completed, and in 2018.  I drove it back then.

I see -- sound barrier construction which may be a subsequent project.  Possible embankment failure, and subsequent repair project.  Navy project for ID station which is not VDOT's project.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

sprjus4

#84
Quote from: Beltway on April 09, 2020, 08:05:59 PM
But as I said the original ~$140 million project may have been completed, and in 2018.  I drove it back then.
The Hampton Blvd ramp is not yet completed. Lane striping in many areas, notably westbound, is missing. The approach to the connector on I-564 is still not finished. The package was a completed Intermodal Connector with access to Gate 6, NIT, Hampton Blvd ramp by October 2018. To the public, it's not completed.

Dash-cam footage from today's drive. You can see various aspects on VDOT's side not completed, along with the major construction work near the bridge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sachP_NPfmw

bing101

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Cooper_Boulevard
Sam Cooper Blvd. In Memphis, this road was originally going to be a part of I-40 but it ended up being a city owned freeway in Memphis.

coldshoulder

Quote from: 1 on April 09, 2020, 11:56:16 AM
Quote from: coldshoulder on April 09, 2020, 11:45:09 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on April 09, 2020, 05:13:00 AM
Quote from: coldshoulder on April 08, 2020, 11:50:17 AMIf you're referring to the double trumpet that serves as the entrance/exit connector (thru the toll booths) between the Turnpike and I-76 west and I-80 east, then you'd have to consider thousands of those same type structures across the country/world.   :confused:  I don't think the OP had this in mind.

If you're referring to the southerly extension of that trumpet to Mahoning Avenue (CR-18) utilizing the original interchange with the Turnpike, that's not a freeway by any stretch of the imagination; it's nothing more than a glorified connecting exit/entrance ramp, with a posted speed limit of 35 mph--certainly not a freeway.

For somebody traveling in either direction on Mahoning Avenue/CR-18, the connection only allows access to the Turnpike (I-80 west, and I-76 east), and doesn't permit one to access I-80 east, or I-76 west.  Likewise, somebody traveling on I-80 west or I-76 east *prior to the Turnpike* cannot access this connector to get to Mahoning Ave.

So to summarize: it's a short section of road, with a reduced speed limit, one lane in each direction separated only by a foot-high or less concrete median, and provides only a connection to and from the Turnpike, and not the other major east-west freeway at that interchange = NOT a freeway.  :paranoid:

View:

https://goo.gl/maps/W4iCp2QvzzoYyPPu7

The section I was referring to wasn't either one (I consider the toll booths to have a wrong-way concurrency of I-76 and I-80, and thus to be numbered), but to the tiny stretch between the off-ramp to and the on-ramp from the Ohio Turnpike on the freeway that runs due East-West, which is physically unnumbered and even unnamed. Mr. Google puts the number of the oncoming road in both directions, even though one isn't yet in that.

I've been accused oftentimes of being dense, so perhaps this isn't too surprising.  But I'm still confused as to what you're describing. It sounds exactly like I what presented in my first sentence and paragraph in my initial reply quoted above.

It seems to me it's just a standard trumpet interchange that connects two major freeways; in this case maybe a little longer than most but certainly not long enough to be considered an unnumbered freeway.

I believe it does have two lanes prior to the toll booths, coming off the Turnpike eastbound (being a major movement of I-80 East from the Turnpike to I-80 East, a non-tolled different carriageway).  This stretch is posted at 40 mph, again making the case that it's not a freeway.

Perhaps some other posters can help... :hmmm:



The stretch he is referring to is on the mainline, not on the ramp.

Aha!  Thanks, 1

Now it all makes sense.  This "no man's land" extremely short stretch of mainline becomes "unnumbered" because of a technicality "at the bump".

And please forgive me CNGL-Leudimin.  Told ya I was dense.
You're just like crosstown traffic
All you do is slow me down
And I got better things on the other side of town

Beltway

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 08:12:08 PM
The Hampton Blvd ramp is not yet completed. Lane striping in many areas, notably westbound, is missing. The approach to the connector on I-564 is still not finished. The package was a completed Intermodal Connector with access to Gate 6, NIT, Hampton Blvd ramp by October 2018. To the public, it's not completed.
-- Looks like a resurfacing project on WB I-564 and the transition is complete
-- Looks like embankment replacement on WB right half about 1 mile west of I-564
-- Looks like roadways are complete even if unpainted in some places, except for
   previous point
-- ID station unopened so that ramp is unopened, not the responsibility of highway agency
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

sprjus4

That's pretty bad if they have to replace an embankment only two years after it's built. That's on VDOT, not the Navy.

There's a decent amount of striping work that needs to be completed both on I-564 and the connector.

To the public, the project is 14 months behind schedule.

Beltway

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
That's pretty bad if they have to replace an embankment only two years after it's built. That's on VDOT, not the Navy.
I already said that was VDOT responsibility, if that is what happened.

The issue with the ramp thru the ID station is Navy responsibility, if in fact the station is incomplete.

Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2020, 10:01:23 PM
There's a decent amount of striping work that needs to be completed both on I-564 and the connector.
To the public, the project is 14 months behind schedule.
It looks like there are two responsible parties.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

interstate73

JFK Parkway between Short Hills and Livingston, NJ isn't really freeway standard (it has a 50 mph speed limit, some tight curves, narrow shoulders, and short ramps) but it is limited access and as far as I know doesn't have a number. It's a great road for spotting luxury cars since it's located in two of the richest municipalities in the country and has the extremely posh Mall at Short Hills at the southern end where it intersects 24. Shame that there are so many lights in the mall area though, it really slows down what could be a very quick escape from Livingston out to Morris County.
🎶 Man, there’s an opera on the Turnpike 🎶

Morris County if the Route 178 Freeway had been built:

Hwy 61 Revisited

And you may ask yourself, where does that highway go to?
--David Byrne

Roadgeekteen

God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

Hwy 61 Revisited

And you may ask yourself, where does that highway go to?
--David Byrne

Ned Weasel

Kansas: Shawnee Mission Parkway between I-435 and Lackman Road.  The freeway portion is just slightly over a mile, with three consecutive interchanges.  It used to be part of K-12.  If someone already mentioned it, then I scrolled through the thread too quickly.
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Disclaimer: Views I express are my own and don't reflect any employer or associated entity.

frankenroad

a small section of the Ronald Reagan Highway in Hamilton County, OH.  Between I-275 and US-27, it has no number.  OH-126 joins it at US-27 and the rest of the RR is OH-126.
2di's clinched: 44, 66, 68, 71, 72, 74, 78, 83, 84(east), 86(east), 88(east), 96

Highways I've lived on M-43, M-185, US-127

epzik8

The National Park Service-maintained segment of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway (MD-175 to the DC line).
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

My clinched highways: http://tm.teresco.org/user/?u=epzik8
My clinched counties: http://mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/epzik8.gif

bing101

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_259


There is a CA-259 its a freeway to connect some of the I-215 traffic to CA-210 in the Inland Empire but often times CA-259 is an unsigned route.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: bing101 on April 19, 2020, 03:25:50 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_259


There is a CA-259 its a freeway to connect some of the I-215 traffic to CA-210 in the Inland Empire but often times CA-259 is an unsigned route.

But it does have Post Miles like CA 244 does.  CA 259 is kind of signed as "To CA 210."

OCGuy81

Has anyone mentioned Kentucky's parkways yet? Other than the section running I-69, aren't these unnumbered?

Also isn't the Chicago Skyway *technically* not part of I 90?



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