Virginia

[roadman65]

I noticed something odd about signage for both Colonial Williamsburg and Busch Gardens on I-64.  VDOT uses a brown border on Exit 53As guide for Busch Gardens while the historic Williamsburg uses a normal white on green.  In many states it would be reversed.  A historic area of a city would get a brown sign while a theme park on green.

[Mapmikey]

I noticed something odd about signage for both Colonial Williamsburg and Busch Gardens on I-64.  VDOT uses a brown border on Exit 53As guide for Busch Gardens while the historic Williamsburg uses a normal white on green.  In many states it would be reversed.  A historic area of a city would get a brown sign while a theme park on green.

I think it is because mixed types of destinations are on a single BGS.  The example you cite has been this way over 30 years now.

Here is an attempt to separate these out on a single sign in Northern Virginia.  https://goo.gl/maps/f6dc44apBJwUW7sEA

A better looking job is on I-64 WB approaching Busch Gardens - https://goo.gl/maps/bYiTfB5v6PRsX7v19

[Dirt Roads]

I noticed something odd about signage for both Colonial Williamsburg and Busch Gardens on I-64.  VDOT uses a brown border on Exit 53As guide for Busch Gardens while the historic Williamsburg uses a normal white on green.  In many states it would be reversed.  A historic area of a city would get a brown sign while a theme park on green.

I think it is because mixed types of destinations are on a single BGS.  The example you cite has been this way over 30 years now.

The point here is that the term "Historic Williamsburg" refers to a living history museum village, which should be a "Brown Sign" destination instead of a control destination on a BGS exit sign (just like Mount Vernon, only way bigger).  VDOT also includes attractions such as Busch Gardens and Kings Dominion on "Brown Signs".  Most other states won't do that (unless the theme park is of historic nature, of which I know no examples).

[mrsman]

Meanwhile, on I-395 last night....

https://twitter.com/STATter911/status/1453707358815887367

Absolutely terrible.  There are enough reports of this happening at this location that it is a known problem, yet nothing is being done.

I have some suggestions:

1) Enforcement.  While not generally liking speed/red light cameras, I think the egregiousness of the safety issues here warrant an exception.  I don't believe VA generally allows camera enforement, but legislation shoud be drafted to allow it here.

2) Change toll policies.  For a very long time, the very northern section of the 395 express lanes were open for free for all traffic.  Yes, there were HOV restrictions between the Beltway and Pentagon during rush hour, and that section was reversible flowing only in the direction of dominant traffic flow.  But the very northern section is 2-way and was open to everyone, so much so that a lot of traffic migrated from the general lanes to the express lanes after passing the Pentagon.  The effect of this was evening out the traffic flow so that all lanes of northbound 395 had the same level of backup.

For whatever reason, when the section between the Beltway and Pentagon migrated from rush hour HOV to full-time HOT, VDOT and DDOT allowed for the toll restriction to continue onto the part of the roadway to also include the parts north of the Pentagon, including the 14th street bridge.  No new capacity on this stretch was created by the toll authority, they simply repurposed lanes that were previously open to general traffic 24/7 to toll customers only.  Naturally, this created the horrendous backups on the general lanes that drivers are backing up to try to avoid.  So, if VDOT and DDOT were to remove the toll restriction from the express lanes north of the Pentagon, the resulting backups would be spread evenly over all lanes and the incentive to do this dangerous backup manuever would be removed.

It should be pointed out that almost nobody did this before the toll restrictions changed.  The toll restrictions directly result in causing the backups that we see here, especially outside of morning rush hour.

3) Construction changes to some of the nearby ramps.  The pylons added do not work, so maybe VDOT needs to be a little more drastic:

- Close down this left entrance ramp to the express lanes
- Close down the on-ramps from Pentagon and VA-110 SB onto I-395 N in this area.  Many of the cars that do this backup are entering from one of those two ramps, especially VA-110 SB.
- Create an onramp downstream from this from the general lanes to the express lanes

All of this is significantly expensive, so I would strongly prefer if 1 or 2 were implemented instead of 3.  Plus, making changes to the ramps could produce other problems in this very tricky area where so many highways in NOVA come together

[1995hoo]

I believe one of the main reasons given for tolling the approach to the bridge* was that not doing so would discourage paying customers from using the express lanes if they slammed to a stop outside the Pentagon every day.

*The bridge itself isn't tolled inbound or outbound, though of course inbound you can't get to it without passing under the last gantry.

[mrsman]

I believe one of the main reasons given for tolling the approach to the bridge* was that not doing so would discourage paying customers from using the express lanes if they slammed to a stop outside the Pentagon every day.

*The bridge itself isn't tolled inbound or outbound, though of course inbound you can't get to it without passing under the last gantry.

In my book, that's equivalent to tolling the bridge, at least in the inbound direction.

[1995hoo]

My mom mentioned this when we had dinner with her and my brother on Saturday, but she didn't know any details: School zone speed cameras making an appearance in Fairfax City.

I have trouble picturing where they would put one near Frost (which is where I went to junior high) because the school is up at a dead-end part of Pickett Road where there's no thru traffic because the school is the only thing up there. Maybe they mean it will be one camera along Main Street within the city limits in the general area of Frost and Woodson. (Route 236, Main Street, is within city limits there, but both Frost and Woodson are outside city limits in Fairfax County.)

[zachary_amaryllis]

https://www.nbc12.com/2021/07/08/peta-seeks-safety-designation-stretch-virginia-road-prone-hog-truck-crashes/?fbclid=IwAR2l8OOCtscFpmGKNkJXarjX16IFppNQZHNWnPbVGmNicC_iIIlykpyb5-M

I know this stretch of VA 10 has its issues but IDK.. I'm on the fence with this one.

i guess i'm a little confused... peta is concerned that these hogs are being killed ... on their way to being killed? i mean, i hate to see an animal suffer, but in a short time (if they're on va-10, i'm assuming they're smithfield-bound) is it really going to matter?

[roadman65]

I noticed something odd about signage for both Colonial Williamsburg and Busch Gardens on I-64.  VDOT uses a brown border on Exit 53As guide for Busch Gardens while the historic Williamsburg uses a normal white on green.  In many states it would be reversed.  A historic area of a city would get a brown sign while a theme park on green.

I think it is because mixed types of destinations are on a single BGS.  The example you cite has been this way over 30 years now.

Here is an attempt to separate these out on a single sign in Northern Virginia.  https://goo.gl/maps/f6dc44apBJwUW7sEA

A better looking job is on I-64 WB approaching Busch Gardens - https://goo.gl/maps/bYiTfB5v6PRsX7v19

Florida would use split color panels.  Though VDOT's way is interesting and nice too.  However, FDOT (where I am from) would definitely sign theme parks as regular control cities on green signs.  Brown is for historical places only as well as parks.

Yes I know how VDOT signs theme parks as I have seen Kings Dominion for ages on my trips to and from FL to NJ and been to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg many times in the eighties as a kid on family trips.  However, for a while the exit for VA 199 W Bound did sign Busch Gardens with Williamsburg and Jamestown as normal.

[hbelkins]

Kentucky has used split-color signs before. I'm pretty sure I've seen a sign with three colors (brown, green, and blue) on it.

In Kentucky, at least, some of those brown tourist attraction signs are paid for by the entities shown on the signs.

https://transportation.ky.gov/TrafficOperations/Pages/Sign-Programs-and-Standards.aspx

[1995hoo]

Virginia sometimes uses other sorts of split-color signs. There's this one on the Beltway, for example, which I regard as erroneous because the word "and" should not be capitalized: https://goo.gl/maps/QxXgsPUtfA1e4oNGA

Here's one near Charlottesville on which the blue used to refer to the Monticello visitors' center: https://goo.gl/maps/yuHrj1CQ15SaXQy29

[Mapmikey]

Virginia sometimes uses other sorts of split-color signs. There's this one on the Beltway, for example, which I regard as erroneous because the word "and" should not be capitalized: https://goo.gl/maps/QxXgsPUtfA1e4oNGA

Could be named after someone...you've never heard of the famous Virginian, Mr. Ampers And?

[D-Dey65]

Am I the only person here who thinks these signs would be better suited on an overhead sign gantry? Or at least mounted on the overpass?

[plain]

VDOT have been actively removing BGSs from overpasses for a few years now. I guess they don't want the added weight on them. Some of them were placed on separate gantries while others were just ground mounted.

[1995hoo]

It leads to some dumb results sometimes, too. These signs near Springfield Mall used to be mounted to the overpass and were moved to a gantry that pushed them closer to the mast arm for the traffic lights. Same thing coming the other way leaving the Metrorail station. (That interchange and road pattern is slated for big-time changes if/when they extend Frontier Drive to Loisdale Road, so maybe these signs will be replaced again.)

In D-Dey65's post, you can see the markings on the overpass where the signs used to be mounted. A click back to the older Street View images shows how both signs used to be up there.

[Mapmikey]

They started removing BGSs from overpasses shortly after the 2011 Mineral earthquake. Don't know if that timing is coincidental or not.

[cpzilliacus]

They started removing BGSs from overpasses shortly after the 2011 Mineral earthquake. Don't know if that timing is coincidental or not.

Maryland started taking them down at about the same time.  The Mineral quake was felt in much of Maryland.

[kernals12]

At risk of getting political: What impact do we think the new governor will have on Virginia's transportation priorities?

[1995hoo]

At risk of getting political: What impact do we think the new governor will have on Virginia's transportation priorities?

No idea. While I admit I generally muted the campaign ads on TV (mainly because both sides' ads were mostly negative attack ads instead of anything productive), I don't think transportation was a big issue in this year's campaign. Didn't hear much from either side about it.

[Mapmikey]

Only thing transportation related I've seen about the incoming governor is he wants to repeal a recent gas tax increase.

[Alps]

They started removing BGSs from overpasses shortly after the 2011 Mineral earthquake. Don't know if that timing is coincidental or not.

Maryland started taking them down at about the same time.  The Mineral quake was felt in much of Maryland.

NJ Tpk. Authority has been gradually removing them since... either then or a couple of years before then.

[froggie]

In past correspondence I've had with MnDOT on the subject, they mentioned that research suggests having signs directly mounted to the overpass tends to weaken the overpass.

[hbelkins]

Only thing transportation related I've seen about the incoming governor is he wants to repeal a recent gas tax increase.

I hadn't heard that, but I did hear he wants to do a gas tax holiday.

[froggie]

A WaPo article from today about Youngkin's transportation policy, or lack thereof.  As noted upthread, he hasn't said much nor was it a major issue in the Governor's race.  What little we know can be boiled down into four things:

• Transportation decisions should be "data driven".
• Suspending a recent $0.05/gal gas tax increase.
• "Fixing" the DMV.
• Invest more in roads and highways.

Not sure how he intends to invest more when he wants to cut the gas tax...

[kernals12]

A WaPo article from today about Youngkin's transportation policy, or lack thereof.  As noted upthread, he hasn't said much nor was it a major issue in the Governor's race.  What little we know can be boiled down into four things:

• Transportation decisions should be "data driven".
• Suspending a recent $0.05/gal gas tax increase.
• "Fixing" the DMV.
• Invest more in roads and highways.

Not sure how he intends to invest more when he wants to cut the gas tax...

LOL