Virginia

[Alps]

It wasn't going to be an Interstate.  Just a connection.  You're reading too much into what the map shows.

The map was showing Interstates.

[plain]

Found another pic of the RPT online, this time in Petersburg. It's a postcard showing Exit 3 (today's Exit 52 on I-95) Washington St, looking south. Note the median.



moto g(7) optimo (XT1952DL)

[rover]

Everytime I am on I-295 from I-64 to I-95 I always shake my head at how great the I-295 design is and why I-95 N to I-495 can't be this way.

Also, the I-64EB to I-264EB interchange needs a redo to be high speed.

[1995hoo]

Northbound I-95's new configuration across the Rappahannock is set to open on November 16. Nice timing, as that's a week before Thanksgiving and its higher traffic volumes.

[ixnay]

Found another pic of the RPT online, this time in Petersburg. It's a postcard showing Exit 3 (today's Exit 52 on I-95) Washington St, looking south. Note the median.



moto g(7) optimo (XT1952DL)

Median noted.  Interesting (an understatement on my part, I hope).

I wonder what the smaller sign (underneath "Washington Street") at the exit gore says?

[plain]

Found another pic of the RPT online, this time in Petersburg. It's a postcard showing Exit 3 (today's Exit 52 on I-95) Washington St, looking south. Note the median.



moto g(7) optimo (XT1952DL)

Median noted.  Interesting (an understatement on my part, I hope).

I wonder what the smaller sign (underneath "Washington Street") at the exit gore says?

I can barely read it, but I believe it says DOWNTOWN PETERSBURG.

[plain]

Northbound I-95's new configuration across the Rappahannock is set to open on November 16. Nice timing, as that's a week before Thanksgiving and its higher traffic volumes.

That is great news! That should make the area much better for both holiday travel and Black Friday. We'll see how it performs. SB has already seen a big improvement.

[Mapmikey]

Downtown Petersburg is correct.

[Alps]

This got me to look at Historic Aerials which shows the original Turnpike went west from I-95 along I-85 and ended in a wye intersection/interchange with US 1. Except their 1959 topo shows an I-95 shield right at 1, which I assume is just being incorrect. Sure, that could have been signed I-95 from US 1, but I imagine that was already planned as I-85 then? Or was there a different routing for I-95 south of Petersburg planned?

[Mapmikey]

This got me to look at Historic Aerials which shows the original Turnpike went west from I-95 along I-85 and ended in a wye intersection/interchange with US 1. Except their 1959 topo shows an I-95 shield right at 1, which I assume is just being incorrect. Sure, that could have been signed I-95 from US 1, but I imagine that was already planned as I-85 then? Or was there a different routing for I-95 south of Petersburg planned?

From my I-85 page

I-95 is erroneously labeled on the 1959 topo to include the part that I-85 occupies. However, there is an Apr 1960 CTB item that also refers to the US 1 Dinwiddie County interchange with the Richmond-Petersburg Tpk as being with "Route 95" - was 95 briefly signed over to US 1?

I have not seen any evidence 95 was going to be routed any differently than it is south of Petersburg.  Looking at historic views and topos it is clear there was no reason to swing 95 out that way before resuming its long-defined US 301 corridor routing.

I assume the Tpk was built this way so that US 1 and US 460 traffic had a way to bypass Petersburg and topos/views show where US 301 ran into it was sufficient to not build the Tpk or a stub of the Tpk due south of there for US 301's benefit.

I-95 was labeled on the 1959 official only in the Richmond inset.  There is no 1960 Official.  The 1961 official shows I-85 on the stub southwest to US 1-460.

[FLAVORTOWN]

Got a chuckle when I saw this sign 

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9161538,-77.2199269,3a,68.7y,231.29h,78.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s436ExgkO_9fU7ZJ5T8uzeQ!2e0!5s20230801T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[MASTERNC]

Got a chuckle when I saw this sign 

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9161538,-77.2199269,3a,68.7y,231.29h,78.3t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s436ExgkO_9fU7ZJ5T8uzeQ!2e0!5s20230801T000000!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Feels more appropriate for the Christiana Fashion Center in Delaware (which is by SR 7).

[1995hoo]

Somebody posted this old picture of Charlottesville on a UVA forum. There's a thread trying to figure out what year it was; about all that's been established for sure is that one of the cars seen is a '55 Chevy, so it can't be prior to late 1954. Anyone have any ideas?

The street shown is now the Downtown Mall. Can't really get a comparable image on Google Street View today because with the pedestrian mall, combined with trees having been planted down the middle, it's more or less impossible for someone to get the same vantage point.

[Hunty2022]

Somebody posted this old picture of Charlottesville on a UVA forum. There's a thread trying to figure out what year it was; about all that's been established for sure is that one of the cars seen is a '55 Chevy, so it can't be prior to late 1954. Anyone have any ideas?

The street shown is now the Downtown Mall. Can't really get a comparable image on Google Street View today because with the pedestrian mall, combined with trees having been planted down the middle, it's more or less impossible for someone to get the same vantage point.

I love seeing old pics of Cville + surrounding areas, I'm currently trying to find pictures of US 33 in Greene County before the widening in 1993/94.

And for your picture, according to Historic Aerials, the Downtown Mall became a pedestrian mall between 1968 and 1984. That leaves the timeframe as 1955-1984.

[tmoore952]

On a return from a business trip yesterday, and trying to avoid backups at Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel, and Washington in general at evening rush, I crossed both the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel and Chesapeake Bay Bridge, and also made a 5 minute side trip to enter Delaware when US 50 passes close to it.

It all went rather well, despite being 20 or so miles longer than my normal route, except when I got to Annapolis area, it was backed up there.

First time I had ever crossed both spans in one day. A long time ago, as a youngster, I drove from Philadelphia down to NC and back in one day to use the Cape May Lewes Ferry and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel on the same day.

[1995hoo]

The new I-95 local lanes across the Rappahannock opened yesterday. VDOT tweeted this diagram (note, it shows only the northbound side of the highway):

[ixnay]

With the holiday season close at hand, I must say that DT Charlottesville scene look straight out of "Silver Bells".

[Hunty2022]

Downtown Gordonsville looks absolutely stunning during the holidays.

[Mapmikey]

Somebody posted this old picture of Charlottesville on a UVA forum. There's a thread trying to figure out what year it was; about all that's been established for sure is that one of the cars seen is a '55 Chevy, so it can't be prior to late 1954. Anyone have any ideas?

The street shown is now the Downtown Mall. Can't really get a comparable image on Google Street View today because with the pedestrian mall, combined with trees having been planted down the middle, it's more or less impossible for someone to get the same vantage point.

This is prior to the late 1960s.  Per https://www.cvilleimages.com/portfolio/gone-2/ (scroll down), the A & N building was reduced to a single story building by a fire in the late 60s.

The 4th picture here - https://www.cvilleimages.com/portfolio/roseberrys-charlottesville/  shows a more modern Coca-Cola billboard and is labeled circa 1960.  Towards the bottom of that same page is an Oct 1963 night photo that does not rule anything in/out.  The billboard slogan in the photo Hoo posted appears to match the 1952-56 slogan in the list here - https://www.pastimes.org/coke. 

My conclusion is the photo is not long after 1955.

[dlsterner]

Somebody posted this old picture of Charlottesville on a UVA forum. There's a thread trying to figure out what year it was; about all that's been established for sure is that one of the cars seen is a '55 Chevy, so it can't be prior to late 1954. Anyone have any ideas?

The street shown is now the Downtown Mall. Can't really get a comparable image on Google Street View today because with the pedestrian mall, combined with trees having been planted down the middle, it's more or less impossible for someone to get the same vantage point.

This is prior to the late 1960s.  Per https://www.cvilleimages.com/portfolio/gone-2/ (scroll down), the A & N building was reduced to a single story building by a fire in the late 60s.

The 4th picture here - https://www.cvilleimages.com/portfolio/roseberrys-charlottesville/  shows a more modern Coca-Cola billboard and is labeled circa 1960.  Towards the bottom of that same page is an Oct 1963 night photo that does not rule anything in/out.  The billboard slogan in the photo Hoo posted appears to match the 1952-56 slogan in the list here - https://www.pastimes.org/coke. 

My conclusion is the photo is not long after 1955.

Also, the majority of automobiles in the image appear to be of 1950s vintage.  I would expect to see at least a few 1960s cars after a year or so into the decade.  I suspect Mapmikey is close.

[tmoore952]

As I mentioned elsewhere (above), I drove over the CBBT northbound a couple days ago.

The mileposts on the CBBT itself counted from its southern end, and they obviously superceded the "state length" mileposts. When I got to the Eastern Shore, the first milepost I saw was (about) MP 71. I thought to myself, with the CBBT being about 20 miles long, that means US 13 goes for 50 miles in VA between the NC line and the CBBT.

Initially, that seemed high to me. But looking at a map, I can see that is correct. I did not realize that US 13 takes its time getting to NC, as it angles to the southwest. I thought it took a more direct route south similar to VA 168 or US 17. Also, the bypass around Suffolk adds a few miles vice the older route (pre-bypass).

[froggie]

The mileposts on the CBBT itself counted from its southern end, and they obviously superceded the "state length" mileposts. When I got to the Eastern Shore, the first milepost I saw was (about) MP 71. I thought to myself, with the CBBT being about 20 miles long, that means US 13 goes for 50 miles in VA between the NC line and the CBBT.

CBBT is its own quasi-governmental jurisdiction...definitely not under VDOT maintenance. 

There used to be a MP 70 sign northbound just before SR 600, about 1/4mi past the CBBT/Welcome Center parking access.  Looks like it's no longer there.  The southbound MP 70 sign still exists per recent GMSV.

[74/171FAN]

I originally moved the CBBT conversation to the CBBT Thread, but I decided to move it back.  -Mark

[VTGoose]

This showed up yesterday in the Cardinal News feed as part of an article about Kennedy's influence on Virginia (https://cardinalnews.org/2023/11/21/60-years-on-john-kennedys-legacy-in-virginia-can-be-measured-with-i-64-and-clean-drinking-water/). The article also mentions the political implications of Kennedy's run for president and his administration, including mentioning that he created the Appalachian Regional Commission, which is still doling out grants.

------------------

Interstate 64 was routed through Charlottesville, not Lynchburg
The interstate highway system is one of Eisenhower's great legacies, but many of the key routing decisions came under Kennedy.

One of the big debates, which began in the 1950s, was whether Interstate 64 would take the "northern route" through Charlottesville and Waynesboro (as it presently does) or the "southern route" through Farmville, Lynchburg, Bedford and southern Botetourt County on its way to Clifton Forge.

The State Highway Commission, as it was called then, hired a consultant who recommended the northern route because it was 50 miles shorter and thus less expensive. Clearly that consultant did not understand state politics. Gov. Almond (who was from Roanoke) backed the southern route, and that's what the state highway commission preferred, by a "surprise" 5-3 vote in 1959. The feds, though, were paying 90% of the cost and they got the final say. When the decision got to the newly installed Kennedy administration in 1961, Secretary of Commerce Luther Hodges rejected Virginia's advice and picked the northern route. Some darkly blamed Bill Battle, who was Kennedy's campaign manager in Virginia — and was from Charlottesville.

Kennedy and Battle went back a long way: He served with Kennedy in the same naval squadron during World War II and took part in rescuing Kennedy and his crewmates on PT-109 after their vessel was sunk by the Japanese and the men took refuge on a nearby island. Kennedy rewarded Battle by naming him ambassador to Australia; the name Battle may be familiar to some because a) he was Gov. Battle's son and b) he later became the Democratic nominee for governor in 1969, losing to Linwood Holton in that famous election. Did Kennedy also reward Battle's hometown with an interstate? Or was this just a perfunctory bureaucratic decision based on the fact that the Charlottesville route was cheaper? In an interview in 1999 with the Richmond Times-Dispatch, Battle said he never spoke with Kennedy about the routing decision. "There was nothing behind the scenes," he said. "I never
talked to [Kennedy] about it. I just went up there with a delegation from here and made our case. ... I guess we made a better case."

Whatever the circumstances of the decision, the fact remains: The Kennedy administration overruled Virginia's recommendation and routed I-64 through Charlottesville instead of Lynchburg. That's a decision that's arguably slowed the growth of Lynchburg's economy; it's unusual to find a city that size without an interstate. It's also arguably helped spur growth in Augusta County, where I-64 joins up with I-81. Over the years, I've met multiple people who work in Charlottesville but live in Staunton and Augusta County because it's cheaper — and an easy commute over Afton Mountain (at least when there's not any fog).

----------
One wonders how things might have played out if the southern route for I-64 was chosen to favor Lynchburg, Farmville, Bedford, and replace U.S. 220 from I-81 to Clifton Forge. U.S. 460 has been improved with bypasses around Bedford (although businesses are creeping east past the end of the bypass, adding traffic lights that slow progress), Lynchburg, and Appomattox. Getting from I-81 to Bedford is still at times a challenge, even with improvements at exit 150 on I-81. U.S. 220 north from there isn't too bad of a trip, unless there is a major wreck, until one gets to Eagle Rock and the end of the four lane.

Bruce in Blacksburg

[Bitmapped]

One wonders how things might have played out if the southern route for I-64 was chosen to favor Lynchburg, Farmville, Bedford, and replace U.S. 220 from I-81 to Clifton Forge. U.S. 460 has been improved with bypasses around Bedford (although businesses are creeping east past the end of the bypass, adding traffic lights that slow progress), Lynchburg, and Appomattox. Getting from I-81 to Bedford is still at times a challenge, even with improvements at exit 150 on I-81. U.S. 220 north from there isn't too bad of a trip, unless there is a major wreck, until one gets to Eagle Rock and the end of the four lane.

Does anyone have a map showing what this proposed southern alignment would have been? I've read the past Lynchburg then US 220 to Clifton Forge part before, but was the plan to bring the route that close to Roanoke without actually going into Roanoke? That seems way out of the way versus paralleling US 501 through the James River gap in the Blue Ridge coming northwest out of Lynchburg.