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Oklahoma City Metro Highways | Small projects and construction

Started by Plutonic Panda, July 14, 2016, 08:04:30 PM

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Plutonic Panda

Here's a new one to me. A proposal for a new interchange over May Avenue and Northwest Expressway it's proposed as a  DDI. For those of you who aren't too familiar with the Oklahoma City Metro referring to Northwest Expressway as an actual Expressway is being very kind. It's basically a stroad. But has something like this been done anywhere?

https://freepressokc.com/groundbreaking-designs-lead-plans-for-a-big-fix-in-nw-okc/

Also keep in mind this has not been selected as a preferred alternative.


Scott5114

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 03, 2024, 01:42:40 AMHere's a new one to me. A proposal for a new interchange over May Avenue and Northwest Expressway it's proposed as a  DDI. For those of you who aren't too familiar with the Oklahoma City Metro referring to Northwest Expressway as an actual Expressway is being very kind. It's basically a stroad. But has something like this been done anywhere?

https://freepressokc.com/groundbreaking-designs-lead-plans-for-a-big-fix-in-nw-okc/

Also keep in mind this has not been selected as a preferred alternative.

What do you mean by "something like this"? DDIs have been done before, and so have at-grade expressways having random interchanges on them.

Also, photo credit for @formulanone there!
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Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 03, 2024, 02:37:08 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 03, 2024, 01:42:40 AMHere's a new one to me. A proposal for a new interchange over May Avenue and Northwest Expressway it's proposed as a  DDI. For those of you who aren't too familiar with the Oklahoma City Metro referring to Northwest Expressway as an actual Expressway is being very kind. It's basically a stroad. But has something like this been done anywhere?

https://freepressokc.com/groundbreaking-designs-lead-plans-for-a-big-fix-in-nw-okc/

Also keep in mind this has not been selected as a preferred alternative.

What do you mean by "something like this"? DDIs have been done before, and so have at-grade expressways having random interchanges on them.

Also, photo credit for @formulanone there!
I've only seen DDI's on freeways. Not expressway. And call NWE an actual expressway is being polite.

Bobby5280

I think it's important to mention the existing intersection of May Avenue and Northwest Expressway is a partial cloverleaf interchange. And not a very good one either. Weaving conflicts are pretty bad along Northwest Expressway.

I'm not a fan of DDIs. They're a Poor Man's SPUI. A true SPUI would be better in that location. One central traffic signal on the bridge rather than multiple traffic signals on both sides of the bridge.

I wish they would re-name Northwest Expressway to something else. Nothing about it says "expressway." It is a surface street. But really busy surface streets can have grade-separated intersections. Colorado Springs has at least a couple of them, but they tend to use SPUIs rather than DDIs.

Plutonic Panda

I would think a simple tight diamond would suffice. I wish a couple other intersections would be converted as well but that's a pipe dream. Even though most of OKC's freeways got planned is built. A lot of the infrastructure is just horribly planned with no expansion and thought. I mean, even if you wanted to build a light real system, where the hell would it go? They're sure the hell isn't any fucking justification for expensive viaducts or subways.

And you're right about the current Cloverleaf it's horrible. There are missing movements and the ones that are there have absolutely no merge room in some areas. I'm so surprised there are not more accidents than they really are. I've been found at fault for about four accidents and two of them were in Oklahoma City. One was here and the other was at the I 35/240 interchange. Both times I rear ended a car because I was more focused on the traffic coming inbound than I was on the car in front of me as me being a dumb teenager thought the car had already moved that was in front of me.

Bobby5280

I don't agree with replacing the existing parclo with a simple diamond interchange. Any traffic exiting NW Expressway to May would get hung up at the traffic lights up at the ends of the ramps. That could lead to traffic back-ups that build backward into the main lanes of Northwest Expressway.

The nice thing about both DDI and SPUI interchanges is all right turn movements are more free-flowing and physically separated from left turn movements. The DDI would still have a downside for thru May Avenue traffic being hit with 2 traffic signals as opposed to only 1 with a SPUI.

The Ghostbuster

This may be the wrong thread for this, but have the Interstate 240 extension, and the new Interstates 335 and 344 been signposted yet? It appears they had not as of July of this year (according to Google Maps Street View).

Bobby5280

It has been a few weeks since I've been up to OKC. I didn't see any new Interstate route signs then.

Plutonic Panda

Even a parclo with better merging distances wouldn't be bad but why not a simply tight diamond? Cheap and easy. This is where it would make sense to me TBH. DDI or SPUI would be overkill here. There's other interchanges on actual freeways that could use and I can't make up my mind on whether or not I actually like DDI's or not.

TXtoNJ

Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 03, 2024, 09:24:42 AMI think it's important to mention the existing intersection of May Avenue and Northwest Expressway is a partial cloverleaf interchange. And not a very good one either. Weaving conflicts are pretty bad along Northwest Expressway.

I'm not a fan of DDIs. They're a Poor Man's SPUI. A true SPUI would be better in that location. One central traffic signal on the bridge rather than multiple traffic signals on both sides of the bridge.

I wish they would re-name Northwest Expressway to something else. Nothing about it says "expressway." It is a surface street. But really busy surface streets can have grade-separated intersections. Colorado Springs has at least a couple of them, but they tend to use SPUIs rather than DDIs.

That's a bit overstated. DDIs are a much better choice when most traffic is expected to turn onto the main thoroughfare. SPUIs are more appropriate when through traffic will be more equal.

SoonerCowboy

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 03, 2024, 12:34:50 PMThis may be the wrong thread for this, but have the Interstate 240 extension, and the new Interstates 335 and 344 been signposted yet? It appears they had not as of July of this year (according to Google Maps Street View).

I cannot speak for 344 but the Kickapoo has not be signposted for 335 as of yet.

okroads

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 03, 2024, 12:34:50 PMThis may be the wrong thread for this, but have the Interstate 240 extension, and the new Interstates 335 and 344 been signposted yet? It appears they had not as of July of this year (according to Google Maps Street View).

I was just on I-240 & I-44 near the airport last night. There have been new signs erected on both highways within the last couple weeks but I-240 is not signed along I-44 nor is it signed to Meridian. The END I-240 sign is still posted on westbound 240 at I-44.

Bobby5280

#212
Quote from: TXtoNJThat's a bit overstated. DDIs are a much better choice when most traffic is expected to turn onto the main thoroughfare. SPUIs are more appropriate when through traffic will be more equal.

May Avenue is a pretty busy street -especially in that location.

Quote from: Plutonic PandaEven a parclo with better merging distances wouldn't be bad but why not a simply tight diamond?

Did you not see what I wrote earlier about too much traffic getting hung up on the exit ramps? The NW Expressway/May Ave intersection is very busy. The exit ramps of an ordinary diamond interchange will not be adequate for that. There isn't enough real estate available to build a parclo with adequate loop ramps either.

I don't like DDIs very much, but a DDI would be much better in this location rather than an ordinary diamond interchange. Even with the existing interchange all the right turn movements are separated and don't have a traffic signal in the way. A diamond interchange would be a down-grade from that.

By the way, that interchange needs to be completely re-built anyway because it's old as hell. The May Avenue bridge going over Northwest Expressway looks like it is in really bad shape. The street is just riddled with pot holes and patch jobs.

Plutonic Panda

May Avenue definitely is pretty busy in this area but the shitty light set up by Best Buy at Home Depot and all that area is pretty bad too. I wish they would address that. I'm not proud of admitting that I break these traffic laws, but sometimes at night I'll just run those lights because they turn red for no reason. Currently there are no traffic signals on May Avenue over N. Northwest Expressway. Maybe a diverging diamond interchange would work good here. I'm not sure. I just think this is a really odd location for one. I wonder if there's any other ones like it in the country.

Henry

Quote from: SoonerCowboy on October 03, 2024, 09:17:15 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 03, 2024, 12:34:50 PMThis may be the wrong thread for this, but have the Interstate 240 extension, and the new Interstates 335 and 344 been signposted yet? It appears they had not as of July of this year (according to Google Maps Street View).

I cannot speak for 344 but the Kickapoo has not be signposted for 335 as of yet.
Quote from: okroads on October 03, 2024, 11:14:09 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 03, 2024, 12:34:50 PMThis may be the wrong thread for this, but have the Interstate 240 extension, and the new Interstates 335 and 344 been signposted yet? It appears they had not as of July of this year (according to Google Maps Street View).

I was just on I-240 & I-44 near the airport last night. There have been new signs erected on both highways within the last couple weeks but I-240 is not signed along I-44 nor is it signed to Meridian. The END I-240 sign is still posted on westbound 240 at I-44.
Until the Kickapoo Turnpike is extended south and west to I-35, there should not be any I-335 shields on it. As for I-240, the lack of any new signs for it along its extension just goes to show what a waste it truly is, especially when you consider part of it to be concurrent with I-44. But OTOH, I-344 isn't that bad a designation for the Kilpatrick, even if it's planned to make that nonsensical switch at one end.
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Bobby5280

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the I-344 designation along the Kilpatrick Turnpike if the I-344 designation was extended along the proposed Tri-City Connector Turnpike going West around Will Rogers Airport and down to I-44.

As long as I-344 and I-240 dead end into each other at the location of a partial exit to a surface street I don't mind the routes continuing to be left unsigned.

Scott5114

Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 03, 2024, 09:24:42 AMI wish they would re-name Northwest Expressway to something else. Nothing about it says "expressway."

Texas transplants like to call it "Northwest Highway" like the one in Dallas. Something tells me that's not really much better, though.
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Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 05, 2024, 07:23:01 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on October 03, 2024, 09:24:42 AMI wish they would re-name Northwest Expressway to something else. Nothing about it says "expressway."

Texas transplants like to call it "Northwest Highway" like the one in Dallas. Something tells me that's not really much better, though.
It needs to be made more into a freeway but not completely. If I had my way 39th would be turned into a freeway as well.

bugo

I-344 is a terrible number because it duplicates a similar highway in west Tulsa.

Bobby5280

Yeah, the I-344 designation for the Kilpatrick Turnpike is just blatantly idiotic. It absolutely smells of some kind of ego-driven turf war taking place within the state government. OK-344 was signed in the Tulsa area first on the Gilcrease Expressway. And it is extremely, plainly obvious the number chosen implied an eventual Interstate designation there. But some asshole in the OKC area had to prove his dick was bigger and so the I-344 designation got applied to the Kilpatrick there.

I'm down here in Lawton just feeling ashamed at the disgrace going on up there. The diva lawmakers pulling this crap need such a slap.

The Ghostbuster

Would you have rather they implemented the Interstate 240 beltway proposal from 2021? Although I considered that proposal ludicrous, it would have negated the need for the Interstate 344 designation (and the Interstate 335 designation for the existing segment of the Kickapoo Turnpike).

Bobby5280

I would not have minded I-240 overlapping all of the Kilpatrick Turnpike. The only thing I thought was stupid was them suggesting I-240 also be applied over the Kickapoo Turnpike. It has been clear the Kickapoo Turnpike would be extended farther South below I-40. So, obviously, it needs its own separate route number.

The "system" of having toll roads carry a 3XX number is also very silly. As I've said before, there are only 3 possible I-3XX routes that can be used in Oklahoma. And there is no way the remaining I-340 designation could be used in the Tulsa area.

As stupid as the idea was to apply "I-240" to the Kickapoo Turnpike (in addition to the Kilpatrick) any adherence to this "I-3XX" system means we could see I-344 applied over the Tri-City Connector Turnpike and East-West Connector Turnpike. That would create some baffling intersections and concurrencies with I-44.

Scott5114

I'm calling it that the east-west connector gets a number having to do with 37, either an extension of SH-37 or a new SH-337. Remember, 37 got truncated back to Tri-City a while back (although they hadn't removed the signs last time I was there, in March). So they may have done that in preparation for putting the SH-37 designation in a place where a number is actually needed, rather than on S. 4th Street in Moore, where it's ignored.
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jgb191

Might there be a future need to upgrade the I-40/I-240 interchange (located just a couple of miles north of Moore, OK) with a five-level stack?
We're so far south that we're not even considered "The South"

Scott5114

Quote from: jgb191 on October 06, 2024, 09:20:49 PMMight there be a future need to upgrade the I-40/I-240 interchange (located just a couple of miles north of Moore, OK) with a five-level stack?

It's currently in the process of being upgraded, but it doesn't have quite that many levels because ODOT is cheap.
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