New Jersey Turnpike

[roadman65]

Saw a new mileage sign SB somwhere south of Exit 4. Cities listed were Wlmington, Baltimore, and Washington DC. At that sign, DC was 140 miles away.

Well some on here will be dancing for joy as many on here think that Wilmington should not be a control city at all on the Turnpike south being it enters Delaware just south of it and Baltimore is more southward and where most vehicles head for leaving the Turnpike at Exit 1.

At least the next two major cities are mentioned for once and the NJTA is finally installing these signs as none have been added since the 10 at 10 mileage signs were removed over long periods of time in the past few decades.     Even the GSP is getting them slow but surely as well. 

[famartin]

Saw a new mileage sign SB somwhere south of Exit 4. Cities listed were Wlmington, Baltimore, and Washington DC. At that sign, DC was 140 miles away.

Well some on here will be dancing for joy as many on here think that Wilmington should not be a control city at all on the Turnpike south being it enters Delaware just south of it

Sorry, but that's just stupid. Wilmington is more appropriate than Trenton is. By Google Maps, the shortest drive from the NJ Turnpike to Wilmington city limits is 5 miles. Trenton's shortest is 7 miles.

[Mr. Matté]

https://www.nj.com/middlesex/2020/01/massive-delays-on-nj-turnpike-after-fiery-propane-truck-crash-forces-40-miles-of-lane-closures.html

Similar to our discussion of the recent PA Turnpike accident, 40 miles of the truck lanes northbound was closed causing up 2 hours of delays this morning. With such long stretches of road closed, why can't the NJTA implement something like truck lanes for exits 6-10 only northbound and if you want to go further north, gotta take the car lanes?

[jeffandnicole]

https://www.nj.com/middlesex/2020/01/massive-delays-on-nj-turnpike-after-fiery-propane-truck-crash-forces-40-miles-of-lane-closures.html

Similar to our discussion of the recent PA Turnpike accident, 40 miles of the truck lanes northbound was closed causing up 2 hours of delays this morning. With such long stretches of road closed, why can't the NJTA implement something like truck lanes for exits 6-10 only northbound and if you want to go further north, gotta take the car lanes?

Because it's nearly impossible to convey that to drivers effectively, especially those that don't know what exit number they need.  Many won't even pay attention to the signage. Forcing everyone off at Exit 10 will only lead to motorists making illegal u-turns at the toll plaza, or struggling to find their way back to the NJ Turnpike after they go thru the toll plaza at Exit 10.

[jeffandnicole]

Of course, the upside in NJ on the Turnpike is there's basically a parallel highway, if you think of the inner and outer roadways as being two separate highways, to keep people on the same route.  Even in South Jersey where the Turnpike is a single roadway, the parallel 295 offers a very convenient relief route. But when closures are necessary, the majority will stay on the Turnpike until they're forced to exit (and then yell at the toll collector that there were no signs, even though numerous VMSs encouraged such detours to 295).

If this happened in PA, or on nearly any other highway for that matter, people are forced onto local roadways. 

[famartin]

I'd think that a few conveniently placed crossover locations between exits (since the stretches can be quite long especially below 9) would be useful, though perhaps not enough to justify the cost of them.

[PHLBOS]

I'd think that a few conveniently placed crossover locations between exits (since the stretches can be quite long especially below 9) would be useful, though perhaps not enough to justify the cost of them.

FWIW, there are these median openings with 1000-ft advance signage (hence the Z-1000 notations) along the dual-carriageway portion of the Turnpike; but obviously, such isn't intended for public use.

[jeffandnicole]

I'd think that a few conveniently placed crossover locations between exits (since the stretches can be quite long especially below 9) would be useful, though perhaps not enough to justify the cost of them.

FWIW, there are these median openings with 1000-ft advance signage (hence the Z-1000 notations) along the dual-carriageway portion of the Turnpike; but obviously, such isn't intended for public use.

They have been used in emergency situations to get cars off a roadway that just closed due to an accident, but doing so causes the initial congestion - the right lane of the inner drive needs to be closed via State Police or Turnpike vehicle to allow traffic from the outer roadway to merge over (and vice versa if the inner drive was closed; a vehicle would need to block the left lane of the outer roadway).  And I would suspect that was done here as well until the outer roadway was cleared of traffic.

[Mr. Matté]

At least with the U-turn movement at exit 10, you go past the tollbooth and just stay to the left to get back on. They'd have to post some trailblazers just past the booth but there's definitely precedent to that like at exit 8 where the signs direct you to go for 33 west and keep left at the SPUI. That movement is definitely trickier than the exit 10 U-turn movement but I frequently see cars and trucks doing the "Exit 8 U-Turn" during my daily commute through that intersection.

Plus with the newer electronic signs from the 2013 expansion, you can display the lane split signs to say "EXITS 6-10 ONLY" and "ALL OTHER TRAFFIC." (maybe an Alps comment on feasibility?)

[Mergingtraffic]

When the outer roadway is closed are there actual barriers or just the sign that says ROADWAY CLOSED DO NOT ENTER?

[Beeper1]

I remember travelling the Turnpike about 10 years ago and the inner roadway SB was signed as "ROAD CLOSED - DO NOT ENTER" and the outer lanes signed as "ALL TRAFFIC".  Not sure why the inner lanes were closed, as they were marked as open at interchanges further south.    There were no physical barriers used, just the signage.

[jeffandnicole]

When the outer roadway is closed are there actual barriers or just the sign that says ROADWAY CLOSED DO NOT ENTER?

At the interchanges, there are gates that close off the roadway.

Going north between exit 5 and 6, the one time I experienced a roadway closure they closed the right lane using cones (with minimal signage announcing the lane closure prior to the closure), briefly making it a 2 lane roadway, then widened it to 3 lanes at the split. A few NJ Turnpike trucks were in position in the area, although if someone absolutely insisted on wanting to go thru the cones and enter the closed roadway, they could.  The signs for the open roadway had 3 down arrows; the closed roadway sign had 3 red x's.  When I went thru the area at 7am on a weekday, the 2 lanes were perfectly adequate to handle the traffic at that time.

[storm2k]

I remember travelling the Turnpike about 10 years ago and the inner roadway SB was signed as "ROAD CLOSED - DO NOT ENTER" and the outer lanes signed as "ALL TRAFFIC".  Not sure why the inner lanes were closed, as they were marked as open at interchanges further south.    There were no physical barriers used, just the signage.

That will happen when they do close one of the roadways during overnight hours for construction, but the barrel signs didn't pick up the command to go back to their normal configuration (cars only and cars-trucks-buses). You can see a radio antenna attached to each sign, they transmit the commands to change those signs via some sort of radio signal. I believe, though, that the new hybrid barrel/LCD signs in the 6-9 dualization are hooked up via fiber optics, and if they do get around to replacing the barrels north of exit 9, it would be the same.

[storm2k]

When the outer roadway is closed are there actual barriers or just the sign that says ROADWAY CLOSED DO NOT ENTER?

At the interchanges, there are gates that close off the roadway.

Going north between exit 5 and 6, the one time I experienced a roadway closure they closed the right lane using cones (with minimal signage announcing the lane closure prior to the closure), briefly making it a 2 lane roadway, then widened it to 3 lanes at the split. A few NJ Turnpike trucks were in position in the area, although if someone absolutely insisted on wanting to go thru the cones and enter the closed roadway, they could.  The signs for the open roadway had 3 down arrows; the closed roadway sign had 3 red x's.  When I went thru the area at 7am on a weekday, the 2 lanes were perfectly adequate to handle the traffic at that time.

When they close one of the roadways off for construction, they'll usually position several pieces of heavy highway equipment (dump trucks usually) in those lanes to really show it's blocked off. Seen it done with some trooper's cruisers as well.

[Alps]

https://www.nj.com/middlesex/2020/01/massive-delays-on-nj-turnpike-after-fiery-propane-truck-crash-forces-40-miles-of-lane-closures.html

Similar to our discussion of the recent PA Turnpike accident, 40 miles of the truck lanes northbound was closed causing up 2 hours of delays this morning. With such long stretches of road closed, why can't the NJTA implement something like truck lanes for exits 6-10 only northbound and if you want to go further north, gotta take the car lanes?

So, believe me, the NJTA has thought about this before. In a real pinch, you can of course shunt drivers off the next exit if the roadway is very closed, but then they lose revenue. There is one rest area (I think each way south of 8A) that facilitates a crossover without ever going through the parking lot, but it's not supposed to be used that way. None of these are intended to be implemented for traffic, only to get stuck drivers unstuck. The delays suck, but first of all, you've gotta travel through that bottleneck at some point (or go take US 130 if your destination is closer), and second of all, it is by far the operationally simplest solution to implement and monitor. Crossovers cost a lot of money to build as structures. You could, in theory, do a Local/Express style where an at-grade crossover merges into the adjacent lanes, and some distance down the road, another one merges back, rinse, repeat. But these may end up being closed except in emergencies, so why realign the roadway every mile or two for something traffic generally can't use? (I would imagine the NJTA does not want traffic switching roadways opportunely.)

[storm2k]

https://www.nj.com/middlesex/2020/01/massive-delays-on-nj-turnpike-after-fiery-propane-truck-crash-forces-40-miles-of-lane-closures.html

Similar to our discussion of the recent PA Turnpike accident, 40 miles of the truck lanes northbound was closed causing up 2 hours of delays this morning. With such long stretches of road closed, why can't the NJTA implement something like truck lanes for exits 6-10 only northbound and if you want to go further north, gotta take the car lanes?

So, believe me, the NJTA has thought about this before. In a real pinch, you can of course shunt drivers off the next exit if the roadway is very closed, but then they lose revenue. There is one rest area (I think each way south of 8A) that facilitates a crossover without ever going through the parking lot, but it's not supposed to be used that way. None of these are intended to be implemented for traffic, only to get stuck drivers unstuck. The delays suck, but first of all, you've gotta travel through that bottleneck at some point (or go take US 130 if your destination is closer), and second of all, it is by far the operationally simplest solution to implement and monitor. Crossovers cost a lot of money to build as structures. You could, in theory, do a Local/Express style where an at-grade crossover merges into the adjacent lanes, and some distance down the road, another one merges back, rinse, repeat. But these may end up being closed except in emergencies, so why realign the roadway every mile or two for something traffic generally can't use? (I would imagine the NJTA does not want traffic switching roadways opportunely.)

Wasn't there a plan in the works when they were doing the 6-9 dualization to put some sort of cross over in place north of 8A? I remember they had sign bridges up and everything only for them to be later taken down.

[Alps]

https://www.nj.com/middlesex/2020/01/massive-delays-on-nj-turnpike-after-fiery-propane-truck-crash-forces-40-miles-of-lane-closures.html

Similar to our discussion of the recent PA Turnpike accident, 40 miles of the truck lanes northbound was closed causing up 2 hours of delays this morning. With such long stretches of road closed, why can't the NJTA implement something like truck lanes for exits 6-10 only northbound and if you want to go further north, gotta take the car lanes?

So, believe me, the NJTA has thought about this before. In a real pinch, you can of course shunt drivers off the next exit if the roadway is very closed, but then they lose revenue. There is one rest area (I think each way south of 8A) that facilitates a crossover without ever going through the parking lot, but it's not supposed to be used that way. None of these are intended to be implemented for traffic, only to get stuck drivers unstuck. The delays suck, but first of all, you've gotta travel through that bottleneck at some point (or go take US 130 if your destination is closer), and second of all, it is by far the operationally simplest solution to implement and monitor. Crossovers cost a lot of money to build as structures. You could, in theory, do a Local/Express style where an at-grade crossover merges into the adjacent lanes, and some distance down the road, another one merges back, rinse, repeat. But these may end up being closed except in emergencies, so why realign the roadway every mile or two for something traffic generally can't use? (I would imagine the NJTA does not want traffic switching roadways opportunely.)

Wasn't there a plan in the works when they were doing the 6-9 dualization to put some sort of cross over in place north of 8A? I remember they had sign bridges up and everything only for them to be later taken down.

As I said, I know they've considered it. I doubt they would have put up sign bridges for something without firm plans for it, so those may have been temporary.

[SignBridge]

Alps, those at-grade crossovers wouldn't have to be every mile or two. They could just put them in maybe every ten miles or so, and keep them open normally. They wouldn't lose any toll revenue. And I'm sure they would be safe enough given the NJTA's usual competent engineering. Though I guess one problem might be that they don't want traffic entering from the left side on a high speed roadway, which would happen when crossing from the car lanes to the truck lanes.  I know that's why service areas were not built in the middle on the Turnpike, unlike on I-95 in Delaware and Maryland.

I know I-80 has at least one such crossover from the local to express lanes just east of the Garden State Parkway interchange. Are there any like that on I-78?

[Alps]

Alps, those at-grade crossovers wouldn't have to be every mile or two. They could just put them in maybe every ten miles or so, and keep them open normally. They wouldn't lose any toll revenue. And I'm sure they would be safe enough given the NJTA's usual competent engineering. Though I guess one problem might be that they don't want traffic entering from the left side on a high speed roadway, which would happen when crossing from the car lanes to the truck lanes.  I know that's why service areas were not built in the middle on the Turnpike, unlike on I-95 in Delaware and Maryland.

I know I-80 has at least one such crossover from the local to express lanes just east of the Garden State Parkway interchange. Are there any like that on I-78?

There are several on 78 in both directions. NJDOT is not averse to at-grade crossovers but I don't find it surprising the NJTA is. Note that the Parkway also has them, but these were built in the NJHA days and also are cars-only.

[jeffandnicole]

Wasn't there a plan in the works when they were doing the 6-9 dualization to put some sort of cross over in place north of 8A? I remember they had sign bridges up and everything only for them to be later taken down.

There was a temporary crossover in that area during the widening project, however it wasn't between two live roadways. The inner roadway was closed from 6 to 8A. Around 8A traffic could diverge to the inner roadway or remain on the outer roadway.  That was the purpose of those overheads.

There were never plans to permanently install a crossover between the two roadways.

[NJRoadfan]

There are several on 78 in both directions. NJDOT is not averse to at-grade crossovers but I don't find it surprising the NJTA is. Note that the Parkway also has them, but these were built in the NJHA days and also are cars-only.

The Parkway express-to-local crossovers are flyovers avoiding left-hand merges.

[RobbieL2415]

I remember travelling the Turnpike about 10 years ago and the inner roadway SB was signed as "ROAD CLOSED - DO NOT ENTER" and the outer lanes signed as "ALL TRAFFIC".  Not sure why the inner lanes were closed, as they were marked as open at interchanges further south.    There were no physical barriers used, just the signage.

The inner carriageway is closed late nite, I believe.  Or at least it was coming back from Philly last summer.

[Alps]

I remember travelling the Turnpike about 10 years ago and the inner roadway SB was signed as "ROAD CLOSED - DO NOT ENTER" and the outer lanes signed as "ALL TRAFFIC".  Not sure why the inner lanes were closed, as they were marked as open at interchanges further south.    There were no physical barriers used, just the signage.

The inner carriageway is closed late nite, I believe.  Or at least it was coming back from Philly last summer.

Depends if they need to do work.

[famartin]

I remember travelling the Turnpike about 10 years ago and the inner roadway SB was signed as "ROAD CLOSED - DO NOT ENTER" and the outer lanes signed as "ALL TRAFFIC".  Not sure why the inner lanes were closed, as they were marked as open at interchanges further south.    There were no physical barriers used, just the signage.

The inner carriageway is closed late nite, I believe.  Or at least it was coming back from Philly last summer.

Closures of either inner or outer roadways happen frequently at night for construction. Depends on the need. 

[jeffandnicole]

I remember travelling the Turnpike about 10 years ago and the inner roadway SB was signed as "ROAD CLOSED - DO NOT ENTER" and the outer lanes signed as "ALL TRAFFIC".  Not sure why the inner lanes were closed, as they were marked as open at interchanges further south.    There were no physical barriers used, just the signage.

The inner carriageway is closed late nite, I believe.  Or at least it was coming back from Philly last summer.

Not on a regular basis. Just as needed.