New Jersey

[bzakharin]

New Jersey is appropriate in many places where there is a single crossing to access the entire state. This is true on the one and only crossing from Delaware (forget the ferry) and the GWB and both tunnels from Manhattan. Not so much from PA, Staten Island, or the land border with New York State. If I had to pick one crossing from PA to be signed "New Jersey" it would be the Turnpike bridge, from I-276 only (not I-95), at least until access from 276 East to 295 East is available, and even then, 276 can have "New Jersey" as the destination to its terminus at 95/295.

It's never appropriate because states are not to be used as control cities. Also, you could always continue on another route and find an alternate crossing. NJ's not THAT small.

That's an arbitrary rule. Just because a rule exists doesn't mean it makes sense. At the locations I mentioned, finding another way into New Jersey is not feasible (or desirable).  Assuming regular traffic patterns, the Delaware Memorial Bridge is the only route no matter which part of NJ you're going to. If you're in Manhattan bound for New Jersey, you first priority is to leave the city by the shortest route possible. Only then do you decide how to get to wherever you're going.

[famartin]

New Jersey is appropriate in many places where there is a single crossing to access the entire state. This is true on the one and only crossing from Delaware (forget the ferry) and the GWB and both tunnels from Manhattan. Not so much from PA, Staten Island, or the land border with New York State. If I had to pick one crossing from PA to be signed "New Jersey" it would be the Turnpike bridge, from I-276 only (not I-95), at least until access from 276 East to 295 East is available, and even then, 276 can have "New Jersey" as the destination to its terminus at 95/295.

It's never appropriate because states are not to be used as control cities. Also, you could always continue on another route and find an alternate crossing. NJ's not THAT small.

That's an arbitrary rule. Just because a rule exists doesn't mean it makes sense. At the locations I mentioned, finding another way into New Jersey is not feasible (or desirable).  Assuming regular traffic patterns, the Delaware Memorial Bridge is the only route no matter which part of NJ you're going to. If you're in Manhattan bound for New Jersey, you first priority is to leave the city by the shortest route possible. Only then do you decide how to get to wherever you're going.

While what you say is true, it is not hard to sign the appropriate control cities for most of them. My picks:

NY 440 south (Outerbridge Crossing) - Perth Amboy
I-278 west (Goethals Br) - Elizabeth
NY 440 north (Bayonne Bridge) - Bayonne, Jersey City
I-78 west (Holland Tunnel) - Jersey City/Newark
NY/NJ 495 west (Lincoln Tunnel) - Secaucus
I-95 south (GWB) - Newark (could include Paterson if you signed "to I-80" as well, which would be appropriate seeing as many people still think of NYC as I-80's terminus)

I-295 north/US 40 east/to NJ Turnpike (Del Mem Br) - Camden, Atlantic City, New York City
US 322 east (Comm Barry Br) - Atlantic City
I-76 east (Walt Whitman Br) - Camden, Atlantic City
I-676 east/south (Ben Franklin Br) - Camden, Atlantic City
NJ 90 east (Betsy Ross Br) - Pennsauken, Cherry Hill

[Alps]

New Jersey is appropriate in many places where there is a single crossing to access the entire state. This is true on the one and only crossing from Delaware (forget the ferry) and the GWB and both tunnels from Manhattan. Not so much from PA, Staten Island, or the land border with New York State. If I had to pick one crossing from PA to be signed "New Jersey" it would be the Turnpike bridge, from I-276 only (not I-95), at least until access from 276 East to 295 East is available, and even then, 276 can have "New Jersey" as the destination to its terminus at 95/295.

It's never appropriate because states are not to be used as control cities. Also, you could always continue on another route and find an alternate crossing. NJ's not THAT small.

That's an arbitrary rule. Just because a rule exists doesn't mean it makes sense. At the locations I mentioned, finding another way into New Jersey is not feasible (or desirable).  Assuming regular traffic patterns, the Delaware Memorial Bridge is the only route no matter which part of NJ you're going to. If you're in Manhattan bound for New Jersey, you first priority is to leave the city by the shortest route possible. Only then do you decide how to get to wherever you're going.

More of the rationale is that states are large, so it is more helpful to know which part of the state you are going to. From Staten Island, say "Elizabeth, NJ" at the Goethals, or "Woodbridge, NJ" at the Outerbridge. Now you still know you're going to New Jersey, plus you have a city for reference!

[mrsman]

New Jersey is appropriate in many places where there is a single crossing to access the entire state. This is true on the one and only crossing from Delaware (forget the ferry) and the GWB and both tunnels from Manhattan. Not so much from PA, Staten Island, or the land border with New York State. If I had to pick one crossing from PA to be signed "New Jersey" it would be the Turnpike bridge, from I-276 only (not I-95), at least until access from 276 East to 295 East is available, and even then, 276 can have "New Jersey" as the destination to its terminus at 95/295.

It's never appropriate because states are not to be used as control cities. Also, you could always continue on another route and find an alternate crossing. NJ's not THAT small.

That's an arbitrary rule. Just because a rule exists doesn't mean it makes sense. At the locations I mentioned, finding another way into New Jersey is not feasible (or desirable).  Assuming regular traffic patterns, the Delaware Memorial Bridge is the only route no matter which part of NJ you're going to. If you're in Manhattan bound for New Jersey, you first priority is to leave the city by the shortest route possible. Only then do you decide how to get to wherever you're going.

While what you say is true, it is not hard to sign the appropriate control cities for most of them. My picks:

NY 440 south (Outerbridge Crossing) - Perth Amboy
I-278 west (Goethals Br) - Elizabeth
NY 440 north (Bayonne Bridge) - Bayonne, Jersey City
I-78 west (Holland Tunnel) - Jersey City/Newark
NY/NJ 495 west (Lincoln Tunnel) - Secaucus
I-95 south (GWB) - Newark (could include Paterson if you signed "to I-80" as well, which would be appropriate seeing as many people still think of NYC as I-80's terminus)

I-295 north/US 40 east/to NJ Turnpike (Del Mem Br) - Camden, Atlantic City, New York City
US 322 east (Comm Barry Br) - Atlantic City
I-76 east (Walt Whitman Br) - Camden, Atlantic City
I-676 east/south (Ben Franklin Br) - Camden, Atlantic City
NJ 90 east (Betsy Ross Br) - Pennsauken, Cherry Hill

Agree with all these choices except US 322.  Since it is more of a local route, Swedesboro or Glassboro would be more appropriate.

[roadman65]

In the days of old signing states (as well as border cities) were a good point of reference for the older two lane highways.  Florida still has it for US 1 north as Hilliard (the last city before the US highway leaves FL for GA) is used on mileage signs  from Jacksonville (originally St. Augustine) as the primary control after Jacksonville or Callahan.  You only saw Folkston (the first city in GA, not the largest though along US 1 or 301)at Callahan where Hilliard becomes the first city on the sign and the next city is in Georgia which is Folkston.

Easton too was used over Allentown along US 22 in the early days cause it told people leaving NYC area a place that is where you enter the next state and in the old days of traveling state lines were a great point of reference. Even Virginia uses the NC State Line on a few signs.  VA 189 used it for years until it got absorbed into the new US 58 alignment around Franklin.

Delaware Memorial Bridge was always used because it was a place that originally linked highways.  The NJ Turnpike to both US 13 and the Delaware Turnpike (pre I-95) which was a crossroads really.  Add US 40 to the mix well and you had like a mega interchange sort of.  Folks leaving NYC would go south on the NJ Turnpike and then pick from US 13 and later I-95, but the toll roads to Baltimore Washington to go further south.  It actually was treated like a city in a crazy kind of way.

[Duke87]

I-95 south (GWB) - Newark (could include Paterson if you signed "to I-80" as well, which would be appropriate seeing as many people still think of NYC as I-80's terminus)

There are, in fact, some new signs on the Cross Bronx that use "Newark NJ" as the control city for I-95 southbound. I find this a bit awkward though due to the fact that once you get to the NJ side of the GWB you can in short order branch off in a number of directions that span a full 180 degrees on the compass, and no majority of the traffic goes in any single direction. This is a case where "Geo Washington Br" - the traditional control 'city' for I-95 south, by the way - objectively makes sense even if guidance regarding control city selection frowns upon it.

I mean I get the concern that "people not from the area may not be familiar with bridge names", but the GWB is widely known enough that this isn't really an issue. Someone from Wyoming or wherever is just as if not more likely to have never heard of Newark as to have never heard of the George Washington Bridge.

[roadman65]

Yes the bridge is important but they are looking for through traffic on the numbered route now.  Actually both could be used really, or maybe just Fort Lee.  That is the issue of a bridge connecting many major highways on both ends.

That is what I said about the Delaware Memorial Bridge as people in the past now have not all stayed on the 95 corridor, but many used to use US 13 to Norfolk, and US 301 to Annapolis as well.  Some even used US 40 to shunpike the toll roads, and for the longest time "Balt" was used at the Farnhurst Split.  Now DelDOT signs that split for US 13 and 40 as just the Airport and for over two decades left out Baltimore, Annapolis, and Norfolk for the more local destinations.  That may be due to DE 1 opening up to I-95, but its not the same there either

I like how the Palisades Interstate Parkway used to sign its unnumbered last exit before the Bridge as "All NJ Highways" covering all bases as southbound PIP traffic distributed itself evenly along all the routes leading away from that road.  Now it ( I think) is redone with new replaced signs pointing mainly to I-95 South as well.  Have not checked GSV in some time but the last check was just I-95 and I-80, NJ 4, and US 46.  At least too, that is less ambiguous, but pointing out all the only options as "NJ Highways was way to broad."


BTW, on the US 206 Hillsborough Bypass, I see work has resumed on it from Google Satellite images.  I also see on GSV that part of it is divided with only a single lane each way not four lanes or two with a double yellow line either.

[jeffandnicole]

That is what I said about the Delaware Memorial Bridge as people in the past now have not all stayed on the 95 corridor, but many used to use US 13 to Norfolk, and US 301 to Annapolis as well.  Some even used US 40 to shunpike the toll roads, and for the longest time "Balt" was used at the Farnhurst Split.  Now DelDOT signs that split for US 13 and 40 as just the Airport and for over two decades left out Baltimore, Annapolis, and Norfolk for the more local destinations.  That may be due to DE 1 opening up to I-95, but its not the same there either

You mean this split, now signed for Dover & Wilmington?  https://goo.gl/maps/fLYAcsMPUEn2fRMq9

[storm2k]

BTW, on the US 206 Hillsborough Bypass, I see work has resumed on it from Google Satellite images.  I also see on GSV that part of it is divided with only a single lane each way not four lanes or two with a double yellow line either.

Currently the southern end of it is a divided super 2. This is a lot like the eastern end of the 33 bypass in Freehold that was built in the early aughts which was designed to be expandable to 4 divided lanes when traffic loads warranted it. I believe that once the Hillsborough bypass is completed in full and becomes actual 206 it will be restriped as a 4 lane divided roadway. Hopefully without any super poorly designed exit ramps that can't ever be allowed to open unlike the 33 bypass.

[Alps]

BTW, on the US 206 Hillsborough Bypass, I see work has resumed on it from Google Satellite images.  I also see on GSV that part of it is divided with only a single lane each way not four lanes or two with a double yellow line either.

Currently the southern end of it is a divided super 2. This is a lot like the eastern end of the 33 bypass in Freehold that was built in the early aughts which was designed to be expandable to 4 divided lanes when traffic loads warranted it. I believe that once the Hillsborough bypass is completed in full and becomes actual 206 it will be restriped as a 4 lane divided roadway. Hopefully without any super poorly designed exit ramps that can't ever be allowed to open unlike the 33 bypass.

Parts of the new 206 won't be wide enough for 4 lanes, so don't go expecting any restripes.

[storm2k]

BTW, on the US 206 Hillsborough Bypass, I see work has resumed on it from Google Satellite images.  I also see on GSV that part of it is divided with only a single lane each way not four lanes or two with a double yellow line either.

Currently the southern end of it is a divided super 2. This is a lot like the eastern end of the 33 bypass in Freehold that was built in the early aughts which was designed to be expandable to 4 divided lanes when traffic loads warranted it. I believe that once the Hillsborough bypass is completed in full and becomes actual 206 it will be restriped as a 4 lane divided roadway. Hopefully without any super poorly designed exit ramps that can't ever be allowed to open unlike the 33 bypass.

Parts of the new 206 won't be wide enough for 4 lanes, so don't go expecting any restripes.

Really? I thought the whole point of this thing was to have a 4 lane divided bypass of the Hillsborough CBD, and that this combined with the widening of the road from Brown Ave to the northern end of the bypass was going to finally get the 4 lane roadway from the Somerville Circle to Belle Meade that was in the works for like 25 years now.

[storm2k]

Someone posted this glorious image of downtown Cranford from 1930 on the /r/newjersey Reddit today, back when Route 22 ran through town and was signed alongside Route 28. Check out those awesome old school shields.

[roadman65]

Yes agreed US 206 needs to be widened as I drove it in 2012 and it was horrific.  When I lived there before 1990 it was bad then, and the ultimate plan in the 70's and 80's was to have it four lanes from the Somerville Circle into never built NJ 92.  NJ 92 was to originally tie into Exit 8 hence the present NJ 133 ROW.  Then it was moved to align with NJ 32 in South Brunswick and first as a NJDOT project and then a NJTA project.  Sadly it never got built as that would be a great route from the Bridgewater- Somerville area to South Jersey and connect US 206 to the turnpike better.

[storm2k]

The late 90s widening from Bridge St to Brown Ave definitely helped a lot. I know the need to reconstruct the Conrail overpass was a big dampener to them doing something for a long time, so I was glad to see they are finally tackling that. Hopefully that last bit of widening combined with the Hillsborough bypass will help make traffic more manageable along the entire stretch.

[ixnay]

Someone posted this glorious image of downtown Cranford from 1930 on the /r/newjersey Reddit today, back when Route 22 ran through town and was signed alongside Route 28. Check out those awesome old school shields.

Not to mention the equally old school no parking signs.

ixnay

[roadman65]

The late 90s widening from Bridge St to Brown Ave definitely helped a lot. I know the need to reconstruct the Conrail overpass was a big dampener to them doing something for a long time, so I was glad to see they are finally tackling that. Hopefully that last bit of widening combined with the Hillsborough bypass will help make traffic more manageable along the entire stretch.

So that overpass where the former LVRR crossed is being redone?  Wow, I am impressed.  I know NJ had it issues as look how long it took for NJDOT to replace the Elizabeth River viaduct in Elizabeth on US 1 & 9.  Things for decades got pushed back including Route 31, which still needs  more widening than is been done already, due to resources not that easily available.  Projects go on a first need basis for safety rather than other volume relief projects.

I also heard a rumor back in the 1980's too that the late Doris Duke did not help US 206 getting widened as she played JR Ewing games with the state.  I heard if NJDOT attempted to four lane any part of US 206 south of Raritan, she was going to build an AIDS hospital on her estate which fronts the highway south of the Raritan River.  Being that the widening took place after her death, I wonder if she really could have issued a stumbling block being people were very homophobic back in the 1980's.

[jeffandnicole]

I-80 Rockfall Mitigation Project

https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/works/rockfall/

Between I-80's MP 1.04 & 1.45, NJDOT is going to undergo a project to reduce the number of occasions where rocks are falling on the roadway.  Some accidents have resulted, including 1 death, and NJDOT reports weekly cleanup of smaller rocks that have landed on the roadway.

Should you wish to provide an opinion of the 7 alternatives ( https://www.state.nj.us/transportation/works/rockfall/pdf/Alternatives.pdf ), which range from fencing to excavation to a covered roadway, and ranging from $37 million to $200 million in cost, you have till Aug 1 to respond.

[odditude]

which range from fencing to evacuation to a covered roadway

excavation, not evacuation.

[jeffandnicole]

which range from fencing to evacuation to a covered roadway

excavation, not evacuation.

Ha!  Thanks.

[odditude]

which range from fencing to evacuation to a covered roadway

excavation, not evacuation.

Ha!  Thanks.

my first reaction was a mental image of rocks being told to keep calm while being escorted away in an orderly fashion

[Alps]

which range from fencing to evacuation to a covered roadway

excavation, not evacuation.

Ha!  Thanks.

my first reaction was a mental image of rocks being told to keep calm while being escorted away in an orderly fashion

We would love to escort them away in an orderly fashion, as opposed to blasting them out.

[roadman65]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/8501125029/in/album-72157632833956641/
Are all the jug handle signs now like this with the ALL TURNS inside the green guide?  I noticed this back in 2012 along Route 36 in Middletown, NJ.  NJ always had the street name or control cities (or both usually with the street usually underlined) on one sign and beneath it on another would be another white sign with ALL TURNS in black letters on them.

Is this a rare case of use of one sign for all, or is NJDOT changing all jug handle signing to resemble this format?

[jeffandnicole]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/8501125029/in/album-72157632833956641/
Are all the jug handle signs now like this with the ALL TURNS inside the green guide?  I noticed this back in 2012 along Route 36 in Middletown, NJ.  NJ always had the street name or control cities (or both usually with the street usually underlined) on one sign and beneath it on another would be another white sign with ALL TURNS in black letters on them.

Is this a rare case of use of one sign for all, or is NJDOT changing all jug handle signing to resemble this format?

One-off, or case by case basis.

A new jughandle near me didn't receive this treatment. 
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GdJUqFFRn3EBfNGg8

[roadman65]

Glad to see the mixed case though.  Even though I grew up with the all caps its nice to see mixed case. I even grew used to street blades being now all mixed in Florida despite they did not bother me when all upper in the early 90's.

Wonder if the new MUTCD signs will keep the underscored road names?  Or is the names of roads and towns not going to be used like in the freeway signs that the MUTCD frowns upon?

Addition:  I see NJDOT is going with the route number on mileposts.
https://goo.gl/maps/L886FPT8ZNLjzBrY8

[Alps]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/8501125029/in/album-72157632833956641/
Are all the jug handle signs now like this with the ALL TURNS inside the green guide?  I noticed this back in 2012 along Route 36 in Middletown, NJ.  NJ always had the street name or control cities (or both usually with the street usually underlined) on one sign and beneath it on another would be another white sign with ALL TURNS in black letters on them.

Is this a rare case of use of one sign for all, or is NJDOT changing all jug handle signing to resemble this format?

One-off, or case by case basis.

A new jughandle near me didn't receive this treatment. 
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GdJUqFFRn3EBfNGg8

Yup. NJDOT signs made it into the MUTCD, so we'll keep on using them.