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Started by mgk920, October 10, 2024, 11:22:25 AM

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Big John

#25
^^ I recall the Superdome finally reopened in week 3 of the 2006 season and they needed all that time to make it ready for occupancy.


SP Cook

The Rays and MLB have pretty much admitted that the stadium will not be ready for opening day 25.  Cost of repairing the roof in one article I read is "nine figures", which seems high to me, and the question of priorities when workers, and tax money, are needed to repair more important public works like roads, hospitals, etc. along with people's homes and places of work and business. 

The list floating around:

- Yankees spring training facility, Steinbrenner Field, Tampa.  11,026, with room for temporary seating.  As discussed, rain is the issue, along with figuring out what to do about the Yankees' Class A+ league and complex league teams, who play there.

- Al Lang Stadium, St. Petersburg.  7,227.  Again, rain.  The place is 60 years old and hasn't been used for spring training since 08.  Very out of date.

- Phillies spring training facility, BayCare Ballpark, Clearwater.  8,500.  Again, rain, and again, what to do with the A+ league, that plays there.

- Blue Jays spring training facility, TD Ballpark, Dunedin.  8,500.  Again, rain and A+ baseball.  Most major league ready of any field, the Blue Jays played there early in the c-word panic/pandemic and baseball had the place built for possible use if they had to break a strike, as Ontario does not allow permanent replacement workers. 

- Rays spring training facility, Charlotte Sports Park.  7,670.  Same rain issues, but no A+ team (the Rays A+ team is in Bowling Green, KY).  Located pretty far from Tampa Bay, and in a much less populated region of Florida.

- The Stadium at the ESPN Wide World of Sports, inside Disney World.  7,500, easily expandable.  Former Braves spring training facility.  Intergrated into the Disney World traffic system (most spring training parks are not that traffic friendly). 

- Rays AAA stadium, Durham Bulls Athletic Park, Durham, NC.  10,000, easily expandable.  Only issue is the size of Durham, the objections the Braves and Nationals/Orioles might have to a team playing in their (claimed) home markets, and the size of the market.

- White Sox AAA stadium, Truist Field, Charlotte, NC. 11,210, some expansion possible.  See Braves above, and, for reasons I don't understand, the Reds, also claim western NC.  Near the NFL stadium, parking is easy and right by the interstate. 

- Olympic Stadium, Montreal.  56,040.  An architectural malpractice (the designer had never seen a baseball or American/Canadian football game; the retractable roof never worked properly) it is a big reason baseball didn't work there (the place was not designed to be rained on, and had a permanent wet basement type condition, plus open air baseball in the Canadian spring and fall didn't work).  But the Blue Jays play there once a year and the Fire Marshal, or whatever they call it up in Quebec, says its fit for use.

- Hiram Bithorn Stadium, San Juan.  18,000.  The Expos played there part time for their last two years, and there have been other games there as well.  Place is run down, so I read.

And, what appears to be the front runner:

- Charles Schwab Field, Omaha, NE. 24,500, expandable to 35,000.  The largest baseball stadium in the USA to not have a professional team (the Royals AAA team plays at a smaller stadium in the metro area) it is where the College World Series is held.  The only issues are what the KC Royals would say and the size of the Omaha metro area. 


SEWIGuy

Quote from: hobsini2 on October 16, 2024, 08:05:56 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on October 12, 2024, 11:21:51 AM- I have no idea what is involved with repairing such a roof, but clearly this is not an off-the-shelf item.  Having a roof up and running by Opening Day 25 seems impossible.

- The place was designed as an indoor stadium.  Just removing the roof and using it as an outdoor stadium won't work.  No drainage, etc.

- The most logical thing would be to either use one of the spring training parks, the largest being the Yankees which is actually in Tampa.  Most have a number of auxiliary fields around them and can easily accommodate temporary bleachers and such to get to 20 or 25 K seats.  Another possibility is the Braves old spring training site inside Disney World, which is still there unused, thus no worries about what to do with a displaced minor league team and integrated into the Disney traffic system, whereas many spring training venues are designed for the 2 to 5 K that might go to a game on a weekend, and are not positioned well for larger crowds in terms of parking and road networks.

- They have to fix the roof.  You cannot play 4 years in a minor league park, and the reason they have a roof in the first place is the number of rain outs would be unacceptable anywhere in that region.  None of the spring training parks have roofs, and you cannot have that many rain out for four long years.


The Superdome was fixed in about 3 months. The Metrodome was fixed in 2 months. So timewise, it is possible. The question is with the Rays wanting a new ballpark, would they invest in a new roof for a park they may only be in for a few more seasons?

It's probably covered by insurance.

hobsini2

A question that is kind of a tangent to this...
What is the worst weather experience you had while attending a sporting event?

For me, hands down it is the Halloween Monday Night Football game in 1994 with the Packers and Bears at Soldier Field. It was a monsoon type of rain most of the day and the wind was whipping off the lake about 40 knots. That morning, it was about 50. By game time, it was 40 with a wind chill in the teens. By the 4th quarter, the rain turned to snow. According to the NWS, that night was a record in rainfall ever for October 31st at 2.26 inches. Never felt so miserable but so happy with the outcome. Packers won 33-6.
The box score shows how difficult it was to play too.
Rushing:
GB - 45-223-4
CHI - 28-94-0
Passing:
GB - 6/15-82-1-0
CHI - 21/35-174-1-3
Fumbles:
GB 1/0 lost - CHI 4/2 lost
https://youtu.be/9qnSX34ADmI?si=MoDquCJRFeEc4PDo
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epzik8

The Oakland Rays wouldn't even make me bat an eye given the craziness of this decade.
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

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gonealookin

Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 16, 2024, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on October 16, 2024, 08:05:56 AMThe Superdome was fixed in about 3 months. The Metrodome was fixed in 2 months. So timewise, it is possible. The question is with the Rays wanting a new ballpark, would they invest in a new roof for a park they may only be in for a few more seasons?

It's probably covered by insurance.

The Tampa Bay Times ran a story about the insurance issue.  Earlier this year the City of St. Petersburg chose to significantly reduce its insurance coverage on the Trop in order to save on the premium.  Whoops.

Quote from: Tampa Bay TimesOne of the city's insurance policies, Gerdes said, will pay for $45 million of the first $50 million in repairs. But that includes damages at the Pier, sea walls, the municipal services center and other city assets. There has been no publicly released tally, but the city incurred millions in damages separate from the Trop.

Another insurance policy has a $25 million limit but includes a 5% deductible of the total insured value. The Trop's value, according to insurance documents, is $441 million. That would translate to a $22 million deductible. That policy had previously had a $100 million limit, but the city opted to reduce it in March because modeling predicted a maximum loss of $33 million-$39 million based on a once-in-250-years storm event.

The city saved about $275,000 in premium payments by reducing the insurance limit.

So if they do choose to repair, the city pays the first $22 million, insurance pays the next $25 million, and the city is on the hook for anything beyond that $47 million...which, as the article suggests, likely means an estimate exceeding $47 million makes repair financially impractical.

And there's even a question in there of the insurance company challenging the claim due to the roof having greatly exceeded its original life expectancy.

Quote from: Tampa Bay TimesThere is also the question of whether insurers will dispute the policy based on the condition of the stadium's roof.

"If the roof was deemed in poor condition prior to the storm because it has surpassed its expected lifespan by nearly a decade, the entire claim for Milton damage at the stadium could be denied by insurers," said Mark Friedlander, director of corporate communications for the Insurance Information Institute.

An official at the firm that installed the roof at Tropicana in 1989 told The Athletic that the Teflon fabric had a shelf life of approximately 25 years.

GaryV

Quote from: hobsini2 on October 23, 2024, 01:23:37 PMWhat is the worst weather experience you had while attending a sporting event?

Probably the most severe weather was a thunderstorm at a U of M game. My son played in the marching band. The football players all went off the field to hide from lightning. The band - with all their metal instruments - stayed in the stands a played pep tunes.

Most miserable was a very rainy, cold night game at Western Michigan when my daughter was in the band. We stayed only through halftime. Later talking to my daughter, she said, "Of course we could see you. You were the only people in the whole section."

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: hobsini2 on October 23, 2024, 01:23:37 PMWhat is the worst weather experience you had while attending a sporting event?

A few candidates:

11/18/84 - Lions at Bears - 36 degrees at kickoff, wind chill in the low 20s. was 10 years old. Wouldn't even attempt this now.

11/8/91 - HS football game at Royal Center, IN. Kickoff temp was 24 degrees, wind chill in the teens. As equipment manager and statistician, I had to be outside continuously for about 4 hours, writing for about 2.5 hours.

8/31/24 - Notre Dame at Texas A&M - 92 degrees at kickoff with little breeze and 70% humidity. Had the game been an afternoon game and/or had my seats not been covered, I would not have made it the entire game.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Max Rockatansky

There was a really bad series of thunderstorms at a Talladega race I attended with my dad in high school.  During the worst of it some campers in the in-field brought kerosene lamps into their tent and died overnight.  The day of the rain was cloudless, and my dad forgot the sunscreen at the hotel.  I was sunburned so badly that I was peeling dead skin off my arms in strips for about a week after.

Big John

Raiders at Packers in 1993. Was about 0 actual temperature. This was the game where the Lambeau Leap was invented by Leroy Butler.

gonealookin

Quote from: GaryV on October 24, 2024, 02:56:41 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on October 23, 2024, 01:23:37 PMWhat is the worst weather experience you had while attending a sporting event?

Probably the most severe weather was a thunderstorm at a U of M game. My son played in the marching band. The football players all went off the field to hide from lightning. The band - with all their metal instruments - stayed in the stands a played pep tunes.

I find lightning delays at golf tournaments particularly aggravating.  As a spectator, exactly what the heck are you supposed to do?  You may be out on the course a mile from the entrance gate, which is usually where any facility that could serve as a shelter could be.  The players and caddies get cart rides back to the clubhouse, but the spectators and volunteers are left to walk it.

And even then, there's not usually much shelter space.  Those "hospitality" structures you see around some of the greens?  Nope, you need a special badge to enter those.  Go out and sit in your car?  At most tournaments the parking is at some remote lot a few miles away, and you get to the course by shuttle bus, so that's not too practical if the delay isn't expected to be long.  The scoreboards usually say something like "Play Suspended Due to Lightning - Avoid trees and open spaces".  Well, what is a golf course other than trees and open spaces?

I've never experienced any truly awful weather at a sporting event, probably because the huge majority of the ones I've attended have been in California.  There was one football game in Berkeley while I was a student where rain poured the entire day.  The stadium had a natural grass field at the time, and after the band left the field at halftime you could see the muddy tracks left by their marching patterns.  The second half of the game was a good old-fashioned Mud Bowl.

roadman65

I still remember that one game at Soldiers Field in Chicago where a sudden fog came and it was so thick the announcers in the broadcast booth couldn't see the game from their vantage point.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

thspfc

One October in high school I played in a soccer game with snow flurries during the first half. One of those things that sucks in the moment but later you realize you'll never experience anything else quite like it.

Also in HS a tornado siren went off during a track meet of mine, which everyone thought was real because it was a blustery day with scattered showers. In reality it was a (very oddly timed) test, and it was too cold for a tornado to ever exist anyway.


Was not at this game, but Ravens/Bears in 2013 is one of the most unique weather games ever in the NFL.

Big John

Quote from: roadman65 on October 24, 2024, 06:21:22 PMI still remember that one game at Soldiers Field in Chicago where a sudden fog came and it was so thick the announcers in the broadcast booth couldn't see the game from their vantage point.
1988 fog bowl. Playoff game vs. the Eagles.

hobsini2

Quote from: thspfc on October 24, 2024, 06:22:30 PMOne October in high school I played in a soccer game with snow flurries during the first half. One of those things that sucks in the moment but later you realize you'll never experience anything else quite like it.

Also in HS a tornado siren went off during a track meet of mine, which everyone thought was real because it was a blustery day with scattered showers. In reality it was a (very oddly timed) test, and it was too cold for a tornado to ever exist anyway.


Was not at this game, but Ravens/Bears in 2013 is one of the most unique weather games ever in the NFL.
I remember the Ravens/Bears game on the radio. I was actually storm chasing that day down in Braidwood and Dwight. While not the worst tornado that day (Washington IL was with an F4), Coal City was hit with an F2.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

mgk920

Quote from: Big John on October 24, 2024, 05:06:16 PMRaiders at Packers in 1993. Was about 0 actual temperature. This was the game where the Lambeau Leap was invented by Leroy Butler.

I was at that game, too.  Cool, but sunny.  that 'leap' was three sections to my right (I was in our family seats in the front row).  My late father was at the 1967 Cowboys @ Packers NFL championship game, the 'Ice Bowl (I still have his ticket stub).  That one was clear sunshine, COLD and WINDY.

Mike



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