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Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33904.0
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Author Topic: Interstate 81 in Syracuse  (Read 234776 times)

interstatefan990

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1350 on: February 17, 2023, 02:42:16 PM »

Certainly a unique perspective, especially given other discussions on the forum regarding scenery along the Thruway.

You're telling me this is scenic?

Most normal people would say the Thruway west of Albany, not north...

There's no Thruway east of Albany, so that's not a much better alternative. "The Thruway past Albany" is what I think you're trying to say.

The Berkshire Connector says hi

I was talking about the mainline, but you're right. One really can never be too specific.  :D
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webny99

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1351 on: February 17, 2023, 03:11:33 PM »

Most normal people would say the Thruway west of Albany, not north...

There's no Thruway east of Albany, so that's not a much better alternative. "The Thruway past Albany" is what I think you're trying to say.

North of Albany made me think of the Northway, which is sometimes confused with the Thruway because I-87 is designated on both. I think just "I-90 west of Albany" is what you're referring to. 

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kalvado

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1352 on: February 17, 2023, 04:53:37 PM »

Certainly a unique perspective, especially given other discussions on the forum regarding scenery along the Thruway.

You're telling me this is scenic?

Most normal people would say the Thruway west of Albany, not north...

There's no Thruway east of Albany, so that's not a much better alternative. "The Thruway past Albany" is what I think you're trying to say.

Maybe the purpose was to exclude part of Buffalo-Erie stretch from generalization?

Correct. I've never driven that stretch (but am planning to this summer), so I can't really speak to the scenery of that portion anyway.
There certainly is Thruway east of Albany. It is called "Berkshire spur"
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interstatefan990

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1353 on: February 17, 2023, 05:40:17 PM »

There certainly is Thruway east of Albany. It is called "Berkshire spur"

Read my last reply.  :pan:
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1354 on: February 17, 2023, 05:47:35 PM »

Heck with this silly conversation.  Need to get back to I-81.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1355 on: February 17, 2023, 05:59:28 PM »

Heck with this silly conversation.  Need to get back to I-81.
Well soon there won't be an I-81 in Syracuse anymore.
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Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

kalvado

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1356 on: February 17, 2023, 07:13:34 PM »

Heck with this silly conversation.  Need to get back to I-81.
Well soon there won't be an I-81 in Syracuse anymore.
There will be two versions of I-81. A former 481, and never dying Viaduct. Following Albany tradition one of them can be Alternative 81
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Henry

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1357 on: February 17, 2023, 08:29:05 PM »

Heck with this silly conversation.  Need to get back to I-81.
Well soon there won't be an I-81 in Syracuse anymore.
There will be two versions of I-81. A former 481, and never dying Viaduct. Following Albany tradition one of them can be Alternative 81
Surely, old I-481 will be worked on first before the viaduct goes down, right? Then BL 81 through the community grid!
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kalvado

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1358 on: February 20, 2023, 07:05:17 AM »

Not everyone has time to read over 1000 posts.  I think Henry has a legitimate question.

Remember not all users are not on the Spectrum with time all day to read every thread and post. Some have jobs, chores, TV recreation etc. and only are on here for a moment.
It is equally impossible to answer basic questions all the time.
The best option for such long and somewhat messy discussion IMHO is to have a pinned summary if forum engine allows that. It would have to be updated once in a while.
There is an option to have a poll stapled to the top, maybe that is an option?
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machias

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1359 on: February 21, 2023, 09:43:18 PM »

I know this is set in stone but the “BL 81”  designation really bugs the hell out of me. If you don’t want “81”  going through downtown, you don’t get “81” , whether it’s a green Interstate shield or a traditional Interstate marker. It should either go back to US 11 between the I-81/I-481 junctions or it should become two odd numbered 3di routes. The whole “BL 81”  label doesn’t match anything else in New York State and could be misleading for the traveling public who’s going to end up on a boulevard in the middle of the city. This is a whole “have your cake and eat it too”  situation for the viaduct cheerleaders and honestly it’s deceiving.
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1360 on: February 22, 2023, 12:19:52 AM »

I would have rather had two 3dis to retain 90% fed share eligibility...

(personal opinion emphasized)
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froggie

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1361 on: February 22, 2023, 07:42:21 AM »

What was their rationale behind not leaving north of 690 as a 3di?  As I recall, that was the original intention.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1362 on: February 22, 2023, 01:05:05 PM »

The Business 81 designation doesn't bother me (although as an alternative, the section north of Interstate 690 could have been numbered Interstate 181, and the portion south of 690 NY 181). When Interstate 80 was relocated onto Interstate 880's route in Sacramento, the old 80 alignment became Business 80, as did old Interstate 40 in Winston-Salem, as well as old Interstate 85 in both Spartanburg and Greensboro. Of course, I would have preferred that Interstate 81 remain completely freeway on its existing alignment through the Syracuse area, but since that won't happen, the Business 81 seems like the best designation to me (unless someone wanted it to be a lengthy relocation of US 11).
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vdeane

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1363 on: February 22, 2023, 01:06:27 PM »

What was their rationale behind not leaving north of 690 as a 3di?  As I recall, that was the original intention.
The FEIS noted something about it costing more.  Given that FHWA doesn't like partial interchange, I presume that the removal of building the missing ramps between I-81 and I-690 from the community grid proposal is the reason why.  I also wouldn't be surprised if it was hoped that the business loop would help appease DestiNY USA and the hotels in Salina.

(personal opinion)
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abqtraveler

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1364 on: March 06, 2023, 09:47:06 AM »

Just found an article that a New York judge has blocked the removal of I-81 through downtown Syracuse, which is now being appealed by the State of New York and the City of Syracuse.

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2023/03/state-transportation-department-will-appeal-recent-court-ruling-on-i-81.html
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2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1365 on: March 06, 2023, 11:36:04 AM »

Just found an article that a New York judge has blocked the removal of I-81 through downtown Syracuse, which is now being appealed by the State of New York and the City of Syracuse.

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2023/03/state-transportation-department-will-appeal-recent-court-ruling-on-i-81.html
Yeah, the original ruling was strange and this kind of "this part is okay, but this isn't" approach was unexpected.  The precedent that when you're off and running months after ROD and then have to go back to design is a pretty big stretch.  People have been thinking of places like Las Vegas, where change is constant -- nothing would ever get done by this standard.  From what I've heard, people are optimistic about the appeal, but with a ruling like this, who knows what'll happen now if the appeals court follows with this kind of crazy.

(personal opinion emphasized)
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7/8

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1366 on: March 06, 2023, 11:51:31 AM »

I know this is set in stone but the “BL 81”  designation really bugs the hell out of me. If you don’t want “81”  going through downtown, you don’t get “81” , whether it’s a green Interstate shield or a traditional Interstate marker. It should either go back to US 11 between the I-81/I-481 junctions or it should become two odd numbered 3di routes. The whole “BL 81”  label doesn’t match anything else in New York State and could be misleading for the traveling public who’s going to end up on a boulevard in the middle of the city. This is a whole “have your cake and eat it too”  situation for the viaduct cheerleaders and honestly it’s deceiving.

I feel like this makes sense as a business loop. It connects to I-81 on both ends and provides access to businesses (restaurants, gas stations, etc.). Business loops are normally surface streets, so it doesn't seem deceiving to me.

webny99

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1367 on: March 06, 2023, 11:56:30 AM »

I know this is set in stone but the “BL 81”  designation really bugs the hell out of me. If you don’t want “81”  going through downtown, you don’t get “81” , whether it’s a green Interstate shield or a traditional Interstate marker. It should either go back to US 11 between the I-81/I-481 junctions or it should become two odd numbered 3di routes. The whole “BL 81”  label doesn’t match anything else in New York State and could be misleading for the traveling public who’s going to end up on a boulevard in the middle of the city. This is a whole “have your cake and eat it too”  situation for the viaduct cheerleaders and honestly it’s deceiving.

I feel like this makes sense as a business loop. It connects to I-81 on both ends and provides access to businesses (restaurants, gas stations, etc.). Business loops are normally surface streets, so it doesn't seem deceiving to me.

Only a small portion of it would actually be a surface street, though. There will be minimal changes to the 8 mile stretch between downtown Syracuse and the northern I-481 junction, which will still function just as it does now, but with (presumably) a bit less through traffic.
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kalvado

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1368 on: March 06, 2023, 12:10:46 PM »

Just found an article that a New York judge has blocked the removal of I-81 through downtown Syracuse, which is now being appealed by the State of New York and the City of Syracuse.

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2023/03/state-transportation-department-will-appeal-recent-court-ruling-on-i-81.html
Yeah, the original ruling was strange and this kind of "this part is okay, but this isn't" approach was unexpected.  The precedent that when you're off and running months after ROD and then have to go back to design is a pretty big stretch.  People have been thinking of places like Las Vegas, where change is constant -- nothing would ever get done by this standard.  From what I've heard, people are optimistic about the appeal, but with a ruling like this, who knows what'll happen now if the appeals court follows with this kind of crazy.

(personal opinion emphasized)
Cynical, but along the lines "it would collapse first": build up 481 and let elevated part deteriorate. Then close it as unsafe...
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machias

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1369 on: March 06, 2023, 04:31:41 PM »

I know this is set in stone but the “BL 81”  designation really bugs the hell out of me. If you don’t want “81”  going through downtown, you don’t get “81” , whether it’s a green Interstate shield or a traditional Interstate marker. It should either go back to US 11 between the I-81/I-481 junctions or it should become two odd numbered 3di routes. The whole “BL 81”  label doesn’t match anything else in New York State and could be misleading for the traveling public who’s going to end up on a boulevard in the middle of the city. This is a whole “have your cake and eat it too”  situation for the viaduct cheerleaders and honestly it’s deceiving.

I feel like this makes sense as a business loop. It connects to I-81 on both ends and provides access to businesses (restaurants, gas stations, etc.). Business loops are normally surface streets, so it doesn't seem deceiving to me.
Part of the problem is that "business loop" is something totally uncommon for northeast. As far as I can tell, there are none in NY, 2 in PA, one in NH, and maybe 2 in CT. It makes too little sense for most locals.

I'm still of the mindset it should be I-381 and I-581 with no number through downtown, much like I-185 and I-385 in Greenville, S.C. is not called BL 85.
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froggie

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1370 on: March 08, 2023, 08:24:43 AM »

I know this is set in stone but the “BL 81”  designation really bugs the hell out of me. If you don’t want “81”  going through downtown, you don’t get “81” , whether it’s a green Interstate shield or a traditional Interstate marker. It should either go back to US 11 between the I-81/I-481 junctions or it should become two odd numbered 3di routes. The whole “BL 81”  label doesn’t match anything else in New York State and could be misleading for the traveling public who’s going to end up on a boulevard in the middle of the city. This is a whole “have your cake and eat it too”  situation for the viaduct cheerleaders and honestly it’s deceiving.

I feel like this makes sense as a business loop. It connects to I-81 on both ends and provides access to businesses (restaurants, gas stations, etc.). Business loops are normally surface streets, so it doesn't seem deceiving to me.

Only a small portion of it would actually be a surface street, though. There will be minimal changes to the 8 mile stretch between downtown Syracuse ~6 miles between DestinyUSA and the northern I-481 junction, which will still function just as it does now, but with (presumably) a bit less through traffic.

FTFY...the project includes a full rebuild between 690 and the Onondaga Lake Pkwy exit including realigning and relocating several of the ramps along that stretch.

Though you're correct it will still fundamentally function as it currently does.
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1371 on: March 16, 2023, 08:38:22 AM »

A draft of the new exit numbers for I-81 (PA to Canada) seems to be making its way around NYSDOT.  Looks like directional suffixes will be replaced with alphabetical ones, per the MUTCD.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1372 on: March 16, 2023, 01:25:52 PM »

Do you have a link to the future Interstate 81 mileage-based exit numbers?
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Ted$8roadFan

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1374 on: June 04, 2023, 11:33:41 AM »

Was able to access article.  Not paywalled.  Light on engineering specifics and construction updates.  No maps.   Obviously written by someone without an construction/engineering background.   
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