AARoads Forum

I always loved Star Trek and Star Trek TNG.  It was always interesting to watch the original series with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy as well as the six movies with the original cast.  Then also with TNG, it was neat with Picard, Riker, and all the supporting cast characters like Worf, Data, Geordi, Deanna, and Dr. Crusher.  Both had their own identities and even though both were on missions to discover new worlds and new civilizations and boldly go where no one has gone before, they had their own differences.

In the original, most episodes were centered around Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. In the TNG, you had it around everyone pretty much, and many episodes had multiple story lines where in the original there was only one story.  Also in the first series you had a second officer who doubled as the Science Officer, where in the second series you had the second officer only as such and had more authority over the crew.  Remember Will Riker had his own chair along with the Captain's chair whereas Spock had his seat on the side of the bridge manning the science station.  Also you never seen both Picard and Riker be on the same away team like you did Kirk and Spock.  In addition Riker did not show any doubts like Spock did when he was in command.  Spock always had to state his reasoning to the crew, that was always based on logic, while Riker just executed his commands.

I was wondering if there are any other Trekees here, and what shows did you like and what were your favorite episodes?

Mine was The Inner Light on TNG where Picard lived another life on a planet that died centuries ago when its sun went nova.  He was gone for only twenty minutes in real time, but he actually lived over 30 years as Kamin, a resident of that planet, in those twenty minutes and had a family during his tenor as his alter ego.

On the Original it had to be the one where Kirk and Spock went back to the 1930's to fix history as McCoy accidentally created an alternate time line when he went back in time to the same period.  I do not know the name of the episode, but it featured Joan Collins in it where Kirk, falls in love with her, only to have to let her die to allow their own timeline to exist which if she had lived the US would have lost World War II and there would be no space program and eventually no Enterprise for them to be part of.

I wouldn't exactly call myself a "Trekee" but I've seen all the movies, all the original series, and most of The Next Generation over the years.  Personally I kind of enjoy the campy nature of the original series given the era it was broadcasted in....Kirk vs Gorn comes to mind.  I like how far thinking a lot of the ideas that were incorporated even back then, they really had to make up for the lack of CGI with decent stories to paint the images of the future they were going for.

BUT...that said The Next Generation was the best overall series overall.  The cast was pretty close to the original series and was acted infinitely better.  The original cast kind of took a humorous tone in the movies while The Next Generation stayed pretty serious and on note with the TV Series.  I've caught a little bit of the Deep Space 9 and Enterprise.  Neither really had the same "omph" for me as the previous series had.  But by then I was watching a lot of Stargate....

Yes, I am one. My father insists that we are Trekkers, with Trekkies being the people who dress up and go to conventions.

The Inner Light might be my favorite episode from all of the series, even after watching all of the episodes.

Almost everything we use in modern life has some basis in something the person who designed it saw on Star Trek. Digital music, cell phones, bluetooth, the list goes on. Heck, I even saw an article today that said a British scientist has developed synthehol with no negative physical effects (referred to as "alcosynth", likely a reference to Star Trek).

There is only one Star Trek. That's the original series (and the animated one) with Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scott, Uhura, etc. Everything else was some sort of inferior knockoff.

I am a serious Trekker.

I am old enough to have grown up on TOS (The Original Series) so it will always have a special place in my heart. Many of the special effects were then state-of-the-art but now can feel so 'cheeze-y'. I love the orchestral "space opera" music of TOS, too. The episode where McCoy changes history is "City on the Edge of Forever," probably the best TOS episode. I love "Mirror, Mirror", "I, Mudd", "Journey to Babel", "The Trouble With Tribbles" and "The Tholian Web" are also favorites for me.

I love TNG as well, although to me many of the first and second season episodes feel contrived or just rough, it certainly evolved into a show of quality thereafter: "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Remember Me", "Darmok", "Cause and Effect", "Frame of Mind" and "The Inner Light" are some of my favorites.

DS9 (Deep Space Nine) was a bit uneven, but had some outstanding episodes including "Duet" , "The Visitor", "In the Pale Moonlight" and "Far Beyond The Stars"  and, for a comedic turn, "Our Man Bashir" and "Trials and Tribble-ations" are great.

I did not care much for Voyager at first, but it grew on me; I think the later seasons of Voyager produced some quality episodes: "Scorpion," "Scientific Method" and "Year of Hell" among them, as well as the fun "Bride of Chaotica" and "The Haunting of Deck 12."

I tried to like Enterprise, but just never got into it. I felt most of the portrayals of the Vulcans were off; Vulcans are stoic but most of the actors played hostile, and my guess is that they were directed to do so. At any rate, it didn't feel right to me. Also, I thought they tried to ret-con a bit too much. There were a few episodes in the fourth season I liked, tho "In a Mirror Darkly" is all that comes to mind.

What was most different about the TOS, is that there was no prime directive which allowed Kirk to interfere with other cultures.  In fact Kirk made it his business to change other worlds such as to get barbaric societies to become peaceful and also overthrow governments just to make them to be like 20th Century Earth.

Also they were less formal in TOS, as no ranks were referred to except Captain Kirk. Spock was Mr. Spock and Scottie was either that name or Mr. Scott plus Mr. Sulu or Mr. Chekov, but no calling by rank titles except Lt. Ohura other than than the Captain.  Plus Dr. McCoy always called Kirk by his first name whenever he was with him unlike, lets say, Dr Crusher in TNG where she was on a first name basis with Captain Picard, but still while in the field always called him Captain  and only being informal while alone in the same room with him.

I guess you can say the original was much closer to being more family oriented than TGN, as it was business first with Picard's crew and personal issues to the side.  Basically the second show was a modern version of the first, but Deep Space 9 had to be totally different as you can only duplicate once so they made it about life aboard a space station with some encounters in space itself.

Voyager and Enterprise were based on TOS but had an advantage though as STV had a ship that was lost and thrown clear across the galaxy and out of Federation Space encountering distant light years away worlds.  I did not watch it much, but I am guessing that they made it home in later seasons as both Riker and Deanna from TNG made a guest appearance in the final season on one episode.   Enterprise went back in time, and not forward like the others, as this was years before Kirk showing the beginnings of everything.  Heck, transporters were not used as all personnel used shuttle crafts to travel down to planets.  Also it was so far back the Klingons were total enemies and had a bounty out on Captain Archer throughout most of the series as he was sentenced to life in prison, but escaped due to the fact he was innocent in the Klingon Kangaroo Court system.

ST:TNG had an interesting 1st season episode which dead ended in terms of future stories that was titled "Conspiracy".  The next episode was "The Neutral Zone", which set the table for introducing the Borg in season 2 (Q Who?), which I always found to be an interesting juxtaposition of plotlines.  The "Conspiracy" alien life form was scarier than the Borg in my opinion. 

Rick

I watched Voyager when I was young and got hooked. Eventually watched TNG, DS9, the films and Enterprise. I still have yet to really watch TOS, only seen an episode here or there.

I like Star Trek.  I think it got better after the influence of Gene Roddenberry waned.  The original and early TNG had more of a mysterious feel, like it's space horror.  Early TNG even had some poorly lit scenes, making it look like the show is about the fear of the darkness and vastness of space.  I like these episodes as basic monster-of-the-week-style entertainment, but Star Trek really meant something later when it showed a vision.

Later TNG and the following series weren't about mystical powers and monsters, but were about science and technology and space exploration.  Other than Q and the wormhole aliens, there was at least a basic understanding of how the aliens and threats worked, and how we could deal with or defend against them.  I also like that they started using story arcs, because those develop the stories and characters more deeply.  I'd like to have seen the "Conspiracy" plot line worked out, but just like the probe from the alternate-universe life forms in "Schisms," it was left as a lingering threat, to linger but be forgotten.  While "The Inter Light" is probably the best TNG episode, I just don't really like it that much.  This is a time when what I like and what's good don't really match up.  The whole episode is too long and slow.  I know that's the whole point, to convey the amount of time that passed, but I just don't care for it.  My favorite TNG episode is "Masks."  To me, it's like "The Inner Light" in that it tells a deep and meaningful story, but I think it's better told.  IMDB says it's one of the lowest-ranked episodes, so maybe again there's a break between what I like and what's actually good.

DSN (the title does not have a 9 in it - the name of the station, but not the show, is Deep Space 9) is the best series, far and away.  It has the strongest characters and best storyline, with deep and interweaving plots.  I could do with a little less Bajoran spiritualism, but in the context of aliens life forms so, uh, alien, that we don't understand their nature, I think it contributes to the overall story.  I like the darkness of DSN, not the mystical monster type of darkness, but philosophical darkness, caused by the questioning of core beliefs.  Eddington brought this to the fore quite well, with his indictment of the Federation.  That kind of darkness wouldn't play well in any of the other shows, but DSN had a pattern of depressing, disappointing, and otherwise non-uplifting episode endings.  In addition to the grand stories, including the series-long stories of Dukat and the Cardassians, Odo, and the Prophets (which kind of parallel TNG's series-long story of Q's judgement, which is much less developed and was only mentioned once or twice outside of the first and last episodes), I like the depth of meaning in this series and how it leaves you asking questions.  Q, again, paralleled that in TNG in his scene calling the whole premise of space exploration, and Star Trek itself, into question in the final episode.  That's my kinda television!

(semi-off topic rant - Space exploration is something we should do when we're able to, and certainly learning about other life forms is very worthwhile, but that isn't the central tenet of the purpose of life, the way Starfleet personell seem to think it is.  They shouldn't give up the development of culture and the pursuit of grander questions like they seem to have.  They seem to have very little in the way of new art and new philosophy.  They don't even try to make it look like they do.  TNG makes a big point of showing how much they rely on stuff that's old now for culture.  It may even be that too much "paradise" is destructive to the human spirit, which maybe the Ferengi philosophy balances.)

The later shows I would say are good, but probably not as great as TNG and DSN.  I liked both of them, but they didn't have the benefit of deep questions or Picard's wisdom and morality (and even Q's wisdom).  They're good as basic science fiction, but I don't think they're truly special like the two that were before them.

I watched the original series of Star Trek while it was being re-runned on BBC. Personally I prefer it to The Next Generation, although my class mates wouldn't like it because they believe that special effects are more important than actual content.

"DS9" is by far the more widely used abbreviation for Deep Space Nine. 

I do.

Quote from: US 81 on October 01, 2016, 08:01:58 PM
"DS9" is by far the more widely used abbreviation for Deep Snore Nine.

FTFY

I am a big Trekker.  TNG is the series I followed most -- my wife gave me the complete series DVD set for Christmas one year.  Like others here, "The Inner Light" is my favorite episode, but I also count "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Parallels", "Time's Arrow" (both parts) and "A Fistful of Datas" to be very good as well.  I also liked the movies "Generations" and "Insurrection" featuring the TNG crew.

My father watched the original series.  I was all of 4 when it went off the original run, but I saw them plenty of times in syndication.  I don't have any particular favorites, but I was very happy to see BBC put the originals back on.

I started with DS9, but just could not get into it.  Same with Voyager and Enterprise.  The newer movies are OK.

Quote from: wxfree on October 01, 2016, 05:19:28 PM
I like Star Trek.  I think it got better after the influence of Gene Roddenberry waned.  The original and early TNG had more of a mysterious feel, like it's space horror.  Early TNG even had some poorly lit scenes, making it look like the show is about the fear of the darkness and vastness of space.  I like these episodes as basic monster-of-the-week-style entertainment, but Star Trek really meant something later when it showed a vision.

Later TNG and the following series weren't about mystical powers and monsters, but were about science and technology and space exploration.  Other than Q and the wormhole aliens, there was at least a basic understanding of how the aliens and threats worked, and how we could deal with or defend against them.  I also like that they started using story arcs, because those develop the stories and characters more deeply.  I'd like to have seen the "Conspiracy" plot line worked out, but just like the probe from the alternate-universe life forms in "Schisms," it was left as a lingering threat, to linger but be forgotten.  While "The Inter Light" is probably the best TNG episode, I just don't really like it that much.  This is a time when what I like and what's good don't really match up.  The whole episode is too long and slow.  I know that's the whole point, to convey the amount of time that passed, but I just don't care for it.  My favorite TNG episode is "Masks."  To me, it's like "The Inner Light" in that it tells a deep and meaningful story, but I think it's better told.  IMDB says it's one of the lowest-ranked episodes, so maybe again there's a break between what I like and what's actually good.

DSN (the title does not have a 9 in it - the name of the station, but not the show, is Deep Space 9) is the best series, far and away.  It has the strongest characters and best storyline, with deep and interweaving plots.  I could do with a little less Bajoran spiritualism, but in the context of aliens life forms so, uh, alien, that we don't understand their nature, I think it contributes to the overall story.  I like the darkness of DSN, not the mystical monster type of darkness, but philosophical darkness, caused by the questioning of core beliefs.  Eddington brought this to the fore quite well, with his indictment of the Federation.  That kind of darkness wouldn't play well in any of the other shows, but DSN had a pattern of depressing, disappointing, and otherwise non-uplifting episode endings.  In addition to the grand stories, including the series-long stories of Dukat and the Cardassians, Odo, and the Prophets (which kind of parallel TNG's series-long story of Q's judgement, which is much less developed and was only mentioned once or twice outside of the first and last episodes), I like the depth of meaning in this series and how it leaves you asking questions.  Q, again, paralleled that in TNG in his scene calling the whole premise of space exploration, and Star Trek itself, into question in the final episode.  That's my kinda television!

(semi-off topic rant - Space exploration is something we should do when we're able to, and certainly learning about other life forms is very worthwhile, but that isn't the central tenet of the purpose of life, the way Starfleet personell seem to think it is.  They shouldn't give up the development of culture and the pursuit of grander questions like they seem to have.  They seem to have very little in the way of new art and new philosophy.  They don't even try to make it look like they do.  TNG makes a big point of showing how much they rely on stuff that's old now for culture.  It may even be that too much "paradise" is destructive to the human spirit, which maybe the Ferengi philosophy balances.)

The later shows I would say are good, but probably not as great as TNG and DSN.  I liked both of them, but they didn't have the benefit of deep questions or Picard's wisdom and morality (and even Q's wisdom).  They're good as basic science fiction, but I don't think they're truly special like the two that were before them.

On the culture note, it's hard to grow a culture that's original and compelling, it's much easier and relatable to stick to what's known. One of the things that hooked me on the 2009 reboot is that they used the Beastie Boys 'Sabotage', easily one of my favourite songs.

XT1585

^^^

I've actually found that to be a good thing about the rebooted movie series.  They have a half century more of culture to work with to expand the Universe than the original series did when it first came out.  The same scene in the 2009 even had a C2 Corvette which definitely was not a classic when the original series was first on the air.

Quote from: cl94 on October 01, 2016, 09:29:32 PM

Quote from: US 81 on October 01, 2016, 08:01:58 PM
"DS9" is by far the more widely used abbreviation for Deep Snore Nine.

FTFY

Really?  What is this, jr high?

I watched TOS as a teen, in reruns after school.  I certainly enjoyed it then.  I recently got the disc set and have been rewatching.  Some episodes I still like, but an awful lot makes me cringe.

Now my favorite of the series is DS9.  In TOS and TNG, every episode is a reboot and that makes it hard to take the series seriously.  It's more like a video game, where if you don't like what happened you put in another quarter, or else warp away to another star system.  I like that DS9 has ambiguous characters, even the villains have a little good in them and even the good guys do bad things sometimes.  The serial nature makes it harder for new viewers to get into it; the episodes pretty much need to be watched in order, and that limits its appeal in syndication.  But it pays off in a more interesting show, in my opinion.

Voyager seems like it should have been better than it was.  The characters seemed pretty bland.  There should have been ongoing tension between the Maquis and Starfleet crews.  Some should have wanted to stay at a pleasant planet and colonize rather than continue the enormously risky and long attempt to get home.  Too many unmotivated aliens, or evil special effect of the week.  I pretty much stopped watching after season 4.

Quote from: wxfree on October 01, 2016, 05:19:28 PMI think it got better after the influence of Gene Roddenberry waned.

Yes, he's deeply in favour of Spock - someone trying to deny their humanity and become a totally logical machine processing empirical data. Roddenberry's utopian vision is that we have dehumanised ourselves and character development is thus to become more boring. Now sure, there's lots of tension and cool stuff like that as they try and get there (internally in Spock, as well as externally between Bones+Spock and Kirk), but...

Later, Data, once Roddenberry's influence went, is doing that journey in reverse.

QuoteDSN (the title does not have a 9 in it - the name of the station, but not the show, is Deep Space 9) is the best series, far and away.  It has the strongest characters and best storyline, with deep and interweaving plots.

And would have Roddenberry spinning in his grave as it was everything he was against. Hence why I want to watch it!

QuoteI could do with a little less Bajoran spiritualism

Possibly an overreaction to the Roddenberry influence, which saw that sort of thing as primitive and to be eradicated.

QuoteThey seem to have very little in the way of new art and new philosophy.

That's as Roddenberry's utopia is very very narrow-minded. Philosophy is meaningless in his philosophy (as it's not empirical). Art is almost dangerous in his artistic creation (as it is emotional).

Quote from: noelbotevera on October 01, 2016, 05:20:04 PMI watched the original series of Star Trek while it was being re-runned on BBC.

When was that? Oh, you mean BBC America, which is UKTV over here in Blighty!

One thing I must admit about the movies though is that Nemesis is a copy of The Wrath of Khan as Data did the same thing as Spock did, by also sacrificing himself to save the ship from danger.

The only thing that sucked in Nemesis other than killing off a main character again, was the clone of Picard looked nothing like him.  When I first encountered the movie I thought the guy was gay and had a bad infatuation with Picard before I realized he was a clone made from bad materials or bad genes.  The fact was they should have had Patrick Stewart play a dual role as clones are supposed to look like their original.   

By trying to say that a good experiment gone bad created in a clone that looks nothing like the person its to be a copy of, does not wash to well.

Quote from: roadman65 on October 02, 2016, 01:06:55 PM
One thing I must admit about the movies though is that Nemesis is a copy of The Wrath of Khan as Data did the same thing as Spock did, by also sacrificing himself to save the ship from danger.

The only thing that sucked in Nemesis other than killing off a main character again, was the clone of Picard looked nothing like him.  When I first encountered the movie I thought the guy was gay and had a bad infatuation with Picard before I realized he was a clone made from bad materials or bad genes.  The fact was they should have had Patrick Stewart play a dual role as clones are supposed to look like their original.   

By trying to say that a good experiment gone bad created in a clone that looks nothing like the person its to be a copy of, does not wash to well.

But wasn't Tom Hardy's character Shinzon supposed to be younger version of Picard in Nemesis that had accelerated aging?  Wasn't the whole premise was that he wanted some of Picard's blood to stop the aging if I remember correctly?  I seem to remember they had some actor that looked nothing like Picard at all play the young version of the character in some Q episode where the present changed.

Episode referenced in previous post is Tapestry.

I grew up seeing bits of TNG which my dad watched, often while my mom cut his hair, but I didn't really consider myself a fan until about season 3 or 4 of Voyager. New episodes came on after Seven Days (my favorite show at the time) on UPN, plus my local UPN/WB affiliate aired Voyager reruns just before prime time five days a week, so it was hard to miss.

Since then I think I've seen about half of TOS and everything from The Motion Picture onwards. I can nitpick a lot of it, but I pretty much like it all.

In TOS I find the technobabble doesn't hold up well with my hobbyist level of physics understanding, but the characters are memorable.

TNG got off to a soft start but got really good quickly. There's a reason the phrase "Riker's beard" is the opposite of "jump the shark."

DS9 definitely has a darker flavor, but it grew on me in daily reruns on Spike TV.

Voyager started feeling like a bland copy of TNG, and the Kazon were basically Delta Quadrant Klingons, but by the third season the writers had a good sense of the characters and started producing really good stories.

Enterprise could have been better, but I enjoyed it anyway. Wish it would have stuck with a more classical theme song.

The reboot movies are fun, though I wouldn't compare the first two favorably with the classic films. Into Darkness is a worse and more blatant copy of Wrath Of Khan than Nemesis was. But Beyond impressed me; they finally found their grove with that one, and the nods to classic Trek films don't seem forced like they did in the first two reboot films.

I got into the franchise watching TNG reruns in the Enterprise era.  By the time the Abrams movies started coming out I was well caught up with all the series.

Any thoughts about next year's new series, Star Trek: Discovery?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Discovery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Discovery)

I'm going to watch it because I am willing to try anything with 'Trek in it.  (Hell, I even watched that crowdfunded movie, Star Trek Renegades.)
Trek is made for episodic television.  Movies are nice, but Paramount doesn't make those for the nerds, they make those for the general public so corners are always cut and canon is always obliterated.

I'll watch the pilot of Discovery on free TV, but it seems very unlikely I'll subscribe to a whole new paid TV platform for one show. I already have cable.

If it's on Netflix or Hulu, I might watch at a friend's house.

Count me among those (probably very few) who wasn't crazy about the movies with the original cast. The idea to give Klingons knotted heads was goofy, since they didn't have them in the original series.

And the recast original series? No, just no. There is no Kirk but Shatner, and Nimoy is his first officer.

Back in grade school / early high school, Star Trek was my shit.
TNG started when I was in 3rd grade (I think), so that's what I was "raised" on - and was able to catch TOS episodes sometimes when aired as well.
For the record, I am in the camp that considers DS9 to be the best of the franchise (followed closely by TNG, then TOS).
I tried to get into Voyager the first couple of seasons, but I sort of phased out watching it, probably around the time I got my drivers license (though around then I started watching a whole lot less TV in general).  "Enterprise" was on a cable channel during a time I did not have cable.  It was available on Netflix for a while, and I thought about watching it, but it just never happened.
As for the movies, namely the reboots - I actually enjoyed the 2009 first reboot.  I thought they did well with the "new" cast, and it was entertaining enough.  I thought "Into Darkness" was mostly awful, and haven't seen "Beyond" yet.

I was a little young to really appreciate the TOS when it aired.  But quickly grew to love it as I got older and after school re-runs played them all over and over. I found a seventh grade teacher who fostered that love as well. So by the time the movies started coming out I was able to drive and at that point anything new labeled Star Trek would have been great.  But my criticisms of the first movie grew as much better product was created later.  Star Trek 2 had every thing and as I sat teary eyed at the end thinking Spock was gone.  I thought it would never be the same.  Yet somehow, they managed to pull a plausible idea out of their hat and, all was as it was before.  Like most, I enjoyed the even numbered moves generally more than the odd ones.  ST5 I never really understood and was the first time noticed the acting wasn't as good. I do still chuckle at roasting Marshmelons!

While I did like TNG at first, I didn't love it and saw them pulling ideas from TOS when they could have done more. Thought McCoy's cameo in the 1st episode was awesome.  Hated the Ferengi as characters.  They weren't threatening and weren't funny. But season 2 and then season 3 changed all and was completely hooked by the time Best of Both Worlds played. The love lasted through the end and and into the TNG movies as well.

DS9 was a disappointment for me when it aired because we were in the Chicago area at that time and WGN aired it, as long as there were no Local sports teams playing in its time slot, which was almost never.  DVR's weren't out yet and I always had to try and figure out when they were going to run it and missed probably 80% of them.  But thanks to Netflix, have now seen them all and believe it stands up with TNG, so as to which is my favorite would be a tossup. Agree with many of the posts, could have done without the Bajoran spiritualism.

Had a similar situation With Voyager and Enterprise.  We chose not to get Satellite as we lived in the country outside Chicago and Channel 2, the local CBS affiliate, put out about as much power as your average Walkie Talkie.  I was able to pick up all the other channels just fine. So am going through Voyager now on Netflix.  While I am enjoying them, (currently starting season 6), it is probably my least favorite of the series.  But we will see.  Don't tell me how they get home!

While I couldn't watch Enterprise as it aired, I eventually found a way to download seasons 1 and 2 which I enjoyed.  Yes the Vulcans were a bit harsh, but there was no Prime directive and humans were pushing against Vulcan control.  But yet, Archer had a sense of the Prime Directive even as Humans were finding their way.  Found season 4 cheap on Blu-Ray and watched Season 3 on Netflix.  I didn't care for the Xindi Arch and hated how they turned the last episode into a TNG episode and only made it an hour.  But I loved Through the Mirror Darkly.  I thought Empress Sato was great! Would like to have seen another episode on that.  The theme and opening credits for those 2 episodes was awesome.

Have enjoyed all 3 new films and thought the New Universe Idea was handled pretty well though the concept of a ship that powerful falling into Miners hands was a bit far fetched. Khan, should have looked like Khan in Into Darkness and while the reversal of how Spock and Kirk did the same things as the other in The Wrath of Khan was interesting, would have liked it to maybe be  a bit more original.  Did enjoy the new movie as I thought they were finally heading out on their own.  However #4 will be sad with out Chekov because of Anton's tragedy.

So bottom line, there were hits and misses in them all, TNG and DS9 are my favorites, but I am proud to call myself a trekker!

The Star Trek: Countdown comic tie-in to the 2009 movie (it's written by the same people who wrote the movie, as well as the Star Trek: Nero comic covering the intermediate years from Nero's perspective) expands on Spock's story and has the Narada getting upgraded before going back by the Tal Shiar with Borg technology.

I thought the 2009 movie was an interesting watch and had potential, though it was more fast-paced and actiony than I would have preferred.  Into Darkness I think could have been better without Khan; IMO the plot about Admiral Marcus was the stronger plotline, and shoehorning in Khan felt forced.  I've also noticed that both movies have a pointless action sequence at the end involving the Enterprise losing power and falling into an object's gravity.  Also, I found it interesting that someone earlier compared the levels of professionalism between TOS and TNG; it's even lower for the new movies, which look like you took a bunch of frat boys and stuck them on a spaceship (oh wait).  Can't comment on Beyond since I haven't seen it yet.

My favorites are currently TNG and Voyager.  I like how DS9 was serialized and allowed us to get to know one area and watch history unfold; IMO Voyager could have been better if they had gone serialized.  I think that was actually the plan, originally, and then the executives insisted on making it more like TNG.

Have enjoyed the entire group of series since about 1970.  I have a fondness for the original series, but I like Deep Space Nine the best due to the very ingenious characterizations used in the show.  I also liked the most recent movie (ST: Beyond).  I felt of the new crew, it felt most like the old time Star Trek.  Just wish it would have been a major hit at the box office.

FYI-If you ever watch over the air digital TV (or if you are fortunate enough to have this channel on your cable), a network called H & I (Heroes and Icons) is rerunning every single series (including the animated) on Sunday through Friday evenings.  It's worth a look, and it sure does help keep the late night work from getting boring.

This might sound archaic; but one still can get seasons of each show on DVDs (I have all TOS on such).  That way, one can watch them at their own convenience and see them uncut.  Syndicated reruns of shows, especially older shows; usually have pieces of them cut out due to accommodate commercial times.

Apparently, at least for this run, H & I is running the original Star Trek without cuts.  I did time one of them, and although I screwed up my timing, I know that they ran over 48 minutes of program.  The syndicated cuts have it down to 42-44 minutes, and I think the original was up around 50.

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2016, 08:55:08 AM
This might sound archaic; but one still can get seasons of each show on DVDs (I have all TOS on such).  That way, one can watch them at their own convenience and see them uncut. 

Get the remastered Blu-Rays if your TV is big.

I have watched the shows, but do not go all crazy like these convention goers or people that know insane trivia or write their own "non-canon" stories.

IMHO,

TOS was quite good, although not enough attention was paid to keeping the back story consistant from week to week.  Some of its best shows were among the best sci-fi ever, but some of the 3rd season ones were mistakes. 

The under noted amimated series was also very good, but suffered because they had to tow the fine line on violent themes and sex because of network rules about cartoons.

The Next Generation was, at its best, better than the original.  Unfortunatly its best was not nearly most of the time.  It would take off three or four episodes per year to preach Hollyweird's far-left idiocy; and it would just recycle the same plots after a while.  The re-boot of the Klingons from odd-colored but otherwise human-looking people who conducted themselves like the commies in TOS to the lizzard looking warrior-society with all of this complex ethos, trying to mimic Islam was a mistake.  Just make up some other alien. 

Voyager was not bad, although unrealistic even by sci-fi standards.  If you are suddenly 75 years from home, you find an empty planet and start making babies.

Deep Space Nine was the darkest of the shows.  The analogy between Israel and Palestine and/or commies and those recently freed from it was sometimes over-played.  It is never explained (in this or any other show) why a society that just "replicates" everything needs to trade. 

Enterprise was a good concept, but poorly executed.  The 3rd and 4th season which just made a too obvious parallel to 9-11 and preached about it was poor.

The TOS movies were so so.  1 sucked, 2, 3 and 4 were quite good, 5 and 6 were preach fests.  The TNG movies had two very good ones (the first two) and two preach-fests. 

The "reboot" is idiocy. 

Not a huge fan; don't hate it either, except...

I'm finally getting around to seeing the movies with the TNG cast (First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis; already saw Generations).  There's only one word to describe fans of these movies, and that's "apologists" ("Oh, First Contact isn't that bad," they say).  They're really mediocre and quite narrow in their scope:  They seem tailored for fans of the TV series rather than a broader audience like all the other Star Trek films.

Saw a bunch of TNG, one or two of DS9 and a few of Voyager.  Caught a few scenes of Enterprise.  *shrug*

Seems to me that Voyager became all about watching Jeri Ryan fit into her costume as well. :D

I suppose I should say I like the movies in the reboot, although I haven't seen Beyond yet.  I'll get around to it, but reviews make me a little reluctant.

Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2016, 12:16:42 PM
Seems to me that Voyager became all about watching Jeri Ryan fit into her costume as well. :D

I suppose I should say I like the movies in the reboot, although I haven't seen Beyond yet.  I'll get around to it, but reviews make me a little reluctant.

Completely agree about Voyager, although the stuff before Seven of Nine showed up was pretty good. Love the theory it proposed about various historical disappearances.

I saw Beyond the weekend it came out and thought it was pretty good. Mixed the good parts about the original cast movies and the reboots.

While I'm not really a fan of it; TNG was the first sci-fi series based in the US* to run beyond 3 seasons.  Prior to then; sci-fi TV shows, including TOS, would last only 2 to 3 seasons.

*British series Dr. Who being the lone exception at the time.

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2016, 01:37:00 PM
While I'm not really a fan of it; TNG was the first sci-fi series to run beyond 3 seasons.  Prior to then; sci-fi TV shows, including TOS, would last only 2 to 3 seasons.

Baloney.  By the time TNG was around, Doctor Who had 23 seasons under its belt!

Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2016, 01:56:00 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2016, 01:37:00 PM
While I'm not really a fan of it; TNG was the first sci-fi series to run beyond 3 seasons.  Prior to then; sci-fi TV shows, including TOS, would last only 2 to 3 seasons.

Baloney.  By the time TNG was around, Doctor Who had 23 seasons under its belt!

Doctor Who is the exception. It is also one of the longest-running BBC shows. What's crazy is that, even now, it is still a great show.

Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2016, 01:56:00 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2016, 01:37:00 PMWhile I'm not really a fan of it; TNG was the first sci-fi series based in the US* to run beyond 3 seasons.  Prior to then; sci-fi TV shows, including TOS, would last only 2 to 3 seasons.

*British series Dr. Who being the lone exception at the time.

Baloney.  By the time TNG was around, Doctor Who had 23 seasons under its belt!

Previous post corrected per above.  Truth be told, I never heard of the Dr. Who series until very recently.

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2016, 01:37:00 PM
While I'm not really a fan of it; TNG was the first sci-fi series based in the US* to run beyond 3 seasons.  Prior to then; sci-fi TV shows, including TOS, would last only 2 to 3 seasons.

*British series Dr. Who being the lone exception at the time.

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2016, 02:02:57 PM

Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2016, 01:56:00 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2016, 01:37:00 PMWhile I'm not really a fan of it; TNG was the first sci-fi series based in the US* to run beyond 3 seasons.  Prior to then; sci-fi TV shows, including TOS, would last only 2 to 3 seasons.

*British series Dr. Who being the lone exception at the time.

Baloney.  By the time TNG was around, Doctor Who had 23 seasons under its belt!

Previous post corrected per above.  Truth be told, I never heard of the Dr. Who series until very recently.

Captain Video and His Video Rangers ran for five or six seasons in the '40s, albeit targeting kids only.

Quote from: cl94 on October 04, 2016, 01:58:54 PM

Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2016, 01:56:00 PM

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2016, 01:37:00 PM
While I'm not really a fan of it; TNG was the first sci-fi series to run beyond 3 seasons.  Prior to then; sci-fi TV shows, including TOS, would last only 2 to 3 seasons.

Baloney.  By the time TNG was around, Doctor Who had 23 seasons under its belt!

Doctor Who is the exception. It is also one of the longest-running BBC shows. What's crazy is that, even now, it is still a great show.

Yeah, it's an exception, but broad statements are easy targets. :D

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 04, 2016, 01:37:00 PM
While I'm not really a fan of it; TNG was the first sci-fi series based in the US* to run beyond 3 seasons.  Prior to then; sci-fi TV shows, including TOS, would last only 2 to 3 seasons.

*British series Dr. Who being the lone exception at the time.

Perhaps also say "non-anthology." Twilight Zone = 5 seasons.

But none of us here on this forum nitpick. ;-)

Quote from: SP Cook on October 04, 2016, 12:04:07 PM
I have watched the shows, but do not go all crazy like these convention goers or people that know insane trivia or write their own "non-canon" stories.

IMHO,

TOS was quite good, although not enough attention was paid to keeping the back story consistant from week to week.  Some of its best shows were among the best sci-fi ever, but some of the 3rd season ones were mistakes. 

Yes, though as I rewatch them in the last couple of months after not seeing them for probably 30 years, I've finding a lot more that makes me cringe as I watch it, even in an episode that's relatively good.  For instance, I just rewatched "The Enterprise Incident," in which the Enterprise under secret orders, enters Romulan space and snatches away their improved cloaking device.  It was good because the Romulan captain had excellent stage presence, and excellent chemistry with Spock.  But the parts that made me cringe:  Starfleet is supposed to be the good guys, but they made an unprovoked invasion into Romulan space, lied about it being a navigational error, Spock deceived the Romulan captain about possibly defecting the the Romulans and possible romantic interest in the captain, they stole Romulan property when there was peace (however uneasy) between the Federation and the Romulans, the Romulan captain was easily deceived making it hard to believe she could have risen to command a group of ships, lax security aboard the Romulan ship.

That's one of the better episodes, I could easily have picked one whose only redeeming feature was a clever line or two.

Quote
The under noted amimated series was also very good, but suffered because they had to tow the fine line on violent themes and sex because of network rules about cartoons.

I see other problems with the animated series.  The half hour format didn't allow them to go into any depth at all, considering they still had the "alien of the week" format.  It's hard enough to present a little bit of an alien culture in a 50 minute episode, let alone a 25 minute one.  Also, I am okay with less sex and violence, but the children in the audience also limited the complexity of the characters that could be presented.  Antagonists who also had good sides, protagonists who also had flaws, etc., are a lot harder for kids to understand.

Quote
The Next Generation was, at its best, better than the original.  Unfortunatly its best was not nearly most of the time.  It would take off three or four episodes per year to preach Hollyweird's far-left idiocy; and it would just recycle the same plots after a while.  The re-boot of the Klingons from odd-colored but otherwise human-looking people who conducted themselves like the commies in TOS to the lizzard looking warrior-society with all of this complex ethos, trying to mimic Islam was a mistake.  Just make up some other alien. 

I like what they did with the Klingons.  The blackface makeup of TOS wasn't that great, and the uniforms looked cheap.  I like how they fleshed out the warrior culture, which doesn't make me think of Islam at all.

Quote
Voyager was not bad, although unrealistic even by sci-fi standards.  If you are suddenly 75 years from home, you find an empty planet and start making babies.

Deep Space Nine was the darkest of the shows.  The analogy between Israel and Palestine and/or commies and those recently freed from it was sometimes over-played.  It is never explained (in this or any other show) why a society that just "replicates" everything needs to trade. 

It was an occupation.  It could be Palestine/Israel, or Poland/Nazi Germany, or India/Britain, or Algeria/France, etc.

They did say in a few places that replicators had their limits.  Some things can't be replicated, like latinum.  Replication is an energy intensive process so replicating your starship wouldn't be practical.

Quote
Enterprise was a good concept, but poorly executed.  The 3rd and 4th season which just made a too obvious parallel to 9-11 and preached about it was poor.

The TOS movies were so so.  1 sucked, 2, 3 and 4 were quite good, 5 and 6 were preach fests.  The TNG movies had two very good ones (the first two) and two preach-fests. 

The "reboot" is idiocy. 

The movies are at a disadvantage.  They have to attract a much bigger market share than TV, so they have to aimed at an audience that hasn't watched Star Trek much.  So they spend screen time that's tedious to the fans explaining what they already know, or even worse, like the reboot, calling movies Star Trek that are actually some parallel universe almost entirely UNlike Star Trek.

Quote from: cl94 on October 04, 2016, 01:16:24 PM
Completely agree about Voyager, although the stuff before Seven of Nine showed up was pretty good. Love the theory it proposed about various historical disappearances.

Are you referring to the S2 episode "The 37s", or a broader theme that I missed?

Quote from: hbelkins on October 03, 2016, 12:18:38 PM
Count me among those (probably very few) who wasn't crazy about the movies with the original cast. The idea to give Klingons knotted heads was goofy, since they didn't have them in the original series.

And the recast original series? No, just no. There is no Kirk but Shatner, and Nimoy is his first officer.

"...and Scotty beamed them onto the Klingon ship, where they would be no tribble at all."

"All power to the engines!"

[from the church of Trek]

Quote from: vtk on October 05, 2016, 01:34:25 PM

Quote from: cl94 on October 04, 2016, 01:16:24 PM
Completely agree about Voyager, although the stuff before Seven of Nine showed up was pretty good. Love the theory it proposed about various historical disappearances.

Are you referring to the S2 episode "The 37s", or a broader theme that I missed?

Yes, I am. Didn't feel like looking it up on Memory Alpha when I made the post.

One of my favorite TNG episodes was "The Devil's Due" where the Enterprise crew exposes a scam that plays on some planet's own mythology about a deal with the devil.  A great story about skeptical inquiry preventing one from being exploited.

I like baseball and there was a lot good references throughout DS9, but "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" was a lot of fun.  Although every reference to the "London Kings" made my skin crawl just a little. :-D

Quote from: roadman65 on September 30, 2016, 10:58:05 PM
I always loved Star Trek and Star Trek TNG.  It was always interesting to watch the original series with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy as well as the six movies with the original cast.  Then also with TNG, it was neat with Picard, Riker, and all the supporting cast characters like Worf, Data, Geordi, Deanna, and Dr. Crusher.  Both had their own identities and even though both were on missions to discover new worlds and new civilizations and boldly go where no one has gone before, they had their own differences.

In the original, most episodes were centered around Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. In the TNG, you had it around everyone pretty much, and many episodes had multiple story lines where in the original there was only one story.  Also in the first series you had a second officer who doubled as the Science Officer, where in the second series you had the second officer only as such and had more authority over the crew.  Remember Will Riker had his own chair along with the Captain's chair whereas Spock had his seat on the side of the bridge manning the science station.  Also you never seen both Picard and Riker be on the same away team like you did Kirk and Spock.  In addition Riker did not show any doubts like Spock did when he was in command.  Spock always had to state his reasoning to the crew, that was always based on logic, while Riker just executed his commands.

I was wondering if there are any other Trekees here, and what shows did you like and what were your favorite episodes?

Mine was The Inner Light on TNG where Picard lived another life on a planet that died centuries ago when its sun went nova.  He was gone for only twenty minutes in real time, but he actually lived over 30 years as Kamin, a resident of that planet, in those twenty minutes and had a family during his tenor as his alter ego.

On the Original it had to be the one where Kirk and Spock went back to the 1930's to fix history as McCoy accidentally created an alternate time line when he went back in time to the same period.  I do not know the name of the episode, but it featured Joan Collins in it where Kirk, falls in love with her, only to have to let her die to allow their own timeline to exist which if she had lived the US would have lost World War II and there would be no space program and eventually no Enterprise for them to be part of.

I will try to keep this as short as possible.

There are many things I like about Star Trek and there are many things that I do not like about Star Trek.

Star Trek had always been on The Drawing Board since the early 1960s, around the time of "Space Angel".
In 1964, it was filmed in Live Action Colour which is impressive for 1964, when Colour was expensive and optional. The pilot episode was perhaps one of the best episodes. At a little over an hour long, I like to consider it a movie. Too bad there aren't that many end credits to it. Even though it is 1964, the sets looked extremely futuristic. I really love those sets. The automatic doors are supposed to be Brushed Metal. with the Blu Ray release, it seems they are painted wood, but still look very futuristic. You get to see the ceilings of The Star Ship Enterprise. And that is some type of round dark blue ceiling. It is very impressive. The Uniforms are a more neutral colour, with dark grey coats that resemble Star Trek: Deep Space 9's uniforms, even though this was 1964!! I also like the transparent electronic devices. And they have Gooseneck Viewescreens. Some of the sound effects (such as the Whistling sensor alert) are annoying, but there is little to complain about. No Main Engineering in this episode. I assume the large man in the transporter room (two were operating the transporter) one could have been Chief Engineer. While there was no bickering between Spock & McCoy, there was bickering between Number One and Yeoman Colt. (Also, Spock is in this episode. He is in every episode.) Even though from what I remember, the character was created for Gene's mistress, but she is still a very tallented actress and that is my favourite of her four characters. I also found the plot to be very interesting.

Another, Where No Man Has Gone Before, has a very interesting plot. A man and woman are struck and now have beautiful silver eyes. They also have a very confident personality, and think themselves inferior to The Enterprise. The second pilot, has already changed some of the set designs to obvious Hippie Colours, making the sets now appear very low quality. But also they still have the Round Ceilings, and the transparent devices, and a few Gooseneck Viewscreens. The uniforms are still a neutral colour. Also, this is the first on screen bridge appearance of a Black Man, who later starred in Room 221. This person was replaced in the next episode by Nichelle Nichols.

The rest of the episodes have walls that become more purple with each new episode. But one of my favourites are The Squire Of Gothos, with Trelane, William Campbell, and this plot seems to be reused in TNG episode Hide And Q.

Another episode I like, is "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" Dr. Miranda Jones, (Diana Muldaur, who also played numerous characters, all of them Doctors) has a disability and she does not want anybody to know about it because they will give her pity when she does not want the extra attention and fake emotional reaction. Episodes such as these are absolutely beautiful. (I also like the story arc of Magda The Gypsy from Dark Shadows, about the character in distress that she helps. ... And The Rookies Episode "A Farewell Tree From Marly", Miss Honey and Matilda Wormwood, InuYasha and Jinenji from episode "Jinenji, Kind Yet Sad", and a few episodes where Hetty Wainthropp stands up for disabled people.)

But to wrap up TOS, I used to not like it until they made the remastered episodes. Unfortunately they did not do very much Colour Correction. The walls are still purple.

As for Star Trek: The Animated Series,

was created around similar Science Fiction "Gatchaman". Compare the two. While Gatchaman, produced in Japan had a Star Trek level of violence, Animation aired in USA 1970s was "meant for small children" and also unfortunately Star Trek TAS did not have many episodes. Some scenes are beautifully animated, while others are extremely cheap. Some people also don't like TAS, but the technology and planet surfaces improved.

Star Trek: TMP
is one of the best movies, but the plot is extremely slow. It takes them half the movie to depart for the mission. But what I like about TMP is a return to Brushed Metal, neutral colour, futuristic look. They also used jackets for Away Teams. The Enterprise goes into warp for the very first time, with streaks of lights surrounding The Enterprise. This is the only time they used this effect and it is very sad that it disappeared entirely from TNG onwards.

The Other Star Trek TOS Films:
It is too bad that there weren't more of them. It would be nice if they had STILL decided to make Phase II along with the films. I can't help but wonder.

TNG:

My favourite character is Worf Son Of Mogh. He is an Orphan, and discovers that his father is an accused traitor. His father is dead, and Worf has to be punished for crimes that neither he nor his father committed. Also, Worf has some of the best lines such as "Good Tea. Nice House." or smashing the lute.

It was a very nice programme, but was getting worse and worse each season. If you are able to understand my very long sentences, you can guess I like the lighting styles of the early episodes. The walls were brushed metal with the exception of The Main Bridge cherry wood computer chip panels. (I also like Cherry Wood.) The lighting was much more of a Natural Light and looked very futuristic. After "The Ensigns Of Command", the lighting became brighter and brighter. By the time "Tin Man" was made, it looks horribly bright. TNG's music originally matched TOS, but this infuriated Rick Berman. As his power increased, he became involved with creating a repetitive music. Few episodes after season 4 had acceptable music. There are a few exceptions such as "Face Of The Enemy" and "The Pegasus" and "Frame Of Mind" and "Masks" and "Aquiel" and of course any of the spooky episodes.

Some thing I do not like is the casting changes.

TNG had too many people for one position and none for the other. When they tried to fill the positions, none of the characters remained.

Chief Engineer was a recurring position that they should have hired somebody to be part of the main cast. As a result, Picard always said "Engineering?! Why don't you answer?!" The first Chief was acceptable, plus the high ranking Leland T. Lynch. The worst one of all is Logan, who only existed to annoy Geordi and did absolutely nothing with Engineering despite calling himself Chief Engineer. The remaining one is Argyle, who speaks with a Scottish or Canadian accent and has a beard and just resembles some person from some very cold forest in Canada or Alaska. He appeared in two episodes, mentioned in another, and sounds similar to the guy answering the intercom in "Hide And Q". I would like to have seen things work out with the cast, but there were many casting problems that resulted in Tasha Yar (Denise Crosby) and Beverly (Cheryl Gates McFadden) leaving. I read (an essay by Wil Wheaton) that Biff Yeager jeopardized the chances of being hired permanently by (allegedly) responding to the saying "Your character will become permanent if there is overwhelming fan mail supporting him." by writing fan mail to himself and launching an unauthorized survey of which chief engineer should be part of the cast.

Worf and Deanna were absent in several episodes of Season 1.

There appeared to be two security officers. The Chief Of Security, and Worf assisting her. Worf also appeared to be one of the three Navigators. Geordi and Wesley were the other two.

When Geordi became The Go-To Chief Engineer (with MacDougal, Argyle, and Lynch as auxillary staff according to the Remastered episode of Galaxy's Child), Wesley took over but left in the middle of Season 4. There was a revolving door of navigators. They probably wanted to hire Rosalind Chao or Michelle Forbes, but neither character appeared in that many episodes. (And Rosalind's character was not even in Star Fleet.) Other navigators are Allenby, Anaya, Reager, and Gates. Gates appeared in the most episodes, with the least words.

Guinan: Should have been in many more episodes.

Selar: Played by Suzie Plakson (one of many characters), having auxillary Doctors on board was something from TOS. Obviously a tallented actress and should have appeared in more episodes.

Despite all these casting problems, Colm Meaney was in two episodes, appeared in following seasons, and is on the main cast of DS9.

Now that I have finished with casting criticisms, I am going to talk about Character Criticisms:

Wesley: You have to read between the lines to understand why Wesley is there. He is basically the godson of Captain Picard. This seems to be very similar to a TOS episode about Kirk and the son of Kirk's now deceased captain. Since Picard ordered Wesley's father to his death, Wesley looks up to Picard, whether he likes it or not. Eventually he lets Wesley save the ship, while other times Wesley's experiments put the ship in danger. In Journey's End, Wesley interferes with the mission. Even though I am considering Wesley to be the godson of Picard, I still think Wesley is somewhat annoying.

Pulaski: I understand that Muldaur is a tallented actress and that Pulaski played an important character development for Data, but I don't like perms and her Old Country Doctor style is best for Leonard H. Bones McCoy Son Of David. I understand that Data's rights and freedoms were hinted at in in episodes "The Battle", "Datalore", and "Skin Of Evil" but sometimes I think she was over-acting. On the other hand, she was excellent at Klingon culture which is impressive. Also, I consider her to be the long lost grandmother or long lost aunt of Tasha Yar.

Geordi: Became somewhat nosey digging through logs of women that he eventually dated (or almost dated). His VISOR was made from painted Banana Clips, which gave Levar headaches. I am very surprised that Star Trek didn't envision (pun not intended) Google Glasses. They envisioned diskettes and Memory Stick Pro, but why not Google Glasses?! At the same time (1987), BraveStarr characters used Google Glasses, including one that was blind.


DS9:

I like seeing O'Brien and Worf return.

I also like The Ferengi.

I like Jake Sisko.

And Bashir.

Those are my favourites. The other characters I like equally.

The one I like the least is "Old Man" Dax, and I somewhat dislike Sisko for this reason.

As for the lighting, It seems to be not as bright as Tin Man, but not as sleek as early episodes of TNG, etc.

The music is usually Just There. Some soundtracks are nicer than others.

The plot became extremely dark towards the end of the programme. I did not like that.

Voyager:

I cannot help but wonder what Genevieve Bujold's Nicole Janeway would have been like, if she had only remembered her lines. Her acting for Voyager became more Spock Like while Mulgrew's acting at times very much resembled Jim Kirk, even having the same sly smile. I do not hate Mulgrew's Janeway but there are times that I think her character should have been as tough as Ro Laren, Kira Nerys, B'Ellanna Torres, etc. even though you can still tell that she was doing her best to remain calm in a difficult position. I also thought that Katheryn Janeway was created specifically for KATE Mulgrew, as many TV Programmes are. (Mary Richards character being named after Mary Tyler Moore, etc.) As for the actress Kate Mulgrew, I noticed some behind the scenes footage of Mulgrew rolling her eyes at the new woman Jeri Ryan. I guess Mulgrew felt rejected if others thought that her lead character was not sufficient. And In-Universe, Seven being Borg, possesses knowledge of being a Star Fleet Captain that if they let her have a Star Fleet Commission just by taking the final exams, she would pass easily. I like that they added In-Universe bickering based on the behind the scenes bickering. You can see this in the Season 4 episodes.

Also, I think that both the actress and character Seven are one of my favourites.

As for the character Ryan / Seven inadvertently replaced, the actress was fine but the character was not. A short-lived alien species that would have aged considerably by the end of the series, I actually agree that this character should have been replaced, or not written as such.

I also like Tim Russ and Tuvok. While he is not Spock, I enjoyed Tuvok's moments of insanity. My least favourite episode about Tuvok is Tuvix.

The Doctor (Both Robert Picardo and Andy Dick).

My two least favourites are:

Chakotay. Especially when he was at odds with Tuvok. Especially his chanting about being away from the bones of his ancestors.

My absolute least favourite character is Tom Paris, and perhaps Robert Duncan MacNeill. When the ship is low on resources, and no mention of The Aeroshuttle, it is much better for Tom to have his own personal AND CUSTOM vehicle. The original Delta Flyer has customized controls. The new Delta Flyer has even more customized controls and redesigned furniture. He also uses their limited energy to build an old television set, and many other things. Janeway should not have given him so much freedom. But perhaps it is just 1990s television where such characters get the most lines.

As for lighting. It is acceptable, but still no Star Trek of the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. The music improves significantly during some episodes, but others are horrible.


TNG Films:

They kill Kirk, destroy The Enterprise D, and make Data hysterical.

And in the next one they rip half Data's face off.

The third one they continue to torture Data.

The fourth one, they kill him.

Enterprise:

I haven't watched it yet.

Revivals:

I think that Kelvin Star Trek is very silly. And disappointing. I want to know what happened to Number One?! I assume that she left The Enterprise before Jim Kirk took command and transferred to the cybernetics division of Star Fleet, where she provided the voice for many computers.


Star Trek Discovery:

I am disappointed that they have a limited amount of episodes, and I am hoping that they return to the lighting cinematography style of the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. I also hope that the suspenseful music returns instead of the boring 1990s music.


Unofficial Revivals:

Star Trek Phase II New Voyages: Some of these movies are terrible, while others are perfect. The acting is comparable to TOS, and so is the lighting and music. I also enjoy seeing the TMP Warp Drive effect again.


I think that wraps it up. With moderators participating in the discussion instead of just Moderating at TrekBBS (Saying "My opinion is right. Now I will lock the discussion."), and with Memory Alpha being a part of Wikia which changed its name to Fandom, I really don't read about nor talk about Star Trek that much.

Yeah...I might be dressed in a TOS engineer uniform today. Professors love it and the department chair wanted a picture with me.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the internet-only series Star Trek Continues.  It's essentially what a possible 4th Season TOS would look like.  Scotty is played by Chris Doohan; James Doohan's son.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G-ziTBAkbQ

Not to mention that the screen shot you have there also has the original actor who played Apollo in the original series in the 1960s, inserting him into the same role.  ST Continues and it's related series also included some of the original writers, and had episodes with George Takei and Walter Koenig.  Some of the acting was cheesy by some of the neophytes, but the episodes were well written, and sets and effects were well done, especially when you compare the budget (almost nothing) to current day television budgets, even for cheap cable channels.

Quote from: Life in Paradise on November 01, 2016, 08:30:11 AM
Not to mention that the screen shot you have there also has the original actor who played Apollo in the original series in the 1960s

That would be Michael Forrest.

Quote from: PHLBOS on October 31, 2016, 04:57:48 PM
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the internet-only series Star Trek Continues.  It's essentially what a possible 4th Season TOS would look like.  Scotty is played by Chris Doohan; James Doohan's son.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G-ziTBAkbQ

Never heard of it.

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 01, 2016, 09:03:52 AM

Quote from: Life in Paradise on November 01, 2016, 08:30:11 AM
Not to mention that the screen shot you have there also has the original actor who played Apollo in the original series in the 1960s

That would be Michael Forrest.

He should have moved on to playing Zeus by now.  He's a bit elderly for Apollo.

Star Trek Continues is a made-on-a-tight-budget series by fans who clearly love the show. It is very much in the spirit of TOS. Lots of true-to-the-Star-Trek-universe touches. Some of the acting can be a little hammy (in the spirit of Wm Shatner) Good replicas of costumes from TOS, scored with actual music from TOS. Most episodes have an appearance from an actor who appeared in one of the ST series.

Probably not of interest to anyone except a Trekker, but very fun if you are one....

We know this technology as impulse engines. Cross another item off the "Star Trek inventions scientists haven't figured out" list.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/emdrive-leaked-nasa-paper-reveals-star-trek-microwave-thruster-does-work-1590244?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rss&utm_content=/rss/yahoous/news&yptr=yahoo

Quote from: nexus73 on October 01, 2016, 11:09:10 AM
ST:TNG had an interesting 1st season episode which dead ended in terms of future stories that was titled "Conspiracy".  The next episode was "The Neutral Zone", which set the table for introducing the Borg in season 2 (Q Who?), which I always found to be an interesting juxtaposition of plotlines.  The "Conspiracy" alien life form was scarier than the Borg in my opinion. 

Rick

I think the original plan was for the Conspiracy creatures and the Borg to be the same entity, but due to creative problems with the insectoid species that the Conspiracy aliens were to be they were scrapped and the Borg were created. Unfortunately it left that abandoned cliffhanger at the end of Conspiracy where the mother alien living inside Dexter Remmick had sent a homing beacon back to their species. This was never mentioned again in TNG or its movies.

Quote from: cl94 on November 07, 2016, 02:27:47 PM
We know this technology as impulse engines. Cross another item off the "Star Trek inventions scientists haven't figured out" list.

I will wait until there's a trial before I cross it off my "haven't figured out" list, not a press release.

Nice to see this thread mentioned so it seems a good time to resurrect it!

Would a Mirror Universe series do well?  My guess is that it would draw initially high interest, after which storyline development would determine the success or failure.

How about a Star Trek set in the 30th century?  That would really open the doors for new tech and styles at least.  What would the 30th century look like?  Then comes the fun of piecing together a 30th century timeline.  Did the Federation go intergalactic and wind up facing the Andromedans?  Were more Doomsday Machines found?  What are the values of the societies portrayed in such a series like?

Rick

Mirror Universe - Like all such devices, it is good for a episode, but will not work for a series.  Also, if you buy into the concept, then everyone there is evil and dark.  Who wants to see that?

As to the new shows, Picard is a pointless preachfest where faded ST actors do a cameo.  Unwatchable.  Then there is Discovery.  Among the worst things ever filmed.  An idiotic plot, unrealistic time travel scenario, changing canon about one of the two main OS characters, constant preaching. 

Quote from: SP Cook on May 02, 2021, 11:35:51 AM
Mirror Universe - Like all such devices, it is good for a episode, but will not work for a series.  Also, if you buy into the concept, then everyone there is evil and dark.  Who wants to see that?

As to the new shows, Picard is a pointless preachfest where faded ST actors do a cameo.  Unwatchable.  Then there is Discovery.  Among the worst things ever filmed.  An idiotic plot, unrealistic time travel scenario, changing canon about one of the two main OS characters, constant preaching. 

The reality TV show "Survivor" does well despite it being about humans solely acting based on selfish self interest.  I prefer teamwork but others take a different path, so I would expect a Mirror Universe series to collect its share of fans.  The spectrum of morality is rather broad.

Rick

I feel like the Mirror Universe is controversial in the fandom, at least beyond Mirror, Mirror.  Some people love it, others don't and think it's just an excuse for the actors to have fun hamming it up and playing evil people.

The first couple of Mirror Universe episodes in DS9 were good, but they went too often to the same well.

Glad to see this thread resurrected as well!

I agree that DS9 had some good Mirror Universe episodes, but I'm not sure good enough to support an entire spinoff.  If there was to be a DS9 spinoff, I think the founding and growth of The Dominion in its early days could be really interesting.

As a fan geek, Mirror Universe episodes are fun, but it does bring on the question....if they keep killing each other all of the time way before they do in the regular universe, wouldn't that change people over time?  Meaning due to this murder or that murder, some people are never born in the future...on and on and on..  You can do too many of those shows.

I have enjoyed parts of Discovery (to some its STD heh, heh), but other parts don't fit for me.  I do think that they improved when they moved it 900 years in the future (32nd century).

I really like Disco's credits sequence and some things about it... but so many of the characters don't get backstory.  Michael, sure, and the captains.  A bit about Saru, eventually.  But most of the rest we only get a couple of sentences at most.  I guess I'm just spoiled by DS9, where people have parents, kids, careers previous to their current post, and their lines reflect that.  Disco (and I don't think it's just Disco) has the pace and character development of a video game.

I've always felt like Deep Space Nine was very underrated.  I liked that it showed a grittier side of the Federation, not the utopia we'd seen depicted in the previous two series.  I also appreciated that each episode wasn't "new week, new adventure" but you had stories, like the Dominion War, that spanned seasons. 

There's quite a few Trekkers I've talked to that didn't like DS9 but loved Voyager.  I liked Voyager, but I don't get why DS9 was never looked at as favorably. I think it was better than Voyager.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 03, 2021, 03:17:57 PM
I liked Voyager, but I don't get why DS9 was never looked at as favorably. I think it was better than Voyager.

I'm in the same boat.  In my opinion, of everything thru Voyager (haven't really seen any series after), I'd rank DS9 as the best, with TNG a close second.  A major reason, among others, being it ended up with I think the best roster of well-developed (over the course of the series) recurring (some very often) characters.

Just my opinion, of course.

The thing about DS9 is that it was doing an ongoing, serialized story way before that was the norm on TV. At the time it was this strange new thing a lot of people couldn't get into. Now, because of things like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones, a TV show doing an ongoing rather than episodic story is an idea viewers are more comfortable with, so DS9 shines more than it did at the time it came out.

...But on the other hand. Before we watched DS9, I made sure to warn my wife that some people didn't like it because it was more serialized and thus to keep an open mind and think of it like Game of Thrones or whatever. Her verdict? DS9 was too episodic for her liking, because she knew there was an overarching plot going on and she wanted it to be developed more rather than the bouts of seeing what the Ferengi were up to or time traveling back to the 21st century or whatever other diversions it made along the way. Also, with all that fluff going on, it bothered her how long it took for the Dominion War arc to really kick in–she felt like DS9 has a really good plot, but it's a shame it took so many years for it to get started! Basically, she didn't mind the episodicness of TNG or Voyager and she likes serialized stories like GoT, but in her opinion DS9 just didn't commit to serialization as much as she would have liked.

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 03, 2021, 03:45:11 PM
The thing about DS9 is that it was doing an ongoing, serialized story way before that was the norm on TV. At the time it was this strange new thing a lot of people couldn't get into. Now, because of things like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones, a TV show doing an ongoing rather than episodic story is an idea viewers are more comfortable with, so DS9 shines more than it did at the time it came out.

...But on the other hand. Before we watched DS9, I made sure to warn my wife that some people didn't like it because it was more serialized and thus to keep an open mind and think of it like Game of Thrones or whatever. Her verdict? DS9 was too episodic for her liking, because she knew there was an overarching plot going on and she wanted it to be developed more rather than the bouts of seeing what the Ferengi were up to or time traveling back to the 21st century or whatever other diversions it made along the way. Also, with all that fluff going on, it bothered her how long it took for the Dominion War arc to really kick in–she felt like DS9 has a really good plot, but it's a shame it took so many years for it to get started! Basically, she didn't mind the episodicness of TNG or Voyager and she likes serialized stories like GoT, but in her opinion DS9 just didn't commit to serialization as much as she would have liked.

That's a fair criticism regarding the Dominion War.  They were introduced in season 2, but the war didn't really start until the end of the 5th season?  Yes, a lot of buildup. 

I kind of appreciated the episodes in between the war story arc.  A reprieve from an otherwise very serious toned series.

I do not care for the Mirror Universe episodes. The first episode "Mirror, Mirror" is good enough, but the Deep Space Nine episodes should not have been made. Too many characters were killed. It is more fun to have the villains alive. ... How ever, the Ferengi have been killed off in The Mirror Universe, and it seems The Romulans have been killed off also. These are not weak villains either; I am disappointed how the Ferengi are depicted in Mirror Universe episodes.

That, and numerous Holodeck episodes are examples of being too episodic.

Nothing wrong with Serialized episodes, but things need to happen much faster than in modern Star Trek programmes. ... which I can comment about shortly. Serialized episodes have occurred as early as the first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation or even earlier than that ... beginning with Data, and then Worf.

And also I am disappointed what be came of those two popular characters. as well as The Borg.

My dad loves Star Trek.

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 07, 2016, 04:12:56 PM

Quote from: nexus73 on October 01, 2016, 11:09:10 AM
ST:TNG had an interesting 1st season episode which dead ended in terms of future stories that was titled "Conspiracy".  The next episode was "The Neutral Zone", which set the table for introducing the Borg in season 2 (Q Who?), which I always found to be an interesting juxtaposition of plotlines.  The "Conspiracy" alien life form was scarier than the Borg in my opinion. 

Rick

I think the original plan was for the Conspiracy creatures and the Borg to be the same entity, but due to creative problems with the insectoid species that the Conspiracy aliens were to be they were scrapped and the Borg were created. Unfortunately it left that abandoned cliffhanger at the end of Conspiracy where the mother alien living inside Dexter Remmick had sent a homing beacon back to their species. This was never mentioned again in TNG or its movies.

It was mentioned very quickly and then more or less swept under the rug again. They were introduced in Conspiracy by Dennis McCarthy ( It does not sound as a usual Dennis McCarthy episode. ) and then again in The Drumhead by Ron Jones. She blamed Picard for not investigating the matter further. And that was the last mentioning of it.

I am not sure how many creative differences there were, but the episode all most did not get made. Gene Roddenberry insisted that it get made and kept rewriting it to be more drastic, even comically drastic, which occurred many times in the 1960s episodes. ... and a Machine Planet story occurred for episode The Changling and again for The Motion Picture.

When they made a story again with The Borg this time, it was mentioned in The Neutral Zone by Ron Jones, and officially introduced in Season 2 where they went over the budget during a season with the smallest budget.

The Borg returned again the next year.

Perhaps another reason why The Insect Creatures did not return in Star Trek is be cause a different programme Dark Skies with Jeri Ryan is also about parasitic creatures. 

Here is a rant about two things I do not like about Star Trek:

The Cinematography ... such as the lighting and set designs.

In The Cage Pilot Movie in 1964, they had a very futuristic look despite being the oldest production ... it looked much better than much of the other episodes. They kept the colour scheme muted. The doors were grey not red, and they used beautiful rounded stained glass dark blue ceilings that were eventually discarded. Instead, they used a bunch of Easter Egg Lighting which looks silly.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture returned to the 1964 lighting as well as the use of landing party jackets.

Edward R. Brown used a similar style which generally was not carried over to his successors.

It is better to have low key lighting even if it means you might have a light shining in your face.

Also interesting is that Edward R. Brown and several of the production staff previously worked on Scarecrow And Mrs. King.

...

The other is the music. Good music is hard to find but the best music seems to be from:

Sol Kaplan, George Duning, Gerald Fried, George Romanis, Ron Jones, Don Davis, John Debney, Richard Bellis, Paul Baillargeon, and Gregory Smith. Other musicians are Dennis McCarthy and Jay Chattaway... And perhaps Star Trek: Armada One by Danny Pelfry and Danny Baker. More of this music must be added to Star Trek Online also.

Musicians not from Star Trek also:

a few are on Space Age Pop, many from that time period... such as: Paul Horn, Henry Mancini, Edward Bilous, Jeff Alexander, Don Barto, Patrick Williams, Jack Elliott, Allyn Ferguson, Eugene Poddany, Walter Greene, Bill Lava, Doug Goodwin, Rob Walsh, Don McGinnis, Joe Siracusa, Carlos Brandt, Dean Elliott, Elliott Lawrence, Ed Bogas, Hoyt Curtain, Bob Sakuma, Masahito Maruyama, Yuji Ohno, Maury Laws, Bernard Hoffer, Jerry Martin, Famous Classic Tales, Pinocchio In Outer Space, Halloween Is Grinch Night, Judge Mathis, Soul Train, and numerous Game Show musicians. Also perhaps some of the King Of The Hill musicians such as John Frizzell and John O'Connor. And also Lance Rubin and Roger Neill.

Star Trek has been about at least occasionally mystical music for example from George Duning. The first six movies also, with Leonard Rosenman particularly is another of many examples. And then for The Next Generation they hired a secondary musician Ron Jones. Rick Berman hated the music and eventually fired him and killed the sound track for Star Trek and others. The spiritual successor of Ron Jones is Paul Baillargeon, who worked for Rick Berman on The Big Blue Marble. This is the only reason why Rick Berman ever hired Paul, as well as Don Davis, John Debney, and Gregory Smith.

Rick Berman is very tone deaf; he seems to prefer the music of David Bell, and Velton Ray Bunch. The regular musicians Dennis McCarthy and Jay Chattaway can compose music of various qualities, but seem to prefer to make different melodies, instead of being forced to use Wall Paper.

Paul Baillargeon was probably hired to make six episodes per year, three for Deep Space Nine, and three for Voyager. But Paul Baillargeon only made at most 5 episodes each year... and that is how Gregory Smith made three episodes for Deep Space Nine, one each year. These episodes sound the same as Paul Baillargeon.

If this sounds confusing, watch and listen to the episodes Rocks And Shoals by David Bell and The Assignment by Gregory Smith. Both have a lady falling. One episode the lady ritually hangs her self. The other one possessed all most dies. The music should sound the same dramatic and suspenseful, but the resulting music one sounds terrible. The other one does not.

I do not know why Greogry Smith stopped after those three episodes; Perhaps after 1999, there was only one programme made instead of two. When they make multiple long 26+ episode each programmes again (after a 20 year gap?!) It is going to exhaust Jeff Russo and Michael Giacchino. And it is unacceptable to have them recycle the same few tracks.

I was hoping that Enterprise lasted for 7 seasons, and if they focused on Space Battles instead of Trip and Porthos, it would have. And then I would be able to enjoy even more episodes of Paul Baillargeon.

Even if Paul Baillargeon will not come out of retirement, John Debney and Gregory Smith are still active. Gregory Smith even has a web site.

They are making this programme Strange New Worlds which is finally about Captain Pike. I hope they are able to use the grey walls and dark blue stained glass ceilings that made the 1964 film so futuristic. Hopefully they can recreate the magic that the original actors did ... Every time (even in Fan Recreations such as Phase II New Voyages and Continues) the next actor to be Kirk ends up much more like Archer instead. Perhaps they will also remember that they had mystical music such as from George Duning and also from The Paradise Syndrome by Gerald Fried.

Ron Jones would frequently recreate this type of music.

And also Paul Bailargeon, who continued the tradition of mystical music. An example of the mystical, psyachedellic, perhaps somber at times, music by Paul Baillargeon is from episode Blink Of An Eye. Another good example is Chosen Realm.

I do not know why these musicians have not returned to Star Trek, but Gregory Smith has a web site. He might be convinced to return the moment that the Star Trek producers are able to hire numerous musicians and give them their own episodes. Currently, at least with Star Trek: Picard, they recycle the music much more than the 1960s episodes ever did.

As a result, I type the name of the episode's musician when ever I mention the title of an episode.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 03, 2021, 06:29:56 PM
My dad loves Star Trek.

My sister is an addict from the first show to the present.

I'm more partial to DS9 and Voyager, though Voyager was hit and miss at times.

Quote from: In_Correct on May 03, 2021, 06:15:41 PM
I do not care for the Mirror Universe episodes. The first episode "Mirror, Mirror" is good enough, but the Deep Space Nine episodes should not have been made. Too many characters were killed. It is more fun to have the villains alive. ... How ever, the Ferengi have been killed off in The Mirror Universe, and it seems The Romulans have been killed off also. These are not weak villains either; I am disappointed how the Ferengi are depicted in Mirror Universe episodes.

That, and numerous Holodeck episodes are examples of being too episodic.

Nothing wrong with Serialized episodes, but things need to happen much faster than in modern Star Trek programmes. ... which I can comment about shortly. Serialized episodes have occurred as early as the first season of Star Trek: The Next Generation or even earlier than that ... beginning with Data, and then Worf.

And also I am disappointed what be came of those two popular characters. as well as The Borg.

Worf's fate at the end of DS9 was nothing to be ashamed of.

I thought Discovery season 2 was mixed. I enjoyed the relationship between Spock and Burnham even with the retcon, but I thought the "evil rogue sentient AI"  was a tired plot device that brought nothing new to that overused concept. Because of the mention upthread about how little development the secondary characters get in the show, it was immediately obvious when they suddenly thrust one to the foreground as a main character that they were planning to kill her off and thus failed to create any emotional attachment to her as they progressed through the episode.

This is a good thread bump since a lot has happened since Disco started up.

Disco's use of the mirror universe (or the "Evil Parallel Universe" as I call it thanks to South Park ;) ) has provided a crutch to kill off prime universe characters while leaving the window open to bring them back at some point.  But I must admit to being excited about taking a several-episode arc thru there.  I like it for the reason they pointed out in Disco; the mirror universe is the other possible future for humanity if we allow our more primitive instincts to guide our development as a species.

Jumping Disco 900 years forward was a decent creative choice and I liked the concept of a galaxy of fallen empires in the wake of The Burn, but I was left with the impression the writers underestimated how much they should have advanced the 23rd-24th Century tech their audience is familiar with.  Think back to what human technology was like 900 years ago from right now.  Seems like there should have been several fundamental developments in that time on the order of gunpowder or heliocentrism, right?  Instead all we got were slightly upgraded versions of the same tech we are used to. Holograms, transporters, weapons, user interfaces, ship designs; it all feels like maybe 100-200 years beyond the Next Generation series.  They would have been better served leaping forward half as far and ignoring the Enterprise canon about a Temporal Cold War.

I recognize the writing 'get out of jail free' card they made with the "Infosphere Data".  That's what I call that huge archive they took on from the mysterious ancient alien probe in season 2 in homage to Futurama.  (It's true; stamp glue is made from toad mucus!)  They are going to cheat their way out of dead-ends with that Infosphere Data for the rest of the run.

On to Picard; I'll admit, most of the appeal of that series so far as been "Hey remember this character!?!"  Seven of Nine especially killed it; she was kick-ass.  I do have to roll my eyes at the central plot of season 1 being a predictable false flag operation about artificial intelligence.  But I'm left wanting to know more about these super-old AI lifeforms that were about to fuck shit up.  That seems interesting enough to explore without gumming up the Prime Universe with excessive canon if you have Picard and Seven and the others jet off on some rouge diplomatic mission to investigate.   The consummate diplomat with his no-nonsense half-cyborg compatriot figure out how to get a supreme AI to calm the fuck down about organic life; there's at least a season there.

There's also Lower Decks.
This is a goofy, "PG13" animated show focusing on characters who are not bridge officers.  Clearly, someone at Paramount watched the first season of The Orville and noticed "Hey, Star Trek totally works as a comedy.  Let's do this, but cheaper."

As an aside, The Orville, in my opinion, has a tone that makes it a more direct descendant of the three Next Generation series than any of the new official series.  Several of their episodes would be immortal classics if they were on TNG.  Particularly the one where they encounter a generation ship where the people living on it don't know they are on a space ship and the one where they visit a planet where the people persecute those born under a certain astrological sign.  Those two would have made excellent TNG episodes. I guess any series, really, but you can just feel that they were written with Picard and Riker and Data and Troi and so on in mind.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 04, 2021, 09:55:08 PM
This is a good thread bump since a lot has happened since Disco started up.

Disco's use of the mirror universe (or the "Evil Parallel Universe" as I call it thanks to South Park ;) ) has provided a crutch to kill off prime universe characters while leaving the window open to bring them back at some point.  But I must admit to being excited about taking a several-episode arc thru there.  I like it for the reason they pointed out in Disco; the mirror universe is the other possible future for humanity if we allow our more primitive instincts to guide our development as a species.

Jumping Disco 900 years forward was a decent creative choice and I liked the concept of a galaxy of fallen empires in the wake of The Burn, but I was left with the impression the writers underestimated how much they should have advanced the 23rd-24th Century tech their audience is familiar with.  Think back to what human technology was like 900 years ago from right now.  Seems like there should have been several fundamental developments in that time on the order of gunpowder or heliocentrism, right?  Instead all we got were slightly upgraded versions of the same tech we are used to. Holograms, transporters, weapons, user interfaces, ship designs; it all feels like maybe 100-200 years beyond the Next Generation series.  They would have been better served leaping forward half as far and ignoring the Enterprise canon about a Temporal Cold War.

I recognize the writing 'get out of jail free' card they made with the "Infosphere Data".  That's what I call that huge archive they took on from the mysterious ancient alien probe in season 2 in homage to Futurama.  (It's true; stamp glue is made from toad mucus!)  They are going to cheat their way out of dead-ends with that Infosphere Data for the rest of the run.

On to Picard; I'll admit, most of the appeal of that series so far as been "Hey remember this character!?!"  Seven of Nine especially killed it; she was kick-ass.  I do have to roll my eyes at the central plot of season 1 being a predictable false flag operation about artificial intelligence.  But I'm left wanting to know more about these super-old AI lifeforms that were about to fuck shit up.  That seems interesting enough to explore without gumming up the Prime Universe with excessive canon if you have Picard and Seven and the others jet off on some rouge diplomatic mission to investigate.   The consummate diplomat with his no-nonsense half-cyborg compatriot figure out how to get a supreme AI to calm the fuck down about organic life; there's at least a season there.

There's also Lower Decks.
This is a goofy, "PG13" animated show focusing on characters who are not bridge officers.  Clearly, someone at Paramount watched the first season of The Orville and noticed "Hey, Star Trek totally works as a comedy.  Let's do this, but cheaper."

As an aside, The Orville, in my opinion, has a tone that makes it a more direct descendant of the three Next Generation series than any of the new official series.  Several of their episodes would be immortal classics if they were on TNG.  Particularly the one where they encounter a generation ship where the people living on it don't know they are on a space ship and the one where they visit a planet where the people persecute those born under a certain astrological sign.  Those two would have made excellent TNG episodes. I guess any series, really, but you can just feel that they were written with Picard and Riker and Data and Troi and so on in mind.

Lower Decks was also a season 7 episode of TNG, and a rather good one to boot.

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 03, 2021, 03:45:11 PM
The thing about DS9 is that it was doing an ongoing, serialized story way before that was the norm on TV. At the time it was this strange new thing a lot of people couldn't get into. Now, because of things like Breaking Bad and Game of Thrones, a TV show doing an ongoing rather than episodic story is an idea viewers are more comfortable with, so DS9 shines more than it did at the time it came out.

..............but in her opinion DS9 just didn't commit to serialization as much as she would have liked.

I will note that a lot of the more heavily serialized shows mentioned (among others) also have much fewer episodes per season (really, shorter seasons is a pretty common thing now for even non-serialized shows).
But DS9 was still expected to produce ~25 episodes per season (I think season one was just a little shorter), so there were a lot more hours to fill.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 04, 2021, 09:55:08 PM

Jumping Disco 900 years forward was a decent creative choice and I liked the concept of a galaxy of fallen empires in the wake of The Burn, but I was left with the impression the writers underestimated how much they should have advanced the 23rd-24th Century tech their audience is familiar with.  Think back to what human technology was like 900 years ago from right now.  Seems like there should have been several fundamental developments in that time on the order of gunpowder or heliocentrism, right?  Instead all we got were slightly upgraded versions of the same tech we are used to. Holograms, transporters, weapons, user interfaces, ship designs; it all feels like maybe 100-200 years beyond the Next Generation series. 

Excellent points.  I find the whole jump to the future theme unrealistic, even by science fiction standards.  It seems lifted from the Kevin Costner bomb "The Postman".  So people jump 900 years into the future.  So they expect Star Fleet and all of these natural law/19th century liberal values to still exist.   And they do.  Right.  So a time traveling sailor from the 13th century would just naturally expect to sail into his country's harbor and find everyone is pretty much the same. 

Star Trek is generally supposed to be a hopeful vision for humanity where we figured out how to balance our innate empathy with cold hard empirical science.  But they are annoyingly persistent at legitimizing whatever trendy pseudo-science was permeating Hollywood culture at the time each series was on.

It started right in the beginning with telepathy and Vulcans mind-melding with other species.  Completely rooted in 1960's esoteric ideas about consciousness and that kind of hippie bullshit.  Jump ahead to Next Generation and you can tell how much Hollywood had embraced therapists with the inclusion of not only a ship's counselor, but making that a bridge officer.  Worf does his Klingon yoga; Tuvoc does his Vulcan meditation; all right around the same time those became trendy in Hollywood.  The most egregious example though is Enterprise's Dr. Flox.  Jumping on the alternative medicine bandwagon, they have their future doctor using all sorts of new-agey 'natural' sounding modalities in a blatant endorsement of every Hollywood douchebag's kook witch doctor.

Those elements do not age well, I must say.  In an franchise with numerous technological cheats like faster than light travel and matter transporters, adding even more implausible elements like telepathy, aliens with god-like powers, and space leeches that even out your space humors makes it harder to immerse oneself in the fiction.

Star Trek is a product of its time just like any other form of literature.

If someone had written a story in Chaucer's time including travel in heavier-than-air machines from just about any place on earth to just about any other place on earth, usually within 24 hours, he probably would have been locked up in his relatives' attic as a danger to himself.  And then there's radio.  And an entire population of many large countries where too much food is a bigger health problem than too little.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 21, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Star Trek is generally supposed to be a hopeful vision for humanity where we figured out how to balance our innate empathy with cold hard empirical science.  But they are annoyingly persistent at legitimizing whatever trendy pseudo-science was permeating Hollywood culture at the time each series was on.

It started right in the beginning with telepathy and Vulcans mind-melding with other species.  Completely rooted in 1960's esoteric ideas about consciousness and that kind of hippie bullshit.  Jump ahead to Next Generation and you can tell how much Hollywood had embraced therapists with the inclusion of not only a ship's counselor, but making that a bridge officer.  Worf does his Klingon yoga; Tuvoc does his Vulcan meditation; all right around the same time those became trendy in Hollywood.  The most egregious example though is Enterprise's Dr. Flox.  Jumping on the alternative medicine bandwagon, they have their future doctor using all sorts of new-agey 'natural' sounding modalities in a blatant endorsement of every Hollywood douchebag's kook witch doctor.

Those elements do not age well, I must say.  In an franchise with numerous technological cheats like faster than light travel and matter transporters, adding even more implausible elements like telepathy, aliens with god-like powers, and space leeches that even out your space humors makes it harder to immerse oneself in the fiction.

This was a good rant to start my day off with.  Someone angry at the legitimizing of therapists through fiction is a new one.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 21, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Star Trek is generally supposed to be a hopeful vision for humanity where we figured out how to balance our innate empathy with cold hard empirical science.  But they are annoyingly persistent at legitimizing whatever trendy pseudo-science was permeating Hollywood culture at the time each series was on.

It started right in the beginning with telepathy and Vulcans mind-melding with other species.  Completely rooted in 1960's esoteric ideas about consciousness and that kind of hippie bullshit.  Jump ahead to Next Generation and you can tell how much Hollywood had embraced therapists with the inclusion of not only a ship's counselor, but making that a bridge officer.  Worf does his Klingon yoga; Tuvoc does his Vulcan meditation; all right around the same time those became trendy in Hollywood.  The most egregious example though is Enterprise's Dr. Flox.  Jumping on the alternative medicine bandwagon, they have their future doctor using all sorts of new-agey 'natural' sounding modalities in a blatant endorsement of every Hollywood douchebag's kook witch doctor.

Those elements do not age well, I must say.  In an franchise with numerous technological cheats like faster than light travel and matter transporters, adding even more implausible elements like telepathy, aliens with god-like powers, and space leeches that even out your space humors makes it harder to immerse oneself in the fiction.

Quote from: kkt on May 21, 2021, 01:19:07 AM
Star Trek is a product of its time just like any other form of literature.

Exactly.  It's almost as if the arts are influenced by culture or something.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 21, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Star Trek is generally supposed to be a hopeful vision for humanity where we figured out how to balance our innate empathy with cold hard empirical science.  But they are annoyingly persistent at legitimizing whatever trendy pseudo-science was permeating Hollywood culture at the time each series was on.

It started right in the beginning with telepathy and Vulcans mind-melding with other species.  Completely rooted in 1960's esoteric ideas about consciousness and that kind of hippie bullshit.  Jump ahead to Next Generation and you can tell how much Hollywood had embraced therapists with the inclusion of not only a ship's counselor, but making that a bridge officer.  Worf does his Klingon yoga; Tuvoc does his Vulcan meditation; all right around the same time those became trendy in Hollywood.  The most egregious example though is Enterprise's Dr. Flox.  Jumping on the alternative medicine bandwagon, they have their future doctor using all sorts of new-agey 'natural' sounding modalities in a blatant endorsement of every Hollywood douchebag's kook witch doctor.

Those elements do not age well, I must say.  In an franchise with numerous technological cheats like faster than light travel and matter transporters, adding even more implausible elements like telepathy, aliens with god-like powers, and space leeches that even out your space humors makes it harder to immerse oneself in the fiction.

The show would be pretty boring if faster than light travel wasn't allowed and aliens were restricted to purely physics-as-we-know-it and human qualities/limitations.

My dad was a huge fan of the original TV series. I never could get into it, but I enjoyed the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th movies involving the original cast.

I absolutely loved The Next Generation TV series and the movies with that cast.

Never got into anything after that, until recently I watched and really enjoyed Discovery and Picard. Anxiously awaiting new seasons of both.

I always found the episodes with Keiko O'Brian as laborious to watch.  She was just so annoying and off-putting.  Too bad O'Brian could not find a more suiting woman.  She always acted like she was better than everyone else.

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 22, 2021, 09:11:30 AM
I always found the episodes with Keiko O'Brian as laborious to watch.  She was just so annoying and off-putting.  Too bad O'Brian could not find a more suiting woman.  She always acted like she was better than everyone else.

IMO, Rosalind Chao wasted her talents on DS9. I saw her in Joy Luck Club and thought she ws decent.

Quote from: US71 on May 22, 2021, 01:48:04 PM

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 22, 2021, 09:11:30 AM
I always found the episodes with Keiko O'Brian as laborious to watch.  She was just so annoying and off-putting.  Too bad O'Brian could not find a more suiting woman.  She always acted like she was better than everyone else.

I really wasn't a huge fan of O'Brien both on TNG or DS9.  He was okay, but I didn't really care for his storylines.

Odo was easily my favorite.

IMO, Rosalind Chao wasted her talents on DS9. I saw her in Joy Luck Club and thought she ws decent.

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 22, 2021, 09:11:30 AM
I always found the episodes with Keiko O'Brian as laborious to watch.  She was just so annoying and off-putting.  Too bad O'Brian could not find a more suiting woman.  She always acted like she was better than everyone else.

I like the way the O'Briens were shown in DS9.  They were like a real life couple - they love each other but also have different interests, and different things that would be good for their careers.  Keiko is not going to be a 1950s sitcom wife who just says "Yes, dear, whatever you say" and gives up her botany career without a whimper.  Neither does she ask Miles to ask for a transfer away from DS9 to wherever Keiko could do some botany.

I did like that they did show O'Brian as they had a non commissioned officer character.  They should have had a little more grunt written into his character though.  I liked Constable Odo's character.  I wished that they would have designed a proper uniform for him to denote that he was a constable.  He looked just like any other Bejouran.

For those who would like to stay in a Star Trek-themed motel room, check out the Itty Bitty Inn in North Bend OR.  This motel has just five rooms but the Star Trek room is numbered 1701.  You can get a commemorative t-shirt, Romulan soap and other neat things from the check-in desk too.

Rick

Quote from: nexus73 on May 25, 2021, 11:04:34 AM
For those who would like to stay in a Star Trek-themed motel room, check out the Itty Bitty Inn in North Bend OR.  This motel has just five rooms but the Star Trek room is numbered 1701.  You can get a commemorative t-shirt, Romulan soap and other neat things from the check-in desk too.

Rick

Oh that's awesome! I think I might need to plan a trip!

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 25, 2021, 08:32:22 AM
I did like that they did show O'Brian as they had a non commissioned officer character.  They should have had a little more grunt written into his character though.  I liked Constable Odo's character.  I wished that they would have designed a proper uniform for him to denote that he was a constable.  He looked just like any other Bejouran.

He was wearing a Bajoran militia uniform, a lot like Kira's only a different color.  When we saw Bajoran civilians their clothes looked looser and often with a pattern or more colors.

Quote from: kkt on May 25, 2021, 11:54:10 AM

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 25, 2021, 08:32:22 AM
I did like that they did show O'Brian as they had a non commissioned officer character.  They should have had a little more grunt written into his character though.  I liked Constable Odo's character.  I wished that they would have designed a proper uniform for him to denote that he was a constable.  He looked just like any other Bejouran.

He was wearing a Bajoran militia uniform, a lot like Kira's only a different color.  When we saw Bajoran civilians their clothes looked looser and often with a pattern or more colors.

Thing is, that was all part of Odo's shape shifting as well.  He could easily have shifted into any type of clothes/uniform he wanted.

Sure, he could.  But the uniform identifies him as a security officer.

Quote from: kkt on May 25, 2021, 08:13:45 PM
Sure, he could.  But the uniform identifies him as a security officer.

He was a constable which is different from a security officer.  He was the law enforcement entity aboard the space station.

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 26, 2021, 09:44:33 AM

Quote from: kkt on May 25, 2021, 08:13:45 PM
Sure, he could.  But the uniform identifies him as a security officer.

He was a constable which is different from a security officer.  He was the law enforcement entity aboard the space station.

"Constable" was a nickname that Odo didn't really like, even though it was meant affectionately.  He introduced himself as chief of security.

One thing I didn't like that deviated from the original was how the appearance of the Klingons changed. I hated the ridged foreheads.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 26, 2021, 08:33:45 PM
One thing I didn't like that deviated from the original was how the appearance of the Klingons changed. I hated the ridged foreheads.

That was alright.  For crying out loud, the OG Klingons were just dudes with beards. That's doing aliens on a budget.
But what was really groan-worthy was devoting a two part Enterprise episode to explain why it changed. (or maybe it was just one episode; whatever.  The point is ret-con is bad.)

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 04, 2021, 05:09:07 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on May 26, 2021, 08:33:45 PM
One thing I didn't like that deviated from the original was how the appearance of the Klingons changed. I hated the ridged foreheads.

That was alright.  For crying out loud, the OG Klingons were just dudes with beards. That's doing aliens on a budget.
But what was really groan-worthy was devoting a two part Enterprise episode to explain why it changed. (or maybe it was just one episode; whatever.  The point is ret-con is bad.)

Still not as bad as what JJ Abrams did to the franchise.... (awaits angry comments from fans of the "new" Trek)

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 04, 2021, 05:09:07 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on May 26, 2021, 08:33:45 PM
One thing I didn't like that deviated from the original was how the appearance of the Klingons changed. I hated the ridged foreheads.

That was alright.  For crying out loud, the OG Klingons were just dudes with beards. That's doing aliens on a budget.
But what was really groan-worthy was devoting a two part Enterprise episode to explain why it changed. (or maybe it was just one episode; whatever.  The point is ret-con is bad.)

Don't blame Enterprise for trying to explain why it changed; blame Deep Space Nine for making the idea that there even was an in-universe change canonical; prior to Trials and Tribble-ations and Worf's "we don't discuss it with outsiders" line, it was possible to assume that Klingons always looked the way they do in the other shows (besides Discovery).  The explanation from Enterprise makes sense and I liked those episodes; it certainly makes more sense than the "Klingons shave their heads when at war" idea Discovery came up with to explain their bald Klingons in season 1, which made even less sense than the contradiction it was trying to explain (their explanation for why the holo-phone was retired until the middle of Deep Space Nine was also a stretch).

Quote from: OCGuy81 on June 04, 2021, 06:59:04 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 04, 2021, 05:09:07 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on May 26, 2021, 08:33:45 PM
One thing I didn't like that deviated from the original was how the appearance of the Klingons changed. I hated the ridged foreheads.

That was alright.  For crying out loud, the OG Klingons were just dudes with beards. That's doing aliens on a budget.
But what was really groan-worthy was devoting a two part Enterprise episode to explain why it changed. (or maybe it was just one episode; whatever.  The point is ret-con is bad.)

Still not as bad as what JJ Abrams did to the franchise.... (awaits angry comments from fans of the "new" Trek)

No angry comments from me.  Abrams Trek isn't really Star Trek.  It's not very good fan fiction with an unusually big budget.

QuoteThe Orville

It is good to watch, and also has familiar people on it such as Robert Picardo and John Debney.

QuoteShorter Seasons

Too Short A Season by George Romanis. Filler Episodes do not need to be bad.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 21, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Star Trek is generally supposed to be a hopeful vision for humanity where we figured out how to balance our innate empathy with cold hard empirical science.  But they are annoyingly persistent at legitimizing whatever trendy pseudo-science was permeating Hollywood culture at the time each series was on.

It started right in the beginning with telepathy and Vulcans mind-melding with other species.  Completely rooted in 1960's esoteric ideas about consciousness and that kind of hippie bullshit.  Jump ahead to Next Generation and you can tell how much Hollywood had embraced therapists with the inclusion of not only a ship's counselor, but making that a bridge officer.  Worf does his Klingon yoga; Tuvoc does his Vulcan meditation; all right around the same time those became trendy in Hollywood.  The most egregious example though is Enterprise's Dr. Flox.  Jumping on the alternative medicine bandwagon, they have their future doctor using all sorts of new-agey 'natural' sounding modalities in a blatant endorsement of every Hollywood douchebag's kook witch doctor.

Those elements do not age well, I must say.  In an franchise with numerous technological cheats like faster than light travel and matter transporters, adding even more implausible elements like telepathy, aliens with god-like powers, and space leeches that even out your space humors makes it harder to immerse oneself in the fiction.

I did not look at it that way. I all ways thought that Vulcans / Vulcanians / Romulans were supposed to be based on some type of Eastern Culture. Spock initially had make up on his face to make it look like he has Cat's Eyes, that his eye lids are supposed to be pointed out and up. The Animated Series seems to reflect that also. In The Enterprise Incident by Fred Steiner, That Romulan Lady's space ship seems to be designed based on some royal palace. Gene Roddenberry was in The Military and perhaps he wanted it designed that way based on what he rememebered.

Hippie Culture would be when they had changed the lighting to look like one big Easter Egg Hunt. And then of course there is that Hippie Episode in Season 3.

I did not know about the Therapists; I simply believed that Star Trek's second pilot had a Psychiatrist and Star Trek Movies and The Next Generation revisited such things and even expanded upon them. Deanna and Riker is a partial revisit of Ilia and Decker. The rest of her character development is based on Marina personally knowing The Roddenberrys ... and of course the bickering between Deanna and Her Mother is an exaggerated version of Amanda and Dotty. Deanna as Ship's Housewife Counselor got to sit there in a dress while eating chocolate and nagging. It is also an exaggerated version of Amanda's portrayal as a Housewife.

Things that do not age well are production goofs such as shorter amounts of episodes, watered down music, and even recycled music, Exploding Consoles With Rocks Flying Out Of Them, numerous Holographic Simulation Nonsense, and of course Space Cowboy characters based off of Eddie Haskell and Christopher Stevens.

Also things that do not age well is small amounts of episodes, and killing of just about any character in every universe.

Mirror Universe episodes do not age well either. It is fine for only one episode.

Based on how Mirror Marlena and Mirror Spock were convinced to Shape Up. Kirk was able to successfully transform a corrupt Empire

... Unfortunately ... they made more episodes where all the alien species were conquered and destroyed and annihilated. There is no way that they would be so weak in any universe.

It might be a nice explanation of what happened to The Constitution Class Defiant in The Tholian Web by Fred Steiner. Or they could have just left everybody to believe that The Defiant was captured by Tholians and consumed ... basically converted to energy for them.

Quote from: Rothman on May 21, 2021, 06:59:34 AM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 21, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Star Trek is generally supposed to be a hopeful vision for humanity where we figured out how to balance our innate empathy with cold hard empirical science.  But they are annoyingly persistent at legitimizing whatever trendy pseudo-science was permeating Hollywood culture at the time each series was on.

It started right in the beginning with telepathy and Vulcans mind-melding with other species.  Completely rooted in 1960's esoteric ideas about consciousness and that kind of hippie bullshit.  Jump ahead to Next Generation and you can tell how much Hollywood had embraced therapists with the inclusion of not only a ship's counselor, but making that a bridge officer.  Worf does his Klingon yoga; Tuvoc does his Vulcan meditation; all right around the same time those became trendy in Hollywood.  The most egregious example though is Enterprise's Dr. Flox.  Jumping on the alternative medicine bandwagon, they have their future doctor using all sorts of new-agey 'natural' sounding modalities in a blatant endorsement of every Hollywood douchebag's kook witch doctor.

Those elements do not age well, I must say.  In an franchise with numerous technological cheats like faster than light travel and matter transporters, adding even more implausible elements like telepathy, aliens with god-like powers, and space leeches that even out your space humors makes it harder to immerse oneself in the fiction.

This was a good rant to start my day off with.  Someone angry at the legitimizing of therapists through fiction is a new one.

Perhaps this is why Kirstie Alley did not ever return to Star Trek.

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 21, 2021, 04:59:01 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 21, 2021, 12:00:35 AM
Star Trek is generally supposed to be a hopeful vision for humanity where we figured out how to balance our innate empathy with cold hard empirical science.  But they are annoyingly persistent at legitimizing whatever trendy pseudo-science was permeating Hollywood culture at the time each series was on.

It started right in the beginning with telepathy and Vulcans mind-melding with other species.  Completely rooted in 1960's esoteric ideas about consciousness and that kind of hippie bullshit.  Jump ahead to Next Generation and you can tell how much Hollywood had embraced therapists with the inclusion of not only a ship's counselor, but making that a bridge officer.  Worf does his Klingon yoga; Tuvoc does his Vulcan meditation; all right around the same time those became trendy in Hollywood.  The most egregious example though is Enterprise's Dr. Flox.  Jumping on the alternative medicine bandwagon, they have their future doctor using all sorts of new-agey 'natural' sounding modalities in a blatant endorsement of every Hollywood douchebag's kook witch doctor.

Those elements do not age well, I must say.  In an franchise with numerous technological cheats like faster than light travel and matter transporters, adding even more implausible elements like telepathy, aliens with god-like powers, and space leeches that even out your space humors makes it harder to immerse oneself in the fiction.

The show would be pretty boring if faster than light travel wasn't allowed and aliens were restricted to purely physics-as-we-know-it and human qualities/limitations.

Science Ninja Team: Gatchaman (not Battle Of The Planets) did not use Faster Than Light Travel, yet is not boring. On Interpol / International Science Organization's side, they had a few inexplicable technologies such as Bird Style transformations being done with clothes that change their shape and durability based on Sound Waves, and The Godphoenix being able to change from solid to vapor during Firebird Mode. The space aliens visit Earth, and none of them were Humanoid, especially the enemy's Leader, which is a giant glowing Pencil. While Science Ninja Team: Gatchaman is not entirely restricted, it at times is very different from Star Trek.

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 22, 2021, 09:11:30 AM
I always found the episodes with Keiko O'Brian as laborious to watch.  She was just so annoying and off-putting.  Too bad O'Brian could not find a more suiting woman.  She always acted like she was better than everyone else.

What I really hate is when Star Trek forgets its characters. If they did not, then there would be dozens of large amount of long episode Programmes with Musicians Of The Week being produced simultaneously.

One example is that Logan character in The Arsenal Of Freedom by Dennis McCarthy has no explanation of why he is there. It seems that both Encounter At Farpoint and The Naked Now were made very early, perhaps as early as 1985. It was a toss up of which episode to extend to be movie length. It also explains why The Main Bridge (a very luxurious bridge that was unfortunately vandalized after the end of Season One) is lacking The Cushions on the outside edges near The Captain's Chair. Enough time must have passed between those episodes and the remaining season. After The Naked Now, it seems that the cast member to be the new Chief Engineer was Argyle which was frequently written out of the episodes.

They snuck in a Log in a Remastered episode that implies that MacDougal, Argyle, and Lynch worked on Night Shifts while Geordi replaced Logan entirely.

A very good story arc would be if Logan and his family was out to get Geordi, not unlike Duras versus Worf.

...

Keiko was a candidate to replace Garrovick Wesley Crusher. Despite not taking over his station, she still had plenty of character development, being a Tutor and also Botanist. Unfortunately, she was limited to being a Wife and Mother for Miles Edward O'Brien, who unlike Argyle, got to appear in numerous episodes. His character developed perhaps for the first time in Season Four. ... unless you count Season Three's Booby Trap by Ron Jones "Ships In Bottles" line. In Season Four, O'Brien is revealed to be a Warrior, and fought against Cardassians.

Miles and Keiko have very different backgrounds. She is Eastern and He is Western. Their marriage is understandably going to not be so pleasant. At times it works such as when they take turns cooking, and they got to continue to know about each other. There were many times that they did not get along. His Military Career certainly does not help. She wants to have a Career of her own, and there are times that he misses her such as Honor Among Thieves by Gregory Smith. Ironically she did not appear in that episode, since Miles prefers to spend time with Julian instead. The best episode that has Keiko in it is The Assignment by Gregory Smith. It is very unfortunate that Star Trek did not consider a very talented Actress for more episodes.

It would also be nice for other guest stars to appear much more often until being promoted to Regular, just as Miles did. Suzie Plakson and Carolyn Seymour are two other examples of people that should have appeared more.

QuoteConstable

Odo Ital did not approve of that designation. He also did not approve of other things that his superiors demanded, such as immense record keeping. One episode has him making a complaint in his log entry about how they want to store records so badly, they are running out of room, and need to store them microscopically. Odo did not wish to have a Worf Style uniform. Worf Rozhenko Son Of Mogh took pride in his background, despite His People being immensely corrupt. Odo's name being Bajoran for Unknown Sample is one example of Odo being so plain he wants to blend in to The Background (and often does) ... He for the longest time loathed His People. Also The Changelings / The Founders Of The Dominion, despite seeming to have an Empress, are completely equal. Their subordinates are other creatures that they conjured up. Things such as Names, Ranks, Designations, and Titles, are completely foreign to Changelings.

Quote from: kkt on May 25, 2021, 11:54:10 AM

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 25, 2021, 08:32:22 AM
I did like that they did show O'Brian as they had a non commissioned officer character.  They should have had a little more grunt written into his character though.  I liked Constable Odo's character.  I wished that they would have designed a proper uniform for him to denote that he was a constable.  He looked just like any other Bejouran.

He was wearing a Bajoran militia uniform, a lot like Kira's only a different color.  When we saw Bajoran civilians their clothes looked looser and often with a pattern or more colors.

If they went all the way to be sure to have Comnbadges on the other side of their chests, they could have given Odo Ital a Red uniform and Kira Nerys a Gold / Emerald / Bronze uniform.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 25, 2021, 12:24:20 PM

Quote from: kkt on May 25, 2021, 11:54:10 AM

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 25, 2021, 08:32:22 AM
I did like that they did show O'Brian as they had a non commissioned officer character.  They should have had a little more grunt written into his character though.  I liked Constable Odo's character.  I wished that they would have designed a proper uniform for him to denote that he was a constable.  He looked just like any other Bejouran.

He was wearing a Bajoran militia uniform, a lot like Kira's only a different color.  When we saw Bajoran civilians their clothes looked looser and often with a pattern or more colors.

Thing is, that was all part of Odo's shape shifting as well.  He could easily have shifted into any type of clothes/uniform he wanted.

He could have also easily Shape Shifted into a facsimile of Weyoun. Weyoun would usually object to some body impersonating him ... but in this case, Odo could do that all he wanted to, and Weyoun would be in absolutely no position to question him.

QuoteWhat Should The Klingons Look Like?

I am usually very impressed with the high quality results of a 1964 programme, especially The Cage by Alexander Courage. The cinematography surpasses most of the regular episodes. And I know that having an entire squadron of Klingons is going to cause technical difficulties, but it could have been done to resemble The Klingons in The Motion Picture. Actually, it could have been done in even Elementary Schools. If Star Trek hired School Workers as part of their production staff, they could have asked teachers to assign students crafts projects that could double as costumes. They did similar sneaky things to make costumes. Some thing about sneaking them through the back door in the middle of the night?

Examples of astonishingly perfect results includes: The Talosians. No way that it could not have been done with The Klingons also.

Another example is: The Empath by George Duning. The Space Aliens in this episode said that they had difficulty choosing refugees but considered Gem's people as a possible choice. When Kirk says that they refuse to abandon Leonard H. Bones McCoy Son Of David, there is a close up shot of their faces.

Star Trek often tried to make space aliens look as unusual as possible. Despite being one or two most of the time, it could have still been done with The Klingons.

The Story Arc about Klingons impersonating other Species in Star Trek: Enterprise is a sufficient explanation of the Technical Difficulties. Also in Star Trek: Phase II New Voyages and / or Star Trek: Continues.

Quote from: kkt on June 04, 2021, 11:06:16 PM

Quote from: OCGuy81 on June 04, 2021, 06:59:04 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 04, 2021, 05:09:07 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on May 26, 2021, 08:33:45 PM
One thing I didn't like that deviated from the original was how the appearance of the Klingons changed. I hated the ridged foreheads.

That was alright.  For crying out loud, the OG Klingons were just dudes with beards. That's doing aliens on a budget.
But what was really groan-worthy was devoting a two part Enterprise episode to explain why it changed. (or maybe it was just one episode; whatever.  The point is ret-con is bad.)

Still not as bad as what JJ Abrams did to the franchise.... (awaits angry comments from fans of the "new" Trek)

No angry comments from me.  Abrams Trek isn't really Star Trek.  It's not very good fan fiction with an unusually big budget.

Their budget is so large, yet they can not hire Musicians Of The Week to score dedicated and various sound tracks and also have 26 hour long episodes per season per programme.

...

And Finally,

After watching Scarecrow And Mrs. King, it seems that a good amount of it influenced Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Scarecrow and Mrs. King...so who was the stowaway in TNG?

If Gene Roddenberry recruited Edward R. Brown and dozens and dozens of Guest Stars and Crew from Scarecrow and Mrs. King, he also paid attention to certain other areas such as when Amanda and Dotty bickered. ... and then made an exaggerated version of that with Deanna and Her Mother.

Also can not help but take notice to how Beverly initially took after a usual Kate Jackson character before resembling more as Marcia Cross.

I saw mostly the reruns of TOS as well as the animated series. I didn't followed TNG and DS9. ^^;

Btw, one guy on Youtube did a mash-up of Star Trek with the Space 1999 theme. Fred Freidberger worked on director on both series in their last seasons and some nicknamed Fred Freidberger the "showkiller".

Edit: Fixed the Youtube link.  :ded:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_Ch1SHKZRc

Quote from: Rothman on June 05, 2021, 10:40:20 AM
Scarecrow and Mrs. King...so who was the stowaway in TNG?

Wesley Crusher? :-D

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2021, 11:48:50 AM

Quote from: Rothman on June 05, 2021, 10:40:20 AM
Scarecrow and Mrs. King...so who was the stowaway in TNG?

Wesley Crusher? :-D

Heh.  Wesley as Mrs. King... :D

The moment where Picard finally snapped "Shut up, Wesley" made me laugh out loud because of just how unexpected it was, since Picard wasn't prone to losing his cool like that, and how deserved it was after the previous couple of seasons of Wesley being Wesley. You could just feel how long that had been simmering under the surface until Picard finally reached his breaking point.

And then like three lines later you get to relive the whole experience, but with his mom saying it this time!

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
The moment where Picard finally snapped "Shut up, Wesley" made me laugh out loud because of just how unexpected it was, since Picard wasn't prone to losing his cool like that, and how deserved it was after the previous couple of seasons of Wesley being Wesley. You could just feel how long that had been simmering under the surface until Picard finally reached his breaking point.

And then like three lines later you get to relive the whole experience, but with his mom saying it this time!

In the early scenes of Nemesis, Picard (lightheartedly) tells Data to shut up and then comments how he'd waited 15 years for that.

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on June 06, 2021, 11:25:54 AM
I saw mostly the reruns of TOS as well as the animated series. I didn't followed TNG and DS9. ^^;

Btw, one guy on Youtube did a mash-up of Star Trek with the Space 1999 theme. Fred Freidberger worked on director on both series in their last seasons and some nicknamed Fred Freidberger the "showkiller".

Too bad that Freiberger's reputation didn't get rehabilitated while he was alive since information since has shown that he was following Roddenberry's directive during TOS's third season, and he was the reason that 1999 even had a second season, and a third was planned with a spinoff (although I find Space: 1999 very, very lacking).  Note:  Information via the "These Are The Voyages" series of books.

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
The moment where Picard finally snapped "Shut up, Wesley" made me laugh out loud because of just how unexpected it was, since Picard wasn't prone to losing his cool like that, and how deserved it was after the previous couple of seasons of Wesley being Wesley. You could just feel how long that had been simmering under the surface until Picard finally reached his breaking point.

Possibly the best moment in the entire franchise.  Especially for viewers who had grown tired of his know-it-all, wunderkindism. 

---

New subject:
How do people feel about the Q?
Some of those episodes were decent, but other times it came off dopey.

So this Discovery series on the plus streaming network is it any good?  I don't even know the premise.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 07, 2021, 02:58:57 PM
New subject:
How do people feel about the Q?
Some of those episodes were decent, but other times it came off dopey.

I would say that the TNG episodes where Q was more of a backdrop were better than the ones more focused on the character himself, except for Season 3's Deja Q which was a hoot of an episode. I think they could have done without bringing him to the other two series, where his early appearance on DS9 was more of a character device to accentuate the differences between the characters of Sisko and Picard, and his Voyager arc with the Q Civil War and his son was just kind of stupid, plus even the writing staff admitted they were unsure how to justify putting him in the show when he could theoretically send Voyager home with the snap of a finger.

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 07, 2021, 03:14:00 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 07, 2021, 02:58:57 PM
New subject:
How do people feel about the Q?
Some of those episodes were decent, but other times it came off dopey.

I would say that the TNG episodes where Q was more of a backdrop were better than the ones more focused on the character himself, except for Season 3's Deja Q which was a hoot of an episode. I think they could have done without bringing him to the other two series, where his early appearance on DS9 was more of a character device to accentuate the differences between the characters of Sisko and Picard, and his Voyager arc with the Q Civil War and his son was just kind of stupid, plus even the writing staff admitted they were unsure how to justify putting him in the show when he could theoretically send Voyager home with the snap of a finger.

I enjoyed the "frenemy" relationship between him and Picard.  I think my favorite interaction between them was the episode "Tapestry" where he gives Picard the chance to see what his life would be like if he took less risks in his youth.  It was one of the best episodes of season 6, and had the perfect balance of humor and seriousness between the two of them.

I didn't really care for his appearances on DS9 or Voyager.

I never realized before today that Clarence Williams III  was on DS9

Quote from: OCGuy81 on June 07, 2021, 03:24:41 PM
I didn't really care for [Q's] appearances on DS9 or Voyager.

The lone DS9 one was kind of funny because it implied all you have to do to keep an omnipotent being from wanting to come back to your space station/starship ever again is to just fucking deck him.

QuoteWesley

Datalore by Ron Jones is a very good example of Garrovick Wesley solving a problem and causing two others at the same time. He rescues Data, but they are unable to stop Lore the moment that Lore uses Wesley as a Hostage.

Evolution by Ron Jones is a very annoying Wesley Crusher episode that was intended to have him outgrow his phase of prowling about the ship, but it would have made more sense if they did not delete all the scenes. He was asked by his friends to spend time with him but declined which is why Beverly was worried about him. Delete all those scenes and Beverly ends up sounding as a Helicopter Parent. Other deleted scenes include Doctor Paul Stubbs sounding even more menacing. There was more dialogue between he and Ilia Deanna as well as between he and Wesley. Wesley decided he did not want to end up as some creep so he starts spending time with others again. Unfortunately all these scenes ended up deleted and subsequent episodes has him back to playing in Medical Bay and Main Engineering again instead of it being part of a phase he went through. After all the episode's title is supposed to be about Wesley just as much as The Nanites.

The episodes where Wesley and Jean - Luc together are really the only time he should be in any episodes. The Bonding by Dennis McCarthy is an example of when he needs to confront Jean - Luc. They reconcile in Final Mission by Ron Jones.

QuoteQ

Trelane Q hints that Guinan is an alias derived from Texas Guinan, and that nobody knows her actual name. It would be nice to have more episodes with them instead of two scenes from two episodes. Guinan knowing that Q became mortal immediately when she walked in the room and then she stabbed him.

Q also likes to recruit people. He tried to recruit Will Decker Riker and then tried again successfully with Vash.

What I did not like is when they changed the sound effects of when Q disappears and reappears to a much shorter version.

QuoteDiscovery

No. Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard and other more recent Star Trek has recycled music.

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 07, 2021, 07:05:17 PM

Quote from: OCGuy81 on June 07, 2021, 03:24:41 PM
I didn't really care for [Q's] appearances on DS9 or Voyager.

The lone DS9 one was kind of funny because it implied all you have to do to keep an omnipotent being from wanting to come back to your space station/starship ever again is to just fucking deck him.

Sisko is lucky that punching Q worked out better than punching a Mac Truck that had pissed him off.

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 07, 2021, 03:07:34 PM
So this Discovery series on the plus streaming network is it any good?  I don't even know the premise.

I like the series, although I am buying the discs as the come out so I haven't seen anything that happened after season 2 yet.  They have a lot of neat plot ideas, and they like tying Discovery into previous Trek series which I appreciate.  On the other hand, I don't feel we've gotten to know most of the characters very well at all, except for the two or three most important characters they don't seem to be making that much effort to fill in backstory and personalities.  (Repeating to emphasize, this is based only on seasons 1 and 2.)

Star Trek: Strange New Worlds is a programme I am going to try to watch. It is doing some thing that should have been done decades ago ... More time with Pike's crew.

Slightly off-topic, but I wonder if some of you saw some Star Trek nods references or parodies like this fanfilm crossover of Star Trek vs Batman or the Star Trek nod in Spaceballs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wjdCB4VdnQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etY7kbRRQ_c