Surrender your man card here

[Rothman]

Manuals being better for fuel economy?  That benefit should come with instructions on how to properly shift gears so you realize those gains.

Typically the automatic variant of most new cars has better economy now.

Yes, which is why the statement made me scratch my head.

[1995hoo]

Welp, as a daily manual driver, I must chime in.

Manuals are not chosen because they are faster, or get better fuel economy, or because they're easier. They're just preferred for their engagement. You feel more involved. There's nothing wrong with that.

When I bought my Golf in 2015, the manual was the obvious pick: better fuel economy, cheaper to buy and cheaper to maintain, and more fun overall. Improved resale value as well, to the right person of course. Newer autoboxes have eliminated that fuel economy advantage, however, so now it's just about the "cheap and cheerful" vibe.

For the record: no one who daily's a manual thinks about the additional labor. It's all muscle memory. The only time it may come up is crawling up a hill, where it can be difficult to give the clutch a rest. And even then, it's not difficult, you just feel bad for the poor car.

I would add that as a long-time manual-shift driver, I don't think someone not being able to drive a manual, or not liking to, is necessarily a "man card violation." I can think of lots of reasons why someone may not have had the opportunity to learn, for example–our 18-year-old nephew in Florida just got his license last week, and the two vehicles on which he learned to drive both had automatics (his parents have a minivan and a small SUV). He just plain hasn't had the opportunity to learn to drive a manual, and on our recent visit we drove my wife's automatic-equipped TLX simply because it's by far the nicest roadtrip car we have.

[Max Rockatansky]

Manuals being better for fuel economy?  That benefit should come with instructions on how to properly shift gears so you realize those gains.

Typically the automatic variant of most new cars has better economy now.

Yes, which is why the statement made me scratch my head.

In the car world I hear the sentiment a lot.  I just attribute to people being stuck in their ways of when a manual actually provided superior performance and efficiency.  You hear the similar sentiments all over car culture anytime something becomes antiquated.   

[jakeroot]

Manuals being better for fuel economy?  That benefit should come with instructions on how to properly shift gears so you realize those gains.

Typically the automatic variant of most new cars has better economy now.

Yes, which is why the statement made me scratch my head.

Who made that statement? The only thing to that affect was this comment, and I quite clearly indicated that it wasn't true now...

When I bought my Golf in 2015, the manual was the obvious pick: better fuel economy, cheaper to buy and cheaper to maintain, and more fun overall. Improved resale value as well, to the right person of course. Newer autoboxes have eliminated that fuel economy advantage, however, so now it's just about the "cheap and cheerful" vibe.

In 2015, the Golf TDI (diesel) got better fuel economy with the six speed manual than the 7 speed DSG. The TDI Golfs on sale elsewhere as of 2021 have superior fuel economy with the automatics. It's a change that has come to be the case literally within the last few years.

[jakeroot]

I would add that as a long-time manual-shift driver, I don't think someone not being able to drive a manual, or not liking to, is necessarily a "man card violation."

Completely agree. There is zero correlation. When I worked as a valet, I saw just as many female manual drivers as male. I might even say more females, but maybe it just caught my eye more often.

The less engagement I can feel commuting down the same slog of highway to work the better.  I much rather zone out and relax, I never could do that in a manual.  Yeah, back roads I'm with you that can be a lot of fun having the extra engagement. 

For those like me who do not have a regular commute, that issue is not apparent. I'm rarely in a hurry to go anywhere and I can choose many different routes, including "that back road" if I want. If I commuted all the time, I would be tempted to go with something that had automated cruise control, so I could just not drive at all.

[triplemultiplex]

You ever tuck your junk between your legs and look at yourself in a mirror?  Just to see what it would look like?
I'll admit it.

[kphoger]

You ever tuck your junk between your legs and look at yourself in a mirror?  Just to see what it would look like?
I'll admit it.

When I was, like, sixteen?

[OCGuy81]

Taylor Swift rules.

Yeah, I'm with you on this! My daughter would listen to her in the car, and damned if I don't find her music catchy.

[hbelkins]

When I'm driving, I don't particularly want to feel engagement. I want to get where I'm going. I don't necessarily enjoy driving. I enjoy the drive -- the roads, the scenery, the engineering features, the signage, etc. I want to put in as little effort as possible to get from Point A to Point B, even if I will take a longer, slower, curvier road to get there.

I always thought that manuals were considered more fuel efficient than automatics due to the weight. An automatic transmission weighed more than a clutch and gearbox for a standard.

My brother, however, prefers sticks for whatever reason. I presume fuel economy.

Here's another potential man-card-invalidating thought. I hate boxers and boxer briefs and I don't understand why the latter have become so popular lately. They bunch up in my pants legs and don't provide my desired level of support for my equipment that makes me a male. I want traditional briefs, and not those low-rise jobs either.

[Max Rockatansky]

As a distance runner I can't really do boxers given they don't really keep anything secure when engaged in physical activity.  That being the case I tend to go through a lot of underwear and boxer-briefs given they take a ton of wear and tear. 

[jakeroot]

Here's another potential man-card-invalidating thought. I hate boxers and boxer briefs and I don't understand why the latter have become so popular lately. They bunch up in my pants legs and don't provide my desired level of support for my equipment that makes me a male. I want traditional briefs, and not those low-rise jobs either.

I'm also not keen on boxers, and regular briefs and boxer briefs are not comfortable long term. I wear these and I find them very supportive.

[Scott5114]

I used to think it was normal for people to have gotten into a lot of fights growing up but I've found in my adult life that isn't the case.

I've never even been in a situation where getting into a fight was a possible potential outcome, mostly because I end up removing people that are that prone to violence from my life long before things can get to that point.

[Max Rockatansky]

I used to think it was normal for people to have gotten into a lot of fights growing up but I've found in my adult life that isn't the case.

I've never even been in a situation where getting into a fight was a possible potential outcome, mostly because I end up removing people that are that prone to violence from my life long before things can get to that point.

For context; when I was a kid fighting was how a lot of social issues were solved.   I don't recall fights in school ever being a big deal, about the harshest punishment I ever received was being yelled at by a school administrator or being grounded for a couple days.  Times seemingly are very different given I can't conceivably envision people being tolerant to children being in numerous fights a year.  The last in school fight I had was in the 8th grade which is when it became clear to me that might be more serious consequences. 

To that end, I did compete in state tournaments with several of martial arts before I was an adult.  I did often get punched in the face and had a few concussions from those fights.  Even those fights were sanctioned I found it was easier to get injured or injure someone else than the typical school yard variant.

In my adult life there was been times I've been hit in the face and worse given my career has at times involved detaining people (mostly shoplifters).  Probably the worst thing that ever happened to me was being ganged up on by three shoplifters in 2003.  I managed to fight two off and detain one but I was pretty dinged from the exchange. 

I haven't had to physically restrain anyone since late 2012, most businesses have long moved away from things like physical detainments.  Since 2005 I've been a security manager/administrator which helped a ton getting away from the serious physical stuff.  I'm also worlds better at talking people down or getting police officers to where I need them if I think things are going to go south.  I will note that I've never been even close to getting into a physical confrontation outside of a work setting in my adult life.   

[Takumi]

I’m in the process of selling my last manual car and will have a fleet entirely of automatics either until I revive and transmission swap my Fiero or I buy my dad’s old Ford Ranger when he decides to sell it.

(“Wait a minute, Takumi, didn’t you say you weren’t into trucks upthread?”, I hear someone ask. Yes, but I also recognize there’s a utilitarian use for them and that’s what I’d have the Ranger for. Can’t carry a bike in a 30-year-old sedan with a supercar engine.)

[jakeroot]

Can't carry a bike in a 30-year-old sedan with a supercar engine.

Bike rack? I have one on my hatchback.

[gonealookin]

In warm weather I prefer a visor to a full baseball cap.  It's hard to find a masculine-looking visor; generally the only place is in a store that sells golf equipment.  In addition to a few professional male golfers, there are also a few football coaches who wear visors, perhaps because the audio headset is more comfortable that way.  But I almost never see any other man wearing one.

[Takumi]

Can't carry a bike in a 30-year-old sedan with a supercar engine.

Bike rack? I have one on my hatchback.

I wasn't a fan of the fitment of a trunk rack on my friend's sedan, and he ended up putting his Ranger of the same vintage as my dad's back on the road to carry his bikes around. That said, long term I may trade the Aristo for another JDM Toyota, a couple of which are wagons or liftbacks that could more easily fit a bike.

[kenarmy]

You ever tuck your junk between your legs and look at yourself in a mirror?  Just to see what it would look like?
I'll admit it.

Yesss  .

Am I the only one who doesn't use the little hole in underwear to pee??

[GCrites]

I'm enough of a car guy to know that getting underneath the car on jackstands or even ramps is very dangerous and just not worth it over an oil change. Even getting the car on those things can be hairy. If you have a lift, fine. Oil and filters have gotten so expensive that you barely save money and not enough to get under the car. It really wasn't that long ago that a quart of oil was $1 instead of $6 and decent filters were $2, not $10.

Now let's think about someone who wants to change their own oil for the first time. Buy a jack and jackstands. A set with an only OK jack and two jackstands is what, $80? Do not even consider using the jack that comes with the car. Then the oil drain jobber thing. $20. Don't use a crescent wrench on the oil drain plug. Buy the exact size. Do you know the exact size? Better buy all sizes since you sure as hell don't have a dial caliper. Also get a drain plug gasket. Your kitchen funnel is a no. Do you even know what an oil filter wrench looks like? Another thing to buy unless you want to stab the old one with a screwdriver and hope it comes off that way. You did buy the filter with the bolt head on it if you don't have a filter wrench right? It might be SAE even though you probably had to go out and buy metric wrenches since your car was built after 1982. Oh you've done stuff around the house with your SAE wrenches. House stuff in the USA is the only thing left on Earth that doesn't take metric wrenches. That was true 30 years ago too.

[SkyPesos]

I prefer Dutch style/step-through bikes (called "women bikes" in the states for some reason) than step-over bikes for normal use on the streets.

[Max Rockatansky]

You ever tuck your junk between your legs and look at yourself in a mirror?  Just to see what it would look like?
I'll admit it.

Yesss  .

Am I the only one who doesn't use the little hole in underwear to pee??

The little hole is too little or doesn't exist on modern underwear. 

[Takumi]

I'm enough of a car guy to know that getting underneath the car on jackstands or even ramps is very dangerous and just not worth it over an oil change. Even getting the car on those things can be hairy. If you have a lift, fine. Oil and filters have gotten so expensive that you barely save money and not enough to get under the car. It really wasn't that long ago that a quart of oil was $1 instead of $6 and decent filters were $2, not $10.

Now let's think about someone who wants to change their own oil for the first time. Buy a jack and jackstands. A set with an only OK jack and two jackstands is what, $80? Do not even consider using the jack that comes with the car. Then the oil drain jobber thing. $20. Don't use a crescent wrench on the oil drain plug. Buy the exact size. Do you know the exact size? Better buy all sizes since you sure as hell don't have a dial caliper. Also get a drain plug gasket. Your kitchen funnel is a no. Do you even know what an oil filter wrench looks like? Another thing to buy unless you want to stab the old one with a screwdriver and hope it comes off that way. You did buy the filter with the bolt head on it if you don't have a filter wrench right? It might be SAE even though you probably had to go out and buy metric wrenches since your car was built after 1982. Oh you've done stuff around the house with your SAE wrenches. House stuff in the USA is the only thing left on Earth that doesn't take metric wrenches. That was true 30 years ago too.

This is a weird take, if I'm honest. I had access to a lift for the better part of a year, but 99% of people don't. Also, if you miss the right points on the lift, well, that's just disaster.

[Rothman]

I'm enough of a car guy to know that getting underneath the car on jackstands or even ramps is very dangerous and just not worth it over an oil change. Even getting the car on those things can be hairy. If you have a lift, fine. Oil and filters have gotten so expensive that you barely save money and not enough to get under the car. It really wasn't that long ago that a quart of oil was $1 instead of $6 and decent filters were $2, not $10.

Now let's think about someone who wants to change their own oil for the first time. Buy a jack and jackstands. A set with an only OK jack and two jackstands is what, $80? Do not even consider using the jack that comes with the car. Then the oil drain jobber thing. $20. Don't use a crescent wrench on the oil drain plug. Buy the exact size. Do you know the exact size? Better buy all sizes since you sure as hell don't have a dial caliper. Also get a drain plug gasket. Your kitchen funnel is a no. Do you even know what an oil filter wrench looks like? Another thing to buy unless you want to stab the old one with a screwdriver and hope it comes off that way. You did buy the filter with the bolt head on it if you don't have a filter wrench right? It might be SAE even though you probably had to go out and buy metric wrenches since your car was built after 1982. Oh you've done stuff around the house with your SAE wrenches. House stuff in the USA is the only thing left on Earth that doesn't take metric wrenches. That was true 30 years ago too.

This is a weird take, if I'm honest. I had access to a lift for the better part of a year, but 99% of people don't. Also, if you miss the right points on the lift, well, that's just disaster.

Friend of mine has a lift and when he offered it to me for my own use, that was my first thought:  Crash.

[jakeroot]

Can't carry a bike in a 30-year-old sedan with a supercar engine.

Bike rack? I have one on my hatchback.

I wasn't a fan of the fitment of a trunk rack on my friend's sedan, and he ended up putting his Ranger of the same vintage as my dad's back on the road to carry his bikes around. That said, long term I may trade the Aristo for another JDM Toyota, a couple of which are wagons or liftbacks that could more easily fit a bike.

I see. As it is the Pacific northwest, my obligatory roof rack was the perfect place to throw on a bike attachment. The fuel economy does admittedly drop slightly, but the low roofline and persistent hatch access made it much more desirable than tossing the bike in the back. Especially if I have luggage or whatnot.

[Duke87]

I'm enough of a car guy to know that getting underneath the car on jackstands or even ramps is very dangerous and just not worth it over an oil change. Even getting the car on those things can be hairy. If you have a lift, fine. Oil and filters have gotten so expensive that you barely save money and not enough to get under the car. It really wasn't that long ago that a quart of oil was $1 instead of $6 and decent filters were $2, not $10.

Now let's think about someone who wants to change their own oil for the first time. Buy a jack and jackstands. A set with an only OK jack and two jackstands is what, $80? Do not even consider using the jack that comes with the car. Then the oil drain jobber thing. $20. Don't use a crescent wrench on the oil drain plug. Buy the exact size. Do you know the exact size? Better buy all sizes since you sure as hell don't have a dial caliper. Also get a drain plug gasket. Your kitchen funnel is a no. Do you even know what an oil filter wrench looks like? Another thing to buy unless you want to stab the old one with a screwdriver and hope it comes off that way. You did buy the filter with the bolt head on it if you don't have a filter wrench right? It might be SAE even though you probably had to go out and buy metric wrenches since your car was built after 1982. Oh you've done stuff around the house with your SAE wrenches. House stuff in the USA is the only thing left on Earth that doesn't take metric wrenches. That was true 30 years ago too.

- My dad made a couple of ramps out of scrapwood years ago that work just fine for getting a little extra clearance underneath.
- Don't need to worry about the drain plug size if you already own a socket wrench set.
- An oil filter wrench can be helpful but we managed for years without one. If you only tightened it yourself by hand, you can get it off by hand.
- We just let the oil spill out into an old plastic tub. My dad has a metal funnel that he got from god knows where that is then useful for transferring it into the empty motor oil bottles afterwards.

So yeah it's not really a big deal. That said, I only DIY oil changes on my wife's car since it requires full synthetic and there is actually a significant cost savings there (like $60 instead of $100). My car takes conventional oil so it barely saves anything to DIY, and it's lower the ground so that much less convenient to.

Really the biggest annoyance overall is that the bylaws in the condo complex where we live prohibit doing automotive maintenance in the parking lot, so I have to first drive somewhere else before I can do anything. But my parents are 15 minutes away, so...