AARoads Forum

Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: The Nature Boy on November 28, 2015, 10:07:02 AM

Title: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on November 28, 2015, 10:07:02 AM
Maybe this has been done but I was playing around with Google Maps and found this:

By car, New York City is closer to Portland, Maine than it is to Buffalo. (314 miles vs. 352 miles)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 28, 2015, 10:34:37 AM
Yep - there's a whole lot of things that don't seem right until you look at a map.

Cape May, NJ is south of Baltimore & the northern-most points of Virginia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mgk920 on November 28, 2015, 10:40:03 AM
I always find it interesting in that Memphis, TN is farther west than Madison, WI.

Mike
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SignGeek101 on November 28, 2015, 10:41:15 AM
By linear distance, it's farther to travel from Kenora Ontario to Toronto Ontario (same province), then Jacksonville Florida to Toronto (it's about the same distance by car).

Canada's most southern point is farther south than the border with California and Oregon.

EDIT: fixed a bit of a typo
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on November 28, 2015, 11:07:50 AM
Reno, NV is further west than Los Angeles, CA.

Pensacola, FL is further west of Washington Island, WI.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: txstateends on November 28, 2015, 11:32:21 AM
Still blows me down that the distance of I-10 within TX is greater than the distances on I-10 to either coast from TX.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Tom958 on November 28, 2015, 01:34:53 PM
Dalhart, TX is closer to parts of twenty three states than it is to its own state's capital.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: corco on November 28, 2015, 01:39:38 PM
Quote from: Tom958 on November 28, 2015, 01:34:53 PM
Dalhart, TX is closer to parts of twenty three states than it is to its own state's capital.

23? Shenanigans. More like eight or nine
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 28, 2015, 02:13:30 PM
12 plus two Mexican states, actually :sombrero:. There is even a part in extreme southwestern Iowa that is closer to Dalhart TX than Texas capitol is.

Despite being in Southwestern Europe, I actually live just North of the latitude of Cape Cod.

Edit to add that Virginia actually reaches farther West than West Virginia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: roadman65 on November 28, 2015, 02:14:07 PM
Staten Island, NY is closer to NJ than it is to the rest of its own state.

Pennsville , NJ is New Jersey's westernmost point and yet is west of Allentown, PA.  Also west of Carbondale, PA further north being several miles west of Milford on US 6.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on November 28, 2015, 03:16:58 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on November 28, 2015, 03:12:11 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.
Except for south.

Which state do you hit before Minnesota?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: noelbotevera on November 28, 2015, 03:57:32 PM
Quote from: 1 on November 28, 2015, 03:16:58 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on November 28, 2015, 03:12:11 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.
Except for south.

Which state do you hit before Minnesota?
Never mind; my previous post is an error.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 28, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.

Jungholz in Austria. Head in all four directions, the first country you will cross into is Germany. Actually Jungholz would be an enclave if it wasn't for that point that connects it to the rest of Austria.
Quote from: noelbotevera on November 28, 2015, 03:12:11 PM
Except for south.

You haven't gone too far South. Zoom out.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on November 28, 2015, 03:59:27 PM
Detroit is closer to Philadelphia and Washington DC than it is to Ironwood MI in the western UP.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on November 28, 2015, 04:15:54 PM
Quebec City is closer to Washington DC than it is to Blanc Sablon (just barely in the same provence).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on November 28, 2015, 05:18:38 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.

Lesotho, San Marino, and Vatican City. :bigass: :bigass:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 1995hoo on November 28, 2015, 05:52:22 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.

Baarle-Hertog, maybe? Or at least there are several Dutch areas completely surrounded by Baarle-Hertog.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on November 28, 2015, 06:17:31 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 28, 2015, 03:57:51 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.

Jungholz in Austria. Head in all four directions, the first country you will cross into is Germany. Actually Jungholz would be an enclave if it wasn't for that point that connects it to the rest of Austria.
Quote from: noelbotevera on November 28, 2015, 03:12:11 PM
Except for south.

You haven't gone too far South. Zoom out.

The southernmost part of Superior will hit Michigan first when heading east.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: roadman65 on November 28, 2015, 06:59:59 PM
Cincinnati, OH is closer to Galveston, TX than El Paso is.

Of course anyplace in Texas can be closer to other cities in far away states than its own.  Even I-10 is shorter from the TX- NM State line to Los Angeles than it is to the other border where I-10 crosses from Texas into Louisiana.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: pianocello on November 28, 2015, 07:24:40 PM
To a non-Michigander, it would seem odd that the first country you hit when you're going south from Detroit is Canada.

It still blows my mind that all of Great Britain is north of the northernmost point of the continental US.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mhh on November 28, 2015, 07:25:09 PM
At the border crossings between Detroit, Michigan and Windsor, Ontario, the U.S. is to the north and Canada is to the south. If you travel from Detroit in any cardinal direction except west, the first foreign country that you reach will be Canada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on November 28, 2015, 08:58:08 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on November 28, 2015, 06:17:31 PM
The southernmost part of Superior will hit Michigan first when heading east.

Correct, just like the western portions of Detroit would miss Canada when going due south.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on November 28, 2015, 09:44:32 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.

Greenwich, CT, apparently. It was a Car Talk puzzler.


iPhone
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on November 28, 2015, 09:47:02 PM
Quote from: empirestate on November 28, 2015, 09:44:32 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.

Greenwich, CT, apparently. It was a Car Talk puzzler.


iPhone

I almost challenged this but then I saw that the eastern tip of Long Island, NY IS due east of Greenwich, CT.
Title: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on November 28, 2015, 11:40:03 PM
One of the more common of these deals with the easting of South America. For example, all of Colombia is east of all of Florida, and even Quito, Ecuador is east of Miami.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on November 29, 2015, 02:08:03 AM
Pittsburgh is east of Miami.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: national highway 1 on November 29, 2015, 06:34:31 AM
Brisbane, Queensland, is east of Sydney.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: DandyDan on November 29, 2015, 08:24:48 AM
One I read online somewhere (I don't remember where) is that Malmo, Sweden is closer to Milan, Italy than it is to Kiruna, Sweden.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Thing 342 on November 29, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
The western tip of Virginia is further west than Toledo, OH.
Because portions of the Aleutian islands extend west of 180W, Alaska is both the northernmost, westernmost, and easternmost state in the US.
Title: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on November 29, 2015, 10:07:14 AM
El Paso is closer to San Diego than to Houston.

Reno is further west than Los Angeles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Thing 342 on November 29, 2015, 10:40:06 AM
The trip from Key West, FL to Pensacola, FL is longer than the trip from Washington DC to St. Louis, MO.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TravelingBethelite on November 29, 2015, 11:09:34 AM
I-5 in California is over 200 miles longer (796.432 mi) than all of the rest of it (584.76 mi).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on November 29, 2015, 11:13:05 AM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on November 29, 2015, 11:09:34 AM
I-5 in California is over 200 miles longer (796.432 mi) than all of the rest of it (584.76 mi).

That's something I would have expected. It's not surprising.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on November 29, 2015, 11:42:08 AM
Liverpool on England's west coast (3°0'W) is east of Edinburgh on Scotland's east coast (3°11′W). Both are, in what would be shocking to almost all Americans, including many in this forum who seem to consider the term synonymous with the Americas, in the Western Hemisphere.

If you sail due east from the USA's eastern seaboard, the only place where you would reach France from is the island of Viques, part of Puerto Rico (reaches Sainte Martin) - Canada gets in the way of where 'metropolitan' France is at the same latitude in northern Maine. (AFAICS, the eastern edge of American Samoa doesn't line up with French Polynesia).

The EU has land borders with the Netherlands (Sainte Martin is part of the EU, Sint Maartin isn't) and Brazil (French Guyana).

The City of London has a population of just 7,375 and doesn't contain any of the following: the Houses of Parliament, Trafalgar Square, Leicester Square, Buckingham Palace, Covent Garden, Oxford Street, Madame Tussuads, the Tower of London. It does, however, contain London Bridge and St Paul's Cathedral.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on November 29, 2015, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: english si on November 29, 2015, 11:42:08 AM

The City of London has a population of just 7,375 and doesn't contain any of the following: the Houses of Parliament, Trafalgar Square, Leicester Square, Buckingham Palace, Covent Garden, Oxford Street, Madame Tussuads, the Tower of London. It does, however, contain London Bridge and St Paul's Cathedral.

I'm getting contradicting information.  The BBC says the population is 8.6 million http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-31082941

Is there a small London inside the large city of London?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 29, 2015, 11:56:44 AM

Solano County a part of California thats been labeled as part of San Francisco Bay Area in the US Census but half of the county touches the Sacramento Delta and Sacramento Valley.
Well Solano County has both the south end of the Sacramento River and the northeast corner of San Pablo Bay.   Solano County a county in California that has to pander to both Sacramento Valley and Bay Area commuters at the same time.


http://valleyecon.blogspot.com/2015/10/how-many-commuters-are-there-between.html


http://www.dailyrepublic.com/news/solanocounty/fairfield-suisun-sits-between-bay-valley/ (http://www.dailyrepublic.com/news/solanocounty/fairfield-suisun-sits-between-bay-valley/)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 29, 2015, 12:02:26 PM
http://www.ci.tracy.ca.us/?navid=791 (http://www.ci.tracy.ca.us/?navid=791)


City of Tracy, CA and Manteca, CA they are geographically in the San Joaquin Valley but their demographics pander to Bay Area Commuters.


http://www.mantecabulletin.com/archives/127230/
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: yanksfan6129 on November 29, 2015, 01:12:00 PM
Quote from: Big John on November 29, 2015, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: english si on November 29, 2015, 11:42:08 AM

The City of London has a population of just 7,375 and doesn't contain any of the following: the Houses of Parliament, Trafalgar Square, Leicester Square, Buckingham Palace, Covent Garden, Oxford Street, Madame Tussuads, the Tower of London. It does, however, contain London Bridge and St Paul's Cathedral.

I'm getting contradicting information.  The BBC says the population is 8.6 million http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-31082941

Is there a small London inside the large city of London?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on November 29, 2015, 02:35:13 PM
Cape Wrangell, Alaska is further west than Auckland, New Zealand.

If US 101 had kept its original length from San Ysidro, California, then the US 199 exit number near Crescent City would have been about Exit 928.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on November 29, 2015, 03:00:13 PM
Quote from: Big John on November 29, 2015, 11:54:55 AMIs there a small London inside the large city of London?
No, other way around: there's a small City of London inside a larger region of Greater London (not to be confused by the county of Greater London, which has the same external border, but doesn't include the City itself and has no administrative body, as either the region or the boroughs deal with the functions it would) that is commonly simply called 'London'.

All the tourist destinations I mentioned weren't in it are, save the Tower of London, in the City of Westminster - the only other city in the region (and no more special than the other boroughs unlike the City of London which is a sui generis body that is roughly-equivalent to a county most of the time, but other times is more autonomous than Scotland).

And the reason that the Tower of London is outside the City of London is because it was built to protect the kingdom from Londoners, rather than to protect London (though it was built straddling the Roman walls of the city).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 29, 2015, 03:11:38 PM
The territory called Afghanistan in the Risk game doesn't include the actual Afghanistan.
Quote from: english si on November 29, 2015, 11:42:08 AMThe EU has land borders with the Netherlands (Sainte Martin is part of the EU, Sint Maartin isn't) and Brazil (French Guyana).

The second border is a well-known fact in Sporcle, as it allows to jump from the Americas to Europe (and Africa and Asia with it) in a border-crossing challenge.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on November 29, 2015, 03:15:38 PM
Quote from: english si on November 29, 2015, 03:00:13 PM
Quote from: Big John on November 29, 2015, 11:54:55 AMIs there a small London inside the large city of London?
No, other way around: there's a small City of London inside a larger region of Greater London (not to be confused by the county of Greater London, which has the same external border, but doesn't include the City itself and has no administrative body, as either the region or the boroughs deal with the functions it would) that is commonly simply called 'London'.

All the tourist destinations I mentioned weren't in it are, save the Tower of London, in the City of Westminster - the only other city in the region (and no more special than the other boroughs unlike the City of London which is a sui generis body that is roughly-equivalent to a county most of the time, but other times is more autonomous than Scotland).

And the reason that the Tower of London is outside the City of London is because it was built to protect the kingdom from Londoners, rather than to protect London (though it was built straddling the Roman walls of the city).
So I learn something every day.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on November 29, 2015, 03:15:41 PM
Pennsylvania reaches further north than Connecticut.  This always felt counterintuitive to me.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: roadman65 on November 29, 2015, 03:55:23 PM
Yes Florida is quite west of the Mid Atlantic and New England as you can tell if you travel between the northern regions and Florida in Winter.

I once went to NJ for Thanksgiving weekend and was amazed at how dark it got so early in the late afternoon compared to home.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 29, 2015, 06:12:01 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernon,_California


City of Vernon, CA just outside of Los Angeles (City).  I'm shocked its even a city and it has 112 people as its population. I'm shocked that Los Angeles (city) and Los Angeles County didn't just seize territory from Vernon,CA and declare it county territory.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 29, 2015, 06:17:57 PM
http://roadtrippers.kinja.com/welcome-to-americas-smallest-city-dont-worry-theres-1505997771

Monowi, Nebraska. I had no idea you can incorporate a city of 1 person. What!!!

http://www.bitrebels.com/lifestyle/smallest-town-in-america-population-one-person/

I had no idea that's even legal to make a charter city or a general law city and incorporate it with 1 person. I thought you need the voters of a county or a state in some cases to make it legal and a state and a state congress to ratify that. Also the budget would be a big deal in all of this.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Mr. Matté on November 29, 2015, 06:47:42 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monowi,_Nebraska

It didn't have one person when it was incorporated.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 29, 2015, 07:35:55 PM
I just want to know how busy of a town it is for it to have 4 traffic lights!!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webfil on November 29, 2015, 07:46:23 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 29, 2015, 03:15:41 PM
Pennsylvania reaches further north than Connecticut.  This always felt counterintuitive to me.

And reaches further north than the northernmost point of Boston.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 07:48:28 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 29, 2015, 03:15:41 PM
Pennsylvania reaches further north than Connecticut.  This always felt counterintuitive to me.

Along that same vein, Plattsburgh, NY is north of Augusta, ME.

New York is quite a northern state, the city's location at its southern tip skews people towards considering it "Mid-Atlantic."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 29, 2015, 07:54:42 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 07:48:28 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 29, 2015, 03:15:41 PM
Pennsylvania reaches further north than Connecticut.  This always felt counterintuitive to me.

Along that same vein, Plattsburgh, NY is north of Augusta, ME.

New York is quite a northern state, the city's location at its southern tip skews people towards considering it "Mid-Atlantic."

I've never heard New York considered a Mid-Atlantic state.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 29, 2015, 07:58:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Matté on November 29, 2015, 06:47:42 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monowi,_Nebraska

It didn't have one person when it was incorporated.

130 people at its peak for Monowi.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 29, 2015, 07:59:50 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhinDeli_Town_Buford,_Wyoming

Here is another city with fewer than 10 people that's amazing and unincorporated.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 08:04:52 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 29, 2015, 07:54:42 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 07:48:28 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 29, 2015, 03:15:41 PM
Pennsylvania reaches further north than Connecticut.  This always felt counterintuitive to me.

Along that same vein, Plattsburgh, NY is north of Augusta, ME.

New York is quite a northern state, the city's location at its southern tip skews people towards considering it "Mid-Atlantic."

I've never heard New York considered a Mid-Atlantic state.

It gets tossed into the Mid-Atlantic for some things. The Little League World Series, for example, tosses NY into the "Mid-Atlantic" region. And here's an example of a Mid-Atlantic regional partnership that includes New York: http://midatlanticocean.org/

It's definitely iffy but it does sometimes get included as a Mid-Atlantic state. New York should be its own region, to be honest. It's not New England or the Midwest but north of the city, its eastern part is most similar to the former and its western part the latter. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on November 29, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 29, 2015, 03:55:23 PM
Yes Florida is quite west of the Mid Atlantic and New England as you can tell if you travel between the northern regions and Florida in Winter.

I once went to NJ for Thanksgiving weekend and was amazed at how dark it got so early in the late afternoon compared to home.

Well, that's more a function of north/south than of east/west. The length of daylight varies less as you get closer to the equator, which was a bit of a shock to me when I visited the British Isles (even though I know they are farther north than their temperate climate would have me expect).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SignGeek101 on November 29, 2015, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: empirestate on November 29, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
I'd expect the surprising fact to be that Kenora and Toronto are farther apart than Jacksonville and Toronto.

Wow.... I feel stupid. That's what I meant to say in the original post, not the other way around. I found a way to misunderstand/write the wrong text twice in a row.  :banghead:  :banghead: :banghead:

Well, anyway, that fact is ruined. Edited the original post.

So, yes, Kenora and Toronto are farther apart than Jacksonville and Toronto by linear distance, and about the same if you were to drive.

Of course, it would make sense the other way around.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on November 29, 2015, 09:15:08 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 29, 2015, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: empirestate on November 29, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 28, 2015, 11:50:58 PM
Quote from: empirestate on November 28, 2015, 11:40:03 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 28, 2015, 10:41:15 AM
By linear distance, it's closer to travel from Kenora Ontario to Toronto Ontario (same province), then Jacksonville Florida to Toronto (it's about the same distance by car).

Perhaps I'm misreading, but this seems to be perfectly in line with conventional wisdom. I would expect two points Ontario to be closer together than a point in Ontario and one in Florida.

I think if one didn't look at a map, it would be more difficult to visualize. I find it a bit interesting that a provincial capital is the same distance away from a small northern town than if one were to drive from northern Florida to that same particular capital, several states away, and pretty much across the US vertically. It just shows how vast Ontario is. The first time I heard that information that I posted earlier, I didn't believe them until I checked a map.

I'd expect the surprising fact to be that Kenora and Toronto are farther apart than Jacksonville and Toronto.

Wow.... I feel stupid. That's what I meant to say in the original post, not the other way around. I found a way to misunderstand/write the wrong text twice in a row.  :banghead:  :banghead: :banghead:

Well, anyway, that fact is ruined. Edited the original post.

So, yes, Kenora and Toronto are farther apart than Jacksonville and Toronto by linear distance, and about the same if you were to drive.

Of course, it would make sense the other way around.

Ah! That certainly explains it. Well then I will edit out the now-superfluous portions of my confused replies. :-)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 29, 2015, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: empirestate on November 29, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 29, 2015, 03:55:23 PM
Yes Florida is quite west of the Mid Atlantic and New England as you can tell if you travel between the northern regions and Florida in Winter.

I once went to NJ for Thanksgiving weekend and was amazed at how dark it got so early in the late afternoon compared to home.

Well, that's more a function of north/south than of east/west. The length of daylight varies less as you get closer to the equator, which was a bit of a shock to me when I visited the British Isles (even though I know they are farther north than their temperate climate would have me expect).

While there's a bit more daylight in Florida, it's a combination of the 2, although NJ's distance east is pretty significant.

Today in Orlando, sunset was 5:28pm

In Trenton, NJ, well east of Orlando, sunset was 4:34pm, nearly an hour earlier.

But in Cleveland, OH, roughly the same longitude as Orlando, sunset was 4:58pm, a half hour earlier.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
The sunset tomorrow where I live is 3:56 PM. New England really needs to join the Atlantic time zone. It's pitch black here before 5.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SD Mapman on November 29, 2015, 11:05:06 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 29, 2015, 07:35:55 PM
I just want to know how busy of a town it is for it to have 4 traffic lights!!
I think they meant four lights.

Actually, towns that small aren't a surprise to those of us from that part of the world.

What was always weird to me was that US 81 acts as a dividing line in KS and OK, but is on the eastern edge in SD and ND.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SignGeek101 on November 29, 2015, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
The sunset tomorrow where I live is 3:56 PM. New England really needs to join the Atlantic time zone. It's pitch black here before 5.

It's similar in Quebec city (3:59). The Atlantic time zone should be extended west IMO. It would follow the state line between NY and CT, MA, and VT border. Then it would cross the border and follow a line just east of Montreal.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Duke87 on November 29, 2015, 11:47:11 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 29, 2015, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
The sunset tomorrow where I live is 3:56 PM. New England really needs to join the Atlantic time zone. It's pitch black here before 5.
It's similar in Quebec city (3:59). The Atlantic time zone should be extended west IMO. It would follow the state line between NY and CT, MA, and VT border. Then it would cross the border and follow a line just east of Montreal.

Typically time zones are arranged to not split metro areas. This is why a chunk of eastern Oregon is in Mountain Time, to match Boise. For similar reasons, you wouldn't want southwestern CT in a different time zone from NYC. Realistically, it'd be difficult to move the border between Atlantic and Eastern into the US without making a mess of things. New England is too densely populated. Although you maybe could work something out where Connecticut and Western Mass stay in Eastern while the rest of New England goes Atlantic.


On that note, one of my favorite counterintuitive geography facts: the southwestern corner of Massachusetts is closer as the crow flies to New York City than it is to Boston.

A few more:
- Cape May, NJ is as far south as Washington, DC
- New Jersey spans more north-south distance than Tennessee
- Hawaii is closer to Alaska than it is to California.
- Los Angeles is closer to New York City than it is to Honolulu
- Los Angeles is closer to Anchorage than it is to New York City!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webfil on November 30, 2015, 12:09:00 AM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 29, 2015, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
The sunset tomorrow where I live is 3:56 PM. New England really needs to join the Atlantic time zone. It's pitch black here before 5.

It's similar in Quebec city (3:59). The Atlantic time zone should be extended west IMO. It would follow the state line between NY and CT, MA, and VT border. Then it would cross the border and follow a line just east of Montreal.

The tendency is rather eastward; the province of Québec used to be divided in two at 68° West. Towns such as Rimouski and Baie-Comeau were located in the Atlantic Time Zone. In 1969, the government pushed east to 63° W the limits. However, in the Minganie region that includes ÃŽle d'Anticosti, Eastern Standard Time or Eastern Daylight Time applies even though it is east of meridian 63. Basse-Côte-Nord is not among the exceptions, because Atlantic Standard Time applies there year round as provided in section 2 of the Legal Time Act. In ÃŽles-de-la-Madeleine and the Listuguj Mi'kmaq reserve (Gaspésie), from the second Sunday in March at 2:00 a.m. to the first Sunday in November at 2:00 a.m., the legal time is Atlantic Daylight Saving Time, which is three hours behind Coordinated Universal Time (UTC — 3 h).

There currently are discussions to harmonize the time zone limits with the eastward extensions of Route 138. I don't know how it will take form, though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on November 30, 2015, 12:16:18 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 29, 2015, 11:47:11 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 29, 2015, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
The sunset tomorrow where I live is 3:56 PM. New England really needs to join the Atlantic time zone. It's pitch black here before 5.
It's similar in Quebec city (3:59). The Atlantic time zone should be extended west IMO. It would follow the state line between NY and CT, MA, and VT border. Then it would cross the border and follow a line just east of Montreal.

Typically time zones are arranged to not split metro areas. This is why a chunk of eastern Oregon is in Mountain Time, to match Boise. For similar reasons, you wouldn't want southwestern CT in a different time zone from NYC. Realistically, it'd be difficult to move the border between Atlantic and Eastern into the US without making a mess of things. New England is too densely populated. Although you maybe could work something out where Connecticut and Western Mass stay in Eastern while the rest of New England goes Atlantic.


On that note, one of my favorite counterintuitive geography facts: the southwestern corner of Massachusetts is closer as the crow flies to New York City than it is to Boston.

A few more:
- Cape May, NJ is as far south as Washington, DC
- New Jersey spans more north-south distance than Tennessee
- Hawaii is closer to Alaska than it is to California.
- Los Angeles is closer to New York City than it is to Honolulu
- Los Angeles is closer to Anchorage than it is to New York City!

There was a Facebook map recently that showed that Berkshire County, MA residents are more likely to be Yankee fans (the same trend held for Bennington County, VT too), likely influenced by proximity to Albany.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 07:43:56 AM

Quote from: Duke87 on November 29, 2015, 11:47:11 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 29, 2015, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
The sunset tomorrow where I live is 3:56 PM. New England really needs to join the Atlantic time zone. It's pitch black here before 5.
It's similar in Quebec city (3:59). The Atlantic time zone should be extended west IMO. It would follow the state line between NY and CT, MA, and VT border. Then it would cross the border and follow a line just east of Montreal.

Typically time zones are arranged to not split metro areas. This is why a chunk of eastern Oregon is in Mountain Time, to match Boise. For similar reasons, you wouldn't want southwestern CT in a different time zone from NYC. Realistically, it'd be difficult to move the border between Atlantic and Eastern into the US without making a mess of things. New England is too densely populated. Although you maybe could work something out where Connecticut and Western Mass stay in Eastern while the rest of New England goes Atlantic.


Connecticut is too small and dense to split.  It's too connected to New York in the Southwest to put it in Atlantic.  Hartford is too connected to Springfield to separate there.  Maybe Connecticut and Western Mass. and Vermont stay in EST, and the rest shift to Atlantic. 

Someone wrote an op-ed piece here on this:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/04/why-massachusetts-should-defect-from-its-time-zone/zusFxWGPQmwv6bfUb1ssxH/story.html

I think it's all rubbish when you go trying to allocate daylight for some over others.  Every October and December there is a steady stream of complaints about getting up in the dark.  This would only become much more pervasive.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on November 30, 2015, 08:08:07 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 29, 2015, 09:30:23 PM
Quote from: empirestate on November 29, 2015, 08:20:39 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 29, 2015, 03:55:23 PM
Yes Florida is quite west of the Mid Atlantic and New England as you can tell if you travel between the northern regions and Florida in Winter.

I once went to NJ for Thanksgiving weekend and was amazed at how dark it got so early in the late afternoon compared to home.

Well, that's more a function of north/south than of east/west. The length of daylight varies less as you get closer to the equator, which was a bit of a shock to me when I visited the British Isles (even though I know they are farther north than their temperate climate would have me expect).

While there's a bit more daylight in Florida, it's a combination of the 2, although NJ's distance east is pretty significant.

Today in Orlando, sunset was 5:28pm

In Trenton, NJ, well east of Orlando, sunset was 4:34pm, nearly an hour earlier.

But in Cleveland, OH, roughly the same longitude as Orlando, sunset was 4:58pm, a half hour earlier.

Yes, I meant to add that longitude does have an effect, depending on where you are in relation to the edges of the time zone. But the variation in daylight through the year is affected by latitude, whereas longitude just shifts everything earlier or later.

Quote from: Duke87 on November 29, 2015, 11:47:11 PM
Typically time zones are arranged to not split metro areas. This is why a chunk of eastern Oregon is in Mountain Time, to match Boise. For similar reasons, you wouldn't want southwestern CT in a different time zone from NYC. Realistically, it'd be difficult to move the border between Atlantic and Eastern into the US without making a mess of things. New England is too densely populated. Although you maybe could work something out where Connecticut and Western Mass stay in Eastern while the rest of New England goes Atlantic.

Just follow the Yankees/Red Sox line. :-D

Quote from: Duke87 on November 29, 2015, 11:47:11 PM
On that note, one of my favorite counterintuitive geography facts: the southwestern corner of Massachusetts is closer as the crow flies to New York City than it is to Boston.

Yes, and that's part of why Boston Corner (so-called because it's nowhere near Boston) was ceded to New York, resulting in that funny bevel at the corner of Massachusetts. (Mostly it was because the area was topographically isolated, however.)

Socially, the result is that Berkshire County is a traditional vacation spot for New Yorkers, while Bostonians tended more toward Cape Cod or the White Mountains.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
The sunset tomorrow where I live is 3:56 PM. New England really needs to join the Atlantic time zone. It's pitch black here before 5.

If that happens though, you are then pushing sunrises in December after 8:00.  When you live that far north, you're going to have it dark at some inconvenient times in the winter.

Where I live, we have the opposite problem.  I'm almost 200 miles west of where the border between Eastern and Central should be but am on Eastern.  The latest sunset we ever get is 5:22, which seems nice, but sunrise is after 7:30 from November 22-February 18, and then when DST kicks in, sunrise is again after 7:30 from March 13-30 and September 22-November 5.

And I'm at the far southern end of Indiana.  Right before DST ends, South Bend gets sunrises as late as 8:15.  That's insane.

We sacrifice a lot of morning sunlight (when lots of people are driving to work while kids are waiting on school buses) in order to get it in the evening.  It seems ridiculous to me.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 30, 2015, 11:29:59 AM
Rhode Island a state that's the size  of San Joaquin County but carries the population size of Sacramento county. Also Rhode Island Carries the population of the City of San Jose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhode_Island

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Joaquin_County,_California

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_County,_California
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on November 30, 2015, 11:51:17 AM
Quote from: bing101 on November 30, 2015, 11:29:59 AM
Rhode Island a state that's the size  of San Joaquin County but carries the population size of Sacramento county.

Along this same vein, Grafton and Coos Counties in New Hampshire and the majority of Maine's counties are all larger than Rhode Island.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Zeffy on November 30, 2015, 12:53:04 PM
I don't think people are surprised at how small and dense the east coast states, especially NJ, CT, RI and MA are. It's common knowledge that we stack people on top of each other. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 30, 2015, 01:26:54 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 29, 2015, 11:05:06 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 29, 2015, 07:35:55 PM
I just want to know how busy of a town it is for it to have 4 traffic lights!!
I think they meant four lights.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw297%2FZombie_61%2FMiscellaneous%2FThere_Are_Four_Lights_zpsfnmrelkc.jpg&hash=659de6a59d25be3f5c4a923be050f6035602647c)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on November 30, 2015, 01:29:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 30, 2015, 01:26:54 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 29, 2015, 11:05:06 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on November 29, 2015, 07:35:55 PM
I just want to know how busy of a town it is for it to have 4 traffic lights!!
I think they meant four lights.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi179.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw297%2FZombie_61%2FMiscellaneous%2FThere_Are_Four_Lights_zpsfnmrelkc.jpg&hash=659de6a59d25be3f5c4a923be050f6035602647c)

I viewed the area on GSV.  I don't even think they have 4 paved streets!  But I did find the bar though!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AMI'm almost 200 miles west of where the border between Eastern and Central should be...

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AM
We sacrifice a lot of morning sunlight (when lots of people are driving to work while kids are waiting on school buses) in order to get it in the evening.  It seems ridiculous to me.

Makes perfect sense to me. You can actually do things outside in the daylight when you get home from work. It's dark now when I get home, and it's only going to get worse for the next four weeks before it gets better.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 07:43:56 AMEvery October and December there is a steady stream of complaints about getting up in the dark.  This would only become much more pervasive.

Getting up the dark doesn't bother me, because I'm just showering and getting dressed for work. Getting home in the dark bothers me.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SignGeek101 on November 30, 2015, 01:53:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AMI'm almost 200 miles west of where the border between Eastern and Central should be...

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AM
We sacrifice a lot of morning sunlight (when lots of people are driving to work while kids are waiting on school buses) in order to get it in the evening.  It seems ridiculous to me.

Makes perfect sense to me. You can actually do things outside in the daylight when you get home from work. It's dark now when I get home, and it's only going to get worse for the next four weeks before it gets better.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 07:43:56 AMEvery October and December there is a steady stream of complaints about getting up in the dark.  This would only become much more pervasive.

Getting up the dark doesn't bother me, because I'm just showering and getting dressed for work. Getting home in the dark bothers me.

You guys live quite a bit south of me. Length of day right now is 8 hours, 27 min. Sunrise 8:03, sunset 4:31. I prefer going home in the dark rather than getting up in the dark, but I don't like either.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 30, 2015, 02:08:32 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose,_California

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland,_California

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco

Oakland has more land area than San Francisco and San Jose is the largest city in northern California and not San Francisco.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on November 30, 2015, 02:19:50 PM
The westernmost part of Quebec is further west than Toronto.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Mapmikey on November 30, 2015, 02:32:04 PM
The southernmost part of Ontario is further south than the entirety of Idaho and Oregon, which also means there is a part of California further north than a part of Canada...

Mike
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 02:34:44 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AMI'm almost 200 miles west of where the border between Eastern and Central should be...

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AM
We sacrifice a lot of morning sunlight (when lots of people are driving to work while kids are waiting on school buses) in order to get it in the evening.  It seems ridiculous to me.

Makes perfect sense to me. You can actually do things outside in the daylight when you get home from work. It's dark now when I get home, and it's only going to get worse for the next four weeks before it gets better.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 07:43:56 AMEvery October and December there is a steady stream of complaints about getting up in the dark.  This would only become much more pervasive.

Getting up the dark doesn't bother me, because I'm just showering and getting dressed for work. Getting home in the dark bothers me.

In order to get useful time outside after a standard workday and commute, you would need sunrise to be after 9:00 am in the winter. 

I repeat: it's ridiculous to try to please people by shifting time around.  Don't like it?  Shift your work schedule.  Can't do that?  Get a different job.  Unless we go back to the days before standard time (and even then), there is no ideal for everyone.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on November 30, 2015, 02:51:41 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 02:34:44 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AMI'm almost 200 miles west of where the border between Eastern and Central should be...

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AM
We sacrifice a lot of morning sunlight (when lots of people are driving to work while kids are waiting on school buses) in order to get it in the evening.  It seems ridiculous to me.

Makes perfect sense to me. You can actually do things outside in the daylight when you get home from work. It's dark now when I get home, and it's only going to get worse for the next four weeks before it gets better.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 07:43:56 AMEvery October and December there is a steady stream of complaints about getting up in the dark.  This would only become much more pervasive.

Getting up the dark doesn't bother me, because I'm just showering and getting dressed for work. Getting home in the dark bothers me.

In order to get useful time outside after a standard workday and commute, you would need sunrise to be after 9:00 am in the winter. 

I repeat: it's ridiculous to try to please people by shifting time around.  Don't like it?  Shift your work schedule.  Can't do that?  Get a different job.  Unless we go back to the days before standard time (and even then), there is no ideal for everyone.

I don't care about waking up in the dark. I do care about my evening commute being in pitch black, darkness. I can handle a dawn and dusk commute because there's at least some natural light. Driving rural roads in Maine at night? It can be a harrowing experience, especially during "rush hour."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 04:50:39 PM

Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 30, 2015, 02:51:41 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 02:34:44 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AMI'm almost 200 miles west of where the border between Eastern and Central should be...

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AM
We sacrifice a lot of morning sunlight (when lots of people are driving to work while kids are waiting on school buses) in order to get it in the evening.  It seems ridiculous to me.

Makes perfect sense to me. You can actually do things outside in the daylight when you get home from work. It's dark now when I get home, and it's only going to get worse for the next four weeks before it gets better.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 07:43:56 AMEvery October and December there is a steady stream of complaints about getting up in the dark.  This would only become much more pervasive.

Getting up the dark doesn't bother me, because I'm just showering and getting dressed for work. Getting home in the dark bothers me.

In order to get useful time outside after a standard workday and commute, you would need sunrise to be after 9:00 am in the winter. 

I repeat: it's ridiculous to try to please people by shifting time around.  Don't like it?  Shift your work schedule.  Can't do that?  Get a different job.  Unless we go back to the days before standard time (and even then), there is no ideal for everyone.

I don't care about waking up in the dark. I do care about my evening commute being in pitch black, darkness. I can handle a dawn and dusk commute because there's at least some natural light. Driving rural roads in Maine at night? It can be a harrowing experience, especially during "rush hour."

Traffic here picks up by 6:30 am.  By 7 there are serious backups.  Sunrise goes as late as 7:14.  Shift light an hour, and all those many folks are driving to work in the dark.  Lots of normal workdays start by 8.

There will never, ever be consensus on this issue.  There never is.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on November 30, 2015, 06:48:36 PM
The Eastern Time Zone should be centered on the 75th meridian.  Meaning all of Michigan except a few square miles near Port Huron should be in CST.  But when the time zones were established, Detroit felt it needed to be on the same time as the big cities in the east.  And the rest of the state (except for the counties in the UP bordering Wisconsin) felt the eed to be on the same time as Detroit.

The same goes for Indiana - it really should all be CST.  At least they settled that funky "only half the state observes DST" - that always caused questions with family reunions with my wife's family in SW MI and northern IN - 1:00 which time?.

I can see why Ohio would care to all be in one time zone, and much of it would fall in the Eastern zone by longitude.  But KY and TN are too wide to keep in one time zone and had to be split; some like where the dividing line was put and others don't.

The Plains states have pushed the time zone lines west as well.  I've heard that in the far reaches of North Dakota, the sun doesn't set until after 10:00 CDT in June.

Edit:  It should be noted that most of KY and TN should fall into CST by longitude.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 11:31:50 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 30, 2015, 02:51:41 PM
I don't care about waking up in the dark. I do care about my evening commute being in pitch black, darkness. I can handle a dawn and dusk commute because there's at least some natural light. Driving rural roads in Maine at night? It can be a harrowing experience, especially during "rush hour."

Same here. Deer are everywhere. If we were still on Daylight Saving Time, I could better see them on my 30-mile drive home on rural roads.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on November 30, 2015, 11:51:24 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 11:31:50 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 30, 2015, 02:51:41 PM
I don't care about waking up in the dark. I do care about my evening commute being in pitch black, darkness. I can handle a dawn and dusk commute because there's at least some natural light. Driving rural roads in Maine at night? It can be a harrowing experience, especially during "rush hour."

Same here. Deer are everywhere. If we were still on Daylight Saving Time, I could better see them on my 30-mile drive home on rural roads.

We also have moose up here to worry about, that's the really scary thing.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on December 01, 2015, 05:39:25 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 11:31:50 PMDeer are everywhere. If we were still on Daylight Saving Time, I could better see them on my 30-mile drive home on rural roads.
But as you aren't still on DST you can better see them on your 30-mile drive *to* work on rural roads.

The issue is that we work too long hours in winter to not have at least one journey in the dark - no matter how we shift it!
Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 30, 2015, 01:53:06 PMYou guys live quite a bit south of me. Length of day right now is 8 hours, 27 min. Sunrise 8:03, sunset 4:31.
You live a bit further south, and further west of the centre of your timezone, than I. London's sunrise was 0745 this morning, with sunset at 1555 and I'm slightly west of that to give a minute or two shift later.

Of course, with the low and heavy cloud cover, the whole day is basically little better than twilight.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on December 01, 2015, 09:15:01 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 02:34:44 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AMI'm almost 200 miles west of where the border between Eastern and Central should be...

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AM
We sacrifice a lot of morning sunlight (when lots of people are driving to work while kids are waiting on school buses) in order to get it in the evening.  It seems ridiculous to me.

Makes perfect sense to me. You can actually do things outside in the daylight when you get home from work. It's dark now when I get home, and it's only going to get worse for the next four weeks before it gets better.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 07:43:56 AMEvery October and December there is a steady stream of complaints about getting up in the dark.  This would only become much more pervasive.

Getting up the dark doesn't bother me, because I'm just showering and getting dressed for work. Getting home in the dark bothers me.

In order to get useful time outside after a standard workday and commute, you would need sunrise to be after 9:00 am in the winter. 

I repeat: it's ridiculous to try to please people by shifting time around.  Don't like it?  Shift your work schedule.  Can't do that?  Get a different job.  Unless we go back to the days before standard time (and even then), there is no ideal for everyone.

The result of being on Eastern Time in Indiana is that, due to sunrises being so late, lots of schools start late.  My kids' school doesn't start until 9am in order to avoid having kids waiting for buses in the dark.  That puts a lot of parents in a bind because most of them have to be at work before 9am and have child care issues in the morning, which are more difficult to manage than child care issues in the afternoon.

If we were on Central Time, school could start at 8am and make things much easier on parents.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 01, 2015, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 01, 2015, 09:15:01 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 02:34:44 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AMI'm almost 200 miles west of where the border between Eastern and Central should be...

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AM
We sacrifice a lot of morning sunlight (when lots of people are driving to work while kids are waiting on school buses) in order to get it in the evening.  It seems ridiculous to me.

Makes perfect sense to me. You can actually do things outside in the daylight when you get home from work. It's dark now when I get home, and it's only going to get worse for the next four weeks before it gets better.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 07:43:56 AMEvery October and December there is a steady stream of complaints about getting up in the dark.  This would only become much more pervasive.

Getting up the dark doesn't bother me, because I'm just showering and getting dressed for work. Getting home in the dark bothers me.

In order to get useful time outside after a standard workday and commute, you would need sunrise to be after 9:00 am in the winter. 

I repeat: it's ridiculous to try to please people by shifting time around.  Don't like it?  Shift your work schedule.  Can't do that?  Get a different job.  Unless we go back to the days before standard time (and even then), there is no ideal for everyone.

The result of being on Eastern Time in Indiana is that, due to sunrises being so late, lots of schools start late.  My kids' school doesn't start until 9am in order to avoid having kids waiting for buses in the dark.  That puts a lot of parents in a bind because most of them have to be at work before 9am and have child care issues in the morning, which are more difficult to manage than child care issues in the afternoon.

If we were on Central Time, school could start at 8am and make things much easier on parents.

Or kids could just wait for the school bus when it's darker.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: roadman65 on December 01, 2015, 09:35:54 AM
Speaking of time zones, how about the UP of Michigan that lies due north of Chicago.  Their sunset and sunrise must be very late in come June and July, as it was in Cincinnati when I visited there in 1989. 

So basically when the sun goes down in Chicago at 7 PM it goes down at 8 PM in the parts of UP Michigan that lie north of Wisconsin which in some are even west of Chicago.

In essence the western part of the Eastern Time Zone is west of Chicago.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on December 01, 2015, 11:06:43 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 01, 2015, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 01, 2015, 09:15:01 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 02:34:44 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AMI'm almost 200 miles west of where the border between Eastern and Central should be...

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AM
We sacrifice a lot of morning sunlight (when lots of people are driving to work while kids are waiting on school buses) in order to get it in the evening.  It seems ridiculous to me.

Makes perfect sense to me. You can actually do things outside in the daylight when you get home from work. It's dark now when I get home, and it's only going to get worse for the next four weeks before it gets better.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 07:43:56 AMEvery October and December there is a steady stream of complaints about getting up in the dark.  This would only become much more pervasive.

Getting up the dark doesn't bother me, because I'm just showering and getting dressed for work. Getting home in the dark bothers me.

In order to get useful time outside after a standard workday and commute, you would need sunrise to be after 9:00 am in the winter. 

I repeat: it's ridiculous to try to please people by shifting time around.  Don't like it?  Shift your work schedule.  Can't do that?  Get a different job.  Unless we go back to the days before standard time (and even then), there is no ideal for everyone.

The result of being on Eastern Time in Indiana is that, due to sunrises being so late, lots of schools start late.  My kids' school doesn't start until 9am in order to avoid having kids waiting for buses in the dark.  That puts a lot of parents in a bind because most of them have to be at work before 9am and have child care issues in the morning, which are more difficult to manage than child care issues in the afternoon.

If we were on Central Time, school could start at 8am and make things much easier on parents.

Or kids could just wait for the school bus when it's darker.
But of course, the parents would then complain that their precious little child named Jonny will get abducted because it's dark outside or the bus driver will miss their stop and fail to pick up Jonny because it's dark outside.

BTW, I think we need to split the discussion of time zones into another thread, for the most part.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on December 01, 2015, 01:22:38 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on December 01, 2015, 11:06:43 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 01, 2015, 09:26:28 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 01, 2015, 09:15:01 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 02:34:44 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AMI'm almost 200 miles west of where the border between Eastern and Central should be...

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

Quote from: cabiness42 on November 30, 2015, 08:48:06 AM
We sacrifice a lot of morning sunlight (when lots of people are driving to work while kids are waiting on school buses) in order to get it in the evening.  It seems ridiculous to me.

Makes perfect sense to me. You can actually do things outside in the daylight when you get home from work. It's dark now when I get home, and it's only going to get worse for the next four weeks before it gets better.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 30, 2015, 07:43:56 AMEvery October and December there is a steady stream of complaints about getting up in the dark.  This would only become much more pervasive.

Getting up the dark doesn't bother me, because I'm just showering and getting dressed for work. Getting home in the dark bothers me.

In order to get useful time outside after a standard workday and commute, you would need sunrise to be after 9:00 am in the winter. 

I repeat: it's ridiculous to try to please people by shifting time around.  Don't like it?  Shift your work schedule.  Can't do that?  Get a different job.  Unless we go back to the days before standard time (and even then), there is no ideal for everyone.

The result of being on Eastern Time in Indiana is that, due to sunrises being so late, lots of schools start late.  My kids' school doesn't start until 9am in order to avoid having kids waiting for buses in the dark.  That puts a lot of parents in a bind because most of them have to be at work before 9am and have child care issues in the morning, which are more difficult to manage than child care issues in the afternoon.

If we were on Central Time, school could start at 8am and make things much easier on parents.

Or kids could just wait for the school bus when it's darker.
But of course, the parents would then complain that their precious little child named Jonny will get abducted because it's dark outside or the bus driver will miss their stop and fail to pick up Jonny because it's dark outside.

BTW, I think we need to split the discussion of time zones into another thread, for the most part.

There is another thread. I started it for this reason.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on December 01, 2015, 01:31:23 PM
Yeah, I've been wondering why people have been continuing to discuss time zones here rather than there: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16943.0
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 01, 2015, 05:12:22 PM
For that matter, I live just West of the Greenwich meridian, yet we have Central Europe Time (UTC+1)! Meaning we are in DST year-round, it also explains the f***ed-up schedules we have.

I know some rivers like Mississippi and Missouri reach far from their namesake states. Yet, in a recent roadtrip I was puzzled when I crossed Aragon river long after I left its namesake region (In fact I crossed it on the last bridge before it merges with the Ebro).

Go from Huesca (one of the smallest provincial capitals) to Madrid, when you reach the halfway point you won't have left Aragon yet (I found that point to be just East of Ariza).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on December 01, 2015, 07:53:00 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 01, 2015, 05:12:22 PMI know some rivers like Mississippi and Missouri reach far from their namesake states.

The states are named after the rivers, not the other way around.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: corco on December 01, 2015, 09:25:55 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

Wait, what?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: yanksfan6129 on December 01, 2015, 09:29:19 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

You would perform fellatio in exchange for the sun setting later?
Title: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on December 01, 2015, 09:40:00 PM
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on December 01, 2015, 09:29:19 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 30, 2015, 01:46:12 PM

Oh no you aren't. Unless you want to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone and be an hour different than across the river in Louisville. I hate Central Time. Passionately. I can't imagine how badly it would perform fellatio this time of year to get dark so early. It already gets dark too early this time of year in Eastern Time.

You would perform fellatio in exchange for the sun setting later?

What I am reading is that either the state of Indiana or the concept of Central Time would perform fellatio poorly to make the sun set earlier.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on December 01, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
I'm not really a fan of saying something "sucks." When I was growing up, that was not a phrase to be used in polite company. Not it's commonplace and that common usage, I think, contributes to the coarsening of society. Much like the terms "fart" and "turd" are so commonly used now, but they were equivalent to curse words in my household. I will frequently use euphemisms instead of coarse or vulgar language. I used to curse like a sailor in public. Now I don't. It's called "maturity."

It stinks now that it gets dark so early. It would stink even worse to get dark an hour earlier if I was in the Central time zone. Does that make my intended message any clearer?

Around here, the deer aren't as active in the mornings as they are in the evenings, thus I would rather drive to work in the dark than drive home from work.

And I've never bought the "waiting in the dark for a school bus is inherently dangerous" argument that so many people use.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: corco on December 01, 2015, 11:04:14 PM
Besides "fellatio" sounding Italian and exotic, how exactly is it less coarse than "sucks"? I'm genuinely curious about this - I typically test how appropriate a word is by how likely I would say it in front of my mother.

With that in mind, would you say "perform fellatio" to your mother before you say "this sucks?"

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on December 01, 2015, 11:19:22 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 01, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
It stinks now that it gets dark so early. It would stink even worse to get dark an hour earlier if I was in the Central time zone. Does that make my intended message any clearer?

Much.  And "fellatio" is a lot more graphic than "sucks" in 2015.

QuoteAnd I've never bought the "waiting in the dark for a school bus is inherently dangerous" argument that so many people use.

No, driving with cranky people who have hardly woken up in the dark is dangerous.

Regardless, I remain convinced very few people are going to be out getting busy in the yard all of a sudden when the sun sets at 4:56 and they get home at 5:30, particularly if they have anything else at all to do.  I just don't buy that this is much more than an emotional desire to feel less like it's winter, to which I say be an adult and get over it. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2015, 12:10:47 AM
Did you know that the NJ pine barrens is the most undeveloped space between DC and Boston.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: DandyDan on December 02, 2015, 07:56:44 AM
Isle Royale National Park is closer to Minnesota than it is to the UP of Michigan.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: noelbotevera on December 02, 2015, 03:34:27 PM
Erie Pennsylvania reaches farther north than Sandusky Ohio. Google Maps counts Cedar Point to be a part of Sandusky, but does not reach far enough to be farther north than Erie. Down here I copy and pasted the latitude and longitude for both, just to prove myself.


Sandusky OH:41.4467° N, 82.7092° W
Erie PA:42.1296° N, 80.0852° W
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: sandwalk on December 02, 2015, 03:50:11 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on December 02, 2015, 03:34:27 PM
Erie Pennsylvania reaches farther north than Sandusky Ohio. Google Maps counts Cedar Point to be a part of Sandusky, but does not reach far enough to be farther north than Erie. Down here I copy and pasted the latitude and longitude for both, just to prove myself.


Sandusky OH:41.4467° N, 82.7092° W
Erie PA:42.1296° N, 80.0852° W

Erie, PA is farther north than any land-based location in Ohio.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 02, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Heck, I live sightly North of the latitude you quoted for Erie, but there are some parts of my hometown that are below that line.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 01, 2015, 07:53:00 PM
The states are named after the rivers, not the other way around.

Then I should search for a new word, since also my region is named after the river...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on December 02, 2015, 04:09:16 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 02, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 01, 2015, 07:53:00 PM
The states are named after the rivers, not the other way around.

Then I should search for a new word, since also my region is named after the river...
Same with my area.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2015, 12:10:47 AM
Did you know that the NJ pine barrens is the most undeveloped space between DC and Boston.
Much of Ocean and Burlington Counties are undeveloped. With very low population density.  But the remainder is very suburban in character, or shore resort in the case of Ocean County
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:55:05 PM
Looking at a globe, it is amazing how far north Europe is compared to populated regions of North America. Labrador is same latitude as the UK.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 12:21:57 AM
Here are some:

The closest point in the United States to Europe is Hamlin, Maine.

Cairo, Illinois is closer to Memphis, Tennessee than to Chicago, Illinois.

The French Riviera is north of Boston.

Atlanta is closer to Chicago than Miami.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Zeffy on December 03, 2015, 06:15:28 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2015, 12:10:47 AM
Did you know that the NJ pine barrens is the most undeveloped space between DC and Boston.
Much of Ocean and Burlington Counties are undeveloped. With very low population density.  But the remainder is very suburban in character, or shore resort in the case of Ocean County

Both Suffolk and Warren counties have a lot of undeveloped space too.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on December 03, 2015, 07:50:04 AM

Quote from: Zeffy on December 03, 2015, 06:15:28 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2015, 12:10:47 AM
Did you know that the NJ pine barrens is the most undeveloped space between DC and Boston.
Much of Ocean and Burlington Counties are undeveloped. With very low population density.  But the remainder is very suburban in character, or shore resort in the case of Ocean County

Both Suffolk and Warren counties have a lot of undeveloped space too.

You mean Sussex?

I heard in college that the Pine Barrens represented the largest virgin forest in the East, but the true parameters changed every time I heard that.  Given that most eastern forests have been cleared at least once, there's probably something to that.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on December 03, 2015, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 03, 2015, 06:15:28 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2015, 12:10:47 AM
Did you know that the NJ pine barrens is the most undeveloped space between DC and Boston.
Much of Ocean and Burlington Counties are undeveloped. With very low population density.  But the remainder is very suburban in character, or shore resort in the case of Ocean County

Both Suffolk and Warren counties have a lot of undeveloped space too.
When I say undeveloped, it is close to wilderness as you can get in the East Coast. Not agricultural land like farms or ranches.. I assumed he meant Sussex County
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on December 03, 2015, 07:55:13 AM
Speaking of Sussex County.. It is the northern most County in NJ.. And Sussex means Southern or something like that
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 07:56:03 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 03, 2015, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 03, 2015, 06:15:28 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2015, 12:10:47 AM
Did you know that the NJ pine barrens is the most undeveloped space between DC and Boston.
Much of Ocean and Burlington Counties are undeveloped. With very low population density.  But the remainder is very suburban in character, or shore resort in the case of Ocean County

Both Suffolk and Warren counties have a lot of undeveloped space too.
When I say undeveloped, it is close to wilderness as you can get in the East Coast. Not agricultural land like farms or ranches.. I assumed he meant Sussex County

As close to wilderness you can get on the east coast is about 2-3 hours north of Boston :P

I'll grant you that that part of New Jersey is as close to wilderness as you can get along the I-95 corridor. There are some pretty undeveloped places in NH, VT, ME and eastern Upstate New York though and those places are still on the "east coast."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on December 03, 2015, 07:58:56 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 07:56:03 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 03, 2015, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 03, 2015, 06:15:28 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2015, 12:10:47 AM
Did you know that the NJ pine barrens is the most undeveloped space between DC and Boston.
Much of Ocean and Burlington Counties are undeveloped. With very low population density.  But the remainder is very suburban in character, or shore resort in the case of Ocean County

Both Suffolk and Warren counties have a lot of undeveloped space too.
When I say undeveloped, it is close to wilderness as you can get in the East Coast. Not agricultural land like farms or ranches.. I assumed he meant Sussex County

As close to wilderness you can get on the east coast is about 2-3 hours north of Boston

I'll grant you that that part of New Jersey is as close to wilderness as you can get along the I-95 corridor. There are some pretty undeveloped places in NH, VT, ME and eastern Upstate New York though and those places are still on the "east coast."
Yes of course.. I should have clarified East Coast meaning the Megalopolis. Because Okefenokee Swamp and Everglades are pretty much wilderness
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on December 03, 2015, 09:08:00 AM

Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 07:56:03 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 03, 2015, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 03, 2015, 06:15:28 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2015, 12:10:47 AM
Did you know that the NJ pine barrens is the most undeveloped space between DC and Boston.
Much of Ocean and Burlington Counties are undeveloped. With very low population density.  But the remainder is very suburban in character, or shore resort in the case of Ocean County

Both Suffolk and Warren counties have a lot of undeveloped space too.
When I say undeveloped, it is close to wilderness as you can get in the East Coast. Not agricultural land like farms or ranches.. I assumed he meant Sussex County

As close to wilderness you can get on the east coast is about 2-3 hours north of Boston :P

Most of which has been clear cut.  New England's (and the world's) economy was centered on wood as primary building material and fuel for a very long time.  Most of the forest was cut down to stumps.  Very little of what you find out there today is "old growth."  My understanding is that in the Pine Barrens this is not the case.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 03, 2015, 09:32:24 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 12:21:57 AM
Here are some:

The closest point in the United States to Europe is Hamlin, Maine.

Implied in my location. I'm 3,229 miles in a straight line from there. What is mind-blogging, is that Hamlin ME is also the closest point of the US to the Canary Islands, despite them being located across the ocean from Florida.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 03, 2015, 09:39:02 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 03, 2015, 09:08:00 AM

Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 07:56:03 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 03, 2015, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 03, 2015, 06:15:28 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2015, 12:10:47 AM
Did you know that the NJ pine barrens is the most undeveloped space between DC and Boston.
Much of Ocean and Burlington Counties are undeveloped. With very low population density.  But the remainder is very suburban in character, or shore resort in the case of Ocean County

Both Suffolk and Warren counties have a lot of undeveloped space too.
When I say undeveloped, it is close to wilderness as you can get in the East Coast. Not agricultural land like farms or ranches.. I assumed he meant Sussex County

As close to wilderness you can get on the east coast is about 2-3 hours north of Boston :P

Most of which has been clear cut.  New England's (and the world's) economy was centered on wood as primary building material and fuel for a very long time.  Most of the forest was cut down to stumps.  Very little of what you find out there today is "old growth."  My understanding is that in the Pine Barrens this is not the case.

While there is some old growth in the Pine Barrens also, nature generally will take care of the old growth also.  There's always forest fires...both intentional (controlled burns) and accidental, due to lightning, careless smoking, etc.  And of course, storms.  Superstorm Sandy knocked down quite a bit of trees, but many other smaller storms come in during the year, producing flooding and wind damage.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on December 03, 2015, 09:50:20 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 03, 2015, 09:39:02 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 03, 2015, 09:08:00 AM

Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 07:56:03 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 03, 2015, 07:53:24 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 03, 2015, 06:15:28 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:53:21 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on December 02, 2015, 12:10:47 AM
Did you know that the NJ pine barrens is the most undeveloped space between DC and Boston.
Much of Ocean and Burlington Counties are undeveloped. With very low population density.  But the remainder is very suburban in character, or shore resort in the case of Ocean County

Both Suffolk and Warren counties have a lot of undeveloped space too.
When I say undeveloped, it is close to wilderness as you can get in the East Coast. Not agricultural land like farms or ranches.. I assumed he meant Sussex County

As close to wilderness you can get on the east coast is about 2-3 hours north of Boston

Most of which has been clear cut.  New England's (and the world's) economy was centered on wood as primary building material and fuel for a very long time.  Most of the forest was cut down to stumps.  Very little of what you find out there today is "old growth."  My understanding is that in the Pine Barrens this is not the case.

While there is some old growth in the Pine Barrens also, nature generally will take care of the old growth also.  There's always forest fires...both intentional (controlled burns) and accidental, due to lightning, careless smoking, etc.  And of course, storms.  Superstorm Sandy knocked down quite a bit of trees, but many other smaller storms come in during the year, producing flooding and wind damage.
In colonial times there was some iron mining in pine barrens.. But not much agriculture other than cranberries or blueberries
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jbnati27 on December 03, 2015, 10:27:05 AM
Bristol VA is closer to several other other state capitals (Charleston WV, Nashville TN, Raleigh NC, Atlanta GA, Frankfort KY, Columbia SC) than it is its own capital of Richmond.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on December 03, 2015, 11:21:36 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 03, 2015, 09:32:24 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 12:21:57 AM
Here are some:

The closest point in the United States to Europe is Hamlin, Maine.

Implied in my location. I'm 3,229 miles in a straight line from there. What is mind-blogging, is that Hamlin ME is also the closest point of the US to the Canary Islands, despite them being located across the ocean from Florida.

And so, presumably, Maine is also the closest state to Africa?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 11:27:30 AM
Quote from: empirestate on December 03, 2015, 11:21:36 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 03, 2015, 09:32:24 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 12:21:57 AM
Here are some:

The closest point in the United States to Europe is Hamlin, Maine.

Implied in my location. I'm 3,229 miles in a straight line from there. What is mind-blogging, is that Hamlin ME is also the closest point of the US to the Canary Islands, despite them being located across the ocean from Florida.

And so, presumably, Maine is also the closest state to Africa?

It is. The closeness that we share with the rest of the world interesting.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on December 03, 2015, 08:05:30 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 02, 2015, 11:55:05 PM
Looking at a globe, it is amazing how far north Europe is compared to populated regions of North America. Labrador is same latitude as the UK.

This map really nails it home for me:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsites.williams.edu%2Fthea228%2Ffiles%2F2011%2F08%2FOverlay-of-Euro-cities-onto-NA.jpg&hash=8476b180b9a1d6086a6ae907d06f6470d605702a)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 08:12:39 PM
You also wouldn't think that the coast of France is as far from Saudi Arabia as Seattle is from Miami.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on December 03, 2015, 08:58:58 PM
It's about 150 miles shorter from New York to LA than it is to San Francisco even though I-80 runs directly from NY to SF.

Cumberland, MD is closer to Pittsburgh than Baltimore.

The southernmost point of Canada is on the same latitude as New Britain, CT

Miami is farther west than Buffalo, NY and Pittsburgh despite being a coastal city and Philadelphians referring to Pittsburgh as "The Midwest"

New York City is closer to Hartford and Trenton than to Albany.

Pensacola is 150 miles closer to Houston than to Miami
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 03, 2015, 09:00:33 PM
Hempstead New York has a population bigger Detroit but its population is as big as San Francisco.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on December 03, 2015, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: jbnati27 on December 03, 2015, 10:27:05 AM
Bristol VA is closer to several other other state capitals (Charleston WV, Nashville TN, Raleigh NC, Atlanta GA, Frankfort KY, Columbia SC) than it is its own capital of Richmond.

Have also heard this said about the three West Virginia eastern panhandle counties. Closer to Harrisburg, Trenton, Annapolis, Richmond and possibly Dover than to Charleston.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on December 04, 2015, 01:54:36 AM
The border between Pennsylvania and Delaware is an arc*, with a radius of 12 miles centered on the courthouse in New Castle, DE.

More Pennsylvania: in the 18th century, Connecticut claimed about 7200 miles of land inside PA as Westmoreland County, Connecticut. This had some support from England, but not from Pennsylvanians, and a set of skirmishes (the "Pennamite Wars") erupted. Connecticut eventually yielded its claim. The westernmost extent of the land was about due north from Baltimore.

* not a perfect circle... a series of arcs feathered together, because surveying
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: roadman65 on December 04, 2015, 02:05:56 AM
From Pensacola to Key West is as far as driving across Texas, or close to it.

St. John's, Newfoundland is east of Bermuda.

The Atlantic Ocean is much narrower than the US between the easternmost part of Brazil and the westernmost part of the Continent of Africa.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on December 04, 2015, 11:35:41 AM
Quote from: kurumi on December 04, 2015, 01:54:36 AM
More Pennsylvania: in the 18th century, Connecticut claimed about 7200 miles of land inside PA as Westmoreland County, Connecticut. This had some support from England, but not from Pennsylvanians, and a set of skirmishes (the "Pennamite Wars") erupted. Connecticut eventually yielded its claim. The westernmost extent of the land was about due north from Baltimore.

The "Connecticut Gore" has something to do with this, I believe.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on December 04, 2015, 11:42:50 AM

Quote from: empirestate on December 04, 2015, 11:35:41 AM
Quote from: kurumi on December 04, 2015, 01:54:36 AM
More Pennsylvania: in the 18th century, Connecticut claimed about 7200 miles of land inside PA as Westmoreland County, Connecticut. This had some support from England, but not from Pennsylvanians, and a set of skirmishes (the "Pennamite Wars") erupted. Connecticut eventually yielded its claim. The westernmost extent of the land was about due north from Baltimore.

The "Connecticut Gore" has something to do with this, I believe.

And the Connecticut Western Reserve in Ohio, settled by noted Nutmegger Moses Cleaveland, among others.  This land was of course cleft (get it?) from Connecticut in exchange for forgiveness of war debts, as was the practice with states maintaining sea-to-sea claims.
Title: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 6a on December 05, 2015, 08:07:23 AM
Quote from: kurumi on December 04, 2015, 01:54:36 AM
The border between Pennsylvania and Delaware is an arc*, with a radius of 12 miles centered on the courthouse in New Castle, DE.


* not a perfect circle... a series of arcs feathered together, because surveying

Stuff like this fascinates me. It was the attempt to finally survey the 12 mile arc (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wedge_(border)) that led to the Mason Dixon Line.

Another favorite is the border between the Carolinas. (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/24/opinion/sunday/how-the-carolinas-fixed-their-blurred-lines.html?_r=0) I prefer to think early surveyors were drunk off their ass the whole time, although reality is probably more like only half the time ;)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TravelingBethelite on December 05, 2015, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 03, 2015, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: jbnati27 on December 03, 2015, 10:27:05 AM
Bristol VA is closer to several other other state capitals (Charleston WV, Nashville TN, Raleigh NC, Atlanta GA, Frankfort KY, Columbia SC) than it is its own capital of Richmond.

Have also heard this said about the three West Virginia eastern panhandle counties. Closer to Harrisburg, Trenton, Annapolis, Richmond and possibly Dover than to Charleston.

On this same vein, more than half of Massachusetts are closer to three other state capitals (Hartford, CT, Albany, NY, and Providence, RI, than they are to Boston.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on December 05, 2015, 05:23:10 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on December 05, 2015, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 03, 2015, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: jbnati27 on December 03, 2015, 10:27:05 AM
Bristol VA is closer to several other other state capitals (Charleston WV, Nashville TN, Raleigh NC, Atlanta GA, Frankfort KY, Columbia SC) than it is its own capital of Richmond.

Have also heard this said about the three West Virginia eastern panhandle counties. Closer to Harrisburg, Trenton, Annapolis, Richmond and possibly Dover than to Charleston.

On this same vein, more than half of Massachusetts are closer to three other state capitals (Hartford, CT, Albany, NY, and Providence, RI, than they are to Boston.

A map that shows which capital is closest to a given location is called a Voronoi map. Here's one for the US.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkgVe9TC.png&hash=7e3da9d20aca928b97c90b57ad992da69700ff14)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 05, 2015, 07:08:26 PM
http://www.visitmammoth.com/about-mammoth/directions/

Mammoth lakes is closer to The San Joaquin Valley but Mammoth Lakes get counted as Southern California simply because they attract Los Angeles residents going on vacation to the mountains.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SD Mapman on December 05, 2015, 07:27:19 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 05, 2015, 05:23:10 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on December 05, 2015, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 03, 2015, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: jbnati27 on December 03, 2015, 10:27:05 AM
Bristol VA is closer to several other other state capitals (Charleston WV, Nashville TN, Raleigh NC, Atlanta GA, Frankfort KY, Columbia SC) than it is its own capital of Richmond.

Have also heard this said about the three West Virginia eastern panhandle counties. Closer to Harrisburg, Trenton, Annapolis, Richmond and possibly Dover than to Charleston.

On this same vein, more than half of Massachusetts are closer to three other state capitals (Hartford, CT, Albany, NY, and Providence, RI, than they are to Boston.

A map that shows which capital is closest to a given location is called a Voronoi map. Here's one for the US.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkgVe9TC.png&hash=7e3da9d20aca928b97c90b57ad992da69700ff14)
Is Bismarck supposed to be on the Canadian border?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on December 05, 2015, 07:48:19 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on December 05, 2015, 07:27:19 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 05, 2015, 05:23:10 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on December 05, 2015, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 03, 2015, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: jbnati27 on December 03, 2015, 10:27:05 AM
Bristol VA is closer to several other other state capitals (Charleston WV, Nashville TN, Raleigh NC, Atlanta GA, Frankfort KY, Columbia SC) than it is its own capital of Richmond.

Have also heard this said about the three West Virginia eastern panhandle counties. Closer to Harrisburg, Trenton, Annapolis, Richmond and possibly Dover than to Charleston.

On this same vein, more than half of Massachusetts are closer to three other state capitals (Hartford, CT, Albany, NY, and Providence, RI, than they are to Boston.

A map that shows which capital is closest to a given location is called a Voronoi map. Here's one for the US.
Is Bismarck supposed to be on the Canadian border?

Good catch. Here's one that seems a bit better.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.brobible.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F05%2Fvoronoi-map.jpg&hash=b8f64e19dbd023bc01f6d55776cc557c778b317a)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webfil on December 05, 2015, 08:18:06 PM
Following Voronoï polygons, the majority of the population of the province of Québec (57% or 4,680,984 people) live in an area where the closest capital is Montpellier, VT.

27% of the population (2,224,200 people) live closer to Québec City than any other capital.

The largest area of capital proximity on the territory of the province (land + water) is Québec city (501,203.9 km²), but Iqaluit is not too far behind (455,797.6 km²)

Also, most of the Labrador is closer either to Charlottetown, Fredericton or Iqaluit rather than Saint John's (NL).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on December 05, 2015, 09:45:08 PM
Wish that map had a little more detail. It makes my area look much closer to the Frankfort/Charleston line than it really is. Frankfort can be reached in a little less than two hours while it takes nearly three to get to Charleston.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: oscar on December 06, 2015, 12:04:46 AM
Quote from: bing101 on December 05, 2015, 07:08:26 PM
http://www.visitmammoth.com/about-mammoth/directions/

Mammoth lakes is closer to The San Joaquin Valley but Mammoth Lakes get counted as Southern California simply because they attract Los Angeles residents going on vacation to the mountains.

That, plus the mountains north and west of Mammoth (with many passes closed in the winter, and winter weather sometimes also restricting travel on the higher elevations of US 395) make it easier for skiers to reach from the south than from the Valley and the Bay Area.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Duke87 on December 06, 2015, 12:16:32 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 05, 2015, 09:45:08 PM
Wish that map had a little more detail. It makes my area look much closer to the Frankfort/Charleston line than it really is. Frankfort can be reached in a little less than two hours while it takes nearly three to get to Charleston.

That logically puts you roughly half an hour west of the line. Which is fairly close.

Meanwhile the map shows which capital is closest as the crow flies, not which is the fastest to drive to. Much of Long Island may be closest to Hartford, but the fastest capital for them to drive to (traffic notwithstanding) is Trenton because Robert Moses was unable to get his Sound Crossing built.


It's especially interesting when you get cases where the closest capital is not even in an adjacent state. A piece of Virginia is closer to Dover than any other state capital. And a tiny sliver of Alabama is closest to Baton Rouge.

Perhaps even more impressive given how narrow a space the line has to squeeze through to make this true, there is NOT any part of Connecticut that is closer to Trenton than Hartford, nor is there any part of New Jersey that's closer to Hartford than Trenton. The line misses the southwestern tip of Connecticut by 2-3 miles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on December 06, 2015, 03:12:18 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on December 06, 2015, 12:16:32 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 05, 2015, 09:45:08 PM
Wish that map had a little more detail. It makes my area look much closer to the Frankfort/Charleston line than it really is. Frankfort can be reached in a little less than two hours while it takes nearly three to get to Charleston.

That logically puts you roughly half an hour west of the line. Which is fairly close.

Meanwhile the map shows which capital is closest as the crow flies, not which is the fastest to drive to. Much of Long Island may be closest to Hartford, but the fastest capital for them to drive to (traffic notwithstanding) is Trenton because Robert Moses was unable to get his Sound Crossing built.


It's especially interesting when you get cases where the closest capital is not even in an adjacent state. A piece of Virginia is closer to Dover than any other state capital. And a tiny sliver of Alabama is closest to Baton Rouge.

Perhaps even more impressive given how narrow a space the line has to squeeze through to make this true, there is NOT any part of Connecticut that is closer to Trenton than Hartford, nor is there any part of New Jersey that's closer to Hartford than Trenton. The line misses the southwestern tip of Connecticut by 2-3 miles.


My limited experience leads me to believe most desktops can't do the crunching at this point to easily run a national driving-time calculation quickly.  Fascinating (and probably more useful) study, but much more data-intensive than a simple proximity game.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: roadman65 on December 06, 2015, 11:32:02 PM
I used to like when the St. Louis Cardinals were in the National League East while Cincinnati Reds were in the National League West. 

As we know that Cincy is well east of St.Louie in geographics, but MLB did not see it that way until the Central Division was invented after Miami and Colorado got into the NL and so did Tampa Bay and Arizona for the AL which caused the divisions to be rearranged.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on December 07, 2015, 12:16:54 AM
The Atlanta Braves were in the NL West for a while as well.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: DandyDan on December 07, 2015, 05:49:45 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 06, 2015, 11:32:02 PM
I used to like when the St. Louis Cardinals were in the National League East while Cincinnati Reds were in the National League West. 

As we know that Cincy is well east of St.Louie in geographics, but MLB did not see it that way until the Central Division was invented after Miami and Colorado got into the NL and so did Tampa Bay and Arizona for the AL which caused the divisions to be rearranged.

Chicago Cubs were also in the East division despite being farther west than Cincinnati and Atlanta.  I thought this was because then-Cubs owner Phillip Wrigley had a lot of pull in the NL office and demanded that Chicago be in the same division as New York and got the St. Louis ownership to go along.  Then the 1993 expansion came along and they were going to finally have it all make geographical sense, but then the Chicago Tribune (which then owned the Cubs) didn't want it because that meant fewer people could watch games on WGN, or some such nonsense.  It didn't matter in the end, because 1994 became the first 3 division year.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on December 07, 2015, 09:00:57 AM
Prior to 2002, the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints were in the NFC West.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on December 07, 2015, 09:40:10 AM
And to this day, the Cowboys are in the NFC East despite Dallas being the 4th farthest west city in the NFC.  And the Rams are in the NFC West despite  St. Louis being east of an NFC East city and on the same longitude as an NFC South city.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 07, 2015, 09:51:08 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 07, 2015, 09:40:10 AM
And to this day, the Cowboys are in the NFC East despite Dallas being the 4th farthest west city in the NFC.  And the Rams are in the NFC West despite  St. Louis being east of an NFC East city and on the same longitude as an NFC South city.

As far as they Cowboys go, it was a collective agreement that they remain in the NFC East at least in part due to the strong rivalries that exist between them and the Giants, Redskins & Eagles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on December 07, 2015, 10:06:25 AM
What was the reasoning behind the Braves being in the NL West? Was it a holdover from when they were in Milwaukee?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on December 07, 2015, 12:13:42 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 07, 2015, 10:06:25 AM
What was the reasoning behind the Braves being in the NL West? Was it a holdover from when they were in Milwaukee?

No, when the NL split into divisions in 1969, the Braves were already in Atlanta.  The six farthest west teams were LA, SD, SF, HOU, STL, and CHC.  With the unbalanced schedule, teams played 90 games vs their own division and 72 games vs the other division.  The Cubs and Cardinals did not want extra games in the Pacific Time Zone, so the pulled rank, so to speak, and got themselves put in the East, with CIN and ATL being the next two most western teams getting shipped to the West.

In the American League, the Washington Senators moved to Texas between the 1971-72 seasons and switched from East to West.  I have no idea why Milwaukee was switched from West to East instead of the White Sox. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: roadman65 on December 07, 2015, 12:31:48 PM
Milwaukee now is in the NL is it not?  When the four expansion teams changed the divisions in the 90's, did they move the Brewers across the league boundary to balance it out?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on December 07, 2015, 12:43:13 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 07, 2015, 12:31:48 PM
Milwaukee now is in the NL is it not?  When the four expansion teams changed the divisions in the 90's, did they move the Brewers across the league boundary to balance it out?
The Brewers moved so there wouldn't be interleague play every day of the season by having 16 NL and 14 AL teams.  That change was undone in 2013 by the Astros moving to the AL West.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 07, 2015, 05:48:59 PM
Heck, all of this remind me of the third tier of association football in Spain (Named Segunda B), which is split into four groups of 20 teams each. Groups 2, 3 and 4 usually consist of teams from the North, East and South respectively, but group 1 gets messed up for some seasons, sometimes combining teams from Galicia (in the Northwest), Madrid and the Canary Islands.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mgk920 on December 07, 2015, 10:48:16 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 07, 2015, 12:31:48 PM
Milwaukee now is in the NL is it not?  When the four expansion teams changed the divisions in the 90's, did they move the Brewers across the league boundary to balance it out?

IIRC, the Brewers were moved to the National league in the early 00s.   More recently, the Houston Astros were moved from the National league to the American league to balance the leagues at 15 teams each in three five-team divisions and at least one interleague series at all times.

Mike
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on December 07, 2015, 11:01:27 PM
^^ Brewers moved to the NL starting in the 1998 season.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Duke87 on December 07, 2015, 11:05:43 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on December 07, 2015, 12:31:48 PM
Milwaukee now is in the NL is it not?  When the four expansion teams changed the divisions in the 90's, did they move the Brewers across the league boundary to balance it out?

In 1993, the Rockies entered the NL west and the Marlins entered the NL east. No other movements occurred. That one was simple!

The movements that happened for the 1998 season were thus:
- Devil Rays added to AL east
- Tigers moved from AL east to AL central
- Brewers moved from AL central to NL central
- Diamondbacks added to NL west

As for why MLB did not simply add the Devil Rays to the NL east and keep every existing team in its existing division, I don't know. It would have not resulted in any greater imbalance than what was actually done.

I suspect the reason has to do with both the Yankees and the Red Sox having their spring training in the general area and having somewhat of a fanbase there (expat northeasterners or otherwise). Placing the Tampa expansion franchise in the same division as these teams allowed it to draw larger crowds when they came to town, which would have been a rare occurrence if the Rays were an NL team.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: renegade on December 08, 2015, 09:23:47 PM
Somehow, this thread got waaay off-topic ...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on December 09, 2015, 11:43:29 AM
Huntsville, AL is closer to Atlanta, GA than Montgomery, AL.
Huntsville, AL is also closer to Knoxville, TN than Memphis, TN.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on December 09, 2015, 04:40:05 PM

Quote from: freebrickproductions on December 09, 2015, 11:43:29 AM
Huntsville, AL is closer to Atlanta, GA than [to] Montgomery, AL.
Huntsville, AL is also closer to Knoxville, TN than [is] Memphis, TN.

Have I parsed this correctly? It seems to be an intriguing example of parallel sentence structure having non-parallel meanings.


iPhone
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on December 09, 2015, 05:56:05 PM
Let me take a stab at this: Despite being in the same state as Pittsburgh, Philadelphia is closer to Hartford, CT.

Philadelphia to Hartford: 177 miles
Philadelphia to Pittsburgh: 258 miles

Of course the distance I'm quoting from the Distance Calculator tool at indo(dot)com is straight-line mileage from point A to B.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on December 09, 2015, 07:03:49 PM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 09, 2015, 05:56:05 PM
Let me take a stab at this: Despite being in the same state as Pittsburgh, Philadelphia is closer to Hartford, CT.

Philadelphia to Hartford: 177 miles
Philadelphia to Pittsburgh: 258 miles

Of course the distance I'm quoting from the Distance Calculator tool at indo(dot)com is straight-line mileage from point A to B.

By that same token, Pittsburgh is also closer to Detroit (211 miles) than it is to Philly.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on December 11, 2015, 11:27:01 AM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 09, 2015, 05:56:05 PM
Let me take a stab at this: Despite being in the same state as Pittsburgh, Philadelphia is closer to Hartford, CT.

Philadelphia to Hartford: 177 miles
Philadelphia to Pittsburgh: 258 miles

Of course the distance I'm quoting from the Distance Calculator tool at indo(dot)com is straight-line mileage from point A to B.

I think if you've driven either of those routes (or are just familiar with the northeast) this isn't counterintuitive.  Pennsylvania's a long state for these parts.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on December 19, 2015, 09:17:50 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 11, 2015, 11:27:01 AM

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on December 09, 2015, 05:56:05 PM
Let me take a stab at this: Despite being in the same state as Pittsburgh, Philadelphia is closer to Hartford, CT.

Philadelphia to Hartford: 177 miles
Philadelphia to Pittsburgh: 258 miles

Of course the distance I'm quoting from the Distance Calculator tool at indo(dot)com is straight-line mileage from point A to B.

I think if you've driven either of those routes (or are just familiar with the northeast) this isn't counterintuitive.  Pennsylvania's a long state for these parts.

Same with NY state.  NY City is closer to Portland, ME, Montreal (by 1 mile), and Richmond, VA than Buffalo, and that's cutting through PA too.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: halork on December 20, 2015, 05:51:06 AM
I remember once being told that Ironwood, MI was closer to 5 other state capitals than to Lansing (We're talking driving distance here). Checking this out, it looks like Madison, St. Paul, Des Moines, and Springfield are definitely closer, and Bismarck is nearly equidistant. The provincial capital of Winnipeg is also closer.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 24, 2015, 04:05:54 PM
San Francisco is close to the same size as Vallejo, CA if you look at land area  Yet San Francisco is only 46 square Miles.   Vallejo is 30 sq miles
Yet San Francisco has managed to carry 8 times the population of Vallejo.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallejo,_California (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallejo,_California)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco)




Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on December 31, 2015, 09:15:05 AM
The closest Walmart to Perryton, TX is in Kansas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on January 02, 2016, 02:56:29 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 31, 2015, 09:15:05 AM
The closest Walmart to Perryton, TX is in Kansas.

It looks like the nearest Target to parts of New Hampshire is in New York.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 02, 2016, 09:37:39 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 02, 2016, 02:56:29 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 31, 2015, 09:15:05 AM
The closest Walmart to Perryton, TX is in Kansas.

It looks like the nearest Target to parts of New Hampshire is in New York.

It would have to be northern parts, as there's one in Keene.


iPhone
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on January 02, 2016, 09:54:52 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 02, 2016, 09:37:39 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 02, 2016, 02:56:29 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 31, 2015, 09:15:05 AM
The closest Walmart to Perryton, TX is in Kansas.

It looks like the nearest Target to parts of New Hampshire is in New York.

It would have to be northern parts, as there's one in Keene.


iPhone

I tried a bunch of random northern NH towns and still got the Maine Targets as one of the closest. The Plattsburgh, NY Target came close for some of the northern towns on the CT River though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Desert Man on January 04, 2016, 11:21:07 AM
The Palm Springs area is closer to the Mexican border: Indio-Coachella is 85 miles from Mexicali, than it is to downtown Los Angeles (126 miles). It appears San Diego is closer to us on the map and San Clemente is the closest beach, then I may be wrong. And both the Santa Barbara and Bakersfield areas are as close to L.A. like the Riverside-San Bernardino area (60-90 mile range).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on January 05, 2016, 01:53:34 PM

Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 02, 2016, 09:54:52 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 02, 2016, 09:37:39 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 02, 2016, 02:56:29 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 31, 2015, 09:15:05 AM
The closest Walmart to Perryton, TX is in Kansas.

It looks like the nearest Target to parts of New Hampshire is in New York.

It would have to be northern parts, as there's one in Keene.


iPhone

I tried a bunch of random northern NH towns and still got the Maine Targets as one of the closest. The Plattsburgh, NY Target came close for some of the northern towns on the CT River though.

Since I made that post I've been meaning to get back and figure out why I thought places along the Connecticut River were closest to the Plattsburgh store, but seeing how it hasn't happened already, I don't think I'm going to. I hereby retire my commitment to this premise.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on January 05, 2016, 03:23:34 PM
By car, Huntsville, AL is closer to Iuka, MS than it is to Guin, AL.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dcbjms on January 05, 2016, 07:07:51 PM
Fisher's Island, NY, is closer to Westerly, RI, than anywhere else in New York - interestingly, though, all the ferries to Fisher's Island come from Connecticut and it feels so much like CT that the island should be part of that state than NY.  In fact, Fisher's Island used to be part of Connecticut (as part of the Town of New London); somehow during the 19th century (IIRC) it got moved to NY for God-knows-what-reason.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Mapmikey on January 05, 2016, 07:59:20 PM
Memphis TN is closer to Falls City NE than to Mountain City TN
Mountain City is about the same distance to Buffalo NY as it is to Memphis

Mike
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on January 05, 2016, 08:58:49 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on January 05, 2016, 07:59:20 PM
Memphis TN is closer to Falls City NE than to Mountain City TN
Mountain City is about the same distance to Buffalo NY as it is to Memphis

Mike

I once drove from Nashville to Asheville (try saying THAT one aloud), TN is a deceptively long state.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on January 05, 2016, 09:18:28 PM
There are 2 closer Walmarts in Magog and Sherbrooke, PQ to Newport, VT, than the nearest VT Walmart in St. Albans
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 05, 2016, 10:08:10 PM
Quote from: dcbjms on January 05, 2016, 07:07:51 PM
Fisher's Island, NY, is closer to Westerly, RI, than anywhere else in New York - interestingly, though, all the ferries to Fisher's Island come from Connecticut and it feels so much like CT that the island should be part of that state than NY.  In fact, Fisher's Island used to be part of Connecticut (as part of the Town of New London); somehow during the 19th century (IIRC) it got moved to NY for God-knows-what-reason.

Yes, and its ZIP code is 06390, beginning with a '0' as only New England and New Jersey do. It is, as I recall, the only place in the U.S. where the first digit of a ZIP code isn't constrained by the state boundary; all other states have the same first digit everywhere (in New York it's '1').
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on January 05, 2016, 11:05:12 PM
^^ Puerto Rico also has zip codes beginning with "0".  The second digit there is also "0".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 06, 2016, 09:27:46 AM
Quote from: Big John on January 05, 2016, 11:05:12 PM
^^ Puerto Rico also has zip codes beginning with "0".  The second digit there is also "0".

Yes, and the Virgin Islands. I was using the word "only" loosely. :-) (Perhaps I meant just the incorporated U.S.–oh crap, what's the ZIP code for Palmyra Atoll?)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mgk920 on January 06, 2016, 10:07:36 AM
There are some rural addresses in far southwestern Wisconsin that are served by post offices in Illinois and have ZIP codes that start with '6' (Wisconsin-based post offices start with '5').  Yes, it has caused occasional problems with driving licensing and voting.

Mike
Title: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Pete from Boston on January 06, 2016, 10:13:08 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 05, 2016, 08:58:49 PM
Quote from: Mapmikey on January 05, 2016, 07:59:20 PM
Memphis TN is closer to Falls City NE than to Mountain City TN
Mountain City is about the same distance to Buffalo NY as it is to Memphis

Mike

I once drove from Nashville to Asheville (try saying THAT one aloud), TN is a deceptively long state.

As a youngster, my traveling companion and I, staying at the first motel inside the Tennessee/North Carolina border, decided on a whim that to be in Tennessee and not visit Graceland would be a shame.  It did not occur to us that this was in the same ballpark as going to Chicago or Florida from there.  That was a long day on the road.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dcbjms on January 06, 2016, 01:17:19 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 06, 2016, 09:27:46 AM
Quote from: Big John on January 05, 2016, 11:05:12 PM
^^ Puerto Rico also has zip codes beginning with "0".  The second digit there is also "0".

Yes, and the Virgin Islands. I was using the word "only" loosely. :-) (Perhaps I meant just the incorporated U.S.–oh crap, what's the ZIP code for Palmyra Atoll?)

96898. ;)  Not that you'd use it, in any case - it's a wildlife refuge.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on January 06, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
Decatur, AL and Huntsville, AL actually have their city limits touching each other, even though the parts of the city that people refer too when talking about each one are on opposite ends of I-565.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 06, 2016, 05:51:38 PM
Continuing with postcodes ('ZIP codes'), it also happens in Spain. I know a couple towns in Zaragoza province (where postcodes start with 50) that have postcodes beginning with 22, which belongs to Huesca province. The same towns have also the 974 phone prefix ('area code') instead of the usual 976.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on January 06, 2016, 06:20:07 PM
There is no public road access to Estcourt Station, Maine without travelling through Canada. Phones use Quebec's Area Code and power is provided by Hydro Quebec. Municipal services are also supplied by the Municipality of Lac Pohenegamook, Quebec. Wonder if they have a Zip Code or is mail delivered by Canada Post?

http://tinyurl.com/hey9wl7
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 06, 2016, 06:24:00 PM

Quote from: mgk920 on January 06, 2016, 10:07:36 AM
There are some rural addresses in far southwestern Wisconsin that are served by post offices in Illinois and have ZIP codes that start with '6' (Wisconsin-based post offices start with '5').  Yes, it has caused occasional problems with driving licensing and voting.

Mike

But am I right that these ZIP codes serve towns in Illinois? In other words, you're sending mail to Anytown, IL 6xxxx, not Anytown, WI 6xxxx?

In Fishers Island's case, you're actually sending mail that includes the string "..., NY 0..." which I believe is unique.


iPhone
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dcbjms on January 07, 2016, 11:33:10 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on January 06, 2016, 06:20:07 PM
There is no public road access to Estcourt Station, Maine without travelling through Canada. Phones use Quebec's Area Code and power is provided by Hydro Quebec. Municipal services are also supplied by the Municipality of Lac Pohenegamook, Quebec. Wonder if they have a Zip Code or is mail delivered by Canada Post?

http://tinyurl.com/hey9wl7

What's more, most people there speak their own dialect of French which is nothing like either Québec French or Acadian French.  It's one of the last remaining communities in New England where French is still spoken, and only because it's that close to the border.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on January 07, 2016, 12:59:25 PM
Interesting, one would think they'd be like Québec French, considering that they're essentially a part of Québec that gets harassed by customs due to an arbitrary line (on the other hand, they get to have cheap gas).  And yes, US customs makes everyone report when crossing the line, even though only logging trucks can continue further (the border is at the start of the logging road; everyone has to go there and turn around).  Extremely limited border hours can make this problematic.  There was a story of a guy who got arrested just for getting gas.  The border even cuts some houses in half.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dcbjms on January 08, 2016, 09:36:09 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 07, 2016, 12:59:25 PM
Interesting, one would think they'd be like Québec French, considering that they're essentially a part of Québec that gets harassed by customs due to an arbitrary line (on the other hand, they get to have cheap gas).

Well, technically what they speak is what is called a "transitional" variety, however this particular community (and all the others, mainly in northeastern New Brunswick and adjacent areas of Québec and Maine) claims that they are a distinct people all their own.  Notwithstanding the fact that Québec French itself is very diverse, with its own dialectal variation (for example - traditionally, before the 1950s (and to a large extent still holds today), you could tell where in Québec a person lived with several different criteria, including how one pronounced the "R"; if the person lived west of the St.-Maurice River, one would pronounce the "R" like a trill, Italian or Spanish style, whereas if the person lived east of the St.-Maurice River, one would pronounce the "R" in a manner closer to (but not quite exactly) the European French pronunciation, with the sole exception being the Cantons-de-l'Est, where their "R" was much closer to a New England "R").  So whether or not this particular region has a dialect of its own or not is heavily disputed, even among linguists.

Quote from: vdeane on January 07, 2016, 12:59:25 PMAnd yes, US customs makes everyone report when crossing the line, even though only logging trucks can continue further (the border is at the start of the logging road; everyone has to go there and turn around).  Extremely limited border hours can make this problematic.  There was a story of a guy who got arrested just for getting gas.  The border even cuts some houses in half.

I guess they should revive the Republic of Madawaska, making it more than just a ceremonial title of the Mayor of Edmunston, NB and similar to the Conch Republic, if not more so. :p  Hey, if it worked for Key West, why not far northern Maine and adjacent areas of Canada?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on January 08, 2016, 10:07:27 AM
Quote from: dcbjms on January 08, 2016, 09:36:09 AM
I guess they should revive the Republic of Madawaska, making it more than just a ceremonial title of the Mayor of Edmunston, NB and similar to the Conch Republic, if not more so. :p  Hey, if it worked for Key West, why not far northern Maine and adjacent areas of Canada?

I was in Edmundston, New Brunswick during the Acadian World Congress a year ago and they certainly didn't let an international border get in the way.......cultural events and a party atmosphere on both sides!

Many people on the US side have dual citizenship. The local hospital is in Edmundston......not in the US. 

http://tourismedmundston.com/en/informations.php?cat=History+and+Culture

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on January 08, 2016, 11:45:29 AM
Said by mtantillo during the Quebec City road meet: Montreal is closer by road to Washington, DC than it is to Kegaska, QC. Quebec City is a slightly closer to Kegaska than to Washington but it still takes more time to drive from there to the former (according to Google Maps).

Like Maine's road exclave mentioned upthread (Estcourt Station), St. Regis, QC (part of the Akwesasne reserve) is only accessible by road from NY.

I wonder who delivers mail to the adresses on Canusa Avenue in Derby Line, VT (the road itself is in Canada, maintained by MTQ and past the customs station).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: noelbotevera on January 08, 2016, 03:32:41 PM
It looks really deceptive, but it's 86 miles from Harrisburg to State College. You'd expect it to be more than that, if you looked at a map.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 08, 2016, 06:48:41 PM
Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on January 08, 2016, 11:45:29 AM
Like Maine's road exclave mentioned upthread (Estcourt Station), St. Regis, QC (part of the Akwesasne reserve) is only accessible by road from NY.

And since it's Mohawk territory on both sides of the border, you can cross there without reporting to customs (but you can't get anywhere else in Quebec since it's on a peninsula).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on January 08, 2016, 08:22:38 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on January 06, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
Decatur, AL and Huntsville, AL actually have their city limits touching each other, even though the parts of the city that people refer too when talking about each one are on opposite ends of I-565.
Huntsville, AL's city limits also touch Athens, AL's city limits.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mrsman on January 10, 2016, 08:32:13 AM
Quote from: Mike D boy on January 04, 2016, 11:21:07 AM
The Palm Springs area is closer to the Mexican border: Indio-Coachella is 85 miles from Mexicali, than it is to downtown Los Angeles (126 miles). It appears San Diego is closer to us on the map and San Clemente is the closest beach, then I may be wrong. And both the Santa Barbara and Bakersfield areas are as close to L.A. like the Riverside-San Bernardino area (60-90 mile range).

Just doing a quick check via Google Maps directions: (which link the centers of each cities, more or less)

S. Bernardino - LA: 61.3 miles
Riv - LA: 58.5 miles

S Barbara - LA: 95.1 miles
Bakersfield - LA: 112 miles

There is a difference of about 30 miles between SB/Riv and SBarba/Bkrsfld.  This is not that close.  SBern and Riv are considered commutable to LA (and even have Metrolink stations), SB and Bak are not.



Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 6a on January 10, 2016, 05:49:02 PM

Quote from: ghYHZ on January 06, 2016, 06:20:07 PM
There is no public road access to Estcourt Station, Maine without travelling through Canada. Phones use Quebec's Area Code and power is provided by Hydro Quebec. Municipal services are also supplied by the Municipality of Lac Pohenegamook, Quebec. Wonder if they have a Zip Code or is mail delivered by Canada Post?

http://tinyurl.com/hey9wl7
This also happens with Hyder, AK. Residents there use the 250 area code of BC as well as the Pacific time zone, and the RCMP responds to police calls.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on January 13, 2016, 07:59:56 PM
Seattle is closer to Vancouver (145 mi) than it is to Portland (173 mi).

Also, I find it amusing that I commute across the 48th parallel on a near-daily basis. My community college and the regional hospital (where I was born) are both located just north of the parallel (the hospital is actually right on it and has a skybridge over it) and my bus transfer is just south of the line.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on January 13, 2016, 08:14:57 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 06, 2016, 10:07:36 AM
There are some rural addresses in far southwestern Wisconsin that are served by post offices in Illinois and have ZIP codes that start with '6' (Wisconsin-based post offices start with '5').  Yes, it has caused occasional problems with driving licensing and voting.

Mike
Kaskaskia IL gets its mail from Ste Genevieve MO.. It's on the west side of Mississippi river thanks to change in river course
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on January 13, 2016, 08:15:53 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 06, 2016, 09:27:46 AM
Quote from: Big John on January 05, 2016, 11:05:12 PM
^^ Puerto Rico also has zip codes beginning with "0".  The second digit there is also "0".

Yes, and the Virgin Islands. I was using the word "only" loosely. :-) (Perhaps I meant just the incorporated U.S.–oh crap, what's the ZIP code for Palmyra Atoll?)
Virgin and loosely. LOL
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: rawmustard on January 14, 2016, 10:27:25 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on January 13, 2016, 08:14:57 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 06, 2016, 10:07:36 AM
There are some rural addresses in far southwestern Wisconsin that are served by post offices in Illinois and have ZIP codes that start with '6' (Wisconsin-based post offices start with '5').  Yes, it has caused occasional problems with driving licensing and voting.

Mike
Kaskaskia IL gets its mail from Ste Genevieve MO.. It's on the west side of Mississippi river thanks to change in river course

As far as I can tell, there isn't a similar case for the "Lost Peninsula" of Michigan. At least according to the Postal Service's website, addresses on the Michigan side are served by a rural route from Erie, while the Toledo side is served by a city route. (Address numbering on the peninsula continues from Toledo's grid.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 14, 2016, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: Bruce on January 13, 2016, 07:59:56 PMAlso, I find it amusing that I commute across the 48th parallel on a near-daily basis. My community college and the regional hospital (where I was born) are both located just north of the parallel (the hospital is actually right on it and has a skybridge over it) and my bus transfer is just south of the line.

I used to commute across the 42nd parallel, but not now. Also, did I mention that I live, like most of you including those that believe the term only means the Americas, in the Western hemisphere? :sombrero:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cpzilliacus on January 16, 2016, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 07:56:03 AM
I'll grant you that that part of New Jersey is as close to wilderness as you can get along the I-95 corridor. There are some pretty undeveloped places in NH, VT, ME and eastern Upstate New York though and those places are still on the "east coast."

I respectfully disagree.

The most-desolate parts of the I-95 corridor are in South Carolina (between I-26 (Exit 86) and I-20 at Florence (Exit 160) (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/33.3158982,-80.5444193/34.1921228,-79.843947/@34.1859127,-79.8453373,15z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0)), and in Maine (between Maine 43 at Old Town (Exit 197) and U.S. 1 at Houlton (Exit 302) (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Interstate+95,+Old+Town,+ME+04468/46.1384354,-67.8410862/@46.1353165,-67.8465009,15z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x89a3684ac9a44491:0xe2b89c18ad2262db!2m2!1d-68.7024623!2d44.9963645!1m0!3e0)).

I-95 between Old Town and Houlton was originally constructed as a Super-2 (with plenty of signs and pavement markings warning drivers to keep right and reminding them that they were on a two lane undivided highway, but I understand that there were plenty of head-on crashes anyway).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: national highway 1 on January 17, 2016, 01:33:19 AM
Broken Hill, New South Wales is closer to Adelaide, South Australia (517km/321mi) than it is to Sydney, its state's capital (1159km/720mi). Because Broken Hill's first direct rail link was only to Adelaide, it adopted Central Standard Time (UTC+9:30) like neighbouring South Australia, unlike the rest of New South Wales which uses Eastern Standard Time (UTC+10:00).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: wolfiefrick on January 21, 2016, 03:02:04 PM
Chinese time zones confuzzle me. There's still only one time zone in China and it's based upon the time in Beijing. The people in western China see the sun rise around 10 am and it sets at 10 pm.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 21, 2016, 05:16:01 PM
Same to me. In Kashgar (Western Xinjiang, in the far West of China) on Winter solstice the sun doesn't rise until 10 am. That in theory, in reality Xinjiang has adopted its unofficial time two hours behind Beijing, so the sun rises at 8 am (and sets at 6 pm instead of 8 pm).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: roadman65 on January 21, 2016, 09:19:57 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 16, 2016, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 07:56:03 AM
I'll grant you that that part of New Jersey is as close to wilderness as you can get along the I-95 corridor. There are some pretty undeveloped places in NH, VT, ME and eastern Upstate New York though and those places are still on the "east coast."

I respectfully disagree.

The most-desolate parts of the I-95 corridor are in South Carolina (between I-26 (Exit 86) and I-20 at Florence (Exit 160) (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/33.3158982,-80.5444193/34.1921228,-79.843947/@34.1859127,-79.8453373,15z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0)), and in Maine (between Maine 43 at Old Town (Exit 197) and U.S. 1 at Houlton (Exit 302) (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Interstate+95,+Old+Town,+ME+04468/46.1384354,-67.8410862/@46.1353165,-67.8465009,15z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x89a3684ac9a44491:0xe2b89c18ad2262db!2m2!1d-68.7024623!2d44.9963645!1m0!3e0)).

I-95 between Old Town and Houlton was originally constructed as a Super-2 (with plenty of signs and pavement markings warning drivers to keep right and reminding them that they were on a two lane undivided highway, but I understand that there were plenty of head-on crashes anyway).
Actually desolate does not begin until after Ridgeland, SC and all the way to just outside of Jacksonville, FL. 

I-95 in rural Jasper County, SC, all of Georgia, and Nassau and part of Duval County in Florida is the most desolate drive of I-95 south of Kittery, ME.   North of Kittery, I cannot say as I never been on it except a small piece near Bangor, and I cannot remember what it looked like as I was fairly young.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 22, 2016, 09:26:33 AM

Quote from: roadman65 on January 21, 2016, 09:19:57 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 16, 2016, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 07:56:03 AM
I'll grant you that that part of New Jersey is as close to wilderness as you can get along the I-95 corridor. There are some pretty undeveloped places in NH, VT, ME and eastern Upstate New York though and those places are still on the "east coast."

I respectfully disagree.

The most-desolate parts of the I-95 corridor are in South Carolina (between I-26 (Exit 86) and I-20 at Florence (Exit 160) (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/33.3158982,-80.5444193/34.1921228,-79.843947/@34.1859127,-79.8453373,15z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0)), and in Maine (between Maine 43 at Old Town (Exit 197) and U.S. 1 at Houlton (Exit 302) (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Interstate+95,+Old+Town,+ME+04468/46.1384354,-67.8410862/@46.1353165,-67.8465009,15z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x89a3684ac9a44491:0xe2b89c18ad2262db!2m2!1d-68.7024623!2d44.9963645!1m0!3e0)).

I-95 between Old Town and Houlton was originally constructed as a Super-2 (with plenty of signs and pavement markings warning drivers to keep right and reminding them that they were on a two lane undivided highway, but I understand that there were plenty of head-on crashes anyway).
Actually desolate does not begin until after Ridgeland, SC and all the way to just outside of Jacksonville, FL. 

I-95 in rural Jasper County, SC, all of Georgia, and Nassau and part of Duval County in Florida is the most desolate drive of I-95 south of Kittery, ME.   North of Kittery, I cannot say as I never been on it except a small piece near Bangor, and I cannot remember what it looked like as I was fairly young.

There's a difference between being desolate and being close to wilderness. I've also heard that the NJ pine barrens are the least-developed part of the Northeast Corridor (which, also, is not the same as the East Coast). The question then becomes whether the desolate sections in the Carolinas and northern Maine are also close to undisturbed wilderness, or are they previously clear-cut stands of second-growth forest, very much the result of human intervention?


iPhone
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: D-Dey65 on May 15, 2016, 10:57:20 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on December 19, 2015, 09:17:50 PM
Same with NY state.  NY City is closer to Portland, ME, Montreal (by 1 mile), and Richmond, VA than Buffalo, and that's cutting through PA too.
Funny you should mention Richmond vs. Buffalo. Back in November 2014 when that blizzard hit Buffalo (Knife), I overheard my aunt talking to my uncle and she was worried that I was going to drive through Buffalo on the way home.

This woman has no sense of direction, and she knows it.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 15, 2016, 11:49:47 AM
By car it's about 832 miles from Pensacola, FL to Key West, FL which is slightly longer than the 820 miles it would take you to get to Columbus, OH.  That 832 miles isn't far off from the 878 miles it takes to cross I-10 through the entirety of Texas....odd indeed when you consider Florida doesn't seem that big and how much back tracking you really do.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NE2 on May 15, 2016, 11:50:55 AM
OH MY GOD LOS ANGELES IS CLOSER TO TIJUANA THAN IT IS TO NEW YORK CITY HOW FUCKING WEIRD
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CobaltYoshi27 on May 15, 2016, 01:22:53 PM
San Diego, California, is directly due west of Dallas and Fort Worth, Texas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on May 15, 2016, 01:32:35 PM
Not exactly US road, although a lot of US bound traffic:
Atlantic end of Panama canal is actually to the west from Pacific end.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on May 15, 2016, 04:21:12 PM
Russia reaches so far East, its Easternmost lands are actually among the Westernmost on Earth (as seen from Greenwich).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on May 15, 2016, 09:50:37 PM
There is a section of Northern Nevada as well as a part of Wyoming NORTH of Cheyenne that is considered by the Nielsen Ratings to be a part of the Denver, CO TV Market.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: paulthemapguy on May 16, 2016, 11:06:55 PM
Lake Tahoe's longitude is west of that of Los Angeles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on May 16, 2016, 11:41:27 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 21, 2016, 09:19:57 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 16, 2016, 03:51:14 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on December 03, 2015, 07:56:03 AM
I'll grant you that that part of New Jersey is as close to wilderness as you can get along the I-95 corridor. There are some pretty undeveloped places in NH, VT, ME and eastern Upstate New York though and those places are still on the "east coast."

I respectfully disagree.

The most-desolate parts of the I-95 corridor are in South Carolina (between I-26 (Exit 86) and I-20 at Florence (Exit 160) (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/33.3158982,-80.5444193/34.1921228,-79.843947/@34.1859127,-79.8453373,15z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0)), and in Maine (between Maine 43 at Old Town (Exit 197) and U.S. 1 at Houlton (Exit 302) (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Interstate+95,+Old+Town,+ME+04468/46.1384354,-67.8410862/@46.1353165,-67.8465009,15z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!1m1!1s0x89a3684ac9a44491:0xe2b89c18ad2262db!2m2!1d-68.7024623!2d44.9963645!1m0!3e0)).

I-95 between Old Town and Houlton was originally constructed as a Super-2 (with plenty of signs and pavement markings warning drivers to keep right and reminding them that they were on a two lane undivided highway, but I understand that there were plenty of head-on crashes anyway).
Actually desolate does not begin until after Ridgeland, SC and all the way to just outside of Jacksonville, FL. 

I-95 in rural Jasper County, SC, all of Georgia, and Nassau and part of Duval County in Florida is the most desolate drive of I-95 south of Kittery, ME.   North of Kittery, I cannot say as I never been on it except a small piece near Bangor, and I cannot remember what it looked like as I was fairly young.
That part of 95 skirts Western Savannah suburbs and Brunswick.. There are lots of gas stations at different exits.  It is relatively desolate but all 6 lanes

The area in SC has long distance between exits and not many services. All 4 lanes too
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: wxfree on May 17, 2016, 12:54:21 AM
Quote from: kalvado on May 15, 2016, 01:32:35 PM
Not exactly US road, although a lot of US bound traffic:
Atlantic end of Panama canal is actually to the west from Pacific end.

And the water on the Pacific side is higher.  Even though the two sides aren't far apart, the connection by water is thousands of miles long, so it isn't unusual that the water is unlevel over that distance.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on May 17, 2016, 01:11:04 AM
It's actually closer and shorter timewise for me to drive from central CT to Philly than to Montauk, Long Island, despite Montauk being only 65 miles away.

Florida and Oregon are the only two coastal states whose farthest reaches from the (ocean) coast extend into another time zone.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 17, 2016, 07:17:52 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on May 17, 2016, 01:11:04 AM
Florida and Oregon are the only two coastal states whose farthest reaches from the (ocean) coast extend into another time zone.

And as a result, for an hour each year, a Floridian and an Oregonian can correctly observe the same local time as each other.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 81 on May 17, 2016, 10:02:17 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 17, 2016, 07:17:52 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on May 17, 2016, 01:11:04 AM
Florida and Oregon are the only two coastal states whose farthest reaches from the (ocean) coast extend into another time zone.

And as a result, for an hour each year, a Floridian and an Oregonian can correctly observe the same local time as each other.

Wait, isn't Texas another one? Alaska?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ftballfan on May 17, 2016, 08:24:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 03, 2015, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: jbnati27 on December 03, 2015, 10:27:05 AM
Bristol VA is closer to several other other state capitals (Charleston WV, Nashville TN, Raleigh NC, Atlanta GA, Frankfort KY, Columbia SC) than it is its own capital of Richmond.

Have also heard this said about the three West Virginia eastern panhandle counties. Closer to Harrisburg, Trenton, Annapolis, Richmond and possibly Dover than to Charleston.
Bristol VA is also closer to Columbus, OH than Richmond, VA
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ftballfan on May 17, 2016, 08:41:55 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on May 15, 2016, 09:50:37 PM
There is a section of Northern Nevada as well as a part of Wyoming NORTH of Cheyenne that is considered by the Nielsen Ratings to be a part of the Denver, CO TV Market.

Partly because Denver's always had a full set of network affiliates while the two Wyoming markets (Casper and Cheyenne) were usually short at least one network historically. Also, Sheridan, WY is in the Rapid City, SD TV market despite being closer to Casper, WY and Billings, MT
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: paulthemapguy on May 17, 2016, 11:33:57 PM
Here's something odd, though it's kind of a human construct.  I don't know who decided this, but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is completely in the eastern time zone except for the counties that border Wisconsin.  I don't know why they didn't put the boundary along the state line, but they put it one county into Michigan instead.  For that reason, as I took a trip to the Porcupine Mountains last July, my buddy and I sat outside and watched the sunset over Lake Superior after reaching our hotel--just after 10pm.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on May 18, 2016, 04:05:56 AM
I visited Tarifa, Spain last year (by car from the Netherlands). It is the southernmost point of mainland Spain. Besides the fact that many people think Gibraltar is the southernmost point, it's actually farther south than Algiers and Tunis. It's also at the same latitude as northern Iraq and northern Pakistan.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on May 18, 2016, 05:55:41 AM
Quote from: Chris on May 18, 2016, 04:05:56 AMIt's also at the same latitude as northern Iraq and northern Pakistan.
And the VA/NC border, or thereabouts.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mhh on May 18, 2016, 07:00:53 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 17, 2016, 11:33:57 PM
Here's something odd, though it's kind of a human construct.  I don't know who decided this, but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is completely in the eastern time zone except for the counties that border Wisconsin.  I don't know why they didn't put the boundary along the state line, but they put it one county into Michigan instead.  For that reason, as I took a trip to the Porcupine Mountains last July, my buddy and I sat outside and watched the sunset over Lake Superior after reaching our hotel--just after 10pm.

Those western counties have closer economic ties to Milwaukee and Minneapolis/St. Paul than to Detroit, hence the different time zone.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 18, 2016, 10:13:05 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 17, 2016, 11:33:57 PM
Here's something odd, though it's kind of a human construct.  I don't know who decided this, but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is completely in the eastern time zone except for the counties that border Wisconsin.  I don't know why they didn't put the boundary along the state line, but they put it one county into Michigan instead.  For that reason, as I took a trip to the Porcupine Mountains last July, my buddy and I sat outside and watched the sunset over Lake Superior after reaching our hotel--just after 10pm.

Of course, that's also a function of just being so far north. Even down in Western NY, the July twilight lasts well after 9pm. But nothing prepared me for the effects of this when I visited the UK and Ireland–although I had seen the late summer sun in places like Alaska, I found it very striking when it happens in a place that isn't geographically remote. Going about my business in bustling cities with daylight still plentiful until well past 10:00 was confusing to me, especially combined with the relatively early closing hours of most businesses there.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on May 18, 2016, 02:18:52 PM
Summer evenings are pleasant in Scandinavia because the sun sets so late, if it sets at all. I was driving through southern Norway in 2014, and even though I was like 500 miles south of the Arctic Circle, the sky never turned completely dark.

Due to high latitude, northern places in Norway are very far east in longitude. Vardø in northern Norway is farther east than Istanbul. Norway is only 700 miles from Canada, from Svalbard to Ellesmere Island.

Europeans are also often not aware how large Svalbard is. It is twice the area of Belgium and only somewhat smaller than Ireland. It is also farther north than people realize (if they are aware of it at all), it's 660 kilometers from the North Cape. And people actually live on Svalbard, the capital of Longyearbyen has a population of 2,000, which is located 850 kilometers north of the North Cape.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: paulthemapguy on May 18, 2016, 10:24:07 PM
Quote from: mhh on May 18, 2016, 07:00:53 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 17, 2016, 11:33:57 PM
Here's something odd, though it's kind of a human construct.  I don't know who decided this, but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is completely in the eastern time zone except for the counties that border Wisconsin.  I don't know why they didn't put the boundary along the state line, but they put it one county into Michigan instead.  For that reason, as I took a trip to the Porcupine Mountains last July, my buddy and I sat outside and watched the sunset over Lake Superior after reaching our hotel--just after 10pm.

Those western counties have closer economic ties to Milwaukee and Minneapolis/St. Paul than to Detroit, hence the different time zone.

Highly debatable...but I won't debate it.

Quote from: empirestate on May 18, 2016, 10:13:05 AM
Of course, that's also a function of just being so far north. Even down in Western NY, the July twilight lasts well after 9pm. But nothing prepared me for the effects of this when I visited the UK and Ireland–although I had seen the late summer sun in places like Alaska, I found it very striking when it happens in a place that isn't geographically remote. Going about my business in bustling cities with daylight still plentiful until well past 10:00 was confusing to me, especially combined with the relatively early closing hours of most businesses there.

Yep yep!

Quote from: Chris on May 18, 2016, 02:18:52 PM
Summer evenings are pleasant in Scandinavia because the sun sets so late, if it sets at all. I was driving through southern Norway in 2014, and even though I was like 500 miles south of the Arctic Circle, the sky never turned completely dark.

Due to high latitude, northern places in Norway are very far east in longitude. Vardø in northern Norway is farther east than Istanbul. Norway is only 700 miles from Canada, from Svalbard to Ellesmere Island.

Europeans are also often not aware how large Svalbard is. It is twice the area of Belgium and only somewhat smaller than Ireland. It is also farther north than people realize (if they are aware of it at all), it's 660 kilometers from the North Cape. And people actually live on Svalbard, the capital of Longyearbyen has a population of 2,000, which is located 850 kilometers north of the North Cape.

This actually made my brain flip out a little bit.  The northern reaches are around 70°N latitude.  After fooling around a bit with google maps, I found that a degree from east to west at 70°N latitude is only about 24 miles.  Mercator projection messes with your mind and yet we just take it as based fact of what the world looks like.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bulldog1979 on May 19, 2016, 04:36:13 AM
Quote from: paulthemapguy on May 17, 2016, 11:33:57 PM
Here's something odd, though it's kind of a human construct.  I don't know who decided this, but the Upper Peninsula of Michigan is completely in the eastern time zone except for the counties that border Wisconsin.  I don't know why they didn't put the boundary along the state line, but they put it one county into Michigan instead.  For that reason, as I took a trip to the Porcupine Mountains last July, my buddy and I sat outside and watched the sunset over Lake Superior after reaching our hotel--just after 10pm.

Also, in the days when we had a later start time for Sunday alcohol sales in the state, the statewide start time was 12 noon Eastern Time. That meant the four UP counties on Central Time could legally sell alcohol on Sunday mornings at 11 a.m. local time, or the same start time as Wisconsin. (In the past few years, the state has moved to allow Sunday morning alcohol sales if local municipalities don't disapprove and the liquor license holder buys an additional permit for such sales.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SteveG1988 on June 11, 2016, 03:02:54 AM
Did you know that in the UK there are days when it never goes from twilight to night. The sun has to be 18 degrees below the horizon before "night" happens in an astronomical way. the UK is northern enough to where it doesn't happen

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on June 11, 2016, 06:48:32 AM
^^ Yes ;)

At 3am last night, I realized the time when the light through the window was enough to notice. It hadn't got fully dark, but it did get fairly dark (partially due to cloud cover) so when nautical twilight started just before 3am (partially due to cloud cover).

In the US, you will get it in Alaska (and more), and should get it at the 49th on midsummers. Seattle has night-proper every night, but Vancouver has a month where the sun doesn't go below 18 degrees.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 11, 2016, 09:38:55 AM
Quote from: english si on June 11, 2016, 06:48:32 AM
^^ Yes ;)

At 3am last night, I realized the time when the light through the window was enough to notice. It hadn't got fully dark, but it did get fairly dark (partially due to cloud cover) so when nautical twilight started just before 3am (partially due to cloud cover).

In the US, you will get it in Alaska (and more), and should get it at the 49th on midsummers. Seattle has night-proper every night, but Vancouver has a month where the sun doesn't go below 18 degrees.

I'm fairly certain that also applied to Bellingham up in Washingto right on the British Columbia border. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on June 11, 2016, 12:33:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 11, 2016, 09:38:55 AMI'm fairly certain that also applied to Bellingham up in Washingto right on the British Columbia border.
Yes, but it doesn't get that far south of the 49th parallel. Bellingham has 2 weeks (14th to 27th of June) without night-proper, but Victoria, BC has at least 40 minutes of night-proper every day.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on June 12, 2016, 06:33:30 PM
Back when Yemen was split, South Yemen reached farther North than North Yemen.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on June 13, 2016, 12:31:50 PM
West Liberty, Ky., is actually well northeast of Liberty, Ky.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tckma on June 13, 2016, 03:11:10 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 13, 2016, 12:31:50 PM
West Liberty, Ky., is actually well northeast of Liberty, Ky.

In Massachusetts, the towns of Marlborough, Westborough, Southborough, and Northborough are not, geographically speaking, in those places.  The whole area used to be part of Marlborough.  I think Westborough broke off first, at which point it was indeed west, but is now mainly south, of Marlborough.  I used to know more about this when I actually lived there.

Also, to quote the cover a live touring album from a particular Canadian band I enjoy: "Canada is a big country.  St. John's[, NL] is closer to Paris than [it is to] Victoria[, BC]."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on June 13, 2016, 04:04:22 PM
Quote from: tckma on June 13, 2016, 03:11:10 PM
Also, to quote the cover a live touring album from a particular Canadian band I enjoy: "Canada is a big country.  St. John's[, NL] is closer to Paris than [it is to] Victoria[, BC]."

Russian second biggest city, Leningrad, is closer to Bangor, ME than easternmost russian cities - Vladivostok or Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LED-PKC,+LED-VVO,+LED-bgr,+LED+-JFK
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on June 13, 2016, 04:21:25 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 13, 2016, 04:04:22 PM
Quote from: tckma on June 13, 2016, 03:11:10 PM
Also, to quote the cover a live touring album from a particular Canadian band I enjoy: "Canada is a big country.  St. John's[, NL] is closer to Paris than [it is to] Victoria[, BC]."

Russian second biggest city, Leningrad, is closer to Bangor, ME than easternmost russian cities - Vladivostok or Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LED-PKC,+LED-VVO,+LED-bgr,+LED+-JFK

They changed it back to St. Petersburg in the 90s.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Duke87 on June 13, 2016, 10:44:48 PM
Quote from: english si on June 11, 2016, 12:33:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 11, 2016, 09:38:55 AMI'm fairly certain that also applied to Bellingham up in Washingto right on the British Columbia border.
Yes, but it doesn't get that far south of the 49th parallel. Bellingham has 2 weeks (14th to 27th of June) without night-proper, but Victoria, BC has at least 40 minutes of night-proper every day.

I'm thinking that with the Arctic Circle at about 66.5 degrees north, the latitude above which nights where the sun does not get more than 18 degrees below the horizon can occur would logically be 66.5 - 18 = 48.5. So there's a strip of the continental US about 30 miles wide that fits the bill.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on June 13, 2016, 11:41:06 PM
Quote from: Big John on June 13, 2016, 04:21:25 PM
Quote from: kalvado on June 13, 2016, 04:04:22 PM
Quote from: tckma on June 13, 2016, 03:11:10 PM
Also, to quote the cover a live touring album from a particular Canadian band I enjoy: "Canada is a big country.  St. John's[, NL] is closer to Paris than [it is to] Victoria[, BC]."

Russian second biggest city, Leningrad, is closer to Bangor, ME than easternmost russian cities - Vladivostok or Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LED-PKC,+LED-VVO,+LED-bgr,+LED+-JFK

They changed it back to St. Petersburg in the 90s.
I have They Might be Giants  "now it's Istanbul not Constantinople.." running thru my head
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mgk920 on June 15, 2016, 04:58:00 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on June 13, 2016, 10:44:48 PM
Quote from: english si on June 11, 2016, 12:33:43 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 11, 2016, 09:38:55 AMI'm fairly certain that also applied to Bellingham up in Washingto right on the British Columbia border.
Yes, but it doesn't get that far south of the 49th parallel. Bellingham has 2 weeks (14th to 27th of June) without night-proper, but Victoria, BC has at least 40 minutes of night-proper every day.

I'm thinking that with the Arctic Circle at about 66.5 degrees north, the latitude above which nights where the sun does not get more than 18 degrees below the horizon can occur would logically be 66.5 - 18 = 48.5. So there's a strip of the continental US about 30 miles wide that fits the bill.

There are a few days every year when the International Space Station does not go into earth's shadow, its orbit goes sufficiently north and south (maximum 51.6442 degrees) that this improper night thing keeps it out of Earth's shadow and visible in overhead passes at local midnight in places where those extremes of its orbit are normally visible on the ground when it is in sunlight at other times of the night.

Mike
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on June 23, 2016, 11:30:10 PM
Quote from: english si on June 11, 2016, 06:48:32 AM
^^ Yes ;)

At 3am last night, I realized the time when the light through the window was enough to notice. It hadn't got fully dark, but it did get fairly dark (partially due to cloud cover) so when nautical twilight started just before 3am (partially due to cloud cover).

In the US, you will get it in Alaska (and more), and should get it at the 49th on midsummers. Seattle has night-proper every night, but Vancouver has a month where the sun doesn't go below 18 degrees.

Watching the news from Britain right now, and I'm struck that it's not yet 4:30 and nearly full daylight.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on June 24, 2016, 02:31:12 AM
Quote from: empirestate on June 23, 2016, 11:30:10 PMWatching the news from Britain right now, and I'm struck that it's not yet 4:30 and nearly full daylight.
Yep. It started getting lighter here in the south at about 0340. The video from Sunderland in this article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/counting-begins-in-the-eu-referendum-as-sunderland-races-to-be-t/) was live at about half 10 (it was rather dark here by then).

The Orkney results at 0006 BST were given 10 minutes after streetlights were turned on.

The presenter on the BBC just said "x is joining me early in the morning. Sorry, 7.30 on a June morning isn't early morning is it."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on June 27, 2016, 06:46:17 PM
I think some people know Key West is closer to Havana then it is to Miami but most are unaware that Alert NU near the Northern tip of Canada is closer to Moscow than it is to Ottawa.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on June 27, 2016, 07:02:26 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 07, 2015, 09:00:57 AM
Prior to 2002, the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints were in the NFC West.
While the Arizona Cardinals were in the NFC east.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2016, 07:48:25 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 27, 2016, 07:02:26 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 07, 2015, 09:00:57 AM
Prior to 2002, the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints were in the NFC West.
While the Arizona Cardinals were in the NFC east.

Or the Bucs being in the NFC Central....  The Cowboys are still in the NFC East largely due to historic rivalries...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SignGeek101 on June 27, 2016, 07:57:00 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on June 11, 2016, 03:02:54 AM
Did you know that in the UK there are days when it never goes from twilight to night. The sun has to be 18 degrees below the horizon before "night" happens in an astronomical way. the UK is northern enough to where it doesn't happen



Not just the UK. Where I live, right now at least, there is no "night". In the winter, the sun only gets to 17 degrees at solar noon.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on June 28, 2016, 10:50:25 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 27, 2016, 07:48:25 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 27, 2016, 07:02:26 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 07, 2015, 09:00:57 AM
Prior to 2002, the Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers and New Orleans Saints were in the NFC West.
While the Arizona Cardinals were in the NFC east.

Or the Bucs being in the NFC Central....  The Cowboys are still in the NFC East largely due to historic rivalries...

And prior to 1995, the Braves and Reds were in the NL West, and the Cubs and Cardinals were in the NL East.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SteveG1988 on June 29, 2016, 02:36:36 PM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tckma on June 29, 2016, 03:52:12 PM
Border straddling (of the US and Canada)!

Estcourt Station, Maine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estcourt_Station,_Maine) is far more easily accessible from Canada than it is from the US, but, it's only a few houses and a gas station.
Similarly, there is:

* The town of Hyder, Alaska (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyder,_Alaska)
* The Northwest Angle of Minnesota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Angle)
* Point Roberts, Washington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington)
* and a few others I haven't mentioned here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93United_States_border#Boundary_divisions).


There's also Canusa Street (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canusa_Street), the centerline of which is part of the US-Canada border (i.e. the street is in both countries).  A similar situation occurs at the Haskell Free Library and Opera House (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_Free_Library_and_Opera_House), part of which is in Derby Line, Vermont, USA and part of which is in Stanstead, Québec, Canada. 

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on June 29, 2016, 08:45:20 PM
Quote from: tckma on June 29, 2016, 03:52:12 PM
Border straddling (of the US and Canada)!

Estcourt Station, Maine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estcourt_Station,_Maine) is far more easily accessible from Canada than it is from the US, but, it's only a few houses and a gas station.
Similarly, there is:

* The town of Hyder, Alaska (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyder,_Alaska)
* The Northwest Angle of Minnesota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwest_Angle)
* Point Roberts, Washington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington)
* and a few others I haven't mentioned here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada%E2%80%93United_States_border#Boundary_divisions).


There's also Canusa Street (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canusa_Street), the centerline of which is part of the US-Canada border (i.e. the street is in both countries).  A similar situation occurs at the Haskell Free Library and Opera House (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_Free_Library_and_Opera_House), part of which is in Derby Line, Vermont, USA and part of which is in Stanstead, Québec, Canada.

There's also Aroostock Valley Country Club.  The course and clubhouse is in New Brunswick, and the parking lot and pro shop are in Maine.  A wayward shot on a couple of holes would put you across the border, and the only way to access the course is from the US.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:05:41 PM
If you were to take the world's tallest tree (Hyperion) and plop it at sea level, it would still be taller than the highest point in Florida.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2016, 11:10:21 PM
Quote from: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:05:41 PM
If you were to take the world's tallest tree (Hyperion) and plop it at sea level, it would still tower over the highest point in Florida by over 60 feet.

Actually it's only 34 feet...Britton Hill is 345 feet above sea level.


Here's one....the largest lake by surface area west of the Great Lakes was Tulare Lake located in San Joaquin Valley in California and completely dried up in the mid-20th century.  Back in those days water diversion and reclaiming land was considered a good thing.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2016, 11:10:21 PM
Quote from: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:05:41 PM
If you were to take the world's tallest tree (Hyperion) and plop it at sea level, it would still tower over the highest point in Florida by over 60 feet.

Actually it's only 34 feet...Britton Hill is 345 feet above sea level.


Here's one....the largest lake by surface area west of the Great Lakes was Tulare Lake located in San Joaquin Valley in California and completely dried up in the mid-20th century.  Back in those days water diversion and reclaiming land was considered a good thing.
You're right...fixed original post.  Thanks for looking out.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2016, 11:34:21 PM
Quote from: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2016, 11:10:21 PM
Quote from: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:05:41 PM
If you were to take the world's tallest tree (Hyperion) and plop it at sea level, it would still tower over the highest point in Florida by over 60 feet.

Actually it's only 34 feet...Britton Hill is 345 feet above sea level.


Here's one....the largest lake by surface area west of the Great Lakes was Tulare Lake located in San Joaquin Valley in California and completely dried up in the mid-20th century.  Back in those days water diversion and reclaiming land was considered a good thing.
You're right...fixed original post.  Thanks for looking out.

No worries, the main facet of the fact is certainly true which is strange in of itself.  Speaking of strange, Florida despite being a low elevation actually has several highways....OR ridges; namely the Brooksville Ridge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida%27s_highest_points

I always thought it was interesting that I could find switch backs out and around the Green Swamp if you knew where to look.  Another weird fact that is semi-geographic about Florida is that it has a large mining industry...in this case Phosphate which is among the largest sources in the world in Bone Valley.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on July 20, 2016, 01:00:24 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2016, 11:34:21 PM
Quote from: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2016, 11:10:21 PM
Quote from: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:05:41 PM
If you were to take the world's tallest tree (Hyperion) and plop it at sea level, it would still tower over the highest point in Florida by over 60 feet.

Actually it's only 34 feet...Britton Hill is 345 feet above sea level.


Here's one....the largest lake by surface area west of the Great Lakes was Tulare Lake located in San Joaquin Valley in California and completely dried up in the mid-20th century.  Back in those days water diversion and reclaiming land was considered a good thing.
You're right...fixed original post.  Thanks for looking out.

No worries, the main facet of the fact is certainly true which is strange in of itself.  Speaking of strange, Florida despite being a low elevation actually has several highways....OR ridges; namely the Brooksville Ridge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida%27s_highest_points

I always thought it was interesting that I could find switch backs out and around the Green Swamp if you knew where to look.  Another weird fact that is semi-geographic about Florida is that it has a large mining industry...in this case Phosphate which is among the largest sources in the world in Bone Valley.
Don't forget Mt. Dora :nod:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2016, 10:00:31 AM
Quote from: chays on July 20, 2016, 01:00:24 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2016, 11:34:21 PM
Quote from: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2016, 11:10:21 PM
Quote from: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:05:41 PM
If you were to take the world's tallest tree (Hyperion) and plop it at sea level, it would still tower over the highest point in Florida by over 60 feet.

Actually it's only 34 feet...Britton Hill is 345 feet above sea level.


Here's one....the largest lake by surface area west of the Great Lakes was Tulare Lake located in San Joaquin Valley in California and completely dried up in the mid-20th century.  Back in those days water diversion and reclaiming land was considered a good thing.
You're right...fixed original post.  Thanks for looking out.

No worries, the main facet of the fact is certainly true which is strange in of itself.  Speaking of strange, Florida despite being a low elevation actually has several highways....OR ridges; namely the Brooksville Ridge:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Florida%27s_highest_points

I always thought it was interesting that I could find switch backs out and around the Green Swamp if you knew where to look.  Another weird fact that is semi-geographic about Florida is that it has a large mining industry...in this case Phosphate which is among the largest sources in the world in Bone Valley.
Don't forget Mt. Dora :nod:

There is actually a really decent view in Clermont along FL50 by which you can see downtown Orlando directly east on a clear day:

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.5468564,-81.7170686,3a,90y,90h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQGHNpT0HWXhv9mG7LL6fbg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Which unfortunately the Google cam doesn't capture but can be seen really obviously by eye.

Speaking of Clermont there is some fairly decent driving roads around there like CR 561A, CR 455 and Sloan Ridge Road come to mind. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on July 20, 2016, 03:23:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2016, 11:10:21 PM
Quote from: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:05:41 PM
If you were to take the world's tallest tree (Hyperion) and plop it at sea level, it would still tower over the highest point in Florida.

Actually it's only 34 feet...Britton Hill is 345 feet above sea level.

I believe the highest point in Florida sits... at the top of a building! The Four Seasons Hotel Miami rises 789 foot from the ground, which is not many feet above sea level. That is more than double the height of Britton Hill.

Then there's Broward county high point, which is a mount made literally of trash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Trashmore_%28Florida%29).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2016, 04:06:59 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 20, 2016, 03:23:10 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 19, 2016, 11:10:21 PM
Quote from: chays on July 19, 2016, 11:05:41 PM
If you were to take the world's tallest tree (Hyperion) and plop it at sea level, it would still tower over the highest point in Florida.

Actually it's only 34 feet...Britton Hill is 345 feet above sea level.

I believe the highest point in Florida sits... at the top of a building! The Four Seasons Hotel Miami rises 789 foot from the ground, which is not many feet above sea level. That is more than double the height of Britton Hill.

Then there's Broward county high point, which is a mount made literally of trash (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Trashmore_%28Florida%29).

Same thing down in Monroe County on Stock Island, it's also called Mount Trashmore locally.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: noelbotevera on July 20, 2016, 04:41:41 PM
ZIP codes in my area conflict with my location. Chambersburg's ZIP code is 17201, but I actually live in the 17202 ZIP code. I have seen conflicts with this, such as packages arriving to the wrong house.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on July 20, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 20, 2016, 04:41:41 PM
ZIP codes in my area conflict with my location. Chambersburg's ZIP code is 17201, but I actually live in the 17202 ZIP code ...
Which is also Chambersburg per USPS website.  Guilford Township (or Twp) are recognized alternate locations for the ZIP code, but Chambersburg is the default to be used "whenever possible".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cpzilliacus on July 20, 2016, 09:33:44 PM
Quote from: DandyDan on November 29, 2015, 08:24:48 AM
One I read online somewhere (I don't remember where) is that Malmo, Sweden is closer to Milan, Italy than it is to Kiruna, Sweden.

Malmö, Sweden to Milano, Italy is 1464 km.

Avoiding the ferry between Rødby, Denmark and Puttgarden, Germany (using the Great Belt Bridge instead) results in a trip length of 1609 km.

Malmö, Sweden to Kiruna, Sweden is 1843 km.  A trip by train takes about 22 hours one-way, and generally involves one to three changes of train.

So what you read was correct.  Sweden is a very long country.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Here's an interesting geo-oddity.  I'll pose it as a trivia question, feel free to provide your best educated guess.

In the US, what is the longest river that has both its source and its mouth in the same state?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2016, 11:27:48 PM
Quote from: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Here's an interesting geo-oddity.  I'll pose it as a trivia question, feel free to provide your best educated guess.

In the US, what is the longest river that has both its source and its mouth in the same state?

I know what is for California....that would be the Sacramento which is 445 miles from source to mouth all intra-state.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:32:25 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2016, 11:27:48 PM
Quote from: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Here's an interesting geo-oddity.  I'll pose it as a trivia question, feel free to provide your best educated guess.

In the US, what is the longest river that has both its source and its mouth in the same state?

I know what is for California....that would be the Sacramento which is 445 miles from source to mouth all intra-state.
That's a great guess, but not the right answer.  The Sacramento is probably a top 5 in this category, maybe top 3 (I haven't researched further)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2016, 11:34:31 PM
Quote from: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:32:25 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2016, 11:27:48 PM
Quote from: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Here's an interesting geo-oddity.  I'll pose it as a trivia question, feel free to provide your best educated guess.

In the US, what is the longest river that has both its source and its mouth in the same state?

I know what is for California....that would be the Sacramento which is 445 miles from source to mouth all intra-state.
That's a great guess, but not the right answer.  The Sacramento is probably a top 5 in this category, maybe top 3 (I haven't researched further)

It's got to be Alaska something....I seem to recall some off the top of my head that are 500 miles plus intrastate.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadrunner75 on July 21, 2016, 12:34:59 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2016, 11:34:31 PM
Quote from: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:32:25 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2016, 11:27:48 PM
Quote from: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Here's an interesting geo-oddity.  I'll pose it as a trivia question, feel free to provide your best educated guess.

In the US, what is the longest river that has both its source and its mouth in the same state?

I know what is for California....that would be the Sacramento which is 445 miles from source to mouth all intra-state.
That's a great guess, but not the right answer.  The Sacramento is probably a top 5 in this category, maybe top 3 (I haven't researched further)

It's got to be Alaska something....I seem to recall some off the top of my head that are 500 miles plus intrastate.
Just staring at the map of the entire country in my Rand McNally for a minute, I'm gonna guess it's the Colorado River of Texas.  My first thought was Alaska too, but I know the Yukon at least runs into Canada. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on July 21, 2016, 01:42:28 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 21, 2016, 12:34:59 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2016, 11:34:31 PM
Quote from: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:32:25 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2016, 11:27:48 PM
Quote from: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Here's an interesting geo-oddity.  I'll pose it as a trivia question, feel free to provide your best educated guess.

In the US, what is the longest river that has both its source and its mouth in the same state?

I know what is for California....that would be the Sacramento which is 445 miles from source to mouth all intra-state.
That's a great guess, but not the right answer.  The Sacramento is probably a top 5 in this category, maybe top 3 (I haven't researched further)

It's got to be Alaska something....I seem to recall some off the top of my head that are 500 miles plus intrastate.
Just staring at the map of the entire country in my Rand McNally for a minute, I'm gonna guess it's the Colorado River of Texas.  My first thought was Alaska too, but I know the Yukon at least runs into Canada.
:clap: :clap: :clap: - You got it.  862 miles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: noelbotevera on July 21, 2016, 02:13:14 AM
Quote from: GaryV on July 20, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 20, 2016, 04:41:41 PM
ZIP codes in my area conflict with my location. Chambersburg's ZIP code is 17201, but I actually live in the 17202 ZIP code ...
Which is also Chambersburg per USPS website.  Guilford Township (or Twp) are recognized alternate locations for the ZIP code, but Chambersburg is the default to be used "whenever possible".
Well, I live in Hamilton Township, so the former wouldn't work. There's some other oddities with ZIP codes I found in my area.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on July 21, 2016, 06:23:52 AM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 21, 2016, 02:13:14 AM
Quote from: GaryV on July 20, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 20, 2016, 04:41:41 PM
ZIP codes in my area conflict with my location. Chambersburg's ZIP code is 17201, but I actually live in the 17202 ZIP code ...
Which is also Chambersburg per USPS website.  Guilford Township (or Twp) are recognized alternate locations for the ZIP code, but Chambersburg is the default to be used "whenever possible".
Well, I live in Hamilton Township, so the former wouldn't work. There's some other oddities with ZIP codes I found in my area.

ZIP Codes are actually nothing more than a way for the post office to distribute mail efficiently.  They weren't really supposed to identify exact towns, and especially the borders of that town. 

Phone number exchanges when all phones were landlines worked the same way: Many towns could identify themselves with a specific exchange or two, but those exchanges sometimes bled into adjoining towns.

I remember when my parents would write down phone numbers like this:  Mary: 3820.  John: 1105.  Because they were local friends and it was known that they were in the 468 exchange, so no reason to write down the full 7 digit number.  And the area code?  It was rare someone had to call someone long distance...and the rates to do so were incredibly expensive.  Shall we go into the era when you had to rent your phone from the nearby baby bell that served you???  (Thank goodness I'm not THAT old!  But my grandparents did have those heavy, leased phones!)



Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on July 21, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 21, 2016, 06:23:52 AM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 21, 2016, 02:13:14 AM
Quote from: GaryV on July 20, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on July 20, 2016, 04:41:41 PM
ZIP codes in my area conflict with my location. Chambersburg's ZIP code is 17201, but I actually live in the 17202 ZIP code ...
Which is also Chambersburg per USPS website.  Guilford Township (or Twp) are recognized alternate locations for the ZIP code, but Chambersburg is the default to be used "whenever possible".
Well, I live in Hamilton Township, so the former wouldn't work. There's some other oddities with ZIP codes I found in my area.

ZIP Codes are actually nothing more than a way for the post office to distribute mail efficiently.  They weren't really supposed to identify exact towns, and especially the borders of that town. 


Speaking of ZIP codes, Newton Falls, OH has the only ZIP code in which all the numbers are the same -- 44444.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tckma on July 21, 2016, 04:32:47 PM
Quote from: chays on July 20, 2016, 11:22:28 PM
Here's an interesting geo-oddity.  I'll pose it as a trivia question, feel free to provide your best educated guess.

In the US, what is the longest river that has both its source and its mouth in the same state?

Having driven I-90 in western Montana, I'm going to guess it's the Clark Fork River.  Seemed like every second bridge was labeled with a "CLARK FORK" BGS.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on July 21, 2016, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Speaking of ZIP codes, Newton Falls, OH has the only ZIP code in which all the numbers are the same -- 44444.

In line with that, the only postcode in Spain that all five numbers are the same digits belongs to Castejon de Monegros, Huesca province, Aragon: 22222. Incidentally, 44444 would be in Teruel province in the same region.

IIRC, General Electric in Schenectady NY has the best ZIP code: 12345.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 7/8 on July 21, 2016, 05:03:14 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 21, 2016, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Speaking of ZIP codes, Newton Falls, OH has the only ZIP code in which all the numbers are the same -- 44444.

In line with that, the only postcode in Spain that all five numbers are the same digits belongs to Castejon de Monegros, Huesca province, Aragon: 22222. Incidentally, 44444 would be in Teruel province in the same region.

IIRC, General Electric in Schenectady NY has the best ZIP code: 12345.

How about Santa Claus' postal code, H0H 0H0 :)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2016, 06:08:02 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on July 21, 2016, 05:03:14 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 21, 2016, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Speaking of ZIP codes, Newton Falls, OH has the only ZIP code in which all the numbers are the same -- 44444.

In line with that, the only postcode in Spain that all five numbers are the same digits belongs to Castejon de Monegros, Huesca province, Aragon: 22222. Incidentally, 44444 would be in Teruel province in the same region.

IIRC, General Electric in Schenectady NY has the best ZIP code: 12345.

How about Santa Claus' postal code, H0H 0H0 :)

Actually it's 86401.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus,_Arizona
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on July 21, 2016, 09:03:22 PM
Key West, FL, is further south than Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on July 21, 2016, 09:30:26 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 21, 2016, 06:23:52 AM
I remember when my parents would write down phone numbers like this:  Mary: 3820.  John: 1105.  Because they were local friends and it was known that they were in the 468 exchange, so no reason to write down the full 7 digit number.  And the area code?  It was rare someone had to call someone long distance...and the rates to do so were incredibly expensive.

I'm only 35 years old.  When I was in fourth and fifth grade, we only had to dial four digits to call someone in town.  For example, to dial the hospital, all I had to dial was 3211.  My phone number was 3129.  It was only in 1992 or so that they started making us dial all seven digits.  Back then, too, you could call from the northwest corner of Kansas to Kansas City as a local call, because both places were in the 913 area code.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2016, 09:31:28 PM
Quote from: chays on July 21, 2016, 09:03:22 PM
Key West, FL, is further south than Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

Here is one for Key West.  The southern most point isn't actually at the buoy on Whitehead Street anymore, it's actually somewhere near the radar tower within the air station right next to it.  BUT all that air station land is actually fill from dredging so the buoy is accurate if you account for only national land formations. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on July 21, 2016, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2016, 09:31:28 PM
Quote from: chays on July 21, 2016, 09:03:22 PM
Key West, FL, is further south than Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

Here is one for Key West.  The southern most point isn't actually at the buoy on Whitehead Street anymore, it's actually somewhere near the radar tower within the air station right next to it.  BUT all that air station land is actually fill from dredging so the buoy is accurate if you account for only national land formations. 

And in either case, these are only the southernmost points on that one cay, not in all of Florida (let alone the U.S.).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 21, 2016, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: bing101 on November 29, 2015, 06:17:57 PM
http://roadtrippers.kinja.com/welcome-to-americas-smallest-city-dont-worry-theres-1505997771

Monowi, Nebraska. I had no idea you can incorporate a city of 1 person. What!!!

http://www.bitrebels.com/lifestyle/smallest-town-in-america-population-one-person/

I had no idea that's even legal to make a charter city or a general law city and incorporate it with 1 person. I thought you need the voters of a county or a state in some cases to make it legal and a state and a state congress to ratify that. Also the budget would be a big deal in all of this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibberts_Gore,_Maine.  Another city with one person included.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2016, 10:27:51 PM
Quote from: empirestate on July 21, 2016, 10:24:15 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2016, 09:31:28 PM
Quote from: chays on July 21, 2016, 09:03:22 PM
Key West, FL, is further south than Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

Here is one for Key West.  The southern most point isn't actually at the buoy on Whitehead Street anymore, it's actually somewhere near the radar tower within the air station right next to it.  BUT all that air station land is actually fill from dredging so the buoy is accurate if you account for only national land formations. 

And in either case, these are only the southernmost points on that one cay, not in all of Florida (let alone the U.S.).

I want to say it's Ballast Key that is actually the southern most out in the Mules.  I'm not even sure if you can even legally land there at all these days, the only one that I remember ever spending some significant time at was Boca Grande.  Wasn't Ballast for sale at some point recently?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 8.Lug on July 21, 2016, 10:30:38 PM
Quote from: kphoger on July 21, 2016, 09:30:26 PM
I'm only 35 years old.  When I was in fourth and fifth grade, we only had to dial four digits to call someone in town.  For example, to dial the hospital, all I had to dial was 3211.  My phone number was 3129.  It was only in 1992 or so that they started making us dial all seven digits.  Back then, too, you could call from the northwest corner of Kansas to Kansas City as a local call, because both places were in the 913 area code.

Probably because you still had a manual switchboard in your area.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on July 21, 2016, 10:34:22 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 21, 2016, 10:24:42 PM
Quote from: bing101 on November 29, 2015, 06:17:57 PM
http://roadtrippers.kinja.com/welcome-to-americas-smallest-city-dont-worry-theres-1505997771

Monowi, Nebraska. I had no idea you can incorporate a city of 1 person. What!!!

http://www.bitrebels.com/lifestyle/smallest-town-in-america-population-one-person/

I had no idea that's even legal to make a charter city or a general law city and incorporate it with 1 person. I thought you need the voters of a county or a state in some cases to make it legal and a state and a state congress to ratify that. Also the budget would be a big deal in all of this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibberts_Gore,_Maine.  Another city with one person included.

Not a city, though, and not legally chartered/incorporated. It's a county subdivision with no established government.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GenExpwy on July 22, 2016, 04:51:34 AM
Georgia has 159 counties, the second-most of any state, but none of them have a county seat with the same name as the county. (Variant names, such as Douglasville, Douglas County, do not count. Names of other counties, such as Douglas, Coffee County, do not count.)

The only other states without a same-name county/parish/borough seat are:
- Delaware (3 counties)
- Maine (16 counties)
- New Hampshire (10 counties)

In contrast, South Carolina has same-name seats in 31 of 46 counties.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on July 22, 2016, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: kphoger on July 21, 2016, 09:30:26 PM
Back then, too, you could call from the northwest corner of Kansas to Kansas City as a local call, because both places were in the 913 area code.
You may not have had to dial the area code, but didn't you at least have to dial a 1 before the 7-digit number?  Else you could inadvertently make a long-distance call, that cost you.  I'm sure the whole state wasn't local.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on July 22, 2016, 07:49:38 AM
Quote from: GaryV on July 22, 2016, 06:09:37 AM
Quote from: kphoger on July 21, 2016, 09:30:26 PM
Back then, too, you could call from the northwest corner of Kansas to Kansas City as a local call, because both places were in the 913 area code.
You may not have had to dial the area code, but didn't you at least have to dial a 1 before the 7-digit number?  Else you could inadvertently make a long-distance call, that cost you.  I'm sure the whole state wasn't local.

No. Everything in the 913 area code (half of Kansas at that time) was a seven-digit dialing pattern.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on July 22, 2016, 09:55:02 AM
Telephone ramblings.

- I am a bit older, but I certainly can remember when you only had to dial 4 numbers (BTW neither a phone nor a TV  nor most radios have a dial any more but we still use the term). 

- A reference to the original 1947 area code map is as good as any about the move of this country to the Sun Belt.  The only arguabably southern state with more than one AC was Texas. 

- Also, if you consider how a dial works, which place got which AC was by design.  The shortest possible was 212 (New York City).  The heartland and Canada got the ones with all the 8s and 9s.

- As noted long distance used to be d***ed expensive.  That was the way the pre-break up (huge mistake, IMHO) Bell System worked.  They wanted most everybody to have a phone, so local service was really not that big of a money maker.  But they made it up via long distance.  Which, if you look at it, meant that businesses and wealthier people subsidized poorer people. 

- Back in the day, rural people did get squeezed because the phone company was allowed to charge "mileage".  That meant that if you lived in the town the exchange was in, you paid $X, but if you lived out in the countryside, you might pay 50 cents or $1 more just to have a phone.

- About 20% of the country, mostly rural but not always as GTE had several significant cities, had non Bell phone companies.  GTE was the largest and then there were two dozen more.  It seemed that GTE was eternally 10 years behind Bell in technology and then the others were 10 years behind that.  I can remember working in the Bristol VA-TN area, which was a company called United, in the late 80s and it was still dial pay phones and you had to call the operator for long distance. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 22, 2016, 10:02:56 AM
Tokyo is halfway between Sacramento and Los Angeles.  Also when you travel west from Sacramento directly you can reach the 38th parallel at the South Korea/North Korea border.   go west in a straight line from San Francisco you reach the city of Seoul, South Korea.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on July 22, 2016, 10:22:34 AM
Roadgeek aside re:  the WV Turnpike has a sign marking the 38th Parallel as a memorial to Korean War veterans.  I have never seen it marked anywhere else.  They put it up maybe 5 years ago and I really had no idea  that that line passed through the area. 

Marked anywhere else?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on July 22, 2016, 10:30:32 AM
For whatever reason, most cell phone exchanges in my area were Vineland based, which meant it was a local-long distance call from my area.  Back in the days when there were no anytime minutes, every time I made a call or someone called the phone, I was charged since those calls were almost always from outside that local area.

In my area, I was on the edge of what was considered the local calling area.  The next town over to the east was a different zone, and we were charged for those calls even though it was just a few miles away.

When I first went to college in Delaware, I was amazed that their local area included a section of PA.  Even though they had to dial the area code to call into another state, they weren't charged for the call.

At my grandmother's funeral last year, one of the stories I told was about the rotary phone she had in the house until she moved out to a nursing home.  The last two times I used it, I mis-dialed the number.  I never used one since! :-)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on July 22, 2016, 01:18:44 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 22, 2016, 10:02:56 AM
Tokyo is halfway between Sacramento and Los Angeles.  Also when you travel west from Sacramento directly you can reach the 38th parallel at the South Korea/North Korea border.   go west in a straight line from San Francisco you reach the city of Seoul, South Korea.

That all seems perfectly expected to me; doesn't seem to defy conventional wisdom whatsoever.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 23, 2016, 06:08:54 PM
Quote from: empirestate on July 22, 2016, 01:18:44 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 22, 2016, 10:02:56 AM
Tokyo is halfway between Sacramento and Los Angeles.  Also when you travel west from Sacramento directly you can reach the 38th parallel at the South Korea/North Korea border.   go west in a straight line from San Francisco you reach the city of Seoul, South Korea.

That all seems perfectly expected to me; doesn't seem to defy conventional wisdom whatsoever.

A better example Shanghai is south of Los Angeles. And Atlanta is south of Los Angeles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: paulthemapguy on September 28, 2016, 07:32:33 PM
There's a thread going around about making a new I-20/I-30 connector across west Texas or something...and I was surprised to find that Las Cruces is pretty much due west of Dallas.  And Phoenix is actually NORTH of Dallas  :crazy:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on September 29, 2016, 03:01:03 PM
Chicago is north of New York


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on September 29, 2016, 08:57:56 PM
Quote from: bing101 on September 29, 2016, 03:01:03 PM
Chicago is north of New York


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area

That's not surprising. I would have expected them at almost exactly the same latitude, with margin of error possible in either direction.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on September 29, 2016, 10:36:53 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 29, 2016, 08:57:56 PM
Quote from: bing101 on September 29, 2016, 03:01:03 PM
Chicago is north of New York


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area

That's not surprising. I would have expected them at almost exactly the same latitude, with margin of error possible in either direction.

Yeah, and I'd expect Chicago to be farther north, since, like Upstate NY, it is on the Great Lakes. NYC, on the other hand, is on the Atlantic seabord, which is essentially the "south" coast of NYS.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 23skidoo on October 05, 2016, 02:24:22 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 29, 2016, 08:57:56 PM
Quote from: bing101 on September 29, 2016, 03:01:03 PM
Chicago is north of New York


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area

That's not surprising. I would have expected them at almost exactly the same latitude, with margin of error possible in either direction.

Not all that weird to me. What I find really weird is that Chicago is at the same latitude as Rome. Seriously. For example, the Colosseum is at the exact same latitude as Navy Pier. Given that Rome's January is 22 F (12 C) warmer than Chicago, that's incredible.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 05, 2016, 04:31:21 PM
Heck, my latitude is North of that of Chicago, and yet we have way warmer Winters than Windy City (But we still get temps below freezing every Winter).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on October 06, 2016, 05:08:44 AM
Ocean currents are a hell of a thing, aren't they?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on October 06, 2016, 08:05:40 AM
Rome is pretty insulated from the North Atlantic Drift!

That said, the Med is a lot bigger than Lake Michigan, and so the neutering effect of large bodies of water (takes longer to warm/cool than land) is more present (see that Rome is 8.1F (4.5C) cooler in summer, on average, than Chicago).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 06, 2016, 09:32:11 AM
The Longitude of Las Vegas is about the same as Nashville.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 06, 2016, 09:40:37 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 06, 2016, 09:32:11 AM
The Longitude of Las Vegas is about the same as Nashville.

I still don't believe you.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on October 06, 2016, 10:12:24 AM
Here are a few:

Myrtle Beach, SC is roughly due south of Buffalo, NY
Cape Hatteras, NC is roughly due south of Utica, NY
Miami, FL is roughly due south of Erie, PA

It's amazing how much eastward the coast shifts are you go north.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on October 06, 2016, 10:25:40 AM
And along similar lines, Edinburgh, on the East Coast of Scotland, is slightly west of Liverpool, on the West Coast of England.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on October 07, 2016, 01:07:20 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 06, 2016, 09:32:11 AM
The Longitude of Las Vegas is about the same as Nashville.

*snickers*
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on October 07, 2016, 04:25:54 PM
Bogota, Colombia, and Bogota, New Jersey, are on about the same longitude.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: paulthemapguy on October 24, 2016, 12:38:21 PM
^Carter Lake, Iowa is mostly like this.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on October 24, 2016, 02:44:19 PM
San Francisco is further south in latitude than Denver.

And I-80's Western Terminus is also further south than both I-70's Eastern & Western Termini.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on October 25, 2016, 12:33:00 PM
Portland, OR and Montreal are on the same latitude, and Seattle is north of Quebec City.

The CA/OR, PA/NY, and CT/MA border are all on the same latitude.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 25, 2016, 04:22:29 PM
And Point Pelee and Pelee Island on lake Erie (both in Canada) are South of that latitude.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on October 25, 2016, 04:45:27 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 25, 2016, 04:22:29 PM
And Point Pelee and Pelee Island on lake Erie (both in Canada) are South of that latitude.

They're south of the CA/OR border.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 25, 2016, 04:52:48 PM
Jackson, Mississippi, is a little bit farther south than Tijuana.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on October 25, 2016, 05:02:24 PM
A few here:

- Albany, NY is closer to 10 other states and 2 Canadian provinces than it is to Buffalo, NY
- Continuing the New York game, NYC is closer to 12 states, DC, and 2 provinces than it is to Buffalo.
- New York City, Madrid, and Istanbul are at approximately the same latitude
- Vancouver and Luxembourg are at the same latitude
- San Francisco, Seoul, and Athens? Yep, same latitude.
- Miami, Dubai, Taipei: see above
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 25, 2016, 05:07:07 PM
Quote from: cl94 on October 25, 2016, 05:02:24 PM
- New York City ... and Istanbul are at approximately the same latitude
- San Francisco ... and Athens? Yep, same latitude.

These surprised me.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 25, 2016, 05:12:11 PM
Buenos Aires and Montevideo are at approximately the same latitude as the southern tip of Africa.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 25, 2016, 05:15:58 PM
Erie, PA is at the same latitude as me.

Actually, Europe is farther North than you think. Oslo is placed at the same latitude as the Southern boundary of the Canadian territories!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on October 25, 2016, 06:24:01 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 25, 2016, 05:15:58 PM
Erie, PA is at the same latitude as me.

Actually, Europe is farther North than you think. Oslo is placed at the same latitude as the Southern boundary of the Canadian territories!

Oslo and Edinburgh aren't too far south of Juneau
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: texaskdog on October 25, 2016, 06:33:47 PM
if this hasn't been mentioned yet, Detroit is closer to Washington DC than Copper Harbor, MI
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on January 06, 2017, 10:15:11 AM
Quezon City, Philippines is really larger than Manila by population in the country. But Manila gets greater attention in the Philippine media and to a certain extent Makati city.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on January 06, 2017, 10:25:43 AM
Quote from: bing101 on January 06, 2017, 10:15:11 AM
Quezon City, Philippines is really larger than Manila by population in the country. But Manila gets greater attention in the Philippine media and to a certain extent Makati city.

Some United States examples:

1. Bridgeport is the largest city in Connecticut, even though people normally think of Hartford and New Haven first.
2. Virginia Beach is larger than Norfolk, but Norfolk is more important.
3. When people think of large cities, or even medium-large cities, cities in North Carolina are usually forgotten. (This may not be true on this forum.)
4. San Jose is larger than San Francisco. (This has probably been mentioned earlier in this thread.)




In the United States, east of the Hudson River, the population inside New England and the population outside New England are almost equal (close enough that I don't know which is greater).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 06, 2017, 10:45:44 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 06, 2017, 10:25:43 AM
Quote from: bing101 on January 06, 2017, 10:15:11 AM
Quezon City, Philippines is really larger than Manila by population in the country. But Manila gets greater attention in the Philippine media and to a certain extent Makati city.

Some United States examples:

1. Bridgeport is the largest city in Connecticut, even though people normally think of Hartford and New Haven first.
2. Virginia Beach is larger than Norfolk, but Norfolk is more important.
3. When people think of large cities, or even medium-large cities, cities in North Carolina are usually forgotten. (This may not be true on this forum.)
4. San Jose is larger than San Francisco. (This has probably been mentioned earlier in this thread.)




In the United States, east of the Hudson River, the population inside New England and the population outside New England are almost equal (close enough that I don't know which is greater).

With 1 I'd say it was definitely Hartford, especially when I was living in Connecticut for six years in the early 1990s.  But then again Hartford and Bridgeport were probably only a couple thousand people apart when I lived there, but Bridgeport still had a higher population.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: adventurernumber1 on January 06, 2017, 11:47:11 AM
Atlanta, GA is closer to Philadelphia, PA, than to Dallas, TX (666 miles vs. 720 miles).

Chattanooga, TN is closer to New York City, NY, than to Key West, FL (730 miles vs. 756 miles).

Chattanooga, TN is closer to Charlotte, NC, than to Memphis, TN (253 miles vs. 268 miles).

Lake City, FL is closer to Asheville, NC, than to Key West, FL (374 miles vs. 393 miles).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 06, 2017, 11:49:27 AM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on January 06, 2017, 11:47:11 AM
Atlanta, GA is closer to Philadelphia, PA, than to Dallas, TX (666 miles vs. 720 miles).

Chattanooga, TN is closer to New York City, NY, than to Key West, FL (730 miles vs. 756 miles).

Chattanooga, TN is closer to Charlotte, NC, than to Memphis, TN (253 miles vs. 268 miles).

Lake City, FL is closer to Asheville, NC, than to Key West, FL (374 miles vs. 393 miles).

Speaking of Key West, if you were to drive the fastest route from Pensacola it would be a over 800 mile drive:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Key+West,+FL/Pensacola,+FL/@27.5867591,-88.1767173,6z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x88d1b134ad952377:0x3fcee92f77463b5e!2m2!1d-81.7799871!2d24.5550593!1m5!1m1!1s0x8890bf45accbaabb:0xa7c69a6e3179657c!2m2!1d-87.2169149!2d30.421309?hl=en
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on January 06, 2017, 11:51:02 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 06, 2017, 10:25:43 AM

Some United States examples:

2. Virginia Beach is larger than Norfolk, but Norfolk is more important.

3. When people think of large cities, or even medium-large cities, cities in North Carolina are usually forgotten. (This may not be true on this forum.)

Define "important".  I will grant you that Norfolk is both more industrial and has more of lawyer/accountant/banker downtown; and, has a certain international importance as the largest military base on earth, but that is not all there is to being "important".

About North Carolina, right.  And both North Carolina and Virginia are examples of the use of a different word for a metro and the city.  Most places are generally just "greater" "metro" or "area" with a city name to mean "central city and its suburbs".   The cities of eastern Virginia are, however, "the Tidewater" or "Hampton Roads" ,  and the main areas of North Carolina are "the Piedmont Triad" (Winston-Salem, High Point, Greensboro) , "the Triangle" (Raleigh. Durham, Chapel Hill), and "Metrolina" (Charlotte).    Pretty rare elsewhere.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on January 06, 2017, 12:17:35 PM
The island of Borneo has more than 3.5 times the land area of Great Britain (wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_by_area))
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: AlexandriaVA on January 06, 2017, 12:30:53 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on October 25, 2016, 06:33:47 PM
if this hasn't been mentioned yet, Detroit is closer to Washington DC than Copper Harbor, MI

Quote from: GaryV on November 28, 2015, 03:59:27 PM
Detroit is closer to Philadelphia and Washington DC than it is to Ironwood MI in the western UP.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 06, 2017, 01:12:22 PM
Something less related to travel:
Although Mount Everest is  a highest mountain on Earth being 8,848 metres (29,029 ft) above sea level, Chimborazo  in Ecuador is the point furthest away from earth center - despite being "just"  6,263 m (20,548 ft) above sea level. This is because earth is not a sphere - and being closer to equator means sea level is further away from earth center.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: AlexandriaVA on January 06, 2017, 01:40:10 PM
Technically speaking the Earth is a "sphereoid". For cartographic purposes, the surface of the earth is "smoothed" into an "ellipsoid". I believe that gravitational effects of other heavenly bodies may also affect the "true" surface of the Earth.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 06, 2017, 01:50:16 PM
Quote from: AlexandriaVA on January 06, 2017, 01:40:10 PM
Technically speaking the Earth is a "sphereoid". For cartographic purposes, the surface of the earth is "smoothed" into an "ellipsoid". I believe that gravitational effects of other heavenly bodies may also affect the "true" surface of the Earth.
Remote effects will be small, except for Moon (tides), and some for Sun.
What matters most is the distribution of mass inside the planet.

And, by the way, tides themselves are a big geographic oddity... I really love the concept of tidal wave going around New Zealand..
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on January 06, 2017, 04:08:47 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 06, 2017, 10:25:43 AM
Quote from: bing101 on January 06, 2017, 10:15:11 AM
Quezon City, Philippines is really larger than Manila by population in the country. But Manila gets greater attention in the Philippine media and to a certain extent Makati city.

Some United States examples:

1. Bridgeport is the largest city in Connecticut, even though people normally think of Hartford and New Haven first.
2. Virginia Beach is larger than Norfolk, but Norfolk is more important.
3. When people think of large cities, or even medium-large cities, cities in North Carolina are usually forgotten. (This may not be true on this forum.)
4. San Jose is larger than San Francisco. (This has probably been mentioned earlier in this thread.)




In the United States, east of the Hudson River, the population inside New England and the population outside New England are almost equal (close enough that I don't know which is greater).




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_Manila

See stats for Quezon city and Manila. It's amazing that Quezon City is really the Philippines largest city.
But officially Quezon city is labeled a Manila Suburb. Also the Metro Manila area total land area is the same size as the San Fernando Valley in Los Angeles but Metro Manila has 12 million people while the San Fernando Valley has 1.8 million people. 

Interestingly the second largest metro area in the Philippines (Cebu City) its entire population can fit in Quezon city.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cebu_City


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davao_City

And the Metro Davao areas population can fit in Quezon city too.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_Manila

Metro Manila's population is equivalent to everybody in Orange county and Los Angeles counties crammed in the San Fernando Valley. 12 million people in one spot.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on January 07, 2017, 11:12:20 AM
San Fernando, Pampanga and Baguio city, Philippines are west of Manila.

Cebu City, Philippines and Davao City Philippines are east of Manila.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: wxfree on January 07, 2017, 01:10:22 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 06, 2017, 01:12:22 PM
Something less related to travel:
Although Mount Everest is  a highest mountain on Earth being 8,848 metres (29,029 ft) above sea level, Chimborazo  in Ecuador is the point furthest away from earth center - despite being "just"  6,263 m (20,548 ft) above sea level. This is because earth is not a sphere - and being closer to equator means sea level is further away from earth center.

There's also the geoid to contend with.  What constitutes a level has to be defined by gravity, not by geometry, because it's gravity that matters when building something, or when water finds its level.  An elevation at a given latitude may be closer to or farther from the center of the earth because of variances in the strength of gravity.  Also, what constitutes "down" can be in different directions based on the geoid's curvature.  If canals were cut across continents and allowed to fill with sea water, the water, showing sea level at each point, would be higher at some places than at others, just like the oceans do (and would even if there were no wind or tides). (Of course, if you were to cut away pieces of land to make the canals that would change the shape of the earth's gravity, so this works only in theory.)

A map on Wikipedia shows a range of deviation between 107 meters below and 85.4 meters above the ellipsoid.  Over the scale of a planet it isn't much, but it's interesting.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jmd41280 on January 07, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
Cities closer to Pittsburgh than Philadelphia is (257 miles):

(all distances as the crow flies)
Detroit, MI (205 miles)
Washington, DC (190 miles)
Toronto, ON (224 miles)
London, ON (187 miles)
Buffalo, NY (179 miles)
Rochester, NY (225 miles)
Richmond, VA (243 miles)
Roanoke, VA (219 miles)
Ashland, KY (196 miles)
Dover, DE (254 miles)

Cities closer to Philadelphia than Pittsburgh is:

Providence, RI (235 miles)
Worcester, MA (237 miles)
Norfolk, VA (223 miles)
Syracuse, NY (220 miles)
Washington, DC (123 miles)
Richmond, VA (207 miles)
Ocean City, MD (112 miles)
Rochester, NY (255 miles)
Bennington, VT (227 miles)
Glens Falls, NY (245 miles)
Corolla, NC (250 miles)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on January 08, 2017, 05:46:32 PM
Beijing is North of San Francisco but South of New York


Bejjing is also west of Shanghai



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:06:39 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 07, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
Cities closer to Pittsburgh than Philadelphia is (257 miles):

(all distances as the crow flies)
Detroit, MI (205 miles)
Washington, DC (190 miles)
Toronto, ON (224 miles)
London, ON (187 miles)
Buffalo, NY (179 miles)
Rochester, NY (225 miles)
Richmond, VA (243 miles)
Roanoke, VA (219 miles)
Ashland, KY (196 miles)
Dover, DE (254 miles)

Cities closer to Philadelphia than Pittsburgh is:

Providence, RI (235 miles)
Worcester, MA (237 miles)
Norfolk, VA (223 miles)
Syracuse, NY (220 miles)
Washington, DC (123 miles)
Richmond, VA (207 miles)
Ocean City, MD (112 miles)
Rochester, NY (255 miles)
Bennington, VT (227 miles)
Glens Falls, NY (245 miles)
Corolla, NC (250 miles)

Anyone who has taken I-80 across Pennsylvania can testify to how that state seems to never end.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 08, 2017, 09:08:18 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 07, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
Cities closer to Pittsburgh than Philadelphia is (257 miles):

(all distances as the crow flies)
Dover, DE (254 miles)

I didn't really believe this one.  Using Google's Measure Distance Feature, I took the closest border point of Philly & Dover on their west sides to the closest Pittsburgh border point on the east side. 

Amazingly, you are correct, although the measurements are a bit different. And by my measure, Dover is closer by less than a mile! (243.35 to 244.19 miles away)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jmd41280 on January 08, 2017, 09:19:00 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:06:39 PMAnyone who has taken I-80 across Pennsylvania can testify to how that state seems to never end.

Definitely true.  On a trip to the Hudson Valley in NY one time, I took the I-70/PA Turnpike 66/US 22/I-99/I-80/I-81/I-84 route across the state and it seemed like it would never end.  I'm sure our friends in Texas (or anyone that has driven I-10 across that state) are laughing at us as we say this, though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:24:25 PM
I'll do this same thing but with New York, NY (I'm using Google Measure so assume some bit of error). The distance from New York to Buffalo is 296.17.

NYC is closer to the following cities (as the crow flies):

- Springfield, MA (118.6 miles)
- Boston, MA (190.68 miles)
- Manchester, NH (205.24 miles)
- Laconia, NH (232.1 miles)
- Burlington, VT (264.22 miles)
- Conway, NH (270.84 miles)
- Portland, ME (282.43 miles)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jmd41280 on January 08, 2017, 09:38:14 PM
Even though West Virginia has a relatively small area compared to many other states, its dimensions seem to make it larger than it is.  I'm going to use 3 cities on different ends of the state as reference points:  Chester (tip of northern panhandle), Bluefield (extreme south WV), and Harpers Ferry (tip of eastern panhandle).

Cities closer to Chester than Bluefield is (234 miles)...
Detroit, MI (175 miles)
Flint, MI (231 miles)
Buffalo, NY (180 miles)
Toronto, ON (219 miles)
Rochester, NY (233 miles)

Cities closer to Bluefield than Chester is:
Charlotte, NC (143 miles)
Columbia, SC (226 miles)
Raleigh, NC (177 miles)
Knoxville, TN (175 miles)
Rocky Mount, NC (212 miles)

Cities closer to Harpers Ferry than Bluefield is (237 miles):
Washington, DC (47 miles)
Ocean City, MD (159 miles)
Philadelphia, PA (144 miles)
New York, NY (220 miles)
Binghamton, NY (214 miles)
Norfolk, VA (189 miles)
Elizabeth City, NC (225 miles)

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 10, 2017, 05:06:39 AM
Quote from: bing101 on January 08, 2017, 05:46:32 PM
Beijing is North of San Francisco but South of New York


Bejjing is also west of Shanghai



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai

Beijing actually straddles the 40th parallel North. There's a subway line, line 15, that runs along it before turning Northeast to Shunyi.

It doesn't surprise me that Beijing is West of Shanghai, though, due to the coastline. What it is striking, is that Dong Wuzhumuqin (East Ujimqin, in Inner Mongolia) is West of Xi Wuzhumuqin (West Ujimqin)!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: texaskdog on January 10, 2017, 10:34:16 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:06:39 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 07, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
Cities closer to Pittsburgh than Philadelphia is (257 miles):

(all distances as the crow flies)
Detroit, MI (205 miles)
Washington, DC (190 miles)
Toronto, ON (224 miles)
London, ON (187 miles)
Buffalo, NY (179 miles)
Rochester, NY (225 miles)
Richmond, VA (243 miles)
Roanoke, VA (219 miles)
Ashland, KY (196 miles)
Dover, DE (254 miles)

Cities closer to Philadelphia than Pittsburgh is:

Providence, RI (235 miles)
Worcester, MA (237 miles)
Norfolk, VA (223 miles)
Syracuse, NY (220 miles)
Washington, DC (123 miles)
Richmond, VA (207 miles)
Ocean City, MD (112 miles)
Rochester, NY (255 miles)
Bennington, VT (227 miles)
Glens Falls, NY (245 miles)
Corolla, NC (250 miles)

Anyone who has taken I-80 across Pennsylvania can testify to how that state seems to never end.

Welcome to Texas
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on January 10, 2017, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 10, 2017, 10:34:16 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:06:39 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 07, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
(1's edit: Font size changed to 6)
Cities closer to Pittsburgh than Philadelphia is (257 miles):

(all distances as the crow flies)
Detroit, MI (205 miles)
Washington, DC (190 miles)
Toronto, ON (224 miles)
London, ON (187 miles)
Buffalo, NY (179 miles)
Rochester, NY (225 miles)
Richmond, VA (243 miles)
Roanoke, VA (219 miles)
Ashland, KY (196 miles)
Dover, DE (254 miles)

Cities closer to Philadelphia than Pittsburgh is:

Providence, RI (235 miles)
Worcester, MA (237 miles)
Norfolk, VA (223 miles)
Syracuse, NY (220 miles)
Washington, DC (123 miles)
Richmond, VA (207 miles)
Ocean City, MD (112 miles)
Rochester, NY (255 miles)
Bennington, VT (227 miles)
Glens Falls, NY (245 miles)
Corolla, NC (250 miles)


Anyone who has taken I-80 across Pennsylvania can testify to how that state seems to never end.

Welcome to Texas

Texas is expected to be large. Most other states are not.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 10, 2017, 11:29:00 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2017, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 10, 2017, 10:34:16 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:06:39 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 07, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
(1's edit: Font size changed to 6)
Cities closer to Pittsburgh than Philadelphia is (257 miles):

(all distances as the crow flies)
Detroit, MI (205 miles)
Washington, DC (190 miles)
Toronto, ON (224 miles)
London, ON (187 miles)
Buffalo, NY (179 miles)
Rochester, NY (225 miles)
Richmond, VA (243 miles)
Roanoke, VA (219 miles)
Ashland, KY (196 miles)
Dover, DE (254 miles)

Cities closer to Philadelphia than Pittsburgh is:

Providence, RI (235 miles)
Worcester, MA (237 miles)
Norfolk, VA (223 miles)
Syracuse, NY (220 miles)
Washington, DC (123 miles)
Richmond, VA (207 miles)
Ocean City, MD (112 miles)
Rochester, NY (255 miles)
Bennington, VT (227 miles)
Glens Falls, NY (245 miles)
Corolla, NC (250 miles)


Anyone who has taken I-80 across Pennsylvania can testify to how that state seems to never end.

Welcome to Texas

Texas is expected to be large. Most other states are not.
Well... I-80 stretch in Nebraska (455 miles), Nevada (410 miles) and Wyoming (403 miles) are longer than I-80 stretch in PA (311 miles)

I guess that qualifies as a separate trivia post?..
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on January 10, 2017, 11:46:14 AM
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2017, 11:29:00 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2017, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 10, 2017, 10:34:16 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:06:39 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 07, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
(1's edit: Font size changed to 6)
Cities closer to Pittsburgh than Philadelphia is (257 miles):

(all distances as the crow flies)
Detroit, MI (205 miles)
Washington, DC (190 miles)
Toronto, ON (224 miles)
London, ON (187 miles)
Buffalo, NY (179 miles)
Rochester, NY (225 miles)
Richmond, VA (243 miles)
Roanoke, VA (219 miles)
Ashland, KY (196 miles)
Dover, DE (254 miles)

Cities closer to Philadelphia than Pittsburgh is:

Providence, RI (235 miles)
Worcester, MA (237 miles)
Norfolk, VA (223 miles)
Syracuse, NY (220 miles)
Washington, DC (123 miles)
Richmond, VA (207 miles)
Ocean City, MD (112 miles)
Rochester, NY (255 miles)
Bennington, VT (227 miles)
Glens Falls, NY (245 miles)
Corolla, NC (250 miles)


Anyone who has taken I-80 across Pennsylvania can testify to how that state seems to never end.

Welcome to Texas

Texas is expected to be large. Most other states are not.
Well... I-80 stretch in Nebraska (455 miles), Nevada (410 miles) and Wyoming (403 miles) are longer than I-80 stretch in PA (311 miles)

I guess that qualifies as a separate trivia post?..

I guess PA is tucked in the Northeast where every other state (except for NY) is small...so it may just be psychological that it seems like the state goes on forever.

And unlike most other interstates within a state, the PA Turnpike & I-80 don't go thru any major cities either.  You can travel both the PA Turnpike and I-80 end-to-end and you'll mostly see trees and farms the entire way.  You'll never go thru an actual city, which most 2di interstates fairly often, especially out east.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 10, 2017, 11:50:28 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 10, 2017, 11:46:14 AM

I guess PA is tucked in the Northeast where every other state (except for NY) is small...so it may just be psychological that it seems like the state goes on forever.

And unlike most other interstates within a state, the PA Turnpike & I-80 don't go thru any major cities either.  You can travel both the PA Turnpike and I-80 end-to-end and you'll mostly see trees and farms the entire way.  You'll never go thru an actual city, which most 2di interstates fairly often, especially out east.
BTW, mileage-wise NY does a dirty trick having contionious mileposts on Thruway as it goes from I-87 to I-90. It does reach infamous 420 miles league somewhere in Buffalo (I saw 419.9 myself) - something that would not happen if honest I-90 and I-87 mileages were used..
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 10, 2017, 12:55:49 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2017, 11:29:00 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 10, 2017, 10:45:54 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on January 10, 2017, 10:34:16 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:06:39 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 07, 2017, 03:30:31 PM
(1's edit: Font size changed to 6)
Cities closer to Pittsburgh than Philadelphia is (257 miles):

(all distances as the crow flies)
Detroit, MI (205 miles)
Washington, DC (190 miles)
Toronto, ON (224 miles)
London, ON (187 miles)
Buffalo, NY (179 miles)
Rochester, NY (225 miles)
Richmond, VA (243 miles)
Roanoke, VA (219 miles)
Ashland, KY (196 miles)
Dover, DE (254 miles)

Cities closer to Philadelphia than Pittsburgh is:

Providence, RI (235 miles)
Worcester, MA (237 miles)
Norfolk, VA (223 miles)
Syracuse, NY (220 miles)
Washington, DC (123 miles)
Richmond, VA (207 miles)
Ocean City, MD (112 miles)
Rochester, NY (255 miles)
Bennington, VT (227 miles)
Glens Falls, NY (245 miles)
Corolla, NC (250 miles)


Anyone who has taken I-80 across Pennsylvania can testify to how that state seems to never end.

Welcome to Texas

Texas is expected to be large. Most other states are not.
Well... I-80 stretch in Nebraska (455 miles), Nevada (410 miles) and Wyoming (403 miles) are longer than I-80 stretch in PA (311 miles)

I guess that qualifies as a separate trivia post?..

If you steamrolled that stretch of I-80 down to a common elevation, it'd stretch across the country. :D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on January 10, 2017, 09:56:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2017, 11:50:28 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 10, 2017, 11:46:14 AM

I guess PA is tucked in the Northeast where every other state (except for NY) is small...so it may just be psychological that it seems like the state goes on forever.

And unlike most other interstates within a state, the PA Turnpike & I-80 don't go thru any major cities either.  You can travel both the PA Turnpike and I-80 end-to-end and you'll mostly see trees and farms the entire way.  You'll never go thru an actual city, which most 2di interstates fairly often, especially out east.
BTW, mileage-wise NY does a dirty trick having contionious mileposts on Thruway as it goes from I-87 to I-90. It does reach infamous 420 miles league somewhere in Buffalo (I saw 419.9 myself) - something that would not happen if honest I-90 and I-87 mileages were used..
Even with its own mileage, I-90 in NY is longer than I-80 in PA (385 miles vs. 310).  Of course, I-90 actually passes through the Buffalo, Syracuse, and Albany metro areas, so there's stuff to break up the rural scenery.

The same is true for I-87 (333 miles).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 10, 2017, 10:03:56 PM
Minaret Summit is actually in Madera County California.  You wouldn't know it because you have to access the area via the eastern flank of the Sierras through Mono County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on January 10, 2017, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 10, 2017, 09:56:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2017, 11:50:28 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 10, 2017, 11:46:14 AM

I guess PA is tucked in the Northeast where every other state (except for NY) is small...so it may just be psychological that it seems like the state goes on forever.

And unlike most other interstates within a state, the PA Turnpike & I-80 don't go thru any major cities either.  You can travel both the PA Turnpike and I-80 end-to-end and you'll mostly see trees and farms the entire way.  You'll never go thru an actual city, which most 2di interstates fairly often, especially out east.
BTW, mileage-wise NY does a dirty trick having contionious mileposts on Thruway as it goes from I-87 to I-90. It does reach infamous 420 miles league somewhere in Buffalo (I saw 419.9 myself) - something that would not happen if honest I-90 and I-87 mileages were used..
Even with its own mileage, I-90 in NY is longer than I-80 in PA (385 miles vs. 310).  Of course, I-90 actually passes through the Buffalo, Syracuse, and Albany metro areas, so there's stuff to break up the rural scenery.

The same is true for I-87 (333 miles).

I-87 is deceptive, because it goes from nearly the southernmost point of the state to the northernmost point.

If I-90 had its own mileage and distance-based exits, it would have the highest exit number in the state (385). MA border is just shy of 386. If NY 17/I-86 were mile-based, it would only get to 381. With Thruway miles, 496.00 is at the PA border.

For another oddity: Montauk Point is approximately even longitudinally with Worcester, Massachusetts and a couple miles west of the eastern border of Connecticut.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 11, 2017, 08:23:20 AM
Quote from: cl94 on January 10, 2017, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 10, 2017, 09:56:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2017, 11:50:28 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 10, 2017, 11:46:14 AM

I guess PA is tucked in the Northeast where every other state (except for NY) is small...so it may just be psychological that it seems like the state goes on forever.

And unlike most other interstates within a state, the PA Turnpike & I-80 don't go thru any major cities either.  You can travel both the PA Turnpike and I-80 end-to-end and you'll mostly see trees and farms the entire way.  You'll never go thru an actual city, which most 2di interstates fairly often, especially out east.
BTW, mileage-wise NY does a dirty trick having contionious mileposts on Thruway as it goes from I-87 to I-90. It does reach infamous 420 miles league somewhere in Buffalo (I saw 419.9 myself) - something that would not happen if honest I-90 and I-87 mileages were used..
Even with its own mileage, I-90 in NY is longer than I-80 in PA (385 miles vs. 310).  Of course, I-90 actually passes through the Buffalo, Syracuse, and Albany metro areas, so there's stuff to break up the rural scenery.

The same is true for I-87 (333 miles).

I-87 is deceptive, because it goes from nearly the southernmost point of the state to the northernmost point.

If I-90 had its own mileage and distance-based exits, it would have the highest exit number in the state (385). MA border is just shy of 386. If NY 17/I-86 were mile-based, it would only get to 381. With Thruway miles, 496.00 is at the PA border.

For another oddity: Montauk Point is approximately even longitudinally with Worcester, Massachusetts and a couple miles west of the eastern border of Connecticut.

I am referring to 420 milepost signs being popular withing some population groups.. and NY doesn't reach that without Thruway trick.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on January 11, 2017, 09:33:03 AM
I'm surprised that the State of NY hasn't assigned a state route number to the entire Thruway.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on January 11, 2017, 05:49:37 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2017, 08:23:20 AM
Quote from: cl94 on January 10, 2017, 10:10:37 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 10, 2017, 09:56:09 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 10, 2017, 11:50:28 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 10, 2017, 11:46:14 AM

I guess PA is tucked in the Northeast where every other state (except for NY) is small...so it may just be psychological that it seems like the state goes on forever.

And unlike most other interstates within a state, the PA Turnpike & I-80 don't go thru any major cities either.  You can travel both the PA Turnpike and I-80 end-to-end and you'll mostly see trees and farms the entire way.  You'll never go thru an actual city, which most 2di interstates fairly often, especially out east.
BTW, mileage-wise NY does a dirty trick having contionious mileposts on Thruway as it goes from I-87 to I-90. It does reach infamous 420 miles league somewhere in Buffalo (I saw 419.9 myself) - something that would not happen if honest I-90 and I-87 mileages were used..
Even with its own mileage, I-90 in NY is longer than I-80 in PA (385 miles vs. 310).  Of course, I-90 actually passes through the Buffalo, Syracuse, and Albany metro areas, so there's stuff to break up the rural scenery.

The same is true for I-87 (333 miles).

I-87 is deceptive, because it goes from nearly the southernmost point of the state to the northernmost point.

If I-90 had its own mileage and distance-based exits, it would have the highest exit number in the state (385). MA border is just shy of 386. If NY 17/I-86 were mile-based, it would only get to 381. With Thruway miles, 496.00 is at the PA border.

For another oddity: Montauk Point is approximately even longitudinally with Worcester, Massachusetts and a couple miles west of the eastern border of Connecticut.

I am referring to 420 milepost signs being popular withing some population groups.. and NY doesn't reach that without Thruway trick.

I know damn well what you're talking about. The mile marker in question is just east of Exit 50 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9520851,-78.7566772,3a,48.4y,274.65h,83.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_UbdLZTlwy3ehZjBIeYe2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).

Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 11, 2017, 09:33:03 AM
I'm surprised that the State of NY hasn't assigned a state route number to the entire Thruway.

Why bother? Entire thing has a shield that is posted pretty prominently and often (although rarely on the Thruway system itself).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 11, 2017, 07:48:50 PM
Quote from: cl94 on January 11, 2017, 05:49:37 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 11, 2017, 08:23:20 AM

I am referring to 420 milepost signs being popular withing some population groups.. and NY doesn't reach that without Thruway trick.

I know damn well what you're talking about. The mile marker in question is just east of Exit 50 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9520851,-78.7566772,3a,48.4y,274.65h,83.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_UbdLZTlwy3ehZjBIeYe2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Actually I didn't see 420 on westbound side last month; but 419.9 was there..
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on January 12, 2017, 04:34:07 AM
Nova Scotia is Canada's second smallest province but still it's 500 miles from tip to tip. Rotate the province on Yarmouth at the southern tip and it would stretch to Long Island NY.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on January 12, 2017, 02:26:42 PM
Speaking of West Virginia, I've seen a list of state capitals that are closer to the eastern panhandle than is Charleston. I know it includes Harrisburg, Annapolis, Dover and Richmond. I think possibly Trenton as well?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on January 12, 2017, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 12, 2017, 02:26:42 PM
Speaking of West Virginia, I've seen a list of state capitals that are closer to the eastern panhandle than is Charleston. I know it includes Harrisburg, Annapolis, Dover and Richmond. I think possibly Trenton as well?

Depends on if you use road mileage or "as the crow flies".   This likewise applies to Raleigh.  If you consider first level jurisdictions and not just states, it is also closer to DC city hall. 

Both of WV's panhandles are the result of tortured history and politics from centuries ago.  Most people living there would be much better served by the states they naturally really belong in.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: doorknob60 on January 12, 2017, 06:00:22 PM
Boise has a larger city population than Salt Lake City (216,282 vs. 191,180).
San Diego, CA is farther east than part of the Oregon-Idaho border (though the two are at roughly the same longitude).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2017, 06:20:23 PM
The buoy at the Southern Most Point at the south end of Whitehead Street in downtown Key West isn't the southern most point.  The Trumam Annex portion of the Navy Base directly west of the buoy is more to the south.  But the Truman Annex is actually dredge land fill and the end of Whitehead Street would have been the southern most point prior. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 12, 2017, 10:25:22 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on January 12, 2017, 06:00:22 PM
Boise has a larger city population than Salt Lake City (216,282 vs. 191,180).

I've known a bunch of families that have moved from SLC to Boise.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on January 13, 2017, 12:22:25 AM
Seattle is due north of San Francisco, if you skim their respective shores a bit.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 13, 2017, 02:09:00 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2017, 06:20:23 PM
The buoy at the Southern Most Point at the south end of Whitehead Street in downtown Key West isn't the southern most point.  The Trumam Annex portion of the Navy Base directly west of the buoy is more to the south.  But the Truman Annex is actually dredge land fill and the end of Whitehead Street would have been the southern most point prior. 

Well, except that there's other land in Florida still farther south than any of Key West.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 13, 2017, 09:09:42 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 13, 2017, 02:09:00 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2017, 06:20:23 PM
The buoy at the Southern Most Point at the south end of Whitehead Street in downtown Key West isn't the southern most point.  The Trumam Annex portion of the Navy Base directly west of the buoy is more to the south.  But the Truman Annex is actually dredge land fill and the end of Whitehead Street would have been the southern most point prior. 

Well, except that there's other land in Florida still farther south than any of Key West.


Fairly certain it is Ballast Key out in the Mules.  Wrote that up yesterday on the phone, figured the odd factoid about dredging in Key West would be enough until someone pointed out the other Keys to the west when I had access to a map.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on January 13, 2017, 05:04:04 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlington_County,_Virginia

Arlington, Virginia has the same population density as Los Angeles (City)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_County,_California

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on January 17, 2017, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 13, 2017, 12:22:25 AM
Seattle is due north of San Francisco, if you skim their respective shores a bit.

Yes, I worked it out from an old house I lived in in Seattle, 800 miles exactly south would put my in S.F. Bay.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: slorydn1 on January 18, 2017, 12:14:43 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 13, 2017, 09:09:42 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 13, 2017, 02:09:00 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2017, 06:20:23 PM
The buoy at the Southern Most Point at the south end of Whitehead Street in downtown Key West isn't the southern most point.  The Trumam Annex portion of the Navy Base directly west of the buoy is more to the south.  But the Truman Annex is actually dredge land fill and the end of Whitehead Street would have been the southern most point prior. 

Well, except that there's other land in Florida still farther south than any of Key West.


Fairly certain it is Ballast Key out in the Mules.  Wrote that up yesterday on the phone, figured the odd factoid about dredging in Key West would be enough until someone pointed out the other Keys to the west when I had access to a map.

I still think you got it right, though, because I think the whole "point" of Southern Most Point (no pun intended) is that it's the southern most point in the United States that a person could get to from the mainland without having to fly or float to get there. I mean, obviously anywhere in Hawaii, for example, is well south of Key West, so what point would there be designating a place in Florida as southern most if they had to include places one would have to fly or take a boat to.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 18, 2017, 07:48:21 AM
Quote from: slorydn1 on January 18, 2017, 12:14:43 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 13, 2017, 09:09:42 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 13, 2017, 02:09:00 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2017, 06:20:23 PM
The buoy at the Southern Most Point at the south end of Whitehead Street in downtown Key West isn't the southern most point.  The Trumam Annex portion of the Navy Base directly west of the buoy is more to the south.  But the Truman Annex is actually dredge land fill and the end of Whitehead Street would have been the southern most point prior. 

Well, except that there's other land in Florida still farther south than any of Key West.


Fairly certain it is Ballast Key out in the Mules.  Wrote that up yesterday on the phone, figured the odd factoid about dredging in Key West would be enough until someone pointed out the other Keys to the west when I had access to a map.

I still think you got it right, though, because I think the whole "point" of Southern Most Point (no pun intended) is that it's the southern most point in the United States that a person could get to from the mainland without having to fly or float to get there. I mean, obviously anywhere in Hawaii, for example, is well south of Key West, so what point would there be designating a place in Florida as southern most if they had to include places one would have to fly or take a boat to.

I believe Hawaii was not a state when the Southernmost Point monument was erected (although it would have been a territory). But in general, yes, practical accessibility is the idea of the thing more than geographical accuracy.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on January 18, 2017, 10:44:59 AM
It's a photo op, actual facts are annoying things.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on January 18, 2017, 05:52:54 PM
I believe the actual southernmost point is in American Samoa (which I think is the only part of the US south of the equator, but I don't know the locations of all the guano islands).

Furthest south incorporated point is in Palmyra Atoll (which, interestingly enough, is on the other side of the international date line and was separated from Hawaii for some reason; not aware of anything else on that side of the date line, but again, guano islands).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 18, 2017, 10:15:38 PM
Quote from: slorydn1 on January 18, 2017, 12:14:43 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 13, 2017, 09:09:42 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 13, 2017, 02:09:00 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2017, 06:20:23 PM
The buoy at the Southern Most Point at the south end of Whitehead Street in downtown Key West isn't the southern most point.  The Trumam Annex portion of the Navy Base directly west of the buoy is more to the south.  But the Truman Annex is actually dredge land fill and the end of Whitehead Street would have been the southern most point prior. 

Well, except that there's other land in Florida still farther south than any of Key West.


Fairly certain it is Ballast Key out in the Mules.  Wrote that up yesterday on the phone, figured the odd factoid about dredging in Key West would be enough until someone pointed out the other Keys to the west when I had access to a map.

I still think you got it right, though, because I think the whole "point" of Southern Most Point (no pun intended) is that it's the southern most point in the United States that a person could get to from the mainland without having to fly or float to get there. I mean, obviously anywhere in Hawaii, for example, is well south of Key West, so what point would there be designating a place in Florida as southern most if they had to include places one would have to fly or take a boat to.

I'm pretty sure the point of the monument is to be at the southernmost point that you can travel over land or road to in the Continental United States.   Which I suppose is still technically true to an extent...but then again even Fort Zachery Taylor is accessible to civilians.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on January 18, 2017, 10:20:06 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 18, 2017, 10:15:38 PM
Quote from: slorydn1 on January 18, 2017, 12:14:43 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 13, 2017, 09:09:42 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 13, 2017, 02:09:00 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 12, 2017, 06:20:23 PM
The buoy at the Southern Most Point at the south end of Whitehead Street in downtown Key West isn't the southern most point.  The Trumam Annex portion of the Navy Base directly west of the buoy is more to the south.  But the Truman Annex is actually dredge land fill and the end of Whitehead Street would have been the southern most point prior. 

Well, except that there's other land in Florida still farther south than any of Key West.


Fairly certain it is Ballast Key out in the Mules.  Wrote that up yesterday on the phone, figured the odd factoid about dredging in Key West would be enough until someone pointed out the other Keys to the west when I had access to a map.

I still think you got it right, though, because I think the whole "point" of Southern Most Point (no pun intended) is that it's the southern most point in the United States that a person could get to from the mainland without having to fly or float to get there. I mean, obviously anywhere in Hawaii, for example, is well south of Key West, so what point would there be designating a place in Florida as southern most if they had to include places one would have to fly or take a boat to.

I'm pretty sure the point of the monument is to be at the southernmost point that you can travel over land or road to in the Continental United States.   Which I suppose is still technically true to an extent...but then again even Fort Zachery Taylor is accessible to civilians.  :rolleyes:

The only extremity you can easily and legally get to is the easternmost point in Maine. Definitely worth the long drive.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on January 19, 2017, 07:06:58 AM
Keeping with the theme of geographic points, during a trip out to the plains states many years ago, I went to the point that my atlas marked as the geographic center of the US.  It was about 20 or so miles north of Belle Fourche, SD.  I found a spot that had what looked like an abandoned parking area but no monument or anything.  I went back to the town's visitor center, and when I asked them about the geographic center of the US, their response was, "We moved it into town."

Huh?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 19, 2017, 08:54:30 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 19, 2017, 07:06:58 AM
Keeping with the theme of geographic points, during a trip out to the plains states many years ago, I went to the point that my atlas marked as the geographic center of the US.  It was about 20 or so miles north of Belle Fourche, SD.  I found a spot that had what looked like an abandoned parking area but no monument or anything.  I went back to the town's visitor center, and when I asked them about the geographic center of the US, their response was, "We moved it into town."

Huh?
I bet it is quite difficult to define that point strictly. So making it about right, while providing some accommodation to visitors actually can make some sense.
Similar thing with South pole: there is a well established ceremonial point:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Amundsen-scott-south_pole_station_2007.jpg/640px-Amundsen-scott-south_pole_station_2007.jpg)
And a small detail: actual pole is 600 feet away.
There are also some funny stories about how monuments marking Europe-Asia line in Urals are offset to points where there is enough room for some parking, since line by definition  goes along the top of mountain ridge.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on January 19, 2017, 01:33:43 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 18, 2017, 05:52:54 PM
I believe the actual southernmost point is in American Samoa (which I think is the only part of the US south of the equator, but I don't know the locations of all the guano islands).

If you're going to count territories, how about Amundsen-Scott Station?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: busman_49 on January 19, 2017, 01:37:23 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 19, 2017, 07:06:58 AM
Keeping with the theme of geographic points, during a trip out to the plains states many years ago, I went to the point that my atlas marked as the geographic center of the US.  It was about 20 or so miles north of Belle Fourche, SD.  I found a spot that had what looked like an abandoned parking area but no monument or anything.  I went back to the town's visitor center, and when I asked them about the geographic center of the US, their response was, "We moved it into town."

Huh?

:-D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 19, 2017, 02:57:33 PM
Quote from: busman_49 on January 19, 2017, 01:37:23 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on January 19, 2017, 07:06:58 AM
Keeping with the theme of geographic points, during a trip out to the plains states many years ago, I went to the point that my atlas marked as the geographic center of the US.  It was about 20 or so miles north of Belle Fourche, SD.  I found a spot that had what looked like an abandoned parking area but no monument or anything.  I went back to the town's visitor center, and when I asked them about the geographic center of the US, their response was, "We moved it into town."

Huh?

:-D

You know, I just read something where the geographic center of North America was "moved"–recalculated, anyway, to where else but the town of Center, ND. :-D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 19, 2017, 03:02:49 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 19, 2017, 01:33:43 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 18, 2017, 05:52:54 PM
I believe the actual southernmost point is in American Samoa (which I think is the only part of the US south of the equator, but I don't know the locations of all the guano islands).

If you're going to count territories, how about Amundsen-Scott Station?
I don't think that would count. US reserves right to claim Antarctic territories, but no such claim is actually made. I suspect station would be considered similar to ships - homeland laws are applied to people and property, but not territory. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 19, 2017, 03:47:28 PM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on January 19, 2017, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 19, 2017, 03:02:49 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 19, 2017, 01:33:43 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 18, 2017, 05:52:54 PM
I believe the actual southernmost point is in American Samoa (which I think is the only part of the US south of the equator, but I don't know the locations of all the guano islands).

If you're going to count territories, how about Amundsen-Scott Station?
I don't think that would count. US reserves right to claim Antarctic territories, but no such claim is actually made. I suspect station would be considered similar to ships - homeland laws are applied to people and property, but not territory. 

So if one of the researchers wallops another researcher over the head in a rage and kills them, under what laws is the attacker prosecuted?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 19, 2017, 05:28:54 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 19, 2017, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: kalvado on January 19, 2017, 03:02:49 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 19, 2017, 01:33:43 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 18, 2017, 05:52:54 PM
I believe the actual southernmost point is in American Samoa (which I think is the only part of the US south of the equator, but I don't know the locations of all the guano islands).

If you're going to count territories, how about Amundsen-Scott Station?
I don't think that would count. US reserves right to claim Antarctic territories, but no such claim is actually made. I suspect station would be considered similar to ships - homeland laws are applied to people and property, but not territory. 

So if one of the researchers wallops another researcher over the head in a rage and kills them, under what laws is the attacker prosecuted?
That is a messy question, actually. As far as I understand, if two US researchers are involved and that happened on US base, US laws should work and FBI would handle the case.
If US researcher hits Norwegian guy on Russian station in Australian claim zone.....  Most likely flag jurisdiction would apply - law of the country which operates the station. Same thing works on ships, for example. And most likely in case of Russian Vostok station,  Australia would make an effort to set precedent of enforcing their laws within the claim zone.
And  I have hard time thinking about Panama dealing  with a crime on Carnival cruise ship operating Miami-Bahamas with several US citizens involved - FBI would be the first in lline: https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/testimony/crimes-against-americans-on-cruise-ships 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: sparker on January 20, 2017, 06:12:11 AM
Quote from: doorknob60 on January 12, 2017, 06:00:22 PM
Boise has a larger city population than Salt Lake City (216,282 vs. 191,180).

Not surprising; most of the growth in the SLC area has occurred in the various suburbs arrayed, for the most part, along I-15 to the north and south of the central city and which are mostly incorporated cities in their own right.  The fact that SLC is more or less hemmed in by its own suburbs in the most readily developed areas keeps the expansion of the central city in check.  Boise, on the other hand, "anchors" the east side of the "Treasure Valley" extended metro area and has had room to expand its own city limits without encroaching on other chartered jurisdictions, so it is more free to expand to accommodate an enlarged population.  The other cities in the region featuring sizeable populations (Nampa, Caldwell, etc.) are several miles to the west; the only significant city adjacent to Boise, Meridian, does occupy a space close to the west side of Boise -- but the capital city still has room to expand south and east -- and even a bit north into the foothills.  IIRC, projections show incorporated Boise exceeding 300K population by 2025. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 20, 2017, 08:32:47 AM
SLC has also experienced an economic hollowing of its downtown area and areas south of downtown.  The Mormons tried to come to the rescue by building a mall near Temple Square a few years back.  Not sure if the mall has been successful or is still being propped up.

For as long as I've been alive, LDS Church leaders have spoken romantically of the Salt Lake Valley -- things like, "...and on that wonderful 24th day in July 1847, the pioneers entered this beautiful, fertile valley."  I think the idea of the valley being beautiful has caused a lot of people to simply not recognize the sprawl and how ugly the valley has become (my father also jokes now whenever someone refers to Point of the Mountain that there really isn't a point anymore now that it's been dug out).  Throw in the inversions and horrific air quality which pediatricians are now saying is so bad that people should really consider it in their decisions to have children (http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/sltrib/news/55825755-78/pollution-utah-birth-studies.html.csp). 

Anyway, all I'm saying is that the population growth in Utah does equal sprawl and Utah is now living with the consequences of waiting to consider urban planning until after the fact, no matter how rosy their rosy-colored glasses are.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on January 20, 2017, 02:20:23 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalawao_County,_Hawaii

The smallest populated county in the United states is Kalawao County, Hawaii and has only 89 people.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 20, 2017, 03:54:15 PM
Quote from: bing101 on January 20, 2017, 02:20:23 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalawao_County,_Hawaii

The smallest populated county in the United states is Kalawao County, Hawaii and has only 89 people.

What point of conventional wisdom does that defy?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 20, 2017, 04:28:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 20, 2017, 03:54:15 PM
Quote from: bing101 on January 20, 2017, 02:20:23 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalawao_County,_Hawaii

The smallest populated county in the United states is Kalawao County, Hawaii and has only 89 people.

What point of conventional wisdom does that defy?
Maybe this should tell us that leprosy is very treatable today, so isolating those infected (that is 20-40 people annually in US) at the most distant point is a thing of a past? And that county is just a former leprosy settlement. Not geographical common wisdom, but probably average person doesn't think about leprosy at all these days
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: wxfree on January 21, 2017, 01:51:37 AM
Buzzfeed has a list of some pretty good ones.  The one that most impressed me is the first one.  The closest U.S. state to Africa is ... Maine.  Florida is more than 900 miles further away.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/terripous/mind-blowing-geography-facts-thatll-change-how-you-think (https://www.buzzfeed.com/terripous/mind-blowing-geography-facts-thatll-change-how-you-think)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on January 21, 2017, 03:35:58 AM
Quote from: wxfree on January 21, 2017, 01:51:37 AM
The closest U.S. state to Africa is ... Maine.  Florida is more than 900 miles further away.
That actually makes sense when you think about it for a bit, mostly due to the curvature of the earth.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on January 21, 2017, 04:36:06 AM
Or the eastward direction of the east coast and that Africa gets as far north as North Carolina.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 21, 2017, 05:21:00 AM
Quote from: wxfree on January 21, 2017, 01:51:37 AMThe closest U.S. state to Africa is ... Maine.  Florida is more than 900 miles further away.

I already somehow pointed that out (The Canary Islands are off the African coast):
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 03, 2015, 09:32:24 AMWhat is mind-blogging, is that Hamlin ME is also the closest point of the US to the Canary Islands, despite them being located across the ocean from Florida.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 21, 2017, 11:52:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 20, 2017, 03:54:15 PM
Quote from: bing101 on January 20, 2017, 02:20:23 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalawao_County,_Hawaii

The smallest populated county in the United states is Kalawao County, Hawaii and has only 89 people.

What point of conventional wisdom does that defy?

Used to be Loving County, TX, but the drilling boom raised its population a tad.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on January 22, 2017, 11:44:48 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise,_Nevada


Paradise, NV its officially in Clark County, NV Jurisdiction but is usually mistaken as a Las Vegas city district but not even in Las Vegas city territory.

It's land area is approximately the same size as San Francisco and has 200k people.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=naDCCW5TSpU
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on May 22, 2017, 06:58:27 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._municipalities_in_multiple_counties

Wow This defies logic for me that in many states in the United states some cities are allowed to be in multiple counties not just New York or Atlanta though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 7/8 on May 22, 2017, 07:07:59 PM
Quote from: bing101 on May 22, 2017, 06:58:27 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._municipalities_in_multiple_counties

Wow This defies logic for me that in many states in the United states some cities are allowed to be in multiple counties not just New York or Atlanta though.

And then there's Lloydminster (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloydminster), which is a single city in both Alberta and Saskatchewan (pretty cool).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on May 23, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: bing101 on May 22, 2017, 06:58:27 PM

Wow This defies logic for me that in many states in the United states some cities are allowed to be in multiple counties.

In WV it can cause some issues, as both courts/serious law enforcement and schools are operated on a county basis. 

Three of the places listed are actual cities, at least by WV standards.  Two are the county seats of one county (Wheeling for Ohio and Huntington for Cabell) and 95% or more of the population is in that one county, but the cops have to go to a much smaller town to deal with cases in the small part of the same town.  In Huntington that is the town of Wayne, which is a good half hour over bad roads.  In Wheeling the county only has on HS, which is, of course, in Wheeling, but the kids in the tiny part that is in Marshall have to bus much more than a half-hour to that county's HS.

The other case is Weirton, which is in the opposite situation, split down the middle and the county seat of neither.  Both counties have their county seats in what can only be described as wide spots in the road, north and south of Weirton.  This also places a burden on the cops and on the lawyers.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on May 23, 2017, 03:15:46 PM
Quote from: bing101 on May 22, 2017, 06:58:27 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._municipalities_in_multiple_counties

Wow This defies logic for me that in many states in the United states some cities are allowed to be in multiple counties not just New York or Atlanta though.

Leudimin's note: changed link to that of desktop version

In a similar vein there are four comarcas in my region of Aragon that cross provincial borders. All four have their seats in Huesca province and have municipalities in Zaragoza province. The most notable case is that of Murillo and Santa Eulalia de Gallego, both de iure in Zaragoza province, but just for juridic purposes, as they have the phone prefix ("area code") of Huesca, postcodes ("ZIP codes") of Huesca, and they are in a comarca that its seat is Huesca itself, thus making them de facto part of Huesca province.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
LA-Singapore was once the second longest flight behind NYC-Singapore, but there is LA-Sydney and NYC-Sydney is impossible. Source: an airfan.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 24, 2017, 01:24:06 AM
Currently I'm over 3,500 miles by car from the two points I was at today in Port Gamble opposed to last Friday in Key West.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Monroe+County+Courthouse,+Fleming+Street,+Key+West,+FL/Port+Gamble,+WA+98370/@34.8272064,-119.5383824,4z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x88d1b6e93d0c7b9d:0x69a9634212abe51b!2m2!1d-81.8047379!2d24.5545248!1m5!1m1!1s0x54901e4fc1e5086d:0xee742e351034e6dd!2m2!1d-122.5837581!2d47.8542606?hl=en

Which ironically puts me north of Ottawa today and south of several Mexican States on Friday.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 24, 2017, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
LA-Singapore was once the second longest flight behind NYC-Singapore, but there is LA-Sydney and NYC-Sydney is impossible. Source: an airfan.

That actually seems to fit quite well with conventional wisdom.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 24, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 24, 2017, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
LA-Singapore was once the second longest flight behind NYC-Singapore, but there is LA-Sydney and NYC-Sydney is impossible. Source: an airfan.

That actually seems to fit quite well with conventional wisdom.
Maybe I just don't get geography.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on May 24, 2017, 11:34:10 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 23, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
In WV it can cause some issues, as both courts/serious law enforcement and schools are operated on a county basis. 

Three of the places listed are actual cities, at least by WV standards.  Two are the county seats of one county (Wheeling for Ohio and Huntington for Cabell) and 95% or more of the population is in that one county, but the cops have to go to a much smaller town to deal with cases in the small part of the same town.  In Huntington that is the town of Wayne, which is a good half hour over bad roads.  In Wheeling the county only has on HS, which is, of course, in Wheeling, but the kids in the tiny part that is in Marshall have to bus much more than a half-hour to that county's HS.

Wayne County's whole existence puzzles me. It's not very wide, and could easily be swallowed up by Cabell, Lincoln and possibly Mingo counties, although Mingo seems to be a bit unwieldy and probably too large geographically.

I've always thought a number of West Virginia's counties were either too big or not well thought out in relation to towns.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on May 24, 2017, 04:02:17 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
LA-Singapore was once the second longest flight behind NYC-Singapore, but there is LA-Sydney and NYC-Sydney is impossible. Source: an airfan.

NYC to Sydney is 16,032 km (Source airmilescalculator.com)

The longest range airliner is the Boeing 777-200LR, with a range of 17,395km (Source: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/features/feature-the-longest-range-airliners-in-the-world/), so it could make the flight BUT not with the required safety margin.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Brandon on May 24, 2017, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: bing101 on May 22, 2017, 06:58:27 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._municipalities_in_multiple_counties

Wow This defies logic for me that in many states in the United states some cities are allowed to be in multiple counties not just New York or Atlanta though.

By Illinois standards, that's not weird nor odd at all.  We have a bunch of municipalities that cross county lines, including some of the biggest in the state (Chicago, Aurora, Joliet, Rockford, Elgin).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Brandon on May 24, 2017, 04:31:38 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 23, 2017, 11:17:40 AM
Quote from: bing101 on May 22, 2017, 06:58:27 PM

Wow This defies logic for me that in many states in the United states some cities are allowed to be in multiple counties.

In WV it can cause some issues, as both courts/serious law enforcement and schools are operated on a county basis. 

A bit different than Illinois, where the only issues caused are due to the court system.  School districts common cross and ignore county lines.  Policing is done within a municipality by the municipal police department.  County sheriff police only police the unincorporated areas.  The only things county sheriffs do within municipalities (unless contracted for policing) is to serve papers.

Example: Joliet is the county seat of Will County, but extends well into Kendall County.  The Joliet PD police the areas within the city, both within Will and Kendall Counties.  Those west of County Line Road will go to Yorkville for their courts, while those east will go to downtown Joliet.  The school district, Plainfield CUSD #202 also crosses the county line here.  Plainfield South High School is in Kendall County and in the City of Joliet, about a mile west of County Line Road.  It serves students from both sides of the county line.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 24, 2017, 04:36:07 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 24, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 24, 2017, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
LA-Singapore was once the second longest flight behind NYC-Singapore, but there is LA-Sydney and NYC-Sydney is impossible. Source: an airfan.

That actually seems to fit quite well with conventional wisdom.
Maybe I just don't get geography.

Well, what was it you found surprising about this? Perhaps that LA and Singapore are so far apart despite being "just across the Pacific" from each other? It's true that many maps break in the middle of that ocean, so we don't always grasp its immensity.

I think most people are more surprised that routes between Asia and North America are often shorter across the North Pole than over the Pacific (or Atlantic) Ocean.


iPhone
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on May 24, 2017, 05:12:12 PM
^^ I've enjoyed looking out of a plane at what was about midday local time somewhere northwest of Iceland and seeing darkness out the northern side as it was midwinter, and bright sunlight out the southern side as I was able to see past the normal horizon and we were only just scraping the arctic circle. This was LAX to LHR, so 33 degrees north to 51 degrees north, but here we were at 66 degrees north having flown over Greenland (which looks white even in summer when flying over it). The world is spherical and our maps make things confusing!

Auckland to the Persian Gulf has the two longest, with Dallas to Sydney in third place. SF to Singapore is 4th longest, and Joburg to Atlanta 5th. The Gulf/Arabia to LA take 6th-9th and Dubai-Houston rounds out the top 10. Simply put: the Pacific is BIG and the Atlantic is too.

The former LA to Singapore flight beat Dallas to Sydney by 300km.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 24, 2017, 05:32:54 PM
Quote from: english si on May 24, 2017, 05:12:12 PM
Simply put: the Pacific is BIG

It's big enough that there are lines going straight through the center of the earth that connect parts of the Pacific Ocean to other parts of itself.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on May 24, 2017, 06:01:29 PM
Quote from: english si on May 24, 2017, 05:12:12 PM
^^ I've enjoyed looking out of a plane at what was about midday local time somewhere northwest of Iceland and seeing darkness out the northern side as it was midwinter, and bright sunlight out the southern side as I was able to see past the normal horizon and we were only just scraping the arctic circle. This was LAX to LHR, so 33 degrees north to 51 degrees north, but here we were at 66 degrees north having flown over Greenland (which looks white even in summer when flying over it). The world is spherical and our maps make things confusing!

Auckland to the Persian Gulf has the two longest, with Dallas to Sydney in third place. SF to Singapore is 4th longest, and Joburg to Atlanta 5th. The Gulf/Arabia to LA take 6th-9th and Dubai-Houston rounds out the top 10. Simply put: the Pacific is BIG and the Atlantic is too.

The former LA to Singapore flight beat Dallas to Sydney by 300km.

If I was on one of those epic 15 hour flights, I might just as soon stop in the middle.  Stretch my legs, do some jumping jacks, use a bathroom bigger than a telephone booth.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: PColumbus73 on May 24, 2017, 07:49:17 PM
Miami is closer to the capitals of Cuba and The Bahamas than Tallahassee
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GenExpwy on May 25, 2017, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 24, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 24, 2017, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
LA-Singapore was once the second longest flight behind NYC-Singapore, but there is LA-Sydney and NYC-Sydney is impossible. Source: an airfan.
That actually seems to fit quite well with conventional wisdom.
Maybe I just don't get geography.

Maybe the point is that LA—Sydney is shorter than LA—Singapore (because it didn't crack the top two), but NYC—Sydney is longer than NYC—Singapore?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 25, 2017, 08:21:18 AM
Quote from: GenExpwy on May 25, 2017, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 24, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 24, 2017, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
LA-Singapore was once the second longest flight behind NYC-Singapore, but there is LA-Sydney and NYC-Sydney is impossible. Source: an airfan.
That actually seems to fit quite well with conventional wisdom.
Maybe I just don't get geography.

Maybe the point is that LA—Sydney is shorter than LA—Singapore (because it didn't crack the top two), but NYC—Sydney is longer than NYC—Singapore?
Yes, that's the point. Planes fly in very weird arcs.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on May 25, 2017, 09:51:06 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 25, 2017, 08:21:18 AMYes, that's the point. Planes fly in very weird arcs.
You mean straight lines? (https://earth.google.com/web/search/los+angeles+to+dubai/@68.7242835,31.22761393,-772.7301387a,20700976.48793221d,35y,24.44729787h,0t,0r/data=CigiJgokCacl49WE8khAEYTETd2uUyzAGZYpr3W-IRXAId0Rg46MCGHA)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on May 25, 2017, 10:40:55 AM
Quote from: english si on May 25, 2017, 09:51:06 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 25, 2017, 08:21:18 AMYes, that's the point. Planes fly in very weird arcs.
You mean straight lines? (https://earth.google.com/web/search/los+angeles+to+dubai/@68.7242835,31.22761393,-772.7301387a,20700976.48793221d,35y,24.44729787h,0t,0r/data=CigiJgokCacl49WE8khAEYTETd2uUyzAGZYpr3W-IRXAId0Rg46MCGHA)
I prefer to view that in gcmap..
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LAX-SYD,+JFK-SYD,+JFK-SIN,+LAX-SYD (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=LAX-SYD,+JFK-SYD,+JFK-SIN,+LAX-SIN)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on May 25, 2017, 10:51:34 AM
Quote from: english si on May 25, 2017, 09:51:06 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 25, 2017, 08:21:18 AMYes, that's the point. Planes fly in very weird arcs.
You mean straight lines? (https://earth.google.com/web/search/los+angeles+to+dubai/@68.7242835,31.22761393,-772.7301387a,20700976.48793221d,35y,24.44729787h,0t,0r/data=CigiJgokCacl49WE8khAEYTETd2uUyzAGZYpr3W-IRXAId0Rg46MCGHA)
However, planes still DO fly in very weird arcs - primarilly because winds can make certain paths longer than they are when measured on the ground. While car speed is measured with respect to the road and rarely affected by the wind - plane speed is with respect to air, and 50 mph talwind or headwind can easily make eastbound flight much shorter than westbound - between exact same airports. A funny example is last week flight from NYC to SFO being routed through western MA and north of Great Lakes - that being the short route because of strong jetstream over central US (many flights went with similar detour)
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1885/history/20170519/2030Z/KEWR/KSFO (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1885/history/20170519/2030Z/KEWR/KSFO)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 25, 2017, 11:14:37 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 25, 2017, 08:21:18 AM
Quote from: GenExpwy on May 25, 2017, 05:20:52 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 24, 2017, 07:55:18 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 24, 2017, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 23, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
LA-Singapore was once the second longest flight behind NYC-Singapore, but there is LA-Sydney and NYC-Sydney is impossible. Source: an airfan.
That actually seems to fit quite well with conventional wisdom.
Maybe I just don't get geography.

Maybe the point is that LA—Sydney is shorter than LA—Singapore (because it didn't crack the top two), but NYC—Sydney is longer than NYC—Singapore?
Yes, that's the point. Planes fly in very weird arcs.

Ah, ok, now I see. Yes, it's similar to how the closest point of land to the U.S. East Coast is often in Africa.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on May 25, 2017, 11:23:54 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 25, 2017, 11:14:37 AM
Ah, ok, now I see. Yes, it's similar to how the closest point of land to the U.S. East Coast is often in Africa.
Not sure what you mean here. Iceland  and UK are closer to most points on the coast. Or you mean mainland Europe?
Best one I could find - Ireland and Mauritania are approximately same distance from Miami:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3600nm%40MIA
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 26, 2017, 11:42:59 AM
Quote from: kalvado on May 25, 2017, 11:23:54 AM
Quote from: empirestate on May 25, 2017, 11:14:37 AM
Ah, ok, now I see. Yes, it's similar to how the closest point of land to the U.S. East Coast is often in Africa.
Not sure what you mean here. Iceland  and UK are closer to most points on the coast. Or you mean mainland Europe?
Best one I could find - Ireland and Mauritania are approximately same distance from Miami:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=3600nm%40MIA


I should have said, the closest point in the U.S. to Africa is in the Northeast (specifically Maine), rather than due west across to Florida.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on May 26, 2017, 11:54:31 AM
Quote from: bing101 on May 22, 2017, 06:58:27 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._municipalities_in_multiple_counties


I note Minooka, IL isn't on the list. Minooka resides in Grundy, Kendall and Will.

Come to think of it, I think Channahon is now in Will and Grundy also, given that both communities extended all the way to Brisbin Rd. since the exit on 80 opened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minooka,_Illinois

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channahon,_Illinois
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on May 26, 2017, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 24, 2017, 11:34:10 AM


Wayne County's whole existence puzzles me. It's not very wide, and could easily be swallowed up by Cabell, Lincoln and possibly Mingo counties, although Mingo seems to be a bit unwieldy and probably too large geographically.

I've always thought a number of West Virginia's counties were either too big or not well thought out in relation to towns.

It all comes down to history.  With a tiny number of exceptions the counties of what is now WV, as well as southwestern VA, were drawn by a continual subdividing of previous counties over about 100 years, mostly be people in Richmond who had never been much west of Charlottesville in their lives, working from inaccurate maps and without an appreciation for the topography.    The counties weree formed too early in the settlinng of the areas and do no reflect how things turned out, relative to travel and culture.

As to Wayne, it is a fascinating, at least to me, political entity, as the north of the county is Huntington and its suburbs with quite a bit of industry, but very quickly becomes very rural and poor as you go south.  The transition is quicker than other places in Appalachia.

As to Mingo, I'm sure you have driven it, but the south end of the county, around Gilbert, has a huge mountain with a very poor road seperating it from the rest of the county.  In driving time it is closer to the county seats of at least 4 other counties than its own.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on May 26, 2017, 03:15:49 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 26, 2017, 02:45:41 PM
As to Mingo, I'm sure you have driven it, but the south end of the county, around Gilbert, has a huge mountain with a very poor road seperating it from the rest of the county.  In driving time it is closer to the county seats of at least 4 other counties than its own.

My preferred route to Gilbert and any areas beyond on US 52 or WV 97 -- cross at Kermit, US 52 south, WV 65 south, US 119 north, WV 73 south, WV 10 south, WV 80 south. Yes, through Logan and Man.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 05, 2017, 12:42:44 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans

New Orleans is south of San Diego.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 05, 2017, 12:47:20 PM
Here's a California one; Minaret Summit and the Devils Postpile are located in Madera County despite being on the eastern flank of the Sierras.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on July 05, 2017, 07:03:08 PM
Quote from: bing101 on May 22, 2017, 06:58:27 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._municipalities_in_multiple_counties

Wow This defies logic for me that in many states in the United states some cities are allowed to be in multiple counties not just New York or Atlanta though.

Before 2001 Broomfield, CO was in parts of four separate counties: Boulder, Weld, Adams, and Jefferson. They got so tired of it that they became their own consolidated city-county.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tckma on July 07, 2017, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on July 05, 2017, 07:03:08 PM
Before 2001 Broomfield, CO was in parts of four separate counties: Boulder, Weld, Adams, and Jefferson. They got so tired of it that they became their own consolidated city-county.
The town of Mount Airy, MD is similarly in parts of four separate counties: Carroll, Frederick, Howard, and Montgomery.  It sits at the corner of those four counties, and Maryland doesn't seem to believe in actually incorporating towns and cities.  A lot of stuff there is named things like "Four County Baseball Association" and the likes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Airy,_Maryland
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on July 07, 2017, 05:51:45 PM
Not sure if there is another place where this occurs, but the town of Clarksville, Indiana, shares municipal boundaries with three different county seats. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on July 07, 2017, 11:24:58 PM
Watson, MO, and the extreme northwest corner of the Show Me State is WEST of Houston, TX...barely.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 08, 2017, 12:38:43 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 07, 2017, 11:24:58 PM
Watson, MO, and the extreme northwest corner of the Show Me State is WEST of Houston, TX...barely.
Can't really see it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on July 19, 2017, 12:42:20 AM
Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

Reason for this "illusion": probably older atlases that gave AR one page and gave OH a 2-page spread; OH having more than twice as many 2-digit interstates; and AR being next to TX, OK and MO. (Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on July 19, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
Quote from: kurumi on July 19, 2017, 12:42:20 AM
Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

(snip)

(Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)

According to the list I saw, MO is bigger than Arkansas
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on July 19, 2017, 11:48:25 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on July 19, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
Quote from: kurumi on July 19, 2017, 12:42:20 AM
Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

(snip)

(Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)

According to the list I saw, MO is bigger than Arkansas

My mistake. MO is larger, MS (instead of MO) is smaller.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on July 19, 2017, 03:27:45 PM
Quote from: kurumi on July 19, 2017, 12:42:20 AM
Reason for this "illusion": probably older atlases that gave AR one page and gave OH a 2-page spread.

Not just older ones; my 2017 Rand McNally atlas does something similar. Arkansas gets one 2-page spread, but Ohio has two 2-page spreads: an "Ohio/Northern" and "Ohio/Southern".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cpzilliacus on July 19, 2017, 04:25:45 PM
Most of the westernmost county of Maryland (Garrett  County) lies west of the Eastern Continental Divide, and thus in the watershed of the Mississippi River (as per the signs on I-68 near Green Lantern Road like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6825942,-79.0385997,3a,75y,101.33h,90.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1so80ElX_kgaFprEx9fVfkEg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and this (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6829249,-79.0372672,3a,75y,294.14h,84.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVgTgLlfyKzAAM5v9CSkOpw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)). 

Many of the East Coast states have territory that extends into the Mississippi watershed, including Maryland as per above, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on July 19, 2017, 05:01:59 PM
Quote from: kurumi on July 19, 2017, 12:42:20 AM
Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

Reason for this "illusion": probably older atlases that gave AR one page and gave OH a 2-page spread; OH having more than twice as many 2-digit interstates; and AR being next to TX, OK and MO. (Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)
I think of the "1 page states" as being smaller than they are..

NJ gets 2 pages. WY gets one. And Wyoming is gigantic in comparison.

LGMS428

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on July 20, 2017, 09:01:58 AM
Some things that physically make Arkansas seem smaller than it is are being a smaller population, and when you drive through, Little Rock is smack in the middle, making it seem like a shorter distance.  That and it's almost square shape...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2017, 09:37:58 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on July 19, 2017, 05:01:59 PM
Quote from: kurumi on July 19, 2017, 12:42:20 AM
Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

Reason for this "illusion": probably older atlases that gave AR one page and gave OH a 2-page spread; OH having more than twice as many 2-digit interstates; and AR being next to TX, OK and MO. (Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)
I think of the "1 page states" as being smaller than they are..

NJ gets 2 pages. WY gets one. And Wyoming is gigantic in comparison.

LGMS428



But NJ has a lot more 'stuff'.  It has way more towns than WY.  Trying to fit NJ on a single page ends up leaving out a lot of the various small towns that are fairly essential to such an atlas map.

Heck, Wyoming's two largest counties are both larger than the entire state of New Jersey!  Yet...the populations for both counties would only be considered a medium size *town* in NJ!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on July 20, 2017, 10:00:01 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 20, 2017, 09:37:58 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on July 19, 2017, 05:01:59 PM
Quote from: kurumi on July 19, 2017, 12:42:20 AM
Arkansas always seemed (to me) like it would fit inside Ohio with a little room to spare.

Nope.

AR (53K square miles) is larger than OH (44K), PA (46K), and even NC (52.6K). If you exclude water area, AR is also larger than NY state.

Reason for this "illusion": probably older atlases that gave AR one page and gave OH a 2-page spread; OH having more than twice as many 2-digit interstates; and AR being next to TX, OK and MO. (Its other neighbors -- MO, LA, and TN -- well, Arkansas is bigger than those too.)
I think of the "1 page states" as being smaller than they are..

NJ gets 2 pages. WY gets one. And Wyoming is gigantic in comparison.

LGMS428



But NJ has a lot more 'stuff'.  It has way more towns than WY.  Trying to fit NJ on a single page ends up leaving out a lot of the various small towns that are fairly essential to such an atlas map.

Heck, Wyoming's two largest counties are both larger than the entire state of New Jersey!  Yet...the populations for both counties would only be considered a medium size *town* in NJ!
Yeah NJ has a lot more stuff. Its funny even though i know the size of states, because of the way they are laid out in atlases i think of cetrain states as much smaller than they are..The western states and Canadian provinces.. Even as knowlegeable as i am about geography i am sometimes surprised ehen i see a true scale mapa of North America..

Is Delaware really that tiny? And my God Nevada is huge!

LGMS428

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 20, 2017, 03:48:47 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drawbridge,_California. There's a ghost town near San Jose and its called Drawbridge, CA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttGi9F2MeWA
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 20, 2017, 03:56:58 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norristown,_California.

Well there's a ghost town called Hoboken, CA except this ghost town has been erased apparently by modern sprawl of Sacramento county.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 20, 2017, 04:09:18 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ghost_towns_in_California.


California has lots of Ghost Towns on the list. Some of the Ghost towns in Sacramento County became part of Folsom and the Folsom dam.

Some of the Ghost town listed in Los Angeles County later became parts of Santa Clarita.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2017, 04:16:43 PM
Hell there are hundreds of ghost towns and former rail sidings all over California that aren't even on those lists.  What will throw most for a loop is that there several hundred ghost towns in Florida of all places.  Most had something to do with; rails, lumber, citrus, or even phosphate mining. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 08:47:01 PM
The size of Maine throws people for a loop. Most people assume that it's a "small New England state" but it's almost the size of Indiana.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that? Also Milwaukee is closer to Indianapolis about 280 miles then to Minneapolis about 330 miles. Yet I will see some Vikings stuff sold around here but never any Colts stuff.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:34:59 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 08:47:01 PM
The size of Maine throws people for a loop. Most people assume that it's a "small New England state" but it's almost the size of Indiana.

Yep. Maine is as large as the rest of New England combined. It takes a loooooong time to travel I-95 through the state, even with the 70-75 mph speed limits.

Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 19, 2017, 04:25:45 PM
Many of the East Coast states have territory that extends into the Mississippi watershed, including Maryland as per above, New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia.

Yup. The Southern Tier of NY west of Allegany County (correct spelling) drains into the Ohio River. Chautauqua Lake, less than 8 miles from Lake Erie, drains into the Allegheny/Ohio/Mississippi. The watershed line is that close to Lake Erie. Similarly, most of the Southern Tier east of Allegany County drains into the Susquehanna, as does most of Central New York (Allegany County generally drains into Lake Ontario via the Genesee River). Further east in the state, the Hudson River in Glens Falls (far from the river's beginning) is about a mile from the St. Lawrence watershed. The summit of the Champlain Canal is actually in Hudson Falls, very close to where it leaves the Hudson. As far as Pennsylvania (a Great Lakes state), the only areas draining into the lakes themselves are the I-90 corridor and near the Genesee River.

New York actually has a shocking amount of ghost towns as well. Several mining towns in the Adirondacks (Tahawus being one of the most famous and definitely worth a visit) are abandoned and several towns in the Catskills were condemned for construction of New York City's reservoirs.

Quote from: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 09:44:58 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:34:59 PM

Quote from: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 09:44:58 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:34:59 PM

Quote from: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Eh, Buffalo is weird. Not a lot of baseball fans in general and a surprising amount root for Boston because they hate NYC.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 10:01:13 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 09:44:58 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:34:59 PM

Quote from: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Eh, Buffalo is weird. Not a lot of baseball fans in general and a surprising amount root for Boston because they hate NYC.

Eh I'd buy it. It's kind of hard for me to associate the Yankees with the North Country, Central and Western New York. The Yankees ARE NYC (and maybe the Hudson Valley up to Albany) to me. I wonder if people outside of New England feel the same about the Sox and northern New England though.

How many baseball cities is Buffalo closer to than New York City? I'm guessing Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Toronto.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 10:22:52 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 10:01:13 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 09:44:58 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:34:59 PM

Quote from: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Eh, Buffalo is weird. Not a lot of baseball fans in general and a surprising amount root for Boston because they hate NYC.

Eh I'd buy it. It's kind of hard for me to associate the Yankees with the North Country, Central and Western New York. The Yankees ARE NYC (and maybe the Hudson Valley up to Albany) to me. I wonder if people outside of New England feel the same about the Sox and northern New England though.

How many baseball cities is Buffalo closer to than New York City? I'm guessing Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Toronto.

Correct. North Country generally roots Yankees excluding the Champlain Valley. Albany is mixed, but mostly Yankees. Central NY is Yankees territory as well. It's really only Western NY that has the crazy hatred of NYC (while people elsewhere hate them, they understand that NYC provides all the money). As far as football, on the other hand, Upstate outside the Hudson Valley and Albany metro is Bills country.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 20, 2017, 10:23:16 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 10:01:13 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 09:44:58 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:34:59 PM

Quote from: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Eh, Buffalo is weird. Not a lot of baseball fans in general and a surprising amount root for Boston because they hate NYC.

Eh I'd buy it. It's kind of hard for me to associate the Yankees with the North Country, Central and Western New York. The Yankees ARE NYC (and maybe the Hudson Valley up to Albany) to me. I wonder if people outside of New England feel the same about the Sox and northern New England though.

How many baseball cities is Buffalo closer to than New York City? I'm guessing Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Toronto.

I really wouldn't say Berkshire County, MA is Yankee territory.  The NY/MA  border is a pretty hard line between The Nation and The Empire, as is the NY/VT border, except that there seems to be more of a gradual shift as you get closer to the Canadian border, as there even used to be somewhat of an Expos fan base mixed in that area because it's closer to Montreal.  There are a couple of Yankee fan pockets in New England outside of CT: Federal Hill in Providence, The North End in Boston, and the area around Fort Kent, ME.  On the other hand, the forks of Long Island have almost as many Red Sox fans as there are Yankees (and Mets) fans.  The real debate is:  Where does the proverbial "Munson/Nixon Line" fall in CT?  Personally, I see it this way:  Anywhere west of the Housatonic River is Yankee Territory.  Anywhere east of the Connecticut River valley is Red Sox, and the area in between is "The Gray Zone" where all bets are off and allegiance divide neighbors and families.  New Haven area leans NY, while the Hartford area north leans Red Sox.  I am southwest of Hartford, and I truly have to say my town is 50/50 (although if you told my cable company that before 2005, they would have laughed at you because they picked up YES on day one but refused to add NESN until The Curse was reversed).   
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 10:52:22 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 20, 2017, 10:23:16 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 10:01:13 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 09:44:58 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:34:59 PM

Quote from: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that?

Same reason people in Toledo root for OSU instead of Michigan.

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Eh, Buffalo is weird. Not a lot of baseball fans in general and a surprising amount root for Boston because they hate NYC.

Eh I'd buy it. It's kind of hard for me to associate the Yankees with the North Country, Central and Western New York. The Yankees ARE NYC (and maybe the Hudson Valley up to Albany) to me. I wonder if people outside of New England feel the same about the Sox and northern New England though.

How many baseball cities is Buffalo closer to than New York City? I'm guessing Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Toronto.

I really wouldn't say Berkshire County, MA is Yankee territory.  The NY/MA  border is a pretty hard line between The Nation and The Empire, as is the NY/VT border, except that there seems to be more of a gradual shift as you get closer to the Canadian border, as there even used to be somewhat of an Expos fan base mixed in that area because it's closer to Montreal.  There are a couple of Yankee fan pockets in New England outside of CT: Federal Hill in Providence, The North End in Boston, and the area around Fort Kent, ME.  On the other hand, the forks of Long Island have almost as many Red Sox fans as there are Yankees (and Mets) fans.  The real debate is:  Where does the proverbial "Munson/Nixon Line" fall in CT?  Personally, I see it this way:  Anywhere west of the Housatonic River is Yankee Territory.  Anywhere east of the Connecticut River valley is Red Sox, and the area in between is "The Gray Zone" where all bets are off and allegiance divide neighbors and families.  New Haven area leans NY, while the Hartford area north leans Red Sox.  I am southwest of Hartford, and I truly have to say my town is 50/50 (although if you told my cable company that before 2005, they would have laughed at you because they picked up YES on day one but refused to add NESN until The Curse was reversed).

The Expos reach into New England and Northern New York has always been a question of mine. I assume that the Francophone communities along the border supported Montreal with maybe a slight boost in the Burlington, Vermont market because of the presence of the minor league team there. I assume that the Expos got a fair amount of coverage in the Burlington, VT market anyway because of the reach of local stations into Quebec (When I lived in NH, I was in that market and they claimed Montreal).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: amroad17 on July 21, 2017, 12:09:50 AM
The zip code in which I live is 83% Cincinnati Reds--some are as high as 85-86% in nearby zip codes.  I must be one of the 3% whose favorite team is the New York Yankees (a fan since 1975).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 21, 2017, 12:54:56 AM
I question the validity of this poll for my ZIP Code, since it is a poll done by a New York paper.  There is NO WAY that there are 12% more Yankee fans in my ZIP code than Red Sox fans.  Most readers of the Times are New York centric.  If this poll were performed by the Boston Globe, it would be the opposite.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on July 21, 2017, 01:07:42 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 21, 2017, 12:54:56 AM
I question the validity of this poll for my ZIP Code, since it is a poll done by a New York paper.  There is NO WAY that there are 12% more Yankee fans in my ZIP code than Red Sox fans.  Most readers of the Times are New York centric.  If this poll were performed by the Boston Globe, it would be the opposite.

Their methodology was based off of Facebook users who like the team page. It's imperfect but probably the best that you can do to get that microlevel of data.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: amroad17 on July 21, 2017, 01:48:29 AM
I also noticed that in the area I used to live in, the Hampton Roads area--specifically Chesapeake--the people there are mostly Yankees, Red Sox, or Braves fans.  You would think that an area that is, for the most part, Washington Redskins fans would have at least some interest in the Nationals or, to a lesser extent, the Orioles (Triple A farm club in Norfolk) than the Red Sox or Yankees.  I could see Braves fans there as our cable system at the time carried TBS and showed a lot of Braves games in the early to mid 1990's.  In fact, during the 1970's, 1980's, and early 1990's, the Hampton Roads area probably were mostly Mets fans as the Tidewater (later Norfolk) Tides were the Mets' Triple A farm club back then.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on July 21, 2017, 06:14:08 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on July 21, 2017, 01:48:29 AM
I also noticed that in the area I used to live in, the Hampton Roads area--specifically Chesapeake--the people there are mostly Yankees, Red Sox, or Braves fans.  You would think that an area that is, for the most part, Washington Redskins fans would have at least some interest in the Nationals or, to a lesser extent, the Orioles (Triple A farm club in Norfolk) than the Red Sox or Yankees.  I could see Braves fans there as our cable system at the time carried TBS and showed a lot of Braves games in the early to mid 1990's.  In fact, during the 1970's, 1980's, and early 1990's, the Hampton Roads area probably were mostly Mets fans as the Tidewater (later Norfolk) Tides were the Mets' Triple A farm club back then.

The Nats are a fairly new team, so many people were already fans of other teams.  If the area has an influx of residents from other areas, that can explain their dedication to other teams as well.  Florida has always had this problem with Tampa and Miami because many people are retirees, and aren't suddenly going to give up a team they watched for much of their lives for another team just because of the state they now live in.

In my NJ Turnpike days at Exit 1, I think the New Jersey Devils won the Stanley Cup.  Someone went thru my lane and commented that we didn't have anything signifying that fact.  I probably made a comment that I was really a Philadelphia Flyers fan.  He couldn't understand why I was a fan of a team 20 minutes away (in another state), rather than rooting for a team 2 hours away simply because they played in the state.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tchafe1978 on July 21, 2017, 06:26:58 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that? Also Milwaukee is closer to Indianapolis about 280 miles then to Minneapolis about 330 miles. Yet I will see some Vikings stuff sold around here but never any Colts stuff.

Geographically speaking, it's rather easy to determine that Chicago is closer to Milwaukee than Green Bay is simply by taking a casual glance at a map. It's not much of an oddity, really.

As far as being fans of a particular team, it's also not hard to understand why the majority of people in Milwaukee are Packers fans and not Bears fans. #1, The Bears are from that state to the south that contains all those FIBs. #2, Milwaukee has somewhat of an inferiority complex towards Chicago. #3 Milwaukee/Wisconsin are natural rivals with Chicago/Illinois. It has more to do with this than proximity. and #4 The Bears Still Suck! As for being a Colts fan stuck in Milwaukee, I have no explanation for you  :D .

If you want something of an oddity regarding sports fandom and location, there are quite a few Bears fans here in Southwest Wisconsin because the Bears used to hold training camp at UW-Platteville from 1984-2000.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on July 21, 2017, 09:11:37 AM
Sports.

- These fandom maps are like all self-selected discussions.    They are not properly a poll at all.  Not scientific.

-  If you go to Wikipedia's page "Major League Baseball blackout policy" you will find the truly goofy map of the claimed "in-market" of each baseball team.  This is based on claims from the 1970s, long before satellite TV (with later adjustments for new teams).  Pretty much each team just claimed whatever it wanted, leading to multiple "overlaps".  Iowa is claimed by 5 teams, southern Nevada is as well.  This means that you get blacked out of ALL of these teams in things like MLB EI or the MLB app.  Empty suit Selig claimed he was going to fix it, never did. 

- Two places that befuddle me as far as local fandom are Miami and Las Vegas.  I get retirees who keep their lifetime loyalities, but among younger people in both places people follow the team from "back home".  Even people who moved there at the start of their adult lives, and, more befuddling to me, people born and raised there, base their fandom on parents or even grandparents loyality and will call a town they have never lived in "back home". 

- What little time I have spent in the Tidewater, you see fans of all teams, because of all the military, which brings in people from all over.   

- The ENTIRE state of Virginia follows the Redskins.  Even places many hours closer to Cincinnati, Charlotte and Nashville.  But it stops at the state line in every case, although there are some Redskins fans in NC and the Tennessee side of the Tri-Cities left over from before the Panthers and Titans existed..

- The nationalized Braves fandom from the WTBS days seems to be ageing out.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2017, 09:23:37 AM
^^^

I seem to recall that before the Panthers that the majority of North Carolina followed the Red Skins.  Arizona had mostly Broncos fans for the longest time after the Cardinals moved to the city.  That really didn't change until the Cardinals started to get pretty good and built a new stadium.  Even stranger to me is that there a HUGE Nebraska Cornhusker fan base among people who aren't transplants in the Phoenix area.  I can get Denver given the somewhat close proximity but Nebraska?....even stranger it isn't like the Sun Devils have had a poor sports history.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 21, 2017, 09:30:49 AM
There are some weird oddities in that MLB blackout map.  Charlotte, NC, which is 500 miles from Great American Ballpark, is claimed by the Reds.  Parts of Northeast PA which are actually closer to Boston are claimed by the Pirates.  And Fishers Island, NY, which is closer to Boston than NYC, can't get the Red Sox.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Eth on July 21, 2017, 09:33:08 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 10:01:13 PM
How many baseball cities is Buffalo closer to than New York City? I'm guessing Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh, and Toronto.

By straight-line distance, all of those, and surprisingly also Baltimore (by 15-20 miles) and Philadelphia (by 10-15 miles). And Washington is a dead heat with NYC.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on July 21, 2017, 09:48:08 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 21, 2017, 09:30:49 AM
There are some weird oddities in that MLB blackout map.  Charlotte, NC, which is 500 miles from Great American Ballpark, is claimed by the Reds.  Parts of Northeast PA which are actually closer to Boston are claimed by the Pirates. 

Reds claim all of OH except metro Cleveland, all of KY, south western WV, all of TN, all of IN except metro Chicago, and, most fantastically the northern quarter of MS.  A fair Reds territory would give back the Toledo area, all of NC and MS, the Jackson Purchase in KY, and any part of IN north of the Indy TV market. 

Pirates claim all of PA except metro Philly, all of WV, the Buffalo area, extreme western MD, and not only the border rust belt areas of OH next to WV's northern panhande, but a swath of central OH all the way to Columbus.  A fair Pirates territory would be western PA, the northern edge of WV and a very small part of MD and OH. 

Indians claim all of OH except metro Cincy/Dayton, the same claim as the Reds in WV, the part of KY that gets WV TV stations, the NW quarter of PA, and Buffalo.  A fair claim would give back Toledo and forget about WV and KY totally. 

I get that the games are not available much on TV, because they are on mostly on Canadian only sports networks, but why doesn't Buffalo follow the Blue Jays?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 21, 2017, 10:01:59 AM
Red Sox claim all of New England except Fairfield County, CT.  A fair Red Sox territory would include Fairfield County, as well as the Capital District of NY, the Plattsburgh part of the Burlington VT/Plattsburgh NY market, and the forks of Long Island, NY.  In exchange, New York teams should be given access to all of VT except Windham County (part of the Boston market), Berkshire County and the Springfield area of MA, and all of RI.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Takumi on July 21, 2017, 11:38:51 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on July 21, 2017, 01:48:29 AM
I also noticed that in the area I used to live in, the Hampton Roads area--specifically Chesapeake--the people there are mostly Yankees, Red Sox, or Braves fans.  You would think that an area that is, for the most part, Washington Redskins fans would have at least some interest in the Nationals or, to a lesser extent, the Orioles (Triple A farm club in Norfolk) than the Red Sox or Yankees.  I could see Braves fans there as our cable system at the time carried TBS and showed a lot of Braves games in the early to mid 1990's.  In fact, during the 1970's, 1980's, and early 1990's, the Hampton Roads area probably were mostly Mets fans as the Tidewater (later Norfolk) Tides were the Mets' Triple A farm club back then.
Richmond had lots of Braves fans in the 1990s due to the Triple-A R-Braves being there. The national presence certainly helped things out, too. After the Braves moved to Gwinnett, which happened about the same time the parent club stopped broadcasting on TBS, it started to fade away. Now it's mostly a mix of Yankee, Red Sox, Nats, and O's fans (I'm one of the latter). Despite Richmond's new minor league team, the Double-A Flying Squirrels, being a Giants affiliate, you very rarely see any Giants fans around here. Although it is cool to have seen a few of their recent World Series championship players play before they made it to the bigs.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on July 21, 2017, 11:42:47 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 20, 2017, 08:47:01 PM
The size of Maine throws people for a loop. Most people assume that it's a "small New England state" but it's almost the size of Indiana.

US 1 in Maine (527 miles) is only 18 miles shorter than US 1 in Florida including the Keys (545 miles).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tckma on July 21, 2017, 01:27:44 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on July 20, 2017, 09:01:58 AM
Some things that physically make Arkansas seem smaller than it is are being a smaller population, and when you drive through, Little Rock is smack in the middle, making it seem like a shorter distance.  That and it's almost square shape...

I drove from St. Louis to Houston in April 2015.  Missouri seemed to go on forever but that's because we took US-67, and there was a part at which my wife said "I need to go to the bathroom" and we didn't find ANY place to stop, not even a porta-potty, for almost an hour and a half.  Arkansas seemed to never end, but I think that's because we pretty much went diagonally from the northeast corner of the state to the southwest corner via US-67 and then I-30.  Once we FINALLY got into Texas it was 8 or 9 PM.  Almost done, I thought, then we stopped at a Subway and I was told by the cashier that it was 4 1/2 hours further to Houston.

Then there's my cross-country drive in 2006.  "It's been THREE DAYS.  How am I STILL in California?"  Well, came in from the Las Vegas area on southbound I-15, then cut across and up to the San Francisco area via CA-58 and CA-99, crossed the Golden Gate and went up CA-1 for the scenery, then gave that up when my then-girlfriend started to worry about how long it was taking and we cut across to US-101 via CA-12, then all the way up US-101 to US-199 and then US-199 into Oregon.  PHEW!

Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:52:54 PM

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Having grown up in Mets Country on Long Island, with a family half-divided between the Mets and the Yankees, then having moved to the Boston area where I was hated on just for being From New York (heaven forfend), it's hard for me to imagine ANY part of Massachusetts, or New England as a whole for that matter, rooting for any other team besides the Red Sox.  Heck, most people I know who live in the Albany area seem to cheer for the Red Sox and the Patriots versus the Yankees and the Jets.

Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:06:39 PM
Anyone who has taken I-80 across Pennsylvania can testify to how that state seems to never end.

Anyone who has taken I-81 through Virginia from the West Viriginia line to the Tennessee line can testify to the fact that Virginia is actually larger than it seems, and seems to go on FOREVER.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TravelingBethelite on July 21, 2017, 04:48:31 PM
Quote from: tckma on July 21, 2017, 01:27:44 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on July 20, 2017, 09:01:58 AM
Some things that physically make Arkansas seem smaller than it is are being a smaller population, and when you drive through, Little Rock is smack in the middle, making it seem like a shorter distance.  That and it's almost square shape...

I drove from St. Louis to Houston in April 2015.  Missouri seemed to go on forever but that's because we took US-67, and there was a part at which my wife said "I need to go to the bathroom" and we didn't find ANY place to stop, not even a porta-potty, for almost an hour and a half.  Arkansas seemed to never end, but I think that's because we pretty much went diagonally from the northeast corner of the state to the southwest corner via US-67 and then I-30.  Once we FINALLY got into Texas it was 8 or 9 PM.  Almost done, I thought, then we stopped at a Subway and I was told by the cashier that it was 4 1/2 hours further to Houston.

Then there's my cross-country drive in 2006.  "It's been THREE DAYS.  How am I STILL in California?"  Well, came in from the Las Vegas area on southbound I-15, then cut across and up to the San Francisco area via CA-58 and CA-99, crossed the Golden Gate and went up CA-1 for the scenery, then gave that up when my then-girlfriend started to worry about how long it was taking and we cut across to US-101 via CA-12, then all the way up US-101 to US-199 and then US-199 into Oregon.  PHEW!

Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:52:54 PM

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Having grown up in Mets Country on Long Island, with a family half-divided between the Mets and the Yankees, then having moved to the Boston area where I was hated on just for being From New York (heaven forfend), it's hard for me to imagine ANY part of Massachusetts, or New England as a whole for that matter, rooting for any other team besides the Red Sox.  Heck, most people I know who live in the Albany area seem to cheer for the Red Sox and the Patriots versus the Yankees and the Jets.

Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:06:39 PM
Anyone who has taken I-80 across Pennsylvania can testify to how that state seems to never end.

Anyone who has taken I-81 through Virginia from the West Viriginia line to the Tennessee line can testify to the fact that Virginia is actually larger than it seems, and seems to go on FOREVER.

Now about Iowa...don't get me started on Iowa!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: PColumbus73 on July 21, 2017, 04:54:42 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on July 21, 2017, 04:48:31 PM
Quote from: tckma on July 21, 2017, 01:27:44 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on July 20, 2017, 09:01:58 AM
Some things that physically make Arkansas seem smaller than it is are being a smaller population, and when you drive through, Little Rock is smack in the middle, making it seem like a shorter distance.  That and it's almost square shape...

North Carolina feels like it never ends either. Especially US 421/NC 87 between Greensboro and Fayetteville.

I drove from St. Louis to Houston in April 2015.  Missouri seemed to go on forever but that's because we took US-67, and there was a part at which my wife said "I need to go to the bathroom" and we didn't find ANY place to stop, not even a porta-potty, for almost an hour and a half.  Arkansas seemed to never end, but I think that's because we pretty much went diagonally from the northeast corner of the state to the southwest corner via US-67 and then I-30.  Once we FINALLY got into Texas it was 8 or 9 PM.  Almost done, I thought, then we stopped at a Subway and I was told by the cashier that it was 4 1/2 hours further to Houston.

Then there's my cross-country drive in 2006.  "It's been THREE DAYS.  How am I STILL in California?"  Well, came in from the Las Vegas area on southbound I-15, then cut across and up to the San Francisco area via CA-58 and CA-99, crossed the Golden Gate and went up CA-1 for the scenery, then gave that up when my then-girlfriend started to worry about how long it was taking and we cut across to US-101 via CA-12, then all the way up US-101 to US-199 and then US-199 into Oregon.  PHEW!

Quote from: cl94 on July 20, 2017, 09:52:54 PM

Sports fandom is really more cultural than anything else and based almost entirely on media market. The parts of MA and VT that are in the Albany media market tends to be dominated by Yankees fans, same for the parts of NY that are in the Burlington media market. The Yankees have a national fanbase because they're most often featured on national TV and thus easy for most of the country to watch. If geographic proximity determined fandom then we'd see Toronto Blue Jays fans in Buffalo and Western New York. But Buffalo and the rest of New York State root for New York's American League team.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html#6,43.676,-88.120

Having grown up in Mets Country on Long Island, with a family half-divided between the Mets and the Yankees, then having moved to the Boston area where I was hated on just for being From New York (heaven forfend), it's hard for me to imagine ANY part of Massachusetts, or New England as a whole for that matter, rooting for any other team besides the Red Sox.  Heck, most people I know who live in the Albany area seem to cheer for the Red Sox and the Patriots versus the Yankees and the Jets.

Quote from: The Nature Boy on January 08, 2017, 09:06:39 PM
Anyone who has taken I-80 across Pennsylvania can testify to how that state seems to never end.

Anyone who has taken I-81 through Virginia from the West Viriginia line to the Tennessee line can testify to the fact that Virginia is actually larger than it seems, and seems to go on FOREVER.

Now about Iowa...don't get me started on Iowa!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on July 21, 2017, 07:09:50 PM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on July 21, 2017, 06:26:58 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that? Also Milwaukee is closer to Indianapolis about 280 miles then to Minneapolis about 330 miles. Yet I will see some Vikings stuff sold around here but never any Colts stuff.

Geographically speaking, it's rather easy to determine that Chicago is closer to Milwaukee than Green Bay is simply by taking a casual glance at a map. It's not much of an oddity, really.

As far as being fans of a particular team, it's also not hard to understand why the majority of people in Milwaukee are Packers fans and not Bears fans. #1, The Bears are from that state to the south that contains all those FIBs. #2, Milwaukee has somewhat of an inferiority complex towards Chicago. #3 Milwaukee/Wisconsin are natural rivals with Chicago/Illinois. It has more to do with this than proximity. and #4 The Bears Still Suck! As for being a Colts fan stuck in Milwaukee, I have no explanation for you  :D .

If you want something of an oddity regarding sports fandom and location, there are quite a few Bears fans here in Southwest Wisconsin because the Bears used to hold training camp at UW-Platteville from 1984-2000.
NW Indiana supports the Bears over the Colts and southern Illinois supports the Cards over the Cubs. So fan bases do cross state lines. I became a Colts fan becasue I liked Manning my choice to support them had nothing to do with location.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on July 21, 2017, 10:39:10 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 21, 2017, 07:09:50 PM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on July 21, 2017, 06:26:58 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on July 20, 2017, 09:33:07 PM
That Milwaukee is closer to Chicago then Green Bay. When will football fans that are around here realize that? Also Milwaukee is closer to Indianapolis about 280 miles then to Minneapolis about 330 miles. Yet I will see some Vikings stuff sold around here but never any Colts stuff.

Geographically speaking, it's rather easy to determine that Chicago is closer to Milwaukee than Green Bay is simply by taking a casual glance at a map. It's not much of an oddity, really.

As far as being fans of a particular team, it's also not hard to understand why the majority of people in Milwaukee are Packers fans and not Bears fans. #1, The Bears are from that state to the south that contains all those FIBs. #2, Milwaukee has somewhat of an inferiority complex towards Chicago. #3 Milwaukee/Wisconsin are natural rivals with Chicago/Illinois. It has more to do with this than proximity. and #4 The Bears Still Suck! As for being a Colts fan stuck in Milwaukee, I have no explanation for you  :D .

If you want something of an oddity regarding sports fandom and location, there are quite a few Bears fans here in Southwest Wisconsin because the Bears used to hold training camp at UW-Platteville from 1984-2000.
NW Indiana supports the Bears over the Colts and southern Illinois supports the Cards over the Cubs. So fan bases do cross state lines. I became a Colts fan becasue I liked Manning my choice to support them had nothing to do with location.

To be fair, both of those places have more in common with the cities that those teams represent than the rest of their state. NW Indiana is in Chicagoland and Southern Illinois has more in common with Missouri and Kentucky than Great Lakes region.

Like I said, broad scale sports fandom tends to be cultural.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on July 21, 2017, 11:16:43 PM
I don't know about the blackout rules or anything like that, but I do know that western Kentucky is Cardinals territory. There's a pretty sharp line between Reds and Cards country, but I'm not sure exactly where it is. Somewhere between I-65 and the Natcher Parkway, though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 21, 2017, 11:35:08 PM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on July 21, 2017, 06:26:58 AM

As far as being fans of a particular team, it's also not hard to understand why the majority of people in Milwaukee are Packers fans and not Bears fans. #1, The Bears are from that state to the south that contains all those FIBs. #2, Milwaukee has somewhat of an inferiority complex towards Chicago. #3 Milwaukee/Wisconsin are natural rivals with Chicago/Illinois. It has more to do with this than proximity. and #4 The Bears Still Suck! As for being a Colts fan stuck in Milwaukee, I have no explanation for you  :D .

5. The Packers used to play 2 home games a year at County Stadium in Milwaukee until the 1990's.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on July 22, 2017, 09:01:34 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 21, 2017, 11:35:08 PM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on July 21, 2017, 06:26:58 AM

As far as being fans of a particular team, it's also not hard to understand why the majority of people in Milwaukee are Packers fans and not Bears fans. #1, The Bears are from that state to the south that contains all those FIBs. #2, Milwaukee has somewhat of an inferiority complex towards Chicago. #3 Milwaukee/Wisconsin are natural rivals with Chicago/Illinois. It has more to do with this than proximity. and #4 The Bears Still Suck! As for being a Colts fan stuck in Milwaukee, I have no explanation for you  :D .

5. The Packers used to play 2 home games a year at County Stadium in Milwaukee until the 1990's.
actually 3.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on July 22, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Jacksonville FL, Columbus OH, and Charlotte NC are all larger in population than Denver, El Paso, Washington DC, Boston, Kansas City (MO and KS combined), Atlanta, Miami, and St. Louis.

There are 24 combinations here. While a few might not be surprising, most of them are.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 22, 2017, 11:15:57 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 20, 2017, 04:16:43 PM
Hell there are hundreds of ghost towns and former rail sidings all over California that aren't even on those lists.  What will throw most for a loop is that there several hundred ghost towns in Florida of all places.  Most had something to do with; rails, lumber, citrus, or even phosphate mining.

Also some of these ghost towns are now parts of other cities. Plus Drawbridge, CA is an abandoned town in the middle of the Bay area sprawl of Silicon valley.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on July 22, 2017, 11:29:05 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 21, 2017, 11:16:43 PM
I don't know about the blackout rules or anything like that, but I do know that western Kentucky is Cardinals territory. There's a pretty sharp line between Reds and Cards country, but I'm not sure exactly where it is. Somewhere between I-65 and the Natcher Parkway, though.

From my own limited experience in the area (dated a girl from there), Southern Illinois, Western Kentucky, and Southeast Missouri really form a cultural enclave that is distinct from the three states that they're apart of.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Desert Man on July 22, 2017, 05:07:40 PM
The Palm Springs area or Coachella Valley: Palm Springs is the most famous city, but not the largest (Indio), oldest (Coachella) nor the geographic center (Palm Desert). It's not a county of it's own either, the county seat is in Riverside, 60 miles from Palm Springs and the county's named after the seat. And the county goes to Blythe - 150 miles to the east. And Indio's original name before 1890 was Indian Wells, but there's an Indian Wells (pop: 4,600) 5 miles away, known to be the top 100 wealthiest towns in America and top 50 in California.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 24, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 22, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Jacksonville FL, Columbus OH, and Charlotte NC are all larger in population than Denver, El Paso, Washington DC, Boston, Kansas City (MO and KS combined), Atlanta, Miami, and St. Louis.

There are 24 combinations here. While a few might not be surprising, most of them are.
Metro area, however are different.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on July 25, 2017, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 24, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 22, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Jacksonville FL, Columbus OH, and Charlotte NC are all larger in population than Denver, El Paso, Washington DC, Boston, Kansas City (MO and KS combined), Atlanta, Miami, and St. Louis.

There are 24 combinations here. While a few might not be surprising, most of them are.
Metro area, however are different.

Jacksonville and Charlotte have highly inflated populations due to overzealous annexing. DC and Boston would be MUCH larger cities if they could annex what is around them. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: PColumbus73 on July 27, 2017, 07:16:40 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 25, 2017, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 24, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 22, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Jacksonville FL, Columbus OH, and Charlotte NC are all larger in population than Denver, El Paso, Washington DC, Boston, Kansas City (MO and KS combined), Atlanta, Miami, and St. Louis.

There are 24 combinations here. While a few might not be surprising, most of them are.
Metro area, however are different.

Jacksonville and Charlotte have highly inflated populations due to overzealous annexing. DC and Boston would be MUCH larger cities if they could annex what is around them. 

Pretty much every major U.S. city that rose to prominence post-WWII is going to have more land area than the older cities like New York and Boston.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on July 28, 2017, 12:25:54 PM
Salt Lake City area is a good example of a weird metro area. The city proper has a population of about 190,000 but the metro has more than 1 million, and the urban area in total is about 2.5 million.

Albuquerque, on the other hand, has a population of around 550,000 but a metro of only 850,000, so pretty similar to Jacksonville/Charlotte.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on July 28, 2017, 04:12:06 PM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on July 27, 2017, 07:16:40 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 25, 2017, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 24, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 22, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Jacksonville FL, Columbus OH, and Charlotte NC are all larger in population than Denver, El Paso, Washington DC, Boston, Kansas City (MO and KS combined), Atlanta, Miami, and St. Louis.

There are 24 combinations here. While a few might not be surprising, most of them are.
Metro area, however are different.

Jacksonville and Charlotte have highly inflated populations due to overzealous annexing. DC and Boston would be MUCH larger cities if they could annex what is around them. 

Pretty much every major U.S. city that rose to prominence post-WWII is going to have more land area than the older cities like New York and Boston.

Correct. While a decent amount of Columbus's population growth is due to people moving in, it has annexed quite a bit of the surrounding area, such that a few townships in Franklin County have become nearly nothing and the city has expanded into two other counties.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on July 28, 2017, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on July 28, 2017, 12:25:54 PM
Salt Lake City area is a good example of a weird metro area. The city proper has a population of about 190,000 but the metro has more than 1 million, and the urban area in total is about 2.5 million.
London, the city, has a population about 0.1% of the Region (8000 vs 8 million in ball parks) and would fit into the Met Area (over 13m people) like feet into a mile.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on July 29, 2017, 10:53:42 AM
Quote from: english si on July 28, 2017, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on July 28, 2017, 12:25:54 PM
Salt Lake City area is a good example of a weird metro area. The city proper has a population of about 190,000 but the metro has more than 1 million, and the urban area in total is about 2.5 million.
London, the city, has a population about 0.1% of the Region (8000 vs 8 million in ball parks) and would fit into the Met Area (over 13m people) like feet into a mile.
Just to put things in perspective - I am not sure if UK has the same issue:
Many US cities  have significant problems with old city being  separate legal entity from the metropolitan area. Often this results in some sort of segregation - either old city is left to those who cannot afford suburb living, or vice versa. End result is city, where many businesses are located, ends up with population having different income level than the area, and governments of city and suburbs  which protects interests of a small groups. Lots of people commute to the city, often pay some tax - but have no say in policies. And that creates problems which could be avoided if entire area had same government and interests/money flow could be more balanced. ...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on July 29, 2017, 02:09:49 PM
The City of London has had a sui generis governmental status for about 950 years and is defined by the Roman Wall and has only seen minor alterations to the boundary (eg to include the southern half of bridges when they have been built).

The Tower of London was built on the outside of the City to subjugate the Londoners, rather than protect them (though it served both functions). Tower Hamlets that cropped up to serve the castle was poorer (as the East End is still). However Westminster on the other side wasn't poorer, despite the less salubrious area of Cheapside within the City heading west from the centre not east. In Georgian times areas like Soho and the West End were built - denser than the City proper (and in the mid-20th century, became as important, if not more, than the City, as a business area) and much richer. The factors were not the presence of the Wall, or the local Government structure, but things like where the industry and noise were and who build the buildings and when and so on.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on July 29, 2017, 04:08:08 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 25, 2017, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 24, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 22, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Jacksonville FL, Columbus OH, and Charlotte NC are all larger in population than Denver, El Paso, Washington DC, Boston, Kansas City (MO and KS combined), Atlanta, Miami, and St. Louis.

There are 24 combinations here. While a few might not be surprising, most of them are.
Metro area, however are different.

Jacksonville and Charlotte have highly inflated populations due to overzealous annexing. DC and Boston would be MUCH larger cities if they could annex what is around them.
Jacksonville and Duval County are consolidated not really annexation.

There are 4 cities in Duval County that are not part of Jacksonville, but the city of Jacksonville is the county government. That why one of the former mayors of Jacksonville actually lived in Neptune Beach.

There are over 900k people in Jacksonville (913k in the city of Jacksonville and 926k in Duval County) but the metro area is 1.6 million. Compared to Miami 400k in the city but over 5 million in Metro.

Looking at city limits Jacksonville is the 3rd largest city in population on east coast.. Only NYC and Philadelphia are larger

LGMS428
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on July 30, 2017, 12:02:40 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on July 29, 2017, 04:08:08 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 25, 2017, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 24, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 22, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Jacksonville FL, Columbus OH, and Charlotte NC are all larger in population than Denver, El Paso, Washington DC, Boston, Kansas City (MO and KS combined), Atlanta, Miami, and St. Louis.

There are 24 combinations here. While a few might not be surprising, most of them are.
Metro area, however are different.

Jacksonville and Charlotte have highly inflated populations due to overzealous annexing. DC and Boston would be MUCH larger cities if they could annex what is around them.
Jacksonville and Duval County are consolidated not really annexation.

There are 4 cities in Duval County that are not part of Jacksonville, but the city of Jacksonville is the county government. That why one of the former mayors of Jacksonville actually lived in Neptune Beach.

There are over 900k people in Jacksonville (913k in the city of Jacksonville and 926k in Duval County) but the metro area is 1.6 million. Compared to Miami 400k in the city but over 5 million in Metro.

Looking at city limits Jacksonville is the 3rd largest city on east coast.. Only NYC and Philadelphia are larger

LGMS428

But just being a consolidated city-county doesn't always inflate city population relative to metro. Denver (a city- county with no other cities in the county, unlike Jacksonville) has a population of 600K, whereas Denver metro has 2.8 million.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on July 30, 2017, 01:43:11 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on July 30, 2017, 12:02:40 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on July 29, 2017, 04:08:08 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 25, 2017, 12:08:41 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 24, 2017, 07:29:26 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 22, 2017, 09:23:12 AM
Jacksonville FL, Columbus OH, and Charlotte NC are all larger in population than Denver, El Paso, Washington DC, Boston, Kansas City (MO and KS combined), Atlanta, Miami, and St. Louis.

There are 24 combinations here. While a few might not be surprising, most of them are.
Metro area, however are different.

Jacksonville and Charlotte have highly inflated populations due to overzealous annexing. DC and Boston would be MUCH larger cities if they could annex what is around them.
Jacksonville and Duval County are consolidated not really annexation.

There are 4 cities in Duval County that are not part of Jacksonville, but the city of Jacksonville is the county government. That why one of the former mayors of Jacksonville actually lived in Neptune Beach.

There are over 900k people in Jacksonville (913k in the city of Jacksonville and 926k in Duval County) but the metro area is 1.6 million. Compared to Miami 400k in the city but over 5 million in Metro.

Looking at city limits Jacksonville is the 3rd largest city on east coast.. Only NYC and Philadelphia are larger

LGMS428

But just being a consolidated city-county doesn't always inflate city population relative to metro. Denver (a city- county with no other cities in the county, unlike Jacksonville) has a population of 600K, whereas Denver metro has 2.8 million.
Consolidation in and of itself doesnt make the city a larger proprtion of metro.  Duval County is geographically large. Square milage of Jacksonville went from under 100 to more than 800. Consolidation took most of Jacksonville's existing suburbs into the city limits.

  Jacksonville pre 1968 was a city within Duval County. Essentially the city of Jacksonville and County of Duval ceased to exist..a new combined entity was formed.. The 4 other cities in Duval do not take much land at all. And they are represented on Jacksonville city council, since Jax is the county government for Baldwin, Jacksonville Beach, Neptune Beach and Atlantic Beach.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170730/8f8d48ed04dae11a482a0adc40a2099d.jpg)

As far as i understand the city of Denver which existed in multiple counties became its own county. The square milage didnt increase much, if at all

LGMS428
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on July 30, 2017, 12:08:54 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 29, 2015, 11:47:11 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 29, 2015, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
The sunset tomorrow where I live is 3:56 PM. New England really needs to join the Atlantic time zone. It's pitch black here before 5.
It's similar in Quebec city (3:59). The Atlantic time zone should be extended west IMO. It would follow the state line between NY and CT, MA, and VT border. Then it would cross the border and follow a line just east of Montreal.

Typically time zones are arranged to not split metro areas. This is why a chunk of eastern Oregon is in Mountain Time, to match Boise. For similar reasons, you wouldn't want southwestern CT in a different time zone from NYC. Realistically, it'd be difficult to move the border between Atlantic and Eastern into the US without making a mess of things. New England is too densely populated. Although you maybe could work something out where Connecticut and Western Mass stay in Eastern while the rest of New England goes Atlantic.
US already has two territories on Atlantic time.
What is silly is the continuation of Daylight time into November. There's no daylight to save!
I suspect that Maine and Vermont could join Atlantic and no one would really care.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on July 30, 2017, 03:17:26 PM
Quote from: michravera on July 30, 2017, 12:08:54 PM
I suspect that Maine and Vermont could join Atlantic and no one would really care.

Some people would care. Specifically, those in New Hampshire, which hadn't switched, and would be bordered on both sides by those who had.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 30, 2017, 11:05:02 PM
Quote from: michravera on July 30, 2017, 12:08:54 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on November 29, 2015, 11:47:11 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on November 29, 2015, 11:23:50 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on November 29, 2015, 10:50:15 PM
The sunset tomorrow where I live is 3:56 PM. New England really needs to join the Atlantic time zone. It's pitch black here before 5.
It's similar in Quebec city (3:59). The Atlantic time zone should be extended west IMO. It would follow the state line between NY and CT, MA, and VT border. Then it would cross the border and follow a line just east of Montreal.

Typically time zones are arranged to not split metro areas. This is why a chunk of eastern Oregon is in Mountain Time, to match Boise. For similar reasons, you wouldn't want southwestern CT in a different time zone from NYC. Realistically, it'd be difficult to move the border between Atlantic and Eastern into the US without making a mess of things. New England is too densely populated. Although you maybe could work something out where Connecticut and Western Mass stay in Eastern while the rest of New England goes Atlantic.
US already has two territories on Atlantic time.
What is silly is the continuation of Daylight time into November. There's no daylight to save!
I suspect that Maine and Vermont could join Atlantic and no one would really care.

There's no way that Boston and New York should be in different time zones.  The best time zone line should start west of Ottawa, passing just west of Kingston, Ontario, crossing Lake Ontario and following county lines between Syracuse and Rochester.  After passing between Binghamton and Corning, it crosses into PA, passing west of Williamsport and between the Harrisburg and Altoona areas.  In Maryland, it would pass west of Hagerstown, and cut just west of the West Virginia panhandle before turning east and running southeast through Virginia to meet the VA/NC border just west of Richmond, then follow the border to the Atlantic coast.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tckma on July 31, 2017, 01:02:23 PM
Quote from: michravera on July 30, 2017, 12:08:54 PM

I suspect that Maine and Vermont could join Atlantic and no one would really care.

Why not New Hampshire as well, then?

I imagine Vermont and New Hampshire might be problematic, at least for southern towns.  A lot of people in Southern NH commute to jobs in the Boston area (example: when I lived in Nashua, NH, I commuted to Tewksbury, MA).  I presume a lot of people who live in southwestern Vermont might commute to jobs in the Albany, NY area.  This sort of thing is why northwestern and southwestern counties in Indiana are on Central time while the rest of that state is on Eastern time.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on July 31, 2017, 01:15:21 PM
The economy and culture of northern New England is based around Boston. There's no way that they switch without Boston.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 31, 2017, 03:17:18 PM
Jacksonville, FL has a larger land area than Los Angeles and New York combined.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on July 31, 2017, 04:41:29 PM
Sitka, Alaska is the largest city in the US by land area
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on July 31, 2017, 05:46:35 PM
Quote from: tckma on July 31, 2017, 01:02:23 PM
Quote from: michravera on July 30, 2017, 12:08:54 PM

I suspect that Maine and Vermont could join Atlantic and no one would really care.

Why not New Hampshire as well, then?

I imagine Vermont and New Hampshire might be problematic, at least for southern towns.  A lot of people in Southern NH commute to jobs in the Boston area (example: when I lived in Nashua, NH, I commuted to Tewksbury, MA).  I presume a lot of people who live in southwestern Vermont might commute to jobs in the Albany, NY area.  This sort of thing is why northwestern and southwestern counties in Indiana are on Central time while the rest of that state is on Eastern time.

It's only in the Eastern time zone where people think that working in another time zone is somehow difficult. Some people have to deal with not only working in a different time zone, but one that isn't always the same difference.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Sctvhound on August 01, 2017, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: tckma on July 31, 2017, 01:02:23 PM
Quote from: michravera on July 30, 2017, 12:08:54 PM

I suspect that Maine and Vermont could join Atlantic and no one would really care.

Why not New Hampshire as well, then?

I imagine Vermont and New Hampshire might be problematic, at least for southern towns.  A lot of people in Southern NH commute to jobs in the Boston area (example: when I lived in Nashua, NH, I commuted to Tewksbury, MA).  I presume a lot of people who live in southwestern Vermont might commute to jobs in the Albany, NY area.  This sort of thing is why northwestern and southwestern counties in Indiana are on Central time while the rest of that state is on Eastern time.

Also, sporting events being on one hour later than Boston. I don't think people would like having Sunday Night Football start at 9:30, west coast Red Sox games starting at 11, and primetime TV not ending until midnight.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on August 02, 2017, 01:24:54 PM
Quote from: Sctvhound on August 01, 2017, 05:12:47 PM
Quote from: tckma on July 31, 2017, 01:02:23 PM
Quote from: michravera on July 30, 2017, 12:08:54 PM

I suspect that Maine and Vermont could join Atlantic and no one would really care.

Why not New Hampshire as well, then?

I imagine Vermont and New Hampshire might be problematic, at least for southern towns.  A lot of people in Southern NH commute to jobs in the Boston area (example: when I lived in Nashua, NH, I commuted to Tewksbury, MA).  I presume a lot of people who live in southwestern Vermont might commute to jobs in the Albany, NY area.  This sort of thing is why northwestern and southwestern counties in Indiana are on Central time while the rest of that state is on Eastern time.

Also, sporting events being on one hour later than Boston. I don't think people would like having Sunday Night Football start at 9:30, west coast Red Sox games starting at 11, and primetime TV not ending until midnight.

Prime Time TV is not an issue. First, many people don't watch prime time at the time that it runs anyway. Second, I believe that Canada runs a separate feed for recorded CBC programs for the Atlantic and Maritime time zones that runs an hour or two ahead of the Eastern time zone feed. There is no reason that US networks couldn't do the same.

As for live sporting events, hey, it's live. Deal with it! People in Hawaii have been dealing with screwy times for live events ever since the invention of the radio. Normal Sunday NFL games start at 7AM in September and October. Some East Coast baseball games start at 6AM (or rarely 4AM for a morning game of the 4th of July).

I remember the first time that I was vacationing in Sint Maarten, I woke up on a Sunday morning to the CBS satellite feed of "Face the Nation" expecting "The NFL Today" to follow immediately. Not for another 3 or 4 hours! Time to grab food, hit the beach, and THEN maybe watch some football, and my teams (49ers and Raiders) didn't even play until 5PM. Maybe, I could watch those games on the Wide Screen inside the casino (which usually didn't open until 4PM or so)!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on August 02, 2017, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 31, 2017, 01:15:21 PM
The economy and culture of northern New England is based around Boston. There's no way that they switch without Boston.
All of New England could be Atlantic.

Edit: 4 years later, fixed spelling.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on August 02, 2017, 04:01:13 PM
The USA will never make a substantial change to the main four time zones.  Dead issue.  Leaving out Communist China, which has one goofy time zone for the whole country which makes its west be off by many hours, the two most off places seem to be Argentina and Spain, both of whch need to go one-time zone west.  Spain makes no sense, as Portugal is in the right time zone, and the mountainous border with France would be a natural place with little interaction for the zone line to be.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on August 02, 2017, 07:01:55 PM
Quote from: michravera on August 02, 2017, 01:24:54 PM
Prime Time TV is not an issue. First, many people don't watch prime time at the time that it runs anyway. Second, I believe that Canada runs a separate feed for recorded CBC programs for the Atlantic and Maritime time zones that runs an hour or two ahead of the Eastern time zone feed.....

Right......The Maritimes are on Atlantic Time......and the island of Newfoundland has one of those 'half-hour' time zones.

When it's 1pm in New York, Boston, Toronto or Montreal.....it's 2pm in the Maritimes and 2:30pm in Newfoundland,

When the Jay's first pitch is at 1:07pm......that game start is 2:07 here and 2:37pm in St. John's. So except for live broadcasts......most networks here show programming at the same time in each time zone across the country. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 02, 2017, 09:14:44 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 02, 2017, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 31, 2017, 01:15:21 PM
The economy and culture of northern New England is based around Boston. There's no way that they switch without Boston.
All of New Engkand could be atlantic.

At first glance, yes. But the problem of media markets makes Western New England incredibly difficult.

- You can't really switch any part of Vermont out of the eastern time zone because every media market in the state either extends into New York (Burlington/Plattsburgh) or is primarily anchored in New York (Albany). Windham County is the exception since they're in the Boston media market (somehow).

- You also can't switch the Upper Valley in New Hampshire because they're apart of the Burlington, VT market, which as mentioned above extends in Plattsburgh, NY. You could probably solve this by having cable providers in the area carry Portland, ME or Boston stations.

- The Berkshires are apart of the Albany, NY market and are stuck in the Eastern Time Zone.

- Southwest Connecticut is in the New York, NY media market and WAY too reliant economically on the City to switch.

Now.....

You may say that we could switch the following areas to the Atlantic Time Zone:

- New Hampshire (solving the Upper Valley problem by slotting them into the Boston media market)
- Maine
- Massachusetts (minus Berkshire County)
- Rhode Island
- Connecticut (minus Fairfield County)

Problems:

- The Berkshires already feel neglected by legislators in Boston, I feel as though being in a different time zone would make the problem worse.

- You also have the issue of the NH/VT border areas, which are pretty economically connected with a couple of school districts even taking in students across state lines. For example, Hanover High School in Hanover, NH enrolls students from Hanover, NH and Norwich, VT so putting them into different school districts would create a few logistical problems. There's simply no way to move NH to Atlantic and NOT Vermont.

Possible solutions:

- You could extend the Springfield DMA to include the Berkshires so you can get the entirety of Massachusetts in the Atlantic Time Zone. This is actually a pretty easy fix.

- You could simply let Clinton, Essex and Franklin Counties in New York go to the Atlantic Time Zone as way to maintain continuity in the Burlington-Plattsburgh market. The problem with this is two fold, (1) A person leaving Albany or NYC would change time zones by going due north, which seems a bit absurd (though not unheard of, see: Indiana) (2) Relegating 3 rural counties to a different time zone would probably increase feelings of isolation with the rest of the State of New York.

- There's honestly no way to feasibly move Fairfield County, CT to the Atlantic Time Zone.

I've given way too much thought about this.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on August 02, 2017, 11:03:09 PM
I don't know that media market boundaries are that important when it comes to time zones.

A significant portion of the Louisville media market is in Central Time, while Louisville is in Eastern Time. I had an aunt and uncle who moved from Bullitt County, south of Louisville, to Grayson County, which is on the eastern edge of Central Time. They frequently referred to Eastern Time as "Louisville Time."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: amroad17 on August 02, 2017, 11:53:28 PM
HB, remember when Indiana had their Eastern Time Zone stay on one time all year (minus the four counties near Cincinnati)?  My mother-in-law had friends who lived in New Albany.  Whenever we visited them, we had to be aware that even though it was, say, 1pm in Louisville, it was 12pm at their house just across the river.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on August 03, 2017, 12:29:59 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2017, 11:53:28 PM
HB, remember when Indiana had their Eastern Time Zone stay on one time all year (minus the four counties near Cincinnati)?  My mother-in-law had friends who lived in New Albany.  Whenever we visited them, we had to be aware that even though it was, say, 1pm in Louisville, it was 12pm at their house just across the river.
My ex wifes dad was from Indiana.. I remember going there in summer and they didnt have DST..  Her dad and uncle said people near Louisville especially those who worked across the river de facto observed DST to keep the same as work or other connections

LGMS428
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on August 03, 2017, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 02, 2017, 09:14:44 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 02, 2017, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 31, 2017, 01:15:21 PM
The economy and culture of northern New England is based around Boston. There's no way that they switch without Boston.
All of New Engkand could be atlantic.

At first glance, yes. But the problem of media markets makes Western New England incredibly difficult.

- You can't really switch any part of Vermont out of the eastern time zone because every media market in the state either extends into New York (Burlington/Plattsburgh) or is primarily anchored in New York (Albany). Windham County is the exception since they're in the Boston media market (somehow).

- You also can't switch the Upper Valley in New Hampshire because they're apart of the Burlington, VT market, which as mentioned above extends in Plattsburgh, NY. You could probably solve this by having cable providers in the area carry Portland, ME or Boston stations.

- The Berkshires are apart of the Albany, NY market and are stuck in the Eastern Time Zone.

- Southwest Connecticut is in the New York, NY media market and WAY too reliant economically on the City to switch.

Now.....

You may say that we could switch the following areas to the Atlantic Time Zone:

- New Hampshire (solving the Upper Valley problem by slotting them into the Boston media market)
- Maine
- Massachusetts (minus Berkshire County)
- Rhode Island
- Connecticut (minus Fairfield County)

Problems:

- The Berkshires already feel neglected by legislators in Boston, I feel as though being in a different time zone would make the problem worse.

- You also have the issue of the NH/VT border areas, which are pretty economically connected with a couple of school districts even taking in students across state lines. For example, Hanover High School in Hanover, NH enrolls students from Hanover, NH and Norwich, VT so putting them into different school districts would create a few logistical problems. There's simply no way to move NH to Atlantic and NOT Vermont.

Possible solutions:

- You could extend the Springfield DMA to include the Berkshires so you can get the entirety of Massachusetts in the Atlantic Time Zone. This is actually a pretty easy fix.

- You could simply let Clinton, Essex and Franklin Counties in New York go to the Atlantic Time Zone as way to maintain continuity in the Burlington-Plattsburgh market. The problem with this is two fold, (1) A person leaving Albany or NYC would change time zones by going due north, which seems a bit absurd (though not unheard of, see: Indiana) (2) Relegating 3 rural counties to a different time zone would probably increase feelings of isolation with the rest of the State of New York.

- There's honestly no way to feasibly move Fairfield County, CT to the Atlantic Time Zone.

I've given way too much thought about this.
NYC and long island could be atlantic.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on August 03, 2017, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 03, 2017, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 02, 2017, 09:14:44 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 02, 2017, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 31, 2017, 01:15:21 PM
The economy and culture of northern New England is based around Boston. There's no way that they switch without Boston.
All of New Engkand could be atlantic.

At first glance, yes. But the problem of media markets makes Western New England incredibly difficult.

- You can't really switch any part of Vermont out of the eastern time zone because every media market in the state either extends into New York (Burlington/Plattsburgh) or is primarily anchored in New York (Albany). Windham County is the exception since they're in the Boston media market (somehow).

- You also can't switch the Upper Valley in New Hampshire because they're apart of the Burlington, VT market, which as mentioned above extends in Plattsburgh, NY. You could probably solve this by having cable providers in the area carry Portland, ME or Boston stations.

- The Berkshires are apart of the Albany, NY market and are stuck in the Eastern Time Zone.

- Southwest Connecticut is in the New York, NY media market and WAY too reliant economically on the City to switch.

Now.....

You may say that we could switch the following areas to the Atlantic Time Zone:

- New Hampshire (solving the Upper Valley problem by slotting them into the Boston media market)
- Maine
- Massachusetts (minus Berkshire County)
- Rhode Island
- Connecticut (minus Fairfield County)

Problems:

- The Berkshires already feel neglected by legislators in Boston, I feel as though being in a different time zone would make the problem worse.

- You also have the issue of the NH/VT border areas, which are pretty economically connected with a couple of school districts even taking in students across state lines. For example, Hanover High School in Hanover, NH enrolls students from Hanover, NH and Norwich, VT so putting them into different school districts would create a few logistical problems. There's simply no way to move NH to Atlantic and NOT Vermont.

Possible solutions:

- You could extend the Springfield DMA to include the Berkshires so you can get the entirety of Massachusetts in the Atlantic Time Zone. This is actually a pretty easy fix.

- You could simply let Clinton, Essex and Franklin Counties in New York go to the Atlantic Time Zone as way to maintain continuity in the Burlington-Plattsburgh market. The problem with this is two fold, (1) A person leaving Albany or NYC would change time zones by going due north, which seems a bit absurd (though not unheard of, see: Indiana) (2) Relegating 3 rural counties to a different time zone would probably increase feelings of isolation with the rest of the State of New York.

- There's honestly no way to feasibly move Fairfield County, CT to the Atlantic Time Zone.

I've given way too much thought about this.
NYC and long island could be atlantic.

No way. The economy of the Northeast is too closely tied for that. As an example, that would leave Philadelphia and NYC on different zones. DC would be too, and that might cause difficulties for the government.

The economic reasoning is why southern Idaho is in the Mountain time zone (economic ties with Utah) and why Jackpot and West Wendover observe Mountain time (economic ties with Idaho and Utah, respectively. Kenton OK observes Mountain time because they are surrounded by states that do (NM and CO).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on August 03, 2017, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on August 03, 2017, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 03, 2017, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 02, 2017, 09:14:44 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 02, 2017, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 31, 2017, 01:15:21 PM
The economy and culture of northern New England is based around Boston. There's no way that they switch without Boston.
All of New Engkand could be atlantic.

At first glance, yes. But the problem of media markets makes Western New England incredibly difficult.

- You can't really switch any part of Vermont out of the eastern time zone because every media market in the state either extends into New York (Burlington/Plattsburgh) or is primarily anchored in New York (Albany). Windham County is the exception since they're in the Boston media market (somehow).

- You also can't switch the Upper Valley in New Hampshire because they're apart of the Burlington, VT market, which as mentioned above extends in Plattsburgh, NY. You could probably solve this by having cable providers in the area carry Portland, ME or Boston stations.

- The Berkshires are apart of the Albany, NY market and are stuck in the Eastern Time Zone.

- Southwest Connecticut is in the New York, NY media market and WAY too reliant economically on the City to switch.

Now.....

You may say that we could switch the following areas to the Atlantic Time Zone:

- New Hampshire (solving the Upper Valley problem by slotting them into the Boston media market)
- Maine
- Massachusetts (minus Berkshire County)
- Rhode Island
- Connecticut (minus Fairfield County)

Problems:

- The Berkshires already feel neglected by legislators in Boston, I feel as though being in a different time zone would make the problem worse.

- You also have the issue of the NH/VT border areas, which are pretty economically connected with a couple of school districts even taking in students across state lines. For example, Hanover High School in Hanover, NH enrolls students from Hanover, NH and Norwich, VT so putting them into different school districts would create a few logistical problems. There's simply no way to move NH to Atlantic and NOT Vermont.

Possible solutions:

- You could extend the Springfield DMA to include the Berkshires so you can get the entirety of Massachusetts in the Atlantic Time Zone. This is actually a pretty easy fix.

- You could simply let Clinton, Essex and Franklin Counties in New York go to the Atlantic Time Zone as way to maintain continuity in the Burlington-Plattsburgh market. The problem with this is two fold, (1) A person leaving Albany or NYC would change time zones by going due north, which seems a bit absurd (though not unheard of, see: Indiana) (2) Relegating 3 rural counties to a different time zone would probably increase feelings of isolation with the rest of the State of New York.

- There's honestly no way to feasibly move Fairfield County, CT to the Atlantic Time Zone.

I've given way too much thought about this.
NYC and long island could be atlantic.

No way. The economy of the Northeast is too closely tied for that. As an example, that would leave Philadelphia and NYC on different zones. DC would be too, and that might cause difficulties for the government.

The economic reasoning is why southern Idaho is in the Mountain time zone (economic ties with Utah) and why Jackpot and West Wendover observe Mountain time (economic ties with Idaho and Utah, respectively. Kenton OK observes Mountain time because they are surrounded by states that do (NM and CO).
Just maine can be atlantic.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on August 03, 2017, 12:31:19 PM
I don't think time difference is actually that big of a problem to begin with - but that is exactly why things wouldn't work.
There were stories about California actually having different hours - people tend to start work earlier (and leave earlier), and major reason is closing gap between CA and East coast for those who work with East coast - and for those who work with those who work with East coast.
I suspect if Boston actually switch to Atlantic, normal business hours would be 10-6 instead of 9-5 - just to match different time zone. So actual positive effect of changing time zone would be much smaller than expected - if any. Confusion due to change would be there full scale, though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 03, 2017, 12:50:20 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on August 03, 2017, 10:56:43 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 03, 2017, 08:55:44 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 02, 2017, 09:14:44 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 02, 2017, 03:15:24 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 31, 2017, 01:15:21 PM
The economy and culture of northern New England is based around Boston. There's no way that they switch without Boston.
All of New Engkand could be atlantic.

At first glance, yes. But the problem of media markets makes Western New England incredibly difficult.

- You can't really switch any part of Vermont out of the eastern time zone because every media market in the state either extends into New York (Burlington/Plattsburgh) or is primarily anchored in New York (Albany). Windham County is the exception since they're in the Boston media market (somehow).

- You also can't switch the Upper Valley in New Hampshire because they're apart of the Burlington, VT market, which as mentioned above extends in Plattsburgh, NY. You could probably solve this by having cable providers in the area carry Portland, ME or Boston stations.

- The Berkshires are apart of the Albany, NY market and are stuck in the Eastern Time Zone.

- Southwest Connecticut is in the New York, NY media market and WAY too reliant economically on the City to switch.

Now.....

You may say that we could switch the following areas to the Atlantic Time Zone:

- New Hampshire (solving the Upper Valley problem by slotting them into the Boston media market)
- Maine
- Massachusetts (minus Berkshire County)
- Rhode Island
- Connecticut (minus Fairfield County)

Problems:

- The Berkshires already feel neglected by legislators in Boston, I feel as though being in a different time zone would make the problem worse.

- You also have the issue of the NH/VT border areas, which are pretty economically connected with a couple of school districts even taking in students across state lines. For example, Hanover High School in Hanover, NH enrolls students from Hanover, NH and Norwich, VT so putting them into different school districts would create a few logistical problems. There's simply no way to move NH to Atlantic and NOT Vermont.

Possible solutions:

- You could extend the Springfield DMA to include the Berkshires so you can get the entirety of Massachusetts in the Atlantic Time Zone. This is actually a pretty easy fix.

- You could simply let Clinton, Essex and Franklin Counties in New York go to the Atlantic Time Zone as way to maintain continuity in the Burlington-Plattsburgh market. The problem with this is two fold, (1) A person leaving Albany or NYC would change time zones by going due north, which seems a bit absurd (though not unheard of, see: Indiana) (2) Relegating 3 rural counties to a different time zone would probably increase feelings of isolation with the rest of the State of New York.

- There's honestly no way to feasibly move Fairfield County, CT to the Atlantic Time Zone.

I've given way too much thought about this.
NYC and long island could be atlantic.

No way. The economy of the Northeast is too closely tied for that. As an example, that would leave Philadelphia and NYC on different zones. DC would be too, and that might cause difficulties for the government.

The economic reasoning is why southern Idaho is in the Mountain time zone (economic ties with Utah) and why Jackpot and West Wendover observe Mountain time (economic ties with Idaho and Utah, respectively. Kenton OK observes Mountain time because they are surrounded by states that do (NM and CO).

The interconnectedness of the Northeast economy is also why switching would be difficult. Boston wouldn't want to be in a different time zone than NYC, Philly, and DC and northern New England couldn't be in a different time zone than Boston.

The Atlantic time zone sounds nice but it just isn't feasible.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on August 03, 2017, 01:01:13 PM
I read that one of the reasons Delta chose Atlanta as their HQ over Birmingham was because it was in eastern time zone, with NYC,Philadelphia,Boston, Washington etc.

Sort of a tangent. I saw a map where Georgia and all of Florida were central time

LGMS428
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on August 03, 2017, 03:45:57 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on August 02, 2017, 11:53:28 PM
HB, remember when Indiana had their Eastern Time Zone stay on one time all year (minus the four counties near Cincinnati)?  My mother-in-law had friends who lived in New Albany.  Whenever we visited them, we had to be aware that even though it was, say, 1pm in Louisville, it was 12pm at their house just across the river.

I think there was a year when much of Kentucky was shifted, as well. It may have been during one of the 1970's energy crises (we had two, one under Nixon and then under Carter).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on August 03, 2017, 04:07:18 PM
I think you are thinking of the "Emergency Daylight Time Act" which extended DST to January to October in 1974 and February to October in 1975.  The idea was to save energy, but it did not work and caused a recordable rise in traffic accidents, including, sadly, school children involved accidents.  They went back to the normal schedule in 1976.  It was a dumb idea.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: PColumbus73 on August 03, 2017, 06:29:05 PM
The United States is about 500 miles from France.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Takumi on August 03, 2017, 06:41:01 PM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on August 03, 2017, 06:29:05 PM
The United States is about 500 miles from France.
Bah, technicalities...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on August 03, 2017, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on August 03, 2017, 06:29:05 PM
The United States is about 500 miles from France.
A French territory in the Caribbean is why this is the case, right?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SignGeek101 on August 03, 2017, 07:57:16 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 03, 2017, 07:53:20 PM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on August 03, 2017, 06:29:05 PM
The United States is about 500 miles from France.
A French territory in the Caribbean is why this is the case, right?

I think he's referring to St Pierre et Miquelon, an island just off the coast of Newfoundland. Apparently, it's the only place where you can "drive to Europe".

https://goo.gl/maps/DzX91KiNWTt

More info: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=18307.msg2157021#msg2157021
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on August 04, 2017, 06:30:12 AM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on August 03, 2017, 07:57:16 PM


I think he's referring to St Pierre et Miquelon, an island just off the coast of Newfoundland. Apparently, it's the only place where you can "drive to Europe".


Being a part of France doesn't make it a part of Europe.  Guam is not in North America, just because it is an American territory.  Hong Kong was never part of Europe, just because it was British.

Granted, the French Overseas bits are an integral part of France.  It's as if Puerto Rico, Guam, etc were already states.  But they're still not in Europe.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on August 04, 2017, 06:32:58 AM
Quote from: GaryV on August 04, 2017, 06:30:12 AM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on August 03, 2017, 07:57:16 PM


I think he's referring to St Pierre et Miquelon, an island just off the coast of Newfoundland. Apparently, it's the only place where you can "drive to Europe".


Being a part of France doesn't make it a part of Europe.  Guam is not in North America, just because it is an American territory.  Hong Kong was never part of Europe, just because it was British.

Granted, the French Overseas bits are an integral part of France.  It's as if Puerto Rico, Guam, etc were already states.  But they're still not in Europe.

St. Pierre et Miquelon is not in Europe, but they still do use the euro.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on August 04, 2017, 08:24:30 AM
I immediately thought of St. Pierre and Miquelon when PColumbus said
Quote from: PColumbus73 on August 03, 2017, 06:29:05 PM
The United States is about 500 miles from France.

Even better is that Brazil borders France :sombrero:. I used to think French Guiana was independent until I spotted it on a inset in a map of France.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on August 04, 2017, 08:59:19 AM
Illinois is on both sides of the Mississippi river in not one, but several places.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on August 04, 2017, 09:16:52 AM
Depends on what you mean by "Europe".  If you mean the geographical continent, no.  But then again neither would Hawaii, one of the United States of America, be in America.  However if you mean the European Union, then what they call "Overseas France" is in Europe.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on August 04, 2017, 01:02:51 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on August 04, 2017, 11:29:01 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 04, 2017, 08:59:19 AM
Illinois is on both sides of the Mississippi river in not one, but several places.

That's only because the river moved after they surveyed the border. It's not like France used to be connected to their overseas territories, and then the ocean moved and separated them.
It's still a geographic oddity that defies conventional wisdom, as per the thread title.  I didn't read it as being in reply to the France overseas territories discussion.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 04, 2017, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 04, 2017, 08:59:19 AM
Illinois is on both sides of the Mississippi river in not one, but several places.

Delaware is on both sides of the Delaware River in two places as well!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on August 04, 2017, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 04, 2017, 01:30:02 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 04, 2017, 08:59:19 AM
Illinois is on both sides of the Mississippi river in not one, but several places.

Delaware is on both sides of the Delaware River in two places as well!

And heck, Spain is on two sides of the Mediterranean.

(And those of you who are interested in this sort of thing should follow the Geography Now YouTube channel, if you don't already.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 04, 2017, 02:31:51 PM
Is there a state where the changing course of rivers has resulted in funky state boundaries? I understand that states don't like losing land area so no one ever set the boundary as "the other side of the river" but there are some odd ones.

Some portions of New Hampshire are on the other side of the Connecticut River, ditto for the Salmon Falls River on the Maine side.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on August 04, 2017, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: empirestate on August 04, 2017, 02:14:22 PM

And heck, Spain is on two sides of the Mediterranean.

(And those of you who are interested in this sort of thing should follow the Geography Now YouTube channel, if you don't already.)

Geography Now is pretty good, but the guy makes some mistakes.  He should have a professor or somethng review his material before uplinking it. 

And with small Spanish enclaves in Africa, the above discussed St. Pierre & Miquelon and the still not independent Caribbean islands, French Guiana, Cyprus (culturally European but geographically a island off Asia Minor, and thus technically Asia), and the (suspended) territorial claims to Antarctica, the only continent that contains no part of the European Union is Australia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheStranger on August 04, 2017, 02:57:41 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 04, 2017, 02:31:51 PM
Is there a state where the changing course of rivers has resulted in funky state boundaries? I understand that states don't like losing land area so no one ever set the boundary as "the other side of the river" but there are some odd ones.

Carter Lake, Iowa (surrounded by the Missouri River now to its east and Omaha, Nebraska on the left)
a portion of the Illinois/Kentucky border near Shawneetown, IL
portions of Missouri/Kentucky border where land within Kentucky's borders is connected only to Missouri's territory (near Deventer, MO)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on August 04, 2017, 02:59:11 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 04, 2017, 02:31:51 PM
Is there a state where the changing course of rivers has resulted in funky state boundaries?

The changes in course to the Mississippi and the Ohio have parts of most of those states on the "wrong" side of the river.  Most are just unoccupied scrub land or farm land, but I think the most significant one is a small part of Kentucky that is on Indiana's side of the Ohio, in what otherwise would be Evansville.  Ellis Park race course is there, horse racing being legal in KY long before IN.   There are some people that live there as well. 

The Rio Grande changes course too, and there are always parts of the USA and Mexico on the "wrong" side of the river.  Every 10 years or so the two countries have a treaty to swap, but they are always behind the times. 

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 04, 2017, 03:00:18 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 04, 2017, 02:31:51 PM
Is there a state where the changing course of rivers has resulted in funky state boundaries?

Um...the 2 that were just mentioned before your question.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 04, 2017, 04:37:24 PM
I mean, "hasn't." Sorry. This is what I get for typing quickly on my phone.

My point was, I'm trying to find a pair of states where a shifting river hasn't resulted in a state having land on a side of river where it shouldn't.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on August 04, 2017, 05:51:56 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 04, 2017, 04:37:24 PM
I mean, "hasn't." Sorry. This is what I get for typing quickly on my phone.

My point was, I'm trying to find a pair of states where a shifting river hasn't resulted in a state having land on a side of river where it shouldn't.

Are you trying to find rivers that haven't shifted, or states where the river has changed but the borders changed with it? If it's the first one, then California/Arizona on the CO river probably fits.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on August 04, 2017, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: empirestate on August 04, 2017, 02:14:22 PM
And heck, Spain is on two sides of the Mediterranean.

(And those of you who are interested in this sort of thing should follow the Geography Now YouTube channel, if you don't already.)

And not only Ceuta and Melilla, but also several islands along the coast of Morocco (namely Perejil island, Alhucemas islands, Velez de la Gomera rock and Chafarinas islands). Of course all of them disputed with Morocco.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on August 04, 2017, 07:08:05 PM
There's a couple little pieces of Delaware that are on the New Jersey side of the Delaware River
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on August 04, 2017, 09:00:18 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on August 04, 2017, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: empirestate on August 04, 2017, 02:14:22 PM
And heck, Spain is on two sides of the Mediterranean.

(And those of you who are interested in this sort of thing should follow the Geography Now YouTube channel, if you don't already.)

And not only Ceuta and Melilla, but also several islands along the coast of Morocco (namely Perejil island, Alhucemas islands, Velez de la Gomera rock and Chafarinas islands). Of course all of them disputed with Morocco.
Why does Morraco even bother about this anymore?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on August 05, 2017, 08:05:09 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 04, 2017, 09:00:18 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on August 04, 2017, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: empirestate on August 04, 2017, 02:14:22 PM
And heck, Spain is on two sides of the Mediterranean.

(And those of you who are interested in this sort of thing should follow the Geography Now YouTube channel, if you don't already.)

And not only Ceuta and Melilla, but also several islands along the coast of Morocco (namely Perejil island, Alhucemas islands, Velez de la Gomera rock and Chafarinas islands). Of course all of them disputed with Morocco.
Why does Morraco even bother about this anymore?
Because even small uninhabitable island can strongly change maps of fishing and navigation rights.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 05, 2017, 09:28:22 AM
Quote from: kalvado on August 05, 2017, 08:05:09 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 04, 2017, 09:00:18 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on August 04, 2017, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: empirestate on August 04, 2017, 02:14:22 PM
And heck, Spain is on two sides of the Mediterranean.

(And those of you who are interested in this sort of thing should follow the Geography Now YouTube channel, if you don't already.)

And not only Ceuta and Melilla, but also several islands along the coast of Morocco (namely Perejil island, Alhucemas islands, Velez de la Gomera rock and Chafarinas islands). Of course all of them disputed with Morocco.
Why does Morraco even bother about this anymore?
Because even small uninhabitable island can strongly change maps of fishing and navigation rights.

It's the same reason that the US and Soviet Union sat down to try to figure out their border in the Bering Strait. Countries don't like to give up rights to anything, regardless of how "useless" it may seem.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on August 05, 2017, 09:56:32 AM
Even Canada and Denmark have a dispute over an Island:

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/hans-island-boundary-dispute-canada-denmark-territorial-conflict.html

And Canada and the US:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/tiny-island-subject-of-dispute-between-canada-and-u-s-1.1206664
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on August 05, 2017, 03:30:59 PM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on August 03, 2017, 06:29:05 PMThe United States is about 500 miles from France.
It's under 100 between St Croix and Saint Martin (where part of France in the EU borders part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands not in the EU). The USVI is part of the US (though not as much as Saint Martin is part of France, but more so than Sint Maartin is part of the Netherlands).

Quote from: SP Cook on August 04, 2017, 02:41:54 PMAnd with small Spanish enclaves in Africa,
And the Canary Islands, Reunion and Mayotte
Quotethe above discussed St. Pierre & Miquelon and the still not independent Caribbean islands
The UK territories (all of which want to remain as such), and constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands (plus the special municipalities of the country of the Netherlands in the Carribbean) are not in the EU (ditto French and UK claims on Antarctic land). The French ones in the Caribbean are definitely not 'still not independent' - they wanted to become fully part of France and, unlike a lot of places that were decolonised in the 60s - eg Malta and Cyprus wanting to become part of the UK, got that wish.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: PColumbus73 on August 05, 2017, 11:22:06 PM
Quote from: english si on August 05, 2017, 03:30:59 PM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on August 03, 2017, 06:29:05 PMThe United States is about 500 miles from France.
It's under 100 between St Croix and Saint Martin (where part of France in the EU borders part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands not in the EU). The USVI is part of the US (though not as much as Saint Martin is part of France, but more so than Sint Maartin is part of the Netherlands).

Quote from: SP Cook on August 04, 2017, 02:41:54 PMAnd with small Spanish enclaves in Africa,
And the Canary Islands, Reunion and Mayotte
Quotethe above discussed St. Pierre & Miquelon and the still not independent Caribbean islands
The UK territories (all of which want to remain as such), and constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands (plus the special municipalities of the country of the Netherlands in the Carribbean) are not in the EU (ditto French and UK claims on Antarctic land). The French ones in the Caribbean are definitely not 'still not independent' - they wanted to become fully part of France and, unlike a lot of places that were decolonised in the 60s - eg Malta and Cyprus wanting to become part of the UK, got that wish.

True, I was thinking of the contiguous United States. I would guess that more people don't realize St. Pierre & Miquelon is actually a part of France and not Canada. When it comes to the Caribbean islands, we can argue that the United States is only a few hundred miles the UK, France and the Netherlands
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on August 06, 2017, 11:16:11 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 21, 2017, 11:35:08 PM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on July 21, 2017, 06:26:58 AM

As far as being fans of a particular team, it's also not hard to understand why the majority of people in Milwaukee are Packers fans and not Bears fans. #1, The Bears are from that state to the south that contains all those FIBs. #2, Milwaukee has somewhat of an inferiority complex towards Chicago. #3 Milwaukee/Wisconsin are natural rivals with Chicago/Illinois. It has more to do with this than proximity. and #4 The Bears Still Suck! As for being a Colts fan stuck in Milwaukee, I have no explanation for you  :D .

5. The Packers used to play 2 home games a year at County Stadium in Milwaukee until the 1990's.
They keyword is used to. Typically when a team used to play in a city but no longer does that city usually hates that team. St Louis hates the Rams San Diego hates the Chargers. It's also worth noting the UP of Michigan mostly supports the Packers over the Lions. I just think for whatever reason there is a bias against Chicago. A wisDOT map showing the Marquette reconstruction recognized Green Bay to the north and Madison to the west. However it would not recognize Chicago to the south instead it said to the airport.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tchafe1978 on August 06, 2017, 12:04:39 PM
It's not like the Packers really went anywhere though. They've always been based in Green Bay even when they played games in Milwaukee. It's a different situation than say the Rams packing up and leaving L.A. for St. Louis and then 20 years later going back to L.A.. The Packers are really more of a statewide team anyway, not just Green Bay. You don't have to pretend you don't like the Packers anymore, it's obvious.

LGL56VL

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on August 06, 2017, 01:20:22 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 05, 2017, 09:28:22 AM
Quote from: kalvado on August 05, 2017, 08:05:09 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 04, 2017, 09:00:18 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on August 04, 2017, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: empirestate on August 04, 2017, 02:14:22 PM
And heck, Spain is on two sides of the Mediterranean.

(And those of you who are interested in this sort of thing should follow the Geography Now YouTube channel, if you don't already.)

And not only Ceuta and Melilla, but also several islands along the coast of Morocco (namely Perejil island, Alhucemas islands, Velez de la Gomera rock and Chafarinas islands). Of course all of them disputed with Morocco.
Why does Morraco even bother about this anymore?
Because even small uninhabitable island can strongly change maps of fishing and navigation rights.

It's the same reason that the US and Soviet Union sat down to try to figure out their border in the Bering Strait. Countries don't like to give up rights to anything, regardless of how "useless" it may seem.
Ceuta and Melilla are on the African MAINLAND. It's sort of the same situation as a couple of places in Washington State and, I believe, Minnesota where the boundary was drawn such that you can't get to the rest of the US from those places except by water. The situation with Spain and Morocco, however, is that Spain has long standing military and settlement presence that it doesn't want to relinquish. The people who live there think of themselves as Spanish, so the Spanish claim makes more sense to me. I am sure that the Moroccans have a reasonable case of something like "If they want to invade, they already have a beachhead. How can that be allowed?"
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on August 07, 2017, 06:15:40 AM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on August 05, 2017, 11:22:06 PMWhen it comes to the Caribbean islands, we can argue that the United States is only a few hundred miles the UK, France and the Netherlands
British Overseas Territories are not part of the UK (also, Bermuda is closer to the US mainland).

I would say that Dutch parts of Caribbean are not part of the Netherlands (as opposed to the Kingdom of the Netherlands), however the Caribbean Netherlands (Bonaire, Saba and Sint Eustatius) have been since-2010. Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten are separate countries dependent on the crown of the Netherlands. The BES islands use the US Dollar, and aren't in the EU properly, despite being special municipalities of the Netherlands (which is a messy status that no one seems to like).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tckma on August 07, 2017, 11:49:58 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 04, 2017, 02:31:51 PM
Is there a state where the changing course of rivers has resulted in funky state boundaries? I understand that states don't like losing land area so no one ever set the boundary as "the other side of the river" but there are some odd ones.

Some portions of New Hampshire are on the other side of the Connecticut River, ditto for the Salmon Falls River on the Maine side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_bend

Also, the state border of Delaware is officially designated as the New Jersey shoreline, as is the border of Maryland officially defined as the Virginia/West Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, unlike the border being in the center of the river as in many other such situations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_v._Delaware
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_v._West_Virginia


Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on August 07, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: tckma on August 07, 2017, 11:49:58 AM

Also, the state border of Delaware is officially designated as the New Jersey shoreline, as is the border of Maryland officially defined as the Virginia/West Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, unlike the border being in the center of the river as in many other such situations.


Because Virginia and the other states ceded their claims to the "territory north-west of the River Ohio" to the national government in the Articles of Confederation era, the border between West Virginia and Kentucky on one hand, and Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois on the other is the low water mark on the north or west side.  So very little of the Ohio river is in Ohio. 

BTW, at least in WV, you can fish on either bank of the Ohio or Potomac or from a boat in it with a fishing license from either state. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on August 07, 2017, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on August 07, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: tckma on August 07, 2017, 11:49:58 AM

Also, the state border of Delaware is officially designated as the New Jersey shoreline, as is the border of Maryland officially defined as the Virginia/West Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, unlike the border being in the center of the river as in many other such situations.


Because Virginia and the other states ceded their claims to the "territory north-west of the River Ohio" to the national government in the Articles of Confederation era, the border between West Virginia and Kentucky on one hand, and Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois on the other is the low water mark on the north or west side.  So very little of the Ohio river is in Ohio. 

BTW, at least in WV, you can fish on either bank of the Ohio or Potomac or from a boat in it with a fishing license from either state.

I recall stories of people fishing from the Illinois shore of the Ohio river getting tickets from the Kentucky dept of natural resources.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 07, 2017, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 07, 2017, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on August 07, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: tckma on August 07, 2017, 11:49:58 AM

Also, the state border of Delaware is officially designated as the New Jersey shoreline, as is the border of Maryland officially defined as the Virginia/West Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, unlike the border being in the center of the river as in many other such situations.


Because Virginia and the other states ceded their claims to the "territory north-west of the River Ohio" to the national government in the Articles of Confederation era, the border between West Virginia and Kentucky on one hand, and Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois on the other is the low water mark on the north or west side.  So very little of the Ohio river is in Ohio. 

BTW, at least in WV, you can fish on either bank of the Ohio or Potomac or from a boat in it with a fishing license from either state.

I recall stories of people fishing from the Illinois shore of the Ohio river getting tickets from the Kentucky dept of natural resources.

I've always heard that the Harrah's Casino in Metropolis was on a boat in the Ohio River so they could evade Illinois's gaming laws by technically being in Kentucky.

Always sounded like hogwash to me.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on August 07, 2017, 02:06:25 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 07, 2017, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 07, 2017, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on August 07, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: tckma on August 07, 2017, 11:49:58 AM

Also, the state border of Delaware is officially designated as the New Jersey shoreline, as is the border of Maryland officially defined as the Virginia/West Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, unlike the border being in the center of the river as in many other such situations.


Because Virginia and the other states ceded their claims to the "territory north-west of the River Ohio" to the national government in the Articles of Confederation era, the border between West Virginia and Kentucky on one hand, and Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois on the other is the low water mark on the north or west side.  So very little of the Ohio river is in Ohio. 

BTW, at least in WV, you can fish on either bank of the Ohio or Potomac or from a boat in it with a fishing license from either state.

I recall stories of people fishing from the Illinois shore of the Ohio river getting tickets from the Kentucky dept of natural resources.

I've always heard that the Harrah's Casino in Metropolis was on a boat in the Ohio River so they could evade Illinois's gaming laws by technically being in Kentucky.


Which is probably true. Same reason why there are a ton of fireworks stores and the like on state borders.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 07, 2017, 02:16:38 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 07, 2017, 12:48:54 PM
Quote from: inkyatari on August 07, 2017, 12:21:01 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on August 07, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: tckma on August 07, 2017, 11:49:58 AM

Also, the state border of Delaware is officially designated as the New Jersey shoreline, as is the border of Maryland officially defined as the Virginia/West Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, unlike the border being in the center of the river as in many other such situations.


Because Virginia and the other states ceded their claims to the "territory north-west of the River Ohio" to the national government in the Articles of Confederation era, the border between West Virginia and Kentucky on one hand, and Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois on the other is the low water mark on the north or west side.  So very little of the Ohio river is in Ohio. 

BTW, at least in WV, you can fish on either bank of the Ohio or Potomac or from a boat in it with a fishing license from either state.

I recall stories of people fishing from the Illinois shore of the Ohio river getting tickets from the Kentucky dept of natural resources.

I've always heard that the Harrah's Casino in Metropolis was on a boat in the Ohio River so they could evade Illinois's gaming laws by technically being in Kentucky.

Always sounded like hogwash to me.

Anytime someone in NJ proposes something for the Delaware River in Salem County and south, Delaware (the State) can pretty much stop any project since they 'own' all the river in that area.  Unless there's an emergency, Delaware takes care of patrolling the river.

Further North in the Philly area, the two states are a bit more amicable towards things.  Both Philly and NJ State Police patrol the water and aren't restricted by state boundaries.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on August 07, 2017, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on August 07, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: tckma on August 07, 2017, 11:49:58 AM

Also, the state border of Delaware is officially designated as the New Jersey shoreline, as is the border of Maryland officially defined as the Virginia/West Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, unlike the border being in the center of the river as in many other such situations.


Because Virginia and the other states ceded their claims to the "territory north-west of the River Ohio" to the national government in the Articles of Confederation era, the border between West Virginia and Kentucky on one hand, and Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois on the other is the low water mark on the north or west side.  So very little of the Ohio river is in Ohio.

I know that West Virginia controls most of the Ohio River because it, too, was a part of Virginia and Virginia originally had control of the river. Kentucky's border is the low-water mark as it existed in 1792 (when Kentucky became a state). Is there a year in the description of WV's border?

And WV also controls the Big Sandy and the Tug Fork where those rivers form the state boundary with Kentucky. WV owns and maintains most of the bridges.

Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 07, 2017, 12:48:54 PM
I've always heard that the Harrah's Casino in Metropolis was on a boat in the Ohio River so they could evade Illinois's gaming laws by technically being in Kentucky.

Always sounded like hogwash to me.

Actually, it's sorta the other way around. When that riverboat first opened, Kentucky's attorney general (I have forgotten his name, as his political career never went any farther) threatened the boat operators if the boat strayed into Kentucky waters. He said, "We don't allow gambling in Kentucky."

Guess he never went to Churchill Downs or Keeneland. :pan:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 08, 2017, 12:44:22 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 07, 2017, 10:12:37 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on August 07, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Quote from: tckma on August 07, 2017, 11:49:58 AM

Also, the state border of Delaware is officially designated as the New Jersey shoreline, as is the border of Maryland officially defined as the Virginia/West Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, unlike the border being in the center of the river as in many other such situations.


Because Virginia and the other states ceded their claims to the "territory north-west of the River Ohio" to the national government in the Articles of Confederation era, the border between West Virginia and Kentucky on one hand, and Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois on the other is the low water mark on the north or west side.  So very little of the Ohio river is in Ohio.

I know that West Virginia controls most of the Ohio River because it, too, was a part of Virginia and Virginia originally had control of the river. Kentucky's border is the low-water mark as it existed in 1792 (when Kentucky became a state). Is there a year in the description of WV's border?

And WV also controls the Big Sandy and the Tug Fork where those rivers form the state boundary with Kentucky. WV owns and maintains most of the bridges.

Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 07, 2017, 12:48:54 PM
I've always heard that the Harrah's Casino in Metropolis was on a boat in the Ohio River so they could evade Illinois's gaming laws by technically being in Kentucky.

Always sounded like hogwash to me.

Actually, it's sorta the other way around. When that riverboat first opened, Kentucky's attorney general (I have forgotten his name, as his political career never went any farther) threatened the boat operators if the boat strayed into Kentucky waters. He said, "We don't allow gambling in Kentucky."

Guess he never went to Churchill Downs or Keeneland. :pan:

That makes more sense. I looked at the area on Google Maps and it looks like the riverboat is docked close enough to shore that it doesn't cross the state line (or at least what Google Maps has marked as the state line). I'm guessing that my source just got the situation backwards.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ilpt4u on August 08, 2017, 12:50:14 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 07, 2017, 12:48:54 PM
I've always heard that the Harrah's Casino in Metropolis was on a boat in the Ohio River so they could evade Illinois's gaming laws by technically being in Kentucky.
FYI the Gambling Floor @ Harrah's Metropolis is now on a land-based structure attached to the Hotel. The old on-river "boat" structure now simply houses the Buffet

IL has changed its gambling laws, allowing land-based gaming floors, I believe. At one point, the casinos actually had to be on boats, and the boats had to leave port every so often.

Of the IL casinos I've been to, only Par-A-Dice in East Peoria is actually still on a boat (in that case, on the IL River)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on August 09, 2017, 01:01:51 PM
There is an Illinois river in both Illinois and Oregon.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on August 09, 2017, 01:42:05 PM
And the only Miami University I've been to was in Ohio, not Florida.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on August 09, 2017, 02:27:01 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PMHeh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
For years, the furthest south I'd gone was Melbourne, FL. I'd always drop the 'FL' bit and confuse people into thinking I'd been to Australia's second city.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on August 09, 2017, 02:36:16 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 07, 2017, 10:12:37 PM
Is there a year in the description of WV's border?

Yes.  Virginia ceded the "territory north-west of the River Ohio" to the national government on 1781.  The so-called "Reorganized Government of Virginia" in 1863 granted the northwestern counties the power to form a new state (actually 90% of the support came from a few Ohio river counties, no place south of what is today US 50 or east of eastern continental divide was asked what they though about it).  WV Constitution 2-1 provides that WV is the successor to all of Virginia's claims to the Ohio and Big Sandy rivers.  So it all relates back to 1781.

BTW, both the Kentucky and West Virginia constitutions provide that "all Virginia laws or actions" not repealed later are still valid.  Thus Kentucky's Transylvania University and West Virginia's Bethany College operate under charters that granted them "all the degree granting power of the University of Virginia" which was the language used to incorporate a college in those days, to this day.  (Similar to Baylor, still under a charter granted by the Republic of Texas).

Quote
He said, "We don't allow gambling in Kentucky."

Guess he never went to Churchill Downs or Keeneland.

My favorite contortion of a law is your previous governor's deal on slot machines.  KY law prohibits slot machines, but allows horse racing.  So, legally slot machines inside the brain of a KY slot machine, the computer is picking the results of decades old horse races, and telling you that you won or lost in a code of pictures of fruit and 7s and the like.  The KY Supreme Court actually bought into that.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 09, 2017, 03:20:13 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on August 09, 2017, 02:36:16 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 07, 2017, 10:12:37 PM
Is there a year in the description of WV's border?

Yes.  Virginia ceded the "territory north-west of the River Ohio" to the national government on 1781.  The so-called "Reorganized Government of Virginia" in 1863 granted the northwestern counties the power to form a new state (actually 90% of the support came from a few Ohio river counties, no place south of what is today US 50 or east of eastern continental divide was asked what they though about it).  WV Constitution 2-1 provides that WV is the successor to all of Virginia's claims to the Ohio and Big Sandy rivers.  So it all relates back to 1781.

BTW, both the Kentucky and West Virginia constitutions provide that "all Virginia laws or actions" not repealed later are still valid.  Thus Kentucky's Transylvania University and West Virginia's Bethany College operate under charters that granted them "all the degree granting power of the University of Virginia" which was the language used to incorporate a college in those days, to this day.  (Similar to Baylor, still under a charter granted by the Republic of Texas).

Quote
He said, "We don't allow gambling in Kentucky."

Guess he never went to Churchill Downs or Keeneland.

My favorite contortion of a law is your previous governor's deal on slot machines.  KY law prohibits slot machines, but allows horse racing.  So, legally slot machines inside the brain of a KY slot machine, the computer is picking the results of decades old horse races, and telling you that you won or lost in a code of pictures of fruit and 7s and the like.  The KY Supreme Court actually bought into that.

And any school founded before the American Revolution is still operating under a charter from Great Britain.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: sparker on August 09, 2017, 04:03:01 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...

Back about '90 I was on one of my cross-country jaunts, this time in late February.  Was supposed to stay in Springfield, MO that particular evening, but a late-winter snowstorm stranded me in Miami, OK (I-44 was shut down east of there).  There was a large wooden sign on a brick superstructure at the foot of the turnpike ramp with the phrase "Welcome To Miami" dominating it and a bunch of other logos (lodges, chamber of commerce, etc.) below that -- and it was packed with at least 3 ft. of snow on the top.  One look and I decided I absolutely had to get a picture of that piece of unintentional irony!  Couldn't stop there, as everyone eastbound on 44 was either in front of me or right behind me.  Managed to find a halfway-decent motel a block away, and after checking in, trudged back to the interchange, camera in hand, and took several shots of the sign.  Unfortunately, several years later the pictures were in storage and disappeared when I had a storage-space theft (someone backed a truck through the roll-up door of my space and about 10 others around it and took a sampling of what was on either side of the doorway, including the filing cabinet where I had my photo albums).  That was one of the better pictures I had taken on my trips; I was sorry to see it go!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on August 09, 2017, 08:58:03 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on August 09, 2017, 02:36:16 PM

My favorite contortion of a law is your previous governor's deal on slot machines.  KY law prohibits slot machines, but allows horse racing.  So, legally slot machines inside the brain of a KY slot machine, the computer is picking the results of decades old horse races, and telling you that you won or lost in a code of pictures of fruit and 7s and the like.  The KY Supreme Court actually bought into that.

"Instant racing," they call it. I've never seen one of those machines, but they're limited to licensing to horse tracks. I think the Red Mile harness track in Lexington has a bank of them, and I'm pretty sure that racetrack in Franklin, just north of the Tennessee lines (Kentucky Downs?) has them too.

There's something about them that's still being litigated. A friend of mine (former chief of staff to Gov. Ernie Fletcher) is one of the lawyers in the case.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on August 09, 2017, 11:06:17 PM
London is north of Calgary. (51.5N and 51.0N)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 09, 2017, 11:13:23 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...

This technically fits the thread:

Miami, Florida was not named after the Miami tribe in Ohio. It was named after the Mayami people that inhabited South Florida.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on August 10, 2017, 12:02:29 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand

The population of New Zealand is about the same population as the city of Los Angeles.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on August 10, 2017, 01:13:23 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 10, 2017, 12:02:29 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand

The population of New Zealand is about the same population as the city of Los Angeles.

I thought I heard somewhere that the sheep population in NZ outnumbers the human population there 7 to 1???
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on August 10, 2017, 01:15:29 PM
Oswego County, NY has approximately the same population as all three Canadian territories combined.

The Rochester metro area has more population than all of Vermont.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on August 10, 2017, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...

Miami, OK is pronounced Miama. I think Miami, TX is too.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on August 10, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 10, 2017, 01:13:23 PMI thought I heard somewhere that the sheep population in NZ outnumbers the human population there 7 to 1???
20 to 1 is the conventional wisdom.

However it was 4.6 million people, and 29.5 million sheep in 2015 so 7 is about right. It was 22 to 1 in 1982 but sheep numbers have fallen to about 40% of what they were and population has increased by about 40% in the 35 years since.

No statistics are given for the number of sheep-human hybrids.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on August 10, 2017, 02:05:49 PM
Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
No statistics are given for the number of sheep-human hybrids.

The total number of sheep, humans, and hybrids combined is (√29.5M+√4.6M)² = 57.4 million.
Since there are 29.5 million sheep, and 4.6 million humans, that means there are 23.3 million hybrids.

Another way to get the answer of 23.3 million is 2*√29.5M*√4.6M.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on August 10, 2017, 03:27:55 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 10, 2017, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...

Miami, OK is pronounced Miama. I think Miami, TX is too.
I wonder if Waze and other navigation programs would recognize the difference...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on August 10, 2017, 03:33:19 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 10, 2017, 03:27:55 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 10, 2017, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...

Miami, OK is pronounced Miama. I think Miami, TX is too.
I wonder if Waze and other navigation programs would recognize the difference...

I'm not sure. However, fairly recently, Waze started pronouncing "Reading" correctly. It was Reading, MA, which is correctly pronounced with the first syllable as "red", just like Reading, PA. Previously, Waze (or more likely the iPhone itself) was pronouncing "Reading" as if it was something you do to a book.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on August 10, 2017, 05:46:29 PM
Quote from: 1 on August 10, 2017, 03:33:19 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 10, 2017, 03:27:55 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 10, 2017, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...

Miami, OK is pronounced Miama. I think Miami, TX is too.
I wonder if Waze and other navigation programs would recognize the difference...

I'm not sure. However, fairly recently, Waze started pronouncing "Reading" correctly. It was Reading, MA, which is correctly pronounced with the first syllable as "red", just like Reading, PA. Previously, Waze (or more likely the iPhone itself) was pronouncing "Reading" as if it was something you do to a book.

Makes be wonder how programs pronounce Berlin when it comes to CT, MA, NH, and NY.  Do they pronounce it like the city in Germany, or correctly put the emphasis on the first syllable and say BER-lin?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on August 10, 2017, 06:01:32 PM
There was a thread about place name pronounciations some time ago: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=2910.0
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on August 10, 2017, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 10, 2017, 01:13:23 PMI thought I heard somewhere that the sheep population in NZ outnumbers the human population there 7 to 1???
20 to 1 is the conventional wisdom.

However it was 4.6 million people, and 29.5 million sheep in 2015 so 7 is about right. It was 22 to 1 in 1982 but sheep numbers have fallen to about 40% of what they were and population has increased by about 40% in the 35 years since.

That sounds like South Dakota, where there are, on average, 4.32 cows for every human.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: sparker on August 10, 2017, 07:22:27 PM
Quote from: 1 on August 10, 2017, 02:05:49 PM
Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
No statistics are given for the number of sheep-human hybrids.

The total number of sheep, humans, and hybrids combined is (√29.5M+√4.6M)² = 57.4 million.
Since there are 29.5 million sheep, and 4.6 million humans, that means there are 23.3 million hybrids.

Another way to get the answer of 23.3 million is 2*√29.5M*√4.6M.

What would the hybrids be called -- I'll guess "Schumanns" (the late composer would be so pleased with the association!).  Baa!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on August 11, 2017, 10:22:59 AM
Quote from: sparker on August 10, 2017, 07:22:27 PMWhat would the hybrids be called -- I'll guess "Schumanns" (the late composer would be so pleased with the association!).  Baa!
It ought to be a loan word from the Welsh, so: Defaidyn - a portmanteau of Defaid, the Welsh for sheep, and Dyn, the Welsh for man. I've totally butchered the grammar and all that, but who cares.

If you must make it English, then 'eweman' seems rather good.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on August 12, 2017, 03:24:53 PM
"Taiwan" isn't just Taiwan. It also includes several islands off the Fujian coast (most notably Kinmen or Jinmen as I spell it, of course all of them claimed by China), which are administered as a separate province. This Fujian province is of course different from the "true" Fujian Province of mainland China. This has led me to change my shorthand name for the so-called "Republic of China" as a whole from Taiwan to Chinese Taipei (however I spell the city as Taibei for consistency sake).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on August 12, 2017, 07:50:45 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 10, 2017, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...

Miami, OK is pronounced Miama. I think Miami, TX is too.
Miam-uh is how old time native Floridians called the city in Florida. My Grandparents from Alachua and Marion Counties said it that way.  Even Miami natives said it that way, back when Miami natives had Southern accents

LGMS428

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 14, 2017, 10:00:57 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on August 12, 2017, 07:50:45 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 10, 2017, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...

Miami, OK is pronounced Miama. I think Miami, TX is too.
Miam-uh is how old time native Floridians called the city in Florida. My Grandparents from Alachua and Marion Counties said it that way.  Even Miami natives said it that way, back when Miami natives had Southern accents

LGMS428

When did Miami natives have Southern accents? I'm legitimately curious because my understanding of the history of South Florida is that it was't heavily settled by native Southerners and that the majority of early settlers were Northerners. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on August 15, 2017, 06:56:21 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 14, 2017, 10:00:57 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on August 12, 2017, 07:50:45 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 10, 2017, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...

Miami, OK is pronounced Miama. I think Miami, TX is too.
Miam-uh is how old time native Floridians called the city in Florida. My Grandparents from Alachua and Marion Counties said it that way.  Even Miami natives said it that way, back when Miami natives had Southern accents

LGMS428

When did Miami natives have Southern accents? I'm legitimately curious because my understanding of the history of South Florida is that it was't heavily settled by native Southerners and that the majority of early settlers were Northerners.
Until the 1940s and 50s even into the 1960s.. The beaches were never really Southern.. However the inland suburbs had lots of people move in from states like Georgia for work obviously there children had Southern accents. There was always a Cuban community but that exploded after 1959. A Miami (really most of Florida) native above 60 is a rare bird indeed.

Miami was founded in 1896 so it is all very new compared to other places.. And it was never "Deep South".  North Florida and most of central Florida, even Orlando was "Deep South" until relativally recently.

LGMS428
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on August 15, 2017, 08:10:16 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on August 15, 2017, 06:56:21 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 14, 2017, 10:00:57 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on August 12, 2017, 07:50:45 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 10, 2017, 01:32:59 PM
Quote from: kalvado on August 09, 2017, 01:29:47 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 09, 2017, 01:11:25 PM
^^^

Heh....I used to find it amusing to talk about Miami in Florida and see the puzzled look people would give me when I talked about all the mines.  Usually I'd throw in "Highway 60" which added to the confusion since FL 60 isn't anywhere near Miami, FL.  I guess nobody would think a state like Arizona would have a fairly historic mining town which is also called "Miami."
Miami AZ, population 1800
Miami CA, abandoned
Miami IN, unincorporated community
Miami MS, population 175
Miami NM, unincorporated community
Miami OK, population 13500 - a seat of Ottawa county
Miami TX, population 600

Miami Indian nation gave name to many of the above; and also Miami counties in OH(population over 100k), IN(37k), KS(32k), village of New Miami OH (2500) etc


There is a reason for using city, state format...

Miami, OK is pronounced Miama. I think Miami, TX is too.
Miam-uh is how old time native Floridians called the city in Florida. My Grandparents from Alachua and Marion Counties said it that way.  Even Miami natives said it that way, back when Miami natives had Southern accents

LGMS428

When did Miami natives have Southern accents? I'm legitimately curious because my understanding of the history of South Florida is that it was't heavily settled by native Southerners and that the majority of early settlers were Northerners.
Until the 1940s and 50s even into the 1960s.. The beaches were never really Southern.. However the inland suburbs had lots of people move in from states like Georgia for work obviously there children had Southern accents. There was always a Cuban community but that exploded after 1959. A Miami (really most of Florida) native above 60 is a rare bird indeed.

Miami was founded in 1896 so it is all very new compared to other places.. And it was never "Deep South".  North Florida and most of central Florida, even Orlando was "Deep South" until relativally recently.

LGMS428

That makes sense.

The mention of Georgia reminds me of the fun fact that Atlanta is as far from Chicago as it is Miami.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on August 16, 2017, 02:47:28 PM
If you were to take a road trip from Key West, FL, to Brownsville, TX, slightly more than half of your trip's mileage would be in Florida.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on August 25, 2017, 07:04:03 AM
The West Virginia section of Appalachian Trail (fully within the state i.e. through Harpers Ferry, not counting border sections) is East of the Virginia section.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on August 26, 2017, 12:25:38 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Nevada


Reno,NV is Nevada's third largest city but Henderson is Nevada's second largest city.

Well I would have guess Reno at first for second largest city in Nevada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on August 26, 2017, 04:52:02 PM
The eclipse's path of totality passed over both Nashville, Oregon and Nashville, Tennessee. Same for Independence, Oregon and Independence, Missouri.

It also passed over Dallas, Oregon; the 2024 eclipse's path of totality will pass over Dallas, Texas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on August 27, 2017, 11:23:51 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 26, 2017, 12:25:38 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Nevada


Reno,NV is Nevada's third largest city but Henderson is Nevada's second largest city.

Well I would have guess Reno at first for second largest city in Nevada.
Is henderson a large suburb of las vegas?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 28, 2017, 06:25:01 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 27, 2017, 11:23:51 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 26, 2017, 12:25:38 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Nevada


Reno,NV is Nevada's third largest city but Henderson is Nevada's second largest city.

Well I would have guess Reno at first for second largest city in Nevada.
Is henderson a large suburb of las vegas?

Henderson has about 293,000 residents according to the 2010 census and a large suburb of Las Vegas.  Reno only has a population of 241,000 approximately during the same year. 

Speaking of Nevada interesting fact about Esmeralda County is that it has an area slightly larger than Deleware and Rhode Island combined.  That being the case Esmeralda County is the second least densely populated county in the country with about 800 residents compared to about the 2 million the combined states have.   In fact if you took Clark County out of the equation the state would only have a population density of about 8.5 which conveys how desolate the Great Basin really can be.  For comparisons sake Alaska is about 1.26 people per square mile, Wyoming is at 5.97, and Montana is at about 7.09.   Interesting to consider that the majority of Nevada had essentially died out with the mining boom associated with the Comstock Lode era before the Las Vegas area began to get big.

Another fun Nevada fact for the thread.  The ghost town of Aurora which is located in Mineral County was the original county seat of Mono County in California.  Aurora was founded in 1860 while Nevada was split off from Utah into a territory in 1861, Nevada didn't even become a state until 1864.  The boundary between both states wasn't exactly clear for long time until proper surveys took place.  I want to say Doyle in Lassen County was originally a Nevada town before switching to California?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on August 28, 2017, 07:32:24 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise,_Nevada

Paradise, NV is larger than North Las Vegas in population but North Las Vegas is listed as Nevada's 4th largest city. And Paradise is Nevada's largest unincorporated district of Clark county.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on August 28, 2017, 07:36:09 AM
Quote from: bing101 on August 28, 2017, 07:32:24 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise,_Nevada

Fixed link. Please do not link to mobile Wikipedia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on August 28, 2017, 02:47:23 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 28, 2017, 06:25:01 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 27, 2017, 11:23:51 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 26, 2017, 12:25:38 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Nevada


Reno,NV is Nevada's third largest city but Henderson is Nevada's second largest city.

Well I would have guess Reno at first for second largest city in Nevada.
Is henderson a large suburb of las vegas?

Henderson has about 293,000 residents according to the 2010 census and a large suburb of Las Vegas.  Reno only has a population of 241,000 approximately during the same year. 

Speaking of Nevada interesting fact about Esmeralda County is that it has an area slightly larger than Deleware and Rhode Island combined.  That being the case Esmeralda County is the second least densely populated county in the country with about 800 residents compared to about the 2 million the combined states have.   In fact if you took Clark County out of the equation the state would only have a population density of about 8.5 which conveys how desolate the Great Basin really can be.  For comparisons sake Alaska is about 1.26 people per square mile, Wyoming is at 5.97, and Montana is at about 7.09.   Interesting to consider that the majority of Nevada had essentially died out with the mining boom associated with the Comstock Lode era before the Las Vegas area began to get big.

Another fun Nevada fact for the thread.  The ghost town of Aurora which is located in Mineral County was the original county seat of Mono County in California.  Aurora was founded in 1860 while Nevada was split off from Utah into a territory in 1861, Nevada didn't even become a state until 1864.  The boundary between both states wasn't exactly clear for long time until proper surveys took place.  I want to say Doyle in Lassen County was originally a Nevada town before switching to California?
Is the reno metro area big?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on August 28, 2017, 04:27:46 PM
You can get to all but 3 contiguous states and DC from Illinois by staying on a single route.

Alabama: US 45
Alaska: Not contiguous
Arizona: US 60
Arkansas: I-55
California: I-80
Colorado: I-70
Connecticut: US 6
Delaware: US 40
Florida: US 41
Georgia: US 41
Hawaii: Not contiguous
Idaho: I-90
Illinois: Same state
Indiana: I-90
Iowa: I-80
Kansas: I-70
Kentucky: I-24
Louisiana: I-55
Maine: None
Maryland: I-70
Massachusetts: I-90
Michigan: I-94
Minnesota: I-94
Mississippi: I-55
Missouri: I-70
Montana: I-94
Nebraska: I-80
Nevada: I-80
New Hampshire: None
New Jersey: I-80
New Mexico: US 60
New York: I-90
North Carolina: US 52
North Dakota: I-94
Ohio: I-90
Oklahoma: US 60
Oregon: US 20
Pennsylvania: I-70
Rhode Island: US 6
South Carolina: US 52
South Dakota: I-90
Tennessee: US 41
Texas: US 60
Utah: I-70
Vermont: None
Virginia: US 50
Washington: I-90
West Virginia: I-70
Wisconsin: I-90
Wyoming: I-90
DC: US 50

(Vermont is very poorly connected; it only connects with New York, New Hampshire, Maine, Massachusetts, and Connecticut, and the other US 2 states if you consider US 2 to be a single route. Pennsylvania could be added if VT 9/NY 7/PA 29 was given a single number. Still, that's only 13 out of 47; I-95 alone has more.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on August 28, 2017, 04:31:34 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 28, 2017, 02:47:23 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 28, 2017, 06:25:01 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 27, 2017, 11:23:51 PM
Quote from: bing101 on August 26, 2017, 12:25:38 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Nevada


Reno,NV is Nevada's third largest city but Henderson is Nevada's second largest city.

Well I would have guess Reno at first for second largest city in Nevada.
Is henderson a large suburb of las vegas?

Henderson has about 293,000 residents according to the 2010 census and a large suburb of Las Vegas.  Reno only has a population of 241,000 approximately during the same year. 

Speaking of Nevada interesting fact about Esmeralda County is that it has an area slightly larger than Deleware and Rhode Island combined.  That being the case Esmeralda County is the second least densely populated county in the country with about 800 residents compared to about the 2 million the combined states have.   In fact if you took Clark County out of the equation the state would only have a population density of about 8.5 which conveys how desolate the Great Basin really can be.  For comparisons sake Alaska is about 1.26 people per square mile, Wyoming is at 5.97, and Montana is at about 7.09.   Interesting to consider that the majority of Nevada had essentially died out with the mining boom associated with the Comstock Lode era before the Las Vegas area began to get big.

Another fun Nevada fact for the thread.  The ghost town of Aurora which is located in Mineral County was the original county seat of Mono County in California.  Aurora was founded in 1860 while Nevada was split off from Utah into a territory in 1861, Nevada didn't even become a state until 1864.  The boundary between both states wasn't exactly clear for long time until proper surveys took place.  I want to say Doyle in Lassen County was originally a Nevada town before switching to California?
Is the reno metro area big?

No, about 425,000 people. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on August 28, 2017, 11:31:04 PM
Quote from: 1 on August 28, 2017, 04:27:46 PM
You can get to all but 3 contiguous states and DC from Illinois by staying on a single route.

If you just count only routes that pass through the Chicagoland Area, you can still reach 39 of the 48 contiguous states today using a single route.

(* -- 44 if US-66 was still officially around).

Alabama: US 45
Arizona: None*
Arkansas: I-55
California: I-80
Colorado: US-6
Connecticut: US 6
Delaware: None
Florida: US 41
Georgia: US 41
Idaho: I-90
Illinois: Same state
Indiana: I-90
Iowa: I-80
Kansas: None*
Kentucky: US-41
Louisiana: I-55
Maine: None
Maryland: None
Massachusetts: I-90
Michigan: I-94
Minnesota: I-94
Mississippi: I-55
Missouri: I-57
Montana: I-94
Nebraska: I-80
Nevada: I-80
New Hampshire: None
New Jersey: I-80
New Mexico: None*
New York: I-90
North Carolina: US 52
North Dakota: I-94
Ohio: I-90
Oklahoma: None*
Oregon: US 20
Pennsylvania: US-6
Rhode Island: US 6
South Carolina: US 52
South Dakota: I-90
Tennessee: US 41
Texas: None*
Utah: US-6
Vermont: None
Virginia: US-52
Washington: I-90
West Virginia: US-30
Wisconsin: I-90
Wyoming: I-90
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on August 29, 2017, 05:57:05 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 28, 2017, 11:31:04 PM

If you just count only routes that pass through the Chicagoland Area, you can still reach 38 of the 48 contiguous states today using a single route.

Virginia: None


You forgot US 52.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on August 29, 2017, 07:57:57 AM
Quote from: 1 on August 28, 2017, 04:27:46 PM
You can get to all but 3 contiguous states and DC from Illinois by staying on a single route.

Alabama: US 45
Alaska: Not contiguous
Arizona: US 60
Arkansas: I-55
California: I-80
Colorado: I-70
Connecticut: US 6
Delaware: US 40
Florida: US 41
Georgia: US 41
Hawaii: Not contiguous
Idaho: I-90
Illinois: Same state
Indiana: I-90
Iowa: I-80
Kansas: I-70
Kentucky: I-24
Louisiana: I-55
Maine: None
Maryland: I-70
Massachusetts: I-90
Michigan: I-94
Minnesota: I-94
Mississippi: I-55
Missouri: I-70
Montana: I-94
Nebraska: I-80
Nevada: I-80
New Hampshire: None
New Jersey: I-80
New Mexico: US 60
New York: I-90
North Carolina: US 52
North Dakota: I-94
Ohio: I-90
Oklahoma: US 60
Oregon: US 20
Pennsylvania: I-70
Rhode Island: US 6
South Carolina: US 52
South Dakota: I-90
Tennessee: US 41
Texas: US 60
Utah: I-70
Vermont: None
Virginia: US 50
Washington: I-90
West Virginia: I-70
Wisconsin: I-90
Wyoming: I-90
DC: US 50

(Vermont is very poorly connected; it only connects with New York, New Hampshire, Maine, Massachusetts, and Connecticut, and the other US 2 states if you consider US 2 to be a single route. Pennsylvania could be added if VT 9/NY 7/PA 29 was given a single number. Still, that's only 13 out of 47; I-95 alone has more.)

And you can reach the three missing ones by changing routes once (VT is I-90 to I-91, NH and ME is I-90 to I-95, VT and NH can also be done by I-90 to US 4).

And for the record, for my own purposes I know the Western US 2 as US 0, as it is a different route. That leaves VT with only 5.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on August 29, 2017, 10:52:49 AM
Quote from: 1 on August 29, 2017, 05:57:05 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 28, 2017, 11:31:04 PM

If you just count only routes that pass through the Chicagoland Area, you can still reach 38 of the 48 contiguous states today using a single route.

Virginia: None


You forgot US 52.

I did. Fixed. Thanks!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on November 07, 2017, 12:17:49 AM
Soon you'll be able to add I-57 to Arkansas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on December 03, 2017, 08:36:21 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 03, 2017, 08:34:54 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempstead,_New_York

Hempstead, New York is classified as a town but its population is bigger than Seattle, Washington though and its bigger than Vancouver, BC proper. Its population is close to San Francisco proper though.

You posted the same thing on Page 5.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 03, 2017, 08:39:17 PM
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/darkest-town-in-america/

Gerlach, Nevada is the most populated place in the United States where you can easily see the stars in the U.S. Mainland.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on December 03, 2017, 08:39:53 PM
Jacksonville has more people than Miami.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on December 03, 2017, 08:43:58 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 03, 2017, 08:39:17 PM
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/darkest-town-in-america/

Gerlach, Nevada is the most populated place in the United States where you can easily see the stars in the U.S. Mainland.

[not in citation given]
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 03, 2017, 09:42:29 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 03, 2017, 08:39:53 PM
Jacksonville has more people than Miami.

Jacksonville consolidated with most of Duval County which helps out in terms of sheer population numbers.  But that said the population density of Jacksonville is about 1,200 per square mile while Miami is approaching 13,000.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on December 04, 2017, 10:18:09 AM
If Miami were consolidated with the county it would have population of well over 2 million.  Duval County has just over 900k.

Another factor in the density in Miami is the Everglades constraining all development right along the coast.  Jacksonville is much more spread out.  So although Miami-Dade county is larger geographically people live in a much smaller area than Duval

Z981
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mgk920 on December 04, 2017, 10:38:42 AM
Before it became part of the city in the great amalgamation of 20 years ago, one of Toronto's (as in 'Ontario') suburbs (North York) was more populous than the city itself.

Mike
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: texaskdog on December 04, 2017, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on August 10, 2017, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 10, 2017, 01:13:23 PMI thought I heard somewhere that the sheep population in NZ outnumbers the human population there 7 to 1???
20 to 1 is the conventional wisdom.

However it was 4.6 million people, and 29.5 million sheep in 2015 so 7 is about right. It was 22 to 1 in 1982 but sheep numbers have fallen to about 40% of what they were and population has increased by about 40% in the 35 years since.

That sounds like South Dakota, where there are, on average, 4.32 cows for every human.

They may be planning a revolt
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 04, 2017, 12:24:44 PM
Some time ago I did some measurements around my area and found some long distances (for Spanish standards): 40 miles between two villages of the same municipality, 175 miles between two towns of the same province. Now that is something.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Vardø, Norway is further East than Kiev.
Quote from: 1 on December 03, 2017, 08:36:21 PM
You posted the same thing on Page 5.

And exactly on the same date 2 years ago. And already on the first page I mentioned Virginia reaches farther West than West Virginia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on December 04, 2017, 12:57:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 09, 2017, 08:58:03 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on August 09, 2017, 02:36:16 PM

My favorite contortion of a law is your previous governor's deal on slot machines.  KY law prohibits slot machines, but allows horse racing.  So, legally slot machines inside the brain of a KY slot machine, the computer is picking the results of decades old horse races, and telling you that you won or lost in a code of pictures of fruit and 7s and the like.  The KY Supreme Court actually bought into that.

"Instant racing," they call it. I've never seen one of those machines, but they're limited to licensing to horse tracks. I think the Red Mile harness track in Lexington has a bank of them, and I'm pretty sure that racetrack in Franklin, just north of the Tennessee lines (Kentucky Downs?) has them too.

There's something about them that's still being litigated. A friend of mine (former chief of staff to Gov. Ernie Fletcher) is one of the lawyers in the case.

We had a similar contortion in Oklahoma, where tribes were allowed to operate bingo games but not slot machines. So companies sprang up (chiefly VGT, AGS, and Multimedia) creating electronic bingo games (i.e. Class II games) that also had a reel display. It looks like a slot machine, but the reels are marked "For entertainment purposes only" and the payout is determined by a bingo card that displays on a screen above the reels, though of course the reels are supposed to match what the card says. If the reels were to theoretically malfunction and show three sevens when the card showed no win, the casino would not pay out anything because the reels have no legal meaning, only the bingo card.

Operating real (Class III) slot machines is now legal in Oklahoma, but the gamblers are so used to the old VGT and AGS games that most casinos here still have plenty of them. Because VGT cabinets for the most part ship with real, physical bells inside that ring on a win, an Oklahoma casino sounds distinctively more rambunctious than a casino elsewhere.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on December 04, 2017, 02:04:44 PM
Some things I also found weird in Oklahoma Casinos:

- The roulette wheels do not use the traditional wheel with the ball -- instead there is a roulette-type spinner that the employee spins then stops manually.  In each slot there is a card that shows a roulette number for the winner.

- Dice are not used on the crap tables -- instead there are playing cards that are used -- each "card" is a dice "roll", showing a pair of dice in various combinations.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on December 04, 2017, 02:10:41 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 04, 2017, 02:04:44 PM
- Dice are not used on the crap tables -- instead there are playing cards that are used -- each "card" is a dice "roll", showing a pair of dice in various combinations.

Part of the fun of Craps is rolling the dice yourself...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on December 04, 2017, 05:17:26 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on December 04, 2017, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on August 10, 2017, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 10, 2017, 01:13:23 PMI thought I heard somewhere that the sheep population in NZ outnumbers the human population there 7 to 1???
20 to 1 is the conventional wisdom.

However it was 4.6 million people, and 29.5 million sheep in 2015 so 7 is about right. It was 22 to 1 in 1982 but sheep numbers have fallen to about 40% of what they were and population has increased by about 40% in the 35 years since.

That sounds like South Dakota, where there are, on average, 4.32 cows for every human.

They may be planning a revolt
I hope they win, I love some cheese and ice cream.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SD Mapman on December 04, 2017, 11:49:37 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on December 04, 2017, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on August 10, 2017, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 10, 2017, 01:13:23 PMI thought I heard somewhere that the sheep population in NZ outnumbers the human population there 7 to 1???
20 to 1 is the conventional wisdom.

However it was 4.6 million people, and 29.5 million sheep in 2015 so 7 is about right. It was 22 to 1 in 1982 but sheep numbers have fallen to about 40% of what they were and population has increased by about 40% in the 35 years since.

That sounds like South Dakota, where there are, on average, 4.32 cows for every human.

They may be planning a revolt
But we have all the guns

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 04, 2017, 05:17:26 PM
I hope they win, I love some cheese and ice cream.
But how would you get those without us to make them for you?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SD Mapman on December 04, 2017, 11:51:01 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on December 04, 2017, 11:49:37 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on December 04, 2017, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on August 10, 2017, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 10, 2017, 01:13:23 PMI thought I heard somewhere that the sheep population in NZ outnumbers the human population there 7 to 1???
20 to 1 is the conventional wisdom.

However it was 4.6 million people, and 29.5 million sheep in 2015 so 7 is about right. It was 22 to 1 in 1982 but sheep numbers have fallen to about 40% of what they were and population has increased by about 40% in the 35 years since.

That sounds like South Dakota, where there are, on average, 4.32 cows for every human.

They may be planning a revolt
But we have all the guns

Also Newell, SD is the Sheep Capitol of the World

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 04, 2017, 05:17:26 PM
I hope they win, I love some cheese and ice cream.
But how would you get those without us to make them for you?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on December 05, 2017, 04:54:27 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on December 04, 2017, 11:49:37 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on December 04, 2017, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on August 10, 2017, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 10, 2017, 01:13:23 PMI thought I heard somewhere that the sheep population in NZ outnumbers the human population there 7 to 1???
20 to 1 is the conventional wisdom.

However it was 4.6 million people, and 29.5 million sheep in 2015 so 7 is about right. It was 22 to 1 in 1982 but sheep numbers have fallen to about 40% of what they were and population has increased by about 40% in the 35 years since.

That sounds like South Dakota, where there are, on average, 4.32 cows for every human.

They may be planning a revolt
But we have all the guns

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 04, 2017, 05:17:26 PM
I hope they win, I love some cheese and ice cream.
But how would you get those without us to make them for you?
They can evolve.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on December 06, 2017, 04:24:00 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 04, 2017, 02:04:44 PM
Some things I also found weird in Oklahoma Casinos:

- The roulette wheels do not use the traditional wheel with the ball -- instead there is a roulette-type spinner that the employee spins then stops manually.  In each slot there is a card that shows a roulette number for the winner.

- Dice are not used on the crap tables -- instead there are playing cards that are used -- each "card" is a dice "roll", showing a pair of dice in various combinations.

This is, of course, because dice games and roulette are both illegal in Oklahoma, while card games are fine.

An alternate way of dealing roulette in Oklahoma is to shuffle a 38-card deck and draw a card from it. That card is inserted into a scanner, which reads the card and displays the result on a CGI roulette wheel (king of clubs equals 0, king of diamonds equals 00, ace of spades equals 1, etc.) Then the bets are paid out accordingly. But because you're "really" getting paid out on that king of clubs instead of the 0 showing on the screen, it's legal.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on December 08, 2017, 07:43:05 AM
Even though St Pierre et Miquelon is in North America....to call Canada or the US....you must first dial the international access code +country code + area code + number. The clerk on the hotel desk said it might be expensive and then asked if I had a cell phone. I did and he said to just go up to the top of the street and I would connect with a tower about 10 miles away in Newfoundland. I did and it was then just a free call as if I was dialing from anywhere else in Canada!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 08, 2017, 10:04:17 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on December 08, 2017, 07:43:05 AM
Even though St Pierre et Miquelon is in North America....to call Canada or the US....you must first dial the international access code +country code + area code + number. The clerk on the hotel desk said it might be expensive and then asked if I had a cell phone. I did and he said to just go up to the top of the street and I would connect with a tower about 10 miles away in Newfoundland. I did and it was then just a free call as if I was dialing from anywhere else in Canada!

Funny....if you stand at the end of Point Loma in San Diego it will connect you to cellular service in Baja California and will even send you a text welcoming you to Mexico.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 08, 2017, 10:07:14 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on December 08, 2017, 07:43:05 AM
Even though St Pierre et Miquelon is in North America....to call Canada or the US....you must first dial the international access code +country code + area code + number. The clerk on the hotel desk said it might be expensive and then asked if I had a cell phone. I did and he said to just go up to the top of the street and I would connect with a tower about 10 miles away in Newfoundland. I did and it was then just a free call as if I was dialing from anywhere else in Canada!

That happens because St. Pierre and Miquelon is part... of France! Being an overseas collectivity it also has its own country code, 508 (as opposed to Metropolitan France's 33, although calls from and to St. Pierre and Miquelon from there can be done as regular French phone numbers). It also has a time oddity, using UTC+3 which is half a hour ahead of Newfoundland despite being West of about half of Newfoundland, including St. John's and Dildo :bigass: (However it uses North American DST as opposed to European DST).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on December 08, 2017, 05:18:27 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 08, 2017, 10:04:17 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on December 08, 2017, 07:43:05 AM
Even though St Pierre et Miquelon is in North America....to call Canada or the US....you must first dial the international access code +country code + area code + number. The clerk on the hotel desk said it might be expensive and then asked if I had a cell phone. I did and he said to just go up to the top of the street and I would connect with a tower about 10 miles away in Newfoundland. I did and it was then just a free call as if I was dialing from anywhere else in Canada!

Funny....if you stand at the end of Point Loma in San Diego it will connect you to cellular service in Baja California and will even send you a text welcoming you to Mexico.

I had something similar happen in Babb, Montana near Glacier NP. The area has poor cell service to begin with, but when I drove near Babb my phone connected to a Canadian network and I got a text regarding international rates and plans (and they were steep! $1/min, $1.30 per video or photo sent, $0.50 per text message, and $2.05 per MB of data).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 08, 2017, 05:33:43 PM
Exactly the same happened to me some years ago near the Spain/France border, my phone connected to a French network and refused to return to Spain until I moved away from the border. Now it wouldn't happen anymore, as international rates have been abolished within the European Union.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 08, 2017, 06:04:50 PM
From National Geographic:
Poor immigrants in Djibouti City trying to get cell signal from Somalia by standing on the shore of the Gulf of Aden

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fproof.nationalgeographic.com%2Ffiles%2F2013%2F12%2Fngm-2013-djibouti-stanmeyer1.jpg&hash=5ff34207ba4707a5e5c48c9da6a01ae63d3e5fc7)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 7/8 on December 08, 2017, 07:38:58 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 08, 2017, 05:33:43 PM
Exactly the same happened to me some years ago near the Spain/France border, my phone connected to a French network and refused to return to Spain until I moved away from the border. Now it wouldn't happen anymore, as international rates have been abolished within the European Union.

I wish Canada and the US would get rid of the extra charges. Why does it cost more for me to call Buffalo, NY than Vancouver, BC? And why are data and phone calls so expensive for me to make just across the border only a few hours from home, but there's no extra charges to this when I'm in Saskatoon, SK?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on December 08, 2017, 07:50:44 PM
Because Telcos contribute big bucks to both parties' campaigns.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on December 08, 2017, 07:58:51 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on December 08, 2017, 07:38:58 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 08, 2017, 05:33:43 PM
Exactly the same happened to me some years ago near the Spain/France border, my phone connected to a French network and refused to return to Spain until I moved away from the border. Now it wouldn't happen anymore, as international rates have been abolished within the European Union.

I wish Canada and the US would get rid of the extra charges. Why does it cost more for me to call Buffalo, NY than Vancouver, BC? And why are data and phone calls so expensive for me to make just across the border only a few hours from home, but there's no extra charges to this when I'm in Saskatoon, SK?

Imagine being in Calais, ME and within sight of St. Stephen, NB across the St. Croix River, and it costs more to place a phone call or send a message to someone a mile or two away than it costs to do the same to someone in Honolulu almost 5500 miles away. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on December 08, 2017, 08:17:29 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 08, 2017, 05:33:43 PMNow it wouldn't happen anymore, as international rates have been abolished within the European Union.
They'd have been abolished years ago, at least on the more premium contracts, if the EU hadn't butted in and said "ooh, that sounds like a good idea, we'll make you do this" and then took years to get the law that mandates no roaming charges in the EU (which means the poorer who don't travel as much subsidise the jet set who whizz around the continent) - they mostly all waited...

I say mostly as there were a few that charged something like 13p a text across several countries, but that was better, when travelling, than the 10p in the UK and 20p in France so you swapped sims or used two phones if you often went abroad.

And, of course, the UK networks suddenly went from roaming charges everywhere outside the UK to, after the law, no charges in 38-50 odd countries and territories (depending on network) - far more than the ~32 that are in the single market! Why? Because the EU had nothing much to do with them wanting to offer no roaming charges, merely made it prudent to delay.
Quote from: kkt on December 08, 2017, 07:50:44 PMBecause Telcos contribute big bucks to both parties' campaigns.
You would have thought though, that there would be a market for cheap phone charges while abroad (even if you pay a bit more for it) - even if they don't want it mandatory (though that's always an excuse to up everyone's fees even if only some use the service).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on December 09, 2017, 01:55:15 AM
I guess I don't get why the EU deciding to make it a rule would incentivise delaying it.  I could see if they needed to wait for mandated specifications or something, but "don't charge for roaming" sounds pretty simple to me.

As for a market, there is... at least with some prepaid providers.  My plan with Cricket includes unlimited roaming in Canada and Mexico as long as at least half the usage is in the US.  Including data.  Many providers also sell (or did, anyways) special international data plans.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GreenLanternCorps on December 09, 2017, 04:27:29 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on December 04, 2017, 10:48:34 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on August 10, 2017, 07:17:37 PM
Quote from: english si on August 10, 2017, 01:58:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 10, 2017, 01:13:23 PMI thought I heard somewhere that the sheep population in NZ outnumbers the human population there 7 to 1???
20 to 1 is the conventional wisdom.

However it was 4.6 million people, and 29.5 million sheep in 2015 so 7 is about right. It was 22 to 1 in 1982 but sheep numbers have fallen to about 40% of what they were and population has increased by about 40% in the 35 years since.

That sounds like South Dakota, where there are, on average, 4.32 cows for every human.

They may be planning a revolt

Already did...

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/rapidcityjournal.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/9c/d9cb51c9-8bee-5eb1-9f20-0ee9fed92f38/d9cb51c9-8bee-5eb1-9f20-0ee9fed92f38.image.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on December 09, 2017, 04:45:08 AM
Quote from: vdeane on December 09, 2017, 01:55:15 AMI guess I don't get why the EU deciding to make it a rule would incentivise delaying it.
They lost initiative to spin it as their idea rather than 'you are being forced too', as it was always 'very soon', so marketing it would have been a nightmare. And, as it was always 'very soon' there was no reason not to milk more money out of customers and still keep them onboard as you could say "we'll offer it soon".

When all of a sudden, with the law being passed, networks are offering Max plans with free roaming in 53 countries/territories that include Australia, Canada, Mexico, New Zealand and the USA that they didn't offer before, it's clear the EU regulation only really affects cheap tariffs, which have to pay for it despite the people being unlikely to use it, as the higher tariffs have the regulation plus a lot more.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on December 09, 2017, 05:30:13 AM
The problem I had with my example from the cross-border phone network pickups is when I would get close to the Canadian border near Grand Portage, MN it meant my phone clock would jump to Eastern time and sometimes it would be stubborn about reverting to Central. Hell, for a time I remember if I got cell service back in Grand Marais (35 miles from the border) and subsequently re-entered a dead spot, of which there are many in Cook County that it would go *back* to Eastern. I didn't have any issues ultimately but I was concerned about getting screwed up on days where I did have a specific time to be doing something.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Desert Man on December 18, 2017, 02:48:46 AM
Los Angeles County is known as "100 cities in search of one" - Los Angeles. Actually 88 (or 89?) are incorporated municipalities. 5 of them are really small and relatively not fully residential. The cities of Industry (200 residents), as well Vernon (111 residents) near downtown L.A. are examples; and the private gated residential one square mile cities of Bradbury (1,000), Hidden Hills (1,850), and Rolling Hills (1,860). And the suburban cities of Bell, Bell Gardens, Cudahy, Huntington park and Maywood are tiny (around a square mile) but with very high population density.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 24, 2017, 10:05:19 PM
The Thomas fire in Ventura County its amazing to think that the fire size is approximately the same size as Los Angeles City Proper.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 26, 2017, 05:54:25 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_San_Francisco,_California

South San Francisco, CA northern border does not touch the San Francisco city border but instead touches Daly City, CA border.

Also South San Francisco, CA is in San Mateo County, Plus San Francisco International Airport is in the South San Francisco/ San Bruno Area.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on December 27, 2017, 08:52:25 AM
Not the oddest of the odd, but, for some reason, I was taken off guard by the fact that Helsinki is further north than Juneau.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2017, 09:42:03 AM
California 41 between Stratford and Kettleman City would have been under the waters of Tulare Lake a century ago.  Most people today think the area is a desert or was always lush farm land.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on December 27, 2017, 09:47:46 AM
Even though I know geography ( as most if not all of us on here) I am still surprised how far north Europe is compared to the US.. New York is the same latitude as Spain and Italy.. the UK is there same latitude as Labrador

Z981

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on December 27, 2017, 11:57:28 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 27, 2017, 09:47:46 AM
Even though I know geography ( as most if not all of us on here) I am still surprised how far north Europe is...... the UK is there same latitude as Labrador
Z981

You'll find Palm Trees growing along the south coast of England.....but certainly not in Labrador!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 27, 2017, 12:42:51 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 26, 2017, 05:54:25 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_San_Francisco,_California

South San Francisco, CA northern border does not touch the San Francisco city border but instead touches Daly City, CA border.

I think East Chicago doesn't border Chicago, either.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on December 27, 2017, 01:06:59 PM
South Weber, UT is not in Weber County as the name suggests, but rather in Davis County. It used to be in Weber County, but the county line was moved north to the Weber River early on.

Not sure if this has been posted or not, but Bernalillo NM is not in Bernalillo County, but is actually the county seat of Sandoval Co.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on December 27, 2017, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: roadguy2 on December 27, 2017, 01:06:59 PM
South Weber, UT is not in Weber County as the name suggests, but rather in Davis County. It used to be in Weber County, but the county line was moved north to the Weber River early on.

Not sure if this has been posted or not, but Bernalillo NM is not in Bernalillo County, but is actually the county seat of Sandoval Co.
On a similar note, Hamilton, OH isn't in Hamilton County, OH.

Also, Cherokee, AL is on the opposite side of the state from Cherokee County, AL.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on December 27, 2017, 01:16:35 PM
Seminole FL is not in Seminole County.  Jackson County FL is almost 200 miles from Jacksonville.

This is not that uncommon

Z981

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Brandon on December 27, 2017, 01:20:27 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 26, 2017, 05:54:25 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_San_Francisco,_California

South San Francisco, CA northern border does not touch the San Francisco city border but instead touches Daly City, CA border.

I fail to see the strangeness.  West Chicago and North Chicago don't touch Chicago either.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ET21 on December 27, 2017, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2017, 01:20:27 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 26, 2017, 05:54:25 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_San_Francisco,_California

South San Francisco, CA northern border does not touch the San Francisco city border but instead touches Daly City, CA border.

I fail to see the strangeness.  West Chicago and North Chicago don't touch Chicago either.

Or East Chicago, IN. Just separated by a skinny section of Hammond IN
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2017, 02:33:53 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 27, 2017, 01:16:35 PM
Seminole FL is not in Seminole County.  Jackson County FL is almost 200 miles from Jacksonville.

This is not that uncommon

Z981

Hell, there is a town in California called San Andreas which is up in the Sierras well to the east of the San Andreas Fault. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on December 27, 2017, 03:00:24 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 27, 2017, 01:16:35 PM
Seminole FL is not in Seminole County.  Jackson County FL is almost 200 miles from Jacksonville.

This is not that uncommon

Z981



I probably mentioned elsewhere that Gloucester City, NJ and Gloucester Twp, NJ are both in Camden County.  Both touch the border of Gloucester County.  But Gloucester City and Gloucester Twp don't touch each other. 

And while Gloucester City maintains a strong identity of itself, Gloucester Twp is rarely called by its township name.  It's usually known by its unincorporated communities.  And then in one oddity, the area of the town where the AC Expressway meets Cross Keys Road (Exit 41) is often referred to as Washington Twp...which officially has nothing to do with that area because it's a neighboring town in Gloucester County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on December 27, 2017, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on December 27, 2017, 03:00:24 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 27, 2017, 01:16:35 PM
Seminole FL is not in Seminole County.  Jackson County FL is almost 200 miles from Jacksonville.

This is not that uncommon

Z981



I probably mentioned elsewhere that Gloucester City, NJ and Gloucester Twp, NJ are both in Camden County.  Both touch the border of Gloucester County.  But Gloucester City and Gloucester Twp don't touch each other. 

And while Gloucester City maintains a strong identity of itself, Gloucester Twp is rarely called by its township name.  It's usually known by its unincorporated communities.  And then in one oddity, the area of the town where the AC Expressway meets Cross Keys Road (Exit 41) is often referred to as Washington Twp...which officially has nothing to do with that area because it's a neighboring town in Gloucester County.
Originally Gloucester County included Camden and Atlantic Counties.. 

Was Gloucester City the original county seat?

Z981

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 27, 2017, 03:16:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2017, 02:33:53 PM
Hell, there is a town in California called San Andreas which is up in the Sierras well to the east of the San Andreas Fault. 

That really puzzled me when I found it.

IIRC South Waverly PA is Northwest of Waverly PA... but just South of Waverly NY.

This also happens in my country. For example, Pozuelo de Alarcon, a suburb of Madrid, is nowhere near Alarcon, in Cuenca province about halfway between Madrid and Valencia. In fact I feel it should have been named Pozuelo de Alcorcon, as Alcorcon is another suburb of Madrid.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 27, 2017, 03:37:05 PM
Texas County is in Oklahoma. Let's stop with these.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 27, 2017, 03:55:10 PM
Nevada County is in California and not in the State of Nevada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on December 27, 2017, 03:57:12 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 27, 2017, 03:55:10 PM
Nevada County is in California and not in the State of Nevada.

This is way too common. In addition to the earlier examples, there are a whole bunch of counties called Washington County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 27, 2017, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2017, 01:20:27 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 26, 2017, 05:54:25 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_San_Francisco,_California

South San Francisco, CA northern border does not touch the San Francisco city border but instead touches Daly City, CA border.

I fail to see the strangeness.  West Chicago and North Chicago don't touch Chicago either.

True also West Sacramento and Sacramento are in different counties. Like West Sacramento is in Yolo County and Sacramento is in Sacramento County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on December 27, 2017, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 27, 2017, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2017, 01:20:27 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 26, 2017, 05:54:25 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_San_Francisco,_California

South San Francisco, CA northern border does not touch the San Francisco city border but instead touches Daly City, CA border.

I fail to see the strangeness.  West Chicago and North Chicago don't touch Chicago either.

True also West Sacramento and Sacramento are in different counties. Like West Sacramento is in Yolo County and Sacramento is in Sacramento County.

Why does that matter? West New York, East St. Louis, and West Memphis are in different states from their namesake cities.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Brandon on December 27, 2017, 04:04:27 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 27, 2017, 03:58:17 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 27, 2017, 01:20:27 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 26, 2017, 05:54:25 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_San_Francisco,_California

South San Francisco, CA northern border does not touch the San Francisco city border but instead touches Daly City, CA border.

I fail to see the strangeness.  West Chicago and North Chicago don't touch Chicago either.

True also West Sacramento and Sacramento are in different counties. Like West Sacramento is in Yolo County and Sacramento is in Sacramento County.

Again, the strangeness escapes me.  Chicago is in Cook County, IL; West Chicago in DuPage County; North Chicago in Lake County, IL; and for added trivia, East Chicago is in Lake County, IN.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 27, 2017, 04:50:45 PM
Quote from: bing101 on December 27, 2017, 03:55:10 PM
Nevada County is in California and not in the State of Nevada.

But it is in the Sierra Nevada Range which makes it more sensible.  The county was also formed back in 1851 before Nevada was a state.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on December 27, 2017, 05:07:55 PM
Quote from: jwolfer on December 27, 2017, 09:47:46 AM
Even though I know geography ( as most if not all of us on here) I am still surprised how far north Europe is compared to the US.. New York is the same latitude as Spain and Italy.. the UK is there same latitude as Labrador

Z981

Yeah. San Francisco and Washington are roughly the same latitude as Lisbon. To get as far south as LA or San Diego, you need to get into Africa. To get as far south as Miami or San Juan, you have to get seriously into Africa (like Aswan and Timbuktu, respectively)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 27, 2017, 05:41:41 PM
Quote from: michravera on December 27, 2017, 05:07:55 PM
Yeah. San Francisco and Washington are roughly the same latitude as Lisbon. To get as far south as LA or San Diego, you need to get into Africa. To get as far south as Miami or San Juan, you have to get seriously into Africa (like Aswan and Timbuktu, respectively)

Yup. Orlando is at the same latitude as the Canary Islands. Yet, the closest point of the USA to them is still Hamlin ME (already mentioned by me).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GenExpwy on December 28, 2017, 01:26:54 AM
Similar: the town of Rochester, New York is just south of the Catskills in Ulster County.

Years ago, I saw a foreclosure notice in the [city of] Rochester Democrat & Chronicle that clearly referred to a property in the town of Rochester, a couple hundred miles away.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on December 30, 2017, 04:42:30 PM
Los Angeles is closer to London than Tokyo.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 06:01:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 30, 2017, 04:42:30 PM
Los Angeles is closer to London than Tokyo.
Or, spinning it a bit around, Los Angeles is closer to Tokyo than London.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on December 30, 2017, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 06:01:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 30, 2017, 04:42:30 PM
Los Angeles is closer to London than Tokyo.
Or, spinning it a bit around, Los Angeles is closer to Tokyo than London.

Those can't both be true.

Unless you mean "Los Angeles is closer to London than Tokyo is" (and same for the second sentence), which doesn't defy conventional wisdom.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 06:13:48 PM
Quote from: 1 on December 30, 2017, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 06:01:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 30, 2017, 04:42:30 PM
Los Angeles is closer to London than Tokyo.
Or, spinning it a bit around, Los Angeles is closer to Tokyo than London.

Those can't both be true.

Unless you mean "Los Angeles is closer to London than Tokyo is" (and same for the second sentence), which doesn't defy conventional wisdom.
Yes, that is what I tried to say. Throwing in some numbers for apology:
DIstance between Los Angeles and London is 5,456 miles, almost the same as Los Angeles to Tokyo - 5,452 mi. LOndon to Tokyo is bigger than those two - 5,975 miles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Jordanes on December 30, 2017, 07:21:22 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 21, 2016, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Speaking of ZIP codes, Newton Falls, OH has the only ZIP code in which all the numbers are the same -- 44444.

In line with that, the only postcode in Spain that all five numbers are the same digits belongs to Castejon de Monegros, Huesca province, Aragon: 22222. Incidentally, 44444 would be in Teruel province in the same region.

IIRC, General Electric in Schenectady NY has the best ZIP code: 12345.

Virginia Beach has a 23456
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on December 30, 2017, 07:39:17 PM
Quote from: Jordanes on December 30, 2017, 07:21:22 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 21, 2016, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Speaking of ZIP codes, Newton Falls, OH has the only ZIP code in which all the numbers are the same -- 44444.

In line with that, the only postcode in Spain that all five numbers are the same digits belongs to Castejon de Monegros, Huesca province, Aragon: 22222. Incidentally, 44444 would be in Teruel province in the same region.

IIRC, General Electric in Schenectady NY has the best ZIP code: 12345.

Virginia Beach has a 23456

Newton Falls, OH (Near Youngstown) is the only ZIP with the same five numbers -- 44444
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on December 30, 2017, 07:46:40 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 30, 2017, 07:39:17 PM
Quote from: Jordanes on December 30, 2017, 07:21:22 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 21, 2016, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Speaking of ZIP codes, Newton Falls, OH has the only ZIP code in which all the numbers are the same -- 44444.

In line with that, the only postcode in Spain that all five numbers are the same digits belongs to Castejon de Monegros, Huesca province, Aragon: 22222. Incidentally, 44444 would be in Teruel province in the same region.

IIRC, General Electric in Schenectady NY has the best ZIP code: 12345.

Virginia Beach has a 23456

Newton Falls, OH (Near Youngstown) is the only ZIP with the same five numbers -- 44444

You already said that inside what you quoted.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: Jordanes on December 30, 2017, 07:21:22 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 21, 2016, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Speaking of ZIP codes, Newton Falls, OH has the only ZIP code in which all the numbers are the same -- 44444.

In line with that, the only postcode in Spain that all five numbers are the same digits belongs to Castejon de Monegros, Huesca province, Aragon: 22222. Incidentally, 44444 would be in Teruel province in the same region.

IIRC, General Electric in Schenectady NY has the best ZIP code: 12345.

Virginia Beach has a 23456
34567 unused (prefix 345 not assigned)
Scottown, OH 45678
56789 unused, but 567 prefix is used in Thief River Falls MN area, so maybe someday...
67890 unused, prefix 678 is used in KS
78910 unused, although 78940 and 78950 exist in TX
01234 unused, Hinsdale MA is 01235
54321 unused, 54311 exists in MI

My feeling is that USPS is not assigning those "nice" numbers.

Some other interesting combinations:
31415 is in Savannah GA
65536 is Lebanon MO,  Leasburg MO is 65535
32768 is Plymouth FL
16384 not assigned
27182 and 27183 not assigned

ok, I  need to stop...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 7/8 on December 31, 2017, 10:56:03 AM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: Jordanes on December 30, 2017, 07:21:22 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 21, 2016, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Speaking of ZIP codes, Newton Falls, OH has the only ZIP code in which all the numbers are the same -- 44444.

In line with that, the only postcode in Spain that all five numbers are the same digits belongs to Castejon de Monegros, Huesca province, Aragon: 22222. Incidentally, 44444 would be in Teruel province in the same region.

IIRC, General Electric in Schenectady NY has the best ZIP code: 12345.

Virginia Beach has a 23456
34567 unused (prefix 345 not assigned)
Scottown, OH 45678
56789 unused, but 567 prefix is used in Thief River Falls MN area, so maybe someday...
67890 unused, prefix 678 is used in KS
78910 unused, although 78940 and 78950 exist in TX
01234 unused, Hinsdale MA is 01235
54321 unused, 54311 exists in MI

My feeling is that USPS is not assigning those "nice" numbers.

Some other interesting combinations:
31415 is in Savannah GA
65536 is Lebanon MO,  Leasburg MO is 65535
32768 is Plymouth FL
16384 not assigned
27182 and 27183 not assigned

ok, I  need to stop...

Some good Canadian postal codes, taken from a reddit thread: (https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/5fug3p/best_postal_code_yet/)

H0H 0H0 - North Pole
V4G 1N4 - Delta, BC
S0H 0M0 - Brownlee, SK
P0T 2G0 - Murillo, ON
R0B 0T0 - Island Lake, MB
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on December 31, 2017, 04:54:15 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 06:13:48 PM
Quote from: 1 on December 30, 2017, 06:05:04 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 06:01:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 30, 2017, 04:42:30 PM
Los Angeles is closer to London than Tokyo.
Or, spinning it a bit around, Los Angeles is closer to Tokyo than London.

Those can't both be true.

Unless you mean "Los Angeles is closer to London than Tokyo is" (and same for the second sentence), which doesn't defy conventional wisdom.
Yes, that is what I tried to say. Throwing in some numbers for apology:
DIstance between Los Angeles and London is 5,456 miles, almost the same as Los Angeles to Tokyo - 5,452 mi. LOndon to Tokyo is bigger than those two - 5,975 miles.
The fact that they are almost the same always made me confused. The pacific ocean is really big.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 31, 2017, 06:41:42 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 07:58:12 PM
34567 unused (prefix 345 not assigned)
Scottown, OH 45678
56789 unused, but 567 prefix is used in Thief River Falls MN area, so maybe someday...
67890 unused, prefix 678 is used in KS
78910 unused, although 78940 and 78950 exist in TX
01234 unused, Hinsdale MA is 01235
54321 unused, 54311 exists in MI

My feeling is that USPS is not assigning those "nice" numbers.

Some other interesting combinations:
31415 is in Savannah GA
65536 is Lebanon MO,  Leasburg MO is 65535
32768 is Plymouth FL
16384 not assigned
27182 and 27183 not assigned

ok, I  need to stop...

We have also a 31415 in Spain, as well as a 31416, both in Northeastern Navarre. 27182 and 27183 are somewhere in Lugo province in Galicia. 16180 is unused, would belong to Cuenca province. No 12345 either, would be in Castellon province.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on December 31, 2017, 06:43:49 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 31, 2017, 06:41:42 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 07:58:12 PM
34567 unused (prefix 345 not assigned)
Scottown, OH 45678
56789 unused, but 567 prefix is used in Thief River Falls MN area, so maybe someday...
67890 unused, prefix 678 is used in KS
78910 unused, although 78940 and 78950 exist in TX
01234 unused, Hinsdale MA is 01235
54321 unused, 54311 exists in MI

My feeling is that USPS is not assigning those "nice" numbers.

Some other interesting combinations:
31415 is in Savannah GA
65536 is Lebanon MO,  Leasburg MO is 65535
32768 is Plymouth FL
16384 not assigned
27182 and 27183 not assigned

ok, I  need to stop...

We have also a 31415 in Spain, as well as a 31416, both in Northeastern Navarre. 27182 and 27183 are somewhere in Lugo province in Galicia. 16180 is unused, would belong to Cuenca province. No 12345 either, would be in Castellon province.

Another one (as far as I can tell) that exists in Spain but not the US: 40320 (which is 8!).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on January 01, 2018, 12:55:32 AM
I just got a Happy New Year greeting from my friend in Bogotá, Colombia and it reminded me...They are in Eastern Time zone like Jacksonville and NYC...the Pacific coast of South America is the same longitude as the east coast of North America.. because it's the Pacific coast I think of it being same longitude as Los Angeles

Z981

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on January 01, 2018, 01:00:32 AM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 07:58:12 PM

54321 unused, 54311 exists in MI

54311 actually assigned to Green Bay.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ColossalBlocks on January 11, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
Sorry for bumping the thread in advanced.

The Appalachian Mountains share some of the same longitude lines as the Sahara Desert.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dfilpus on January 11, 2018, 09:21:27 PM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on January 11, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
Sorry for bumping the thread in advanced.

The Appalachian Mountains share some of the same longitude lines as the Sahara Desert.
Say what? Latitude, maybe, but not longitude.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on January 12, 2018, 12:18:08 AM
Quote from: dfilpus on January 11, 2018, 09:21:27 PM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on January 11, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
Sorry for bumping the thread in advanced.

The Appalachian Mountains share some of the same longitude lines as the Sahara Desert.
Say what? Latitude, maybe, but not longitude.

Maybe he's counting going all the way around the North Pole and down the opposite side of the planet.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on January 12, 2018, 06:59:50 AM
Quote from: dfilpus on January 11, 2018, 09:21:27 PM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on January 11, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
The Appalachian Mountains share some of the same longitude lines as the Sahara Desert.
Say what? Latitude, maybe, but not longitude.

The northern most reaches of the Appalachians are the Long Range Mountains in Newfoundland....extending 400 km up the west coast. Highest peak is 2670 feet (814 m)

The International Appalachian Trail is to be extended here...beginning near the ferry terminal in Port-aux-Basques

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jJ9jbLYGRbg/Vr-NYUspKII/AAAAAAAAP68/T9Gn5LqikPE/s800-Ic42/Image010.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cotzCp5BtfA/VFUNsGPLJTI/AAAAAAAANLo/KqyU9NWprA4/s800/IMG_3788.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uGkMk3LIY2I/VFUOPiR3SiI/AAAAAAAANL0/isQoymgJBfU/s800/IMG_3789.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sIuPnj4jTq4/VFUPBC_3TxI/AAAAAAAANL8/1x6isBtSDQw/s800/IMG_3795.JPG)

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 12, 2018, 09:23:51 AM
Quote from: dfilpus on January 11, 2018, 09:21:27 PM
Quote from: ColossalBlocks on January 11, 2018, 09:10:26 PM
Sorry for bumping the thread in advanced.

The Appalachian Mountains share some of the same longitude lines as the Sahara Desert.
Say what? Latitude, maybe, but not longitude.

I don't see how either. Africa only reaches about 17°W, while the Northernmost reaches of the Appalachians are at 55°W. However, the Southern Appalachians are at the same latitude as Northern Sahara.
Quote from: ghYHZ on January 12, 2018, 06:59:50 AM
The International Appalachian Trail is to be extended here...beginning near the ferry terminal in Port-aux-Basques

And then to Greenland, Scotland, Scandinavia, and even Spain! There are two planned sections of the International Appalachian Trail in Spain, one in the Northwest (Leon-Santiago) and other in the West (Alcantara-Cordoba). Parts of the second section are already blazed AFAIK. Both sections are planned to be connected through Portugal. IIRC the IAT aims to connect all the remnants of the Central Pangean Mountains, of which the Appalachians were once part of. Anyway, I prefer to stick to the original Appalachian Trail (Mount Springer in GA to Mount Katahdin in ME). Thanks to all those thru-hikers who vlog their adventures I know lots of landmarks along the trail.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: abefroman329 on January 12, 2018, 02:43:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 20, 2017, 08:32:47 AMThe Mormons tried to come to the rescue by building a mall near Temple Square a few years back.  Not sure if the mall has been successful or is still being propped up.

If it's the mall I'm thinking of, it's really more of a "town center" concept and seems like the stores contained within are too upscale for it to be successful.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: abefroman329 on January 12, 2018, 04:03:10 PM
Quote from: tckma on August 07, 2017, 11:49:58 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on August 04, 2017, 02:31:51 PM
Is there a state where the changing course of rivers has resulted in funky state boundaries? I understand that states don't like losing land area so no one ever set the boundary as "the other side of the river" but there are some odd ones.

Some portions of New Hampshire are on the other side of the Connecticut River, ditto for the Salmon Falls River on the Maine side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kentucky_bend

Also, the state border of Delaware is officially designated as the New Jersey shoreline, as is the border of Maryland officially defined as the Virginia/West Virginia shoreline of the Potomac, unlike the border being in the center of the river as in many other such situations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jersey_v._Delaware
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_v._West_Virginia

The portion of the Potomac that flows through DC also belongs to DC.  Which is why, traveling west on I-66 from DC, you get a fair bit into VA before you see the "Welcome to Virginia" sign.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tckma on January 12, 2018, 05:20:45 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 30, 2017, 07:58:12 PM
Quote from: Jordanes on December 30, 2017, 07:21:22 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 21, 2016, 04:45:13 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on July 21, 2016, 01:45:27 PM
Speaking of ZIP codes, Newton Falls, OH has the only ZIP code in which all the numbers are the same -- 44444.

In line with that, the only postcode in Spain that all five numbers are the same digits belongs to Castejon de Monegros, Huesca province, Aragon: 22222. Incidentally, 44444 would be in Teruel province in the same region.

IIRC, General Electric in Schenectady NY has the best ZIP code: 12345.

Speaking of ZIP codes again, that 12345 ZIP is exclusively the General Electric facilities in Schenectady, formerly the company's largest and most occupied campus, hence it got assigned that "nice" ZIP.  But that ZIP code means A LOT of mail destined for Santa Claus ends up there.

Canada's solution was to assign a unique postal code for Santa's mail: H0H 0H0.  I believe that ends up somewhere in the Toronto area if you follow Canada's postal code region scheme.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MikeTheActuary on January 12, 2018, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: tckma on January 12, 2018, 05:20:45 PMCanada's solution was to assign a unique postal code for Santa's mail: H0H 0H0.  I believe that ends up somewhere in the Toronto area if you follow Canada's postal code region scheme.

Montréal, actually.

The first H designates metro Montréal.

A zero in the second position of any forward sortation area prefix indicates a rural area (although there are exceptions)...and metro Montréal doesn't have any rural areas.

The second H has no particular meaning, aside from having been chosen for the obvious reason.  :)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on January 13, 2018, 01:45:50 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on January 12, 2018, 02:43:48 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 20, 2017, 08:32:47 AMThe Mormons tried to come to the rescue by building a mall near Temple Square a few years back.  Not sure if the mall has been successful or is still being propped up.

If it's the mall I'm thinking of, it's really more of a "town center" concept and seems like the stores contained within are too upscale for it to be successful.

That’s the City Creek Mall, which they built in the two blocks south of Temple Square after tearing down the old Crossroads and ZCMI malls. The stores in City Creek are more upscale, but the mall has definitely been a success, and has helped make downtown a better place overall. In fact, the opening of City Creek was the biggest reason for the decline of the Gateway mall. About the only drawback for City Creek is that, since it’s owned by the Mormon Church, it’s closed on Sunday.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 13, 2018, 12:51:49 PM
Like I said -- and as a Mormon myself -- the question for me is it the mall has been a true profitable success, or if the Church is continuing to subsidize the development to keep Downtown from economic erosion.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on January 13, 2018, 09:38:24 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 13, 2018, 12:51:49 PM
Like I said -- and as a Mormon myself -- the question for me is it the mall has been a true profitable success, or if the Church is continuing to subsidize the development to keep Downtown from economic erosion.

My wife and I visited downtown SLC last summer.  Downtown seemed strong with the mall, the Temple area, the Capitol at the top of the hill, and the Vivint Arena to the west.  We went on a Saturday, so I don't know how busy the downtown area is during the other 6 days, but it seems like the Mormon Church is a worldwide pilgrimage for their followers.

And it's not like the mall is strictly a "mall" as there are business offices and apartments on the upper floors of many of the buildings which comprise of the mall, no?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 13, 2018, 11:56:10 PM
The draw of Temple Square and associated Church sites (Joseph Smith Memorial Building, Church History Museum, Family History Library, etc.) is still something of a constant, since it was there prior to the failure of the ZCMI mall and the obvious decline of the surrounding downtown area.  There's little question the Church's investment has been beneficial.  The question is exactly how the new shiny facade is upkept now.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 18, 2018, 08:15:13 AM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on January 12, 2018, 06:09:17 PM
Quote from: tckma on January 12, 2018, 05:20:45 PMCanada's solution was to assign a unique postal code for Santa's mail: H0H 0H0.  I believe that ends up somewhere in the Toronto area if you follow Canada's postal code region scheme.

Montréal, actually.

The first H designates metro Montréal.

A zero in the second position of any forward sortation area prefix indicates a rural area (although there are exceptions)...and metro Montréal doesn't have any rural areas.

The second H has no particular meaning, aside from having been chosen for the obvious reason.  :)
Wiki has a bit more details:
QuoteH is used to designate Montreal, the second-largest city in Canada. As such, the H0- prefix is almost completely empty. H0M, assigned to the international Akwesasne tribal reserve on the Canada-US border, is the only other H0- postal code in active use.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tckma on January 18, 2018, 11:40:34 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)

Until June 2000 (when I moved to Massachusetts), I thought Cape Cod was a town, and I was just too blind to find it on a map.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 18, 2018, 12:54:32 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)

Meanwhile, Capetown in South Africa is located on Cape Peninsular.
And I have hard time describing Cape Cod as surrounded on three sides by water, more like water is on 4 or 5 sides of that... thing...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 19, 2018, 04:52:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)
I have never heard someone call Cape Cod a peninsula.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Hurricane Rex on January 20, 2018, 01:46:21 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 19, 2018, 04:52:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)
I have never heard someone call Cape Cod a peninsula.
Calling cape cod a peninsula got me a wrong answer in the geography bee.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 20, 2018, 10:33:57 AM
Quote from: Hurricane Rex on January 20, 2018, 01:46:21 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 19, 2018, 04:52:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)
I have never heard someone call Cape Cod a peninsula.
Calling cape cod a peninsula got me a wrong answer in the geography bee.

What was the correct answer?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SignGeek101 on January 20, 2018, 11:49:06 PM
Canada's southernmost land border (i.e. Middle Island on Lake Erie) is farther south than Rome, downtown Chicago, and the California-Oregon border.

EDIT: Added bold to clarify
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on January 21, 2018, 07:16:39 AM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on January 20, 2018, 11:49:06 PM
Canada's southernmost land border is farther south than Rome, downtown Chicago, and the California-Oregon border.
I don't think you are saying what you mean to say there, since Canada's only land borders are with Alaska, Washington to Minnesota, and New York to Maine.

Canada's southernmost mainland, Point Pelee, is farther south than the California-Oregon border, and about equal with Rome.  It's about a tenth of a degree north of downtown Chicago.  If you include Pelee Island and the smaller Middle Island in Lake Erie, then your claims are true.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 21, 2018, 07:53:27 AM
Quote from: GaryV on January 21, 2018, 07:16:39 AM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on January 20, 2018, 11:49:06 PM
Canada's southernmost land border is farther south than Rome, downtown Chicago, and the California-Oregon border.
I don't think you are saying what you mean to say there, since Canada's only land borders are with Alaska, Washington to Minnesota, and New York to Maine.

Canada's southernmost mainland, Point Pelee, is farther south than the California-Oregon border, and about equal with Rome.  It's about a tenth of a degree north of downtown Chicago.  If you include Pelee Island and the smaller Middle Island in Lake Erie, then your claims are true.



Yes, and it seems the southernmost border–land or otherwise–also holds true. In this case, it's a maritime border in Lake Erie.

(Speaking of Lake Erie, a rough glance suggests that its western end is closer to Chicago than to Buffalo.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SignGeek101 on January 21, 2018, 07:49:00 PM
Quote from: GaryV on January 21, 2018, 07:16:39 AM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on January 20, 2018, 11:49:06 PM
Canada's southernmost land border is farther south than Rome, downtown Chicago, and the California-Oregon border.
I don't think you are saying what you mean to say there, since Canada's only land borders are with Alaska, Washington to Minnesota, and New York to Maine.

Canada's southernmost mainland, Point Pelee, is farther south than the California-Oregon border, and about equal with Rome.  It's about a tenth of a degree north of downtown Chicago.  If you include Pelee Island and the smaller Middle Island in Lake Erie, then your claims are true.

I meant Middle Island. I should have clarified that in my original post. By "land border" I meant Middle Island, and not the mainland. I didn't think about that in my original post. I just didn't want people to think that I meant the "actual southern border" which, of course is in Lake Erie, and not on any land.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2018, 07:53:09 PM
Does the border go through Middle Island? It doesn't seem to on Google Maps, but sometimes I've noticed that the borders are a little off? Or did you mean southernmost point of land?

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: oscar on January 21, 2018, 08:21:21 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 21, 2018, 07:53:09 PM
Does the border go through Middle Island? It doesn't seem to on Google Maps, but sometimes I've noticed that the borders are a little off? Or did you mean southernmost point of land?

He must've meant the latter. His reference to "land border" was confusing, since the only border near Middle Island is a water border.

Middle Island is an uninhabited nature preserve, off-limits to visitors. Pelee Island residents told me that local boaters approaching the island are intercepted by the authorities and ordered to turn away. So visitors have to settle for the southern tip of Pelee Island (which I visited) as the southernmost land in Canada open to the general public.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on January 22, 2018, 09:04:51 AM
I may have posted this, but I know that the town of Kaskaskia, IL is on the western side of the Mississippi river from the rest of Illinois.  What I didn't know is that there's a small portion of IL by Cairo that's south of the Mississippi river from the rest of IL.  In looking at the border, it's obvious that this bit of Illinois is not on the opposite side of the river because of changes in the river's course, as the border is a straight line.  Anybody know what's up with this bit of Illinois?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mrsman on January 24, 2018, 12:42:51 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on January 22, 2018, 09:04:51 AM
I may have posted this, but I know that the town of Kaskaskia, IL is on the western side of the Mississippi river from the rest of Illinois.  What I didn't know is that there's a small portion of IL by Cairo that's south of the Mississippi river from the rest of IL.  In looking at the border, it's obvious that this bit of Illinois is not on the opposite side of the river because of changes in the river's course, as the border is a straight line.  Anybody know what's up with this bit of Illinois?

Official state boundaries defined as being the river where they ran 100-200 years ago.  But rivers do change their course over time, but the state boundary is fixed.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on January 24, 2018, 12:48:25 AM
Quote from: mrsman on January 24, 2018, 12:42:51 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on January 22, 2018, 09:04:51 AM
I may have posted this, but I know that the town of Kaskaskia, IL is on the western side of the Mississippi river from the rest of Illinois.  What I didn't know is that there's a small portion of IL by Cairo that's south of the Mississippi river from the rest of IL.  In looking at the border, it's obvious that this bit of Illinois is not on the opposite side of the river because of changes in the river's course, as the border is a straight line.  Anybody know what's up with this bit of Illinois?

Official state boundaries defined as being the river where they ran 100-200 years ago.  But rivers do change their course over time, but the state boundary is fixed.

Except the state border that Inkyatari is referring to probably wasn't ever part of the river's course. It's northwest of Cairo, just south of Cache IL.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on January 24, 2018, 09:01:01 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on January 24, 2018, 12:48:25 AM
Quote from: mrsman on January 24, 2018, 12:42:51 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on January 22, 2018, 09:04:51 AM
I may have posted this, but I know that the town of Kaskaskia, IL is on the western side of the Mississippi river from the rest of Illinois.  What I didn't know is that there's a small portion of IL by Cairo that's south of the Mississippi river from the rest of IL.  In looking at the border, it's obvious that this bit of Illinois is not on the opposite side of the river because of changes in the river's course, as the border is a straight line.  Anybody know what's up with this bit of Illinois?

Official state boundaries defined as being the river where they ran 100-200 years ago.  But rivers do change their course over time, but the state boundary is fixed.

Except the state border that Inkyatari is referring to probably wasn't ever part of the river's course. It's northwest of Cairo, just south of Cache IL.

Exactly.  This particular border doesn't appear to be on a former course of the Mississippi.  It is indeed a straight-er line. To wit:

https://goo.gl/maps/tPcm975L8qG2
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MikeTheActuary on January 24, 2018, 09:04:34 AM
Quote from: roadguy2 on January 24, 2018, 12:48:25 AM
Quote from: mrsman on January 24, 2018, 12:42:51 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on January 22, 2018, 09:04:51 AM
I may have posted this, but I know that the town of Kaskaskia, IL is on the western side of the Mississippi river from the rest of Illinois.  What I didn't know is that there's a small portion of IL by Cairo that's south of the Mississippi river from the rest of IL.  In looking at the border, it's obvious that this bit of Illinois is not on the opposite side of the river because of changes in the river's course, as the border is a straight line.  Anybody know what's up with this bit of Illinois?

Official state boundaries defined as being the river where they ran 100-200 years ago.  But rivers do change their course over time, but the state boundary is fixed.

Except the state border that Inkyatari is referring to probably wasn't ever part of the river's course. It's northwest of Cairo, just south of Cache IL.

I don't have an explanation for the straightness of the border line, but the oxymoronic name of that patch of land is Missouri Sister Island.

https://www.semissourian.com/blogs/pavementends/entry/36305
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on January 24, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
Cario IL is closer to Texas than it is to Wisconsin.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on January 24, 2018, 08:51:27 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on January 24, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
Cario IL is closer to Texas than it is to Wisconsin.

That is interesting
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on January 25, 2018, 12:27:15 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on January 24, 2018, 08:51:27 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on January 24, 2018, 06:25:33 PM
Cario IL is closer to Texas than it is to Wisconsin.

That is interesting
Guessing it's closer to Louisiana too as the crow flies.

ADD: It'll be a lot closer to Texas if MODOT would get off its duff.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 25, 2018, 04:24:46 PM
It is possible to go from East of the Mississippi to West of the Mississippi and vice-versa without crossing the Mississippi river at all! Which leads to a question: What is East and what is West of the Mississippi North of Bemidji MN? This single fact resulted in the Northwest Angle.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jmd41280 on January 25, 2018, 08:39:03 PM
Several examples of states that do not have a common border, but are geographically very close to each other...

The northern tip of Virginia is less than 18 miles from the Pennsylvania border
Maryland and New Jersey come within 12 miles of each other at their closest points
The western tip of Connecticut is only 11 miles from New Jersey
Massachusetts and Maine come within 16 miles of each other at their closest points
The easternmost point of Vermont is within 20 miles of the Maine border
Illinois and Tennessee come within 35 miles of each other
The northernmost border of Texas comes within 35 miles of Colorado and Kansas
The NW corner of Arkansas is 34.5 miles from the SE corner of Kansas
Kentucky and Arkansas come within 30 miles of each other at their closest points




Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on January 25, 2018, 11:47:27 PM
The narrowest part of the Maryland panhandle which separates PA and WV (Near Hancock, MD) is just shy of 2 miles wide.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bm7 on January 26, 2018, 10:31:10 AM
All of mainland Finland is north of the southernmost point of Greenland.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on January 26, 2018, 10:30:42 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 25, 2018, 08:39:03 PM
Several examples of states that do not have a common border, but are geographically very close to each other...

The northern tip of Virginia is less than 18 miles from the Pennsylvania border
Maryland and New Jersey come within 12 miles of each other at their closest points
The western tip of Connecticut is only 11 miles from New Jersey
Massachusetts and Maine come within 16 miles of each other at their closest points
The easternmost point of Vermont is within 20 miles of the Maine border
Illinois and Tennessee come within 35 miles of each other
The northernmost border of Texas comes within 35 miles of Colorado and Kansas
The NW corner of Arkansas is 34.5 miles from the SE corner of Kansas
Kentucky and Arkansas come within 30 miles of each other at their closest points
Similarly, Oklahoma and Louisiana are separated by only about 40 miles at a diagonal across the NE corner of Texas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on January 27, 2018, 09:24:54 AM
How close is the northeast tip of Ohio on Lake Erie to that of far southwestern New York state? (i.e. the I-90 region)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: renegade on January 27, 2018, 11:11:08 AM
About 45 miles, give or take.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ftballfan on January 28, 2018, 10:40:55 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on January 26, 2018, 10:30:42 PM
Quote from: jmd41280 on January 25, 2018, 08:39:03 PM
Several examples of states that do not have a common border, but are geographically very close to each other...

The northern tip of Virginia is less than 18 miles from the Pennsylvania border
Maryland and New Jersey come within 12 miles of each other at their closest points
The western tip of Connecticut is only 11 miles from New Jersey
Massachusetts and Maine come within 16 miles of each other at their closest points
The easternmost point of Vermont is within 20 miles of the Maine border
Illinois and Tennessee come within 35 miles of each other
The northernmost border of Texas comes within 35 miles of Colorado and Kansas
The NW corner of Arkansas is 34.5 miles from the SE corner of Kansas
Kentucky and Arkansas come within 30 miles of each other at their closest points
Similarly, Oklahoma and Louisiana are separated by only about 40 miles at a diagonal across the NE corner of Texas.
Fun fact: The far southeastern portion of Oklahoma gets TV stations from Louisiana.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on January 29, 2018, 12:11:24 AM
87% of Monroe County is on mainland Florida but 99% of the population is on the remaining 13% of land in the Keys.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on January 29, 2018, 08:57:58 AM
@FTBALLFAN: Yep! McCurtain County in far southeastern Oklahoma is at the edge of the Shreveport-Texarkana DMA (Designated Market Area).

http://files.ktbs.com/ktbsadvertising/KTBS-CoverageMAP.pdf
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on January 29, 2018, 08:40:31 PM
From November to March, both Washington (WA) and Western Australia (WA) set their clocks eight hours away from Greenwhich Mean Time, but in opposite directions. The U.S. West Coast uses UTC-08 during the winter, while Western Australia uses UTC+08 all year. UTC+08 is also the most populous time zone, with 1.7 billion people, and encompasses all of China from the Afghan border (where it switches from UTC+4.5) to the Russian border (at UTC+10).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on January 29, 2018, 10:46:28 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 29, 2018, 08:40:31 PM
UTC+08 is also the most populous time zone, with 1.7 billion people, and encompasses all of China from the Afghan border (where it switches from UTC+4.5) to the Russian border (at UTC+10).

What really caught my eye was the fact that crossing into a new time zone at one of the Chinese borders is an instant change of anywhere from 2 to 3-1/2 hours!! I can't fathom a change of more than an hour at a time zone boundary. 

Anyhoo, good oddity to share!!!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on January 30, 2018, 06:44:20 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on January 29, 2018, 10:46:28 PMWhat really caught my eye was the fact that crossing into a new time zone at one of the Chinese borders is an instant change of anywhere from 2 to 3-1/2 hours!! I can't fathom a change of more than an hour at a time zone boundary.
I believe the only such change inside a country is between Western Australia (+8) and South Australia/Northern Territories (+9:30 with SA moving to +10:30 in summer). Western Australia is sparsely populated away from Perth, and the middle of Australia doesn't have much, so fixing time zones to Perth, Adelaide and Darwin makes sense.

There's a few small villages near the WA/SA border and they unofficially, but universally, use +8.45 (no DST) - it's only about 200 people stretching 300 miles or so along a highway (but mostly in about 20 miles near the border), but they are 200 miles from the nearest places either way, so they have more in common with each other than Perth time or Adelaide time and it makes little sense to keep changing your clock an hour and a half (if not two and a half hours) to go 50 miles to some 'near' neighbours. Better to change your clocks 45 minutes (or 1:45 if its summer and you are heading east) only if you are going on a roughly four hour journey to (not to and from, just one-way) one of the 'big' towns, or further.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on February 04, 2018, 06:02:36 PM
While it is generally known that US States are larger than some European countries, I was surprised Spain is larger than all but two states (AK and TX). I was even more surprised to find out my province (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Province_of_Huesca) is larger than three states! (CT, DE and RI, it's even larger than the later two combined)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on February 05, 2018, 08:56:52 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on February 04, 2018, 06:02:36 PM
While it is generally known that US States are larger than some European countries, I was surprised Spain is larger than all but two states (AK and TX). I was even more surprised to find out my province (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Province_of_Huesca) is larger than three states! (CT, DE and RI, it's even larger than the later two combined)

Your province is barely larger than my metropolitan area (which is relatively compact for a top-20 metro area).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on February 13, 2018, 10:28:50 PM
El Paso, Texas is further west than Vail, Colorado.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on February 13, 2018, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 13, 2018, 10:28:50 PM
El Paso, Texas is further west than Vail, Colorado.

This is true insofar that the westernmost point of El Paso is west of the westernmost point of Vail. But it's also true that the easternmost point of El Paso is east of the easternmost point of Vail. For all intents and purposes, then, the cities lie at the same longitude, which is, to be fair, not what I would have expected.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on February 14, 2018, 01:10:01 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangdong

Guangdong province has more people than UK, France combined. But Guangdong is as big as Mexico and Japan in terms of population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TXtoNJ on February 14, 2018, 10:35:49 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 13, 2018, 11:45:40 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 13, 2018, 10:28:50 PM
El Paso, Texas is further west than Vail, Colorado.

This is true insofar that the westernmost point of El Paso is west of the westernmost point of Vail. But it's also true that the easternmost point of El Paso is east of the easternmost point of Vail. For all intents and purposes, then, the cities lie at the same longitude, which is, to be fair, not what I would have expected.

There are a lot of things about that part of the West that are surprising. For one, it seems strange to me that Albuquerque is closer to Los Angeles than it is to Houston.

Another fun one - the Upper Mississippi is hydrologically a tributary of the Ohio River. The Allegheny-Ohio-Lower Mississippi are together the main stream of the Mississippi River system. On average, the Ohio has a larger flow at Cairo, and can be almost twice as much at times of the year.

The reason we consider the Upper and Lower Mississippi to be one river goes back to the colonial days, particularly after the French and Indian War, where the streams represented a convenient political frontier between Spanish claims in the West and British claims in the East. Furthermore, the Ohio represented another convenient barrier between cold continental climates to the north that lent themselves to small farming establishments, and hot subtropical climates in the south that were more efficiently exploited through plantation slavery.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on February 14, 2018, 12:39:14 PM
Then we should rename the Ohio the Mississippi, the Mississippi between St. Louis and Cairo IL the Missouri, and the Mississippi upstream of St. Louis something else.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Takumi on February 14, 2018, 02:49:46 PM
Or, you know, not.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on February 14, 2018, 05:10:27 PM
Quote from: Takumi on February 14, 2018, 02:49:46 PM
Or, you know, not.
Actually this can become a hot topic. Imagine that instead of being a small town  on barely known tributary of great river you now have a major city on one of biggest rivers in the world - all at a cost of sorting out some old geographical mistakes and changing a few labels on a map?
It can mean a huge economic boost for the area, a new era for entire region!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on February 14, 2018, 05:12:03 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2018, 05:10:27 PM
Quote from: Takumi on February 14, 2018, 02:49:46 PM
Or, you know, not.
Actually this can become a hot topic. Imagine that instead of being a small town  on barely known tributary of great river you now have a major city on one of biggest rivers in the world - all at a cost of sorting out some old geographical mistakes and changing a few labels on a map?
It can mean a huge economic boost for the area, a new era for entire region!

Then why is Cairo, IL small?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TXtoNJ on February 15, 2018, 10:05:31 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 14, 2018, 05:12:03 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2018, 05:10:27 PM
Quote from: Takumi on February 14, 2018, 02:49:46 PM
Or, you know, not.
Actually this can become a hot topic. Imagine that instead of being a small town  on barely known tributary of great river you now have a major city on one of biggest rivers in the world - all at a cost of sorting out some old geographical mistakes and changing a few labels on a map?
It can mean a huge economic boost for the area, a new era for entire region!

Then why is Cairo, IL small?

Railroads and the New Madrid earthquake.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on February 15, 2018, 01:54:19 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on February 14, 2018, 10:35:49 AM
Another fun one - the Upper Mississippi is hydrologically a tributary of the Ohio River. The Allegheny-Ohio-Lower Mississippi are together the main stream of the Mississippi River system. On average, the Ohio has a larger flow at Cairo, and can be almost twice as much at times of the year.

See, I always figured they were both tributaries of the Missouri–or is that only the case when they're trying to claim the "longest river" title? :-D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on February 15, 2018, 09:16:09 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on February 14, 2018, 12:39:14 PM
Then we should rename the Ohio the Mississippi, the Mississippi between St. Louis and Cairo IL the Missouri, and the Mississippi upstream of St. Louis something else.

Then I say we rename it the I-555 River, since it would be a spur route!!!   :bigass: :bigass: :bigass:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Jordanes on February 16, 2018, 04:41:29 AM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on February 15, 2018, 10:05:31 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 14, 2018, 05:12:03 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2018, 05:10:27 PM
Quote from: Takumi on February 14, 2018, 02:49:46 PM
Or, you know, not.
Actually this can become a hot topic. Imagine that instead of being a small town  on barely known tributary of great river you now have a major city on one of biggest rivers in the world - all at a cost of sorting out some old geographical mistakes and changing a few labels on a map?
It can mean a huge economic boost for the area, a new era for entire region!

Then why is Cairo, IL small?

Railroads and the New Madrid earthquake.

It actually has a lot to do with racism, and very little to do with either of those.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on February 16, 2018, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Jordanes on February 16, 2018, 04:41:29 AM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on February 15, 2018, 10:05:31 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 14, 2018, 05:12:03 PM

Then why is Cairo, IL small?

Railroads and the New Madrid earthquake.

It actually has a lot to do with racism, and very little to do with either of those.

Mostly , from what I understand, it has to do with the death of the coal industry.  Racism just hastened the demise of the town.  Pity, as it seems to me that area is so geographically unique, that Cairo could have been a giant city. (And yes, I know that Giant City State Park is an hour away.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ftballfan on February 16, 2018, 09:56:46 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on February 16, 2018, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Jordanes on February 16, 2018, 04:41:29 AM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on February 15, 2018, 10:05:31 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 14, 2018, 05:12:03 PM

Then why is Cairo, IL small?

Railroads and the New Madrid earthquake.

It actually has a lot to do with racism, and very little to do with either of those.

Mostly , from what I understand, it has to do with the death of the coal industry.  Racism just hastened the demise of the town.  Pity, as it seems to me that area is so geographically unique, that Cairo could have been a giant city. (And yes, I know that Giant City State Park is an hour away.)
I-57 bypassing Cairo far to the west did not help either
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on February 16, 2018, 11:42:25 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on February 16, 2018, 09:56:46 AM
Quote from: inkyatari on February 16, 2018, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Jordanes on February 16, 2018, 04:41:29 AM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on February 15, 2018, 10:05:31 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 14, 2018, 05:12:03 PM

Then why is Cairo, IL small?

Railroads and the New Madrid earthquake.

It actually has a lot to do with racism, and very little to do with either of those.

Mostly , from what I understand, it has to do with the death of the coal industry.  Racism just hastened the demise of the town.  Pity, as it seems to me that area is so geographically unique, that Cairo could have been a giant city. (And yes, I know that Giant City State Park is an hour away.)
I-57 bypassing Cairo far to the west did not help either

I'm surprised that Cairo didn't try to annex the exit a bit further up the way.  Should they build the portion of I-57 that connects the thing to Little Rock, I could see that particular interchange booming a bit.

EDIT.. Looking at a map, I see that they annexed a few of the ramps, but not enough land around it for development.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TXtoNJ on February 16, 2018, 11:45:25 AM
Quote from: Jordanes on February 16, 2018, 04:41:29 AM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on February 15, 2018, 10:05:31 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 14, 2018, 05:12:03 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 14, 2018, 05:10:27 PM
Quote from: Takumi on February 14, 2018, 02:49:46 PM
Or, you know, not.
Actually this can become a hot topic. Imagine that instead of being a small town  on barely known tributary of great river you now have a major city on one of biggest rivers in the world - all at a cost of sorting out some old geographical mistakes and changing a few labels on a map?
It can mean a huge economic boost for the area, a new era for entire region!

Then why is Cairo, IL small?

Railroads and the New Madrid earthquake.

It actually has a lot to do with racism, and very little to do with either of those.

That doesn't make sense. Racism didn't stop New Orleans, Memphis, and St. Louis from getting big.

Bad race relations certainly hastened Cairo's decline, but that could have been weathered if it were a more essential town in the first place. Chicago, the earthquake dampening the early development of the area, and the massive floods every 20-30 years had a much stronger stifling effect on the town's growth. I don't think I-57 could have saved it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on February 16, 2018, 02:55:42 PM
Cairo, ancient floodplain, tends to be foggy and damp even when the higher country around it has better weather, racism problems continued long after other segregated cities acknowledged that the era of legal racism was over.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CarmineJan on February 18, 2018, 05:31:23 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 14, 2018, 01:10:01 AM
Cairo, ancient floodplain, tends to be foggy and damp even when the higher country around it has better weather, racism problems continued long after other segregated cities acknowledged that the era of legal racism was over.

Honestly, I was caught surprised by the fact that Mexico has almost 130 million people. I'm still thinking in figures I've learned in school. Anyone else like that when it comes to populations of countries?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on February 18, 2018, 07:02:01 AM
Quote from: CarmineJan on February 18, 2018, 05:31:23 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 14, 2018, 01:10:01 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangdong

Guangdong province has more people than UK, France combined. But Guangdong is as big as Mexico and Japan in terms of population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan

Honestly, I was caught surprised by the fact that Mexico has almost 130 million people. I'm still thinking in figures I've learned in school. Anyone else like that when it comes to populations of countries?

Indonesia has 237 million.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on February 18, 2018, 09:17:33 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 18, 2018, 07:02:01 AMIndonesia has 237 million.
And really hated the break up of the USSR, as it meant they gained a place to be fourth. Nearly half that number live on Java, too, which exacerbates the problem of the notion of too many people in the country.

The population figures that really get me is Indochina: Cambodia only having 15 million and Laos 7 million, whereas Vietnam has 94 million. My expectations gave me roughly the right figure for the area, but not the distribution - I'd have had something like 70 million in Vietnam, 30 million in Cambodia, and 15 million in Laos.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on February 18, 2018, 11:05:13 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 18, 2018, 07:02:01 AM
Quote from: CarmineJan on February 18, 2018, 05:31:23 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 14, 2018, 01:10:01 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangdong

Guangdong province has more people than UK, France combined. But Guangdong is as big as Mexico and Japan in terms of population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan

Honestly, I was caught surprised by the fact that Mexico has almost 130 million people. I'm still thinking in figures I've learned in school. Anyone else like that when it comes to populations of countries?

Indonesia has 237 million.

... and that's AFTER the independence of Timor L'este....
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mgk920 on February 18, 2018, 11:43:14 AM
Quote from: english si on February 18, 2018, 09:17:33 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 18, 2018, 07:02:01 AMIndonesia has 237 million.
And really hated the break up of the USSR, as it meant they gained a place to be fourth. Nearly half that number live on Java, too, which exacerbates the problem of the notion of too many people in the country.

The population figures that really get me is Indochina: Cambodia only having 15 million and Laos 7 million, whereas Vietnam has 94 million. My expectations gave me roughly the right figure for the area, but not the distribution - I'd have had something like 70 million in Vietnam, 30 million in Cambodia, and 15 million in Laos.

And Cambodia lost several million during the 'Killing Fields' genocide of the Khmer Rouge regime in 1975, too.

Mike
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on February 18, 2018, 04:08:02 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 18, 2018, 11:43:14 AMAnd Cambodia lost several million during the 'Killing Fields' genocide of the Khmer Rouge regime in 1975, too.
True, but '75 is 40 years ago, so a lot of those people would have died since of natural causes. And the regime afterwards pushed breeding as a priority.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jwolfer on February 19, 2018, 03:08:09 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 18, 2018, 07:02:01 AM
Quote from: CarmineJan on February 18, 2018, 05:31:23 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 14, 2018, 01:10:01 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangdong

Guangdong province has more people than UK, France combined. But Guangdong is as big as Mexico and Japan in terms of population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan

Honestly, I was caught surprised by the fact that Mexico has almost 130 million people. I'm still thinking in figures I've learned in school. Anyone else like that when it comes to populations of countries?

Indonesia has 237 million.
The USA, Canada and Australia are on the same scale of size.. but Canada and Australia have about the same population as California. 

In Canada and Australia the population is much more concentrated on the margins with vast areas of empty space.. not even agriculture

And to bring it back to roads.. I sometime s drive on SR19 in Ocala National Forest between Jacksonville and Orlando and think in Australia this is what roads between some major cities in Australia are like, 2 lanes is all that is needed(until Friz Owl get down under and makes them all interstating LOL)

Z981

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on February 19, 2018, 08:24:38 AM
Quote from: jwolfer on February 19, 2018, 03:08:09 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 18, 2018, 07:02:01 AM
Quote from: CarmineJan on February 18, 2018, 05:31:23 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 14, 2018, 01:10:01 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangdong

Guangdong province has more people than UK, France combined. But Guangdong is as big as Mexico and Japan in terms of population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan

Honestly, I was caught surprised by the fact that Mexico has almost 130 million people. I'm still thinking in figures I've learned in school. Anyone else like that when it comes to populations of countries?

Indonesia has 237 million.
The USA, Canada and Australia are on the same scale of size.. but Canada and Australia have about the same population as California. 

In Canada and Australia the population is much more concentrated on the margins with vast areas of empty space.. not even agriculture

And to bring it back to roads.. I sometime s drive on SR19 in Ocala National Forest between Jacksonville and Orlando and think in Australia this is what roads between some major cities in Australia are like, 2 lanes is all that is needed(until Friz Owl get down under and makes them all interstating LOL)

Z981

Some of the remote roads in the Outback in Australia are probably more akin to the Old Brick Highway near Espanola.  The amount of variation on Highway 1 looping the country is amazing.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on February 19, 2018, 10:31:03 AM
More demographic than geographic... but the population growth of Ethiopia is astounding. In 1985, when we had 'USA For Africa' charities, Ethiopia had a population of 41 million. Today it has 102 million people.

And its population is still very rural. Addis Ababa is by far the largest city at 3.4 million, being 10 times larger than the second-largest city of Adama. There are only 3 other cities with a population over 300,000.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 19, 2018, 04:53:26 PM
Quote from: michravera on February 18, 2018, 11:05:13 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 18, 2018, 07:02:01 AM
Quote from: CarmineJan on February 18, 2018, 05:31:23 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 14, 2018, 01:10:01 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangdong

Guangdong province has more people than UK, France combined. But Guangdong is as big as Mexico and Japan in terms of population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan

Honestly, I was caught surprised by the fact that Mexico has almost 130 million people. I'm still thinking in figures I've learned in school. Anyone else like that when it comes to populations of countries?

Indonesia has 237 million.

... and that's AFTER the independence of Timor L'este....
That tiny 1/2 of an island which I have no clue why it was colonized by Portugal not the Dutch probably does not affect much.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on February 19, 2018, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 19, 2018, 04:53:26 PMThat tiny 1/2 of an island
It's only a million, though Indonesia really got annoyed by the loss of Timor Timur.

So much so that they did a whole lot of cunning stuff in Papua, to weaken the independence movement there.
QuoteI have no clue why it was colonized by Portugal not the Dutch
Same as why they had Goa until Indian independence: they claimed it before the other European power got there and the other power wasn't bothered about them having it (Portugal lost a lot of its coastal possessions to other countries though).

Though Timor Leste's independence had more to do with Javan colonialism than different western powers colonising it for 300+ years. One could talk about the Catholic nature of the province being a hangover of Portuguese, rather than Dutch rule, but the surrounding islands are mostly Christian: most notably Nusa Tenggara Timur (the province including West Timor) is majority classed-as-Catholic (in Indonesia you must have one of 5 religions) and only 5% Muslim. That lack of the Islam that dominates Indonesia (87%), remoteness from Java, and relative poverty, is the sort of mix that creates separatist movements elsewhere in Indonesia. I imagine that seeing the might of the Indonesian state to try and keep Timor Timur in their power, plus getting refugees from that conflict and conflicts in Maluku and Irian Jaya/Papua has put the eastern southeastern islands (that's literally what the province name means) off revolting.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 19, 2018, 09:25:51 PM
Quote from: english si on February 19, 2018, 07:03:06 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 19, 2018, 04:53:26 PMThat tiny 1/2 of an island
It's only a million, though Indonesia really got annoyed by the loss of Timor Timur.

So much so that they did a whole lot of cunning stuff in Papua, to weaken the independence movement there.
QuoteI have no clue why it was colonized by Portugal not the Dutch
Same as why they had Goa until Indian independence: they claimed it before the other European power got there and the other power wasn't bothered about them having it (Portugal lost a lot of its coastal possessions to other countries though).

Though Timor Leste's independence had more to do with Javan colonialism than different western powers colonising it for 300+ years. One could talk about the Catholic nature of the province being a hangover of Portuguese, rather than Dutch rule, but the surrounding islands are mostly Christian: most notably Nusa Tenggara Timur (the province including West Timor) is majority classed-as-Catholic (in Indonesia you must have one of 5 religions) and only 5% Muslim. That lack of the Islam that dominates Indonesia (87%), remoteness from Java, and relative poverty, is the sort of mix that creates separatist movements elsewhere in Indonesia. I imagine that seeing the might of the Indonesian state to try and keep Timor Timur in their power, plus getting refugees from that conflict and conflicts in Maluku and Irian Jaya/Papua has put the eastern southeastern islands (that's literally what the province name means) off revolting.
Were the Dutch more hands on?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on February 20, 2018, 09:42:43 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 19, 2018, 09:25:51 PMWere the Dutch more hands on?
I believe it was less to a large extent (eg no one speaks Dutch), though the Portuguese colonisation isn't viewed as negative by Timorans (and the Indonesians don't really talk about the Dutch at all, let alone negatively) as the colonisation by the Japanese during WW2 was far worse than European rule, and Javanese colonisation has been, at times, likewise terrible for the outlying areas (East Timor having a return to Portuguese rule, and Papua to Dutch, in between the two).

But the demographics and remoteness from Java would have had the locals opposed to Javanese rule even if they were a Dutch colony like the other half of the island - North Suluwesi, Papua (which, like Timor Leste, was absorbed into Indonesia after its founding) and nearby Maluku islands have all resisted the Indonesian government's rule from time to time.

Java has over 140 million people living there. Sumatra 47 million. Suluwesi 17, Kalimantan (Indonesian Borneo) 15, Papua and Bali 4 each. Timor (the whole island) has 3 million, as does Lombok. The other islands are smaller. You can understand why places far flung from Java (so not Bali or Lombok), and not sharing much in common with Java (so not Sumatra, large parts of Suluwesi and Kalimantan), feel colonised by the Javans. Add in that Indonesia was ruled by a dictator for a long time, and there were resettle-the-Javanese programmes (still going on with Papua) to ease the problems on that very crowded island and create national unity by sending thousands of Javans to places that aren't keen on Java - its a tiny number of Java's population, but becomes a few percent of the other places'.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on February 24, 2018, 09:39:29 AM
Across the west....the 49th parallel is the border between the US and Canada.

Now head to the east coast and all of the provinces of Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick are located entirely below the 49th plus about 2/3 of the island of Newfoundland.

Ontario and Quebec are above and below the 49th.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Buck87 on February 24, 2018, 02:24:40 PM
Quote from: TXtoNJ on February 14, 2018, 10:35:49 AM
Another fun one - the Upper Mississippi is hydrologically a tributary of the Ohio River. The Allegheny-Ohio-Lower Mississippi are together the main stream of the Mississippi River system. On average, the Ohio has a larger flow at Cairo, and can be almost twice as much at times of the year.

Indeed. I was fascinated by this fact when I first stumbled on it, and have referenced it in my signature ever since. Knowing this fact in advance made my quick stop through Cairo in 2014 all the more interesting, though unfortunately the park at the confluence was closed due to flooding at the time. 

The Ohio River kinda gets shafted on both ends by unconventional naming.....the Allegheny-Ohio-Lower Mississippi stream would have one contiguous name if the rivers had been named in the conventional way. In fact, the Natives considered what we call the Allegheny to just be more of the Ohio, and there's even a hand drawn map by George Washington from 1754 that calls it the Ohio.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on February 24, 2018, 11:44:17 PM
Combining geography and demographics, NASA has produced a nice tool that estimates population (http://sedac.ciesin.columbia.edu/data/collection/gpw-v4/population-estimation-service) based on shapes you draw over a map.

For example, here is the Cascadia "megaregion" (OR/WA/ID/BC), with a population of 17.5 million people.

(https://i.imgur.com/HhJjU0L.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mrpablue on March 28, 2018, 08:16:46 PM
Cartagena, Colombia is farther north than Costa Rica capital, San Jose.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on March 29, 2018, 05:26:00 AM
Quote from: mrpablue on March 28, 2018, 08:16:46 PM
Cartagena, Colombia is farther north than Costa Rica capital, San Jose.

FTFY.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on March 29, 2018, 02:05:35 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uttar_Pradesh

Uttar Pradesh, India is the World's most populated Province it's bigger than even multiple countries.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on March 29, 2018, 02:09:51 PM
Quote from: bing101 on March 29, 2018, 02:05:35 PM
it's bigger than even multiple countries.

Better wording: "If it were its own country, it would be ranked 7th in population."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on March 29, 2018, 06:00:09 PM
Quote from: bing101 on March 29, 2018, 02:05:35 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uttar_Pradesh

Uttar Pradesh, India is the World's most populated Province it's bigger than even multiple countries.
Same could be said about California.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: adventurernumber1 on March 30, 2018, 12:52:05 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 29, 2018, 06:00:09 PM
Quote from: bing101 on March 29, 2018, 02:05:35 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uttar_Pradesh

Uttar Pradesh, India is the World's most populated Province it's bigger than even multiple countries.
Same could be said about California.

As an example, California's population (39,536,653) is slightly larger than that of Canada's (with a population of 35,151,728).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on March 30, 2018, 02:01:54 AM
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on March 30, 2018, 12:52:05 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on March 29, 2018, 06:00:09 PM
Quote from: bing101 on March 29, 2018, 02:05:35 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uttar_Pradesh

Uttar Pradesh, India is the World's most populated Province it's bigger than even multiple countries.
Same could be said about California.

As an example, California's population (39,536,653) is slightly larger than that of Canada's (with a population of 35,151,728).

I've also heard people claiming that it's the 6th largest economy in the world, or would be if it were its own country. And that its taxpayers are pretty much subsidizing many other states in the US with the taxes they pay.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on March 30, 2018, 05:03:40 AM
Quote from: bing101 on March 29, 2018, 02:05:35 PMit's bigger than even multiple countries.
I can say that about my town.

Vatican City - 800
Tuvalu - 10,100
Nauru - 10,800
Palau - 17,800

My town doesn't make it to these, but the urban area does:

San Marino - 33,196
Monaco - 37,550
Liechtenstein - 38,111
St Kitts and Nevis - 46,204
Marshall Islands - 55,000

And the following take us to Wyoming (or my county of Bucks):

Dominica - 71,293
Andorra - 78,264
Antigua and Barbuda - 86,295
Seychelles - 94,205
Tonga - 100,600
Grenada - 103,328
Micronesia - 104,600
St Vincent and the Grenadines - 109,557
Kiribati - 115,300
St Lucia - 178,844
Sao Tome and Principe - 187,356
Samoa - 197,448
Barbados - 285,719
Vanuatu - 289,700
Maldives - 344,023
Iceland - 348,580
Bahamas - 382,460
Belize - 380,010
Brunei - 422,678
Malta - 434,403
Cape Verde - 537,661
Suriname - 541,638
Quote from: 1 on March 29, 2018, 02:09:51 PMBetter wording: "If it were its own country, it would be ranked 7th in population."
5th, probably - the roughly 200 million figure that wikipedia has is from 2011. It's now supposedly about 220 million (10% in 6 years sounds OK with a 1.4% growth rate in India*), which takes it above Brazil's 209 million and Pakistan's 211 million.

*But even if that's a high estimate, two thirds of that would be enough to overtake Pakistan.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on March 30, 2018, 02:01:54 AMI've also heard people claiming that it's the 6th largest economy in the world
Wikipedia saying 5th (ie higher than France and the UK who keep swapping about 5th or 6th) and the figure they give matches that claim.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on March 30, 2018, 09:36:13 AM
From a European perspective it's easy to underestimate the size of countries like Argentina. This trip is approximately the same length as Helsinki to Gibraltar. Or from France to Iran. Or Ottawa to Los Angeles.

(https://i.imgur.com/qTPoDdx.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mrpablue on March 30, 2018, 12:03:12 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on March 29, 2018, 05:26:00 AM
Quote from: mrpablue on March 28, 2018, 08:16:46 PM
Cartagena, Colombia is farther north than Costa Rica capital, San Jose.

FTFY.

As a Spanish speaker and a person with a Spanish given name, that was pretty embarrassing.
Maybe I was thinking of San Juan, Puerto Rico - pretty similar place names for capitals in roughly the same region.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on March 30, 2018, 01:28:34 PM
Quote from: Chris on March 30, 2018, 09:36:13 AM
From a European perspective it's easy to underestimate the size of countries like Argentina. This trip is approximately the same length as Helsinki to Gibraltar. Or from France to Iran. Or Ottawa to Los Angeles.

(https://i.imgur.com/qTPoDdx.png)
Apparently a lot of Europeans and Japanese visiting the US will underestimate the distances between some of the largest cities in the US, though it probably doesn't help that the US has several large cities close together in the northeast (similar to Japan and many European countries), while other major cities are on the opposite side of the country with a whole lot of near nothing in between (for most tourists anyways).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Flint1979 on March 30, 2018, 01:29:53 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 21, 2018, 07:53:27 AM
Quote from: GaryV on January 21, 2018, 07:16:39 AM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on January 20, 2018, 11:49:06 PM
Canada's southernmost land border is farther south than Rome, downtown Chicago, and the California-Oregon border.
I don't think you are saying what you mean to say there, since Canada's only land borders are with Alaska, Washington to Minnesota, and New York to Maine.

Canada's southernmost mainland, Point Pelee, is farther south than the California-Oregon border, and about equal with Rome.  It's about a tenth of a degree north of downtown Chicago.  If you include Pelee Island and the smaller Middle Island in Lake Erie, then your claims are true.



Yes, and it seems the southernmost border–land or otherwise–also holds true. In this case, it's a maritime border in Lake Erie.

(Speaking of Lake Erie, a rough glance suggests that its western end is closer to Chicago than to Buffalo.)
Lake Erie's western end is about 60-70 miles closer to Chicago than it is to Buffalo.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on March 30, 2018, 02:43:23 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on March 30, 2018, 01:28:34 PM
Apparently a lot of Europeans and Japanese visiting the US will underestimate the distances between some of the largest cities in the US, though it probably doesn't help that the US has several large cities close together in the northeast (similar to Japan and many European countries), while other major cities are on the opposite side of the country with a whole lot of near nothing in between (for most tourists anyways).

A typical misunderstanding is that Chicago would be halfway from New York to San Francisco.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on March 31, 2018, 04:07:07 AM
About subdivisions that are more populated than entire countries, I've actually been to one country that is less populated than my province. Having Andorra right next door helps :sombrero:, even though I was a child when I went there. I've also spotted Monaco, which is less populated than my hometown, but didn't enter as I was passing through the area on French A8 on my way to Italy.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: adwerkema on April 26, 2018, 09:01:00 PM
A small portion of Florida is west of Chicago the center of Chicago (Madison and State St intersection).

Westernmost Florida longitude: 87.634631 W
Chicago longitude: 87.6298 W
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 04, 2018, 12:20:32 PM
From the files of "not an oddity at all and doesn't defy anyone's wisdom but my own"...

I can't wrap my mind around where the major cities of Illinois are located. I have it ingrained in my head that Peoria is in the southeast, and Bloomington/Normal is in a north-central region (must be pretty close to Rockford, consequently). Don't know where I picked up this errant mental picture, but it sure is stubborn!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on May 04, 2018, 01:42:28 PM
Quote from: Chris on March 30, 2018, 02:43:23 PMA typical misunderstanding is that Chicago would be halfway from New York to San Francisco.
Well Chicago is just east of the mid-West and mid-West implies something like 'the middle of the West' or 'the West of the Middle', so a bit east of that would be in the middle...  :-P
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 04, 2018, 02:57:19 PM
Quote from: adwerkema on April 26, 2018, 09:01:00 PM
A small portion of Florida is west of Chicago.

Westernmost Florida longitude: 87.634631 W
Chicago longitude: 87.6298 W

Not even counting O'Hare, Chicago goes out to 87.86°W, so no point in Florida is west of Chicago.

However, even the fact that part of Florida is as far west as Chicago totally blew my mind.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 04, 2018, 03:25:37 PM
Quote from: english si on May 04, 2018, 01:42:28 PM
Quote from: Chris on March 30, 2018, 02:43:23 PMA typical misunderstanding is that Chicago would be halfway from New York to San Francisco.
Well Chicago is just east of the mid-West and mid-West implies something like 'the middle of the West' or 'the West of the Middle', so a bit east of that would be in the middle...  :-P

That's interesting. I would consider Chicago to be in the middle of the Midwest.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on May 04, 2018, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: empirestate on May 04, 2018, 12:20:32 PM
From the files of "not an oddity at all and doesn't defy anyone's wisdom but my own"...

I can't wrap my mind around where the major cities of Illinois are located. I have it ingrained in my head that Peoria is in the southeast, and Bloomington/Normal is in a north-central region (must be pretty close to Rockford, consequently). Don't know where I picked up this errant mental picture, but it sure is stubborn!

I'm the same way with California, and to a lesser extent Florida, but not with major cities, but with minor ones.

In California, I can place San Diego, Los Angeles, Sacramento and San Francisco/Oakland, but any of the other cities that are frequently mentioned, I don't know whether they are in the north or the south. For instance, Modesto. That's were former Kentucky basketball player Chuck Hayes was from. I'd have to find it on a map because I have no clue what it's near or what part of the state it's in.

For Florida, the issue is beach towns. Tallahassee, Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa/St. Pete, Miami? Check. But name any popular beach city other than Daytona, and I'm clueless. I don't know whether Palm Beach is closer to Cape Canaveral or Key West.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: abefroman329 on May 04, 2018, 03:42:06 PM
I really have no idea where any cities in Texas are.  Houston is on the Gulf?  If you say so!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 04, 2018, 03:42:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2018, 02:57:19 PM
Quote from: adwerkema on April 26, 2018, 09:01:00 PM
A small portion of Florida is west of Chicago.

Westernmost Florida longitude: 87.634631 W
Chicago longitude: 87.6298 W

Not even counting O'Hare, Chicago goes out to 87.86°W, so no point in Florida is west of Chicago.

However, even the fact that part of Florida is as far west as Chicago totally blew my mind.

People seem to underestimate how much the east coast slants to the west as you move south. The state of New York, for example, lies entirely to the east of Florida.

This, of course, is part of the reason EW interstates in the area tend to have a significant NS component.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: adwerkema on May 04, 2018, 05:11:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 04, 2018, 02:57:19 PM
Quote from: adwerkema on April 26, 2018, 09:01:00 PM
A small portion of Florida is west of Chicago.

Westernmost Florida longitude: 87.634631 W
Chicago longitude: 87.6298 W

Not even counting O'Hare, Chicago goes out to 87.86°W, so no point in Florida is west of Chicago.

However, even the fact that part of Florida is as far west as Chicago totally blew my mind.

Thanks for the correction. I should have wrote "is west of the center of Chicago (Madison and State streets)".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on May 08, 2018, 03:13:54 PM


Wendover productions did a YouTube segment on Guam but the host got one thing wrong about California being tropical when in reality its a Chaparral climate.

But guam is closer to the Philippines, Taiwan, Japan, North Korea and South Korea and China than the USA.

Yes Guam is a US Colony that has the population of Elk Grove, California. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_Grove,_California
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on May 08, 2018, 03:39:21 PM


Cities growth another video by wendover productions.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Nanis on May 08, 2018, 03:41:25 PM
The tip of Idaho is smaller then Delaware turned on its side.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on May 08, 2018, 03:47:22 PM
Quote from: Nanis on May 08, 2018, 03:41:25 PM
The tip of Idaho is smaller then Delaware turned on its side.
*citation needed*
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on May 08, 2018, 04:33:57 PM
I think from a European perspective, it is often thought that Hawaii is west of California, while in reality it is significantly farther south. Still, Hawaii is closer to Alaska than California.

One thing that blew my mind in that Wendover video about Guam is that Delhi is closer to Washington, D.C. than Guam is. The difference is not great, but still. It's easy to underestimate the size of the Pacific Ocean.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on May 08, 2018, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 08, 2018, 03:47:22 PM
Quote from: Nanis on May 08, 2018, 03:41:25 PM
The tip of Idaho is smaller then Delaware turned on its side.
*citation needed*
Not too surprising... the fact that this also holds true for Rhode Island might be though!  Longest N-S distance in RI is about 47 miles (measured with Google Maps), while the shortest E-W distance across Idaho is only about 45 miles long.  Delaware's N-S distance, meanwhile, comes out at a whopping 95 miles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 09, 2018, 04:48:59 PM
Quote from: bing101 on May 08, 2018, 03:13:54 PM


I wonder how they claim it's America's most isolated territory when the very next island to its north is...another U.S. territory.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on May 09, 2018, 05:20:13 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 08, 2018, 08:57:38 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 08, 2018, 03:47:22 PM
Quote from: Nanis on May 08, 2018, 03:41:25 PM
The tip of Idaho is smaller then Delaware turned on its side.
*citation needed*
Not too surprising... the fact that this also holds true for Rhode Island might be though!  Longest N-S distance in RI is about 47 miles (measured with Google Maps), while the shortest E-W distance across Idaho is only about 45 miles long.  Delaware's N-S distance, meanwhile, comes out at a whopping 95 miles!
Ah, I misread the original assertion.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on May 09, 2018, 08:44:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on May 09, 2018, 04:48:59 PM
I wonder how they claim it's America's most isolated territory when the very next island to its north is...another U.S. territory.
One could possibly make an argument on levels of development and the Jones Act... but it's probably based on "distance from US mainland" rather than "distance from nearest part of the rest of the US".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on May 10, 2018, 03:05:45 AM
^^ It's got to be distance from the mainland. The US has some atolls that are completely undeveloped.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 10, 2018, 11:30:34 AM
Quote from: english si on May 10, 2018, 03:05:45 AM
^^ It's got to be distance from the mainland. The US has some atolls that are completely undeveloped.

I think that's American Samoa, then. It's much farther from the Alaskan Peninsula than Guam is.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on May 10, 2018, 01:31:43 PM
Wendover measured relative to the lower 48.  He was also talking about how developed it is, and how it looks like Anytown, USA.  There was also the mention of how Guam is not exempt from the Jones Act, even though every other Pacific territory is, resulting in higher shipping costs.

Of course, this is Wendover Productions.  Even though it's on the main channel rather than Half as Interesting, I don't think Wendover was digging that deep.  He probably looked at a map, saw how far away Guam is, and deemed it to be the most remote part of the US.

Actually, come to think of it, I think he was measuring specifically to DC.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on May 10, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
The significant part of the video is indeed how much like "Anytown USA".   And how much its GDP per capita and other economic measures are contrasted to other non-state island parts of the USA. 

If you look at the video and other photos and street view and such of the place, it easily looks like Florida, the Texas coast, or southern California.    US spec cars, US stores, US road standards, US road signage, including rejection of the metric system, US brands, US mail boxes and post offices, US flags.  Leaving out the ethnic make-up (it is 92% people other than black or white) you could film a movie set in southwest Florida there and only the most nitpicky would not fall for it.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 10, 2018, 02:36:17 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 10, 2018, 01:31:43 PM
Wendover measured relative to the lower 48.  He was also talking about how developed it is, and how it looks like Anytown, USA.  There was also the mention of how Guam is not exempt from the Jones Act, even though every other Pacific territory is, resulting in higher shipping costs.

Of course, this is Wendover Productions.  Even though it's on the main channel rather than Half as Interesting, I don't think Wendover was digging that deep.  He probably looked at a map, saw how far away Guam is, and deemed it to be the most remote part of the US.

Actually, come to think of it, I think he was measuring specifically to DC.

He mentioned it being farthest from the "continental" U.S.–which would actually be American Samoa–but, as evidence for that, presented distances from Washington, DC, which of course is not the nearest point of the continent.

Guam may be the most distant territory from the 48 contiguous states, but at that point it's getting to be a pretty selective and arbitrary statistic, since there are two closer states of equal status to the other 48, and of course the very nearby territory of the Northern Mariana Islands. You may as well claim that it's the territory most remote from New England, or the most isolated from any state whose name begins with an 'I'. :-D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on May 20, 2018, 09:28:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeWOc-cjfY0

Disney World is the  same size as San Francisco.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on May 29, 2018, 11:43:16 AM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on June 06, 2018, 05:58:14 PM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Flint1979 on June 07, 2018, 12:46:14 AM
Quote from: bing101 on May 20, 2018, 09:28:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeWOc-cjfY0

Disney World is the  same size as San Francisco.
And Boston as well.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on June 24, 2018, 04:38:16 PM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on June 24, 2018, 04:58:25 PM
Already in the first page I mentioned Virginia reaches further West than West Virginia. Now I've found the Republic of Ireland reaches further North than Northern Ireland.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: adwerkema on June 28, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on June 24, 2018, 04:58:25 PM
Already in the first page I mentioned Virginia reaches further West than West Virginia.

Virginia even reaches further west than downtown Detroit.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jmd41280 on June 28, 2018, 10:48:15 PM
Quote from: adwerkema on June 28, 2018, 01:32:48 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on June 24, 2018, 04:58:25 PM
Already in the first page I mentioned Virginia reaches further West than West Virginia.

Virginia even reaches further west than downtown Detroit.

Interestingly enough, the SW tip of Virginia (Cumberland Gap) is closer to downtown Detroit (397.22 miles) than it is to Virginia Beach (426.62 miles).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mrpablue on June 30, 2018, 08:27:31 PM
1. Seattle is farther north than Quebec City
2. Monaco is farther north than downtown Toronto (Similar comparisons between North America and Europe have probably been made here before)

Someone move Canada farther north
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on June 30, 2018, 09:08:58 PM
Quote from: mrpablue on June 30, 2018, 08:27:31 PM
1. Seattle is farther north than Quebec City
2. Monaco is farther north than downtown Toronto (Similar comparisons between North America and Europe have probably been made here before)

Someone move Canada farther north
Someone needs to compare fraction of Canada population living south of 49th parallel to fraction of land below 49th.
Crude estimate for population is at least 1/3 (6.4M Toronto, 4.1M Montreal, 0.95M Ottawa 0.5M Quebec city  areas = 12M, out of 36 M total population. But that is low estimate as most of Ontario population - 13.6 M  - seems to be south of 49th. That would add another 6M;  so I wouldn't be surprised majority of Canadians live south of 49th..
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on June 30, 2018, 09:15:50 PM
http://sedac.ciesin.columbia.edu/mapping/popest/gpw-v4/

You can create your own polygon, and it will determine the population living within that area. The one I created had 22 million, and I was very cautious not to include any of the United States, so it might be higher.

EDIT: I included 4 areas in the United States (one ME, one NY, two MI) totaling about 38,000 people. This should be more than made up for by considering that Kingston, ON and Windsor, ON were outside the polygon.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MikeTheActuary on July 01, 2018, 10:30:23 AM
I know that discussion has moved on, but a thought occurred to me....

Quote from: empirestate on May 09, 2018, 04:48:59 PM
I wonder how they claim it's America's most isolated territory when the very next island to its north is...another U.S. territory.

I wonder if the claim is based on a view of the United States that predates the mid 80's.

While the Northern Mariana Islands are now a territory of the United States, that is a relatively recent status IF one considers the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands to have been an area merely administered for the international community by the United States (as successor to the prior Japanese mandate over the former German imperial claims), rather than being actual US territory.

The other successor components of the TTPI did, after all, choose to be sovereign entities (albeit with continuing close ties to the US).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on July 03, 2018, 05:46:38 AM
I was watching NBC News last evening and correspondent Stephanie Gosk....reporting on the heat wave made the comment that Burlington Vermont reached 90 deg and only 50 miles from the Canadian Border!

Wow!.....Imagine That! How could it possibly get that warm in Burlington so close to Canada!  And looking at the weather map NBC presented.....those soaring temps just stopped at the Canadian Border. Guess it's just a big arctic wasteland above!

I'm in Fredericton, New Brunswick today.... also 50 miles from the Border. Today's high is 32 with a humidex of 41 and in case you're wondering....that's 90 with a "˜feel like' temp of 105.   
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on July 03, 2018, 06:48:36 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on July 03, 2018, 05:46:38 AM
I was watching NBC News last evening and correspondent Stephanie Gosk....reporting on the heat wave made the comment that Burlington Vermont reached 90 deg and only 50 miles from the Canadian Border!

Wow!.....Imagine That! How could it possibly get that warm in Burlington so close to Canada!  And looking at the weather map NBC presented.....those soaring temps just stopped at the Canadian Border. Guess it's just a big arctic wasteland above!

I'm in Fredericton, New Brunswick today.... also 50 miles from the Border. Today's high is 32 with a humidex of 41 and in case you're wondering....that's 90 with a "˜feel like' temp of 105.   
First of all, you probably saw journalists located in NYC - who barely differentiate between Upstate NY and North Pole. Second... You'll never see three digit heat in Canada, as you just demonstrated..
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on July 03, 2018, 08:33:41 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 03, 2018, 06:48:36 AMSecond... You'll never see three digit heat in Canada, as you just demonstrated..
Err, Winnipeg has record highs for 5 months (May-September) in the 100s. Toronto has three (July-Sept).

Even Edmonton, at 53N, has reached 99F (though Moscow - similarly a long way from the softening effects of the ocean on temperature is at 55N and has gone over 100F).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on July 03, 2018, 08:52:00 AM
I was on vacation in Norway last month. The farthest north I got this time was 62.45 N. Which isn't very far north by Scandinavian standards. It is still southern Norway. Or central Sweden. But when you compare that latitude to North America.... You'll end up in Nunavut or on Baffin Island.

If you watch Ice Road Truckers, that show is located in Manitoba. Those winter roads are pretty far south compared to similar latitudes in Europe.

Speaking of Canada, their provinces are considerably larger than one might think. Manitoba stretches over 750 miles north to south, similar to the distance from Chicago to the Gulf of Mexico.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on July 03, 2018, 09:20:39 AM
Quote from: english si on July 03, 2018, 08:33:41 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 03, 2018, 06:48:36 AMSecond... You'll never see three digit heat in Canada, as you just demonstrated..
Err, Winnipeg has record highs for 5 months (May-September) in the 100s. Toronto has three (July-Sept).

Even Edmonton, at 53N, has reached 99F (though Moscow - similarly a long way from the softening effects of the ocean on temperature is at 55N and has gone over 100F).
Isn't Canada officially using Celsius?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ftballfan on July 03, 2018, 09:31:26 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on July 03, 2018, 05:46:38 AM
I was watching NBC News last evening and correspondent Stephanie Gosk....reporting on the heat wave made the comment that Burlington Vermont reached 90 deg and only 50 miles from the Canadian Border!

Wow!.....Imagine That! How could it possibly get that warm in Burlington so close to Canada!  And looking at the weather map NBC presented.....those soaring temps just stopped at the Canadian Border. Guess it's just a big arctic wasteland above!

I'm in Fredericton, New Brunswick today.... also 50 miles from the Border. Today's high is 32 with a humidex of 41 and in case you're wondering....that's 90 with a "˜feel like' temp of 105.   

Alpena, MI, which is at a higher latitude than Burlington, VT, hit 99 degrees on Saturday. Also, the Toronto Blue Jays played their weekend series with the roof closed due to the heat.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on July 03, 2018, 10:00:38 AM
Where is the northernmost recorded temperature of 100 degrees or more?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on July 03, 2018, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: empirestate on July 03, 2018, 10:00:38 AM
Where is the northernmost recorded temperature of 100 degrees or more?
Fort McMurray shows a record of 103F, 60 deg north. Fort Yukon, AK shows 100 as a record - 66.5 N
I doubt you'll find anything further north in Europe  or Russia .
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: abefroman329 on July 03, 2018, 11:44:57 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on June 24, 2018, 04:58:25 PM
Already in the first page I mentioned Virginia reaches further West than West Virginia. Now I've found the Republic of Ireland reaches further North than Northern Ireland.

Yeah, "Northern Ireland" is a bit of a misnomer - it's more like Northeastern Ireland.  And the Donegal and Northern Ireland accents are indistinguishable to my ears.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on July 03, 2018, 12:31:28 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 03, 2018, 11:21:23 AM
Quote from: empirestate on July 03, 2018, 10:00:38 AM
Where is the northernmost recorded temperature of 100 degrees or more?
Fort McMurray shows a record of 103F, 60 deg north. Fort Yukon, AK shows 100 as a record - 66.5 N
I doubt you'll find anything further north in Europe  or Russia .

That would correspond with the latitude of northern Scandinavia. The highest I found is some 34.5 C  / 94 F in Gällivare and Jokkmokk, Sweden, which is at 67 N.

It's interesting how far north 30+ C has been recorded though, even in Finnmark as far north as 70 N.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mapman1071 on July 05, 2018, 08:11:46 PM
Quote from: kalvado on July 03, 2018, 09:20:39 AM
Quote from: english si on July 03, 2018, 08:33:41 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 03, 2018, 06:48:36 AMSecond... You'll never see three digit heat in Canada, as you just demonstrated..
Err, Winnipeg has record highs for 5 months (May-September) in the 100s. Toronto has three (July-Sept).

Even Edmonton, at 53N, has reached 99F (though Moscow - similarly a long way from the softening effects of the ocean on temperature is at 55N and has gone over 100F).
Isn't Canada officially using Celsius?
100c (212F) would be boiling!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on July 06, 2018, 10:03:51 PM
The warmest temperature ever recorded at the North Pole was 55ºF. Perfect football weather.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 14, 2018, 11:23:36 PM


Here is a video on time zones.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on July 15, 2018, 04:06:14 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 03, 2018, 11:21:23 AMI doubt you'll find anything further north in Europe  or Russia .
Why the dichotomy between Europe and Russia? Now sure, there's Asian Russia (which is the only part of Asia at the latitudes we're talking about), but...
Quote from: abefroman329 on July 03, 2018, 11:44:57 AMYeah, "Northern Ireland" is a bit of a misnomer - it's more like Northeastern Ireland.  And the Donegal and Northern Ireland accents are indistinguishable to my ears.
Well both are Ulster (which is why NI couldn't be called that), though there are a few different sub-accents (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_English)* within that, though none of them give two hoots about the 1922-boundary (save the patch of Ulster Scots around Letterkenny in Donegal not crossing the border into the Derry/Strabane areas) and so there's little difference at the border.

*And the question of whether you can spot the Belfast vowel shifts, or Derry intonation, is moot.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on July 15, 2018, 10:03:38 AM
Quote from: english si on July 15, 2018, 04:06:14 AM
Quote from: kalvado on July 03, 2018, 11:21:23 AMI doubt you'll find anything further north in Europe  or Russia .
Why the dichotomy between Europe and Russia? Now sure, there's Asian Russia (which is the only part of Asia at the latitudes we're talking about), but...
How would you say that instead, without going into a laundry list of countries - or putting everything into "Eurasia" bin?
Thing is, there is some pretty geographic dichotomy here: Europe heated by Gulf stream and colder asian part, russian shore of the arctic ocean. Of course there is a transition region- Barents and White seas
What I really don't understand is why there are higher temperatures in continental US/Canada (and try to say that without using country names as well) . Looks like effect of polar vortex shape; jetstream can deviate further north over there, allowing warm air in.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on July 15, 2018, 11:36:39 AM
"Eurasia" is fine. "Europe or Asia" is also good even though the only bit of Asia we're talking about is Russian. "Europe or Siberia" will do too.

TBF to you, I'm reacting from a context different from yours, where Slavs (especially Russians) are othered as not 'European' with the idea that that 'European' = superior (leading to a "we're not racist - Slavs are white and we hate them for the same reasons") and that being seen as woke and liberal - part of it is politics (Putin), but most of it is just prejudice and hate masquerading as the non-bigoted option.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on July 15, 2018, 12:51:57 PM
Quote from: english si on July 15, 2018, 11:36:39 AM
"Eurasia" is fine. "Europe or Asia" is also good even though the only bit of Asia we're talking about is Russian. "Europe or Siberia" will do too.

TBF to you, I'm reacting from a context different from yours, where Slavs (especially Russians) are othered as not 'European' with the idea that that 'European' = superior (leading to a "we're not racist - Slavs are white and we hate them for the same reasons") and that being seen as woke and liberal - part of it is politics (Putin), but most of it is just prejudice and hate masquerading as the non-bigoted option.
I am not going to explain you why, but I find this tirade extremely funny...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on July 18, 2018, 07:35:28 AM
Montevideo is farther south than Buenos Aires, making it the southernmost capital in South America.

From a glance it appears that Buenos Aires is the farthest south, since it is south of the Río de la Plata while Montevideo is north of it.

Also: Bolivia has a navy despite not being on any ocean.

Another interesting comparison. Antarctica is at the opposite latitude of Trondheim, Norway (63.15 S / N)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on July 19, 2018, 07:32:57 AM
Do you mean the northernmost tip of Antarctica?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on July 19, 2018, 08:51:04 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but RI borders NY.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 28, 2018, 06:39:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQyxG4vTyZ8

Now this Hong Kong and China erasing borders.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on August 17, 2018, 08:48:58 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyuZi9fHC4Y

Here is how Chicago got some geographical advantages to be a large city.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on August 18, 2018, 05:58:28 AM
Maybe they should tell them the Illinois River isn't in Chicago.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ET21 on August 20, 2018, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: GaryV on August 18, 2018, 05:58:28 AM
Maybe they should tell them the Illinois River isn't in Chicago.

It turns into the Des Plaines River, which connects to the I&M Canal which leads into the Chicago River. The Illinois River name does end just south of Channahon IL
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on August 20, 2018, 06:21:34 PM
Quote from: ET21 on August 20, 2018, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: GaryV on August 18, 2018, 05:58:28 AM
Maybe they should tell them the Illinois River isn't in Chicago.

It turns into the Des Plaines River, which connects to the I&M Canal which leads into the Chicago River. The Illinois River name does end just south of Channahon IL

But until they dug the sewage canal, they didn't even touch.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ET21 on August 21, 2018, 08:54:46 AM
Quote from: GaryV on August 20, 2018, 06:21:34 PM
Quote from: ET21 on August 20, 2018, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: GaryV on August 18, 2018, 05:58:28 AM
Maybe they should tell them the Illinois River isn't in Chicago.

It turns into the Des Plaines River, which connects to the I&M Canal which leads into the Chicago River. The Illinois River name does end just south of Channahon IL

But until they dug the sewage canal, they didn't even touch.

Quite true. If we really want to get technical, it does enter Chicago briefly as the river goes underneath I-190 and the Blue Line tracks. But yes, until the canal was built, the river never went all the way into downtown Chicago proper.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mrsman on August 21, 2018, 09:55:22 AM
Quote from: ET21 on August 21, 2018, 08:54:46 AM
Quote from: GaryV on August 20, 2018, 06:21:34 PM
Quote from: ET21 on August 20, 2018, 10:03:30 AM
Quote from: GaryV on August 18, 2018, 05:58:28 AM
Maybe they should tell them the Illinois River isn't in Chicago.

It turns into the Des Plaines River, which connects to the I&M Canal which leads into the Chicago River. The Illinois River name does end just south of Channahon IL

But until they dug the sewage canal, they didn't even touch.

Quite true. If we really want to get technical, it does enter Chicago briefly as the river goes underneath I-190 and the Blue Line tracks. But yes, until the canal was built, the river never went all the way into downtown Chicago proper.

The Des Plaines River and the Chicago River do come close.  Before the canal was built, they could carry items a short distance between boats on the two different rivers.  The canal eliminated the need for this and made shipping quicker.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tchafe1978 on August 21, 2018, 09:57:27 AM
The canal was also built with the purpose of allowing Chicago to reverse the flow of the Chicago River and flush the city's sewage down the Illinois River to the Mississippi.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on September 06, 2018, 07:00:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJZs_VLx6p4


Another video on Geographic oddities.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MantyMadTown on September 06, 2018, 08:40:51 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.

I found that in the far southern and southeastern parts of Superior if you go east you'll still be in Wisconsin until you hit Michigan, but certainly, the bulk of Superior allows you to go straight to Minnesota in all four directions.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on September 20, 2018, 09:15:10 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3cSbcVXR2w


Another video from Half as Interesting.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Alps on September 23, 2018, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 19, 2018, 04:52:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)
I have never heard someone call Cape Cod a peninsula.
Cape Cod is most definitely a peninsula based on the definition thereof. It could be considered a manmade island thanks to the canal, but then all of Delmarva is an island as well...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ftballfan on September 23, 2018, 08:14:10 PM
Quote from: Alps on September 23, 2018, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 19, 2018, 04:52:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)
I have never heard someone call Cape Cod a peninsula.
Cape Cod is most definitely a peninsula based on the definition thereof. It could be considered a manmade island thanks to the canal, but then all of Delmarva is an island as well...
One could consider South Korea to be a geopolitical island (its only land border is with North Korea)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on September 23, 2018, 11:51:32 PM
Quote from: Alps on September 23, 2018, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 19, 2018, 04:52:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)
I have never heard someone call Cape Cod a peninsula.
Cape Cod is most definitely a peninsula based on the definition thereof. It could be considered a manmade island thanks to the canal, but then all of Delmarva is an island as well...

I mean, I've never heard anyone call this (https://goo.gl/maps/qMdm2Kub1mn) a peninsula, but I know it is one.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on September 24, 2018, 09:09:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkxbQODbGgc



Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on September 26, 2018, 04:26:16 PM
Just about every flight from the Maritimes to central Canada will be in US airspace for about 200 miles across the State of Maine. Most usually re-enter Canada just east of Lac-Magantic, Quebec:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA617/history/20180925/1805Z/CYHZ/CYYZ

But on a flight last week we stayed over the US until Niagara Falls....

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA617/history/20180920/1805Z/CYHZ/CYYZ

Here's a shot over Maine of I-95 heading north from the ME155 interchange at Howland:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1920/44884924352_f178bfce3c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bojYf5)20180924_141941 (https://flic.kr/p/2bojYf5) by GH (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142197825@N02/), on Flickr
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on September 26, 2018, 04:36:28 PM
Quote from: Chris on July 18, 2018, 07:35:28 AM
Also: Bolivia has a navy despite not being on any ocean.

So does Switzerland.

Rivers and lakes, yo!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on October 04, 2018, 06:27:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKHDnAoqejo
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on October 11, 2018, 02:51:48 AM
Quote from: Alps on September 23, 2018, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 19, 2018, 04:52:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)
I have never heard someone call Cape Cod a peninsula.
Cape Cod is most definitely a peninsula based on the definition thereof. It could be considered a manmade island thanks to the canal, but then all of Delmarva is an island as well...
If that's a definition, then the entire US east of the Mississippi and south of the Great Lakes is an island thanks to the Chicago River.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on October 11, 2018, 04:05:55 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on October 11, 2018, 02:51:48 AM
Quote from: Alps on September 23, 2018, 02:48:41 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 19, 2018, 04:52:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 18, 2018, 11:04:15 AM
Here's one: Cape Cod is a cape.

Don't know why that defies conventional wisdom, exactly, but for some reason there's an idea going around that "Cape Cod" is a misnomer, and that it's actually a peninsula rather than a cape. I guess there's a misconception that capes are always high, rocky headlands or promontories (like Cape Ann or Cape of Good Hope), but the word is just as often applied to flat, sandy protrusions of land, like Cape Cod or Cape Canaveral.

(It is also a peninsula, of course, being surrounded on three sides by water; some capes are more two-sided and so wouldn't be described as peninsulas.)
I have never heard someone call Cape Cod a peninsula.
Cape Cod is most definitely a peninsula based on the definition thereof. It could be considered a manmade island thanks to the canal, but then all of Delmarva is an island as well...
If that's a definition, then the entire US east of the Mississippi and south of the Great Lakes is an island thanks to the Chicago River.

Yeah, and Africa is a whole separate continent! Oh, wait....
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mgk920 on October 11, 2018, 11:40:33 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on September 26, 2018, 04:26:16 PM
Just about every flight from the Maritimes to central Canada will be in US airspace for about 200 miles across the State of Maine. Most usually re-enter Canada just east of Lac-Magantic, Quebec:

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA617/history/20180925/1805Z/CYHZ/CYYZ

But on a flight last week we stayed over the US until Niagara Falls....

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA617/history/20180920/1805Z/CYHZ/CYYZ

Here's a shot over Maine of I-95 heading north from the ME155 interchange at Howland:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1920/44884924352_f178bfce3c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2bojYf5)20180924_141941 (https://flic.kr/p/2bojYf5) by GH (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142197825@N02/), on Flickr

Oodles of Canadian domestic flights regularly overfly the northern half of Wisconsin and Da YooPee of Michigan (et al), too.  Just like oodles of USA domestic flights also regularly overfly southwestern Ontario.

Mike
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on October 16, 2018, 06:45:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RRfVQKo5Zs
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on October 17, 2018, 04:27:00 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 11, 2018, 11:40:33 AM
Oodles of Canadian domestic flights regularly overfly the northern half of Wisconsin and Da YooPee of Michigan...........

Mike

Speaking of airline routes across the UP......in the late 1940's the Canadian Government contributed funding to establish airports and radio range stations at Kinross, Grand Marais and Houghton in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.

Some background......Trans-Canada Air Lines' (now Air Canada) original transcontinental route from Toronto to Winnipeg and onto Vancouver was north of Lake Superior through Kapuskasing and Armstrong, Ontario. In 1947 this airway was realigned to provide a shorter route from Manitoulin Island, Ontario to Port Arthur-Fort William (today's Thunder Bay). Canada's Department of Transport required airports at approximately 100 mile intervals along the airway in case of an emergency landing......so the need to establish the airports across Michigan and the Canadian Government funding contribution.

Trans-Canada Air Lines actually managed the airport at Kinross, Michigan until the USAF took over and TCA became the tenant. Sault Ste Marie, Ontario was served from Kinross, MI until the new airport opened on the Canadian side in 1961. Until then, Canadian passengers were carried "In Bond"  across the border by bus and not required to clear US Customs (can you imagine that happening today!)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on October 30, 2018, 07:34:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgZ1f4ACZBQ
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MantyMadTown on October 30, 2018, 08:56:18 PM
Quote from: bing101 on October 30, 2018, 07:34:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgZ1f4ACZBQ

I love CGP Grey's videos! I'm so glad he made a new video after being inactive for a long time.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on October 31, 2018, 09:18:03 AM
Yeah.  The guy is really good, but has had a bad case of writer's block for almost a year. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 31, 2018, 12:59:18 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on October 31, 2018, 09:18:03 AM
Yeah.  The guy is really good, but has had a bad case of writer's block for almost a year. 

I gather (from watching a video wherein he actually talked about it) that he took a huge step back from the world of the internet recently, because he saw it interfering with parts of himself as a person that he found more valuable.  I wouldn't call that writer's block.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on October 31, 2018, 01:54:27 PM
Well, if you listen to his podcast (quite good) he is in a cell phone free period, due to the negative aspects of facebook, twitter, et al.  However making the videos for youtube is his actual job. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 15, 2018, 04:33:47 PM
The easternmost point in the United States, by longitude, is in Alaska (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semisopochnoi_Island).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 15, 2018, 04:58:10 PM
A single municipal district in Mexico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chigmecatitlan) has a population of only 3.24 but has an area of 9 billion km².



OK, I discovered this one years ago, but I never told anyone about it until now because it was just too darned funny, and it would seem a shame for anyone to actually go in and correct it.  The article used to be a little bit longer, but it has been edited here and there; I think I even took part in an edit at one point.  It somehow pleases me to know that this information has stayed on Wikipedia for so long with almost nobody noticing.  If you want the current article to make a little more "sense" and have the know-how to do it, you should look through the edit history.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 15, 2018, 05:27:38 PM
Per the Spanish Wikipedia (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chigmecatitl%C3%A1n) that municipality has a population of 1,137 and an area of 28.06 km² (10.83 sq mi). Vandalism, sure.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 15, 2018, 06:09:10 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 15, 2018, 05:27:38 PM
Per the Spanish Wikipedia (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chigmecatitl%C3%A1n) that municipality has a population of 1,137 and an area of 28.06 km² (10.83 sq mi). Vandalism, sure.

Yeah, I wouldn't trust the Spanish Wikipedia.  Mexico is a lot closer to the USA than it is to Spain.  Y también, España está ubicado más cerca de los Vándalos (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%83%C2%A1ndalos) que está los EEUU.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on November 15, 2018, 10:34:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 15, 2018, 06:09:10 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 15, 2018, 05:27:38 PM
Per the Spanish Wikipedia (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chigmecatitl%C3%A1n) that municipality has a population of 1,137 and an area of 28.06 km² (10.83 sq mi). Vandalism, sure.

Yeah, I wouldn't trust the Spanish Wikipedia.  Mexico is a lot closer to the USA than it is to Spain.  Y también, España está ubicado más cerca de los Vándalos (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%83%C2%A1ndalos) que está los EEUU.

It's the Spanish language Wikipedia. Each language has its own, not each country.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on November 15, 2018, 10:59:16 PM
Yeah, those "facts" were added in 2012 by an anonymous editor (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chigmecatitlan&diff=498357491&oldid=367336128) and were clearly a piece of vandalism. I've gone ahead and corrected it based on the es.wiki article.

Just note that Spanish Wikipedia is pretty reliable when it comes to topics from Latin America, given that it's one of the earliest-established versions of Wikipedia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 10:54:23 AM
Quote from: 1 on November 15, 2018, 10:34:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 15, 2018, 06:09:10 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 15, 2018, 05:27:38 PM
Per the Spanish Wikipedia (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chigmecatitl%C3%A1n) that municipality has a population of 1,137 and an area of 28.06 km² (10.83 sq mi). Vandalism, sure.

Yeah, I wouldn't trust the Spanish Wikipedia.  Mexico is a lot closer to the USA than it is to Spain.  Y también, España está ubicado más cerca de los Vándalos (https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%83%C2%A1ndalos) que está los EEUU.

It's the Spanish language Wikipedia. Each language has its own, not each country.

I'm choosing to interpret the es. at the beginning of the URL as España, not español castellano.




Quote from: Bruce on November 15, 2018, 10:59:16 PM
Yeah, those "facts" were added in 2012 by an anonymous editor (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chigmecatitlan&diff=498357491&oldid=367336128) and were clearly a piece of vandalism. I've gone ahead and corrected it based on the es.wiki article.

Just note that Spanish Wikipedia is pretty reliable when it comes to topics from Latin America, given that it's one of the earliest-established versions of Wikipedia.

Narc!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 16, 2018, 02:46:59 PM
So you want a Mexican Wikipedia separate from the Spanish one? Then the English Wikipedia should be split into at least British and American ones.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 16, 2018, 02:46:59 PM
So you want a Mexican Wikipedia separate from the Spanish one? Then the English Wikipedia should be split into at least British and American ones.

Cool.  Let's get on that.

mx.wikipedia.org
uk.wikipedia.org

Oh, wait, that second one already exists.   :-P
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on November 16, 2018, 03:32:56 PM
There are two Norwegian wikipedias. Bokmål and Nynorsk. Both are essentially the same language but with some spelling differences.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on November 16, 2018, 03:33:20 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 16, 2018, 02:46:59 PM
So you want a Mexican Wikipedia separate from the Spanish one? Then the English Wikipedia should be split into at least British and American ones.

Cool.  Let's get on that.

mx.wikipedia.org
uk.wikipedia.org

Oh, wait, that second one already exists.   :-P
NY.wikipedia.org and KS.wikipedia.org exist as well... Too bad - I had an Idea...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on November 16, 2018, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Chris on November 16, 2018, 03:32:56 PM
There are two Norwegian wikipedias. Bokmål and Nynorsk. Both are essentially the same language but with some spelling differences.
There is simple.wikipedia.com for the other English as well.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 16, 2018, 03:47:26 PM
Quote from: kalvado on November 16, 2018, 03:34:57 PM
Quote from: Chris on November 16, 2018, 03:32:56 PM
There are two Norwegian wikipedias. Bokmål and Nynorsk. Both are essentially the same language but with some spelling differences.
There is simple.wikipedia.com for the other English as well.

Then of course, there's always this other English:  https://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C4%93afodtramet (https://ang.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C4%93afodtramet)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 22, 2018, 10:01:33 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/22/wool-parish-council-forced-discuss-changing-name-vegan-wool/

Apparently there's a petition to have Wool Parish be renamed.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ErmineNotyours on November 23, 2018, 09:06:57 PM
Adding on to the idea of domestic Canadian flights that must cross into the US, here is a domestic ferry that crosses through US waters. (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0090229,-123.1239632,14z)  In Tsawwassen, BC, the jetty must be built far into the water to reach water deep enough for the boats, and then Swartz Bay and Long Harbour runs almost immediately cross out of Canada.  You can tell on the ride in person, because the border is marked off with orange buoys and a marker on a tower on the hill.

Bonus fact: the city Tsawwassen was chosen as the ferry terminal so that the ticket takers can laugh at non-locals who try to pronounce the name to buy a ticket back to this city.  Not really, but it might as well be.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: oscar on November 23, 2018, 09:23:08 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on November 23, 2018, 09:06:57 PM
Adding on to the idea of domestic Canadian flights that must cross into the US, here is a domestic ferry that crosses through US waters. (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0090229,-123.1239632,14z)  In Tsawwassen, BC, the jetty must be built far into the water to reach water deep enough for the boats, and then Swartz Bay and Long Harbour runs almost immediately cross out of Canada.  You can tell on the ride in person, because the border is marked off with orange buoys and a marker on a tower on the hill.

Two Alaska Marine Highway System ferry routes out of Bellingham WA (both going to southeastern Alaska, one continuing to the Anchorage region and other places in south central Alaska) pass non-stop through Canadian waters. That takes advantage of the sheltered waters of British Columbia's part of the Inside Passage, much shorter and smoother than detouring through open ocean west of Vancouver Island.  No customs checks.

I haven't been on either of those routes (except one segment entirely within Alaska), so I don't know how the maritime border is marked. I have taken AMHS ferries to and from Prince Rupert BC, but I slept through the latest ones, and the others were about a quarter-century ago.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Alps on November 24, 2018, 01:38:21 AM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on November 23, 2018, 09:06:57 PM
Adding on to the idea of domestic Canadian flights that must cross into the US, here is a domestic ferry that crosses through US waters. (https://www.google.com/maps/@49.0090229,-123.1239632,14z)  In Tsawwassen, BC, the jetty must be built far into the water to reach water deep enough for the boats, and then Swartz Bay and Long Harbour runs almost immediately cross out of Canada.  You can tell on the ride in person, because the border is marked off with orange buoys and a marker on a tower on the hill.

Bonus fact: the city Tsawwassen was chosen as the ferry terminal so that the ticket takers can laugh at non-locals who try to pronounce the name to buy a ticket back to this city.  Not really, but it might as well be.
Silent S? Wouldn't have guessed.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on November 24, 2018, 04:31:44 AM
According to Wikipedia, the Tsawwassen Ferry Terminal is in fact the largest one in North America.

They also built a large shopping mall near the ferry terminal a few years ago, the Tsawwassen Mills. It is one of the largest malls in Canada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 24, 2018, 10:38:32 PM
https://uk.style.yahoo.com/6-british-towns-villages-had-063000921.html

Here are some towns in the UK that had to change their name.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on November 25, 2018, 10:39:31 AM
Quote from: bing101 on November 22, 2018, 10:01:33 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/22/wool-parish-council-forced-discuss-changing-name-vegan-wool/

Apparently there's a petition to have Wool Parish be renamed.
Somewhere much more well off and suburban (and thus have bien pensant middle-class attitudes towards 'political correctness gone mad') like Ham (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4356135,-0.3312418,15z?hl=en) would be more likely to actually do it (or Eel Pie Island to the north).

Wool is not the kind of place that would be that fussed about bending over backwards to not offend vegan sensibilities (not that they would be rude, just that they wouldn't go over-the-top by changing the name), and would know that changing the village's name would be offensive to many others in their rural community, especially the sheep farmers.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on November 25, 2018, 12:31:50 PM
Quote from: english si on November 25, 2018, 10:39:31 AM
Quote from: bing101 on November 22, 2018, 10:01:33 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/22/wool-parish-council-forced-discuss-changing-name-vegan-wool/

Apparently there's a petition to have Wool Parish be renamed.
Somewhere much more well off and suburban (and thus have bien pensant middle-class attitudes towards 'political correctness gone mad') like Ham (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4356135,-0.3312418,15z?hl=en) would be more likely to actually do it (or Eel Pie Island to the north).

Wool is not the kind of place that would be that fussed about bending over backwards to not offend vegan sensibilities (not that they would be rude, just that they wouldn't go over-the-top by changing the name), and would know that changing the village's name would be offensive to many others in their rural community, especially the sheep farmers.

There was a similar situation in the town of Slaughterville, Oklahoma, south of Norman on US-77. As a PR stunt, PETA rolled into town in 2004 and offered to buy the town $20,000 worth of veggie burgers if they changed the name to Veggieville. The town declined, seeing as how it was named in honor of a local business owner, James Slaughter, and had never been the site of any appreciable amount of meat production.

Getting fussed about wool seems kind of silly anyway–while it's possible for any industry involving animals to go out of its way to be cruel to them (and this should have course be discouraged), wool production is merely giving sheep haircuts and keeping the leftovers. I imagine most of the people advocating for the change would bat an eye at having their dog groomed!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on November 25, 2018, 12:47:38 PM
They also tried to pay Fishkill, NY to change its name, though again the town declined. The old Dutch word for "creek"  was "kill" , so the town's name effectively translates to "Fish Creek" .
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 25, 2018, 01:47:09 PM
I may have mentioned it before, but Taiwan, formerly known as Formosa, is partly antipodean to the Argentinian province of Formosa. Formosa on the antipodes of Formosa, how great.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on November 25, 2018, 03:59:01 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 25, 2018, 12:47:38 PM
They also tried to pay Fishkill, NY to change its name, though again the town declined. The old Dutch word for "creek"  was "kill" , so the town's name effectively translates to "Fish Creek" .

There are several "kill" names in New York / New Jersey. It is indeed adapted from old Dutch: kille (now kil in Dutch). The Kil is a major (albeit short) river in the Netherlands and has a tunnel: the Kil Tunnel. The Schuylkill Expressway in Philadelphia has a similar etymology (to schuil): it means refuge, shelter or hidden. Perhaps it wasn't a very visible river at the mouth.

The -sch is pronounced very different in Dutch than in English though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on November 25, 2018, 04:35:52 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 25, 2018, 12:47:38 PM
They also tried to pay Fishkill, NY to change its name, though again the town declined. The old Dutch word for "creek"  was "kill" , so the town's name effectively translates to "Fish Creek" .
They could get more support with Catskills, though...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on November 25, 2018, 04:36:41 PM
Quote from: kalvado on November 25, 2018, 04:35:52 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 25, 2018, 12:47:38 PM
They also tried to pay Fishkill, NY to change its name, though again the town declined. The old Dutch word for “creek” was “kill”, so the town’s name effectively translates to “Fish Creek”.
They could get more support with Catskills, though...

But we want to celebrate the skills of the cats!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on November 25, 2018, 06:22:17 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 25, 2018, 04:36:41 PM
Quote from: kalvado on November 25, 2018, 04:35:52 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 25, 2018, 12:47:38 PM
They also tried to pay Fishkill, NY to change its name, though again the town declined. The old Dutch word for "creek"  was "kill" , so the town's name effectively translates to "Fish Creek" .
They could get more support with Catskills, though...

But we want to celebrate the skills of the cats!
Or celebrate the kills of cats - who needs all those rodents?

Which reminds me of a recent topic of conversation with my (slightly weird) brother.  Why don't the cat food companies make rodent-flavor bits?  Wouldn't the cats just love it?

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on November 25, 2018, 07:09:50 PM
I've mentioned often that I worked with Malcolm "Mac" Kilduff, the assistant presidential press secretary who announced JFK's death and recorded LBJ's swearing in.

He was a Staten Island native, but said that the name Kilduff was a geographical derivative of the surname Duff. This particular group of Duffs lived by a kil, hence Kilduff. He always said he and the principal of a high school in an adjoining county whose last name was Duff could probably trace their ancestry to a common source.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: abefroman329 on November 25, 2018, 07:15:12 PM
Every so often, there's an effort to rename Downers Grove (IL) to something more uplifting.

It was named for its founder, Pierce Downer.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on November 25, 2018, 07:41:05 PM
Quote from: english si on November 25, 2018, 10:39:31 AM
Quote from: bing101 on November 22, 2018, 10:01:33 PM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/22/wool-parish-council-forced-discuss-changing-name-vegan-wool/

Apparently there's a petition to have Wool Parish be renamed.
Somewhere much more well off and suburban (and thus have bien pensant middle-class attitudes towards 'political correctness gone mad') like Ham (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4356135,-0.3312418,15z?hl=en) would be more likely to actually do it (or Eel Pie Island to the north).

Wool is not the kind of place that would be that fussed about bending over backwards to not offend vegan sensibilities (not that they would be rude, just that they wouldn't go over-the-top by changing the name), and would know that changing the village's name would be offensive to many others in their rural community, especially the sheep farmers.

The two folks who I've seen use that French loan-word, "bien pensant," both have British backgrounds. Is it more common to use French loanwords across the pond than in the US?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on November 25, 2018, 07:42:36 PM
Quote from: bing101 on November 24, 2018, 10:38:32 PM
https://uk.style.yahoo.com/6-british-towns-villages-had-063000921.html

Here are some towns in the UK that had to change their name.

This was worth clicking on for the Welsh signage.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on November 25, 2018, 08:46:35 PM
PETA = PITA.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on November 26, 2018, 12:18:11 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 25, 2018, 01:47:09 PM
I may have mentioned it before, but Taiwan, formerly known as Formosa, is partly antipodean to the Argentinian province of Formosa. Formosa on the antipodes of Formosa, how great.
If this is true, this is a good one.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 26, 2018, 04:00:44 AM
It is. These days I double check all things due to all those fake news, however I already knew this fact for a long while now. Most of Taiwan's antipodes are in Paraguay, but the Northwestern section of Formosa island, including the capital Taibei, is in fact antipodean to Formosa province in Argentina.
(https://fronterasblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/formosas.jpg)

Source for the map and the fact (https://fronterasblog.com/2010/11/16/formosa-en-las-antipodas-de-formosa/) (In Spanish).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on November 26, 2018, 02:22:07 PM
Quote from: jon daly on November 25, 2018, 07:41:05 PMThe two folks who I've seen use that French loan-word, "bien pensant," both have British backgrounds. Is it more common to use French loanwords across the pond than in the US?
Yes. For the same reason why we Brits spell it colour, meat terms are in French-origin (compare animal names which are Germanic-origin), and the civil service would prefer the UK as a continental colony than run an independent nation - the long-standing love affair of the English chattering classes with France that dates from 1066 when the entire chattering classes were replaced (with the existing) with French-speakers.

Thus, chattering class stuff like how to spell things (we even added French-style spellings to words that weren't of French origin), or political/cultural concepts, are often in French if the French had a term for it / the word came from there.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:28:55 PM
Quote from: english si on November 26, 2018, 02:22:07 PM
Quote from: jon daly on November 25, 2018, 07:41:05 PMThe two folks who I've seen use that French loan-word, "bien pensant," both have British backgrounds. Is it more common to use French loanwords across the pond than in the US?
Yes. For the same reason why we Brits spell it colour, meat terms are in French-origin (compare animal names which are Germanic-origin), and the civil service would prefer the UK as a continental colony than run an independent nation - the long-standing love affair of the English chattering classes with France that dates from 1066 when the entire chattering classes were replaced (with the existing) with French-speakers.

Thus, chattering class stuff like how to spell things (we even added French-style spellings to words that weren't of French origin), or political/cultural concepts, are often in French if the French had a term for it / the word came from there.

I've always thought it ironic that the British and the French are supposed to hate each other, yet the British are so fond of using French words.  It has also always interested me that the British pronounce some French words better than we Americans do, but some others worse than we do.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on November 26, 2018, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:28:55 PMI've always thought it ironic that the British and the French are supposed to hate each other
It's more the long-termness of it all. And with the plebian classes, its more about dislike of upper classes (who were once French) than anything against the Frogs themselves. TV Tropes accurately describes the relationship as Vitriolic Best Buds (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VitriolicBestBuds/RealLife) and, within that, as an Old Married Couple.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 05:31:08 PM
Quote from: english si on November 26, 2018, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:28:55 PMI've always thought it ironic that the British and the French are supposed to hate each other
It's more the long-termness of it all. And with the plebian classes, its more about dislike of upper classes (who were once French) than anything against the Frogs themselves. TV Tropes accurately describes the relationship as Vitriolic Best Buds (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VitriolicBestBuds/RealLife) and, within that, as an Old Married Couple.

I just remember, when we were on vacation in Paris back in the 90s, several of the people there snubbed us–till they learned we were Americans and not Brits.  Then they were as friendly as could be.  I wonder if that situation has reversed at all, what with it being sort of popular these days to hate America.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: abefroman329 on November 26, 2018, 05:36:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 05:31:08 PM
Quote from: english si on November 26, 2018, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 02:28:55 PMI've always thought it ironic that the British and the French are supposed to hate each other
It's more the long-termness of it all. And with the plebian classes, its more about dislike of upper classes (who were once French) than anything against the Frogs themselves. TV Tropes accurately describes the relationship as Vitriolic Best Buds (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VitriolicBestBuds/RealLife) and, within that, as an Old Married Couple.

I just remember, when we were on vacation in Paris back in the 90s, several of the people there snubbed us–till they learned we were Americans and not Brits.  Then they were as friendly as could be.  I wonder if that situation has reversed at all, what with it being sort of popular these days to hate America.
I find it a little surprising that the average French person couldn't distinguish between a "British" accent and an American one.

The frostiest reception I've ever gotten in Europe was shortly before the invasion of Iraq in 2003 - and that includes my trip to England in late November 2016 (which might have been the nicest I've ever been treated as an American, oddly enough).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on November 26, 2018, 08:20:25 PM
Quote from: english si on November 26, 2018, 02:22:07 PM
Quote from: jon daly on November 25, 2018, 07:41:05 PMThe two folks who I've seen use that French loan-word, "bien pensant," both have British backgrounds. Is it more common to use French loanwords across the pond than in the US?
Yes. For the same reason why we Brits spell it colour, meat terms are in French-origin (compare animal names which are Germanic-origin), and the civil service would prefer the UK as a continental colony than run an independent nation - the long-standing love affair of the English chattering classes with France that dates from 1066 when the entire chattering classes were replaced (with the existing) with French-speakers.

Thus, chattering class stuff like how to spell things (we even added French-style spellings to words that weren't of French origin), or political/cultural concepts, are often in French if the French had a term for it / the word came from there.

Thanks. Could you do me a favour and let me ask you what that flag is in your avatar. I see St. Andrew's cross and (I think) St. Patrick's cross. But I don't see St. George's cross and am not sure what the green is for below the centre of the flag.

I like the phrase bien pensant. It is a refreshing alternative to PC, if I understand the phrase correctly.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on November 27, 2018, 12:31:17 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 26, 2018, 04:00:44 AM
It is. These days I double check all things due to all those fake news, however I already knew this fact for a long while now. Most of Taiwan's antipodes are in Paraguay, but the Northwestern section of Formosa island, including the capital Taibei, is in fact antipodean to Formosa province in Argentina.

Your use of "Taibei" brings up another interesting thing: place names and how they are translated (or transliterated/Romanized) into English and other languages.

I can't speak for Taiwan's situation, but in South Korea the Romanization system was revised in 2000 and created new spellings for various cities. Pusan became Busan and Inchon/Inch'ŏn is now Incheon.

China switched their system to Pinyin in 1979, so Peking became Beijing, Sian became Xian, etc. Several Chinese cities have also lost their western names in favor of traditional names, e.g. Canton City in Canton Province is now Guangzhou in Guangdong Province.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on November 27, 2018, 04:22:38 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 26, 2018, 05:31:08 PMI just remember, when we were on vacation in Paris back in the 90s, several of the people there snubbed us
That's Paris - they do it with the country bumpkins from France too.
Quotetill they learned we were Americans and not Brits.  Then they were as friendly as could be.
That's not friendliness towards the US, but expectation - Parisians expect British tourists to speak French, but set the bar lower for Americans.

My South African/Rhodesian neighbour (lived in the UK all his adult life), when in Paris, speaks Afrikaans to natives, and then they 'stumble' upon English as a shared language.
QuoteI wonder if that situation has reversed at all, what with it being sort of popular these days to hate America.
Macron is certainly trying to boost his dismal approval ratings by attacking the US. However, it's not working.

I read the other day that the Yank-bashing of the French is as the USA is the king, and thus needs its head cut off.
Quote from: jon daly on November 26, 2018, 08:20:25 PMThanks. Could you do me a favour and let me ask you what that flag is in your avatar. I see St. Andrew's cross and (I think) St. Patrick's cross. But I don't see St. George's cross and am not sure what the green is for below the centre of the flag.
You have your Andrew and George mixed up. Ditch the jocks - I made it around the time of the Scottish referendum and I was sick to my high teeth with them. I'm now less for Scottish Independence, though still support helping them leave to make their own mistakes. The Green is from the Welsh flag. The dragon I made smaller and put where the crosses intersect (the common joke about Wales not being on the UK flag).

I've made a better one with the crosses of David, George and Piran (so no Irish - which will be the case if the Irish President's and British Prime Minister's violations of the Good Friday agreement get approved by Parliament. The 'we keep the peace in Europe' EU have already approved this peace-breaking agreement as they want to annex, Crimea-like, Northern Ireland or gain the whole UK as a colony), but haven't been bothered to upload it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on November 27, 2018, 09:00:43 AM
Sorry about that, si. I got my flags mixed up.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: abefroman329 on November 27, 2018, 09:13:01 AM
Quote from: english si on November 27, 2018, 04:22:38 AMI've made a better one with the crosses of David, George and Piran (so no Irish - which will be the case if the Irish President's and British Prime Minister's violations of the Good Friday agreement get approved by Parliament. The 'we keep the peace in Europe' EU have already approved this peace-breaking agreement as they want to annex, Crimea-like, Northern Ireland or gain the whole UK as a colony), but haven't been bothered to upload it.
Maybe I'm not following you, but I thought the most recent Brexit deal meant that there would NOT be border checks for travelers traveling between ROI and the UK?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 11, 2018, 08:32:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNUomfuWuA8
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on December 12, 2018, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 27, 2018, 09:13:01 AMMaybe I'm not following you, but I thought the most recent Brexit deal meant that there would NOT be border checks for travelers traveling between ROI and the UK?
Border checks for travellers travelling between RoI and the UK have nothing to do with EU membership or Brexit. The Common Travel Area dates from 1923 (pre-dating, and nothing to do with, the Treaty of Rome).

The problem is the customs border between GB and NI (or as the EU terms them 'UK' and 'UK-NI') created by the Withdrawal Agreement. Unlike a border between NI and RoI, it is a direct violation of the Good Friday Agreement to not accept that NI is fully part of the UK. NI is able to diverge from GB (even fully, subject to a referendum), but only with the consent of the NI Assembly. The consent has not, and will not, be given as both communities have to consent, and the Unionist plurality (40-39, with 11 other) will not consent to what they see as a break up of the United Kingdom.

Lord Trimble, who co-authored the GFA and won a Noble Peace Prize for it, says: It is clear to me that the Irish side in the Brexit negotiations is undermining the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, riding roughshod over its terms and violating its spirit. As this research note by Policy Exchange observes, there is a genuine risk that Northern Ireland will end up as part of an effective EU protectorate, without the say-so of the Northern Ireland Assembly. This would be an appalling breach of the principle of consent, which runs through the Agreement. (https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/The-Irish-border-and-the-principle-of-consent.pdf)

Oh, and currently (and illegally under EU law while the UK is still a member state due to the Common Fisheries Policy) the Irish Government has banned Northern Irish vessels from fishing in its waters - it's basically the sort of hard border that they supposedly see as a violation of peace. If there's a hard Brexit, the Irish Government, who supposedly represent the people who'll lose most from it (as they, unlike the UK, won't be able to make trade deals with the 80% of the world economy outside the EU's protectionist racket, in order to mitigate the loss of a major trading partner), and their hard line will be a major factor in why it happened - they and the EU 'having their interests' have basically told the UK that either the whole country is now an EU colony, or the EU annexes Northern Ireland. And the House of Commons refuses to accept that the EU's deal is in any way acceptable because of precisely that.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Brandon on December 13, 2018, 09:21:06 AM
Quote from: english si on December 12, 2018, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on November 27, 2018, 09:13:01 AMMaybe I'm not following you, but I thought the most recent Brexit deal meant that there would NOT be border checks for travelers traveling between ROI and the UK?
Border checks for travellers travelling between RoI and the UK have nothing to do with EU membership or Brexit. The Common Travel Area dates from 1923 (pre-dating, and nothing to do with, the Treaty of Rome).

The problem is the customs border between GB and NI (or as the EU terms them 'UK' and 'UK-NI') created by the Withdrawal Agreement. Unlike a border between NI and RoI, it is a direct violation of the Good Friday Agreement to not accept that NI is fully part of the UK. NI is able to diverge from GB (even fully, subject to a referendum), but only with the consent of the NI Assembly. The consent has not, and will not, be given as both communities have to consent, and the Unionist plurality (40-39, with 11 other) will not consent to what they see as a break up of the United Kingdom.

Lord Trimble, who co-authored the GFA and won a Noble Peace Prize for it, says: It is clear to me that the Irish side in the Brexit negotiations is undermining the 1998 Good Friday Agreement, riding roughshod over its terms and violating its spirit. As this research note by Policy Exchange observes, there is a genuine risk that Northern Ireland will end up as part of an effective EU protectorate, without the say-so of the Northern Ireland Assembly. This would be an appalling breach of the principle of consent, which runs through the Agreement. (https://policyexchange.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/The-Irish-border-and-the-principle-of-consent.pdf)

Oh, and currently (and illegally under EU law while the UK is still a member state due to the Common Fisheries Policy) the Irish Government has banned Northern Irish vessels from fishing in its waters - it's basically the sort of hard border that they supposedly see as a violation of peace. If there's a hard Brexit, the Irish Government, who supposedly represent the people who'll lose most from it (as they, unlike the UK, won't be able to make trade deals with the 80% of the world economy outside the EU's protectionist racket, in order to mitigate the loss of a major trading partner), and their hard line will be a major factor in why it happened - they and the EU 'having their interests' have basically told the UK that either the whole country is now an EU colony, or the EU annexes Northern Ireland. And the House of Commons refuses to accept that the EU's deal is in any way acceptable because of precisely that.

Sounds like quite the clusterfuck and an opened can of worms.  Would it have been better if the "stay" side had won?  Or is this a better option, to get all this stuff out in the open?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on December 13, 2018, 12:22:50 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 13, 2018, 09:21:06 AMWould it have been better if the "stay" side had won?
The Irish border wouldn't have been an issue. Nor would the EU's desire to punish the UK as heretics, because we voted to leave - but that's the same issue - the entire reason why there would be a non-soft border between Ireland and the UK (there's already a border on the island of Ireland, and the Swiss-EU border, for example, is really very soft despite Switzerland being non-EU, not in the Single Market or Customs Union, etc) is because the EU needed a way to undermine the UK as a warning to others who might want to leave the Empire.

But the issues that lead to a referendum, and a Leave win wouldn't have been addressed, and the EU would have seen a Remain win erroneously as public support in the UK to move faster with 'ever closer union', so the issues the UK public has with the EU would have been added to and increased.
QuoteOr is this a better option, to get all this stuff out in the open?
Everyone is sick of it, but it's a bit like we've lanced a boil and its just taking a lot of time to clean up the mess from that - which was there all along, just kept trapped, getting worse. The country is bitterly divided, and has been for a good 30+ years, but we've only really talked about it the last 3. It still needs more time, but we're not letting it fester anymore, nor are we having to resort to destruction rather than dialogue in order to be heard.

If it weren't for the referendum, Nigel Farage would still be a thing, rather than a soon-to-be has-been that he'll be if the UK leaves without a deal. If the mainstream parties hadn't offered referenda to the electorate on the EU since 2005 (Labour renegaded and the Lib-Dem/Conservative coalition agreement 'strangely' dropped various anti-establishment stuff that was in both parties manifestos), Farage would have been in Government at some point, much to the UK's detriment.

The UK is one of just a handful of countries in Europe without 'far-right' parties polling highly now and that is entirely due to the referendum releasing that pressure. Austria and France had run off presidential elections between literal fascists and the eventual winner (in Austria they needed to redo it due to illegal spending by the non-fascist's campaign which won by less than 1%) - with the fascists having been the most popular candidate in the first round. Sweden's Government has struggled to have any political capital, with no confidence votes against it being successful, but then new Governments failing to get enough votes to be elected by Parliament - the two main blocks have 40% of the seats each, while the populist Swedish Democrats hold the rest, and neither block want to appeal to the SDs. Italy has a Government of the 'nationalist' League (slogan: 'Italians first') and populist MS5 - which means they aren't in Brussels' good books (and another Italian technocratic-coup is brewing) and so are being told they can't do what EU-nationalist (slogan: 'Europe first') Macron is set to do and breaking Eurozone budgetary rules to ease political tensions by buying off the populous.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 06, 2019, 12:28:25 PM
New England (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_(medieval)) may have been at one point on the North coast of Black Sea. If this is true, Georgia wouldn't have been the only toponym to appear in both the USA and the former Soviet Union...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on January 24, 2019, 08:27:19 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_Village,_Maryland#cite_note-NYCquickfacts-6


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM9_MbaEoY4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density
Friendship Village, Maryland has a density bigger than Manhattan
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 25, 2019, 09:10:54 AM
You would never expect to find a city with the name of a President in... Iran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft,_Iran). That country has also at least (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit-e_Kamarzard) three (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit,_Mazandaran) villages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit,_Zanjan) named Shit.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 25, 2019, 02:34:50 PM
Atlanta is farther west than Detroit.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on January 25, 2019, 04:24:31 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on January 25, 2019, 09:10:54 AM
You would never expect to find a city with the name of a President in... Iran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft,_Iran). That country has also at least (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit-e_Kamarzard) three (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit,_Mazandaran) villages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit,_Zanjan) named Shit.
Austria also has a village called fucking.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 25, 2019, 04:27:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 25, 2019, 04:24:31 PM

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on January 25, 2019, 09:10:54 AM
You would never expect to find a city with the name of a President in... Iran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft,_Iran). That country has also at least (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit-e_Kamarzard) three (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit,_Mazandaran) villages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit,_Zanjan) named Shit.

Austria also has a village called fucking.

And there's a thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=398.msg52081#msg52081) for that (and both of those are in there).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on January 27, 2019, 02:31:16 PM
People don't think of Pennsylvania as a coastal state in the literal sense for the most part, but technically it is because the Delaware River estuary is at sea level up to at least Philadelphia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MantyMadTown on January 27, 2019, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on January 27, 2019, 02:31:16 PM
People don't think of Pennsylvania as a coastal state in the literal sense for the most part, but technically it is because the Delaware River estuary is at sea level up to at least Philadelphia.

Well people think of Philadelphia as an east coast city despite not literally being on the coast.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kevinb1994 on January 27, 2019, 04:08:01 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on January 27, 2019, 02:31:16 PM
People don't think of Pennsylvania as a coastal state in the literal sense for the most part, but technically it is because the Delaware River estuary is at sea level up to at least Philadelphia.

It is at sea level up until The Falls of the Delaware at Morrisville, PA and Trenton, NJ.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ErmineNotyours on January 27, 2019, 10:54:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 25, 2019, 02:34:50 PM
Atlanta is farther west than Detroit.

The Atlanta Braves used to be in the National League West, even though the Chicago Cubs, further west and in the Central Time Zone, were in the National League East.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on January 27, 2019, 11:04:40 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on January 27, 2019, 10:54:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 25, 2019, 02:34:50 PM
Atlanta is farther west than Detroit.

The Atlanta Braves used to be in the National League West, even though the Chicago Cubs, further west and in the Central Time Zone, were in the National League East.
For a more extreme example, the Carolina Panthers were in the NFC West while the Arizona Cardinals were in the NFC East.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: oscar on January 27, 2019, 11:59:18 PM
Quote from: Big John on January 27, 2019, 11:04:40 PM
For a more extreme example, the Carolina Panthers were in the NFC West while the Arizona Cardinals were in the NFC East.

Indeed, the Atlanta Falcons and the New Orleans Saints also were in the NFC West, which made that division really the NFC Southeast. That got fixed with realignment, when the Panthers, Falcons, and Saints became (along with NFC Central team Tampa Bay Buccaneers) the new NFC South. The Cardinals were moved (screaming and kicking, IIRC) to the NFC West, as partial offset to its loss of the three now-NFC South teams.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: qguy on January 28, 2019, 06:33:19 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on January 27, 2019, 04:08:01 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on January 27, 2019, 02:31:16 PM
People don't think of Pennsylvania as a coastal state in the literal sense for the most part, but technically it is because the Delaware River estuary is at sea level up to at least Philadelphia.
It is at sea level up until The Falls of the Delaware at Morrisville, PA and Trenton, NJ.

The Schuylkill River is tidal (basicly sea level) up to Fairmount Dam and the Fairmount Water Works, behind the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Originally it was tidal up to what is now the East Falls neighborhood (where the US 1 expressway crosses the river on twin high-level bridges), until the Fairmount Dam was built in 1822.

The Pennypack Creek, a tributary of the Delaware River in northeast Philadelphia, is tidal to Frankford Avenue (US 13), AKA the King's Highway, which crosses the creek on the oldest continually used bridge in America (over 300 years old).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on January 28, 2019, 09:22:52 AM
Quote from: Big John on January 27, 2019, 11:04:40 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on January 27, 2019, 10:54:12 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 25, 2019, 02:34:50 PM
Atlanta is farther west than Detroit.

The Atlanta Braves used to be in the National League West, even though the Chicago Cubs, further west and in the Central Time Zone, were in the National League East.
For a more extreme example, the Carolina Panthers were in the NFC West while the Arizona Cardinals were in the NFC East.

Baseball.  When baseball went to divisions, the teams owned 99% of their TV and 100% of their radio rights.  And, with 12 teams per league, this meant each team played 3 3 game series at each division foe and only 2 3 game series against the other division.   The Cubs (big market) and Cardinals (Budweiser) demanded to be in the East, and pushed the Reds (small market) and Braves (new team with a very weak following at the time) to the West, meaning they had to play 9 more games at San Diego, LA, and SF, starting at 10 local and valueless for local TV and radio. 

Football.  When the NFL and AFL merged, Dallas, about which it has been said is the only place in Texas that cares what people in NYC think of it, wanted to be in the east.  The AFC (old AFL plus 3 cast off NFL teams) easily divided into geographically logical divisions.  The NFC argued for months, finally resorting to a blind draw.  The plan with Dallas in the east and NO and ATL in the west got drawn.  A good alt history can be made of the NFC with logical divisions.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 28, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
Quote from: qguy on January 28, 2019, 06:33:19 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on January 27, 2019, 04:08:01 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on January 27, 2019, 02:31:16 PM
People don't think of Pennsylvania as a coastal state in the literal sense for the most part, but technically it is because the Delaware River estuary is at sea level up to at least Philadelphia.
It is at sea level up until The Falls of the Delaware at Morrisville, PA and Trenton, NJ.

The Schuylkill River is tidal (basicly sea level) up to Fairmount Dam and the Fairmount Water Works, behind the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Originally it was tidal up to what is now the East Falls neighborhood (where the US 1 expressway crosses the river on twin high-level bridges), until the Fairmount Dam was built in 1822.

The Pennypack Creek, a tributary of the Delaware River in northeast Philadelphia, is tidal to Frankford Avenue (US 13), AKA the King's Highway, which crosses the creek on the oldest continually used bridge in America (over 300 years old).

And of course the Hudson is tidal all the way up to Troy. We were in Poughkeepsie yesterday and enjoyed watching the pack ice appearing to "flow" upriver as it was being carried by the flood tide.

I assume that's the farthest tidal reach on a U.S. river, but I haven't looked it up. And in Canada, I'm sure the St. Lawrence has tides even farther up its course.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Ben114 on January 28, 2019, 10:55:02 AM
New York stretches from West Virginia to Rhode Island.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on January 28, 2019, 10:56:04 AM
Quote from: Ben114 on January 28, 2019, 10:55:02 AM
New York stretches from West Virginia to Rhode Island.

I don't understand. New York does not border West Virginia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Takumi on January 28, 2019, 11:05:11 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 28, 2019, 10:56:04 AM
Quote from: Ben114 on January 28, 2019, 10:55:02 AM
New York stretches from West Virginia to Rhode Island.

I don't understand. New York does not border West Virginia.

I think he means longitudinally. It doesn't have any land borders with Rhode Island either, obviously.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on January 28, 2019, 01:10:00 PM
NY does have a sea border with RI, though.  WV doesn't come close.

I think the fact that Long Island goes far enough that the eastern end is under RI is probably more surprising than western NY being due north of eastern WV.  The latter is probably expected, in fact (especially given I-79).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on January 28, 2019, 04:28:35 PM
I grew up with a 1987 Rand McNally road atlas my grandfather gave me. Maine is on a single page, for a long time I thought Maine was similar in size, or only slightly larger than the other individual New England states. The top of Maine was displayed on an inset on a smaller scale, reinforcing the idea that Maine wasn't so big. Maine stretches almost 320 miles at its maximum extent, similar to that of Pennsylvania from the northwest to the Delaware River.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Buck87 on January 28, 2019, 04:55:21 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on January 28, 2019, 09:22:52 AM
When the NFL and AFL merged, Dallas, about which it has been said is the only place in Texas that cares what people in NYC think of it, wanted to be in the east.  The AFC (old AFL plus 3 cast off NFL teams) easily divided into geographically logical divisions.  The NFC argued for months, finally resorting to a blind draw.  The plan with Dallas in the east and NO and ATL in the west got drawn.  A good alt history can be made of the NFC with logical divisions.

Though it's worth mentioning that geographically screwy divisions in the NFL go back much further than the 1970 merger.

When the NFL first split into divisions in 1933, it made geographic sense that Green Bay, both Chicago teams and Portsmouth (soon to be Detroit) were in the west.  The Cleveland Rams joining the west also made sense, and then made even more sense when they moved to LA in 1946 (as did the placement other short lived expansion teams and merged teams in this era).

There was a brief period after the 1950 NFL-AAFC merger where East and West divisions were renamed American and National conferences. However, in 1953 they were renamed the Eastern and Western conferences....and did not make much geographic sense at all. Baltimore was in the West with LA, SF, GB, DET and CHI Bears while the CHI Cardinals were in the East, and stayed there despite moving to St. Louis. The Cowboys joined the West for all of one season in 1960,then moved to the East the next year when the Vikings joined the West.

Then came the 4 division setup in the late 60s after ATL and NO joined, which had the bizarre Coastal Division with ATL, BAL, LA & SF, the Central which exactly resembled the current NFC North, the Century which for one of its years resembled the current NFC East but for the other years had NO instead of NYG, and the Century division with the CLE, PIT, STL and NYG/NO. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Ben114 on January 28, 2019, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 28, 2019, 01:10:00 PM
NY does have a sea border with RI, though.  WV doesn't come close.

I think the fact that Long Island goes far enough that the eastern end is under RI is probably more surprising than western NY being due north of eastern WV.  The latter is probably expected, in fact (especially given I-79).
Buffalo is directly north of West Virginia, and the Montauk Lighthouse is directly south of Napatree Point (westernmost point of Rhode Island, southwest of Westerly)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on January 28, 2019, 08:31:02 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
And of course the Hudson is tidal all the way up to Troy. We were in Poughkeepsie yesterday and enjoyed watching the pack ice appearing to "flow" upriver as it was being carried by the flood tide.

I assume that's the farthest tidal reach on a U.S. river, but I haven't looked it up. And in Canada, I'm sure the St. Lawrence has tides even farther up its course.

The Hudson is the longest (barely) at 153 miles from the ocean. The Columbia is tidal to 146 miles from the ocean.

The St. Lawrence, on the other hand, is tidal up to Quebec City, which is 700 km (430 mi).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on January 28, 2019, 09:32:58 PM
Quote from: Ben114 on January 28, 2019, 06:06:59 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 28, 2019, 01:10:00 PM
NY does have a sea border with RI, though.  WV doesn't come close.

I think the fact that Long Island goes far enough that the eastern end is under RI is probably more surprising than western NY being due north of eastern WV.  The latter is probably expected, in fact (especially given I-79).
Buffalo is directly north of West Virginia, and the Montauk Lighthouse is directly south of Napatree Point (westernmost point of Rhode Island, southwest of Westerly)
Sure, in the same sense that Canada is north of Mexico, but one wouldn't usually say a state goes from X to Y unless it directly borders both X and Y.  NY does, however, have an actual border with RI, just not over land.

Also, as I mentioned more subtly earlier, the fact that parts of NY are north of parts of WV is not in any way, shape, or form surprising.  I-79's northern end is in Erie, PA, just 20-25 miles from the NY line, and it then proceeds due south through PA to WV - and WV has the entire eastern half of the state and panhandle east of I-79.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on January 28, 2019, 09:52:15 PM
Quote from: Chris on January 28, 2019, 04:28:35 PM
I grew up with a 1987 Rand McNally road atlas my grandfather gave me. Maine is on a single page, for a long time I thought Maine was similar in size, or only slightly larger than the other individual New England states. The top of Maine was displayed on an inset on a smaller scale, reinforcing the idea that Maine wasn't so big. Maine stretches almost 320 miles at its maximum extent, similar to that of Pennsylvania from the northwest to the Delaware River.

US 1 in Maine (526.05 mi) is only 19 miles shorter than US 1 in Florida (545.03 mi). If not for the Overseas Highway along the Keys (about 110 miles), Florida would be a distant 2nd place to Maine.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 29, 2019, 08:18:30 AM
Quote from: Ben114 on January 28, 2019, 10:55:02 AM
New York stretches from West Virginia to Rhode Island.

This, and...
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 04, 2018, 03:42:57 PMThe state of New York, for example, lies entirely to the east of Florida.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on January 29, 2019, 12:59:04 PM
Yeah, the bend in the coast makes for some interesting counter-intuitive facts.  Florida being entirely west of NY is certainly less intuitive than WV not being entirely west of NY (WV's position to NY is, in fact, exactly what I would have expected, but then again, I live here; RI being not entirely east of NY was certainly counter-intuitive when I first heard it, though).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on January 30, 2019, 03:04:27 PM
Quote from: cl94 on January 28, 2019, 08:31:02 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
And of course the Hudson is tidal all the way up to Troy. We were in Poughkeepsie yesterday and enjoyed watching the pack ice appearing to "flow" upriver as it was being carried by the flood tide.

I assume that's the farthest tidal reach on a U.S. river, but I haven't looked it up. And in Canada, I'm sure the St. Lawrence has tides even farther up its course.

The Hudson is the longest (barely) at 153 miles from the ocean. The Columbia is tidal to 146 miles from the ocean.

The St. Lawrence, on the other hand, is tidal up to Quebec City, which is 700 km (430 mi).

Is there a good list of how tidal various rivers are? Also, is there somewhere that mentions how far up that they are saline enough to support sea life?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cl94 on January 30, 2019, 03:18:07 PM
Quote from: jon daly on January 30, 2019, 03:04:27 PM
Is there a good list of how tidal various rivers are? Also, is there somewhere that mentions how far up that they are saline enough to support sea life?

I wish. As far as the Hudson, it's only saline enough for sea life up to Tappan Zee, if that. Salt point generally lies somewhere between the Newburgh-Beacon Bridge and Poughkeepsie railroad bridge. There is a variety of interesting brackish life up to Albany, as well as an assortment of species that live in saline and breed in fresh. These include the endangered Atlantic Sturgeon, which lives in the ocean but breeds in fresh water. The sturgeon is the largest animal that regularly appears in the Hudson and can be seen as far north as Albany when breeding.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 30, 2019, 04:10:53 PM
Quote from: jon daly on January 30, 2019, 03:04:27 PM
Quote from: cl94 on January 28, 2019, 08:31:02 PM
Quote from: empirestate on January 28, 2019, 10:45:13 AM
And of course the Hudson is tidal all the way up to Troy. We were in Poughkeepsie yesterday and enjoyed watching the pack ice appearing to "flow" upriver as it was being carried by the flood tide.

I assume that's the farthest tidal reach on a U.S. river, but I haven't looked it up. And in Canada, I'm sure the St. Lawrence has tides even farther up its course.

The Hudson is the longest (barely) at 153 miles from the ocean. The Columbia is tidal to 146 miles from the ocean.

The St. Lawrence, on the other hand, is tidal up to Quebec City, which is 700 km (430 mi).

Is there a good list of how tidal various rivers are? Also, is there somewhere that mentions how far up that they are saline enough to support sea life?

This might be a good jumping-off point: https://coast.noaa.gov/nerrs/
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on January 30, 2019, 09:11:12 PM
Thanks, guys.

moto e5 play

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on February 10, 2019, 08:15:47 AM
Every county in the Texas Panhandle has a "four corners"  connection with adjacent Texas counties, with the exception of the row of counties at the panhandle's base.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ipeters61 on February 10, 2019, 12:12:42 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the city limits of Anchorage Alaska (1963 sq mi) are larger than the entire state of Rhode Island (1212 sq mi) and approximately the size of the entire state of Delaware (1981 sq mi).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on February 10, 2019, 03:17:50 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on February 10, 2019, 12:12:42 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the city limits of Anchorage Alaska (1963 sq mi) are larger than the entire state of Rhode Island (1212 sq mi) and approximately the size of the entire state of Delaware (1981 sq mi).
And I wonder how they plow that entire area after the snowfall...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: oscar on February 10, 2019, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2019, 03:17:50 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on February 10, 2019, 12:12:42 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the city limits of Anchorage Alaska (1963 sq mi) are larger than the entire state of Rhode Island (1212 sq mi) and approximately the size of the entire state of Delaware (1981 sq mi).
And I wonder how they plow that entire area after the snowfall...

The City of Anchorage used to be much smaller. It consolidated with the former Greater Anchorage Area Borough, which swept into the new Anchorage Municipality several outlying communities that are not separately incorporated, and a lot of uninhabited mountains. The city limits thus encompass a lot of empty territory that has to go somewhere, and doesn't really belong in a neighboring borough like Kenai Peninsula or Matanuska-Susitna.

Alaska has other consolidated city-boroughs that are far larger in land area than Anchorage Municipality. The largest one is Yakutat city-borough, with more than ten times as many square miles within its boundaries (7,650) as residents (662). The Juneau, Sitka, Haines, and Wrangell city-boroughs also are larger than Anchorage.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MantyMadTown on February 10, 2019, 05:58:05 PM
Quote from: oscar on February 10, 2019, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2019, 03:17:50 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on February 10, 2019, 12:12:42 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the city limits of Anchorage Alaska (1963 sq mi) are larger than the entire state of Rhode Island (1212 sq mi) and approximately the size of the entire state of Delaware (1981 sq mi).
And I wonder how they plow that entire area after the snowfall...

The City of Anchorage used to be much smaller. It consolidated with the former Greater Anchorage Area Borough, which swept into the new Anchorage Municipality several outlying communities that are not separately incorporated, and a lot of uninhabited mountains. The city limits thus encompass a lot of empty territory that has to go somewhere, and doesn't really belong in a neighboring borough like Kenai Peninsula or Matanuska-Susitna.

Alaska has other consolidated city-boroughs that are far larger in land area than Anchorage Municipality. The largest one is Yakutat city-borough, with more than ten times as many square miles within its boundaries (7,650) as residents (662). The Juneau, Sitka, Haines, and Wrangell city-boroughs also are larger than Anchorage.

If I remember correctly, those consolidated city-boroughs are larger in land area than any other city in the United States. Jacksonville is the largest city by land area in the United States after the consolidated city-boroughs in Alaska, with a land area of 747 sq mi.

Also Dane County is larger than Rhode Island. Talk about how small Rhode Island is.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 10, 2019, 06:07:15 PM
It takes less time to drive from Pensacola to Columbus, Ohio than Key West.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MantyMadTown on February 10, 2019, 11:58:34 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 10, 2019, 06:07:15 PM
It takes less time to drive from Pensacola to Columbus, Ohio than Key West.

That reminds me of how on I-10 in Texas it's faster to drive to either side of the country than to the other side of Texas. If you're in El Paso, it takes less time to drive to San Diego than it does to drive to the other side of Texas in Orange. Likewise, if you're in Orange, TX, it takes less time to drive to Jacksonville, FL than it does to El Paso.

Also at the far northern end of California, it is faster to drive the Canadian border than to San Diego.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: qguy on February 11, 2019, 06:17:31 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on February 10, 2019, 05:58:05 PM
Quote from: oscar on February 10, 2019, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2019, 03:17:50 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on February 10, 2019, 12:12:42 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the city limits of Anchorage Alaska (1963 sq mi) are larger than the entire state of Rhode Island (1212 sq mi) and approximately the size of the entire state of Delaware (1981 sq mi).
And I wonder how they plow that entire area after the snowfall...
The City of Anchorage used to be much smaller. It consolidated with the former Greater Anchorage Area Borough, which swept into the new Anchorage Municipality several outlying communities that are not separately incorporated, and a lot of uninhabited mountains. The city limits thus encompass a lot of empty territory that has to go somewhere, and doesn't really belong in a neighboring borough like Kenai Peninsula or Matanuska-Susitna.

Alaska has other consolidated city-boroughs that are far larger in land area than Anchorage Municipality. The largest one is Yakutat city-borough, with more than ten times as many square miles within its boundaries (7,650) as residents (662). The Juneau, Sitka, Haines, and Wrangell city-boroughs also are larger than Anchorage.
If I remember correctly, those consolidated city-boroughs are larger in land area than any other city in the United States. Jacksonville is the largest city by land area in the United States after the consolidated city-boroughs in Alaska, with a land area of 747 sq mi.

Also Dane County is larger than Rhode Island. Talk about how small Rhode Island is.

This is how Phoenix, Arizona, has been growing in population, passing the size of other cities. It's not because it's population is growing, it's because it keeps annexing more suburbs.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ipeters61 on February 11, 2019, 08:24:05 AM
Quote from: qguy on February 11, 2019, 06:17:31 AM
Quote from: MantyMadTown on February 10, 2019, 05:58:05 PM
Quote from: oscar on February 10, 2019, 03:53:28 PM
Quote from: kalvado on February 10, 2019, 03:17:50 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on February 10, 2019, 12:12:42 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but the city limits of Anchorage Alaska (1963 sq mi) are larger than the entire state of Rhode Island (1212 sq mi) and approximately the size of the entire state of Delaware (1981 sq mi).
And I wonder how they plow that entire area after the snowfall...
The City of Anchorage used to be much smaller. It consolidated with the former Greater Anchorage Area Borough, which swept into the new Anchorage Municipality several outlying communities that are not separately incorporated, and a lot of uninhabited mountains. The city limits thus encompass a lot of empty territory that has to go somewhere, and doesn't really belong in a neighboring borough like Kenai Peninsula or Matanuska-Susitna.

Alaska has other consolidated city-boroughs that are far larger in land area than Anchorage Municipality. The largest one is Yakutat city-borough, with more than ten times as many square miles within its boundaries (7,650) as residents (662). The Juneau, Sitka, Haines, and Wrangell city-boroughs also are larger than Anchorage.
If I remember correctly, those consolidated city-boroughs are larger in land area than any other city in the United States. Jacksonville is the largest city by land area in the United States after the consolidated city-boroughs in Alaska, with a land area of 747 sq mi.

Also Dane County is larger than Rhode Island. Talk about how small Rhode Island is.

This is how Phoenix, Arizona, has been growing in population, passing the size of other cities. It's not because it's population is growing, it's because it keeps annexing more suburbs.
I've heard this is what happened with Middletown DE and Smyrna DE, although there's also been a lot of construction in those towns.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on March 09, 2019, 02:29:47 AM
Jefferson County, WA is split in half by the Olympic Mountains, which means traveling from its coastal towns to the county seat in Port Townsend requires going around via Clallam County.

(https://youra.com/maps/jeffmap/largemap/images/heartmap4.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on April 11, 2019, 12:35:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzH_ChK32OU
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thspfc on April 28, 2019, 05:55:24 PM
I read somewhere that Evansville, IN is closer to Pensacola than is Key West. I looked it up, and it's true - by driving, Evansville is 600 miles and Key West is 830.  :wow:
Florida is closer to the Midwest than it is to Florida  :colorful:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kevinb1994 on April 28, 2019, 05:58:55 PM
Quote from: thspfc on April 28, 2019, 05:55:24 PM
I read somewhere that Evansville, IN is closer to Pensacola than is Key West. I looked it up, and it's true - by driving, Evansville is 600 miles and Key West is 830.  :wow:
Florida is closer to the Midwest than it is to Florida  :colorful:

This is one reason why the Dixie Highway was routed to and from the Midwest, where there are historic connections with the Lincoln Highway and other historic roads and trails, etc.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on May 09, 2019, 05:02:18 PM
My brother and I were talking about places he could drive to in order to catch a cruise, in the instance driving might be cheaper than flying. Baltimore was first choice. Among the other cities he listed were Norfolk and Charleston, SC. I was a bit surprised to find that Charleston is closer than Norfolk. It doesn't seem logical considering that Kentucky and Virginia are neighbors, while there are at least two states (VA/NC, TN/NC, or TN/GA) between Kentucky and South Carolina.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on May 09, 2019, 10:35:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2019, 05:02:18 PM
Among the other cities he listed were Norfolk and Charleston, SC. I was a bit surprised to find that Charleston is closer than Norfolk.

From where? I know you live near Stanton.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on May 10, 2019, 06:32:27 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 09, 2019, 10:35:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2019, 05:02:18 PM
Among the other cities he listed were Norfolk and Charleston, SC. I was a bit surprised to find that Charleston is closer than Norfolk.

From where? I know you live near Stanton.

He's right in the middle of the Golden Triangle. Owen County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on May 11, 2019, 10:19:28 AM
It's almost exactly the same distance in a straight line from Montréal to the Gulf of Mexico as it is to the north cape of Québec.

In fact, from the southern Québec border it's approximately the same distance to the northernmost point of the province as it is to the Bahamas.

Québec is pretty huge. It's also the same distance south to north as San Diego is to Vancouver.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 11, 2019, 02:37:42 PM
When messing around with Maps I was surprised when I learned it's still over 1,000 miles from Houlton, ME to the eastern tip of Newfoundland.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on May 11, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 11, 2019, 10:19:28 AM
Québec is pretty huge. It's also the same distance south to north as San Diego is to Vancouver.
Which Vancouver?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 11, 2019, 09:26:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 11, 2019, 10:19:28 AM
Québec is pretty huge. It's also the same distance south to north as San Diego is to Vancouver.
Which Vancouver?

I assume Canada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Verlanka on May 12, 2019, 09:08:37 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 11, 2019, 09:26:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 11, 2019, 10:19:28 AM
Québec is pretty huge. It's also the same distance south to north as San Diego is to Vancouver.
Which Vancouver?

I assume Canada.

Or perhaps Vancouver, Washington.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on May 12, 2019, 10:09:01 AM
Quote from: Verlanka on May 12, 2019, 09:08:37 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 11, 2019, 09:26:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 11, 2019, 10:19:28 AM
Québec is pretty huge. It's also the same distance south to north as San Diego is to Vancouver.
Which Vancouver?

I assume Canada.

Or perhaps Vancouver, Washington.
Doubtful.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on May 12, 2019, 11:30:18 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 12, 2019, 10:09:01 AM
Quote from: Verlanka on May 12, 2019, 09:08:37 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 11, 2019, 09:26:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 11, 2019, 10:19:28 AM
Québec is pretty huge. It's also the same distance south to north as San Diego is to Vancouver.
Which Vancouver?

I assume Canada.

Or perhaps Vancouver, Washington.
Doubtful.
A good tool for verifying such claims:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=1200mi%40yul
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=san-yvr&R=1200mi%40san
It seems borderline.
another fun fact to notice, though, is that San Diego to Vancouver BC is shorter than San Diego to Houston TX.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: sparker on May 12, 2019, 05:02:45 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 11, 2019, 10:19:28 AM
In fact, from the southern Québec border it's approximately the same distance to the northernmost point of the province as it is to the Bahamas.

Montreal resident: "Honey, would you rather go to Nassau over Christmas or up to Ivujivic to see the Northern Lights?"

Mrs. Montreal resident: "You've gotta be f***ing kidding me!  What do you think?"

Montreal resident: "......uhhh......Nassau it is!?"
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 12, 2019, 05:19:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 12, 2019, 10:09:01 AM
Quote from: Verlanka on May 12, 2019, 09:08:37 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 11, 2019, 09:26:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 11, 2019, 10:19:28 AM
Québec is pretty huge. It's also the same distance south to north as San Diego is to Vancouver.
Which Vancouver?

I assume Canada.

Or perhaps Vancouver, Washington.
Doubtful.

Honestly I don't know why this trips people up so much. Vancouver, WA is just a suburb of Portland. If OP meant that one, he would have said Portland.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on May 12, 2019, 05:42:06 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 12, 2019, 05:19:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 12, 2019, 10:09:01 AM
Quote from: Verlanka on May 12, 2019, 09:08:37 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 11, 2019, 09:26:25 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 11, 2019, 09:24:59 PM
Quote from: Chris on May 11, 2019, 10:19:28 AM
Québec is pretty huge. It's also the same distance south to north as San Diego is to Vancouver.
Which Vancouver?

I assume Canada.

Or perhaps Vancouver, Washington.
Doubtful.

Honestly I don't know why this trips people up so much. Vancouver, WA is just a suburb of Portland. If OP meant that one, he would have said Portland.
There is also some room for playing with toponyms.
For example, do you know that Amsterdam* is closer to NYC than London**?

*Amsterdam NY
** London ON
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ipeters61 on May 12, 2019, 07:05:23 PM
Quote from: kalvado on May 12, 2019, 05:42:06 PM
There is also some room for playing with toponyms.
For example, do you know that Amsterdam* is closer to NYC than London**?

*Amsterdam NY
** London ON
I love these sorts of things.  When I was in college, I interviewed for a job in Berlin CT and would just tell people from southern CT (who, ostensibly, didn't really know that Berlin CT existed) that I was interviewing for a job in Berlin.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on May 12, 2019, 08:23:21 PM
What makes the two Vancouvers interesting is that they are both on the I-5/BC 99 corridor.  If Washington wanted to be mean to people from out of the area, they could sign all interchanges with I-5 as "I-5 North/Vancouver" and "I-5 South/Vancouver".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on May 12, 2019, 08:40:05 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on May 12, 2019, 07:05:23 PM
Quote from: kalvado on May 12, 2019, 05:42:06 PM
There is also some room for playing with toponyms.
For example, do you know that Amsterdam* is closer to NYC than London**?

*Amsterdam NY
** London ON
I love these sorts of things.  When I was in college, I interviewed for a job in Berlin CT and would just tell people from southern CT (who, ostensibly, didn't really know that Berlin CT existed) that I was interviewing for a job in Berlin.

And they pronounce it like the Prussian capitol: ber-LINN instead of how it's said here...BER-linn.

One of my brothers lives in Middletown, CT. Cross the Connecticut River and chances are you'd be in Portland, CT. However, whenever my mother or twin brother refer to Portland, we're nearly always referring to Maine. :)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ipeters61 on May 12, 2019, 08:45:00 PM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on May 12, 2019, 08:40:05 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on May 12, 2019, 07:05:23 PM
Quote from: kalvado on May 12, 2019, 05:42:06 PM
There is also some room for playing with toponyms.
For example, do you know that Amsterdam* is closer to NYC than London**?

*Amsterdam NY
** London ON
I love these sorts of things.  When I was in college, I interviewed for a job in Berlin CT and would just tell people from southern CT (who, ostensibly, didn't really know that Berlin CT existed) that I was interviewing for a job in Berlin.

And they pronounce it like the Prussian capitol: ber-LINN instead of how it's said here...BER-linn.

One of my brothers lives in Middletown, CT. Cross the Connecticut River and chances are you'd be in Portland, CT. However, whenever my mother or twin brother refer to Portland, we're nearly always referring to Maine. :)
Yeah my father (who grew up in Europe) always got annoyed that I'd say BERlin instead of BerLIN when referring to the one in CT.  Then again, my CT friends always hated when I said NorITCH (British way) instead of NorWICH.

Actually, sometimes I have to emphasize when I'm talking about Middletown DE or Middletown CT when talking to family or friends, since they're both fairly important towns in both states (at least from my perspective).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MantyMadTown on May 12, 2019, 08:59:51 PM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on May 12, 2019, 08:40:05 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on May 12, 2019, 07:05:23 PM
Quote from: kalvado on May 12, 2019, 05:42:06 PM
There is also some room for playing with toponyms.
For example, do you know that Amsterdam* is closer to NYC than London**?

*Amsterdam NY
** London ON
I love these sorts of things.  When I was in college, I interviewed for a job in Berlin CT and would just tell people from southern CT (who, ostensibly, didn't really know that Berlin CT existed) that I was interviewing for a job in Berlin.

And they pronounce it like the Prussian capitol: ber-LINN instead of how it's said here...BER-linn.

One of my brothers lives in Middletown, CT. Cross the Connecticut River and chances are you'd be in Portland, CT. However, whenever my mother or twin brother refer to Portland, we're nearly always referring to Maine. :)

We also have a New Berlin in Wisconsin that's pronounced the same way–new BER-linn instead of new ber-LINN.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 12, 2019, 09:58:14 PM
Can't speak for the CT one, but my understanding was the WI one was changed before the US entered WWI in a wave of anti-Germán sentiment.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on May 13, 2019, 06:17:40 AM
Not sure why, but the Thames in Connecticut is pronounced differently from the one in England.

Thaymes vs Tems.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on May 13, 2019, 08:35:05 AM
Quote from: kalvado on May 12, 2019, 05:42:06 PMThere is also some room for playing with toponyms.
For example, do you know that Amsterdam* is closer to NYC than London**?

*Amsterdam NY
** London ON

I like to take this to the extreme. For example, once on a Guess the Road thread elsewhere I came up with a very rural road and claimed it was just one mile away from Madrid (the thread is restricted to roads in Spain only BTW). And indeed, it was one mile away from Madrid... de las Caderechas, a little village in Burgos province. Another example is this:
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on January 06, 2019, 10:37:01 AM
Boston to Worcester: I-90, MA 9, US 20, I-95, MA 2, and US 1 are banned.

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on January 06, 2019, 12:16:25 PM
A52-A453-M1-A42-M42-M5-A4440-A44 :bigass:.

roadgeekteen didn't specify which Boston and Worcester, so I used the ones in (good old) England, UK.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on May 13, 2019, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: jon daly on May 13, 2019, 06:17:40 AM
Not sure why, but the Thames in Connecticut is pronounced differently from the one in England.

Thaymes vs Tems.
Because the English pronunciation has undergone the transmogrification to something shorter like Totnum, Wusster, Grenitch, Suvvuk*, etc while the spelling has stayed the same? Certainly it's something that American tourists sometimes get wrong as it is rather warped.

Sure, it's no Lie-cest-er Squay-yer ('Lester Square', with square being mono-syllabic), that's very common, but you do get some 'Fames', or (the better) 'Taymes', rather than Tems.

Oh, and if you are in Oxford, it's pronounced 'eye-sis' ;)

*Tottenham, Worcester, Greenwich, Southwark.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 13, 2019, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: english si on May 13, 2019, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: jon daly on May 13, 2019, 06:17:40 AM
Not sure why, but the Thames in Connecticut is pronounced differently from the one in England.

Thaymes vs Tems.
Because the English pronunciation has undergone the transmogrification to something shorter like Totnum, Wusster, Grenitch, Suvvuk*, etc while the spelling has stayed the same?

That's my guess: that the passage of time, rather than the physical distance, has resulted in two separate evolutions of pronunciation. When the two place names were contemporaneous; i.e., when the American Thames was named after the English Thames, I am certain they were pronounced the same by the same speakers.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on May 13, 2019, 01:18:22 PM
The only Greenwich that I am aware of that has a long E is upstate in NY.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on May 13, 2019, 01:58:38 PM
New England usually gets things correct. The two I know of that don't are Warwick, RI (phonetic, and probably the case for the other Warwicks) and Leominster, MA (three syllables, but people not from the area often use four; the one in the UK has two).

Side note: if this thread gets split, it should get merged into the "unique local pronunciations" thread.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on May 13, 2019, 02:07:33 PM
Yeah, the ones that I think are really mangled are elsewhere and of non-English origin. Ver-sall-iss, Ohio, Kay-ro Illinois, and New May-drid, Missourri come to mind.

How would they split a thread? Does someone move the pronunciation  posts that are already here to another thread?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 13, 2019, 04:24:00 PM
In Minnesota, Monticello is "Monti-sell-o" , not "cello"  the instrument as Jefferson's home is pronounced.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thspfc on May 13, 2019, 05:01:48 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 13, 2019, 04:24:00 PM
In Minnesota, Monticello is "Monti-sell-o" , not "cello"  the instrument as Jefferson's home is pronounced.
Monticello, WI is pronounced "Monny-sello". We don't pronounce t's.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on May 13, 2019, 05:14:58 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 12, 2019, 08:23:21 PM
What makes the two Vancouvers interesting is that they are both on the I-5/BC 99 corridor.  If Washington wanted to be mean to people from out of the area, they could sign all interchanges with I-5 as "I-5 North/Vancouver" and "I-5 South/Vancouver".

Luckily, WSDOT is smart and signs I-5 as Vancouver BC / Seattle / Portland.

But both Vancouvers do have stops on the Cascades, which has a daily round-trip that runs all the way between them. And there were a few news articles from the 2010 Olympics that described international tourists showing up to bookings in Vancouver, WA and wondering where the venues were.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on May 14, 2019, 01:04:40 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 13, 2019, 04:24:00 PM
In Minnesota, Monticello is "Monti-sell-o" , not "cello"  the instrument as Jefferson's home is pronounced.

Same in Kentucky.

We also have Ver-sales, Yo-suh-mite and Oh-knee-da, among other places.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on May 14, 2019, 01:58:42 PM
Quote from: thspfc on May 13, 2019, 05:01:48 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 13, 2019, 04:24:00 PM
In Minnesota, Monticello is "Monti-sell-o" , not "cello"  the instrument as Jefferson's home is pronounced.
Monticello, WI is pronounced "Monny-sello". We don't pronounce t's.

Around here it's more like Monneh-sello. Having the "y" in there sounds really weird, at least to me.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 14, 2019, 02:43:55 PM
I don't know if this counts as geographical, but there are only five bridges across the Mississippi River in* the state of Mississippi, and one of them only serves railroad traffic.

(* You know what I mean.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on May 14, 2019, 02:50:22 PM
Iowa has Ne-vay-da.

One thing I still am not 100% sure about after all this time, how in the hell is the state of Nevada pronounced? I say the second syllable similarly to the word "apple" , but the "open up and say ahh"  is common enough that I'm not sure.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 14, 2019, 02:54:53 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 14, 2019, 02:50:22 PM
Iowa has Ne-vay-da.

One thing I still am not 100% sure about after all this time, how in the hell is the state of Nevada pronounced? I say the second syllable similarly to the word "apple" , but the "open up and say ahh"  is common enough that I'm not sure.

Isn't the one in Missouri also pronounced Nuh-Vay-Duh?

I grew up pronouncing the state name Nuh-Vah-Duh, but nowadays I say Nuh-Væ-Duh.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on May 15, 2019, 03:56:01 PM
I believe the state is supposed to be pronounced Ne-vad-uh, with a as in apple.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 15, 2019, 04:50:08 PM
Well, I guess that depends on how you define "supposed to".  The name is the Spanish word for snowy, and the Spanish pronunciation would be  Neh-ßah-ðah . . .
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on May 15, 2019, 08:00:23 PM
As pronounced by locals, it is indeed the "æpple" sound. The Spanish is wrong.  :sombrero:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on May 15, 2019, 08:17:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 15, 2019, 03:56:01 PM
I believe the state is supposed to be pronounced Ne-vad-uh, with a as in apple.

The state even puts the breve the a on some of its signs in an effort to get people to pronounce it that way.

This is the same sort of situations where places in Texas and California that were named after the same thing and are spelled the same often aren't pronounced the same. It should be noted with interest that Amarillo, TX and Camarillo, CA don't rhyme and aren't even very close to rhyming despite sharing the last 8 letters. My understanding is that the Texas pronunciations of many of these words more closely approximates the modern Portuguese than any modern Spanish. Brazil has a patriotic song entitled "verde e amarelo" pronounced something very close to "verge ya Mahry Lou". It's only a short putt from "am a Rilla?".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 15, 2019, 09:51:41 PM
For those interested in Texas town name pronunciations, allow me to refer you to this almanac (https://texasalmanac.com/sites/default/files/images/PronunWeb18.pdf) (.pdf warning).  I actually have this file saved to my cell phone.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: amroad17 on May 16, 2019, 04:38:19 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 14, 2019, 02:54:53 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 14, 2019, 02:50:22 PM
Iowa has Ne-vay-da.

One thing I still am not 100% sure about after all this time, how in the hell is the state of Nevada pronounced? I say the second syllable similarly to the word "apple" , but the "open up and say ahh"  is common enough that I'm not sure.

Isn't the one in Missouri also pronounced Nuh-Vay-Duh?

I grew up pronouncing the state name Nuh-Vah-Duh, but nowadays I say Nuh-Væ-Duh.
Ohio has a town pronounced Nuh-vay-duh--Nevada, between Upper Sandusky and Bucyrus off US 30.  Another town in Ohio has an odd pronunciation--Russia.  It's pronounced Ru-sea-uh.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 16, 2019, 02:12:09 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on May 16, 2019, 04:38:19 AM
Ohio has a town pronounced Nuh-vay-duh--Nevada, between Upper Sandusky and Bucyrus off US 30.  Another town in Ohio has an odd pronunciation--Russia.  It's pronounced Ru-sea-uh.

That's pretty close to how it would be pronounced in Russian, actually.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on May 16, 2019, 04:13:56 PM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on May 16, 2019, 04:14:37 PM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on May 17, 2019, 02:31:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2019, 09:51:41 PM
For those interested in Texas town name pronunciations, allow me to refer you to this almanac (https://texasalmanac.com/sites/default/files/images/PronunWeb18.pdf) (.pdf warning).  I actually have this file saved to my cell phone.

I'd be a bit wary of that–I have a friend from Lubbock whose reported pronunciation of "Floydada" doesn't match with what's in there.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 17, 2019, 02:49:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 17, 2019, 02:31:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2019, 09:51:41 PM

For those interested in Texas town name pronunciations, allow me to refer you to this almanac (https://texasalmanac.com/sites/default/files/images/PronunWeb18.pdf) (.pdf warning).  I actually have this file saved to my cell phone.

I'd be a bit wary of that–I have a friend from Lubbock whose reported pronunciation of "Floydada" doesn't match with what's in there.

You might notice that your friend doesn't live in Floydada.

What's in that almanac guide matches both this article by a Lubbock radio station (https://kfmx.com/5-places-in-west-texas-that-yankees-have-a-hard-time-pronouncing/) about mispronounced Texas town names and also the given pronunciation on the town's Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floydada,_Texas).  Also, one of the two competing theories on the origin of the town's name is that it's a combination of the names Floyd and Ada; put those together and you get the pronunciation given in the almanac.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on May 17, 2019, 10:27:34 PM
Meahwhile, Newark is spelled the same in New Jersey, Delaware and Ohio. The Delaware version is new-ARK while the others are NEW-irk. I pronounce Delaware's version the same as the others.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: amroad17 on May 18, 2019, 02:25:10 AM
Another Ohio town: Rio Grande.  It's pronounced with a long I (Rye-o), not like the river.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on May 18, 2019, 06:56:16 AM
Now just imagine Duran Duran singing their signature 80's hit that way! Would it be Simon Lebon's ode to a particular bread he liked? :)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 20, 2019, 02:24:59 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on May 18, 2019, 02:25:10 AM
Another Ohio town: Rio Grande.  It's pronounced with a long I (Rye-o), not like the river.

Which still leaves the question of how to pronounce 'Grande' . . .
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on May 20, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2019, 02:24:59 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on May 18, 2019, 02:25:10 AM
Another Ohio town: Rio Grande.  It's pronounced with a long I (Rye-o), not like the river.

Which still leaves the question of how to pronounce 'Grande' . . .

Wikipedia says one syllable.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 20, 2019, 03:08:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 20, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
Wikipedia says one syllable.

Or two.

Quote from: Wikipedia, Rio Grande
The Rio Grande (/ˈriːoʊ ˈɡrænd/ or /ˈriːoʊ ˈɡrɑːndeɪ/; Spanish: Río Bravo del Norte, Spanish pronunciation: [ˈri.o ˈβɾaβo ðel ˈnoɾte] (About this soundlisten) or simply Río Bravo) is one of the principal rivers (along with the Colorado River) in the southwest United States and northern Mexico.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Buck87 on May 20, 2019, 03:39:31 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 14, 2019, 01:04:40 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 13, 2019, 04:24:00 PM
In Minnesota, Monticello is "Monti-sell-o" , not "cello"  the instrument as Jefferson's home is pronounced.
Same in Kentucky.

Spent a night there once on a trip back to Ohio from Georgia that included a stop at Cumberland Caverns in TN.

When I called to order Pizza Hut to my motel room, the guy answering the phone just said "Pizza Hut", so I asked "is this the Monticello location?"...pronouncing it the Jefferson way. This prompted a response of "Yes...though it's pronounced Monti-sell-o......and there's some of us who like to call it Monti-hell-hole"
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: inkyatari on May 20, 2019, 03:48:42 PM
Doing a little map searching on Missouri Sister Island here, and from what I can see, the boundary was always on the Mississippi River until sometime after 1964.  Interestingly the map I'm looking at from 1964 shows something under construction in the river at that point.  Was the Corps of Engineers planning on building a dam, and wanting to keep both ends in one state for some reason?  Just throwing out speculation here, as this does not look at all like something natural.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on May 20, 2019, 03:54:38 PM
Quote from: Buck87 on May 20, 2019, 03:39:31 PM
When I called to order Pizza Hut to my motel room, the guy answering the phone just said "Pizza Hut", so I asked "is this the Monticello location?"...pronouncing it the Jefferson way. This prompted a response of "Yes...though it's pronounced Monti-sell-o......and there's some of us who like to call it Monti-hell-hole"

Monticello is actually a decent little Kentucky county seat town, and it's grown like crazy the past 20-30 years. My grandfather owned a piece of property in Wayne County near Lake Cumberland, and we used to there once a year to fish. It took a good 3 to 3 1/2 hours to get there, as KY 80 between London and Somerset had not yet been built. There weren't many restaurants in town; occasionally we'd trek to Monticello from the Beaver Creek area to eat at a little dairy bar on the west side of town.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jon daly on May 20, 2019, 04:41:04 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on May 18, 2019, 02:25:10 AM
Another Ohio town: Rio Grande.  It's pronounced with a long I (Rye-o), not like the river.

This reminds me that the first word in the phrases Rodeo Drive and rodeo clown does not sound a like.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on May 21, 2019, 03:43:15 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 17, 2019, 02:49:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 17, 2019, 02:31:00 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2019, 09:51:41 PM

For those interested in Texas town name pronunciations, allow me to refer you to this almanac (https://texasalmanac.com/sites/default/files/images/PronunWeb18.pdf) (.pdf warning).  I actually have this file saved to my cell phone.

I'd be a bit wary of that–I have a friend from Lubbock whose reported pronunciation of "Floydada" doesn't match with what's in there.

You might notice that your friend doesn't live in Floydada.

What's in that almanac guide matches both this article by a Lubbock radio station (https://kfmx.com/5-places-in-west-texas-that-yankees-have-a-hard-time-pronouncing/) about mispronounced Texas town names and also the given pronunciation on the town's Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floydada,_Texas).  Also, one of the two competing theories on the origin of the town's name is that it's a combination of the names Floyd and Ada; put those together and you get the pronunciation given in the almanac.

Actually, I misread the almanac–the all-caps was more visible than the line over the long A, so I thought the almanac was advocating for Floy-da-da rather than the correct Floyd-ada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on May 21, 2019, 07:29:13 AM
One can find State Highways that are maintained at national level in both Italy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_highway_(Italy%29) and New Zealand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_state_highway_network). Thanks to the former I can claim I've been on a State Highway :sombrero:.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on May 21, 2019, 09:39:05 AM
Quote from: jon daly on May 13, 2019, 06:17:40 AM
Not sure why, but the Thames in Connecticut is pronounced differently from the one in England.

Thaymes vs Tems.

Yeah, imagine how awkward it was when I was talking to a friend about London and used the Connecticut pronunciation of Thames to describe the river in England...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on May 21, 2019, 10:14:00 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 20, 2019, 03:08:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 20, 2019, 02:26:43 PM
Wikipedia says one syllable.

Or two.

Quote from: Wikipedia, Rio Grande
The Rio Grande (/ˈriːoʊ ˈɡrænd/ or /ˈriːoʊ ˈɡrɑːndeɪ/; Spanish: Río Bravo del Norte, Spanish pronunciation: [ˈri.o ˈβɾaβo ðel ˈnoɾte] (About this soundlisten) or simply Río Bravo) is one of the principal rivers (along with the Colorado River) in the southwest United States and northern Mexico.

Not the one in Ohio.  it is Grand, one syllable, same as the slang term for $1000.  That is the point of that subsection of this thread, small US towns that are pronounced differently than the foreign city (or in this case river). 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 21, 2019, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 21, 2019, 10:14:00 AM
Not the one in Ohio.  it is Grand, one syllable, same as the slang term for $1000.  That is the point of that subsection of this thread, small US towns that are pronounced differently than the foreign city (or in this case river). 

Oh yeah, I get that.  I was just reiterating that the pronunciation of "Grande" isn't obvious.  In fact, the river has two standard pronunciations.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on May 21, 2019, 05:01:29 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 21, 2019, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 21, 2019, 10:14:00 AM
Not the one in Ohio.  it is Grand, one syllable, same as the slang term for $1000.  That is the point of that subsection of this thread, small US towns that are pronounced differently than the foreign city (or in this case river). 

Oh yeah, I get that.  I was just reiterating that the pronunciation of "Grande" isn't obvious.  In fact, the river has two standard pronunciations.

I have yet to meet someone who pronounces the river with two syllables.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on May 21, 2019, 06:31:41 PM
Quote from: US 89 on May 21, 2019, 05:01:29 PMI have yet to meet someone who pronounces the river with two syllables.
I've only ever heard it pronounced with 2 syllables (like Ariana) - not that I hear it often...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 22, 2019, 02:03:57 PM
I've definitely heard it pronounced both ways.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dbz77 on June 25, 2019, 11:27:04 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 05, 2015, 05:23:10 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on December 05, 2015, 08:40:14 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 03, 2015, 11:04:38 PM
Quote from: jbnati27 on December 03, 2015, 10:27:05 AM
Bristol VA is closer to several other other state capitals (Charleston WV, Nashville TN, Raleigh NC, Atlanta GA, Frankfort KY, Columbia SC) than it is its own capital of Richmond.

Have also heard this said about the three West Virginia eastern panhandle counties. Closer to Harrisburg, Trenton, Annapolis, Richmond and possibly Dover than to Charleston.

On this same vein, more than half of Massachusetts are closer to three other state capitals (Hartford, CT, Albany, NY, and Providence, RI, than they are to Boston.

A map that shows which capital is closest to a given location is called a Voronoi map. Here's one for the US.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkgVe9TC.png&hash=7e3da9d20aca928b97c90b57ad992da69700ff14)
Carson City is closer to Los Angeles than Sacramento is.

The shortest road route from Los Angeles to Carson City involves using Santa Ana Freeway (US 101) to Arroyo Seco Parkway (SR-110) to Golden State Freeway (I-5) to Glendale Freeway (SR-2) to Foothill Freeway (SR-2/I-210) to Angeles Crest Highway (SR-2) to Angeles Forest Highway to Sierra Highway to Antelope Valley Freeway (SR-14) to US 395.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GenExpwy on June 26, 2019, 02:56:05 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 05, 2015, 05:23:10 PM

A map that shows which capital is closest to a given location is called a Voronoi map. Here's one for the US.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkgVe9TC.png&hash=7e3da9d20aca928b97c90b57ad992da69700ff14)

Bismarck is badly misplaced.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on June 26, 2019, 04:27:32 AM
Already noted three and a half years ago:
Quote from: SD Mapman on December 05, 2015, 07:27:19 PM
Is Bismarck supposed to be on the Canadian border?

This one is more political than geographical, but technically West Germany still exists today. Since it now includes the territory previously known as East Germany it no longer makes sense to know it as "West Germany", but rather as just "Germany".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ipeters61 on June 26, 2019, 08:05:57 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 05, 2015, 05:23:10 PM
A map that shows which capital is closest to a given location is called a Voronoi map. Here's one for the US.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkgVe9TC.png&hash=7e3da9d20aca928b97c90b57ad992da69700ff14)
This is really cool.  Delaware and Rhode Island are the only ones which have their capital covering the entire state.

Though I would make the point that Dover is pretty far (road miles-wise) from most places in far South Jersey (south of the Delaware Memorial Bridge).  I still remember when I called to pick up my Internet equipment and they said I could pick Camden DE (5 mile drive), New Castle DE (40 mile drive), or Bridgeton NJ (23 air miles, 77 mile drive).  Of course they said Bridgeton was closer than New Castle, and I was like....I'm not swimming with electronics.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 02, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 02, 2019, 10:21:44 PM
There is a 50.5% chance that at least one of the above apply.
I'd love me some ABQ (get it, 505)...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on July 03, 2019, 12:24:34 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 02, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 02, 2019, 10:21:44 PM
There is a 50.5% chance that at least one of the above apply.
I'd love me some ABQ (get it, 505)...

Fun fact: Albuquerque almost lost its 505 area code in a split where it would have moved to 575. That plan was opposed to the point where people were sending death threats to the public services commission. Eventually, regulators changed their minds, and 575 was given to the more rural parts of the state.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kevinb1994 on July 03, 2019, 12:46:56 AM
Quote from: US 89 on July 03, 2019, 12:24:34 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 02, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 02, 2019, 10:21:44 PM
There is a 50.5% chance that at least one of the above apply.
I'd love me some ABQ (get it, 505)...
Fun fact: Albuquerque almost lost its 505 area code in a split where it would have moved to 575. That plan was opposed to the point where people were sending death threats to the public services commission. Eventually, regulators changed their minds, and 575 was given to the more rural parts of the state.
I'm betting that Sammy Hagar wouldn't bother to drive I-575. ;)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ftballfan on July 03, 2019, 08:50:39 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 03, 2019, 12:24:34 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 02, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 02, 2019, 10:21:44 PM
There is a 50.5% chance that at least one of the above apply.
I'd love me some ABQ (get it, 505)...

Fun fact: Albuquerque almost lost its 505 area code in a split where it would have moved to 575. That plan was opposed to the point where people were sending death threats to the public services commission. Eventually, regulators changed their minds, and 575 was given to the more rural parts of the state.
It's very unusual that Albuquerque would have changed area codes. Whenever area codes were split, usually the area with the most populated city/metro area kept the old code. For example, area code 616 has been split three times. Originally, 616 covered all of Michigan roughly west of a line from Cheboygan to Coldwater as well as the Upper Peninsula. The first area to be split off was the UP, which was given 906. The next two splits took place a couple of years apart, with all of 616 from Muskegon on north to the Mackinac Bridge went to 231 followed by Kalamazoo and Battle Creek et al going to 269. Nowadays, 616 covers Kent and Ottawa counties (the two largest counties in West Michigan) and parts of a couple of other counties (I think far northwest Kent County might be 231)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mrsman on July 04, 2019, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on July 03, 2019, 08:50:39 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 03, 2019, 12:24:34 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 02, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 02, 2019, 10:21:44 PM
There is a 50.5% chance that at least one of the above apply.
I'd love me some ABQ (get it, 505)...

Fun fact: Albuquerque almost lost its 505 area code in a split where it would have moved to 575. That plan was opposed to the point where people were sending death threats to the public services commission. Eventually, regulators changed their minds, and 575 was given to the more rural parts of the state.
It's very unusual that Albuquerque would have changed area codes. Whenever area codes were split, usually the area with the most populated city/metro area kept the old code. For example, area code 616 has been split three times. Originally, 616 covered all of Michigan roughly west of a line from Cheboygan to Coldwater as well as the Upper Peninsula. The first area to be split off was the UP, which was given 906. The next two splits took place a couple of years apart, with all of 616 from Muskegon on north to the Mackinac Bridge went to 231 followed by Kalamazoo and Battle Creek et al going to 269. Nowadays, 616 covers Kent and Ottawa counties (the two largest counties in West Michigan) and parts of a couple of other counties (I think far northwest Kent County might be 231)

Area code splits are disruptive.  In many areas, overlays are done instead.  True, it means that you now need 10 digit dialing instead of 7, but these days so many are using cell phones that 10 digit dialing is the norm.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Alps on July 04, 2019, 10:19:25 PM
Quote from: mrsman on July 04, 2019, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: ftballfan on July 03, 2019, 08:50:39 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 03, 2019, 12:24:34 AM
Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 02, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 02, 2019, 10:21:44 PM
There is a 50.5% chance that at least one of the above apply.
I'd love me some ABQ (get it, 505)...

Fun fact: Albuquerque almost lost its 505 area code in a split where it would have moved to 575. That plan was opposed to the point where people were sending death threats to the public services commission. Eventually, regulators changed their minds, and 575 was given to the more rural parts of the state.
It's very unusual that Albuquerque would have changed area codes. Whenever area codes were split, usually the area with the most populated city/metro area kept the old code. For example, area code 616 has been split three times. Originally, 616 covered all of Michigan roughly west of a line from Cheboygan to Coldwater as well as the Upper Peninsula. The first area to be split off was the UP, which was given 906. The next two splits took place a couple of years apart, with all of 616 from Muskegon on north to the Mackinac Bridge went to 231 followed by Kalamazoo and Battle Creek et al going to 269. Nowadays, 616 covers Kent and Ottawa counties (the two largest counties in West Michigan) and parts of a couple of other counties (I think far northwest Kent County might be 231)

Area code splits are disruptive.  In many areas, overlays are done instead.  True, it means that you now need 10 digit dialing instead of 7, but these days so many are using cell phones that 10 digit dialing is the norm.
I remember when we went from 201 to 973. There are still a few remnants of old menus and signs.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on July 05, 2019, 08:22:08 AM
Hartford became (860) in the fall of 1995. It was optional for the first two months or so, then became mandatory. The old (203) area code now is most of New Haven and Fairfield Counties, with a couple of exceptions. I think Woodbury in Litchfield County is (203), for an example.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jp the roadgeek on July 05, 2019, 10:03:24 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on July 05, 2019, 08:22:08 AM
Hartford became (860) in the fall of 1995. It was optional for the first two months or so, then became mandatory. The old (203) area code now is most of New Haven and Fairfield Counties, with a couple of exceptions. I think Woodbury in Litchfield County is (203), for an example.

The areas served by Woodbury Telco (Woodbury and I believe parts of Bethlehem and Roxbury) are 203.  I believe the town of Sherman is another exception: it's in Fairfield County but is part of 860.  Recently, both area codes have been overlaid; 203 with 475 and 860 with 959.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bulldog1979 on July 05, 2019, 01:43:45 PM
In 1999 when they were preparing to split the 231 from the 616 area code, they were also splitting the one exchange in Big Rapids, MI. That split was to allow Ferris State to have its own exchange separate from part of the rest of town. At the time, the city had 592 and 796 exchanges, and FSU used a portion of 592.

Because both splits were being done at the same time with the same permissive dialing period, my dorm room had four possible numbers for a few months:
(616) 592-XXXX (original)
(213) 591-XXXX (new)
(616) 591-XXXX (new exchange, old area code)
(231) 592-XXXX (new area code, old exchange)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dbz77 on July 06, 2019, 12:38:06 PM
Western Orange County, California has a 562 area code.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on July 06, 2019, 01:08:37 PM
I've never understood why western Massachusetts got 413. It's a low number (only six area codes could be dialed faster).

Numbers in parentheses are city rankings in the 1950 census.

Sum 5: NYC (1)
Sum 6: LA (4), Chicago (2)
Sum 7: DFW (Dallas 22), Detroit (5), Pittsburgh (12)
Sum 8: Philly (3), St. Louis (8), Western MA (Springfield 61), San Antonio (25)
Sum 9: Cleveland (7), central NY (Syracuse 47), Milwaukee (13), Cincinnati (18), Minneapolis (17)

Boston (617, not 413): 10th in population
Buffalo (716, not 315): 15th in population
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 06, 2019, 02:36:09 PM
https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/N3-Cattle-Company-ranch-larger-than-San-Francisco-14069717.php?fbclid=IwAR3gqKdpGQYsI1KQYjxSrXhqgIO-Lo47RGgaZsWqx6aMzKmLfnxAK0c0yYs

The N3 Cattle Company ranch has land that is bigger than San Francisco city proper.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2019, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 06, 2019, 02:36:09 PM
https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/N3-Cattle-Company-ranch-larger-than-San-Francisco-14069717.php?fbclid=IwAR3gqKdpGQYsI1KQYjxSrXhqgIO-Lo47RGgaZsWqx6aMzKmLfnxAK0c0yYs

The N3 Cattle Company ranch has land that is bigger than San Francisco city proper.
Not too surprising. San Francisco proper is small.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dlsterner on July 07, 2019, 12:03:58 AM
Quote from: 1 on July 06, 2019, 01:08:37 PM
I've never understood why western Massachusetts got 413. It's a low number (only six area codes could be dialed faster).

Numbers in parentheses are city rankings in the 1950 census.

Sum 5: NYC (1)
Sum 6: LA (4), Chicago (2)
Sum 7: DFW (Dallas 22), Detroit (5), Pittsburgh (12)
Sum 8: Philly (3), St. Louis (8), Western MA (Springfield 61), San Antonio (25)
Sum 9: Cleveland (7), central NY (Syracuse 47), Milwaukee (13), Cincinnati (18), Minneapolis (17)

Boston (617, not 413): 10th in population
Buffalo (716, not 315): 15th in population

I think part of it might be that when area codes were initially allotted, states with a single area code tended to have a middle digit of "0" and states with multiple area codes tended to have a middle digit of "1".  ("2" thru "9" wouldn't be used until the 1980's or 1990's I believe).  So this would create a bias against smaller states, having a zero.  For example, Maryland initially only had "301" which is a long one to dial on a rotary phone (a "sum" of 14), in spite of a large city in Baltimore (which in the time frame used was about at its peak population).  Also same situation with Washington DC (202) with a "sum" of 14.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on July 07, 2019, 12:14:50 AM
Quote from: dlsterner on July 07, 2019, 12:03:58 AM
("2" thru "9" wouldn't be used until the 1980's or 1990's I believe).
Started with 630 in the mid 90s. "9" is reserved for future use and is not used as a middle digit.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on July 07, 2019, 02:20:59 AM
https://youtu.be/QWxsYqCAS-k
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Verlanka on July 07, 2019, 05:07:41 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 06, 2019, 02:38:15 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 06, 2019, 02:36:09 PM
https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/N3-Cattle-Company-ranch-larger-than-San-Francisco-14069717.php?fbclid=IwAR3gqKdpGQYsI1KQYjxSrXhqgIO-Lo47RGgaZsWqx6aMzKmLfnxAK0c0yYs

The N3 Cattle Company ranch has land that is bigger than San Francisco city proper.
Not too surprising. San Francisco proper is small.
The SF metro area is huge, though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on August 07, 2019, 06:03:49 PM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on August 27, 2019, 06:04:51 PM
One thing that some would find surprising is Puerto Vallarta Mexico is on the same time zone as Chicago. Being on the Pacific Coast one would think it would be in the same time zone as LA or at least Denver.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on August 28, 2019, 07:55:42 AM
For me it would be more surprising to find the Atlantic/Caribbean entrance of the Panama Canal is to the Northwest of the Pacific entrance. And it is.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on September 12, 2019, 02:02:08 PM
Helsinki, Finland is further north than Juneau, Alaska.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Mark68 on September 12, 2019, 03:11:44 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 12, 2019, 02:02:08 PM
Helsinki, Finland is further north than Juneau, Alaska.

This is actually not a surprise (to me). The Alaska Panhandle is not THAT far north.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on September 12, 2019, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: Mark68 on September 12, 2019, 03:11:44 PMThis is actually not a surprise (to me). The Alaska Panhandle is not THAT far north.
Basic premise of Europe is further north than you'd have thought in North America that often comes up in these 'oddities'.

London is the same latitude as Calgary, Madrid is the same latitude as NYC.

Edmonton - pretty much the northernmost point of continuous North American civilisation (yes, there's Anchorage, etc, but we're talking very long distances between such places that aren't small villages) is (give or take 10 minutes) the same latitude as Manchester in England, Dublin in Ireland and Hamburg in Germany. Anything Scottish, Scandinavian, etc is further north than that. The Canadian territories begin at 60N - Oslo, Stockholm and St Petersburg are not far south of that line, Helsinki slightly to the north of it.

Nordkapp, the northernmost point on the European road network* is at 71.166714 North (according to Travel Mapping data). Prudhoe Bay is 70.206508 North, south of where the Nordkapp route meets the E6 main route through northern Norway. There's literally a whole road (E69) that's part of the European road network* north of the North American road network's northernmost point: 111km or 69 miles long and with one of the deepest tunnels in the world (-696ft wrt sea-level) - only beaten by 5 other Norwegian ones - it's not some dirt/ice road.

*Well Afro-Eurasian - one can drive to Cape Town or Singapore from there, at least theoretically.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on September 12, 2019, 08:25:59 PM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on September 13, 2019, 01:39:09 PM
Quote from: english si on September 12, 2019, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: Mark68 on September 12, 2019, 03:11:44 PMThis is actually not a surprise (to me). The Alaska Panhandle is not THAT far north.
Basic premise of Europe is further north than you'd have thought in North America that often comes up in these 'oddities'.

This is particularly pronounced in the eastern half of Canada. I live in a densely populated part of Europe, that is at the same latitude as the James Bay (total wilderness in Canada). There are no permanent roads to the Hudson Bay, a latitude that is very developed in Europe and even into Russia (same latitude as Moscow).

Many people also aren't aware how far south Greenland stretches. The southern tip is around the same latitude as Stockholm, which obviously is not located on a sheet of ice. I do find it interesting though, that the Canadian arctic islands like Ellesmere and Baffin aren't nearly as glaciated as Greenland is.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on September 13, 2019, 02:32:58 PM
I like CGP Grey's work, but he is running out of ideas.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on September 13, 2019, 03:26:30 PM
Quote from: Chris on September 13, 2019, 01:39:09 PMin Europe and even into Russia
Here's another 'oddity' - 'conventional wisdom' in Western Europe has Europe become not-Europe at the Poland-Belarus border, despite Brest (western border city in Belarus) being slightly closer to Brest (at the tip of Brittany), than Asiatic Russia and so only about halfway across Europe!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on September 13, 2019, 04:08:32 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on September 13, 2019, 02:32:58 PMI like CGP Grey's work, but he is running out of ideas.
This is the best video I've seen from him in a while that wasn't just a travelogue. Why?
1) it shows him concerned about evidence and digging through multiple sources and all that
2) it shows him admitting he doesn't know something

Him not doing this is why I went off him.

In 2015 he made a video saying that the UK General Election was the most disproportionate in British history. He said something along the lines of "and when you have a majority, the other's votes don't count". The Conservatives got 330 seats (and thus a slim majority of 12) on 36.9% of the vote - pretty terrible but not as bad as a decade earlier: in 2005 Labour got 355 seats and a majority of 66 on just 35.2% of the vote. Cameron was looking over his back for the rest of his premiership, as a rebellion of 7 could easily happen and he would lose votes. Blair was jolly as his majority was healthy. It didn't matter if you were one of 12.6% who voted UKIP to only get 1 seat (while the SNP on 4.7% got 56) in 2015, nor a Tory voter in 2005 who got just 198 seats from 32.4% of the vote (92% of the vote Labour got, 59% of the seats Labour got) - your votes weren't represented by Government policy, which was his argument as to why 2015 was bad. It was clear that it wasn't about numbers, or maths, but that the Tories won a surprise victory (even the exit poll was showing just falling short of the line) and CGP didn't like it for political reasons - he was spouting a load of opinionated tosh and passing it off as objective fact.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on September 13, 2019, 04:34:31 PM
The "Europe is further North than North America" thing happens to me in my local area to a lesser scale: Navarre, Spain is actually further North than I think. I believe Tudela (Southern Navarre) is at the same latitude as Zaragoza, the Middle area at the same latitude as Huesca (my hometown) and Pamplona at the same latitude as Sabiñanigo and Jaca (the entrance to the main chain of the Pyrenees). In reality, however, Pamplona lies at the same latitude as the Aragon (Spain)/New Aquitanie (France) and Aragon/Occitania (also France) borders, which run mostly on the divide and thus on the highest chain of the Pyrenees.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on September 14, 2019, 11:45:55 AM
Quote from: english si on September 12, 2019, 04:00:29 PM
Quote from: Mark68 on September 12, 2019, 03:11:44 PMThis is actually not a surprise (to me). The Alaska Panhandle is not THAT far north.
Basic premise of Europe is further north than you'd have thought in North America that often comes up in these 'oddities'.

London is the same latitude as Calgary, Madrid is the same latitude as NYC.

Edmonton - pretty much the northernmost point of continuous North American civilisation (yes, there's Anchorage, etc, but we're talking very long distances between such places that aren't small villages) is (give or take 10 minutes) the same latitude as Manchester in England, Dublin in Ireland and Hamburg in Germany. Anything Scottish, Scandinavian, etc is further north than that. The Canadian territories begin at 60N - Oslo, Stockholm and St Petersburg are not far south of that line, Helsinki slightly to the north of it.

Nordkapp, the northernmost point on the European road network* is at 71.166714 North (according to Travel Mapping data). Prudhoe Bay is 70.206508 North, south of where the Nordkapp route meets the E6 main route through northern Norway. There's literally a whole road (E69) that's part of the European road network* north of the North American road network's northernmost point: 111km or 69 miles long and with one of the deepest tunnels in the world (-696ft wrt sea-level) - only beaten by 5 other Norwegian ones - it's not some dirt/ice road.

*Well Afro-Eurasian - one can drive to Cape Town or Singapore from there, at least theoretically.

The entire continent of Europe (a few islands and southern tips of peninsulas excepted) is north of Washington DC, and San Jose, CA. Havana and Cabo San Lucas are the same latitude as Aswan, Egypt. Miami is just a bit north of that.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: roadman65 on September 14, 2019, 11:52:51 AM
Tampa, FL is further west than Key West, FL.

Jacksonville is due north of Big Pine Key, which is two thirds of the way from the mainland to Key West, the last drivable key.

Florida's Peninsula is not due N-S.  The east coast heads S-SE and at Palm Beach straightens out to due N-S.  The Gulf Coast is not due N-S either as south of St. Pete it curves SE and at Naples the coast moves more to the east and eventually the peninsula is very narrow at the extreme southern part of Everglades NP.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on September 23, 2019, 01:25:44 PM




Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on September 28, 2019, 09:25:26 PM
Here is an interesting one. You can get the New York AM radio stations from the Outer Banks of NC.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ftballfan on September 28, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on September 28, 2019, 09:25:26 PM
Here is an interesting one. You can get the New York AM radio stations from the Outer Banks of NC.

On a somewhat related note, radio stations can be received on opposite sides of the Great Lakes. For example, stations in eastern Wisconsin can be heard on Michigan's west coast and vice versa
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ipeters61 on September 29, 2019, 12:16:05 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on September 28, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on September 28, 2019, 09:25:26 PM
Here is an interesting one. You can get the New York AM radio stations from the Outer Banks of NC.

On a somewhat related note, radio stations can be received on opposite sides of the Great Lakes. For example, stations in eastern Wisconsin can be heard on Michigan's west coast and vice versa
Are you talking about at night (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station)?  Or during the day?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Verlanka on September 29, 2019, 05:12:04 AM
Quote from: ipeters61 on September 29, 2019, 12:16:05 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on September 28, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on September 28, 2019, 09:25:26 PM
Here is an interesting one. You can get the New York AM radio stations from the Outer Banks of NC.

On a somewhat related note, radio stations can be received on opposite sides of the Great Lakes. For example, stations in eastern Wisconsin can be heard on Michigan's west coast and vice versa
Are you talking about at night (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station)?  Or during the day?
Night mostly. I don't know if you can hear them in the daytime.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on September 29, 2019, 02:14:09 PM
Propagation mostly due to salt water and a vast open area. Two areas I received a nearly local signal at noon time or early afternoon:

WBZ-AM 1030 of Boston in many parts of Portland, ME
WCBS-AM 880 of New York City in Newport, RI (at least I did in 2004 for my lone visit)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on September 29, 2019, 03:03:32 PM
Quote from: Verlanka on September 29, 2019, 05:12:04 AM
Quote from: ipeters61 on September 29, 2019, 12:16:05 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on September 28, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on September 28, 2019, 09:25:26 PM
Here is an interesting one. You can get the New York AM radio stations from the Outer Banks of NC.

On a somewhat related note, radio stations can be received on opposite sides of the Great Lakes. For example, stations in eastern Wisconsin can be heard on Michigan's west coast and vice versa
Are you talking about at night (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station)?  Or during the day?
Night mostly. I don't know if you can hear them in the daytime.

Quote from: KEVIN_224 on September 29, 2019, 02:14:09 PM
Propagation mostly due to salt water and a vast open area. Two areas I received a nearly local signal at noon time or early afternoon:

WBZ-AM 1030 of Boston in many parts of Portland, ME
WCBS-AM 880 of New York City in Newport, RI (at least I did in 2004 for my lone visit)

Actually, that has nothing to do with it. If it's a 50,000 watt AM station, you can hear them all over the eastern US at night. I can hear 1060 in Philly while in Nashville, for example. It has to do with the sound waves from the particular frequencies and radio signals.

This was more significant when there was actually something to listen to on AM radio, and our music option choices were limited.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on September 30, 2019, 10:01:28 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 29, 2019, 03:03:32 PM

This was more significant when there was actually something to listen to on AM radio, and our music option choices were limited.

Yeah.  The two great things about clear channel AM were greater musical choice and baseball.    Today, the only clear channel stations playing music are WSM (classic country, Nashville) and CFZM (adult standards, Toronto) .  I cannot say how many still are the originating station for baseball, such as WLW Cincinnati or KMOX St. Louis, as it is easier to just pay the $12 for the app.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on September 30, 2019, 01:35:01 PM
Salt water does affect an AM signal. Something to do with the salinity of salt water. While WBZ-AM 1030 of Boston is nearly like a local in the daytime for Portland, ME, I'll get almost no signal along the Connecticut River in Hartford.

WFAN-AM 660 and WCBS-AM 880 are strong in greater Hartford during the day. It helps that their respective transmitters are in the High Island section of The Bronx. It's also the closest part of New York City to Connecticut.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on October 03, 2019, 12:06:13 AM
These two schools share a campus that straddles the King-Snohomish county line. Part of the same district, though.

(https://i.imgur.com/KRSFT2u.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on October 03, 2019, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: Bruce on October 03, 2019, 12:06:13 AM
These two schools share a campus that straddles the King-Snohomish county line. Part of the same district, though.

Local campus of State University has portions in 3 adjacent municipalities. So 911 dispatch has some deciphering to do when they get a call.
And in order to "represent student population better"  city voting was gerrymandered with districts going across the campus. So dorm students have to provide their building and room number - and in some cases location of their bed within the room - for voting purposes.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on October 03, 2019, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: Bruce on October 03, 2019, 12:06:13 AM
These two schools share a campus that straddles the King-Snohomish county line. Part of the same district, though.

(https://i.imgur.com/KRSFT2u.jpg)

Same exact situation in the school district bordering the one I attended.  Elementary school in one county and the Jr/Sr High School just across the county line road.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ftballfan on October 05, 2019, 11:11:06 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 03, 2019, 01:34:35 PM
Quote from: Bruce on October 03, 2019, 12:06:13 AM
These two schools share a campus that straddles the King-Snohomish county line. Part of the same district, though.

(https://i.imgur.com/KRSFT2u.jpg)

Same exact situation in the school district bordering the one I attended.  Elementary school in one county and the Jr/Sr High School just across the county line road.
Benzie County Central Schools in Michigan has an elementary school in Manistee County. In a related note, one of the three districts that consolidated to form Benzie County Central was based in Manistee County, but the village where that district was is relatively isolated from the rest of Manistee County and is closer to three other county seats than Manistee, the county seat of Manistee County
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on October 05, 2019, 01:14:22 PM
I like this website: https://thetruesize.com/

You can drag countries to other latitudes to get a better perspective of size compared to the traditional Mercator projection.

Brazil is absolutely enormous if you project it over Europe:
(https://i.imgur.com/m0chPJN.jpg)

While Russia isn't as 'half of the world' big once you project it over Africa.
(https://i.imgur.com/PvVSb0l.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 05, 2019, 05:44:50 PM
Only when you move Greenland to the Equator you'll realize it's not that large.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on October 09, 2019, 07:09:43 PM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on October 09, 2019, 10:52:56 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on September 29, 2019, 12:16:05 AM
Quote from: ftballfan on September 28, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on September 28, 2019, 09:25:26 PM
Here is an interesting one. You can get the New York AM radio stations from the Outer Banks of NC.

On a somewhat related note, radio stations can be received on opposite sides of the Great Lakes. For example, stations in eastern Wisconsin can be heard on Michigan's west coast and vice versa
Are you talking about at night (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station)?  Or during the day?
During the day according to radio locator WFAN is a station you can get from the Outer Banks due to it's weird signal pattern the outer banks are just east enough to be in it' fringe area over the Atlantic.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 12:34:47 AM
Quote from: kalvado on October 03, 2019, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: Bruce on October 03, 2019, 12:06:13 AM
These two schools share a campus that straddles the King-Snohomish county line. Part of the same district, though.

Local campus of State University has portions in 3 adjacent municipalities. So 911 dispatch has some deciphering to do when they get a call.
And in order to "represent student population better"  city voting was gerrymandered with districts going across the campus. So dorm students have to provide their building and room number - and in some cases location of their bed within the room - for voting purposes.

Wait... since when do students vote based on where their dorms are? At my college, we weren't city residents; we voted on absentee ballot where our parents lived. Can't be different for high school boarding schools...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on October 10, 2019, 04:59:57 AM
Quote from: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 12:34:47 AMWait... since when do students vote based on where their dorms are? At my college, we weren't city residents
My uni hall of residence registered us all (presumably, but probably not, paying attention to citizenships and seeing who was eligible for specific votes*) to vote with that as our address. We could also vote postal vote for back home if we were registered there. We had a choice of where to vote (and for local elections we possibly could have voted in two places - home and uni).

At one point there were three students on the city council, and a few more who had stood. Though only one was living in college dorms (to use the US term), as 2nd years and above tended to rent private rental housing, rather than live with the uni as the landlord.

Of course, this was the UK. The US may vary...

*Depending on the election, different sets of resident aliens (to use the US term) could vote. Not that they check - some London Boroughs don't differentiate between the different eligibilities and put ineligible residents on the roll for some elections because they are able to vote in others - and no one really cares much.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on October 10, 2019, 07:40:01 AM
Quote from: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 12:34:47 AM
Quote from: kalvado on October 03, 2019, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: Bruce on October 03, 2019, 12:06:13 AM
These two schools share a campus that straddles the King-Snohomish county line. Part of the same district, though.

Local campus of State University has portions in 3 adjacent municipalities. So 911 dispatch has some deciphering to do when they get a call.
And in order to "represent student population better"  city voting was gerrymandered with districts going across the campus. So dorm students have to provide their building and room number - and in some cases location of their bed within the room - for voting purposes.

Wait... since when do students vote based on where their dorms are? At my college, we weren't city residents; we voted on absentee ballot where our parents lived. Can't be different for high school boarding schools...

You can choose to move your voter registration address to your college residence or keep it at home. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 10, 2019, 08:00:24 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 10, 2019, 07:40:01 AM
Quote from: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 12:34:47 AM
Quote from: kalvado on October 03, 2019, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: Bruce on October 03, 2019, 12:06:13 AM
These two schools share a campus that straddles the King-Snohomish county line. Part of the same district, though.

Local campus of State University has portions in 3 adjacent municipalities. So 911 dispatch has some deciphering to do when they get a call.
And in order to "represent student population better"  city voting was gerrymandered with districts going across the campus. So dorm students have to provide their building and room number - and in some cases location of their bed within the room - for voting purposes.

Wait... since when do students vote based on where their dorms are? At my college, we weren’t city residents; we voted on absentee ballot where our parents lived. Can’t be different for high school boarding schools...

You can choose to move your voter registration address to your college residence or keep it at home. 

In addition, some students (especially international students) live on campus year-round.  Many schools will keep one residence hall open for these people.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on October 10, 2019, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 12:34:47 AM
Wait... since when do students vote based on where their dorms are? At my college, we weren't city residents; we voted on absentee ballot where our parents lived. Can't be different for high school boarding schools...

Since at least 1994 (and probably a lot longer). When I cast my first vote, it was at my on-campus polling place in NYC, not at home in Rochester.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 04:22:31 PM
That's so odd to me, especially since I went to a state school where residency was established by where your parents lived. Otherwise, I could have just moved into the dorm for a year and said, "oh, hey, I'm a NJ resident now!"  (My family was living in PA at the time).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Mark68 on October 10, 2019, 04:41:55 PM
Quote from: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 04:22:31 PM
That’s so odd to me, especially since I went to a state school where residency was established by where your parents lived. Otherwise, I could have just moved into the dorm for a year and said, “oh, hey, I’m a NJ resident now!” (My family was living in PA at the time).

Actually, that's part of what I do for a living--answer students' questions about residency. Not sure how it works in NJ, but in CO, residency IS based on your parents' residence (by state law) and you are considered a dependent student until you turn 23. So even if you register to vote in CO (and work here, register your motor vehicle here, have a lease agreement, etc), you are still a dependent until 23.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on October 11, 2019, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: empirestate on October 10, 2019, 11:32:28 AM
Quote from: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 12:34:47 AM
Wait... since when do students vote based on where their dorms are? At my college, we weren't city residents; we voted on absentee ballot where our parents lived. Can't be different for high school boarding schools...

Since at least 1994 (and probably a lot longer). When I cast my first vote, it was at my on-campus polling place in NYC, not at home in Rochester.

I always voted absentee until one election, in 1982 or 83, when I changed my registration to Rowan County, Ky., to vote in a local election at the behest of my girlfriend at the time, who lived in Morehead. I felt really bad about it, because I knew I'd be leaving that community and would never be a permanent resident. I used my college residence hall address and had no issues. I presume, from seeing other posts, that state laws vary.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on October 11, 2019, 07:07:02 PM
Quote from: Mark68 on October 10, 2019, 04:41:55 PM
Quote from: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 04:22:31 PM
That’s so odd to me, especially since I went to a state school where residency was established by where your parents lived. Otherwise, I could have just moved into the dorm for a year and said, “oh, hey, I’m a NJ resident now!” (My family was living in PA at the time).

Actually, that's part of what I do for a living--answer students' questions about residency. Not sure how it works in NJ, but in CO, residency IS based on your parents' residence (by state law) and you are considered a dependent student until you turn 23. So even if you register to vote in CO (and work here, register your motor vehicle here, have a lease agreement, etc), you are still a dependent until 23.

Is that just for students or for everybody?  Seems really messed up that you could move out at 18, get a job, and 4 years later still legally be required to vote at your parents' address.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 11, 2019, 08:23:34 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 11, 2019, 07:07:02 PM
Quote from: Mark68 on October 10, 2019, 04:41:55 PM
Quote from: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 04:22:31 PM
That’s so odd to me, especially since I went to a state school where residency was established by where your parents lived. Otherwise, I could have just moved into the dorm for a year and said, “oh, hey, I’m a NJ resident now!” (My family was living in PA at the time).

Actually, that's part of what I do for a living--answer students' questions about residency. Not sure how it works in NJ, but in CO, residency IS based on your parents' residence (by state law) and you are considered a dependent student until you turn 23. So even if you register to vote in CO (and work here, register your motor vehicle here, have a lease agreement, etc), you are still a dependent until 23.

Is that just for students or for everybody?  Seems really messed up that you could move out at 18, get a job, and 4 years later still legally be required to vote at your parents' address.

Looking at the state's voting question website it seems that it's only as long as your permanent address is your parent's address.  If you move out when you're 18, you can vote where you live.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Mark68 on October 14, 2019, 03:39:14 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 11, 2019, 07:07:02 PM
Quote from: Mark68 on October 10, 2019, 04:41:55 PM
Quote from: J3ebrules on October 10, 2019, 04:22:31 PM
That’s so odd to me, especially since I went to a state school where residency was established by where your parents lived. Otherwise, I could have just moved into the dorm for a year and said, “oh, hey, I’m a NJ resident now!” (My family was living in PA at the time).

Actually, that's part of what I do for a living--answer students' questions about residency. Not sure how it works in NJ, but in CO, residency IS based on your parents' residence (by state law) and you are considered a dependent student until you turn 23. So even if you register to vote in CO (and work here, register your motor vehicle here, have a lease agreement, etc), you are still a dependent until 23.

Is that just for students or for everybody?  Seems really messed up that you could move out at 18, get a job, and 4 years later still legally be required to vote at your parents' address.

You can vote when you move here but you can't get residency until you turn 23. Or have a dependent of your own, get married, be a veteran, have been emancipated...


But the above situations have to have supporting documents.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 15, 2019, 09:07:12 AM
Back when US 340 ended in Winchester and Virginia signed it as East-West, one could go East on US 340 and enter West Virginia. This is still the case, but US 340 is now signed North-South ("Sideways" as I say).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on October 15, 2019, 09:40:09 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 15, 2019, 09:07:12 AM
Back when US 340 ended in Winchester and Virginia signed it as East-West, one could go East on US 340 and enter West Virginia. This is still the case, but US 340 is now signed North-South ("Sideways" as I say).

Because West Virginia is misnamed, it is possible to enter it from Virginia in any of the four directions.   Just in Mercer County, you can do three of the four.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 15, 2019, 02:35:19 PM
I could no longer be considered my parents' dependent for insurance purposes when I received more than 50% of my income on my own.  That's the reason I stopped flunking out of college full-time and instead decided to enroll part-time:  I only went to the classes I enjoyed, which meant failing the others, but I kept enrolling full-time in order to stay on my parents' insurance (another requirement).  Once we realized I couldn't stay on their insurance anyway because of my income, I went ahead and only enrolled in as many classes as I would actually attend.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dlsterner on October 15, 2019, 10:28:58 PM
Arkansas borders six other states.  It is possible to start somewhere in Arkansas, travel due south, and be able to cross into any of the bordering states.

(A different point for each of the bordering states)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on October 16, 2019, 07:55:58 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on October 15, 2019, 10:28:58 PM
Arkansas borders six other states.  It is possible to start somewhere in Arkansas, travel due south, and be able to cross into any of the bordering states.

(A different point for each of the bordering states)

Once we get down to the fractal level, I'd guess this is possible from any state. ;-)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: sparker on October 16, 2019, 10:11:40 PM
Quote from: empirestate on October 16, 2019, 07:55:58 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on October 15, 2019, 10:28:58 PM
Arkansas borders six other states.  It is possible to start somewhere in Arkansas, travel due south, and be able to cross into any of the bordering states.

(A different point for each of the bordering states)

Once we get down to the fractal level, I'd guess this is possible from any state. ;-)

When it comes to such directional access to all adjoining states, it would -- even at the fractal level -- come down to whether the border is based on natural geographic features (waterways, ridgelines, valleys) or simple straight surveyed lines.  Given that, there is no possibility within either Colorado or Wyoming for single-directional -- regardless of direction -- access to its neighbors, since its borders are predicated upon specific lines of latitude & longitude.  Compare that to California, where one could conceivably head north into any of the three adjoining states (AZ due to bends of the Colorado River).   
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 17, 2019, 12:00:27 AM
Quote from: sparker on October 16, 2019, 10:11:40 PM
Given that, there is no possibility within either Colorado or Wyoming for single-directional -- regardless of direction -- access to its neighbors, since its borders are predicated upon specific lines of latitude & longitude.

This is not quite true. Borders are defined by surveying, which is, of course, subject to various errors. As you can see in the following diagram, then, you can get to Montana from Wyoming by traveling due north, east and west.

(https://i.imgur.com/yProbRL.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: sparker on October 17, 2019, 06:49:54 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I stand quasi-corrected; applying the straight-line maxim to WY (or probably any state with discrepancies in surveying accuracy) was premature.  But the maxim stands, providing a real straight line is in service.   Nevertheless, because the state lines -- as shown in the enlargements -- have been "massaged" to provide shallow angular connections of the original inaccurate surveys, one can't really go south to Montana (and though it doesn't cite any similar issues with the southern line with UT and CO (or the longitudinal lines as well), one could easily presume that similar errors -- and field corrections -- have taken place.  So for the north & south lines, E-W movement is possible; the same, shifted 90 degrees, applies to the east & west lines. 

With all the river's bends and "oxbows" south of the Ohio River confluence, the directional variables along the Mississippi River regarding the bordering states seem almost infinite -- and this applies to the lower reaches of the Ohio as well! 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KEVIN_224 on October 18, 2019, 04:44:28 PM
Sadly, that map website showing Wyoming/Montana borders didn't work for me. :(
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thspfc on November 05, 2019, 07:39:36 PM
This doesn't really defy conventional wisdom, but it's crazy that these two pictures are of the same river:

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2427314,-95.2108105,2a,60y,204.61h,84.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx_crkyGBohDzyRYImGwTzw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.2427314,-95.2108105,2a,60y,204.61h,84.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx_crkyGBohDzyRYImGwTzw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4394188,-91.1936654,3a,60y,350.23h,87.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz4Jw6QdgqqmE_uvpA_ayBQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4394188,-91.1936654,3a,60y,350.23h,87.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sz4Jw6QdgqqmE_uvpA_ayBQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 07, 2019, 11:11:11 AM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ErmineNotyours on November 07, 2019, 10:23:27 PM
I remember Omni Magazine stating that nobody knows which of the two Dakotas was admitted to the Union first, because they were admitted at about the same time, and the present who signed the orders covered his hand and nobody could see which state he signed in first.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on November 29, 2019, 12:50:14 PM

Yes Half as interesting did a segment on Islands

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzqbPHlzIJ0)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on November 30, 2019, 05:43:20 PM
That particular episode seems to be a plug for the third "season" of the creator's podcast Extremities, which itself could qualify for this thread, given its focus on people living in geographically remote places.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 06, 2019, 11:22:03 AM



In this video there is an explanation on how Google Maps are different varying on country borders.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 24, 2019, 12:48:02 PM



Monowi the incorporated town with one person


Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 28, 2019, 06:06:12 AM
Due to Earth not being a perfect sphere, even if the 49th Parallel segment of the USA/Canada border was exactly at 49°N it wouldn't still be a perfect straight line. In fact a straight line from the Lake of the Woods to the Strait of Georgia drifts North of the border, reaching up to 100 km into Canada halfway along it near Maple Creek, Saskatchewan.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on December 28, 2019, 04:05:35 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 28, 2019, 06:06:12 AM
Due to Earth not being a perfect sphere, even if the 49th Parallel segment of the USA/Canada border was exactly at 49°N it wouldn't still be a perfect straight line. In fact a straight line from the Lake of the Woods to the Strait of Georgia drifts North of the border, reaching up to 100 km into Canada halfway along it near Maple Creek, Saskatchewan.

A perfectly straight line between those two points would be completely underground.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on December 28, 2019, 05:20:07 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 28, 2019, 06:06:12 AM
Due to Earth not being a perfect sphere, even if the 49th Parallel segment of the USA/Canada border was exactly at 49°N it wouldn't still be a perfect straight line. In fact a straight line from the Lake of the Woods to the Strait of Georgia drifts North of the border, reaching up to 100 km into Canada halfway along it near Maple Creek, Saskatchewan.

This is not due to the Earth not being a perfect sphere. The line you speak of would still go north in the same way you describe even if the Earth were the mathematically ideal sphere.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Terry on December 31, 2019, 04:55:48 PM
The 49th parallel should be many short chords that intersect 49 degrees N. However, with the best survey methods available at the time, the border monuments wander to the north and south of 49. Here's a chart from the Degree Confluence Project that show more of the extreme survey monument cairns that deviate from the 49th. The furthest north is around the Abbotsford, B.C. airport (monuments 4 & 5) while the southernmost point is monument 347, east of Coutts, Alberta.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fconfluence.org%2Fgraphics%2F49thborder.png&hash=cbdd541297aa035ebb62acc0abe33b9cdff8cacb)

http://confluence.org/country.php?id=3

Story on the history of the border: https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/a-not-so-straight-story/ or https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SklK_wN5lCgJ:https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/a-not-so-straight-story/+&cd=30&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&mtrref=www.google.ca&assetType=REGIWALL&mtrref=webcache.googleusercontent.com&assetType=REGIWALL&mtrref=webcache.googleusercontent.com&assetType=REGIWALL&mtrref=webcache.googleusercontent.com&gwh=E0A0097D36F8C8BC2A6F9CEAEDF5A264&gwt=pay&assetType=REGIWALL
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 05, 2020, 06:12:35 AM
Taiwan is a real-life Alanland in that is and is not China at the same time. The official name of the country commonly known as "Taiwan" is Republic of China, thus making it part of China, but at the same time it is not de facto part of the country commonly known as "China", i.e. the People's Republic of China.

Then there are the Jinmen or Kinmen islands, which are neither China nor Taiwan. They are not part of the PRC (thus not "China") but of the RoC, which doesn't consider them part of Taiwan either but a separate Fujian province. So there are actually two Fujian provinces: The PRC one and the RoC one.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 28, 2019, 05:20:07 PM
This is not due to the Earth not being a perfect sphere. The line you speak of would still go north in the same way you describe even if the Earth were the mathematically ideal sphere.

I stand corrected. It is due to Earth's own shape, not due to it not being a perfect sphere.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on January 05, 2020, 02:02:50 PM
The above is not really true–for pretty much all intents and purposes, Taiwan is an independent country. Whether you recognize it as such depends on whether you feel the need to kiss the PRC's ass or not.

The government in residence on Taiwan is the same government that ruled China before the PRC was established. When the PRC took over, they lost de facto control over mainland China and only were able to keep control over Taiwan. But they still claimed de jure control over all of China, and were part of the UN under the name "China" (representing mainland China as well) for decades after the PRC was established. This was due to the West not wanting to recognize the Communist PRC regime, until finally everyone bowed to reality and admitted the PRC as the government of China.

Meanwhile, the PRC asserts that they also control Taiwan, even though it is de facto controlled by the Republic of China. But if anyone implies Taiwan is not part of the PRC, they throw a tantrum, because the PRC government is run by babies.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on January 08, 2020, 12:51:53 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on January 05, 2020, 06:12:35 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 28, 2019, 05:20:07 PM
This is not due to the Earth not being a perfect sphere. The line you speak of would still go north in the same way you describe even if the Earth were the mathematically ideal sphere.

I stand corrected. It is due to Earth's own shape, not due to it not being a perfect sphere.

Right, it's due to the 49th parallel not being a great circle (the equator is the only parallel that is), nor a rhumb line (a line of constant bearing, which describes a helical sort of shape on the Earth's surface but a straight line on mariners' charts).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheGrassGuy on January 08, 2020, 01:44:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2020, 02:02:50 PM
The above is not really true–for pretty much all intents and purposes, Taiwan is an independent country. Whether you recognize it as such depends on whether you feel the need to kiss the PRC's ass or not.

The government in residence on Taiwan is the same government that ruled China before the PRC was established. When the PRC took over, they lost de facto control over mainland China and only were able to keep control over Taiwan. But they still claimed de jure control over all of China, and were part of the UN under the name "China" (representing mainland China as well) for decades after the PRC was established. This was due to the West not wanting to recognize the Communist PRC regime, until finally everyone bowed to reality and admitted the PRC as the government of China.

Meanwhile, the PRC asserts that they also control Taiwan, even though it is de facto controlled by the Republic of China. But if anyone implies Taiwan is not part of the PRC, they throw a tantrum, because the PRC government is run by babies.
It's a LOOOOOOONG story.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 25, 2020, 07:25:11 AM
This:
Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2020, 05:03:12 PM
Quote from: Jbte on January 04, 2020, 12:08:05 PM
South by car;
Playa Zipolite, Oaxaca, Mexico
15°39'42.1"N 96°30'28.3"W

At first, I was surprised you hadn't been to the Cañón del Sumidero, Tuxtla Gtz, or San Cristóbal.  But then I realized I was forgetting how far south the coastline of Oaxaca sweeps.  And Zipolite is about as far south along there as you can get–at the same latitude as Pijijiapan, Chis.

-------------------------------
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2020, 02:02:50 PM
Meanwhile, the PRC asserts that they also control Taiwan, even though it is de facto controlled by the Republic of China.

Not entirely true. "China" (the PRC) admits they don't control Taiwan, and as such they don't maintain a symbolic Taiwan provincial government. They even have dropped the G99 expressway from their plans, which called for a ring around Taiwan, much like G98 around Hainan. But of course this doesn't mean they have renounced their claim.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on January 25, 2020, 11:19:26 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on January 25, 2020, 07:25:11 AM
This:
Quote from: kphoger on January 04, 2020, 05:03:12 PM
Quote from: Jbte on January 04, 2020, 12:08:05 PM
South by car;
Playa Zipolite, Oaxaca, Mexico
15°39'42.1"N 96°30'28.3"W

At first, I was surprised you hadn't been to the Cañón del Sumidero, Tuxtla Gtz, or San Cristóbal.  But then I realized I was forgetting how far south the coastline of Oaxaca sweeps.  And Zipolite is about as far south along there as you can get–at the same latitude as Pijijiapan, Chis.

-------------------------------
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 05, 2020, 02:02:50 PM
Meanwhile, the PRC asserts that they also control Taiwan, even though it is de facto controlled by the Republic of China.

Not entirely true. "China" (the PRC) admits they don't control Taiwan, and as such they don't maintain a symbolic Taiwan provincial government. They even have dropped the G99 expressway from their plans, which called for a ring around Taiwan, much like G98 around Hainan. But of course this doesn't mean they have renounced their claim.
And yet they still force companies to apologise for making shirts with China that don't include Taiwan.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on October 21, 2020, 11:17:24 PM
I found this interesting. The northernmost point of Brazil is closer to every other country in the Americas, than it is the southernmost point of Brazil.
(https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/5f86bc73d7902_d4f52drin3o51-png__700.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on October 22, 2020, 03:34:10 PM
*cough*Denmark*cough*
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 22, 2020, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: empirestate on October 22, 2020, 03:34:10 PM
*cough*Denmark*cough*

I'm not sure whether to place Greenland in North America or not. While it's close to Canada, it's also not that far from Iceland. We can't use the metric of whatever is closest, as that would actually put Iceland in North America, as Iceland—Faroe Islands is longer than Iceland—Greenland.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on October 22, 2020, 03:46:05 PM
Greenland isn't a country.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on October 22, 2020, 03:49:52 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 22, 2020, 03:43:12 PM
Quote from: empirestate on October 22, 2020, 03:34:10 PM
*cough*Denmark*cough*

I'm not sure whether to place Greenland in North America or not. While it's close to Canada, it's also not that far from Iceland. We can't use the metric of whatever is closest, as that would actually put Iceland in North America, as Iceland—Faroe Islands is longer than Iceland—Greenland.

Sure, tectonically and so forth, Greenland's associated with the North American continent; Iceland is actually on the plate boundary, hence its relatively active geology. In any case, to the extent that any insular area can be considered part of a continent, well...if Bermuda is in the Americas, then Greenland most certainly is.

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 22, 2020, 03:46:05 PM
Greenland isn't a country.

Depends who you ask (see also England, Scotland and so forth). Denmark, however, unquestionably is.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 22, 2020, 03:54:33 PM
St. Pierre and Miquelon (part of France): 2,876 miles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 22, 2020, 04:13:36 PM
However Brazil borders French Guiana, which (as its name suggests) is also part of France, and a full department of that country, unlike St. Pierre and Miquelon (which is a territorial overseas community).

As a matter of fact, I used to think French Guiana was an independent country until I saw it on an inset in a map of France. I was surprised by that.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 22, 2020, 06:45:25 PM
Yep, Brazil's northernmost point is closer to France than it is to Peru.

Greenland is geologically part of North America but culturally part of Europe.  It sharing a tectonic plate with Canada is really the only reason we don't call it its own continent, as we do Australia.

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 22, 2020, 03:46:05 PM
Greenland isn't a country.

Doesn't matter whether it's its own country or part of Denmark.  Either way, it's farther away than Brazil's southernmost point.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Takumi on October 22, 2020, 07:16:48 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 22, 2020, 04:13:36 PM
However Brazil borders French Guiana, which (as its name suggests) is also part of France, and a full department of that country, unlike St. Pierre and Miquelon (which is a territorial overseas community).

As a matter of fact, I used to think French Guiana was an independent country until I saw it on an inset in a map of France. I was surprised by that.
In that case, Brazil is also closer to the Netherlands (via Aruba and Curaçao) than to the likes of Panama.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on October 22, 2020, 11:40:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 22, 2020, 06:45:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 22, 2020, 03:46:05 PM
Greenland isn't a country.

Doesn't matter whether it's its own country or part of Denmark.  Either way, it's farther away than Brazil's southernmost point.

I'm being pedantic. The map is titled "Brazil's northernmost point is closer to every country in the Americas than to Brazil's southernmost point." Greenland isn't a country. It is a territory of Denmark. Denmark is a country in Europe, not a country in the Americas. So the wording on the map is technically correct, the best kind of correct.

Mostly unrelated, I was kind of surprised recently to find out that Copenhagen is on an island.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 23, 2020, 08:09:41 AM
I've just found by measuring in Google Maps that Hamlin, Maine is closer to Spain than to Lompoc, California (by 30 miles or so). Now that is something.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 23, 2020, 08:17:56 AM
I just figured out myself that slightly over 60% of current US routes enter the former Confederacy. I did not include West Virginia, as it split off.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thspfc on October 23, 2020, 08:52:23 AM
Quote from: 1 on October 23, 2020, 08:17:56 AM
I just figured out myself that slightly over 60% of current US routes enter the former Confederacy. I did not include West Virginia, as it split off.
Give it a week and the L.A. Times is going to see this post and call for the decomissioning of all those US routes.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on October 23, 2020, 11:48:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 22, 2020, 11:40:35 PM
Mostly unrelated, I was kind of surprised recently to find out that Copenhagen is on an island.

Being a geography nerd, I found that out a long time ago now, but it's one of those things that people might go their entire life without knowing and I wouldn't really blame them. As a point of comparison, there's probably plenty of people in Europe that don't know Montreal is on an island. Then again, there's probably plenty of people in the US that don't know that, either!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 23, 2020, 01:50:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 22, 2020, 11:40:35 PM
I'm being pedantic. The map is titled "Brazil's northernmost point is closer to every country in the Americas than to Brazil's southernmost point." Greenland isn't a country. It is a territory of Denmark. Denmark is a country in Europe, not a country in the Americas. So the wording on the map is technically correct, the best kind of correct.

And see, I was looking at it this way:  Denmark is a country that exists on two continents.  I was considering Greenland to be just as much a part of Denmark (because it's not its own country) as French Guiana is of France.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on October 23, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 22, 2020, 11:40:35 PM
I'm being pedantic. The map is titled "Brazil's northernmost point is closer to every country in the Americas than to Brazil's southernmost point." Greenland isn't a country. It is a territory of Denmark. Denmark is a country in Europe, not a country in the Americas. So the wording on the map is technically correct, the best kind of correct.

We're all being pedantic, that's the whole fun of it. :-)

But if some of the territory of the country of Denmark is in the Americas, then Denmark is a country in the Americas. It certainly wouldn't be the first example of a multi-continental country in the world, nor even in this thread.

There is a good argument to be made that Greenland is not a constituent part of Denmark in the way that French overseas departments are constituent parts of France, or that the constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands are constituent countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, but...

Quote from: kphoger on October 23, 2020, 01:50:36 PM
And see, I was looking at it this way:  Denmark is a country that exists on two continents.  I was considering Greenland to be just as much a part of Denmark (because it's not its own country) as French Guiana is of France.

...there is also a good argument to be made (and many have made it) that, constituent or not, Greenland is indeed its own country, albeit one not totally independent of another sovereignty. Again, this certainly wouldn't be the first example of a non-sovereign country in the world–nor even in this thread. So even if Denmark doesn't qualify, Greenland might!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: qguy on October 26, 2020, 06:32:31 AM
Quote from: empirestate on October 23, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
We're all being pedantic, that's the whole fun of it. :-)

This has got to be the comment of the decade. It's the entire forum in a nutshell!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 26, 2020, 10:40:52 AM
Quote from: empirestate on October 23, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
there is also a good argument to be made (and many have made it) that, constituent or not, Greenland is indeed its own country, albeit one not totally independent of another sovereignty.

I'm curious to know if you would consider French Guiana to be "its own country".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Desert Man on October 26, 2020, 11:24:52 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 26, 2020, 10:40:52 AM
Quote from: empirestate on October 23, 2020, 05:05:43 PM
there is also a good argument to be made (and many have made it) that, constituent or not, Greenland is indeed its own country, albeit one not totally independent of another sovereignty.

I believe French Guiana is the last European colony on a continent, it is officially part of the French Republic. They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others. Greenland is an island, not a continent like Australia who are a "continent-nation-state".

I'm curious to know if you would consider French Guiana to be "its own country".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on October 26, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on October 26, 2020, 11:24:52 AM
They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others.

Wait, so is Quebec part of Latin America...?

My understanding of Latin America was that it was just the Spanish-speaking parts.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 26, 2020, 08:51:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 26, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on October 26, 2020, 11:24:52 AM
They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others.

Wait, so is Quebec part of Latin America...?

My understanding of Latin America was that it was just the Spanish-speaking parts.

That would exclude Brazil.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on October 26, 2020, 09:00:58 PM
I know, but I wasn't sure if "Latin America" was supposed to include Brazil or not.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on October 27, 2020, 12:18:20 AM
I'm guessing the average American hears "Latin America"  and thinks of everything from Mexico down to Cape Horn regardless of political, geographical, or ethnic/language considerations.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on October 27, 2020, 07:21:17 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 26, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on October 26, 2020, 11:24:52 AM
They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others.

Wait, so is Quebec part of Latin America...?

My understanding of Latin America was that it was just the Spanish-speaking parts.

Latin America includes all romance languages. Quebec is excluded by virtue of being part of a predominantly English-speaking country.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2020, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 27, 2020, 07:21:17 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 26, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on October 26, 2020, 11:24:52 AM
They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others.

Wait, so is Quebec part of Latin America...?

My understanding of Latin America was that it was just the Spanish-speaking parts.

Latin America includes all romance languages. Quebec is excluded by virtue of being part of a predominantly English-speaking country.

But Quebec isn't even close to predominantly English speaking.  Both languages are taught in schools but French definitely is emphasized.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on October 27, 2020, 08:22:31 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 27, 2020, 08:17:25 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on October 27, 2020, 07:21:17 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 26, 2020, 08:47:50 PM
Quote from: Desert Man on October 26, 2020, 11:24:52 AM
They are part of so-called Latin America, since French is a Romance language like Spanish and Portuguese...along with Italian, Romanian and Catalan/Valencian among others.

Wait, so is Quebec part of Latin America...?

My understanding of Latin America was that it was just the Spanish-speaking parts.

Latin America includes all romance languages. Quebec is excluded by virtue of being part of a predominantly English-speaking country.

But Quebec isn't even close to predominantly English speaking.  Both languages are taught in schools but French definitely is emphasized.

Right but Latin America is a group of countries and territories, not states or provinces, so as a part of Canada, Quebec is excluded.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 27, 2020, 11:31:11 AM
The term 'Latin America' is not universally defined.  It can mean one of several different things.

Ibero-America is probably what most people think of:  the Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking countries south of the USA.  Thus, it excludes small countries like Haiti and Belize and Suriname, but all the big ones are included.

If you want to include countries that were formerly part of the French empire as well (e.g. Haiti) and not make the US southern border part of the definition, then Quebec still falls outside this definition because Canada is a predominantly English-speaking nation.  In the same way, even through Brownsville (TX) is 85% Spanish-speaking, it wouldn't be part of Latin America either, by virtue of its still being in the USA.

For both of the above two definitions, the Caribbean is a bit of a fuzzy part of the map.  Is Cuba part of Latin America?  Well, probably.  But what about, say, Dominica?  Well, ummmm, errrrr, maybe??
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on October 27, 2020, 01:07:25 PM
I think that at its most basic, the connotation of the term "Latin America" is really just "those parts of the Americas that are not English-speaking"–and specifically, really, those parts that are not the U.S. or Canada.

I also feel like the term refers implicitly to regions of the Americas that are comparable in geo-political extent to the U.S. and Canada–South America, Central Americas, the Caribbean–and thus, its connotation doesn't get as granular as to include either sub-national parts of those two big countries (so, not states or provinces) or sub-regional parts of the other regions (so, not individual nations in the Caribbean).

And all that because, as stated above, the term isn't really explicitly defined. Its meaning tends to fall apart once you apply it to entities smaller than it's meant to apply to, just as the measurement of a coastline falls apart once you start using a ruler or tape measure to do it. To put it another way, "Latin America" means whatever you have to decide it means, in order to confirm the term to its expected usage. :-)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on October 27, 2020, 02:45:55 PM
IMHO, "Latin America" means the Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries and territories to the south of the USA.  It does not include Quebec, nor the remnants of the French colonial system in the Caribbean, nor places that speak languages other than Spanish or Portuguese.  Knitpicky trivia about what a romance language is or what-not is nice, but meaningless.   
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: empirestate on October 27, 2020, 01:07:25 PM
I think that at its most basic, the connotation of the term "Latin America" is really just "those parts of the Americas that are not English-speaking"–and specifically, really, those parts that are not the U.S. or Canada.

Quote from: SP Cook on October 27, 2020, 02:45:55 PM
IMHO, "Latin America" means the Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries and territories to the south of the USA.

Yeah, I'm not sure Guyana and Suriname (location of former British and Dutch colonies, Dutch and English and English Creole widely spoken) are part of Latin America by anyone's definition.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on October 28, 2020, 03:41:05 PM
Atlanta is further west than Detroit?
Not sure why, but that seems really weird to me.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 03:47:42 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2020, 03:41:05 PM
Atlanta is further west than Detroit?
Not sure why, but that seems really weird to me.

It's because people don't realize how far west the Atlantic coast cuts in.

The tip of the Florida panhandle, for example, is due south of Chicago.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on October 28, 2020, 04:06:51 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 03:47:42 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2020, 03:41:05 PM
Atlanta is further west than Detroit?
Not sure why, but that seems really weird to me.

It's because people don't realize how far west the Atlantic coast cuts in.

All too true. I think of Florida as being due south from here, and perhaps even south-southeast. But no. If I headed due south, I'd venture off into the Atlantic somewhere around Wilmington, NC. I know that, but it will never seem that way in my brain.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on October 28, 2020, 08:00:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: empirestate on October 27, 2020, 01:07:25 PM
I think that at its most basic, the connotation of the term "Latin America" is really just "those parts of the Americas that are not English-speaking"–and specifically, really, those parts that are not the U.S. or Canada.

Quote from: SP Cook on October 27, 2020, 02:45:55 PM
IMHO, "Latin America" means the Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries and territories to the south of the USA.

Yeah, I'm not sure Guyana and Suriname (location of former British and Dutch colonies, Dutch and English and English Creole widely spoken) are part of Latin America by anyone's definition.

I am–even in the course of this discussion, I've read some definitions by which they are a part of it. But what's important to my point isn't so much the definition, but rather the connotation of the term. It doesn't seem to be applicable, at least not by intent, on such a small scale that you'd even be called on to decide whether individual countries like the Guianas are included. It describes a large region having certain broad characteristics, and those countries are indisputably physically within that region, even if they may not possess the particular attributes that are characteristic of the region as a whole.

An example of what I mean might be to consider the difference between a "sand beach" and a "rock beach". A sand beach is one composed primarily of sand, even though it might have some rocks on it; and a rock beach unquestionably has more than a few grains of sand. As you move along the coastline, you may well find yourself having clearly left behind one type of beach for the other, but you wouldn't change your description of the area you're standing in just because you found a small pocket of a different material.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GenExpwy on October 29, 2020, 03:10:12 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2020, 04:06:51 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 28, 2020, 03:47:42 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2020, 03:41:05 PM
Atlanta is further west than Detroit?
Not sure why, but that seems really weird to me.

It's because people don't realize how far west the Atlantic coast cuts in.

All too true. I think of Florida as being due south from here, and perhaps even south-southeast. But no. If I headed due south, I'd venture off into the Atlantic somewhere around Wilmington, NC. I know that, but it will never seem that way in my brain.

Some of that is probably due to the projections used by the maps you look at – at the edges, north—south runs diagonally rather than vertically.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bluecountry on November 01, 2020, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: Thing 342 on November 29, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
The western tip of Virginia is further west than Toledo, OH.
Because portions of the Aleutian islands extend west of 180W, Alaska is both the northernmost, westernmost, and easternmost state in the US.
Or Detroit.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on November 01, 2020, 02:05:46 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on November 01, 2020, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: Thing 342 on November 29, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
The western tip of Virginia is further west than Toledo, OH.
Because portions of the Aleutian islands extend west of 180W, Alaska is both the northernmost, westernmost, and easternmost state in the US.
Or Detroit.

I dunno, I've been to both Alaska and Detroit, and they're quite dissimilar. :spin:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: cpzilliacus on November 02, 2020, 07:59:23 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 22, 2020, 11:40:35 PM
Mostly unrelated, I was kind of surprised recently to find out that Copenhagen is on an island.

Only in recent times (since 1995) has the island of Zealand (Danish Sjælland) been connected to mainland places in Denmark and in Sweden. Before that, all land traffic (including a lot of railroad traffic) had to move by ferries (I have ridden the ferry that used to float passenger train traffic from the Swedish city of Helsingborg to the Danish city of Helsingør (Elsinore in English - it's the same place that William Shakespeare used for his play Hamlet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamlet))).   

The Great Belt Fixed Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Belt_Fixed_Link) (consists of a long box girder bridge and a big suspension span plus a long tunnel for railroad traffic) came first, open in 1998 and connected Zealand and the Jutland peninsula, and thus continental Europe. 

In 2000, the Øresund Bridge-Tunnel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98resund_Bridge) opened, connecting Zealand to the Swedish province of Scania allowing a significant improvement in travel time for highway and rail traffic (the lower deck of the bridge is occupied by two railroad tracks).

The one remaining busy ferry operation in Denmark that carries railroad and highway traffic operates between the Danish town of Rødby and the northern German harbor of Puttgarden, but that too will be replaced by the end of this decade with the Fehmarn Belt Fixed Link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn_Belt_Fixed_Link), which will be a long (17.6 kilometer (10.9 miles)) immersed tube tunnel with four highway lanes and two electrified railroad tracks.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Flint1979 on November 02, 2020, 08:44:47 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 28, 2020, 03:41:05 PM
Atlanta is further west than Detroit?
Not sure why, but that seems really weird to me.
If you've ever traveled south on I-75 you'll notice that it leans a little more to the west than to the east or on a straight line. It runs southwest out of Detroit, then has a northeast-southwest curve between Findlay and Lima, Ohio. Cincinnati is slightly more west than Dayton is too. In Kentucky it slightly goes more east but once you get to Tennessee it starts going more west again, then has the concurrency with I-40 where it's going west even more. After it gets back on it's own routing it runs southwest to Chattanooga. After entering Georgia though it starts running more east towards Atlanta. Still though it's west of Detroit slightly. Atlanta is due south of Cincinnati though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on November 02, 2020, 08:52:33 AM
Los Angeles - Chicago - Boston is a straight line once you account for the curvature of the earth.

As a corollary, this means that US 6 might actually be less curved than US 20, despite US 6 heading south near its western end.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 02, 2020, 12:40:40 PM
Yep, US 6 is way straighter than US 20, both in the map and taking Earth's curvature into account. Dipping South helps US 6, while US 20 has to swing South (on top of the detour to Yellowstone): A straight line between US 20's endpoints goes through North Dakota, while a straight line connecting both endpoints of US 6 stays relatively near its route (note, however, that when US 6 was undisputably the longest US Route it deviated considerably from such a line in Nevada).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 02, 2020, 02:51:31 PM
Quote from: empirestate on November 01, 2020, 02:05:46 PM

Quote from: bluecountry on November 01, 2020, 01:03:24 PM

Quote from: Thing 342 on November 29, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
The western tip of Virginia is further west than Toledo, OH.
Because portions of the Aleutian islands extend west of 180W, Alaska is both the northernmost, westernmost, and easternmost state in the US.

Or Detroit.

I dunno, I've been to both Alaska and Detroit, and they're quite dissimilar. :spin:

No, it meant "Alaska is the northernmost, westernmost, and easternmost state in Detroit".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on November 02, 2020, 03:10:05 PM
Quote from: empirestate on November 01, 2020, 02:05:46 PM
Quote from: bluecountry on November 01, 2020, 01:03:24 PM
Quote from: Thing 342 on November 29, 2015, 09:56:20 AM
The western tip of Virginia is further west than Toledo, OH.
Because portions of the Aleutian islands extend west of 180W, Alaska is both the northernmost, westernmost, and easternmost state in the US.
Or Detroit.

I dunno, I've been to both Alaska and Detroit, and they're quite dissimilar. :spin:

And yet, both are barren wastelands devoid of human life. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 02, 2020, 03:36:18 PM
cold too
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bwana39 on November 18, 2020, 04:47:00 PM
Quote from: Tom958 on November 28, 2015, 01:34:53 PM
Dalhart, TX is closer to parts of twenty three states than it is to its own state's capital.

NO!

Oklahoma, Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas, Utah, Missouri, Nebraska, and MAYBE IOWA.

There might be several different locations in Texas that are closer to multiple states than they are to Austin which together MIGHT add up to 23
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on November 18, 2020, 04:51:33 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on November 18, 2020, 04:47:00 PM
Quote from: Tom958 on November 28, 2015, 01:34:53 PM
Dalhart, TX is closer to parts of twenty three states than it is to its own state's capital.

NO!

Oklahoma, Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Wyoming, Kansas, Utah, Missouri, Nebraska, and MAYBE IOWA.

There might be several different locations in Texas that are closer to multiple states than they are to Austin which together MIGHT add up to 23

Replacing Austin with Port Arthur, and including Mexican states, I count exactly 23.

TX, NM, AZ, NV, ID, UT, MT, WY, SD, NE, KS, OK, MN, IA, MO, AR, LA, Tamaulipas, Nuevo Leon, Coahuila, Chihuahua, Sonora, Durango. Add IL (#24) if you measure to the extreme southeast corner of Texas.

However, you're replying to a 2015 post.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 18, 2020, 05:22:35 PM
I already answered that back in the day (and yes, Iowa can be thrown in) (quote fixed):
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 28, 2015, 02:13:30 PM
12 plus two Mexican states, actually :sombrero:. There is even a part in extreme southwestern Iowa that is closer to Dalhart TX than the Texas capitol.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CoreySamson on November 19, 2020, 01:54:44 PM
What blows me away is that Orlando is further east than Jacksonville.

Also, Houston is pretty far south. New Orleans and Cairo both lie north of it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: I-55 on November 19, 2020, 03:10:58 PM
If you draw a straight line connecting I-65's two termini, the route deviates to as far as 100 miles away from the line between Louisville and Elizabethtown, Kentucky (with a length of only 887 miles). Other than ~18 miles combined near its termini, the entirety of I-65 exists east of this line.

If you take I-65's outline and the line between termini, you can kind of see a mountain.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KCRoadFan on November 24, 2020, 10:16:27 PM
I was surprised to find out that Louisville, KY is north of San Francisco.

Louisville - 38.2 north latitude
SF - 37.8 north

In addition:

Los Angeles (34.0 north) is north of Atlanta (33.75 north).
The southern tip of the Baja California peninsula in Mexico is at about the same longitude as Four Corners (AZ/NM and UT/CO borders).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on November 25, 2020, 02:11:11 AM
Seattle is at a latitude that is further north than St. Johns, Newfoundland
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GenExpwy on November 25, 2020, 06:51:44 AM
The home football stadiums of five Division I universities (Temple, Penn, Ohio State, Illinois, Colorado) are each within 7 miles of 40° North latitude.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KCRoadFan on November 25, 2020, 10:03:14 AM
Quote from: GenExpwy on November 25, 2020, 06:51:44 AM
The home football stadiums of five Division I universities (Temple, Penn, Ohio State, Illinois, Colorado) are each within 7 miles of 40° North latitude.

I guess I didn't think that Boulder and Philly would be at the same latitude.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on November 25, 2020, 10:37:58 AM
And a section of line 15 of the Beijing subway straddles that latitude as well. Now that is something.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: keithvh on December 16, 2020, 06:43:18 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on October 15, 2019, 10:28:58 PM
Arkansas borders six other states.  It is possible to start somewhere in Arkansas, travel due south, and be able to cross into any of the bordering states.

(A different point for each of the bordering states)

This is true for Tennessee also, except that Tennessee borders 8 different states.

(1-4) MS, AL, NC, and GA are obvious.

(5-6) due to the curves of the Mississippi, one can go south from TN into either MO or AR.

(7) at Land of the Lakes, there is a spot to go south from TN into KY.

(8) TN has a little notch at its NE Corner, from which you can go south into VA.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on December 16, 2020, 10:56:37 PM
Quote from: keithvh on December 16, 2020, 06:43:18 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on October 15, 2019, 10:28:58 PM
Arkansas borders six other states.  It is possible to start somewhere in Arkansas, travel due south, and be able to cross into any of the bordering states.

(A different point for each of the bordering states)

This is true for Tennessee also, except that Tennessee borders 8 different states.

(1-4) MS, AL, NC, and GA are obvious.

(5-6) due to the curves of the Mississippi, one can go south from TN into either MO or AR.

(7) at Land of the Lakes, there is a spot to go south from TN into KY.

(8) TN has a little notch at its NE Corner, from which you can go south into VA.

It's also true for New York, including the province of Ontario–but not Quebec. (And you also have to exclude the maritime boundary with Rhode Island.)

However, if you switch to due north, it works everywhere, including Quebec and Rhode Island. You can also make it work with east, although some of the jogs are quite minuscule to do this.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SkyPesos on December 16, 2020, 10:57:07 PM
I found out a couple of days ago the Pittsburgh (longitude -79.9959) is east of Miami (-80.1918), and Jacksonville (-81.6557) and Cleveland (-81.6944) are very close as well.. So for those people that really hate diagonal roads, keep in mind that I-95 in FL is in the same grid position as I-77 and I-79.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on February 12, 2021, 12:49:45 PM
The population within Boston's first beltway (128 and former 128), between the first and second beltways (I-495 and MA 25), and between the second and third beltways (NH 101/NH 13/MA 13/I-190/MA 146/RI 146/I-195, and then following MA 25) is almost exactly the same, with approximately 1.8 million people each.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 1995hoo on February 13, 2021, 08:36:01 AM
Quote from: webny99 on October 23, 2020, 11:48:06 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 22, 2020, 11:40:35 PM
Mostly unrelated, I was kind of surprised recently to find out that Copenhagen is on an island.

Being a geography nerd, I found that out a long time ago now, but it's one of those things that people might go their entire life without knowing and I wouldn't really blame them. As a point of comparison, there's probably plenty of people in Europe that don't know Montreal is on an island. Then again, there's probably plenty of people in the US that don't know that, either!

I'd wager there are a fair number of people, even New York City residents, who don't know that Brooklyn and Queens are predominantly located on Long Island ("predominantly" to account for various small islands within those boroughs). The combination of all the bridges and tunnels leading to the other three boroughs, the overall size of the area, the signs guiding you east to Long Island, and the idea of "Long Island" culturally being distinct from New York City all give the illusion that Brooklyn and Queens are part of the mainland, when really the only part of New York City that's on the mainland is the Bronx and, legally, one small part of Manhattan (Marble Hill).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on February 13, 2021, 04:05:55 PM
Due to international borders it's easy to overlook how densely populated northwestern Europe is.

Southeastern Netherlands is a logistics hotspot, because you can reach nearly 150 million people within a 500 km / 6 hour truck driving radius.

(https://i.imgur.com/IstGZcc.png)

By comparison, if you drop a point near Philadelphia, you get less than half that in a 500 km  (300 mi) radius: 68 million people.

(https://i.imgur.com/7olXcPa.png)

Tool: https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on February 13, 2021, 05:56:00 PM
Quote from: Chris on February 13, 2021, 04:05:55 PM
Due to international borders it's easy to overlook how densely populated northwestern Europe is.

Southeastern Netherlands is a logistics hotspot, because you can reach nearly 150 million people within a 500 km / 6 hour truck driving radius.

By comparison, if you drop a point near Philadelphia, you get less than half that in a 500 km  (300 mi) radius: 68 million people.

Tool: https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm
Not a very good comparison, IMHO, as there are much more mountains in US circle than in European. I would rather from the blue banana shape on the coastal US
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on February 13, 2021, 06:09:15 PM
California isn't very densely populated, though (think your miles upon miles of suburbia there, compared to metro NYC, which falls within the circle Chris used), and is also mountainous.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on February 13, 2021, 06:35:28 PM
Quote from: Chris on February 13, 2021, 04:05:55 PM
Due to international borders it's easy to overlook how densely populated northwestern Europe is.

Southeastern Netherlands is a logistics hotspot, because you can reach nearly 150 million people within a 500 km / 6 hour truck driving radius.
[img snipped]

By comparison, if you drop a point near Philadelphia, you get less than half that in a 500 km  (300 mi) radius: 68 million people.
[img snipped]

Tool: https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm

That's a cool tool!

You're not going to find anywhere in North America with 150 million people in a 500 km radius, but there are plenty of places that can do better than Philadelphia. Here's a few examples:

Binghamton, NY: 84,030,730
Scranton, PA: 82,733,220
Syracuse, NY: 82,542,770
Rochester, NY: 81,752,040


Quote from: Scott5114 on February 13, 2021, 06:09:15 PM
California isn't very densely populated, though (think your miles upon miles of suburbia there, compared to metro NYC, which falls within the circle Chris used), and is also mountainous.

California's suburbia (including both LA and San Fran here) is much more dense than NYC's suburbia. NYC suburbs in places like Rockland County, NY, and Somerset County, NJ feel rural by comparison to anything in California.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on February 13, 2021, 06:43:51 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2021, 06:35:28 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 13, 2021, 06:09:15 PM
California isn't very densely populated, though (think your miles upon miles of suburbia there, compared to metro NYC, which falls within the circle Chris used), and is also mountainous.

California's suburbia (including both LA and San Fran here) is much more dense than NYC's suburbia. NYC suburbs in places like Rockland County, NY, and Somerset County, NJ feel rural by comparison to anything in California.


Not the point–you won't find anything as densely populated as Manhattan in California, is what I'm saying. And even if you drop it on something like downtown San Francisco, you're not going to have a Boston or Philadelphia in the circle too.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on February 13, 2021, 07:37:31 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 13, 2021, 06:43:51 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2021, 06:35:28 PM
California's suburbia (including both LA and San Fran here) is much more dense than NYC's suburbia. NYC suburbs in places like Rockland County, NY, and Somerset County, NJ feel rural by comparison to anything in California.

Not the point–you won't find anything as densely populated as Manhattan in California, is what I'm saying. And even if you drop it on something like downtown San Francisco, you're not going to have a Boston or Philadelphia in the circle too.

Maybe you won't find any single area as dense as Manhattan, but the overall density of the LA/San Fran areas would be higher.

To the original point about California being mountainous, I don't think we'd be using anything in California as part of the zone of 150 million... it would presumably be the East Coast only.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SkyPesos on February 13, 2021, 07:58:42 PM
Quote from: Chris on February 13, 2021, 04:05:55 PM
Due to international borders it's easy to overlook how densely populated northwestern Europe is.

Southeastern Netherlands is a logistics hotspot, because you can reach nearly 150 million people within a 500 km / 6 hour truck driving radius.

(https://i.imgur.com/IstGZcc.png)

By comparison, if you drop a point near Philadelphia, you get less than half that in a 500 km  (300 mi) radius: 68 million people.

(https://i.imgur.com/7olXcPa.png)

Tool: https://www.freemaptools.com/find-population.htm
I played around with the tool a bit to see where the most populous 500 km radius would be. Got a couple of results in China above 300 million:
Center in Hefei, Anhui: 360.86 million
Center in Anqing, Anhui: 349.41 million
Center in Jinan, Shandong: 342.69 million

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on February 13, 2021, 09:12:16 PM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2021, 07:37:31 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 13, 2021, 06:43:51 PM

Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2021, 06:35:28 PM
California's suburbia (including both LA and San Fran here) is much more dense than NYC's suburbia. NYC suburbs in places like Rockland County, NY, and Somerset County, NJ feel rural by comparison to anything in California.

Not the point–you won't find anything as densely populated as Manhattan in California, is what I'm saying. And even if you drop it on something like downtown San Francisco, you're not going to have a Boston or Philadelphia in the circle too.

Maybe you won't find any single area as dense as Manhattan, but the overall density of the LA/San Fran areas would be higher.

I'll merely present the data.  Y'all can interpret it.

(https://i.imgur.com/5D3yfxm.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on February 13, 2021, 09:49:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 13, 2021, 09:12:16 PM
I'll merely present the data.  Y'all can interpret it.

[snipped]

That... doesn't really change anything I thought originally. No denying that New York, the city, and its immediate surroundings, are extremely dense. Some suburbs are plenty dense, but that's less true the further afield you travel.

The problem - and this is an issue with some of CA's counties in general - is that San Bernardino and Riverside Counties have tremendous populations crammed into a small area and then thousands of empty miles that exist only to drive the density figure into the basement.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on February 13, 2021, 09:58:06 PM
Smallest congressional districts by area, after Pennsylvania redistricting but before North Carolina redistricting:

1-9: NY-13, 10, 15, 12, 09, 07, 14, 08, 06
10: CA-12 (San Francisco)
11: CA-34 (Los Angeles)
12: NY-05
13: IL-04 (Chicago)
14: PA-03 (Philadelphia)
15: NJ-08 (more NYC)
16: CA-37 (Los Angeles)
17: CA-40 (Los Angeles)
18: PA-02 (Philadelphia)
19: MA-07 (Boston)
20: NY-11 (Staten Island, the least urban of the five boroughs)
... (list continues; 21-24 are all in the LA area)

All top 9 and 12 of the top 20 are in the NYC area.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on February 14, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2021, 09:49:30 PM
The problem - and this is an issue with some of CA's counties in general - is that San Bernardino and Riverside Counties have tremendous populations crammed into a small area and then thousands of empty miles that exist only to drive the density figure into the basement.

Yes, believe me, that was always on my mind while compiling the data.  But I didn't know how else to approach the problem without using numbers for every single individual town.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kenarmy on February 14, 2021, 11:02:44 AM
Greenland is further North, South, East, and West than Iceland.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on February 14, 2021, 11:47:35 AM
Here's a couple. 

Los Angeles to Sydney is longer than San Francisco to Sydney.

And then this map which I find super cool.

https://twitter.com/amazingmap/status/1294654053415354368

Chris
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on February 17, 2021, 04:59:35 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 14, 2021, 10:12:47 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2021, 09:49:30 PM
The problem - and this is an issue with some of CA's counties in general - is that San Bernardino and Riverside Counties have tremendous populations crammed into a small area and then thousands of empty miles that exist only to drive the density figure into the basement.

Yes, believe me, that was always on my mind while compiling the data.  But I didn't know how else to approach the problem without using numbers for every single individual town.

I'm not going to get into the "My Daddy Can Whoop Your Daddy" argument, but Calexico and San Diego (both in California) are northern tips of HUGE Mexican icebergs.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on February 18, 2021, 09:22:29 AM
Quote from: michravera on February 17, 2021, 04:59:35 PM

Quote from: kphoger on February 14, 2021, 10:12:47 AM

Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2021, 09:49:30 PM
The problem - and this is an issue with some of CA's counties in general - is that San Bernardino and Riverside Counties have tremendous populations crammed into a small area and then thousands of empty miles that exist only to drive the density figure into the basement.

Yes, believe me, that was always on my mind while compiling the data.  But I didn't know how else to approach the problem without using numbers for every single individual town.

I'm not going to get into the "My Daddy Can Whoop Your Daddy" argument, but Calexico and San Diego (both in California) are northern tips of HUGE Mexican icebergs.

San Diego can hardly be called the "tip" of a huge Mexican iceberg.

Tijuana proper = 1.8 million pop.
Tijuana metro = 2.2 million pop.

San Diego proper = 1.3 million pop.
San Diego metro = 3.3 million pop.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on March 12, 2021, 02:46:51 PM
https://www.buzzfeed.com/stephenlaconte/geography-fun-facts-reddit
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on March 29, 2021, 11:14:08 PM
Mexico is extends further north than Florida. This was a bit surprising to me but I guess it really shouldn't be.

What I found interesting is that Mexico almost extends further north than Louisiana. The difference in latitude is about 20 miles.

If Mexico had been 20 miles further north, it would have been further north, south, east and west, of Louisiana.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on March 30, 2021, 12:07:20 AM
Quote from: chays on March 29, 2021, 11:14:08 PM
Mexico is extends further north than Florida. This was a bit surprising to me but I guess it really shouldn't be.

What I found interesting is that Mexico almost extends further north than Louisiana. The difference in latitude is about 20 miles.

If Mexico had been 20 miles further north, it would have been further north, south, east and west, of Louisiana.
If Mexico kept it's old land it would extend as far north as the Midwest and Pennsylvania.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on March 30, 2021, 03:09:35 AM
And almost to the latitude where I live. I'm in Aragon at a latitude which also passes through Oregon. Or was it vice-versa? xD
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GenExpwy on March 30, 2021, 05:14:17 AM
The north slope of Alaska is closer to Reykjavík, Iceland, than to any other national capital.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on March 30, 2021, 08:31:47 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 30, 2021, 12:07:20 AM
Quote from: chays on March 29, 2021, 11:14:08 PM
Mexico is extends further north than Florida. This was a bit surprising to me but I guess it really shouldn't be.

What I found interesting is that Mexico almost extends further north than Louisiana. The difference in latitude is about 20 miles.

If Mexico had been 20 miles further north, it would have been further north, south, east and west, of Louisiana.
If Mexico kept it's old land it would extend as far north as the Midwest and Pennsylvania.

And Canada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 01:55:45 AM
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/f12918789dfb76f42b24aa50cfca38a8/d6f5dc4a4894306a-39/s2048x3072/a62c16e64719ddac49d8d24bfef1798c92fcb085.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on April 09, 2021, 11:56:36 AM
Is that from Terrible Maps?

(And what's the story about the purple blotch in Europe? I've obviously missed something.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on April 09, 2021, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 09, 2021, 11:56:36 AM
(And what's the story about the purple blotch in Europe? I've obviously missed something.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arturs_KriÅ¡jānis_KariņÅ¡ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arturs_Kri%C3%85%C2%A1jānis_Kariņ%C3%85%C2%A1)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on April 09, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 01:55:45 AM
Countries where the Head of Government is from Delaware
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/f12918789dfb76f42b24aa50cfca38a8/d6f5dc4a4894306a-39/s2048x3072/a62c16e64719ddac49d8d24bfef1798c92fcb085.png)

I know this is opening a can of worms, but where I'm from we would say that Joe Biden is from Pennsylvania.  In West Virginia, "growing up" is the most number of years between ages 6 and 12.  He was 11 years old when they moved to Wilmington, Delaware.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 02:11:03 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 09, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
I know this is opening a can of worms, but where I'm from we would say that Joe Biden is from Pennsylvania.  In West Virginia, "growing up" is the most number of years between ages 6 and 12.  He was 11 years old when they moved to Wilmington, Delaware.

Sure, but he spent 36 years as a US Senator representing Delaware, so he's associated far more with Delaware than Pennsylvania, even if he spent his childhood in Pennsylvania.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on April 09, 2021, 02:13:05 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 09, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
I know this is opening a can of worms, but where I'm from we would say that Joe Biden is from Pennsylvania.  In West Virginia, "growing up" is the most number of years between ages 6 and 12.  He was 11 years old when they moved to Wilmington, Delaware.

The worm I'm most intrigued by is that there's a regional variation on what it means to be "from" somewhere. What are the specifics of this variation?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on April 09, 2021, 02:20:27 PM
Quote from: GaryV on March 30, 2021, 08:31:47 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 30, 2021, 12:07:20 AM
Quote from: chays on March 29, 2021, 11:14:08 PM
Mexico is extends further north than Florida. This was a bit surprising to me but I guess it really shouldn't be.

What I found interesting is that Mexico almost extends further north than Louisiana. The difference in latitude is about 20 miles.

If Mexico had been 20 miles further north, it would have been further north, south, east and west, of Louisiana.
If Mexico kept it's old land it would extend as far north as the Midwest and Pennsylvania.

And Canada.

How do you figure?  Looking at historical maps of Mexico it looks like it only went as far north as the Great Salt Lake.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 02:23:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 02:11:03 PM

Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 09, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
I know this is opening a can of worms, but where I'm from we would say that Joe Biden is from Pennsylvania.  In West Virginia, "growing up" is the most number of years between ages 6 and 12.  He was 11 years old when they moved to Wilmington, Delaware.

Sure, but he spent 36 years as a US Senator representing Delaware, so he's associated far more with Delaware than Pennsylvania, even if he spent his childhood in Pennsylvania.

And Arturs KriÅ¡jānis KariņÅ¡ left Delaware after graduating high school.  He attended college in Maryland, Pennsylvania, and abroad.  He has lived in Latvia for 24 years, which is longer than he lived in Delaware.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 02:26:20 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 09, 2021, 02:20:27 PM

Quote from: GaryV on March 30, 2021, 08:31:47 AM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 30, 2021, 12:07:20 AM

Quote from: chays on March 29, 2021, 11:14:08 PM
Mexico is extends further north than Florida. This was a bit surprising to me but I guess it really shouldn't be.

What I found interesting is that Mexico almost extends further north than Louisiana. The difference in latitude is about 20 miles.

If Mexico had been 20 miles further north, it would have been further north, south, east and west, of Louisiana.

If Mexico kept it's old land it would extend as far north as the Midwest and Pennsylvania.

And Canada.

How do you figure?  Looking at historical maps of Mexico it looks like it only went as far north as the Great Salt Lake.

A quick and dirty internet search leads me to think the only part of Canada farther south than Mexico's most northerly border would be Pelee Island.  I'm open to correction, of course.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 09, 2021, 02:26:39 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 09, 2021, 02:13:05 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 09, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
I know this is opening a can of worms, but where I'm from we would say that Joe Biden is from Pennsylvania.  In West Virginia, "growing up" is the most number of years between ages 6 and 12.  He was 11 years old when they moved to Wilmington, Delaware.

The worm I'm most intrigued by is that there's a regional variation on what it means to be "from" somewhere. What are the specifics of this variation?

I think it's all down to what the individual feels connected to as where they're "from". People will probably harangue me for this, but I felt much more connected to Duluth than Minneapolis even though I have lived for far more of my life in the latter, so I sometimes tell people I'm from Duluth instead.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on April 09, 2021, 02:44:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 02:26:20 PM
A quick and dirty internet search leads me to think the only part of Canada farther south than Mexico's most northerly border would be Pelee Island.  I'm open to correction, of course.

If Mexico extended all the way to the parallel 42° then Point Pelee National Park is also South of that line (and by extension South of my latitude).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on April 10, 2021, 12:34:41 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 09, 2021, 02:26:39 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 09, 2021, 02:13:05 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 09, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
I know this is opening a can of worms, but where I'm from we would say that Joe Biden is from Pennsylvania.  In West Virginia, "growing up" is the most number of years between ages 6 and 12.  He was 11 years old when they moved to Wilmington, Delaware.

The worm I'm most intrigued by is that there's a regional variation on what it means to be "from" somewhere. What are the specifics of this variation?

I think it's all down to what the individual feels connected to as where they're "from". People will probably harangue me for this, but I felt much more connected to Duluth than Minneapolis even though I have lived for far more of my life in the latter, so I sometimes tell people I'm from Duluth instead.

That's how I'd use it, too. But Dirt Roads specifically says "where I'm from we would say..." and explains that where one is "from" is different from where one "grew up." I didn't know about that regionalism before (but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on April 10, 2021, 12:42:04 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 02:23:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 02:11:03 PM

Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 09, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
I know this is opening a can of worms, but where I'm from we would say that Joe Biden is from Pennsylvania.  In West Virginia, "growing up" is the most number of years between ages 6 and 12.  He was 11 years old when they moved to Wilmington, Delaware.

Sure, but he spent 36 years as a US Senator representing Delaware, so he's associated far more with Delaware than Pennsylvania, even if he spent his childhood in Pennsylvania.

And Arturs KriÅ¡jānis KariņÅ¡ left Delaware after graduating high school.  He attended college in Maryland, Pennsylvania, and abroad.  He has lived in Latvia for 24 years, which is longer than he lived in Delaware.

I mean, the "oddity that defies conventional wisdom" on the map is that one wouldn't expect any world leaders at all to be tied to such a minor state, but if any world leader was going to be tied to a minor state, you would expect it to be the country that state is in, the United States. It defies conventional wisdom that any other country's leader would have ties at all to the United States, let alone the specific state that the current President of the United States is tied to.

Now, are we done sucking all the fun out of this geographic oddity? :D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on April 10, 2021, 01:39:15 AM
Quote from: empirestate on April 10, 2021, 12:34:41 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 09, 2021, 02:26:39 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 09, 2021, 02:13:05 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 09, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
I know this is opening a can of worms, but where I'm from we would say that Joe Biden is from Pennsylvania.  In West Virginia, "growing up" is the most number of years between ages 6 and 12.  He was 11 years old when they moved to Wilmington, Delaware.

The worm I'm most intrigued by is that there's a regional variation on what it means to be "from" somewhere. What are the specifics of this variation?

I think it's all down to what the individual feels connected to as where they're "from". People will probably harangue me for this, but I felt much more connected to Duluth than Minneapolis even though I have lived for far more of my life in the latter, so I sometimes tell people I'm from Duluth instead.

That's how I'd use it, too. But Dirt Roads specifically says "where I'm from we would say..." and explains that where one is "from" is different from where one "grew up." I didn't know about that regionalism before (but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist).

When it comes down to it, Biden referred to PA as the state where he was from in an attempt to garner voters from Pennsylvaniers more than anything.  But most people will agree that he's from Delaware, as that's the state he's lived in for 5 or 6 decades.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 10, 2021, 04:27:15 AM
Which state was Abraham Lincoln from?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on April 10, 2021, 09:28:16 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2021, 04:27:15 AM
Which state was Abraham Lincoln from?

Born in Kentucky, but Illinois is the answer most people would give.


Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 10, 2021, 01:39:15 AM
... Pennsylvaniers ...

Off-topic, but isn't it "Pennsylvanians"?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 10, 2021, 09:52:34 AM
Interesting note about the "where are you from" discussion. Jeopardy traditionally introduces contestants at the top of the show as being "from" wherever they live at the time they are on the show. Because of COVID, the first several weeks of the current season were open only to CA residents. I noticed that some of the contestants were being introduced as being "originally from" somewhere instead of "from" somewhere. It eliminated the monotony of every contestant being announced as "from" somewhere in CA. Even now that loosened restrictions have allowed people from other states to compete, I notice that some contestants are still being introduced as "originally from" somewhere.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on April 10, 2021, 11:16:18 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on April 09, 2021, 02:44:47 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 02:26:20 PM
A quick and dirty internet search leads me to think the only part of Canada farther south than Mexico's most northerly border would be Pelee Island.  I'm open to correction, of course.

If Mexico extended all the way to the parallel 42° then Point Pelee National Park is also South of that line (and by extension South of my latitude).

Okay, thanks to both of you.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on April 10, 2021, 06:20:17 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 10, 2021, 09:28:16 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2021, 04:27:15 AM
Which state was Abraham Lincoln from?

Born in Kentucky, but Illinois is the answer most people would give.

Unless they're from West Virginia! ;-)


Moving on to a new oddity...
At least two states have capitals whose names starts with the 2-letter abbreviation for that state:
Oklahoma City, OK
Indianpolis, IN

But at least one other has a capital whose name ends with this 2-letter abbreviation. Which one? (Hint: Don't over-think it. The answer's staring you in the face.) :)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on April 10, 2021, 06:33:52 PM
Pfft. Clever. I was spacing out trying to think of the state capitals and glossed right over that one, for some reason just thinking of the state's largest city instead of its actual capital. It wasn't until I caved and looked up a list of state capitals that I spotted it.

Topeka, Kansas ends with KA, which isn't its postal code (which is KS, of course) but is Kansas's boat registration code.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on April 10, 2021, 06:42:40 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 10, 2021, 06:20:17 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 10, 2021, 09:28:16 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2021, 04:27:15 AM
Which state was Abraham Lincoln from?

Born in Kentucky, but Illinois is the answer most people would give.

Unless they're from West Virginia! ;-)


Moving on to a new oddity...
At least two states have capitals whose names starts with the 2-letter abbreviation for that state:
Oklahoma City, OK
Indianpolis, IN

But at least one other has a capital whose name ends with this 2-letter abbreviation. Which one? (Hint: Don't over-think it. The answer's staring you in the face.) :)
AlbaNY
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on April 10, 2021, 08:48:40 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 10, 2021, 06:20:17 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 10, 2021, 09:28:16 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2021, 04:27:15 AM
Which state was Abraham Lincoln from?

Born in Kentucky, but Illinois is the answer most people would give.

Unless they're from West Virginia! ;-)


Moving on to a new oddity...
At least two states have capitals whose names starts with the 2-letter abbreviation for that state:
Oklahoma City, OK
Indianpolis, IN

But at least one other has a capital whose name ends with this 2-letter abbreviation. Which one? (Hint: Don't over-think it. The answer's staring you in the face.) :)

Clever.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on April 10, 2021, 11:20:21 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 10, 2021, 09:28:16 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2021, 04:27:15 AM
Which state was Abraham Lincoln from?

Born in Kentucky, but Illinois is the answer most people would give.


Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 10, 2021, 01:39:15 AM
... Pennsylvaniers ...

Off-topic, but isn't it "Pennsylvanians"?

Call them Keystoners!!!

Three states try to lay claim to Lincoln. Indiana proclaims itself "Lincoln's Boyhood Home."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mrsman on April 19, 2021, 02:21:25 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 10, 2021, 12:34:41 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 09, 2021, 02:26:39 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 09, 2021, 02:13:05 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 09, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
I know this is opening a can of worms, but where I'm from we would say that Joe Biden is from Pennsylvania.  In West Virginia, "growing up" is the most number of years between ages 6 and 12.  He was 11 years old when they moved to Wilmington, Delaware.

The worm I'm most intrigued by is that there's a regional variation on what it means to be "from" somewhere. What are the specifics of this variation?

I think it's all down to what the individual feels connected to as where they're "from". People will probably harangue me for this, but I felt much more connected to Duluth than Minneapolis even though I have lived for far more of my life in the latter, so I sometimes tell people I'm from Duluth instead.

That's how I'd use it, too. But Dirt Roads specifically says "where I'm from we would say..." and explains that where one is "from" is different from where one "grew up." I didn't know about that regionalism before (but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist).

"Where are you from?"

If I'm asked that, I'd say MD or Silver Spring, MD.  I've lived here for the past 20 years.  That's usually good enough.

If I encounter a follow-up question, like "Where did you go to high school?" I'd explain that I grew up in Los Angeles, so even though I have lived in Silver Spring for a long time, I did not go to high school there.

Even though I was born in Los Angeles, my mother is an immigrant and I share a bit of her foreign accent.  So if MD and CA are not good enough, because they question my accent, then I have to explain where my mother comes from
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on April 25, 2021, 12:09:01 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 10, 2021, 12:42:04 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 09, 2021, 02:23:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 09, 2021, 02:11:03 PM

Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 09, 2021, 12:25:07 PM
I know this is opening a can of worms, but where I'm from we would say that Joe Biden is from Pennsylvania.  In West Virginia, "growing up" is the most number of years between ages 6 and 12.  He was 11 years old when they moved to Wilmington, Delaware.

Sure, but he spent 36 years as a US Senator representing Delaware, so he's associated far more with Delaware than Pennsylvania, even if he spent his childhood in Pennsylvania.

And Arturs KriÅ¡jānis KariņÅ¡ left Delaware after graduating high school.  He attended college in Maryland, Pennsylvania, and abroad.  He has lived in Latvia for 24 years, which is longer than he lived in Delaware.

I mean, the "oddity that defies conventional wisdom" on the map is that one wouldn't expect any world leaders at all to be tied to such a minor state, but if any world leader was going to be tied to a minor state, you would expect it to be the country that state is in, the United States. It defies conventional wisdom that any other country's leader would have ties at all to the United States, let alone the specific state that the current President of the United States is tied to.

Now, are we done sucking all the fun out of this geographic oddity? :D

Along these same lines, when Donald Trump was President, we had the oddity of the US President and British Prime Minister sharing a birth city. Boris Johnson was also born in New York City.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on April 25, 2021, 04:09:54 PM
"Where are you really from" is a rude question I get occasionally, being a foreign-looking person.

I refer to my European ancestry first to trip them up.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: andrepoiy on April 25, 2021, 05:38:29 PM
Here's something you probably didn't expect:

Ontario has no land border crossings with the United States; every crossing from Ontario to the US involves a bridge or ferry.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on April 25, 2021, 07:05:47 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 25, 2021, 04:09:54 PM
"Where are you really from" is a rude question I get occasionally, being a foreign-looking person.

I refer to my European ancestry first to trip them up.

If you're doing it intentionally to trip them up, how could you call the response "rude"?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 07:08:32 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2021, 07:05:47 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 25, 2021, 04:09:54 PM
"Where are you really from" is a rude question I get occasionally, being a foreign-looking person.

I refer to my European ancestry first to trip them up.

If you're doing it intentionally to trip them up, how could you call the response "rude"?

My reading of his post is that someone asks where Bruce is from, he says "Snohomish County", and because he's noticeably not Caucasian, they ask "where are you really from" because they're racist, so he says a country from Europe that he has heritage from, which confuses them, because he doesn't look like he's from there either.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 25, 2021, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 07:08:32 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2021, 07:05:47 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 25, 2021, 04:09:54 PM
"Where are you really from" is a rude question I get occasionally, being a foreign-looking person.

I refer to my European ancestry first to trip them up.

If you're doing it intentionally to trip them up, how could you call the response "rude"?

My reading of his post is that someone asks where Bruce is from, he says "Snohomish County", and because he's noticeably not Caucasian, they ask "where are you really from" because they're racist, so he says a country from Europe that he has heritage from, which confuses them, because he doesn't look like he's from there either.
I wouldn't call that racist necessarily, more ignorant.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 07:16:23 PM
"Where are you really from" is about the rudest/most racist way of wording it, though. "Where is your family originally from" might be a bit better, or even better, not asking at all because it's none of your business.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 25, 2021, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 07:16:23 PM
"Where are you really from" is about the rudest/most racist way of wording it, though. "Where is your family originally from" might be a bit better, or even better, not asking at all because it's none of your business.

I heard a story once about a math teacher at my school who was giving an African-American family a tour. Allegedly she asked where in Africa they were from and they replied "we're from Cincinnati". Even stranger that she did this because she had taught in Senegal for a couple years.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 08:44:32 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 07:08:32 PM
My reading of his post is that someone asks where Bruce is from, he says "Snohomish County", and because he's noticeably not Caucasian, they ask "where are you really from" because they're racist, so he says a country from Europe that he has heritage from, which confuses them, because he doesn't look like he's from there either.

This is all conjecture at this point, but I took it that the reference European ancestry came first. To me, "Where are you really from?" is the type of response you'd give if you genuinely don't believe the answer or think the person is joking, which is why I doubt it would follow directly from "Snohomish County" or whatever.


Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 07:16:23 PM
"Where are you really from" is about the rudest/most racist way of wording it, though. "Where is your family originally from" might be a bit better, or even better, not asking at all because it's none of your business.

Or, if you really need to know for some reason, "where are your ancestors from?"
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:40:00 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 25, 2021, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 07:16:23 PM
"Where are you really from" is about the rudest/most racist way of wording it, though. "Where is your family originally from" might be a bit better, or even better, not asking at all because it's none of your business.

I heard a story once about a math teacher at my school who was giving an African-American family a tour. Allegedly she asked where in Africa they were from and they replied "we're from Cincinnati". Even stranger that she did this because she had taught in Senegal for a couple years.
Most African-Americans don't know where in Africa they come from.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on April 26, 2021, 11:21:47 AM
We know nothing about Africa, although our roots are there in terms of our forbearers. But I mean as far as the average Negro today, he knows nothing about Africa. And I think he's got to face the fact that he is an American, his culture is basically American, and one becomes adjusted to this when he realizes what, what he is.


Martin Luther King, Jr.

--

As to the "where are you from" deal, around Charleston, there is a big community of Arab descended people.  They are Orthodox Christians, in fact the cathedral for the religion, Saint George Antiochian Orthodox Christian Cathedral, is in town.  I have a lot of friends and co-workers from that community.  Beautiful services, BTW.

People around Charleston get it, but outside of the region, there are three really demeaning and ignorant things that happen, all three are automatic ways to piss them off:

- People call them "Greek Orthodox". 
- People, and this can happen from the "left" or "right" will suggest they are not "Caucasian". 

And the big one, which can also happen from the "left" or "right",

- People will assume they are Islamic.  Had a good friend, lefty professor told her that she had her back, and to report any "anti-Muslim" things to her.  She just let it go, but I know it hurt her feelings.  I also knew her grandfather, who immigrated here to escape religious persecution BY Muslims.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 11:30:32 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on April 26, 2021, 11:21:47 AM
We know nothing about Africa, although our roots are there in terms of our forbearers. But I mean as far as the average Negro today, he knows nothing about Africa. And I think he's got to face the fact that he is an American, his culture is basically American, and one becomes adjusted to this when he realizes what, what he is.


Martin Luther King, Jr.

--

As to the "where are you from" deal, around Charleston, there is a big community of Arab descended people.  They are Orthodox Christians, in fact the cathedral for the religion, Saint George Antiochian Orthodox Christian Cathedral, is in town.  I have a lot of friends and co-workers from that community.  Beautiful services, BTW.

People around Charleston get it, but outside of the region, there are three really demeaning and ignorant things that happen, all three are automatic ways to piss them off:

- People call them "Greek Orthodox". 
- People, and this can happen from the "left" or "right" will suggest they are not "Caucasian". 

And the big one, which can also happen from the "left" or "right",

- People will assume they are Islamic.  Had a good friend, lefty professor told her that she had her back, and to report any "anti-Muslim" things to her.  She just let it go, but I know it hurt her feelings.  I also knew her grandfather, who immigrated here to escape religious persecution BY Muslims.
Never assume someone's religion.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on April 26, 2021, 12:43:11 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on April 25, 2021, 05:38:29 PM
Here's something you probably didn't expect:

Ontario has no land border crossings with the United States; every crossing from Ontario to the US involves a bridge or ferry.

...or tunnel. I guess the surprising part of this one is that Ontario has no land borders with the U.S (crossing or no).

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 25, 2021, 07:10:28 PM
I wouldn't call that racist necessarily, more ignorant.

Racism is often the result of ignorance.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: andrepoiy on April 26, 2021, 12:55:41 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 26, 2021, 12:43:11 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on April 25, 2021, 05:38:29 PM
Here's something you probably didn't expect:

Ontario has no land border crossings with the United States; every crossing from Ontario to the US involves a bridge or ferry.

...or tunnel. I guess the surprising part of this one is that Ontario has no land borders with the U.S (crossing or no).

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 25, 2021, 07:10:28 PM
I wouldn't call that racist necessarily, more ignorant.

Racism is often the result of ignorance.

My mistake, phrased that wrong. And also forgot about the Detroit tunnel.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on April 26, 2021, 01:15:36 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 26, 2021, 12:43:11 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on April 25, 2021, 05:38:29 PM
Here's something you probably didn't expect:

Ontario has no land border crossings with the United States; every crossing from Ontario to the US involves a bridge or ferry.

...or tunnel. I guess the surprising part of this one is that Ontario has no land borders with the U.S (crossing or no).

Also, what makes it even more unique is that the immediately adjacent portions of both Manitoba and Quebec do have a land border with the US.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CoreySamson on April 26, 2021, 01:43:58 PM
Not necessarily geographical, but I didn't know Calgary and Edmonton were so large in regards to population until a couple months ago. I always thought they were more like the size of Saskatoon or Halifax.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 26, 2021, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:40:00 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 25, 2021, 08:05:26 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 07:16:23 PM
"Where are you really from" is about the rudest/most racist way of wording it, though. "Where is your family originally from" might be a bit better, or even better, not asking at all because it's none of your business.

I heard a story once about a math teacher at my school who was giving an African-American family a tour. Allegedly she asked where in Africa they were from and they replied "we're from Cincinnati". Even stranger that she did this because she had taught in Senegal for a couple years.
Most African-Americans don't know where in Africa they come from.

Of course that is through no fault of their own, having been kidnapped from Africa and sent on ships to North America, then sold into slavery with little or no record keeping.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on April 26, 2021, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 26, 2021, 12:43:11 PMI guess the surprising part of this one is that Ontario has no land borders with the U.S (crossing or no).

Except that it has a very short dry border at the Height of Land Portage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_of_Land_Portage), where it crosses the Laurentian Divide. In fact when they first drew the border they were unaware it crossed that divide (and thus they didn't realize going West from the Lake of the Woods they wouldn't hit the Mississippi), eventually leading to the creation of the Angle Inlet. Even more surprising is that, from that point on, water flows towards the Lake of the Woods (and eventually Hudson Bay), as opposed to the long-standing belief that water flows from the Lake of the Woods to Lake Superior.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on April 26, 2021, 09:07:13 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on April 26, 2021, 02:31:55 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 26, 2021, 12:43:11 PMI guess the surprising part of this one is that Ontario has no land borders with the U.S (crossing or no).

Except that it has a very short dry border at the Height of Land Portage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_of_Land_Portage), where it crosses the Laurentian Divide. In fact when they first drew the border they were unaware it crossed that divide (and thus they didn't realize going West from the Lake of the Woods they wouldn't hit the Mississippi), eventually leading to the creation of the Angle Inlet. Even more surprising is that, from that point on, water flows towards the Lake of the Woods (and eventually Hudson Bay), as opposed to the long-standing belief that water flows from the Lake of the Woods to Lake Superior.

Ah, there it is. I figured there must be some tiny stretch along the way, but I didn't go into full zoom detail when checking. But the "conventional wisdom" would probably be that Ontario has a substantial land boundary with Minnesota, with only the Great Lakes portion of the border comprising mainly water boundaries.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on April 26, 2021, 09:55:38 PM
If that's the conventional wisdom, then by conventional wisdom I-81's crossing over the International Rift between Wellesley Island and Hill Island is also a "land" boundary.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on April 26, 2021, 10:36:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2021, 07:08:32 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 25, 2021, 07:05:47 PM
Quote from: Bruce on April 25, 2021, 04:09:54 PM
"Where are you really from" is a rude question I get occasionally, being a foreign-looking person.

I refer to my European ancestry first to trip them up.

If you're doing it intentionally to trip them up, how could you call the response "rude"?

My reading of his post is that someone asks where Bruce is from, he says "Snohomish County", and because he's noticeably not Caucasian, they ask "where are you really from" because they're racist, so he says a country from Europe that he has heritage from, which confuses them, because he doesn't look like he's from there either.

Exactly this.

Asian people are seen as perpetual foreigners even if they've lived for generations in the U.S., which is why this is classified as a microagression at the very least.

I've never been across the Pacific, and have only called Washington home my entire life, so I'm only "from" here. Heck, one side of my family came to the Northwest before Washington had earned statehood.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on April 27, 2021, 10:37:30 AM
Quote from: vdeane on April 26, 2021, 09:55:38 PM
If that's the conventional wisdom, then by conventional wisdom I-81's crossing over the International Rift between Wellesley Island and Hill Island is also a "land" boundary.

Maybe, I guess it would depend if you consider the waterways between the Great Lakes, or only the lakes themselves. The Niagara crossing would be similarly "land" boundaries. In fact, there is the most minuscule sliver of land crossing the boundary at the tip of Goat Island, placing the Horseshoe Falls entirely within Canada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 27, 2021, 12:37:46 PM
Not everything is about race, of course.

If you move across the street from me and have a Southern accent, then I'm going to ask where you're originally from.  If you move across the street from me and have a Mexican accent, then I'm going to ask where you're originally from.

I usually just ask people if they're originally from Wichita.  Then they can tell me as much or as little as they want.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on May 07, 2021, 08:18:24 AM
In today's chapter of "things getting straightened up": Italy. It is often though the Italian boot as going due North-South, while it actually goes Northwest-Southeast. Termoli, an Adriatic coastal resort town in the nonexistent (or at least said so xD) region of Molise across the boot from Naples, is actually sightly further North than Rome.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on May 07, 2021, 09:31:58 AM
It's well known that I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington is almost due south.  But I-40 from the split near Hillsborough runs mostly southeast as well, except for the section around the southern part of the Raleigh Beltline.  That got me wondering about any local geographic oddities.  Sure enough, the geographic center of North Carolina (depending on which one you consider) is pretty much due north of Charleston, South Carolina.

Charleston SC - 79W 56o
(traditional) near Goldston in Chatham County NC - 79W 27o
(geosat calculation) near Star, Montgomery County NC - 79W 49o
(local folklore) atop Purgatory Mountain, Randolph County NC - 79W 76o
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 07, 2021, 11:48:50 AM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on May 07, 2021, 09:31:58 AM
It's well known that I-40 from Raleigh to Wilmington is almost due south.  But I-40 from the split near Hillsborough runs mostly southeast as well, except for the section around the southern part of the Raleigh Beltline.  That got me wondering about any local geographic oddities.  Sure enough, the geographic center of North Carolina (depending on which one you consider) is pretty much due north of Charleston, South Carolina.

Charleston SC - 79W 56o
(traditional) near Goldston in Chatham County NC - 79W 27o
(geosat calculation) near Star, Montgomery County NC - 79W 49o
(local folklore) atop Purgatory Mountain, Randolph County NC - 79W 76o
The east coast really curves in the Carolinas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dkblake on May 09, 2021, 10:19:15 PM
Less physical geography than human geography, but: if you made a list of the largest city in the world that begins with each letter of the alphabet as transliterated in English, two of the cities on that list would be from western Canada: Edmonton and Vancouver. This is more than would be from the US (NYC), South America (Rio), or Europe (Paris).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 10:29:37 PM
Quote from: dkblake on May 09, 2021, 10:19:15 PM
Less physical geography than human geography, but: if you made a list of the largest city in the world that begins with each letter of the alphabet as transliterated in English, two of the cities on that list would be from western Canada: Edmonton and Vancouver. This is more than would be from the US (NYC), South America (Rio), or Europe (Paris).
E surprises me.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SkyPesos on May 09, 2021, 10:52:45 PM
I'll type a list out here for reference, and to see how many are from China or India. Numbers from these (https://www.un.org/en/events/citiesday/assets/pdf/the_worlds_cities_in_2018_data_booklet.pdf) two (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities) sites.

A - Ahmedabad (7.7m, Asia, India)
B - Beijing (19.6m, Asia, China)
C - Cairo (20m, Africa, Egypt)
D - Delhi (28.5m, Asia, India)
E - Edmonton (1.4m, N America, Canada)
F - Foshan (7.2m, Asia, China)
G - Guangzhou (12.6m, Asia, China)
H - Hyderabad (9.5m, Asia, India)
I - Istanbul (14.8m, Europe/Asia, Turkey)
J - Jakarta (10.5m, Asia, Indonesia)
K - Karachi (15.4m, Asia, Pakistan)
L - Lagos (13.5m, Africa, Nigeria)
M - Mexico City (21.6m, N America, Mexico)
N - NYC (18.8m, N America, US)
O - Osaka (19.2m, Asia, Japan)
P - Paris (10.9m, Europe, France)
Q - Qingdao (5.4m, Asia, China)
R - Rio (13.3m, S America, Brazil)
S - Shanghai (25.6m, Asia, China)
T - Tokyo (37.4m, Asia, Japan)
U - Urumqi (4m, Asia, China)
V - Vancouver (2.5m, N America, Canada)
W - Wuhan (8.2m, Asia, China)
X - Xi'an (7.4m, Asia, China)
Y - Yangon (5.2m, Asia, Myanmar)
Z - Zhengzhou (4.9m, Asia, China)

So there are 9 in China and 3 in India. Good to know
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: andrepoiy on May 09, 2021, 11:01:32 PM
Yangon can also be spelled as Rangoon...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on May 10, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
I don't think it's legit to include cities that don't use the Latin alphabet in their native language.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on May 10, 2021, 12:28:14 AM
I figured Vienna would nose out Vancouver. But in the native Swiss German language, Vienna is called Wien. The home of wieners and Wiener schnitzel.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SkyPesos on May 10, 2021, 01:22:21 AM
Quote from: andrepoiy on May 09, 2021, 11:01:32 PM
Yangon can also be spelled as Rangoon...
A lot of those cities could be spelled in other ways. Mumbai could be on that list if it's still spelled Bombay, as its population is more than Beijing's, but less than Mexico City's. Speaking of Beijing, same with it taking over Paris if it's still spelled Peking in English.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dkblake on May 10, 2021, 07:43:01 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 10, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
I don't think it's legit to include cities that don't use the Latin alphabet in their native language.

Why? The caveat in my original post is the city names as transliterated in English, and most major cities in places that primarily speak languages that don't use the Latin alphabet have official or commonly used romanizations.

Quote from: SkyPesos on May 10, 2021, 01:22:21 AM
Quote from: andrepoiy on May 09, 2021, 11:01:32 PM
Yangon can also be spelled as Rangoon...
A lot of those cities could be spelled in other ways. Mumbai could be on that list if it's still spelled Bombay, as its population is more than Beijing's, but less than Mexico City's. Speaking of Beijing, same with it taking over Paris if it's still spelled Peking in English.

Both Beijing and Mumbai are the official romanizations of those two cities, replacing Peking and Bombay sometime in the late 20th century.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on May 10, 2021, 01:47:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 10, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
I don't think it's legit to include cities that don't use the Latin alphabet in their native language.

As long as we're following their modern official transliteration, it should be fine.

Quite a few countries have gone back to correct colonialist Anglicizations like China (Peking -> Beijing) and Korea (Pusan -> Busan), so the modern names there should reflect the government's wishes.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on July 23, 2021, 02:43:54 PM

Here is a cool video of Canada's population is further south than some states in the USA.


Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: westerninterloper on July 23, 2021, 03:23:12 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 10, 2021, 09:28:16 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 10, 2021, 04:27:15 AM
Which state was Abraham Lincoln from?

Born in Kentucky, but Illinois is the answer most people would give.

Hoosiers claim Lincoln because he grew up there - age 5-21; to me being "from" a place is where one spends their formative years. I've lived outside Indiana longer than inside, but I grew up and went to school there, so I'll always be "from Indiana."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on July 23, 2021, 03:31:30 PM
Quote from: westerninterloper on July 23, 2021, 03:23:12 PM


Quotes a post from three months ago, then either doesn't reply to it or else types his reply in the middle and expects us to know which sentence is his.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on August 12, 2021, 05:49:23 PM
A few for the Pacific Northwest:

Vancouver is further west than Olympia

Portland is further west than Seattle

Everett is further east than Abbotsford

Olympia is slightly north of Ellensburg

Seattle is at about the same latitude as Leavenworth and slightly south of Spokane
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on August 12, 2021, 05:53:09 PM
Quote from: Bruce on August 12, 2021, 05:49:23 PM
Seattle is at about the same latitude as Leavenworth and slightly south of Spokane

Seattle: 47°36′35″N
Leavenworth: 39°18′40″N
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on August 12, 2021, 05:55:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 12, 2021, 05:53:09 PM
Quote from: Bruce on August 12, 2021, 05:49:23 PM
Seattle is at about the same latitude as Leavenworth and slightly south of Spokane

Seattle, WA: 47°36′35″N
Leavenworth, KS: 39°18′40″N

(Bolding mine)

Chris
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on August 12, 2021, 06:15:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 12, 2021, 05:53:09 PM
Quote from: Bruce on August 12, 2021, 05:49:23 PM
Seattle is at about the same latitude as Leavenworth and slightly south of Spokane

Seattle: 47°36′35″N
Leavenworth: 39°18′40″N

Ours is a little more fun.

(https://2ganwc3heo6y2kcytm13s0hf-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/LightsMorning.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on August 12, 2021, 06:16:54 PM
I like the fact Portland is slightly West of San Francisco.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on August 12, 2021, 06:52:19 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on August 12, 2021, 06:16:54 PM
I like the fact Portland is slightly West of San Francisco.

And in the same vein: Spokane is west of San Diego.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KCRoadFan on October 12, 2021, 10:15:11 PM
Pardon the bump, but here's one I thought of: Washington, D.C. is west of Syracuse, NY.

Also, Miami is west of Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: andrepoiy on October 12, 2021, 10:33:47 PM
here's one:

The Gaspe Penninsula (Gaspesie) in Quebec extends more easterly than most of New Brunswick, yet still uses Eastern Time (while NB uses Atlantic time)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SkyPesos on October 13, 2021, 12:50:36 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 12, 2021, 10:15:11 PM
Pardon the bump, but here's one I thought of: Washington, D.C. is west of Syracuse, NY.

Also, Miami is west of Pittsburgh.
Interesting way of telling all the grid nazis in fictional that I-95 goes west of I-79 at some point.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on October 13, 2021, 06:59:02 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 12, 2021, 10:15:11 PM
Pardon the bump, but here's one I thought of: Washington, D.C. is west of Syracuse, NY.

Also, Miami is west of Pittsburgh.
Meh.  Pinpointing cities on a single lat/long seems strange.  I'd think if Miami and Pittsburgh were closer to each other, people would think they're directly north and south of each other.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 13, 2021, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 13, 2021, 06:59:02 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 12, 2021, 10:15:11 PM
Pardon the bump, but here's one I thought of: Washington, D.C. is west of Syracuse, NY.

Also, Miami is west of Pittsburgh.
Meh.  Pinpointing cities on a single lat/long seems strange.  I'd think if Miami and Pittsburgh were closer to each other, people would think they're directly north and south of each other.

This thread is filled with similar examples, but this is where you draw the line?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on October 13, 2021, 08:16:17 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 13, 2021, 07:53:11 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 13, 2021, 06:59:02 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 12, 2021, 10:15:11 PM
Pardon the bump, but here's one I thought of: Washington, D.C. is west of Syracuse, NY.

Also, Miami is west of Pittsburgh.
Meh.  Pinpointing cities on a single lat/long seems strange.  I'd think if Miami and Pittsburgh were closer to each other, people would think they're directly north and south of each other.

This thread is filled with similar examples, but this is where you draw the line?
The proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on October 13, 2021, 12:10:27 PM
The border between California and Mexico is not straight east-west; it's about 32.53 deg north on the west side, and about 32.71 on the east.

As noted earlier in the thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16931.msg2183307#msg2183307), the CA/OR border is north of Canada's Pelee Island in Lake Erie.

So: California extends both south of Mexico and north of Canada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on October 13, 2021, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 06, 2017, 10:25:43 AM
3. When people think of large cities, or even medium-large cities, cities in North Carolina are usually forgotten. (This may not be true on this forum.)

Quote from: SP Cook on January 06, 2017, 11:51:02 AM
About North Carolina, right.  And both North Carolina and Virginia are examples of the use of a different word for a metro and the city.  Most places are generally just "greater" "metro" or "area" with a city name to mean "central city and its suburbs".   The cities of eastern Virginia are, however, "the Tidewater" or "Hampton Roads" ,  and the main areas of North Carolina are "the Piedmont Triad" (Winston-Salem, High Point, Greensboro) , "the Triangle" (Raleigh. Durham, Chapel Hill), and "Metrolina" (Charlotte).    Pretty rare elsewhere.

Oh, the memories!  Back in the MTR days, I got hammered for speculating that the Charlotte area had gotten bigger than Columbus, Ohio.  I was wrong, but not by much.  By the time the 2000 U.S. Census rolled around, the Columbus metro area was ranked #31 (1,540,157), whereas Charlotte was ranked #32 (1,499,293).  That being said, the population difference within the city limits was much more pronounced: Columbus was #15 back then (715,971), whereas Charlotte had only moved up to #22 (569,858).

These cities have been running side-by-side for a while, but now as of the 2020 Census, Columbus was ranked #14 (905,748) and Charlotte #16 (874,579), with #15 Indianapolis (887,642) bumping Charlotte down one spot.  If only Charlotte had a big-name university...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM
The Las Vegas Strip is not in the city of Las Vegas.

The Rio Grande separates Texas and New Mexico briefly, creating a very small natural border and keeping New Mexico from joining Colorado, Wyoming and Utah in the "no natural borders" club.

North Texas is further south than all of the panhandle and a good chunk of West Texas.   Yes that is more of a naming issue than a geographical one, filed under the East River is not a River and Lake Pontchartrain is not a Lake.

The northern tip of Maine is further south than the 49th parallel; the border between Canada and the US from Minnesota to Washington.

The halfway point of I-10 across the US and the halfway point of I-10 across Texas are 10 miles apart from each other.

when traveling from west to east, as far as TV and radio call signals go, you have already crossed the Mississippi River into WXXX territory when you reach New Orleans by 76 miles.  To that fact, traveling even further east of New Orleans, because of the Florida Parishes, you leave Louisiana into Mississippi by crossing the Pearl River.

Because of the Four Corners Monument, New Mexico and Utah share a border.  Same situation with Arizona and Colorado.

I-75 spends more time in Florida than any interstate spends in any state east of the Mississippi.

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.

Each Borough of New York is within a like defined county, but not all the counties have the same name as the borough.   

Also, if you head west out of the Cumberland Gap, you will get further away from Johnson City, TN.  :-D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on October 13, 2021, 08:26:22 PM
The city of Sumas, WA is partially above the 49th parallel because of a surveying error: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-town-that-should-be-canadian-how-a-surveying-error-put-sumas-washington-on-b-c-soil/wcm/95903a11-0c1b-45cb-84db-5893f33d7ef0
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 13, 2021, 09:02:12 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM
Because of the Four Corners Monument, New Mexico and Utah share a border.  Same situation with Arizona and Colorado.

Is that what we're going to do today? We're going to fight?  :-D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on October 13, 2021, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM
when traveling from west to east, as far as TV and radio call signals go, you have already crossed the Mississippi River into WXXX territory when you reach New Orleans by 76 miles.  To that fact, traveling even further east of New Orleans, because of the Florida Parishes, you leave Louisiana into Mississippi by crossing the Pearl River.
Actually, WXXX (https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WXXX&service=FM) is a lot further from New Orleans than that, but in the wrong direction...  :bigass:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on October 13, 2021, 11:13:52 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 13, 2021, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM
when traveling from west to east, as far as TV and radio call signals go, you have already crossed the Mississippi River into WXXX territory when you reach New Orleans by 76 miles.  To that fact, traveling even further east of New Orleans, because of the Florida Parishes, you leave Louisiana into Mississippi by crossing the Pearl River.
Actually, WXXX (https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WXXX&service=FM) is a lot further from New Orleans than that, but in the wrong direction...  :bigass:

I've been as far west as KYW and as far east as WTAW
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jeffandnicole on October 13, 2021, 11:51:45 PM
Quote from: kurumi on October 13, 2021, 11:13:52 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 13, 2021, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM
when traveling from west to east, as far as TV and radio call signals go, you have already crossed the Mississippi River into WXXX territory when you reach New Orleans by 76 miles.  To that fact, traveling even further east of New Orleans, because of the Florida Parishes, you leave Louisiana into Mississippi by crossing the Pearl River.
Actually, WXXX (https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WXXX&service=FM) is a lot further from New Orleans than that, but in the wrong direction...  :bigass:

I've been as far west as KYW and as far east as WTAW

KYW is in Philly. You say you're in CA, so you've been further west than that.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 14, 2021, 12:38:53 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 13, 2021, 11:51:45 PM
Quote from: kurumi on October 13, 2021, 11:13:52 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 13, 2021, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM
when traveling from west to east, as far as TV and radio call signals go, you have already crossed the Mississippi River into WXXX territory when you reach New Orleans by 76 miles.  To that fact, traveling even further east of New Orleans, because of the Florida Parishes, you leave Louisiana into Mississippi by crossing the Pearl River.
Actually, WXXX (https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WXXX&service=FM) is a lot further from New Orleans than that, but in the wrong direction...  :bigass:

I've been as far west as KYW and as far east as WTAW

KYW is in Philly. You say you're in CA, so you've been further west than that.

I think the joke is that KYW is farther east than you'd expect and that WTAW is farther west.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on October 14, 2021, 10:17:42 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 14, 2021, 12:38:53 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 13, 2021, 11:51:45 PM
Quote from: kurumi on October 13, 2021, 11:13:52 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 13, 2021, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM
when traveling from west to east, as far as TV and radio call signals go, you have already crossed the Mississippi River into WXXX territory when you reach New Orleans by 76 miles.  To that fact, traveling even further east of New Orleans, because of the Florida Parishes, you leave Louisiana into Mississippi by crossing the Pearl River.
Actually, WXXX (https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WXXX&service=FM) is a lot further from New Orleans than that, but in the wrong direction...  :bigass:

I've been as far west as KYW and as far east as WTAW

KYW is in Philly. You say you're in CA, so you've been further west than that.

I think the joke is that KYW is farther east than you'd expect and that WTAW is farther west.

WOAI
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on October 14, 2021, 11:19:46 AM
For those of you who are on social media, I'd recommend following the Amazing Maps and Terrible Maps accounts on Facebook and Twitter. They're probably run by the same person, as one will often retweet/share the other's content.

One I saw the other day was interesting. The entire continent of South America lies east of Michigan.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.

And Richmond, Virginia isn't in Richmond County.

But Baltimore isn't in Baltimore County because it's an independent city that is surrounded by Baltimore County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.

And Richmond, Virginia isn't in Richmond County.

But Baltimore isn't in Baltimore County because it's an independent city that is surrounded by Baltimore County.

Yeah, that's the point.  In Texas there numerous cities that are not in their namesake counties, but it's a naming issue which is a different case.  The Baltimore thing is one of the few instances that I can think of where the namesake county is just outside the city because the city was basically carved out of the county.  Different than a consolidated city/county like St. Louis and Denver. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.

And Richmond, Virginia isn't in Richmond County.

But Baltimore isn't in Baltimore County because it's an independent city that is surrounded by Baltimore County.

Yeah, that's the point.  In Texas there numerous cities that are not in their namesake counties, but it's a naming issue which is a different case.  The Baltimore thing is one of the few instances that I can think of where the namesake county is just outside the city because the city was basically carved out of the county.  Different than a consolidated city/county like St. Louis and Denver.

Fairfax and Roanoke are other examples of this in Virginia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 03:46:23 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.

And Richmond, Virginia isn't in Richmond County.

But Baltimore isn't in Baltimore County because it's an independent city that is surrounded by Baltimore County.

Yeah, that's the point.  In Texas there numerous cities that are not in their namesake counties, but it's a naming issue which is a different case.  The Baltimore thing is one of the few instances that I can think of where the namesake county is just outside the city because the city was basically carved out of the county.  Different than a consolidated city/county like St. Louis and Denver.

Fairfax and Roanoke are other examples of this in Virginia.

Yes I knew about them, but wasn't sure if it was limited to just them so I said one of the few. 

Also, there is no such town as Arlington, VA.  It is an area in Arlington County, VA.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 04:04:08 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 03:46:23 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.

And Richmond, Virginia isn't in Richmond County.

But Baltimore isn't in Baltimore County because it's an independent city that is surrounded by Baltimore County.

Yeah, that's the point.  In Texas there numerous cities that are not in their namesake counties, but it's a naming issue which is a different case.  The Baltimore thing is one of the few instances that I can think of where the namesake county is just outside the city because the city was basically carved out of the county.  Different than a consolidated city/county like St. Louis and Denver.

Fairfax and Roanoke are other examples of this in Virginia.

Yes I knew about them, but wasn't sure if it was limited to just them so I said one of the few. 

Also, there is no such town as Arlington, VA.  It is an area in Arlington County, VA.

Arlington is perfect for this thread. When you first move to the DC area, you think that Arlington, VA MUST be a city. It's not, everyone in Arlington County has an "Arlington, VA" mailing address.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TXtoNJ on October 15, 2021, 04:26:45 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 04:04:08 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 03:46:23 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.

And Richmond, Virginia isn't in Richmond County.

But Baltimore isn't in Baltimore County because it's an independent city that is surrounded by Baltimore County.

Yeah, that's the point.  In Texas there numerous cities that are not in their namesake counties, but it's a naming issue which is a different case.  The Baltimore thing is one of the few instances that I can think of where the namesake county is just outside the city because the city was basically carved out of the county.  Different than a consolidated city/county like St. Louis and Denver.

Fairfax and Roanoke are other examples of this in Virginia.

Yes I knew about them, but wasn't sure if it was limited to just them so I said one of the few. 

Also, there is no such town as Arlington, VA.  It is an area in Arlington County, VA.

Arlington is perfect for this thread. When you first move to the DC area, you think that Arlington, VA MUST be a city. It's not, everyone in Arlington County has an "Arlington, VA" mailing address.

Makes sense, since Arlington was once just a plantation within Alexandria County, DC.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on October 16, 2021, 12:30:26 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.

And Richmond, Virginia isn't in Richmond County.

But Baltimore isn't in Baltimore County because it's an independent city that is surrounded by Baltimore County.

Yeah, that's the point.  In Texas there numerous cities that are not in their namesake counties, but it's a naming issue which is a different case.  The Baltimore thing is one of the few instances that I can think of where the namesake county is just outside the city because the city was basically carved out of the county.  Different than a consolidated city/county like St. Louis and Denver.

St Louis is exactly the same thing as Baltimore. In 1877 the city of St Louis seceded from St Louis County to become an independent city.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jlam on October 17, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
Quote from: US 89 on October 16, 2021, 12:30:26 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.

And Richmond, Virginia isn't in Richmond County.

But Baltimore isn't in Baltimore County because it's an independent city that is surrounded by Baltimore County.

Yeah, that's the point.  In Texas there numerous cities that are not in their namesake counties, but it's a naming issue which is a different case.  The Baltimore thing is one of the few instances that I can think of where the namesake county is just outside the city because the city was basically carved out of the county.  Different than a consolidated city/county like St. Louis and Denver.

St Louis is exactly the same thing as Baltimore. In 1877 the city of St Louis seceded from St Louis County to become an independent city.
Denver has two independent cities (Denver and Broomfield, the latter becoming independent in 2001), but none seceded from a county of the same name.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Mapmikey on October 17, 2021, 10:47:33 AM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 02:03:44 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.

And Richmond, Virginia isn't in Richmond County.

But Baltimore isn't in Baltimore County because it's an independent city that is surrounded by Baltimore County.

Yeah, that's the point.  In Texas there numerous cities that are not in their namesake counties, but it's a naming issue which is a different case.  The Baltimore thing is one of the few instances that I can think of where the namesake county is just outside the city because the city was basically carved out of the county.  Different than a consolidated city/county like St. Louis and Denver.

Fairfax and Roanoke are other examples of this in Virginia.

Also Norfolk was created this way, as was the former City of Bedford.

The weird one is the short-lived City of Nanesmond.   When Nanesmond County consolidated to an independent city, it took the county name as the city name.  But not long after the City of Nanesmond was renamed the City of Suffolk.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: plain on October 17, 2021, 01:07:01 PM
Quote from: jlam on October 17, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
Denver has two independent cities (Denver and Broomfield, the latter becoming independent in 2001), but none seceded from a county of the same name.

Which makes them consolidated city-counties, not independent cities.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on October 17, 2021, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: plain on October 17, 2021, 01:07:01 PM
Quote from: jlam on October 17, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
Denver has two independent cities (Denver and Broomfield, the latter becoming independent in 2001), but none seceded from a county of the same name.

Which makes them consolidated city-counties, not independent cities.

Denver and Broomfield are weird though because while they're technically consolidated city-counties, they exist because the city seceded from pre-existing counties to form their own counties. San Francisco and maybe a couple more also fit that category. That's different from a lot of other consolidated city-counties, which mostly seem to exist because a pre-existing county and a pre-existing city within that county merged their governments together. But in all of those cases a county still legally exists, which is what distinguishes them from independent cities that legally are not part of any county.

Only three independent cities exist in the US outside of Virginia: they are Baltimore, St Louis, and Carson City. It looks like Carson City used to be a consolidated city-county until Ormsby County, which the city had been consolidated with, was itself dissolved.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on October 17, 2021, 05:16:03 PM
Quote from: US 89 on October 17, 2021, 04:59:22 PM
Quote from: plain on October 17, 2021, 01:07:01 PM
Quote from: jlam on October 17, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
Denver has two independent cities (Denver and Broomfield, the latter becoming independent in 2001), but none seceded from a county of the same name.

Which makes them consolidated city-counties, not independent cities.

Denver and Broomfield are weird though because while they're technically consolidated city-counties, they exist because the city seceded from pre-existing counties to form their own counties. San Francisco and maybe a couple more also fit that category. That's different from a lot of other consolidated city-counties, which mostly seem to exist because a pre-existing county and a pre-existing city within that county merged their governments together. But in all of those cases a county still legally exists, which is what distinguishes them from independent cities that legally are not part of any county.

Only three independent cities exist in the US outside of Virginia: they are Baltimore, St Louis, and Carson City. It looks like Carson City used to be a consolidated city-county until Ormsby County, which the city had been consolidated with, was itself dissolved.

Yes, it's more accurate to say they're neither independent cities, nor consolidated city-counties. Examples of the latter would be places like Indianapolis/Marion County, Nashville/Davidson County and Athens/Clarke County. Places like Denver, San Francisco and Philadelphia might be better described as "coterminous city-counties".

The dividing line can be blurry, however. In which category would NYC fall, for example?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 17, 2021, 05:38:40 PM
Alaska has over 5x the amount of coastline as Florida does.

Chris
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jlam on October 18, 2021, 10:48:54 AM
Keeping with the topic of consolidated city-counties, it always strikes me as odd that Butte, MT is consolidated with Silver Bow County. There's no obvious reason for them to be consolidated, as Butte's urbanized area doesn't stretch throughout.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on October 18, 2021, 01:19:29 PM
Quote from: jlam on October 18, 2021, 10:48:54 AM
Keeping with the topic of consolidated city-counties, it always strikes me as odd that Butte, MT is consolidated with Silver Bow County. There's no obvious reason for them to be consolidated, as Butte's urbanized area doesn't stretch throughout.

In most of these types of city-county consolidations (or in the case of Virginia, collapse of an independent city status), the city experiences a significant decline in population, economy and/or tax base such that the city cannot afford to provide sufficient police and emergency services.  In many states, the counties are obligated by law to provide to such services. 

Looks like in the case of Butte, the city economically suffered from the closure of the underground copper mines during the 1950s and 1960s.  The concept of consolidating Butte into Silver Bow County had been attempted several times previously, once resulting in a famous court case where the Montana Supreme Court approved such an arrangement in 1924.  It failed then and also in 1931.  More recently, it failed in 1961 but finally achieved consolidation in 1977.  I wonder if Montana doesn't require counties to provide emergency services when a city can no longer afford them.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on October 18, 2021, 09:45:53 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 18, 2021, 01:19:29 PM
In most of these types of city-county consolidations (or in the case of Virginia, collapse of an independent city status), the city experiences a significant decline in population, economy and/or tax base such that the city cannot afford to provide sufficient police and emergency services.  In many states, the counties are obligated by law to provide to such services. 

That's strange; I always assumed it was the opposite (i.e. city does well enough that there's no need for the county any longer). There's discussions about folding Oklahoma County into Oklahoma City every so often because so much of Oklahoma County is in the limits of either OKC or one of its suburbs that maintaining the county government is perceived as being a waste of money.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SkyPesos on October 18, 2021, 09:52:49 PM
Reminds me of the numerous times St Louis City and County attempted to consolidate, and failed...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on October 18, 2021, 10:05:58 PM
A while ago there was also a proposal to consolidate the City of Syracuse and Onondaga County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on October 18, 2021, 10:49:03 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 18, 2021, 10:05:58 PM
A while ago there was also a proposal to consolidate the City of Syracuse and Onondaga County.
Transportation management-wise, OCDOT and the City are quite different.  Probably wouldn't have ended well.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 19, 2021, 07:21:14 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 18, 2021, 10:05:58 PM
A while ago there was also a proposal to consolidate the City of Syracuse and Onondaga County.

Wouldn't every single town in the county have had to agree?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ghYHZ on October 19, 2021, 08:04:56 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM
The northern tip of Maine is further south than the 49th parallel; the border between Canada and the US from Minnesota to Washington.

More than half the Island of Newfoundland is below the 49th.

Gander International Airport is at 48.9. I remember reading that when all those 38 widebody aircraft were diverted there on 9-11.....one of the passenger interviewed thought it was so 'cool' to be able to get ice cream so close to the north pole. He had been closer to the north pole when he left London (at 51.5) 5 hrs earlier.....and really not that close at all!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on October 19, 2021, 10:46:38 AM
Quote from: ghYHZ on October 19, 2021, 08:04:56 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM
The northern tip of Maine is further south than the 49th parallel; the border between Canada and the US from Minnesota to Washington.

More than half the Island of Newfoundland is below the 49th.

Gander International Airport is at 48.9. I remember reading that when all those 38 widebody aircraft were diverted there on 9-11.....one of the passenger interviewed thought it was so 'cool' to be able to get ice cream so close to the north pole. He had been closer to the north pole when he left London (at 51.5) 5 hrs earlier.....and really not that close at all!

Yeah. People don't get that basically the entire European continent lies north of San Francisco and Washington, DC (and, for that matter, Seoul). Southampton is a bit north of Vancouver. That means that the entire island of Great Britain is north of the 48 contiguous United States.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on October 19, 2021, 12:06:41 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 19, 2021, 07:21:14 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 18, 2021, 10:05:58 PM
A while ago there was also a proposal to consolidate the City of Syracuse and Onondaga County.

Wouldn't every single town in the county have had to agree?

They didn't in Jefferson County, Ky. The big city of Louisville and some of the smaller incorporated cities merged with Jefferson County, but there are still a number of smaller, independent cities that have their own governments.

I don't know how the Louisville merger was set up, but Lexington and Fayette County were the first two governments to merge in Kentucky. The city became the dominant government. The mayor and the city council have all the powers. There's still a county government structure -- a county judge-executive and a fiscal court -- but it has limited powers. And the Fayette County sheriff's office has limited law enforcement authority when compared to the Lexington police department.

Louisville has the mayor and council, but I don't know if there's still a fiscal court and a CJE for Jefferson County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 19, 2021, 12:10:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 19, 2021, 12:06:41 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 19, 2021, 07:21:14 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 18, 2021, 10:05:58 PM
A while ago there was also a proposal to consolidate the City of Syracuse and Onondaga County.

Wouldn't every single town in the county have had to agree?

They didn't in Jefferson County, Ky. The big city of Louisville and some of the smaller incorporated cities merged with Jefferson County, but there are still a number of smaller, independent cities that have their own governments.

I don't know how the Louisville merger was set up, but Lexington and Fayette County were the first two governments to merge in Kentucky. The city became the dominant government. The mayor and the city council have all the powers. There's still a county government structure -- a county judge-executive and a fiscal court -- but it has limited powers. And the Fayette County sheriff's office has limited law enforcement authority when compared to the Lexington police department.

Louisville has the mayor and council, but I don't know if there's still a fiscal court and a CJE for Jefferson County.

New York has no unincorporated space. If the towns were left intact, the so-called merger would do absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on October 19, 2021, 01:42:11 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 18, 2021, 01:19:29 PM
In most of these types of city-county consolidations (or in the case of Virginia, collapse of an independent city status), the city experiences a significant decline in population, economy and/or tax base such that the city cannot afford to provide sufficient police and emergency services.  In many states, the counties are obligated by law to provide to such services. 

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 18, 2021, 09:45:53 PM
That's strange; I always assumed it was the opposite (i.e. city does well enough that there's no need for the county any longer). There's discussions about folding Oklahoma County into Oklahoma City every so often because so much of Oklahoma County is in the limits of either OKC or one of its suburbs that maintaining the county government is perceived as being a waste of money.

You're notion is also correct.  In cases like Oklahoma City and Jacksonville, the desire to curb what I would call "hodge-podge annexation" of continuous dense development along the outskirts of a growing city often leads to one massive consolidation.  What happened in Butte, Montana resulted in a city-county merger.  When the same thing happened in South Boston, Virginia, the independent city simply reverted back to a town status which allowed the Halifax County to take over emergency services (the town still retained a police force).  There are several others in Virginia that have also downgraded.

Which reminds me.  I grew up near two formerly incorporated towns in West Virginia that are technically no longer on the map.  The town of Mount Vernon was located adjacent what is now the Teays Valley exit of I-64 (WV-34/Exit 39).   The town of Scary was located just south of the St. Albans exit (WV-817/Exit 44).  The unincorporated area of Scott Depot now covers everything in between.  Some maps may still show the placename Scary, but it doesn't officially exist.  Mt. Vernon never had a post office, and the one for Scary closed in 1931.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 19, 2021, 01:46:08 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 19, 2021, 01:42:11 PM
Which reminds me.  I grew up near two formerly incorporated towns in West Virginia that are technically no longer on the map.  The town of Mount Vernon was located adjacent what is now the Teays Valley exit of I-64 (WV-34/Exit 39).   The town of Scary was located just south of the St. Albans exit (WV-817/Exit 44).  The unincorporated area of Scott Depot now covers everything in between.  Some maps may still show the placename Scary, but it doesn't officially exist.  Mt. Vernon never had a post office, and the one for Scary closed in 1931.

I grew up in an area called Etter, Minnesota.  Its post office closed in 1927.  My official address was Welch but I went to school in Hastings.

Chris
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 19, 2021, 03:05:11 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 19, 2021, 10:46:38 AM
Yeah. People don't get that basically the entire European continent lies north of San Francisco and Washington, DC (and, for that matter, Seoul).

I've been to Malaga, which is both in Europe and South of those three cities.

One I like: The 12 foot 4 (formerly 11 foot 8) bridge lies at about the same latitude as the Southernmost tip of the Iberian Peninsula. This also means the entirety of continental Europe lies North of the world-famous bridge (some Greek islands, such as Crete, lie further South).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on October 19, 2021, 06:58:14 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 19, 2021, 10:46:38 AM
Yeah. People don't get that basically the entire European continent lies north of San Francisco and Washington, DC (and, for that matter, Seoul). Southampton is a bit north of Vancouver. That means that the entire island of Great Britain is north of the 48 contiguous United States.

Yes, and that's something I wasn't prepared for when I visited. I'd never considered post-10 p.m. sunsets to be a part of the British culture!

Quote from: 1 on October 19, 2021, 12:10:52 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 19, 2021, 12:06:41 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 19, 2021, 07:21:14 AM
Wouldn't every single town in the county have had to agree?

They didn't in Jefferson County, Ky. The big city of Louisville and some of the smaller incorporated cities merged with Jefferson County, but there are still a number of smaller, independent cities that have their own governments.

New York has no unincorporated space. If the towns were left intact, the so-called merger would do absolutely nothing.

There has also been talk of similar consolidations in both Erie and Monroe counties. I really don't have a firm recollection of the details, but I believe the arrangement would have been similar to a watered-down version of Louisville/Jefferson. The city and town governments would have merged administratively and operationally, but not necessarily geographically–the idea, I think, was more about having the same personnel do the same work from the same offices that now involve duplicates of all those things.

I get the feeling this has since fallen out of vogue, and we're now much more hepped up on village dissolutions.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on October 20, 2021, 02:34:16 AM
Quote from: bing101 on July 23, 2021, 02:43:54 PM

Here is a cool video of Canada's population is further south than some states in the USA.




Does he actually talk that fast, or is it speeded up somehow?  It gives me a headache.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on October 20, 2021, 09:26:22 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 18, 2021, 10:05:58 PM
A while ago there was also a proposal to consolidate the City of Syracuse and Onondaga County.

Quote from: 1 on October 19, 2021, 07:21:14 AM
Wouldn't every single town in the county have had to agree?

In most states, incorporated cities/towns/villages/boroughs still have the rights (or legal capability) to remain incorporated.  In the case of Butte, Montana there is still one independent town (Walkerville) that chose to remain incorporated and therefore separate.  In the case of Jacksonville, Florida there are four municipal entities within the boundary of Duval County that remain independent (Baldwin, Atlantic Beach, Neptune Beach and Jacksonville Beach).  I believe that all four of these utilize a variety of Duval County services, and I can't help but think that the small town of Walkerville does the same with Butte-Silver Bow.  Atlantic Beach has actually annexed parts of Jacksonville twice since the city-county consolidation.

In an interesting twist, since Atlantic Beach, Neptune Beach and Jacksonville Beach are at the edge of the county (duh), any of them could become independent cities themselves and not be considered "remaining separate".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 20, 2021, 09:49:50 AM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on October 20, 2021, 09:26:22 AM
Quote from: vdeane on October 18, 2021, 10:05:58 PM
A while ago there was also a proposal to consolidate the City of Syracuse and Onondaga County.

Quote from: 1 on October 19, 2021, 07:21:14 AM
Wouldn't every single town in the county have had to agree?

In most states, incorporated cities/towns/villages/boroughs still have the rights (or legal capability) to remain incorporated.  In the case of Butte, Montana there is still one independent town (Walkerville) that chose to remain incorporated and therefore separate.  In the case of Jacksonville, Florida there are four municipal entities within the boundary of Duval County that remain independent (Baldwin, Atlantic Beach, Neptune Beach and Jacksonville Beach).  I believe that all four of these utilize a variety of Duval County services, and I can't help but think that the small town of Walkerville does the same with Butte-Silver Bow.  Atlantic Beach has actually annexed parts of Jacksonville twice since the city-county consolidation.

In an interesting twist, since Atlantic Beach, Neptune Beach and Jacksonville Beach are at the edge of the county (duh), any of them could become independent cities themselves and not be considered "remaining separate".

In New York, every square inch of land is part of a city or town. Annexing is impossible.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on December 07, 2021, 03:24:32 PM
Lake County, Indiana, borders both a county with a population over 5 million (Cook, IL) and one with a population under 15,000 (Newton, IN).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 07, 2021, 04:19:17 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 07, 2021, 03:24:32 PM
Lake County, Indiana, borders both a county with a population over 5 million (Cook, IL) and one with a population under 15,000 (Newton, IN).

In a similar vein, the most populous county in Colorado is not in the most populous metro area.  El Paso County surpassed Denver County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ran4sh on December 07, 2021, 05:49:12 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 19, 2021, 03:05:11 PM
Quote from: michravera on October 19, 2021, 10:46:38 AM
Yeah. People don't get that basically the entire European continent lies north of San Francisco and Washington, DC (and, for that matter, Seoul).

I've been to Malaga, which is both in Europe and South of those three cities.

One I like: The 12 foot 4 (formerly 11 foot 8) bridge lies at about the same latitude as the Southernmost tip of the Iberian Peninsula. This also means the entirety of continental Europe lies North of the world-famous bridge (some Greek islands, such as Crete, lie further South).

It's interesting that "conventional" wisdom says that the US is the same latitude as Europe. I've always thought of that as being ignorant, since it's clear that Europe is farther north than the US.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on December 07, 2021, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 07, 2021, 03:24:32 PM
Lake County, Indiana, borders both a county with a population over 5 million (Cook, IL) and one with a population under 15,000 (Newton, IN).

Decided to look around and see what are WA's starkest population differences between counties with an intermediate:

King (2.3 million) borders Chelan, which borders Douglas (42,938)

In fact, King County also borders Kittitas County, which is only slightly bigger (44,337).

Clark (503,311) borders Cowlitz, which borders Wahkiakum (4,422)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KCRoadFan on December 07, 2021, 06:37:15 PM
About those consolidated city-counties - I know that in my metro, KCK and Wyandotte County have what's called the "Unified Government". Where does that leave the town of Bonner Springs, which is largely within Wyandotte County? I believe it is still a separate municipal entity.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on December 07, 2021, 06:43:21 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on December 07, 2021, 05:49:12 PM
It's interesting that "conventional" wisdom says that the US is the same latitude as Europe. I've always thought of that as being ignorant, since it's clear that Europe is farther north than the US.

I think of my location as being in line with Europe. However, that's because I'm between 42°N and 43°N, meaning this doesn't apply to much of the US.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on December 07, 2021, 08:10:56 PM
Quote from: 1 on December 07, 2021, 06:43:21 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on December 07, 2021, 05:49:12 PM
It's interesting that "conventional" wisdom says that the US is the same latitude as Europe. I've always thought of that as being ignorant, since it's clear that Europe is farther north than the US.

I think of my location as being in line with Europe. However, that's because I'm between 42°N and 43°N, meaning this doesn't apply to much of the US.

I'm at a similar latitude to you, maybe slightly north, and I tend to think the same. Looking at it a bit more closely, my view is maybe slightly off-kilter since I know the UK and Scandanavia are north of us, but I tend to think I'm in line with France, not Spain. Climate/weather patterns probably influence our perceptions as well, since Europe is generally milder despite its latitude.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on December 07, 2021, 11:49:23 PM
I'm just about on the 48th parallel, which cuts across southern Germany (coincidentally where my ancestors originated from), Austria, Hundary, Slovakia, Ukraine, and Mongolia. It gets really close to Vienna and Bratislava, too.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: andrepoiy on December 09, 2021, 04:30:07 PM
In Ontario, I think the largest population disparity would be the City of Ottawa (it's not part of a county) and Lanark County pop 900k and 59k respectively
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bwana39 on December 09, 2021, 10:08:06 PM
Texarkana is closer to Chicago (794 mi), Indianapolis (725 mi) , Albert Lea MN (810 mi), Tallahassee (721 mi), Cincinnati(758 mi),  Asheville NC (783 mi), Abbeville SC(772 mi), Bristol VA (779 mi), Beresford SD (799), Janesville WI (809 mi) , Trinidad CO (727 mi), and  Albuquerque (781 mi) than to El Paso (814 mi).  West Virginia is just a few miles farther. This skips the states you pass through to get to these places; Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, Iowa, Missouri, Tennessee, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Kentucky, and Nebraska.

You have to force the map to follow US-82 from Texarkana to Tuscaloosa to make it less to SC. There really is not a closer route to El Paso than the primary route.

From Orange TX to El Paso (844 miles) is farther than the Atlantic ocean at Jacksonville FL (778 miles ) from Orange.

The Atlantic Ocean at Tybee Island SC (833 mi) is less than 35 miles farther from Waskom than El Paso (801 miles).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on December 10, 2021, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: webny99 on December 07, 2021, 08:10:56 PMClimate/weather patterns probably influence our perceptions as well, since Europe is generally milder despite its latitude.

The Netherlands isn't usually considered to be a very northern country by European standards, yet it's at the same latitude as Edmonton, Alberta. But during some winters the temperature only barely drops below freezing.

The northernmost Mediterranean-like summer climate in Europe is probably in South Tyrol (Italy), which is at the same latitude as North Dakota. Palm trees grow there. Though palm trees are also known to survive along the north coast of Brittany or the south coast of England, mostly due to the mild winters.

An interesting thing I did was driving down to Andalusia, Spain. The southern tip of Andalusia is in fact a bit farther south than Algiers or Tunis. Tarifa is at 36N, if you go east you'll end up in the northern reaches of the Sahara Desert. In the U.S., this latitude is in North Carolina or Oklahoma.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on December 10, 2021, 11:39:58 AM
Quote from: Chris on December 10, 2021, 10:39:20 AM
The Netherlands isn't usually considered to be a very northern country by European standards, yet it's at the same latitude as Edmonton, Alberta. But during some winters the temperature only barely drops below freezing.

That seems so strange because I think of Edmonton as being very far north, not just in terms of climate, but in terms of having basically no night in the summer and very short days in the winter. Yet the UK and Scandinavia have even more extreme daylight variation!


Quote from: Chris on December 10, 2021, 10:39:20 AM
An interesting thing I did was driving down to Andalusia, Spain. The southern tip of Andalusia is in fact a bit farther south than Algiers or Tunis. Tarifa is at 36N, if you go east you'll end up in the northern reaches of the Sahara Desert. In the U.S., this latitude is in North Carolina or Oklahoma.

Yet somehow, this makes perfect sense to me!  Although you do have to go pretty far south to get to that point; most of Spain is more aligned with NJ/PA. In fact, parts of northern Spain are north of Cape Cod. Now that does seem off, so I guess part of it might just be that Spain and France are bigger countries than we give them credit for!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on December 10, 2021, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: Bruce on December 07, 2021, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 07, 2021, 03:24:32 PM
Lake County, Indiana, borders both a county with a population over 5 million (Cook, IL) and one with a population under 15,000 (Newton, IN).

Decided to look around and see what are WA's starkest population differences between counties with an intermediate:

King (2.3 million) borders Chelan, which borders Douglas (42,938)

In fact, King County also borders Kittitas County, which is only slightly bigger (44,337).

Clark (503,311) borders Cowlitz, which borders Wahkiakum (4,422)

It's going to be tough to beat Clark and Lincoln counties in Nevada. Wiki says 2.3 million for Clark and 4500 for Lincoln.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jlam on December 10, 2021, 02:52:35 PM
Off the top of my head I thought of Maricopa and La Paz Counties in Arizona. Maricopa County is at 4.4M, while La Paz is only at 16.5K.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 10, 2021, 03:27:02 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on December 07, 2021, 04:19:17 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 07, 2021, 03:24:32 PM
Lake County, Indiana, borders both a county with a population over 5 million (Cook, IL) and one with a population under 15,000 (Newton, IN).

In a similar vein, the most populous county in Colorado is not in the most populous metro area.  El Paso County surpassed Denver County.

I started thinking about this more and was curious which other states had their most populous county not in their most populous metro area.  When dealing with multi-state metro areas, I'll use the portion of the metro area in the state in question.

Colorado - Most Populous County - El Paso (Colorado Springs), Most Populous Metro Area - Denver
Connecticut - Most Populous County - Fairfield (Bridgeport), Most Populous Metro Area - Hartford
Maryland - Most Populous County - Montgomery (Rockville), Most Populous Metro Area - Baltimore
New Hampshire - Most Populous County - Hillsborough (Manchester), Most Populous Metro Area - Boston (just the NH counties)
North Carolina - Most Populous County - Wake (Raleigh), Most Populous Metro Area - Charlotte
Tennessee - Most Populous County - Shelby (Memphis), Most Populous Metro Area - Nashville
Texas - Most Populous County - Harris (Houston), Most Populous Metro Area - Dallas/Fort Worth
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on December 11, 2021, 03:56:59 PM
Summit County, Utah borders both Utah's most populous county (Salt Lake, 1.19M) and its least (Daggett, 935).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on December 11, 2021, 09:48:20 PM
North Carolina is a now a quirk of demographics, but Charlotte (Mecklenburg County) remains the largest city whereas now Wake County (Raleigh) is the largest county.  Both Charlotte and Mecklenburg were the largest as recently as 2018.  It would not surprise me that borth Raleigh and Wake take over as the largest in near future.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: plain on December 12, 2021, 08:25:36 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on December 11, 2021, 09:48:20 PM
North Carolina is a now a quirk of demographics, but Charlotte (Mecklenburg County) remains the largest city whereas now Wake County (Raleigh) is the largest county.  Both Charlotte and Mecklenburg were the largest as recently as 2018.  It would not surprise me that borth Raleigh and Wake take over as the largest in near future.

Wake County is larger area-wise, so it's not surprising that it holds more people. Unless Mecklenburg County decides to do some Northeast-like high density suburbs, I don't think they'll ever take back the title of largest county.

Also, unless Raleigh expands its city limits, I doubt they'll overtake Charlotte anytime soon. Neither city is known for high density (except in and close to downtown).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on December 12, 2021, 09:52:38 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on December 10, 2021, 03:27:02 PM
Connecticut - Most Populous County - Fairfield (Bridgeport), Most Populous Metro Area - Hartford
Maryland - Most Populous County - Montgomery (Rockville), Most Populous Metro Area - Baltimore
New Hampshire - Most Populous County - Hillsborough (Manchester), Most Populous Metro Area - Boston (just the NH counties)

To be fair, the distinction between metro areas in these states is academic at best. But I get that you have to draw the line somewhere.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bwana39 on December 12, 2021, 10:44:17 PM
Quote from: michravera on December 10, 2021, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: Bruce on December 07, 2021, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 07, 2021, 03:24:32 PM
Lake County, Indiana, borders both a county with a population over 5 million (Cook, IL) and one with a population under 15,000 (Newton, IN).

Decided to look around and see what are WA's starkest population differences between counties with an intermediate:

King (2.3 million) borders Chelan, which borders Douglas (42,938)


In fact, King County also borders Kittitas County, which is only slightly bigger (44,337).

Clark (503,311) borders Cowlitz, which borders Wahkiakum (4,422)

It's going to be tough to beat Clark and Lincoln counties in Nevada. Wiki says 2.3 million for Clark and 4500 for Lincoln.


Texas with Harris 4.7 million to San Jacinto with about 28K. Hardin has barely more with about 30K

In north Texas Collin County Has 1.1 million and Delta County has around 5K

Bexar with just over 2 Million and Real County with about 3,500  probably wins the percentage for texas
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thspfc on December 13, 2021, 10:43:38 PM
This is sort of a shower thought. When zoomed out on a map, Pittsburgh just looks so weirdly placed. Of course, when you zoom in and see the confluence of three major rivers, it makes sense. But it's in the middle of the mountains with no other cities even close to its size within its geographical region - Cleveland is the nearest major city, but Cleveland is very much in the Midwestern flatlands (relax, almighty Carhorn), while Pittsburgh is in the mountains

Not sure if that makes any sense.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on December 14, 2021, 12:44:53 AM
Quote from: thspfc on December 13, 2021, 10:43:38 PM
This is sort of a shower thought. When zoomed out on a map, Pittsburgh just looks so weirdly placed. Of course, when you zoom in and see the confluence of three major rivers, it makes sense. But it's in the middle of the mountains with no other cities even close to its size within its geographical region - Cleveland is the nearest major city, but Cleveland is very much in the Midwestern flatlands (relax, almighty Carhorn), while Pittsburgh is in the mountains

Not sure if that makes any sense.

While Pittsburgh has a distinctly Appalachian feel, it's not so much in the mountains but rather the Allegheny Plateau (as indeed much of Appalachia is). It's a dissected plateau, so the terrain is very much hill-and-valley, but not quite with the relief differences of a mountainous area.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on December 14, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Years ago, when there were just 12 major league baseball teams in the National League, I was surprised to learn that the NL team -- indeed, maybe even in all of MLB -- with the stadium with the highest elevation above sea level was Atlanta. But when I thought about it some, and considering Atlanta's proximity to the Appalachian Mountains, it made total sense. I think it surprised me to know that the old Fulton County Stadium was higher than Three Rivers, given Pittsburgh's location in the mountains, but that stadium was next to a major body of water in a valley.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on December 14, 2021, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Years ago, when there were just 12 major league baseball teams in the National League, I was surprised to learn that the NL team -- indeed, maybe even in all of MLB -- with the stadium with the highest elevation above sea level was Atlanta. But when I thought about it some, and considering Atlanta's proximity to the Appalachian Mountains, it made total sense. I think it surprised me to know that the old Fulton County Stadium was higher than Three Rivers, given Pittsburgh's location in the mountains, but that stadium was next to a major body of water in a valley.

Obviously Colorado is 1st now, but I'd think Atlanta is still 2nd, maybe 3rd. Arizona the other one that might be higher.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 14, 2021, 02:47:01 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 14, 2021, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Years ago, when there were just 12 major league baseball teams in the National League, I was surprised to learn that the NL team -- indeed, maybe even in all of MLB -- with the stadium with the highest elevation above sea level was Atlanta. But when I thought about it some, and considering Atlanta's proximity to the Appalachian Mountains, it made total sense. I think it surprised me to know that the old Fulton County Stadium was higher than Three Rivers, given Pittsburgh's location in the mountains, but that stadium was next to a major body of water in a valley.

Obviously Colorado is 1st now, but I'd think Atlanta is still 2nd, maybe 3rd. Arizona the other one that might be higher.

(https://i.imgur.com/SEzavJU.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on December 14, 2021, 02:56:15 PM
Quote from: thspfc on December 13, 2021, 10:43:38 PM
This is sort of a shower thought. When zoomed out on a map, Pittsburgh just looks so weirdly placed. Of course, when you zoom in and see the confluence of three major rivers, it makes sense. But it's in the middle of the mountains with no other cities even close to its size within its geographical region - Cleveland is the nearest major city, but Cleveland is very much in the Midwestern flatlands (relax, almighty Carhorn), while Pittsburgh is in the mountains

Not sure if that makes any sense.

Quote from: empirestate on December 14, 2021, 12:44:53 AM
While Pittsburgh has a distinctly Appalachian feel, it's not so much in the mountains but rather the Allegheny Plateau (as indeed much of Appalachia is). It's a dissected plateau, so the terrain is very much hill-and-valley, but not quite with the relief differences of a mountainous area.

It's amazing how the tilt of the Appalachian Plateau skews the whole perception of the upper Ohio Valley.  The elevation in Morgantown, West Virginia ranges from about 800 feet along the Monongahela River to a mere 1400 feet at Sky Rock.  That's similar to the difference than Pittsburgh at a hair over 700 feet at the confluence of the Monongahela and Allegheny rivers, versus 1370 feet on top of Observatory Hill.  But the elevation differences along the New and Gauley rivers in central West Virginia are a whole different story.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CoreySamson on December 14, 2021, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on December 14, 2021, 02:47:01 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 14, 2021, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Years ago, when there were just 12 major league baseball teams in the National League, I was surprised to learn that the NL team -- indeed, maybe even in all of MLB -- with the stadium with the highest elevation above sea level was Atlanta. But when I thought about it some, and considering Atlanta's proximity to the Appalachian Mountains, it made total sense. I think it surprised me to know that the old Fulton County Stadium was higher than Three Rivers, given Pittsburgh's location in the mountains, but that stadium was next to a major body of water in a valley.

Obviously Colorado is 1st now, but I'd think Atlanta is still 2nd, maybe 3rd. Arizona the other one that might be higher.

(https://i.imgur.com/SEzavJU.png)
I would've never thought that Minute Maid Park has a higher elevation than 12 other MLB ballparks. Their ballpark has the third-highest elevation in the AL West!

On a different note, I always forget how high up in terms of elevation the Midwest is, considering its flatness when compared with the coastal flatlands.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on December 14, 2021, 03:32:23 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 14, 2021, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on December 14, 2021, 02:47:01 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 14, 2021, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Years ago, when there were just 12 major league baseball teams in the National League, I was surprised to learn that the NL team -- indeed, maybe even in all of MLB -- with the stadium with the highest elevation above sea level was Atlanta. But when I thought about it some, and considering Atlanta's proximity to the Appalachian Mountains, it made total sense. I think it surprised me to know that the old Fulton County Stadium was higher than Three Rivers, given Pittsburgh's location in the mountains, but that stadium was next to a major body of water in a valley.

Obviously Colorado is 1st now, but I'd think Atlanta is still 2nd, maybe 3rd. Arizona the other one that might be higher.

(https://i.imgur.com/SEzavJU.png)
I would've never thought that Minute Maid Park has a higher elevation than 12 other MLB ballparks. Their ballpark has the third-highest elevation in the AL West!

On a different note, I always forget how high up in terms of elevation the Midwest is, considering its flatness when compared with the coastal flatlands.

Yeah, the Great Lakes upstream from Buffalo is a lot higher than downstream from Buffalo. It's like the system just Falls right down to a different level.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dlsterner on December 14, 2021, 03:42:43 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 14, 2021, 03:14:19 PM
On a different note, I always forget how high up in terms of elevation the Midwest is, considering its flatness when compared with the coastal flatlands.

Be careful, lest you invoke the wrath of Lord Carhorn ...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on December 14, 2021, 05:29:30 PM
Yeah, the Twins having the fifth-highest elevation of MLB ballparks is one I never would have considered either.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on December 14, 2021, 05:33:02 PM
Quote from: dlsterner on December 14, 2021, 03:42:43 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 14, 2021, 03:14:19 PM
On a different note, I always forget how high up in terms of elevation the Midwest is, considering its flatness when compared with the coastal flatlands.

Be careful, lest you invoke the wrath of Lord Carhorn ...

I think he's gone back to complaining how people drive in apartment complexes and trying to find the good in Illinois. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on December 14, 2021, 07:44:58 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 14, 2021, 03:32:23 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 14, 2021, 03:14:19 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on December 14, 2021, 02:47:01 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 14, 2021, 02:44:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Years ago, when there were just 12 major league baseball teams in the National League, I was surprised to learn that the NL team -- indeed, maybe even in all of MLB -- with the stadium with the highest elevation above sea level was Atlanta. But when I thought about it some, and considering Atlanta's proximity to the Appalachian Mountains, it made total sense. I think it surprised me to know that the old Fulton County Stadium was higher than Three Rivers, given Pittsburgh's location in the mountains, but that stadium was next to a major body of water in a valley.

Obviously Colorado is 1st now, but I'd think Atlanta is still 2nd, maybe 3rd. Arizona the other one that might be higher.

(https://i.imgur.com/SEzavJU.png)
I would've never thought that Minute Maid Park has a higher elevation than 12 other MLB ballparks. Their ballpark has the third-highest elevation in the AL West!

On a different note, I always forget how high up in terms of elevation the Midwest is, considering its flatness when compared with the coastal flatlands.

Yeah, the Great Lakes upstream from Buffalo is a lot higher than downstream from Buffalo. It's like the system just Falls right down to a different level.

When is that altitude chart from, since it doesn't show the obvious Colorado Rockies difference?

If that is from the pre-Rockies era, then Cleveland's elevation is based on where Cleveland Browns Stadium currently sits ‐‐  Progressive (Jacobs) Field was built away from the lakeshore on the bluff downtown and may have eclipsed Pittsburgh's old and new stadiums with the meager altitude change.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: plain on December 14, 2021, 08:12:33 PM
Scroll the chart to the right. It shows the obvious Colorado difference.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on December 14, 2021, 09:51:27 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 14, 2021, 02:25:08 PM
Years ago, when there were just 12 major league baseball teams in the National League, I was surprised to learn that the NL team -- indeed, maybe even in all of MLB -- with the stadium with the highest elevation above sea level was Atlanta. But when I thought about it some, and considering Atlanta's proximity to the Appalachian Mountains, it made total sense. I think it surprised me to know that the old Fulton County Stadium was higher than Three Rivers, given Pittsburgh's location in the mountains, but that stadium was next to a major body of water in a valley.
And to think some sports writers actually used Atlanta's elevation (all of 1,050 feet) to throw shade at Henry Aaron's home run total back in the late 60s and early 70s.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: skluth on February 01, 2022, 03:57:49 PM
Quote from: michravera on December 10, 2021, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: Bruce on December 07, 2021, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 07, 2021, 03:24:32 PM
Lake County, Indiana, borders both a county with a population over 5 million (Cook, IL) and one with a population under 15,000 (Newton, IN).

Decided to look around and see what are WA's starkest population differences between counties with an intermediate:

King (2.3 million) borders Chelan, which borders Douglas (42,938)

In fact, King County also borders Kittitas County, which is only slightly bigger (44,337).

Clark (503,311) borders Cowlitz, which borders Wahkiakum (4,422)

It's going to be tough to beat Clark and Lincoln counties in Nevada. Wiki says 2.3 million for Clark and 4500 for Lincoln.
California - LA County - 9.8 million vs Inyo 18,546. Both counties are adjacent to Kern County and San Bernardino County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on February 02, 2022, 10:46:05 PM
Quote from: skluth on February 01, 2022, 03:57:49 PM
Quote from: michravera on December 10, 2021, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: Bruce on December 07, 2021, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 07, 2021, 03:24:32 PM
Lake County, Indiana, borders both a county with a population over 5 million (Cook, IL) and one with a population under 15,000 (Newton, IN).

Decided to look around and see what are WA's starkest population differences between counties with an intermediate:

King (2.3 million) borders Chelan, which borders Douglas (42,938)

In fact, King County also borders Kittitas County, which is only slightly bigger (44,337).

Clark (503,311) borders Cowlitz, which borders Wahkiakum (4,422)

It's going to be tough to beat Clark and Lincoln counties in Nevada. Wiki says 2.3 million for Clark and 4500 for Lincoln.
California - LA County - 9.8 million vs Inyo 18,546. Both counties are adjacent to Kern County and San Bernardino County.
Very nearly a TIE!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on March 06, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-500c18aa5e1d99fd3583116f8393db96-c)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on March 06, 2022, 06:30:51 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on March 06, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-500c18aa5e1d99fd3583116f8393db96-c)
Heh.  I have seen so many versions of this that are wrong that it is hard to trust one when it's right.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: oscar on March 06, 2022, 06:54:09 PM
Quote from: michravera on December 10, 2021, 02:46:45 PM
It's going to be tough to beat Clark and Lincoln counties in Nevada. Wiki says 2.3 million for Clark and 4500 for Lincoln.

In Hawaii, Maui County's 2020 Census population was 164,754. Kalawao County, only 82. Those two counties share a land border, but neither has a land border with any other county.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on March 06, 2022, 09:20:30 PM
Quote from: oscar on March 06, 2022, 06:54:09 PM
Quote from: michravera on December 10, 2021, 02:46:45 PM
It's going to be tough to beat Clark and Lincoln counties in Nevada. Wiki says 2.3 million for Clark and 4500 for Lincoln.

In Hawaii, Maui County's 2020 Census population was 164,754. Kalawao County, only 82. Those two counties share a land border, but neither has a land border with any other county.

MN's is pretty unspectacular. St. Louis County (200K) bordering Lake County (11K).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on March 07, 2022, 07:17:02 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 06, 2022, 06:30:51 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on March 06, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-500c18aa5e1d99fd3583116f8393db96-c)
Heh.  I have seen so many versions of this that are wrong that it is hard to trust one when it's right.


I measured those distances in Google Maps, and this map is in fact right.

Also, look at the size of Greenland compared to Africa. In reality, Greenland almost fits within Congo Kinshasa.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on March 07, 2022, 07:20:28 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on March 06, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-500c18aa5e1d99fd3583116f8393db96-c)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLqC3FNNOaI
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on March 07, 2022, 10:11:02 AM
The White House, the Empire State Building, and Boston City Hall are in perfect alignment.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on March 07, 2022, 10:29:18 AM
Quote from: 1 on March 07, 2022, 10:11:02 AM
The White House, the Empire State Building, and Boston City Hall are in perfect alignment.

on what issues?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on March 07, 2022, 10:36:04 AM
Quote from: 1 on March 07, 2022, 10:11:02 AM
The White House, the Empire State Building, and Boston City Hall are in perfect alignment.

I don't know that it defies conventional wisdom, but this is fuckin cool. The Massachusetts State House in Boston is an even better known landmark over there and produces an even better match at the Empire State Building if the Google Maps straight-line distance tool is any indication.

Cue conspiracy theory surrounding all this in 3..2..1...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on March 07, 2022, 01:10:55 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on March 07, 2022, 07:17:02 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 06, 2022, 06:30:51 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on March 06, 2022, 03:24:45 PM
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-500c18aa5e1d99fd3583116f8393db96-c)
Heh.  I have seen so many versions of this that are wrong that it is hard to trust one when it's right.


I measured those distances in Google Maps, and this map is in fact right.

Also, look at the size of Greenland compared to Africa. In reality, Greenland almost fits within Congo Kinshasa.

This is the main failing of the Mercator projection in making northern landmasses appear far larger than they are (Greenland is smaller than Australia, but you wouldn't know it from this map). This is why I typically trust other projections better, although all projections have their own drawbacks that come with trying to print a map of an imperfectly-shaped sphere.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SD Mapman on March 07, 2022, 01:23:08 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 06, 2022, 09:20:30 PM
Quote from: oscar on March 06, 2022, 06:54:09 PM
Quote from: michravera on December 10, 2021, 02:46:45 PM
It's going to be tough to beat Clark and Lincoln counties in Nevada. Wiki says 2.3 million for Clark and 4500 for Lincoln.

In Hawaii, Maui County's 2020 Census population was 164,754. Kalawao County, only 82. Those two counties share a land border, but neither has a land border with any other county.

MN's is pretty unspectacular. St. Louis County (200K) bordering Lake County (11K).
Yeah, SD's isn't that spectacular either, with Pennington (109,222) bordering Haakon (1,872)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on March 08, 2022, 09:29:24 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 07, 2022, 01:10:55 PM
This is the main failing of the Mercator projection in making northern landmasses appear far larger than they are (Greenland is smaller than Australia, but you wouldn't know it from this map). This is why I typically trust other projections better, although all projections have their own drawbacks that come with trying to print a map of an imperfectly-shaped sphere.

I think you've nicely encapsulated what it means to "trust" something. You know the shortcomings of the Mercator projection, so really, you don't need to trust it any more or less than another projection–you can simply trust yourself to appropriately digest the information it gives.

The same principle applies when reading, say, Wikipedia or Yelp reviews. :-)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 12, 2022, 04:42:54 PM
I just realized this one:

The southern border of Baja California is farther north than Corpus Christi (TX), and is at the same latitude as Tampa (FL).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jlam on April 12, 2022, 05:02:49 PM
Part of California is further south than the northernmost point of Mexico and part of it is further north than the southernmost point of Canada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on April 12, 2022, 05:12:55 PM
Quote from: jlam on April 12, 2022, 05:02:49 PM
Part of California is further south than the northernmost point of Mexico and part of it is further north than the southernmost point of Canada.

I recently read about the latter.  The northern parts of Utah and Nevada are also further north than the most southern point in Canada. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: elsmere241 on April 13, 2022, 10:28:38 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned (I haven't read the whole thread) but some of us may remember the 1992 discovery of a 5,300-year-old corpse in the Alps.  A survey was conducted to determine which country he had been found in, Italy or Austria.  The surveyors found that based on the survey markings, the site was in Italy, but that had the boundary been marked more correctly, it would have been in Austria.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: elsmere241 on April 13, 2022, 10:44:39 AM
Quote from: Bruce on May 10, 2021, 01:47:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 10, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
I don't think it's legit to include cities that don't use the Latin alphabet in their native language.

As long as we're following their modern official transliteration, it should be fine.

Quite a few countries have gone back to correct colonialist Anglicizations like China (Peking -> Beijing) and Korea (Pusan -> Busan), so the modern names there should reflect the government's wishes.

Beijing is still "Pechino" (with a hard "ch") in Italian.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on April 13, 2022, 03:06:49 PM
And still "Pekín" in Spanish.
Quote from: elsmere241 on April 13, 2022, 10:28:38 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned (I haven't read the whole thread) but some of us may remember the 1992 discovery of a 5,300-year-old corpse in the Alps.  A survey was conducted to determine which country he had been found in, Italy or Austria.  The surveyors found that based on the survey markings, the site was in Italy, but that had the boundary been marked more correctly, it would have been in Austria.

Ötzi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi). It was in 1991, BTW.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on April 20, 2022, 02:44:10 PM
Despite the northeastern United States being known for having smaller states and having given locations being in close proximity to more than one state, Cimarron County, Oklahoma is the only county in the US that borders counties from five states and has the only location in the US less than 27 miles from five different states.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on April 20, 2022, 05:58:23 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on April 13, 2022, 10:44:39 AM
Quote from: Bruce on May 10, 2021, 01:47:13 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 10, 2021, 12:02:12 AM
I don't think it's legit to include cities that don't use the Latin alphabet in their native language.

As long as we're following their modern official transliteration, it should be fine.

Quite a few countries have gone back to correct colonialist Anglicizations like China (Peking -> Beijing) and Korea (Pusan -> Busan), so the modern names there should reflect the government's wishes.

Beijing is still "Pechino" (with a hard "ch") in Italian.

And Pékin in French.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on April 20, 2022, 05:59:05 PM
Quote from: empirestate on March 08, 2022, 09:29:24 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 07, 2022, 01:10:55 PM
This is the main failing of the Mercator projection in making northern landmasses appear far larger than they are (Greenland is smaller than Australia, but you wouldn't know it from this map). This is why I typically trust other projections better, although all projections have their own drawbacks that come with trying to print a map of an imperfectly-shaped sphere.

I think you've nicely encapsulated what it means to "trust" something. You know the shortcomings of the Mercator projection, so really, you don't need to trust it any more or less than another projection–you can simply trust yourself to appropriately digest the information it gives.

The same principle applies when reading, say, Wikipedia or Yelp reviews. :-)

There's a limit to that though, like how the placebo effect still works even when you know you're taking a placebo.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on April 20, 2022, 07:58:59 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 20, 2022, 02:44:10 PM
Despite the northeastern United States being known for having smaller states and having given locations being in close proximity to more than one state, Cimarron County, Oklahoma is the only county in the US that borders counties from five states and has the only location in the US less than 27 miles from five different states.

Interesting! That's one of the better fun facts found in this thread. Thought I could find another example somewhere, but to no avail (although a few spots come close).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on April 20, 2022, 08:29:08 PM
Speaking of Cimarron County: the closest interstate highway to Felt, OK -- about 95 miles away -- is I-25.

And (though this seems familiar, probably noted before), Felt is closer to Denver and Santa Fe than to its own capital city.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dlsterner on April 20, 2022, 11:13:09 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on April 20, 2022, 02:44:10 PM
Cimarron County, Oklahoma is the only county in the US that borders counties from five states and has the only location in the US less than 27 miles from five different states.

And because of this, Cimarron County is the only county in the US that contains three state tri-points.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on April 21, 2022, 12:56:11 AM
I spent a good several hours in Cimarron County last spring. Went to two of those tripoints and hiked Black Mesa, the highest point in Oklahoma (which, perhaps unsurprisingly, is almost on the New Mexico border). It's a fascinating world out there - extremely remote and with terrain you wouldn't normally associate with Oklahoma. Boise City has something like two gas stations, the well known county courthouse roundabout, and not much else.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: wriddle082 on April 21, 2022, 03:38:00 AM
Jefferson County, WV is closer to the capitals of the two other states that it borders (Richmond, VA and Annapolis, MD), plus the capitals of two other states that it doesn’t border (Harrisburg, PA and Dover, DE), than it’s own capital (Charleston).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on April 21, 2022, 06:38:55 AM
There are places in southwest Virginia that are closer to several other state capitals than to Richmond.

https://www.howderfamily.com/blog/remote-southwestern-virginia/
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 09:27:58 AM
Quote from: kurumi on April 20, 2022, 08:29:08 PM
And (though this seems familiar, probably noted before), Felt is closer to Denver and Santa Fe than to its own capital city.

That doesn't seem to "defy conventional wisdom" to me at all, considering I grew up in a Kansas town that's more than 100 miles closer to Denver than Topeka.

Along those lines, though...
Jackson, WY:  closer to Boise, Salt Lake City, or Helena than it is to Cheyenne.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 21, 2022, 09:49:43 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 09:27:58 AM
Quote from: kurumi on April 20, 2022, 08:29:08 PM
And (though this seems familiar, probably noted before), Felt is closer to Denver and Santa Fe than to its own capital city.

That doesn't seem to "defy conventional wisdom" to me at all, considering I grew up in a Kansas town that's more than 100 miles closer to Denver than Topeka.

Along those lines, though...
Jackson, WY:  closer to Boise, Salt Lake City, or Helena than it is to Cheyenne.

Indianapolis is my closest state capital, but three others are all < 40 miles farther.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on April 21, 2022, 06:46:54 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 09:27:58 AM
Along those lines, though...
Jackson, WY:  closer to Boise, Salt Lake City, or Helena than it is to Cheyenne.

I imagine there's lots of these in Wyoming, considering that Cheyenne is unusually off-center for a state capital. (Not to imply that state capitals are usually in the dead center of the state like my own is, but they're also not usually down in an extreme corner of the state like Cheyenne is.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 07:12:42 PM
Vegas is considerably closer to Phoenix than Carson City if we're looking at bigger cities.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Takumi on April 21, 2022, 07:19:08 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2022, 06:46:54 PM
(Not to imply that state capitals are usually in the dead center of the state like my own is, but they're also not usually down in an extreme corner of the state like Cheyenne is.)
Imagine if Williamsburg was still Virginia's capital. Richmond is a bit off-center, but Williamsburg is a bit more conspicuously so. With Virginia's geographical center being in the absolute middle of nowhere in Buckingham County, a place like Appomattox or Scottsville or even Charlottesville (cue rage from those who have spent years in Blacksburg) would be closer to that.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on April 21, 2022, 08:51:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?

I remember reading an Andy Rooney essay where he advocated moving the national capital to Lebanon, Kansas, not just because it would then be in the center of the country, but also so that, like anyone does when they move, the government would be forced to go through all of the junk it's accumulated over the past 200 years and get rid of a lot of it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on April 21, 2022, 08:58:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?

It's pretty central on a north/south axis... but not even close on an east/west axis.

Kansas City would be pretty good location if the capital were to ever move.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tchafe1978 on April 21, 2022, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2022, 08:58:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?

It's pretty central on a north/south axis... but not even close on an east/west axis.

Kansas City would be pretty good location if the capital were to ever move.

It was fairly centrally located when the country was founded and the site of the capital was selected, however.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: zachary_amaryllis on April 21, 2022, 09:18:48 PM
Quote from: jlam on October 17, 2021, 10:16:47 AM
Quote from: US 89 on October 16, 2021, 12:30:26 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 15, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on October 15, 2021, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on October 14, 2021, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 13, 2021, 07:57:02 PM

Baltimore is not in Baltimore County.


When looking up transportation maps in Georgia, I found to great confusion that Macon is not in Macon County.

And Richmond, Virginia isn't in Richmond County.

But Baltimore isn't in Baltimore County because it's an independent city that is surrounded by Baltimore County.

Yeah, that's the point.  In Texas there numerous cities that are not in their namesake counties, but it's a naming issue which is a different case.  The Baltimore thing is one of the few instances that I can think of where the namesake county is just outside the city because the city was basically carved out of the county.  Different than a consolidated city/county like St. Louis and Denver.

St Louis is exactly the same thing as Baltimore. In 1877 the city of St Louis seceded from St Louis County to become an independent city.
Denver has two independent cities (Denver and Broomfield, the latter becoming independent in 2001), but none seceded from a county of the same name.

Broomfield was a hot mess before they became their own county. There was a little sliver of it, that had to go to Greeley to register cars etc, because it was in Weld County. Aurora keeps trying to do the same thing since it's in 2 or 3 different counties.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 21, 2022, 09:39:32 PM
Quote from: zachary_amaryllis on April 21, 2022, 09:18:48 PM
Aurora keeps trying to do the same thing since it's in 2 or 3 different counties.

Adams, Arapahoe, and Douglas for the record.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: oscar on April 21, 2022, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2022, 08:51:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?

I remember reading an Andy Rooney essay where he advocated moving the national capital to Lebanon, Kansas, not just because it would then be in the center of the country, but also so that, like anyone does when they move, the government would be forced to go through all of the junk it's accumulated over the past 200 years and get rid of a lot of it.

President Trump tried a super-small beer version of that, moving a small office in the Agriculture Department to Kansas City, expecting that the office could downsize, especially since some employees would quit rather than make the move (for sensible reasons, such as spouses who worked in other Federal jobs that couldn't move to KC).

This was done so late in the President's term that, IIRC, it didn't stick with the change of administrations, though still with some heartburn among the affected employees.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on April 21, 2022, 10:05:13 PM
Quote from: oscar on April 21, 2022, 10:01:39 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2022, 08:51:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?

I remember reading an Andy Rooney essay where he advocated moving the national capital to Lebanon, Kansas, not just because it would then be in the center of the country, but also so that, like anyone does when they move, the government would be forced to go through all of the junk it's accumulated over the past 200 years and get rid of a lot of it.

President Trump tried a super-small beer version of that, moving a small office in the Agriculture Department to Kansas City, expecting that the office could downsize, especially since some employees would quit rather than make the move (for sensible reasons, such as spouses who worked in other Federal jobs that couldn't move to KC).

This was done so late in the President's term that, IIRC, it didn't stick with the change of administrations, though still with some heartburn among the affected employees.

The Bureau of Land Management was also temporarily relocated to Grand Junction, CO, which was also reversed after the turnover.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on April 21, 2022, 10:58:21 PM
Quote from: US 89 on April 21, 2022, 12:56:11 AM
I spent a good several hours in Cimarron County last spring. Went to two of those tripoints and hiked Black Mesa, the highest point in Oklahoma (which, perhaps unsurprisingly, is almost on the New Mexico border). It's a fascinating world out there - extremely remote and with terrain you wouldn't normally associate with Oklahoma. Boise City has something like two gas stations, the well known county courthouse roundabout, and not much else.

So did I last summer, and saw all three tri points in one day. It took way longer than I thought.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on April 22, 2022, 01:08:29 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2022, 08:58:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?

It's pretty central on a north/south axis... but not even close on an east/west axis.

Kansas City would be pretty good location if the capital were to ever move.

Denver is already essentially the capital of the West. It even feels a bit like DC in spots.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on April 22, 2022, 01:55:13 AM
Quote from: empirestate on April 22, 2022, 01:08:29 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2022, 08:58:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?

It's pretty central on a north/south axis... but not even close on an east/west axis.

Kansas City would be pretty good location if the capital were to ever move.

Denver is already essentially the capital of the West. It even feels a bit like DC in spots.

For the Mountain West, maybe. Certainly not for the West Coast.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 22, 2022, 06:35:21 AM
Quote from: Bruce on April 22, 2022, 01:55:13 AM
Quote from: empirestate on April 22, 2022, 01:08:29 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 21, 2022, 08:58:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?

It's pretty central on a north/south axis... but not even close on an east/west axis.

Kansas City would be pretty good location if the capital were to ever move.

Denver is already essentially the capital of the West. It even feels a bit like DC in spots.

For the Mountain West, maybe. Certainly not for the West Coast.
Denver feels a world away from SLC.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 21, 2022, 10:05:13 PM

Quote from: oscar on April 21, 2022, 10:01:39 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2022, 08:51:27 PM

Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?

I remember reading an Andy Rooney essay where he advocated moving the national capital to Lebanon, Kansas, not just because it would then be in the center of the country, but also so that, like anyone does when they move, the government would be forced to go through all of the junk it's accumulated over the past 200 years and get rid of a lot of it.

President Trump tried a super-small beer version of that, moving a small office in the Agriculture Department to Kansas City, expecting that the office could downsize, especially since some employees would quit rather than make the move (for sensible reasons, such as spouses who worked in other Federal jobs that couldn't move to KC).

This was done so late in the President's term that, IIRC, it didn't stick with the change of administrations, though still with some heartburn among the affected employees.

The Bureau of Land Management was also temporarily relocated to Grand Junction, CO, which was also reversed after the turnover.

You've got to admit:  there's just something that feels right about an Ag office being in the Midwest, and about the BLM being west of the Front Range.

But now I'm wondering:  how often does this type of office relocation happen?  Never?  Occasionally?  Every few years?

It must have stunk for the people who had to relocate twice...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 09:35:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 22, 2022, 06:35:21 AM
Denver feels a world away from SLC.

Grand Junction feels a world away from SLC.

Yay or nay?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2022, 09:37:39 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 09:35:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 22, 2022, 06:35:21 AM
Denver feels a world away from SLC.

Grand Junction feels a world away from SLC.

Yay or nay?

For that matter, SLC feels a world away from most of central and southern Utah.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2022, 09:48:38 AM
I'd venture that Denver and SLC might not feel so far apart if they weren't 370 miles apart as the crow flies and over 500 miles apart by road.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: abefroman329 on April 22, 2022, 09:52:18 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 09:34:00 AMBut now I'm wondering:  how often does this type of office relocation happen?  Never?  Occasionally?  Every few years?
Within the DMV?  At least once a lifetime, probably.  A friend of mine is a retired Air Force JAG, and in the 8ish years he was located in DC, he had to have had at least four different office spaces - one at the Pentagon, one at Andrews, one at Fort Meade, and one or two leased office spaces in NoVA.

From DC to another part of the country?  Well, doesn't it make the most sense to have, say, the USDA in DC when the head of the agency (the Secretary of Agriculture) is in DC, and their boss (the President) is in DC?

Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 09:34:00 AMIt must have stunk for the people who had to relocate twice...
I don't think anyone had to move at all.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 09:55:16 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2022, 09:48:38 AM
I'd venture that Denver and SLC might not feel so far apart if they weren't 370 miles apart as the crow flies and over 500 miles apart by road.

But I think it's more than that.  Earlier, I posited that GJ seems worlds away from SLC, yet it's less than a 300-mile drive.

I haven't spent a huge amount of time in that part of Colorado, though, so I may be wrong in my impression.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 10:02:00 AM
I kind of feel like GJ is the edge of Colorado World™, Fruita is in the borderlands, the Toontown wall is somewhere near Mack, and nothing exists west of mile marker 8.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2022, 10:04:10 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 10:02:00 AM
I kind of feel like GJ is the edge of Colorado World™, Fruita is in the borderlands, the Toontown wall is somewhere near Mack, and nothing exists west of mile marker 8.

Even GJ feels miles apart from Denver. Basically anything west of Glenwood Springs and north of Montrose has a completely different feel, with the exception of the Grand Mesa and surrounds.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2022, 10:13:10 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 09:55:16 AM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2022, 09:48:38 AM
I'd venture that Denver and SLC might not feel so far apart if they weren't 370 miles apart as the crow flies and over 500 miles apart by road.

But I think it's more than that.  Earlier, I posited that GJ seems worlds away from SLC, yet it's less than a 300-mile drive.

I haven't spent a huge amount of time in that part of Colorado, though, so I may be wrong in my impression.

I don't know, I don't doubt that's true, but it seems like it would also be true of many 300-mile drives. 

Re-reading my post, I can see how it reads like "they're just really far apart", but I was actually meaning to emphasize the difference between the physical distance and the road distance. In other words, would it still feel like such a long distance if there was a direct interstate connection between the two?

There's also the fact that the largest mountain range on the continent lies primarily between those two cities, so it's bound to feel a little different one on side than it does on the other. That doesn't explain Grand Junction, but then again, one could probably make a case that GJ seems worlds away from Denver, too (edit: but don't take it from me  ↓  :))

Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2022, 10:04:10 AM
Even GJ feels miles apart from Denver.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2022, 10:19:54 AM
Not sure if this should be its own thread, but since we're talking about things that feel so different but only traveling x amount of miles... Obviously out west we have a lot of variety (Mt. Whitney is only 85 miles from Badwater Basin). But east of the Mississippi, what's the most variety you can have within a 200 mile drive? This shouldn't include the heart of Manhattan to rural upstate New York, since any urban/rural comparison will be pretty stark. But either city to city feelings or nature to nature feelings, if that makes sense.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on April 22, 2022, 10:33:37 AM
It's over 200 miles (293 to be exact) but I would submit Buffalo to Albany.

Buffalo is rust belt central and Albany is not like that at all given the state government, ties to NYC, and just general white collar vibes.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 22, 2022, 10:33:44 AM
Within NY, despite some people's misgivings in Buffalo, there does seem to be a possessiveness despite the wide variety of demographics from Montauk to Niagara.  "We are all in this together, whether you like it or not."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2022, 10:41:28 AM
Just off the top of my head to answer my own question, but Roanoke to Washington is just under 200 miles as the crow flies. That strikes me as pretty different for cities. Maybe Columbus to Charleston, WV?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: skluth on April 22, 2022, 11:29:20 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 22, 2022, 10:19:54 AM
Not sure if this should be its own thread, but since we're talking about things that feel so different but only traveling x amount of miles... Obviously out west we have a lot of variety (Mt. Whitney is only 85 miles from Badwater Basin). But east of the Mississippi, what's the most variety you can have within a 200 mile drive? This shouldn't include the heart of Manhattan to rural upstate New York, since any urban/rural comparison will be pretty stark. But either city to city feelings or nature to nature feelings, if that makes sense.

It's less than 70 miles from Mount Washington, NH (>6,000') to Portland, ME at sea level. Goes from mountain peak to coastal harbor. There are wide valleys, large lakes, farming communities, lots of forest, mountainous terrain, and even a bit of alluvial plain between the two. The climate at the two endpoints couldn't be more different. And while it's not as populated as Southern New England, it's a lot more populous than the Owens Valley between Death Valley and Mount Whitney. It's less than a 100 mile drive from Portland to the cog railway to the top of Mount Washington, mostly along US 302. If you want to avoid an urban comparison between endpoints, compare Mt Washington to a more serene point on the coast like one of the state parks at a sandy beach or a rocky promontory.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 11:42:04 AM
Anything with Chicago in between feels like two separate worlds to me.  So, say, South Bend and Rockford.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on April 22, 2022, 11:54:08 AM
Quote from: Bruce on April 22, 2022, 01:55:13 AM
Quote from: empirestate on April 22, 2022, 01:08:29 AM
Denver is already essentially the capital of the West. It even feels a bit like DC in spots.

For the Mountain West, maybe. Certainly not for the West Coast.

For neither–just for the West. And DC for the East. My scheme envisions no further divisions, but a scheme that does would have course include more capitals than two.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on April 22, 2022, 05:44:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2022, 09:48:38 AM
I'd venture that Denver and SLC might not feel so far apart if they weren't 370 miles apart as the crow flies and over 500 miles apart by road.

I have often likened Denver and SLC as "mirror images" of each other in several ways:

The bulk of each metropolitan area and nearby sizeable urban areas runs North/South along a single Interstate corridor and what little urban areas that run East/West  from the downtown areas are found along a single beltway route that runs about ¾ths of the way around town.

Both cities are at the foot of sizeable mountains on one side and no-mans land on the other, hence the majority of travel is usually north-south.  And as soon as you hit those areas, local traffic decreases very quickly, leaving just weekend getaway traffic and longer-distance travel.  Pass the airports on either interstate and it's like flipping a switch.

Each of the two cities are pretty much the only sizeable cities for 6+ hours/hundreds of miles in any direction by car.

Both towns can have very localized weather climates, compared to the rest of the region. 

I'm sure there are several other factoids that are shared by both cities, but those are the ones I'll start with.

And yes, I live in the Grand Junction area, thank you very much!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 22, 2022, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 22, 2022, 05:44:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2022, 09:48:38 AM
I'd venture that Denver and SLC might not feel so far apart if they weren't 370 miles apart as the crow flies and over 500 miles apart by road.

I have often likened Denver and SLC as "mirror images" of each other in several ways:

The bulk of each metropolitan area and nearby sizeable urban areas runs North/South along a single Interstate corridor and what little urban areas that run East/West  from the downtown areas are found along a single beltway route that runs about ¾ths of the way around town.

Both cities are at the foot of sizeable mountains on one side and no-mans land on the other, hence the majority of travel is usually north-south.  And as soon as you hit those areas, local traffic decreases very quickly, leaving just weekend getaway traffic and longer-distance travel.  Pass the airports on either interstate and it's like flipping a switch.

Each of the two cities are pretty much the only sizeable cities for 6+ hours/hundreds of miles in any direction by car.

Both towns can have very localized weather climates, compared to the rest of the region. 

I'm sure there are several other factoids that are shared by both cities, but those are the ones I'll start with.

And yes, I live in the Grand Junction area, thank you very much!
Not sure how they're a mirror of each other.  Physical geopgraphical similarities aside, both cities' composition and cultures are quite different.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on April 23, 2022, 11:07:33 PM
Geographically speaking in a climatic vein:

Average precipitation:

London, England: 27.2 inches

Lincoln, Nebraska: 30.9 inches
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on April 24, 2022, 12:14:54 AM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2022, 09:34:00 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 21, 2022, 10:05:13 PM

Quote from: oscar on April 21, 2022, 10:01:39 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2022, 08:51:27 PM

Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2022, 08:46:23 PM
Our nation's capital is rather off-center, isn't it?

I remember reading an Andy Rooney essay where he advocated moving the national capital to Lebanon, Kansas, not just because it would then be in the center of the country, but also so that, like anyone does when they move, the government would be forced to go through all of the junk it's accumulated over the past 200 years and get rid of a lot of it.

President Trump tried a super-small beer version of that, moving a small office in the Agriculture Department to Kansas City, expecting that the office could downsize, especially since some employees would quit rather than make the move (for sensible reasons, such as spouses who worked in other Federal jobs that couldn't move to KC).

This was done so late in the President's term that, IIRC, it didn't stick with the change of administrations, though still with some heartburn among the affected employees.

The Bureau of Land Management was also temporarily relocated to Grand Junction, CO, which was also reversed after the turnover.

You've got to admit:  there's just something that feels right about an Ag office being in the Midwest, and about the BLM being west of the Front Range.

But now I'm wondering:  how often does this type of office relocation happen?  Never?  Occasionally?  Every few years?

It must have stunk for the people who had to relocate twice...

I remember the discussion of this, and actually thought it happened fairly early in Trump's term.

It brings to mind a frequent gripe that I have. Governments are too centralized. It just makes sense for ag-based agencies to be located closer to farms and ranches, and land management agencies to be based near the areas where the government owns a bunch of land. The people in those areas are better-versed in the issues than are bureaucrats in DC, hundreds of miles away from where the action is.

This is especially true now that we have made technological advances that allow for remote meetings.

This almost impacted me a few years ago. Not long after I started my current job, the director of Public Affairs transferred to another position. There was talk of appointing me interim director but having me work out of my existing office, two hours from Frankfort, but they found a permanent (well, as permanent as a political appointee can be) director in short order.

I'm a firm believer in the decentralization of the government. Put the offices out in the field, not in DC or the state capital.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 24, 2022, 12:21:43 AM


Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2022, 12:14:54 AM

This almost impacted me a few years ago. Not long after I started my current job, the director of Public Affairs transferred to another position. There was talk of appointing me interim director but having me work out of my existing office, two hours from Frankfort, but they found a permanent (well, as permanent as a political appointee can be) director in short order.

I'm a firm believer in the decentralization of the government. Put the offices out in the field, not in DC or the state capital.

Heh.  That doesn't sound self-serving at all.  I can appreciate positions in one's own interest, though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 24, 2022, 12:22:46 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on April 23, 2022, 11:07:33 PM
Geographically speaking in a climatic vein:

Average precipitation:

London, England: 27.2 inches

Lincoln, Nebraska: 30.9 inches
That's a good one.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on April 24, 2022, 01:16:54 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 24, 2022, 12:14:54 AM
It brings to mind a frequent gripe that I have. Governments are too centralized. It just makes sense for ag-based agencies to be located closer to farms and ranches, and land management agencies to be based near the areas where the government owns a bunch of land. The people in those areas are better-versed in the issues than are bureaucrats in DC, hundreds of miles away from where the action is.

This seems logical, but then don't you have experts in the field who suck at governing, because they're hundreds of miles from the seat of government?

Of course, there are many who feel that the best way to govern is not to, so perhaps it is logical after all. :-P
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tdindy88 on April 24, 2022, 01:26:52 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on April 23, 2022, 11:07:33 PM
Geographically speaking in a climatic vein:

Average precipitation:

London, England: 27.2 inches

Lincoln, Nebraska: 30.9 inches

I believe it. I spent a week in New York City in late May 2017 and never saw the sun out for an entire day, it was cloudy, rainy or the sun would appear for a few hours in the morning or evening, but never a clear day. The next year I was in London at the same time of the year and saw more sunshine than I expected. There was still a cloudy and a rainy day in there but the weather was much better than I expected.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on April 24, 2022, 01:36:19 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on April 23, 2022, 11:07:33 PM
Geographically speaking in a climatic vein:

Average precipitation:

London, England: 27.2 inches

Lincoln, Nebraska: 30.9 inches

Seattle: 37.18 inches

Atlanta: 49.71 inches

New York City: 46.6 inches

We just have frequent rain that is light and easy to deal with.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 24, 2022, 07:36:35 AM
Quote from: Bruce on April 24, 2022, 01:36:19 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on April 23, 2022, 11:07:33 PM
Geographically speaking in a climatic vein:

Average precipitation:

London, England: 27.2 inches

Lincoln, Nebraska: 30.9 inches

Seattle: 37.18 inches

Atlanta: 49.71 inches

New York City: 46.6 inches

We just have frequent rain that is light and easy to deal with.
Yeah, I'm wondering if number of cloudy days would be a better comparison.  London fog os more comparable to the constant Seattle drizzle?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on April 24, 2022, 10:29:07 AM
(data from wikipedia, annual stats)

Paris
- average precipitation: 637.4mm (25.09in)
- average precipitation days: 111.1 (of which 11.9 are snowy)
- average relative humidity: 76
- mean sunshine hours: 1661.6
- percent possible sunshine: 35%

London
- average precipitation: 615.0mm (24.21in)
- average precipitation days: 111.7 (no data for snowy days, presumably because it's very low)
- average relative humidity: 73
- mean sunshine hours: 1,674.8
- percent possible sunshine: 35%

So why does London have a reputation for being dull and wet, but Paris doesn't? London is raining for just half a day more, but is slightly less humid, sees slightly less precipitation and slightly more sun.

Oh, and for completeness:

Seattle
- average precipitation: 999mm (39.34in)
- average precipitation days: 156.2 (of which 4.7 are snowy)
- average relative humidity: 73.3
- mean sunshine hours: 2169.7
- percent possible sunshine: 49%

NYC
- average precipitation: 1258mm (49.52in)
- average precipitation days: 125.4 (of which 11.4 are snowy)
- average relative humidity: 63
- mean sunshine hours: 2534.7
- percent possible sunshine: 57%

Atlanta
- average precipitation: 1281mm (50.43in)
- average precipitation days: 116.3 (of which 1.5 are snowy)
- average relative humidity: 68.3
- mean sunshine hours: 2738.3
- percent possible sunshine: 62%

Lincoln
- average precipitation: 745mm (29.34in)
- average precipitation days: 95.3 (of which 17.9 are snowy)
- average relative humidity: 68.6
- mean sunshine hours: 2761.7
- percent possible sunshine: 52%

Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2022, 07:36:35 AMLondon fog os more comparable to the constant Seattle drizzle?
London drizzle is comparable with Seattle drizzle. The fog is something else.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: formulanone on April 24, 2022, 10:45:09 AM
Quote from: english si on April 24, 2022, 10:29:07 AM
Oh, and for completeness:

While not a gamma world city (appropriately delta, but more theoretically a notch below "Sufficiency")...there's Mobile, Alabama:

- average precipitation: 1704mm
- average precipitation days: 117.1
- average relative humidity: 75%
- mean sunshine hours: 2691

It seems to be my experience that windshield wipers are never easier to sell than in Mobile...

Quote from: english si on April 24, 2022, 10:29:07 AM
So why does London have a reputation for being dull and wet, but Paris doesn't? London is raining for just half a day more, but is slightly less humid, sees slightly less precipitation and slightly more sun.

Almost certainly, it's because we hear and read more about London than Paris.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 24, 2022, 10:46:27 AM


Quote from: english si on April 24, 2022, 10:29:07 AM
(data from wikipedia, annual stats)

Paris
- average precipitation: 637.4mm (25.09in)
- average precipitation days: 111.1 (of which 11.9 are snowy)
- average relative humidity: 76
- mean sunshine hours: 1661.6
- percent possible sunshine: 35%

London
- average precipitation: 615.0mm (24.21in)
- average precipitation days: 111.7 (no data for snowy days, presumably because it's very low)
- average relative humidity: 73
- mean sunshine hours: 1,674.8
- percent possible sunshine: 35%

So why does London have a reputation for being dull and wet, but Paris doesn't? London is raining for just half a day more, but is slightly less humid, sees slightly less precipitation and slightly more sun.

Oh, and for completeness:

Seattle
- average precipitation: 999mm (39.34in)
- average precipitation days: 156.2 (of which 4.7 are snowy)
- average relative humidity: 73.3
- mean sunshine hours: 2169.7
- percent possible sunshine: 49%

NYC
- average precipitation: 1258mm (49.52in)
- average precipitation days: 125.4 (of which 11.4 are snowy)
- average relative humidity: 63
- mean sunshine hours: 2534.7
- percent possible sunshine: 57%

Atlanta
- average precipitation: 1281mm (50.43in)
- average precipitation days: 116.3 (of which 1.5 are snowy)
- average relative humidity: 68.3
- mean sunshine hours: 2738.3
- percent possible sunshine: 62%

Lincoln
- average precipitation: 745mm (29.34in)
- average precipitation days: 95.3 (of which 17.9 are snowy)
- average relative humidity: 68.6
- mean sunshine hours: 2761.7
- percent possible sunshine: 52%

Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2022, 07:36:35 AMLondon fog os more comparable to the constant Seattle drizzle?
London drizzle is comparable with Seattle drizzle. The fog is something else.

Yeah, that percent possible sunshine is what I was talking about.

Comparison to Paris is good, because London and Paris are closer together than most Americans perceive.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: english si on April 24, 2022, 11:47:13 AM
Quote from: formulanone on April 24, 2022, 10:45:09 AMAlmost certainly, it's because we hear and read more about London than Paris.
Maybe, but I'm not so sure. Both are huge cultural powerhouses, and while there's the Anglophonic focus on London, Paris still looms very large in the culture.

Possibly there's the France=good weather, UK=bad weather idea, with Paris being at the bad end of French weather, with London at the good end of it. That might play into it.
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2022, 10:46:27 AMComparison to Paris is good, because London and Paris are closer together than most Americans perceive.
I knew they were pretty close stats-wise, which is contra-conventional wisdom even in those cities, but I hadn't realised they were that close until I grabbed the stats for that post.

It's about 200 miles between the two cities - that's not particularly close this side of the Atlantic, but isn't too far the other side. We're looking at NYC - DC distances (and the climate is somewhat different in those two cities).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 24, 2022, 11:48:11 AM
Quote from: english si on April 24, 2022, 11:47:13 AM
Quote from: formulanone on April 24, 2022, 10:45:09 AMAlmost certainly, it's because we hear and read more about London than Paris.
Maybe, but I'm not so sure. Both are huge cultural powerhouses, and while there's the Anglophonic focus on London, Paris still looms very large in the culture.

Possibly there's the France=good weather, UK=bad weather idea, with Paris being at the bad end of French weather, with London at the good end of it. That might play into it.
Quote from: Rothman on April 24, 2022, 10:46:27 AMComparison to Paris is good, because London and Paris are closer together than most Americans perceive.
I knew they were pretty close stats-wise, which is contra-conventional wisdom even in those cities, but I hadn't realised they were that close until I grabbed the stats for that post.

It's about 200 miles between the two cities - that's not particularly close this side of the Atlantic, but isn't too far the other side. We're looking at NYC - DC distances (and the climate is somewhat different in those two cities).
Yeah, but the latitudes are further north than NYC/DC.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on April 26, 2022, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 22, 2022, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 22, 2022, 05:44:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2022, 09:48:38 AM
I'd venture that Denver and SLC might not feel so far apart if they weren't 370 miles apart as the crow flies and over 500 miles apart by road.

I have often likened Denver and SLC as "mirror images" of each other in several ways:

The bulk of each metropolitan area and nearby sizeable urban areas runs North/South along a single Interstate corridor and what little urban areas that run East/West  from the downtown areas are found along a single beltway route that runs about ¾ths of the way around town.

Both cities are at the foot of sizeable mountains on one side and no-mans land on the other, hence the majority of travel is usually north-south.  And as soon as you hit those areas, local traffic decreases very quickly, leaving just weekend getaway traffic and longer-distance travel.  Pass the airports on either interstate and it's like flipping a switch.

Each of the two cities are pretty much the only sizeable cities for 6+ hours/hundreds of miles in any direction by car.

Both towns can have very localized weather climates, compared to the rest of the region. 

I'm sure there are several other factoids that are shared by both cities, but those are the ones I'll start with.

And yes, I live in the Grand Junction area, thank you very much!
Not sure how they're a mirror of each other.  Physical geopgraphical similarities aside, both cities' composition and cultures are quite different.

Not really. You're conflating state-level politics and religion distributions. Salt Lake City proper and really the northern half of Salt Lake County is very Denver metro-like on a slightly smaller scale - and this has been a change in progress ever since the Olympics.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MATraveler128 on April 26, 2022, 02:41:10 PM
It takes longer to drive from Mt. Washington, the westernmost part of Massachusetts to Provincetown at the tip of the Cape. (If there’s no traffic) than to drive to New York City from Boston.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2022, 04:40:31 PM
Quote from: US 89 on April 26, 2022, 02:31:05 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 22, 2022, 05:49:04 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 22, 2022, 05:44:39 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 22, 2022, 09:48:38 AM
I'd venture that Denver and SLC might not feel so far apart if they weren't 370 miles apart as the crow flies and over 500 miles apart by road.

I have often likened Denver and SLC as "mirror images" of each other in several ways:

The bulk of each metropolitan area and nearby sizeable urban areas runs North/South along a single Interstate corridor and what little urban areas that run East/West  from the downtown areas are found along a single beltway route that runs about ¾ths of the way around town.

Both cities are at the foot of sizeable mountains on one side and no-mans land on the other, hence the majority of travel is usually north-south.  And as soon as you hit those areas, local traffic decreases very quickly, leaving just weekend getaway traffic and longer-distance travel.  Pass the airports on either interstate and it's like flipping a switch.

Each of the two cities are pretty much the only sizeable cities for 6+ hours/hundreds of miles in any direction by car.

Both towns can have very localized weather climates, compared to the rest of the region. 

I'm sure there are several other factoids that are shared by both cities, but those are the ones I'll start with.

And yes, I live in the Grand Junction area, thank you very much!
Not sure how they're a mirror of each other.  Physical geopgraphical similarities aside, both cities' composition and cultures are quite different.

Not really. You're conflating state-level politics and religion distributions. Salt Lake City proper and really the northern half of Salt Lake County is very Denver metro-like on a slightly smaller scale - and this has been a change in progress ever since the Olympics.
Nah.  Utahns may like to think so, but no.  As long as Temple Square and the LDS-owned businesses dominate SLC downtown, SLC and Denver will always be distinctively different. 

Reminds me of when my wife and I went to a comedy theater not so long ago in downtown SLC.  The "dry bar" comedy would have been out of place in Denver.

Utahns need to give up this "But we're really cool, too" wannabe nonsense and just embrace their peculiarity.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2022, 04:45:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2022, 04:40:31 PM
Reminds me of when my wife and I went to a comedy theater not so long ago in downtown SLC.  The "dry bar" comedy would have been out of place in Denver.

That comedy theater has soaked up so much of my time on YouTube...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 26, 2022, 04:49:44 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2022, 04:45:53 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2022, 04:40:31 PM
Reminds me of when my wife and I went to a comedy theater not so long ago in downtown SLC.  The "dry bar" comedy would have been out of place in Denver.

That comedy theater has soaked up so much of my time on YouTube...
I take it you're also into Studio C...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 26, 2022, 04:54:46 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2022, 04:49:44 PM

Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2022, 04:45:53 PM

Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2022, 04:40:31 PM
Reminds me of when my wife and I went to a comedy theater not so long ago in downtown SLC.  The "dry bar" comedy would have been out of place in Denver.

That comedy theater has soaked up so much of my time on YouTube...

I take it you're also into Studio C...

I should clarify:  it used to soak up so much of my time.  Then I divorced my smartphone.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on April 26, 2022, 08:18:06 PM
Speaking of SLC...

There are only 5-7 locations on Earth where Lake Effect Precipitation occurs, 2 of which in North America:

The Salt Lake City area and the Great Lakes Region.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on April 27, 2022, 12:08:24 AM
Quote from: Rothman on April 26, 2022, 04:40:31 PM
Utahns may like to think so, but no.  As long as Temple Square and the LDS-owned businesses dominate SLC downtown, SLC and Denver will always be distinctively different. 

When's the last time you actually went to downtown SLC? The only times LDS anything has dominated downtown for the past several years is their conference weekends and maybe December nights with the Temple Square Christmas lights. But that's it. City Creek doesn't count as there is nothing Mormon about it other than where the money it makes ultimately goes. There's a restaurant and nightlife/bar scene downtown that wasn't really there as recently as 5-10 years ago. Is it as big or as diverse as you'd find in Denver? Of course not - but nobody is trying to claim that.

In my experience of growing up in the Salt Lake City metro area and more recently returning there several times a year to visit my parents and family, if you're one of the ~70% of Salt Lake City residents who aren't Mormon, you generally want to make a point of how un-Mormon you are.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on April 27, 2022, 12:23:27 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 26, 2022, 08:18:06 PM
Speaking of SLC...

There are only 5-7 locations on Earth where Lake Effect Precipitation occurs, 2 of which in North America:

The Salt Lake City area and the Great Lakes Region.

I'll never forget the time my cousin's traveling soccer team had a game in Salt Lake one November weekend where the lake-effect hose turned on and just wouldn't stop. We tried to shovel the field but the snow was coming down faster than we could clear it...and then after a few hours they gave up and only shoveled the lines (and even then that was a futile effort). In the end we had around 2 feet at my house in a 48-hour period. There's been some big storms since then but I don't think that much snow has fallen from a single storm there since.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 27, 2022, 06:58:54 AM
Quote from: US 89 on April 27, 2022, 12:08:24 AM
When's the last time you actually went to downtown SLC?

Just a few months ago.  My father's family moved to Utah when he was a teenager, his family's still in the area, my wife's from a large family fron Sandy...

Your other points actually lead to SLC being much more wacky than Denver, with non-Mormons desperately trying to turn Utah normal and Mormons just being themselves.  All that effects the feel of the city (and state, for that matter). Salt Lake County's still half Mormon...

Denver has none of that dynamic and it physically shows.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on April 27, 2022, 09:28:49 AM
To the original point of SLC and Denver being a mirror of each other...
I thought this was much more of a point about geography than it was a point about culture.

They are quite literally mirrored in that sense, since the Rockies are east from SLC and west from Denver, and as noted, both metro areas are oriented N/S on I-15 and I-25 respectively.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on April 27, 2022, 05:38:08 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 27, 2022, 09:28:49 AM
To the original point of SLC and Denver being a mirror of each other...
I thought this was much more of a point about geography than it was a point about culture.

They are quite literally mirrored in that sense, since the Rockies are east from SLC and west from Denver, and as noted, both metro areas are oriented N/S on I-15 and I-25 respectively.
Given the discussion, this geographic similarity was obviously not the only consideration.

I find more in common between Columbus, OH and Indianapolis, IN than between Denver and SLC.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: skluth on April 27, 2022, 05:51:01 PM
The Coachella Festival just ended. I wonder how many attendees realize that the Coachella site is (barely) below sea level.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on May 09, 2022, 10:45:24 AM
The Newell Toll Bridge goes east from West Virginia to cross into Ohio.  (Cross-posted from the Newell Toll Bridge thread).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on May 09, 2022, 11:15:33 AM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on May 09, 2022, 10:45:24 AM
The Newell Toll Bridge goes east from West Virginia to cross into Ohio.  (Cross-posted from the Newell Toll Bridge thread).

More like northeast.

https://goo.gl/maps/bcT3wwJhGKjgpanx8
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on May 11, 2022, 10:47:24 PM
Speaking of WV ...

The northern tip of the state (40' 38'' 19.60) basically bisects NYC in terms of latitude. It's also farther north than a ton of capitals of Union states existent during the Civil War, including Indianapolis, Springfield, Harrisburg, Columbus, Trenton, Annapolis, Dover and Jefferson City.

That explains a lot why WV sided with the Union in 1863 – but doesn't explain other things today.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on May 11, 2022, 11:44:03 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on May 11, 2022, 10:47:24 PM
Speaking of WV ...

The northern tip of the state (40' 38'' 19.60) basically bisects NYC in terms of latitude. It's also farther north than a ton of capitals of Union states existent during the Civil War, including Indianapolis, Springfield, Harrisburg, Columbus, Trenton, Annapolis, Dover and Jefferson City.

That explains a lot why WV sided with the Union in 1863 – but doesn't explain other things today.
I don't think the northern spike has much to do with why WV split from VA.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on May 12, 2022, 09:06:31 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 11, 2022, 11:44:03 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on May 11, 2022, 10:47:24 PM

That explains a lot why WV sided with the Union in 1863 – but doesn't explain other things today.
I don't think the northern spike has much to do with why WV split from VA.

The "northern spike"  which most people today call the "northern panhandle"  is the one and only cause of the creation of WV. 

The vast majority of persons what became the rest of WV were not asked their opinion on the matter and were not allowed to vote in the election held on the matter.  The only real call for separation from Virginia was from the Wheeling area, which had a culture that was, and remains, totally different from the rest of what became the two states. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on May 12, 2022, 09:30:42 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 12, 2022, 09:06:31 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 11, 2022, 11:44:03 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on May 11, 2022, 10:47:24 PM

That explains a lot why WV sided with the Union in 1863 – but doesn't explain other things today.
I don't think the northern spike has much to do with why WV split from VA.

The "northern spike"  which most people today call the "northern panhandle"  is the one and only cause of the creation of WV. 

The vast majority of persons what became the rest of WV were not asked their opinion on the matter and were not allowed to vote in the election held on the matter.  The only real call for separation from Virginia was from the Wheeling area, which had a culture that was, and remains, totally different from the rest of what became the two states.
You still sound bitter over this. :D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on May 12, 2022, 10:13:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 12, 2022, 09:30:42 AM

You still sound bitter over this.

Thank you.  I try.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on May 12, 2022, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 12, 2022, 10:13:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 12, 2022, 09:30:42 AM

You still sound bitter over this.

Thank you.  I try.
Looked a little more into this.  Very interesting how things shook out in the actual vote to create WV, especially considering how some pro-Confederate eligible voters shot themselves in the foot by abstaining from the vote on statehood.  But, in the end, only about 2,000 of the 18,000 votes to create WV came from the Northern Panhandle.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:October_24,_1861_county_vote_for_West_Virginia_statehood.jpg#mw-jump-to-license
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on May 12, 2022, 12:51:08 PM
Quote from: Rothman on May 12, 2022, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 12, 2022, 10:13:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 12, 2022, 09:30:42 AM

You still sound bitter over this.

Thank you.  I try.
Looked a little more into this.  Very interesting how things shook out in the actual vote to create WV, especially considering how some pro-Confederate eligible voters shot themselves in the foot by abstaining from the vote on statehood.  But, in the end, only about 2,000 of the 18,000 votes to create WV came from the Northern Panhandle.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:October_24,_1861_county_vote_for_West_Virginia_statehood.jpg#mw-jump-to-license
I have never understood how anyone ever thought they could accomplish anything by boycotting an election.  Clearly they were never taught "if you don't vote, don't complain".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on May 12, 2022, 12:55:34 PM
How did that vote even pass? It was way below 50%.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on May 12, 2022, 12:58:45 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 12, 2022, 10:13:47 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 12, 2022, 09:30:42 AM

You still sound bitter over this.

Thank you.  I try.

That section of West Virginia north of the Mason-Dixon line has more in common with NE Ohio or western Pennsylvania than it does with the rest of West Virginia.

Tieing into the sports market thread, I was traveling in the area and drove through a McDonald's near Toronto, Ohio, which is right across the river from West Virginia. The plastic "keeper" cup I got my drink in had Steelers stuff on it, not Browns stuff.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: elsmere241 on May 12, 2022, 01:05:28 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 12, 2022, 12:58:45 PM

That section of West Virginia north of the Mason-Dixon line has more in common with NE Ohio or western Pennsylvania than it does with the rest of West Virginia.


It's a relic of Virginia and Pennsylvania agreeing on a boundary, and then Virginia later giving up everything north of the Ohio.

Interestingly, an idea was kicked around in the 1770s to separate that area from Virginia and form a province (as colonies were called by then) called Vandalia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Evan_Th on May 12, 2022, 01:27:15 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 12, 2022, 12:55:34 PM
How did that vote even pass? It was way below 50%.

I'm guessing the "total number of voters" on that diagram is the total number of registered voters, not the total number of people who actually voted in the referendum.

Also, keep in mind this's the vote on whether to make West Virginia a separate state.  The referendum was being held by the "Restored Government of Virginia," which was already sitting in Wheeling as a pro-Union government claiming jurisdiction over the whole state of Virginia, under the theory that the Richmond government had implicitly abdicated their authority by voting for secession.  So, it was possible for a Unionist to vote against the referendum.  (Though it was unlikely; separate statehood for western Virginia was a longstanding popular cause.)

Once West Virginia did separate, the Restored Government of Virginia moved first to Union-occupied Alexandria, and then eventually to Richmond at the end of the war.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on May 12, 2022, 01:46:08 PM
This is correct.  Understand that all of the western parts of all of the original states are based on "grants"  written by English kings who (leaving out the fact that the land wasn't theirs to grant) had little clue as to the geography.  As the area settled, PA advocated for the M-D line to be extended all the way to the Ohio, VA advocated for the Monongalia and Ohio rivers to be the border, which would have included all of what is now south western PA in VA.  A few locals wanted to be their own state which they called "Westsylvania"  but that is a common theme in that era and nobody took that seriously. 

Eventually they compromised and PA got all of what became Pittsburgh, but VA got all the frontage on the Ohio and what became Wheeling, which was the original end of the National Road and thus a bigger prize under the technology of the day.  WV school children are taught that the surveyors were told to extend the M-D line to the Ohio but ran into some Indians and thus turned 90 degrees and went north till they found the Ohio, but this is a fable.

Later as the Civil War ramped up, a bunch of self-appointed people, about 2/3rd of them from Wheeling and environs decided they were really the government of VA and from that all this happened.

As to the vote, really no one "boycotted"  it.  There were three camps.  Those for it lived where they are seen on the map above voted as they did.  Those with very small returns were under Union occupation and thus the majority was not allowed to vote.  Those with no returns at all were still recognizing the actual government in Richmond and thus held no election because there was none to hold. 

These people were disenfranchised until WV wrote a new constitution in 1872 which prohibits political tests.

Presidential politics also played into this.  Lincoln had every chance of losing in 1864.  Among the things they thus did was rush Nevada and its 3 electoral votes to statehood decades before it was ready.  And make WV a state.  Lincoln's advisors were sure they could win WV as drawn and by prohibiting voting in most of the state due to the political test, but were afraid they would lose Virginia, which had a then whopping 15 electoral votes, if they allowed the other places under their control to vote as well.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on May 12, 2022, 04:23:51 PM


Quote from: SP Cook on May 12, 2022, 01:46:08 PM
As to the vote, really no one "boycotted"  it... Those with no returns at all were still recognizing the actual government in Richmond and thus held no election because there was none to hold. 


Heh.  The actual Confederate government? :D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on May 12, 2022, 04:54:18 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 12, 2022, 01:46:08 PM
This is correct.  Understand that all of the western parts of all of the original states are based on "grants"  written by English kings who (leaving out the fact that the land wasn't theirs to grant) had little clue as to the geography.  As the area settled, PA advocated for the M-D line to be extended all the way to the Ohio, VA advocated for the Monongalia and Ohio rivers to be the border, which would have included all of what is now south western PA in VA.  A few locals wanted to be their own state which they called "Westsylvania"  but that is a common theme in that era and nobody took that seriously. 

One entire side of my dad's ancestry hails from "Greene County, Pennsylvania" prior to the Revolutionary War.  In reality, these were all considered citizens of Virginia living in [extinct] Yohogania County.  I haven't checked all of the details, but it appears that they all got run out of Yohogania during Dunmore's War and lost their homesteads to Pennsylvania after the Second Continental Congress brokered a treaty between Gov. Joseph Reed of Pennsylvania and newly-elected Gov. Thomas Jefferson of Virginia.  The families split and settled in Wood County, (later) West Virginia and the part of Virginia now known as Ohio.

Fun fact:  Virginia didn't lose all of Yohogania County in the deal.  The remaining piece is now comprised of part of Brooke County and all of Hancock County, (now) West Virginia.  Amazingly, although those folks in the Northern Panhandle may be more like their counterparts in Western Pennsylvania, they have as staunch of a West Virginia identity as anyone else in the state.  This is likely because of the historical importance of Wheeling to the overall identity of those beleaguered western counties.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: J N Winkler on May 21, 2022, 11:30:52 PM
Johnson County, Kansas (county code JO) surfaced recently in the License Plate News thread, which reminded me of this unusual fact:  the 12 states (AR, GA, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, MO, NE, TN, TX, and WY) with a Johnson County form a contiguous block running northwest from Georgia to Wyoming, with the one in Kansas being the most populous.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on May 22, 2022, 12:04:34 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 21, 2022, 11:30:52 PM
Johnson County, Kansas (county code JO) surfaced recently in the License Plate News thread, which reminded me of this unusual fact:  the 12 states (AR, GA, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, MO, NE, TN, TX, and WY) with a Johnson County form a contiguous block running northwest from Georgia to Wyoming, with the one in Kansas being the most populous.

Oklahoma can be included in this block if you stretch it a little to include Johnston County (which also has county code JO).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 22, 2022, 08:14:48 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 21, 2022, 11:30:52 PM
Johnson County, Kansas (county code JO) surfaced recently in the License Plate News thread, which reminded me of this unusual fact:  the 12 states (AR, GA, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, MO, NE, TN, TX, and WY) with a Johnson County form a contiguous block running northwest from Georgia to Wyoming, with the one in Kansas being the most populous.

Hmm, now I wonder if there are any other comparable blocks?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tdindy88 on May 22, 2022, 08:23:01 AM
You can go coast to coast from Oregon to Florida and from Minnesota to Texas on Washington Counties. Since there's 31 states with one of that name.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: J N Winkler on May 22, 2022, 12:56:49 PM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2022, 08:14:48 AMHmm, now I wonder if there are any other comparable blocks?

Quote from: tdindy88 on May 22, 2022, 08:23:01 AMYou can go coast to coast from Oregon to Florida and from Minnesota to Texas on Washington Counties. Since there's 31 states with one of that name.

Wikipedia has an article with a list of the most common US county names (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_common_U.S._county_names).  Besides Washington (number one with 31 counties), there is probably at least one large block for each of Jefferson (26), Franklin (25), Jackson (24), Lincoln (24, including ones in the South named after Benjamin Lincoln, a Revolutionary War general), Madison (20), Clay (18), and so on.  Johnson is actually pretty far down the list and covers multiple namesakes.  I'm not sure how unusual it is in that there is just the one contiguous block that includes all of the counties with that name.

The county I live in is actually the basis for such a block--the only other Sedgwick County (which we occasionally hear of in TV weather trailers when a storm system overlaps the state line) includes the northeast corner of Colorado and has Julesburg as its seat.  I think the likelihood goes up for names that are regionally specific, like Lowndes (AL, GA, MS, and no other states).

Edit:  It seems there are three blocks for Washington:  (1) one covering most of the lower 48 from Vermont and Georgia westward to Oregon, (2) Maine, and (3) Rhode Island.  (Blame New Hampshire, Connecticut, and Massachusetts.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on May 22, 2022, 02:20:16 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 21, 2022, 11:30:52 PM
Johnson County, Kansas (county code JO) surfaced recently in the License Plate News thread, which reminded me of this unusual fact:  the 12 states (AR, GA, IL, IN, IA, KS, KY, MO, NE, TN, TX, and WY) with a Johnson County form a contiguous block running northwest from Georgia to Wyoming, with the one in Kansas being the most populous.

Quote from: Scott5114 on May 22, 2022, 12:04:34 AM
Oklahoma can be included in this block if you stretch it a little to include Johnston County (which also has county code JO).

Add North Carolina to the Johnston County list.  But it's county code is "051".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on May 22, 2022, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 22, 2022, 12:56:49 PM
Wikipedia has an article with a list of the most common US county names (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_common_U.S._county_names). 

Needless to say, Virginia and West Virginia do not have any counties with overlapping names.  But we do collectively share all of the top 17 county names on the list:

Virginia:  Washington (#1), Franklin (#3), Madison (#6), Montgomery (#8), Marion (#10T), Greene (#12T), Warren (#15), Carroll (#16), Lee (#17T)
West Virginia:  Jefferson (#2), Jackson (#4), Lincoln (#5), Clay (#7), Union (#9), Monroe (#10T), Wayne (#12T), Grant (#14), Marshall (#17T)

That trend hits a stopper at #17 where neither state has Adams, Clark, Douglas, Johnson, Lake or Polk.  But Virginia used to have a Clark County (named after George Rogers Clark), which has since been renamed Clarke County.  I used to live there back in my MTR days.  (Thinking Johnson/Johnston upthread, this might still count in the list).

Anywhoosit, you will either have a hole for Virginia or West Virginia in your county name block of states no matter which one you pick.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 11:36:12 AM
This isn't really geographic, but I thought I would put it here.

Kiribati is pronounced KEE-ree-BOSS.

Gilbertese (the language of Kiribati) uses 'ti' to make S sounds. So for instance, Christmas Island in the local dialect is Kiritimati.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on May 26, 2022, 12:13:27 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.

Nor is Puerto Rico.  Weird.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on May 26, 2022, 12:48:04 PM
I would have to imagine that any attack on Hawaii or Puerto Rico would probably end up with the United States strongarming the rest of NATO into responding pretty much the same way as if they had attacked New York.

After all, witness how we reacted the last time Hawaii was attacked. And it wasn't even a state then.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 26, 2022, 12:50:24 PM
Here's one I meant to bring up, pending completion of my recent "guess the city" challenge.

Two African capitals are Freetown and Libreville, which are literally the same name in different languages. What other world capitals are the same or similar (either near-exactly, like Kingston/Kingstown, or indirectly, like the above example)?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on May 26, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Puerto Rico isn't a separate country, but San Juan and Saint John's, Antigua and Barbuda, mean the same thing.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 01:48:43 PM
Quote from: empirestate on May 26, 2022, 12:50:24 PM
Here's one I meant to bring up, pending completion of my recent "guess the city" challenge.

Two African capitals are Freetown and Libreville, which are literally the same name in different languages. What other world capitals are the same or similar (either near-exactly, like Kingston/Kingstown, or indirectly, like the above example)?

Georgetown, Guyana vs. George Town, Cayman Islands comes to mind.

Also Oranjestad being the capital of both Aruba and Sint Eustatius.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 26, 2022, 09:18:19 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 26, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Puerto Rico isn't a separate country, but San Juan and Saint John's, Antigua and Barbuda, mean the same thing.

If you're going that route, you can throw in the identical Saint John's, Newfoundland (itself not to be confused with Saint John, New Brunswick, which is not a capital).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 09:21:14 PM
Quote from: empirestate on May 26, 2022, 09:18:19 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on May 26, 2022, 12:53:51 PM
Puerto Rico isn't a separate country, but San Juan and Saint John's, Antigua and Barbuda, mean the same thing.

If you're going that route, you can throw in the identical Saint John's, Newfoundland (itself not to be confused with Saint John, New Brunswick, which is not a capital).

I was going to mention that, but thought we were only doing capitals. "Major cities easily confused" obviously includes those two.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on May 27, 2022, 01:17:14 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 22, 2022, 12:56:49 PM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2022, 08:14:48 AMHmm, now I wonder if there are any other comparable blocks?

Quote from: tdindy88 on May 22, 2022, 08:23:01 AMYou can go coast to coast from Oregon to Florida and from Minnesota to Texas on Washington Counties. Since there's 31 states with one of that name.

Wikipedia has an article with a list of the most common US county names (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_common_U.S._county_names).  Besides Washington (number one with 31 counties), there is probably at least one large block for each of Jefferson (26), Franklin (25), Jackson (24), Lincoln (24, including ones in the South named after Benjamin Lincoln, a Revolutionary War general), Madison (20), Clay (18), and so on.  Johnson is actually pretty far down the list and covers multiple namesakes.  I'm not sure how unusual it is in that there is just the one contiguous block that includes all of the counties with that name.

The county I live in is actually the basis for such a block--the only other Sedgwick County (which we occasionally hear of in TV weather trailers when a storm system overlaps the state line) includes the northeast corner of Colorado and has Julesburg as its seat.  I think the likelihood goes up for names that are regionally specific, like Lowndes (AL, GA, MS, and no other states).

Edit:  It seems there are three blocks for Washington:  (1) one covering most of the lower 48 from Vermont and Georgia westward to Oregon, (2) Maine, and (3) Rhode Island.  (Blame New Hampshire, Connecticut, and Massachusetts.)

Funnily enough, California not only doesn't have any counties of your top 7, it doesn't many counties named for individual people of recent times. A dozen or so Catholic saints, Another dozen or so named for nations of people. Many named for geographic features. Also, funnily enough, few, if any of the counties, are named for days of the year that aren't feast days of saints. This was a common method for naming things. First, see, if you can ask someone who lives there what they call it and try to approximate that. Second, name a feature after yourself. Then, after some of the members of your party. Finally you've named one of everything for everyone in your party, you turn to the day of the year that you discovered it. The Catholic calendar barely had more that a day or two between feast days, so you had a name that you could use until you had discovered too many things.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on May 27, 2022, 01:57:36 PM
Quote from: michravera on May 27, 2022, 01:17:14 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 22, 2022, 12:56:49 PM
Quote from: empirestate on May 22, 2022, 08:14:48 AMHmm, now I wonder if there are any other comparable blocks?

Quote from: tdindy88 on May 22, 2022, 08:23:01 AMYou can go coast to coast from Oregon to Florida and from Minnesota to Texas on Washington Counties. Since there's 31 states with one of that name.

Wikipedia has an article with a list of the most common US county names (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_most_common_U.S._county_names).  Besides Washington (number one with 31 counties), there is probably at least one large block for each of Jefferson (26), Franklin (25), Jackson (24), Lincoln (24, including ones in the South named after Benjamin Lincoln, a Revolutionary War general), Madison (20), Clay (18), and so on.  Johnson is actually pretty far down the list and covers multiple namesakes.  I'm not sure how unusual it is in that there is just the one contiguous block that includes all of the counties with that name.

The county I live in is actually the basis for such a block--the only other Sedgwick County (which we occasionally hear of in TV weather trailers when a storm system overlaps the state line) includes the northeast corner of Colorado and has Julesburg as its seat.  I think the likelihood goes up for names that are regionally specific, like Lowndes (AL, GA, MS, and no other states).

Edit:  It seems there are three blocks for Washington:  (1) one covering most of the lower 48 from Vermont and Georgia westward to Oregon, (2) Maine, and (3) Rhode Island.  (Blame New Hampshire, Connecticut, and Massachusetts.)

Funnily enough, California not only doesn't have any counties of your top 7, it doesn't many counties named for individual people of recent times. A dozen or so Catholic saints, Another dozen or so named for nations of people. Many named for geographic features. Also, funnily enough, few, if any of the counties, are named for days of the year that aren't feast days of saints. This was a common method for naming things. First, see, if you can ask someone who lives there what they call it and try to approximate that. Second, name a feature after yourself. Then, after some of the members of your party. Finally you've named one of everything for everyone in your party, you turn to the day of the year that you discovered it. The Catholic calendar barely had more that a day or two between feast days, so you had a name that you could use until you had discovered too many things.

The unique county and place names certainly are supposed I appreciate when I write about highway in California.  It makes it so much easier to quickly identify a locale when it has a easily referenced unique name.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on May 29, 2022, 03:41:39 PM
There are NO bridge crossings over the Amazon River proper anywhere in South America.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: empirestate on May 29, 2022, 06:01:22 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on May 29, 2022, 03:41:39 PM
There are NO bridge crossings over the Amazon River proper anywhere in South America.

The real oddity would be if there were one on some other continent. :-)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on May 30, 2022, 02:04:54 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on May 29, 2022, 03:41:39 PM
There are NO bridge crossings over the Amazon River proper anywhere in South America.
Yeah, the bridge at Manaus crosses the Rio Negro, but not the Amazon. My understanding is more that no road network goes close enough to it where it is narrow and where there is a road network, you wouldn't want to build a bridge because the level changes enough that you'd either have to build it too high or it would get flooded and it would be too long to do any good.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: oscar on May 30, 2022, 07:04:38 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 11:36:12 AM
This isn't really geographic, but I thought I would put it here.

Kiribati is pronounced KEE-ree-BOSS.

Gilbertese (the language of Kiribati) uses 'ti' to make S sounds. So for instance, Christmas Island in the local dialect is Kiritimati.

The Hawaiian language, and Hawaiian place names, use similar workarounds for letters missing from the Hawaiian alphabet (such as C, R, S, and T). K gets used a lot as a substitute for C or S. Vowels also get a lot of work, with five vowels in the alphabet but only seven consonants.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on June 02, 2022, 01:02:54 PM
Quote from: oscar on May 30, 2022, 07:04:38 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 26, 2022, 11:36:12 AM
This isn't really geographic, but I thought I would put it here.

Kiribati is pronounced KEE-ree-BOSS.

Gilbertese (the language of Kiribati) uses 'ti' to make S sounds. So for instance, Christmas Island in the local dialect is Kiritimati.

The Hawaiian language, and Hawaiian place names, use similar workarounds for letters missing from the Hawaiian alphabet (such as C, R, S, and T). K gets used a lot as a substitute for C or S. Vowels also get a lot of work, with five vowels in the alphabet but only seven consonants.

I've often joked that perhaps, the Hawaiians could sell some of their extra vowels to Poland and the Poles could sell some of their extra consonants to Hawaii.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on June 03, 2022, 12:48:37 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.

The mutual defense part of the NATO treaty is only mandatory for member countries' territories within North America and Europe.  So not only Hawaii, but the British territory of the Falkland Islands are not covered, territories in West Africa that were ruled by France at the time the NATO treaty was negotiated, even Spain's little inholding of Cueta in Africa is not covered.

Doesn't mean the other NATO countries necessarily ignore it if such territories were invaded, but they would have an out of they wanted one.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on June 03, 2022, 05:05:51 PM
Quote from: kkt on June 03, 2022, 12:48:37 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.

The mutual defense part of the NATO treaty is only mandatory for member countries' territories within North America and Europe.  So not only Hawaii, but the British territory of the Falkland Islands are not covered, territories in West Africa that were ruled by France at the time the NATO treaty was negotiated, even Spain's little inholding of Cueta in Africa is not covered.

Doesn't mean the other NATO countries necessarily ignore it if such territories were invaded, but they would have an out of they wanted one.


Yeah, like I said upthread, if Putin decided he wanted to nuke Honolulu, I doubt anyone would object to the US invoking Article 5.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on June 03, 2022, 05:09:16 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 03, 2022, 05:05:51 PM
Yeah, like I said upthread, if Putin decided he wanted to nuke Honolulu, I doubt anyone would object to the US invoking Article 5.

Except Putin, perhaps.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on June 06, 2022, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.
Neither is Mississippi. Damn.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 06, 2022, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.
Neither is Mississippi. Damn.

How do you figure? The reason Hawaii isn't technically part of NATO, so far as I can tell, is because it's south of the Tropic of Cancer.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on June 06, 2022, 10:47:02 PM
I had to tick down the president's list and Arkansas has every early president between Washington and Van Buren as a county namesake – except Adams (both of them), funny enough.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kirbykart on September 24, 2022, 04:03:57 PM
It is possible to travel due south from Arkansas into all six of the states it borders.
In Northern Maine it is possible to travel due south on US 1 North.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on September 24, 2022, 06:04:00 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 06, 2022, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.
Neither is Mississippi. Damn.

How do you figure? The reason Hawaii isn't technically part of NATO, so far as I can tell, is because it's south of the Tropic of Cancer.
Hawaii is one of the 50 United States, which is decidedly a member of NATO. Let's let Putin take a free whack at it and find out.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on September 24, 2022, 06:31:50 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on September 24, 2022, 06:04:00 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 06, 2022, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.
Neither is Mississippi. Damn.

How do you figure? The reason Hawaii isn't technically part of NATO, so far as I can tell, is because it's south of the Tropic of Cancer.
Hawaii is one of the 50 United States, which is decidedly a member of NATO. Let's let Putin take a free whack at it and find out.

Yes, but Article 6 of the North Atlantic Treaty states that NATO's "area of responsibility" only goes as far south as the Tropic of Cancer. This is because 1) the United States did not want to guarantee protection to the European powers' remaining colonies in Africa and 2) Hawaii wasn't a state yet when the North Atlantic Treaty was signed, so the US did not have any more reason to include Hawaii than it did any of its territories in the South Pacific.

As I said before, in practice, I don't think it would make much of a difference. I would imagine that if Hawaii were to be attacked, much of NATO would respond exactly the same as they would to an attack on any other US state. It's just that the other members of NATO would not be compelled to respond in the way they would be if Article 5 of the treaty were invoked. It would be a "NATO without NATO" sort of response, like the US-led coalition that conducted the Iraq War.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on September 25, 2022, 09:22:29 PM
I knew this day would be coming.  Raleigh (mostly in Wake County) now extends west into Durham County.  Durham (mostly Durham County, duh) has crossed over west into Orange County for some time, and now extends east into Wake County.  Cary (mostly in Wake County) now extends southwest into Chatham County.  And Chapel Hill (mostly in Orange County), also extends east into Durham County and now extends south into Chatham County, as well.

Looking into the future... 
Mebane (mostly in Alamance County) is expanding so quickly eastward into Orange County that it would not surprise me that someday it will have more residents east of the line than in its home county.  Mebane's extrajurisdictional authority now extends almost to the Efland exit.  Traditionally, Triangle employees were moving west away from the higher taxes into Alamance County.  More recently, some of the Triad's employees are moving east into Orange County for the school system.  Nowadays, employees coming to the Triangle are moving anywhere within a 90-minute drive wherever they can find a house or land.  Ouch.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on September 26, 2022, 02:31:53 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on September 24, 2022, 06:04:00 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 06, 2022, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.
Neither is Mississippi. Damn.

How do you figure? The reason Hawaii isn't technically part of NATO, so far as I can tell, is because it's south of the Tropic of Cancer.
Hawaii is one of the 50 United States, which is decidedly a member of NATO. Let's let Putin take a free whack at it and find out.

By similar logic, neither is French Guiana. By the way, France's longest frontier is with ....






wait for it ...










Brazil!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on September 26, 2022, 03:51:17 PM
I found out that due how article 5 of NATO is worded neither Ceuta nor Melilla aren't part of it, but the Canary Islands are. Weird.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on September 26, 2022, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on September 24, 2022, 06:04:00 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 06, 2022, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.
Neither is Mississippi. Damn.

How do you figure? The reason Hawaii isn't technically part of NATO, so far as I can tell, is because it's south of the Tropic of Cancer.
Hawaii is one of the 50 United States, which is decidedly a member of NATO. Let's let Putin take a free whack at it and find out.

Doesn't matter.  The United States is perfectly capable of defending Hawaii without requiring a response from other NATO countries.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on September 26, 2022, 04:21:25 PM
Quote from: kkt on September 26, 2022, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on September 24, 2022, 06:04:00 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 06, 2022, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.
Neither is Mississippi. Damn.

How do you figure? The reason Hawaii isn't technically part of NATO, so far as I can tell, is because it's south of the Tropic of Cancer.
Hawaii is one of the 50 United States, which is decidedly a member of NATO. Let's let Putin take a free whack at it and find out.

Doesn't matter.  The United States is perfectly capable of defending Hawaii without requiring a response from other NATO countries.
USA!  USA!

Somebody's seen Iron Eagle II a few too many times.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: skluth on September 26, 2022, 04:32:49 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on September 26, 2022, 03:51:17 PM
I found out that due how article 5 of NATO is worded neither Ceuta nor Melilla aren't part of it, but the Canary Islands are. Weird.

I would guess by this logic, neither is Gitmo
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on October 18, 2022, 11:45:22 PM
Looking it up on a map, here's a geographical oddity: A sliver of Kazakhstan north of the Caspian lies west of the Ural Mountains, putting it technically in Europe!

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81S6qjXfi4L._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 19, 2022, 12:13:07 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on October 18, 2022, 11:45:22 PM
Looking it up on a map, here's a geographical oddity: A sliver of Kazakhstan north of the Caspian lies west of the Ural Mountains, putting it technically in Europe!

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81S6qjXfi4L._AC_SL1500_.jpg)

UEFA agrees.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 19, 2022, 03:14:00 AM
Also, I wonder since when Armenia, and all of Georgia (former Soviet republic) and Azerbaijan are in Europe. I believe the boundary runs along the Rioni and Kura rivers, putting all of Armenia and parts of Georgia and Azerbaijan in Asia (and also making Atlanta Tbilisi transcontinental like Istanbul).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on October 19, 2022, 07:59:22 AM
In Mercator projection, Nevada has a perfect 2:3 aspect ratio.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 08:19:53 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

Geologically, it's clearly a single continent, but the ship has long sailed on considering as such.

The Ural Mountains make a clear boundary, but they don't run all the way down to the Caspian Sea and there's no real natural boundary in that area. I always thought the highest points of the Caucasus Mountains formed the boundary between the Caspian and Black Seas, but that's clearly not what is shown on the map.

For simplicity's sake, it would be easiest to just have Russia's borders with Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Georgia serve as the dividing line from the southern point of the Urals.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MATraveler128 on October 19, 2022, 08:45:14 AM
As the crow flies, the westernmost point of New York is closer to Downtown Chicago at 403 miles than it is to Montauk Point at the eastern tip of Long Island at 413 miles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 19, 2022, 11:54:26 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.

Those two opinions somewhat seem in opposition.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.

The Olympic flag also thinks of the Americas as a single continent. Thus only five rings instead of six.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 12:12:26 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.

The Olympic flag also thinks of the Americas as a single continent. Thus only five rings instead of six.

They need to stop as well. :-D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: elsmere241 on October 19, 2022, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.

The Olympic flag also thinks of the Americas as a single continent. Thus only five rings instead of six.

That's because they separated Oceania from Asia, and didn't want to add a sixth ring to the flag.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on October 19, 2022, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.

The Olympic flag also thinks of the Americas as a single continent. Thus only five rings instead of six.

That's because they separated Oceania from Asia, and didn't want to add a sixth ring to the flag.

I don't think that's the case. The rings represent Asia, Africa, Europe, Australia, and the Americas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: elsmere241 on October 19, 2022, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on October 19, 2022, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.

The Olympic flag also thinks of the Americas as a single continent. Thus only five rings instead of six.

That's because they separated Oceania from Asia, and didn't want to add a sixth ring to the flag.

I don't think that's the case. The rings represent Asia, Africa, Europe, Australia, and the Americas.

We did a mock Olympics in school (complete with a mock IOC) in 1984, and at that time Australia and the rest of Oceania was considered part of Asia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 19, 2022, 04:53:46 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on October 19, 2022, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on October 19, 2022, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.

The Olympic flag also thinks of the Americas as a single continent. Thus only five rings instead of six.

That's because they separated Oceania from Asia, and didn't want to add a sixth ring to the flag.

I don't think that's the case. The rings represent Asia, Africa, Europe, Australia, and the Americas.

We did a mock Olympics in school (complete with a mock IOC) in 1984, and at that time Australia and the rest of Oceania was considered part of Asia.

Apropos of nothing at all, but Australia competes with Asia for World Cup qualification.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on October 19, 2022, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 19, 2022, 04:53:46 PM
Apropos of nothing at all, but Australia competes with Asia for World Cup qualification.

They didn't used to - but when they competed against those little island nations, they racked up scores like 31-0.

For that matter, and again apropos of nothing, Israel competes in Europe.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on October 19, 2022, 06:21:28 PM
Quote from: GaryV on October 19, 2022, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 19, 2022, 04:53:46 PM
Apropos of nothing at all, but Australia competes with Asia for World Cup qualification.

They didn't used to - but when they competed against those little island nations, they racked up scores like 31-0.

For that matter, and again apropos of nothing, Israel competes in Europe.

For a brief period of time, Israel also played in the Oceania qualifiers because they had been expelled from Asia and didn't have full membership in UEFA (Europe). They even won the Oceania qualifiers for the 1990 World Cup but fell to Colombia in the inter-continental playoffs.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 07:36:51 PM
Quote from: Bruce on October 19, 2022, 06:21:28 PM
Quote from: GaryV on October 19, 2022, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 19, 2022, 04:53:46 PM
Apropos of nothing at all, but Australia competes with Asia for World Cup qualification.

They didn't used to - but when they competed against those little island nations, they racked up scores like 31-0.

For that matter, and again apropos of nothing, Israel competes in Europe.

For a brief period of time, Israel also played in the Oceania qualifiers because they had been expelled from Asia and didn't have full membership in UEFA (Europe). They even won the Oceania qualifiers for the 1990 World Cup but fell to Colombia in the inter-continental playoffs.

Sometimes I wonder if we might end up with the US and Mexico in CONMEBOL.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on October 19, 2022, 07:47:55 PM
Quote from: Rothman on September 26, 2022, 04:21:25 PM
Quote from: kkt on September 26, 2022, 04:09:45 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on September 24, 2022, 06:04:00 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 06, 2022, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on June 06, 2022, 09:54:43 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on May 26, 2022, 12:04:33 PM
I recently learned that Hawaii is not part of NATO.
Neither is Mississippi. Damn.

How do you figure? The reason Hawaii isn't technically part of NATO, so far as I can tell, is because it's south of the Tropic of Cancer.
Hawaii is one of the 50 United States, which is decidedly a member of NATO. Let's let Putin take a free whack at it and find out.

Doesn't matter.  The United States is perfectly capable of defending Hawaii without requiring a response from other NATO countries.
USA!  USA!

Somebody's seen Iron Eagle II a few too many times.

I suppose someone probably has, but not me.  I have never seen it. 

Do you seriously think any country could attack Hawaii without a devastating counterattack?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: J N Winkler on October 19, 2022, 08:56:34 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 19, 2022, 07:47:55 PMDo you seriously think any country could attack Hawaii without a devastating counterattack?

It's certainly true that the last country that tried it had atomic bombs dropped on it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thspfc on October 19, 2022, 10:33:54 PM
Ironwood, MI is 75 miles closer to Minneapolis than it is to the Mackinac Bridge. It's also only 75 miles closer to Ohio than it is to Montana.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 20, 2022, 04:59:36 AM
We could put the whole America/Americas/North and South America thing to rest, by renaming North America to Laurentia (like it is know in geological circles), and then South America could be plain America. The downside is that the USA would need to be renamed as well.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on October 20, 2022, 06:14:45 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 20, 2022, 04:59:36 AM
We could put the whole America/Americas/North and South America thing to rest, by renaming North America to Laurentia (like it is know in geological circles), and then South America could be plain America. The downside is that the USA would need to be renamed as well.

Some would suggest Gilead.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 20, 2022, 09:46:09 AM
Quote from: elsmere241 on October 19, 2022, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 03:08:49 PM
Quote from: elsmere241 on October 19, 2022, 12:43:49 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.

The Olympic flag also thinks of the Americas as a single continent. Thus only five rings instead of six.

That's because they separated Oceania from Asia, and didn't want to add a sixth ring to the flag.

I don't think that's the case. The rings represent Asia, Africa, Europe, Australia, and the Americas.

We did a mock Olympics in school (complete with a mock IOC) in 1984, and at that time Australia and the rest of Oceania was considered part of Asia.

I'm going by the Journal of Olympic History, Volume 10 (December 2001—January 2002), page 31:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ohd3LYW.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 12:29:07 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 20, 2022, 04:59:36 AM
We could put the whole America/Americas/North and South America thing to rest, by renaming North America to Laurentia (like it is know in geological circles), and then South America could be plain America. The downside is that the USA would need to be renamed as well.

I don't see how that would be a requirement.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 20, 2022, 01:41:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 12:29:07 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 20, 2022, 04:59:36 AM
We could put the whole America/Americas/North and South America thing to rest, by renaming North America to Laurentia (like it is know in geological circles), and then South America could be plain America. The downside is that the USA would need to be renamed as well.

I don't see how that would be a requirement.

Like how they never renamed the Holy Roman Empire?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on October 20, 2022, 06:11:36 PM
I saw a social media post saying the biggest problem with the United States of America was that they forgot to ever actually name the country anything, they just describe it to you every time it's mentioned.

Anyway, if we stopped being in America but wanted to keep the "USA" abbreviation, you know what else starts with A? Alan.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on October 20, 2022, 08:20:49 PM
This is my United States of Whatever.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GenExpwy on October 20, 2022, 10:54:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 20, 2022, 06:11:36 PM
I saw a social media post saying the biggest problem with the United States of America was that they forgot to ever actually name the country anything, they just describe it to you every time it's mentioned.

I wonder if those same people have the same objection to the "Central African Republic" , or the "Republic of South Africa" .
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on October 21, 2022, 07:04:33 AM
Probably (although I should note that the post was undoubtedly meant to be a joke). At least the two you mention tell you they're theoretically republics. The United States of America could be pretty much anything.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Evan_Th on October 31, 2022, 01:11:03 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 21, 2022, 07:04:33 AM
Probably (although I should note that the post was undoubtedly meant to be a joke). At least the two you mention tell you they're theoretically republics. The United States of America could be pretty much anything.

According to the document that established the name (the Articles of Confederation), it's an international organization of independent sovereign states in America.  That bland descriptiveness has been followed by subsequent international organizations such as the "Organization of American States" or the "United Nations."

Unfortunately, when the Constitution of 1788 turned that international organization into a sovereign state in its own right, nobody changed the name.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on December 18, 2022, 11:01:50 PM
In the 330 miles between San Diego and Las Vegas, I-15 does not enter a county with less than 2 million people. 

(Edited per the following discussion)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on December 18, 2022, 11:11:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 18, 2022, 11:01:50 PM
In the 270 miles between Los Angeles and Las Vegas, I-15 does not enter a county with less than 2 million people. 

You can go even further if you say between Las Vegas and the southern terminus. San Diego County has 3.2 million.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on December 18, 2022, 11:19:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2022, 11:11:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 18, 2022, 11:01:50 PM
In the 270 miles between Los Angeles and Las Vegas, I-15 does not enter a county with less than 2 million people. 

You can go even further if you say between Las Vegas and the southern terminus. San Diego County has 3.2 million.

Yep, that's much better (I actually forgot that I-15 went to San Diego  :crazy:).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on December 19, 2022, 12:25:29 AM
Quote from: webny99 on December 18, 2022, 11:19:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2022, 11:11:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 18, 2022, 11:01:50 PM
In the 270 miles between Los Angeles and Las Vegas, I-15 does not enter a county with less than 2 million people. 

You can go even further if you say between Las Vegas and the southern terminus. San Diego County has 3.2 million.

Yep, that's much better (I actually forgot that I-15 went to San Diego  :crazy:).

And then north of Vegas, it's mostly a whole lot of nothing. Of the 26 counties it passes through north of Las Vegas, only one of them has over 1 million people (Salt Lake UT).

Only six other counties on I-15 even have more than 100k. One is Mohave AZ, which somehow has over 200,000 people but the county is so big area-wise that very little of that is anywhere near I-15. Three are in the greater Wasatch Front region in northern Utah (Utah, Davis, and Weber UT). The other two are Washington UT (St George) and Bonneville ID (Idaho Falls).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kirbykart on December 19, 2022, 08:19:15 AM
 Here's another interesting one: Between the WV-VA border and the NY-ON border, I-81 only passes through two counties with population under 100k (Susquehanna PA and Cortland NY). We can add in Frederick County, VA if we add in the population of the City of Winchester.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: skluth on December 19, 2022, 11:36:59 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 20, 2022, 01:41:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2022, 12:29:07 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 20, 2022, 04:59:36 AM
We could put the whole America/Americas/North and South America thing to rest, by renaming North America to Laurentia (like it is know in geological circles), and then South America could be plain America. The downside is that the USA would need to be renamed as well.

I don't see how that would be a requirement.

Like how they never renamed the Holy Roman Empire?

The Byzantine Empire considered themselves Romans until it fell to the Turks in the 15th Century.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Evan_Th on December 19, 2022, 01:49:10 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on December 19, 2022, 08:19:15 AM
Here's another interesting one: Between the WV-VA border and the NY-ON border, I-81 only passes through two counties with population under 100k (Susquehanna PA and Cortland NY). We can add in Frederick County, VA if we add in the population of the City of Winchester.

That's really surprising, considering how rural the Pennsylvanian mountains look along it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on December 19, 2022, 03:59:45 PM
Quote from: US 89 on December 19, 2022, 12:25:29 AM
Quote from: webny99 on December 18, 2022, 11:19:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 18, 2022, 11:11:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 18, 2022, 11:01:50 PM
In the 270 miles between Los Angeles and Las Vegas, I-15 does not enter a county with less than 2 million people. 

You can go even further if you say between Las Vegas and the southern terminus. San Diego County has 3.2 million.

Yep, that's much better (I actually forgot that I-15 went to San Diego  :crazy:).

And then north of Vegas, it's mostly a whole lot of nothing. Of the 26 counties it passes through north of Las Vegas, only one of them has over 1 million people (Salt Lake UT).

Only six other counties on I-15 even have more than 100k. One is Mohave AZ, which somehow has over 200,000 people but the county is so big area-wise that very little of that is anywhere near I-15. Three are in the greater Wasatch Front region in northern Utah (Utah, Davis, and Weber UT). The other two are Washington UT (St George) and Bonneville ID (Idaho Falls).

That's certainly true as well, but my point was actually that I-15 has a whole lot of nothing between San Diego and Vegas too. Yet the "2 million" stat holds true because of the absurdly massive size of San Bernardino County, which in most of the country would be perhaps 12 counties, the majority of them sparsely populated.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: skluth on December 19, 2022, 04:24:44 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 19, 2022, 03:59:45 PM
And then north of Vegas, it's mostly a whole lot of nothing. Of the 26 counties it passes through north of Las Vegas, only one of them has over 1 million people (Salt Lake UT).
That's certainly true as well, but my point was actually that I-15 has a whole lot of nothing between San Diego and Vegas too. Yet the "2 million" stat holds true because of the absurdly massive size of San Bernardino County, which in most of the country would be perhaps 12 counties, the majority of them sparsely populated.

First, I-15 isn't a lot of nothing between San Diego and San Bernardino. It's about 45 miles of either urban or suburban/exurban use and home to a few million people. The Inland Empire is the #12 metropolitan region by population in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area).  I-15 between San Bernardino and Las Vegas may be mostly rural and a whole lot of nothing, but it's one of the busiest rural interstates in the country with AADTs close to or over 40K in each direction (https://dot.ca.gov/programs/traffic-operations/census/traffic-volumes/2017/route-11-15) on all segments.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on December 19, 2022, 04:49:16 PM
Quote from: skluth on December 19, 2022, 04:24:44 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 19, 2022, 03:59:45 PM
Quote from: US 89 on December 19, 2022, 12:25:29 AM
And then north of Vegas, it's mostly a whole lot of nothing. Of the 26 counties it passes through north of Las Vegas, only one of them has over 1 million people (Salt Lake UT).
That's certainly true as well, but my point was actually that I-15 has a whole lot of nothing between San Diego and Vegas too. Yet the "2 million" stat holds true because of the absurdly massive size of San Bernardino County, which in most of the country would be perhaps 12 counties, the majority of them sparsely populated.

First, I-15 isn't a lot of nothing between San Diego and San Bernardino. It's about 45 miles of either urban or suburban/exurban use and home to a few million people. The Inland Empire is the #12 metropolitan region by population in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area).  I-15 between San Bernardino and Las Vegas may be mostly rural and a whole lot of nothing, but it's one of the busiest rural interstates in the country with AADTs close to or over 40K in each direction (https://dot.ca.gov/programs/traffic-operations/census/traffic-volumes/2017/route-11-15) on all segments.

I guess I should have specified between San Bernardino and Vegas (which is what I was originally going for...)

Point taken about I-15 being very busy interstate, but that doesn't change the fact that the area it passes through is still very rural. 80k AADT is high, but there are other comparable examples around the country, such as I-95 between Baltimore and Philly, and the I-40/I-85 overlap in NC.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on December 20, 2022, 11:01:11 PM
Quote from: Evan_Th on December 19, 2022, 01:49:10 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on December 19, 2022, 08:19:15 AM
Here's another interesting one: Between the WV-VA border and the NY-ON border, I-81 only passes through two counties with population under 100k (Susquehanna PA and Cortland NY). We can add in Frederick County, VA if we add in the population of the City of Winchester.

That's really surprising, considering how rural the Pennsylvanian mountains look along it.

I-81 in PA is kind of a dividing line. Much of the area south/east of it is quite densely populated, even if it doesn't look it at first glance. I-81 also comes close to some less-populous counties (namely Perry and Wyoming), but does not enter them.

What's even more surprising (at least IMO) are the two counties north of Syracuse, Oswego and Jefferson. Driving through them, they feel even more like the middle of nowhere than anything in PA, and both would be very low on the list of NY counties that I would pick out as having population greater than 100k. Jefferson County makes sense when you consider the presence of Watertown and Fort Drum, but nothing about Oswego County would make you think it's that populous. It's also large in area by NY standards, but sparsely populated east of I-81 too. I guess Oswego and the NY 48/NY 481 corridor in general just a lot more populous than I give it credit for.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on December 21, 2022, 11:22:06 AM
Quote from: webny99 on December 20, 2022, 11:01:11 PM
Quote from: Evan_Th on December 19, 2022, 01:49:10 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on December 19, 2022, 08:19:15 AM
Here's another interesting one: Between the WV-VA border and the NY-ON border, I-81 only passes through two counties with population under 100k (Susquehanna PA and Cortland NY). We can add in Frederick County, VA if we add in the population of the City of Winchester.

That's really surprising, considering how rural the Pennsylvanian mountains look along it.

I-81 in PA is kind of a dividing line. Much of the area south/east of it is quite densely populated, even if it doesn't look it at first glance. I-81 also comes close to some less-populous counties (namely Perry and Wyoming), but does not enter them.

What's even more surprising (at least IMO) are the two counties north of Syracuse, Oswego and Jefferson. Driving through them, they feel even more like the middle of nowhere than anything in PA, and both would be very low on the list of NY counties that I would pick out as having population greater than 100k. Jefferson County makes sense when you consider the presence of Watertown and Fort Drum, but nothing about Oswego County would make you think it's that populous. It's also large in area by NY standards, but sparsely populated east of I-81 too. I guess Oswego and the NY 48/NY 481 corridor in general just a lot more populous than I give it credit for.
You can say that last bit a lot louder again.  Oswego County's southern border also is closer to Syracuse than a lot of people may realize.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on December 21, 2022, 02:52:38 PM
Draw a straight line between Vancouver BC and Vancouver, WA, and you can avoid the Seattle metropolitan area entirely. Its closest point is in Lacey, which is just beyond the traditional definition of the metro area.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on December 21, 2022, 03:20:17 PM
Los Angeles is closer to New York City than San Francisco.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on December 21, 2022, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 21, 2022, 03:20:17 PM
Los Angeles is closer to New York City than San Francisco.

True, if unintuitive to parse.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kurumi on December 21, 2022, 10:34:28 PM
In the same vein, Seattle to Reykjavik by air is a little bit shorter than Miami to Reykjavik.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kirbykart on December 22, 2022, 08:32:02 AM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 21, 2022, 03:20:17 PM
Los Angeles is closer to New York City than San Francisco.

Los Angeles is closer to NYC than San Francisco is: Yes
Los Angeles is closer to NYC than to San Francisco: Definitely not

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on December 25, 2022, 01:47:06 AM
Blytheville, AR is closer to Evansville, IN (251.3 miles) than it is to Texarkana, AR (370.8 miles).

And Texarkana at one time traveled to Blytheville in the state football playoffs.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on December 25, 2022, 07:59:20 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 25, 2022, 01:47:06 AM
Blytheville, AR is closer to Evansville, IN (251.3 miles) than it is to Texarkana, AR (370.8 miles).

Harpers Ferry, West Virginia is closer to the Statue of Liberty (217 miles as the crow flies) that it is to the state capital in Charleston (220 miles).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 12:57:03 AM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on December 25, 2022, 07:59:20 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 25, 2022, 01:47:06 AM
Blytheville, AR is closer to Evansville, IN (251.3 miles) than it is to Texarkana, AR (370.8 miles).

Harpers Ferry, West Virginia is closer to the Statue of Liberty (217 miles as the crow flies) that it is to the state capital in Charleston (220 miles).

That portion of West Virginia is closer to Annapolis, Harrisburg, and I think Dover and Richmond, than to Charleston. SP Cook can confirm or refute this statement.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on December 27, 2022, 11:02:30 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 25, 2022, 01:47:06 AM
Blytheville, AR is closer to Evansville, IN (251.3 miles) than it is to Texarkana, AR (370.8 miles).

Quote from: Dirt Roads on December 25, 2022, 07:59:20 PM
Harpers Ferry, West Virginia is closer to the Statue of Liberty (217 miles as the crow flies) that it is to the state capital in Charleston (220 miles).

Quote from: hbelkins on December 27, 2022, 12:57:03 AM
That portion of West Virginia is closer to Annapolis, Harrisburg, and I think Dover and Richmond, than to Charleston. SP Cook can confirm or refute this statement.

Also add Trenton to your list, making five (5) state capitals closer than its own.  But Harpers Ferry can't compete against Jonesville, Virginia that is closer to eight (8) state capitals than its own.  I thought that someone had already mentioned this upstream - but this was the answer to a trivia question back in the late-1970s by Marilyn vos Savant in Parade magazine:  Raleigh (258); Columbia (201); Atlanta (215); Nashville (209); Frankfort (142); Charleston (141); Columbus (225); Indianapolis (270); are closer than its own capital Richmond (317).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on December 29, 2022, 07:30:00 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 12:12:26 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.

The Olympic flag also thinks of the Americas as a single continent. Thus only five rings instead of six.

They need to stop as well. :-D
The most extreme case of continent count would combines Europe, Asia and Africa into one continuous land mass (Suez canal being man-made after all!), as well as North and South Americas. Disregarding Antarctic is also an option as actual above sea level rock area is minimal. That brings us down to 2 major continents and Australia.  I don't think anyone relegates Australia to an island status, though...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 10:32:35 AM
I was about to post one:  Europe has more countries than Asia.

But now I'm doubting myself.  Is it actually true?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 10:43:25 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 10:32:35 AM
I was about to post one:  Europe has more countries than Asia.

But now I'm doubting myself.  Is it actually true?

It depends on how you count the Caucasus countries (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan), what you want to do about Turkey, Russia, and Kazkhastan, countries that are pretty definitively in both, and what you want to do with Cyprus.

Assuming Cyprus is Asian and you count the latter three in both continents:
If you count the Caucasus 3 as Asian, Asia wins 49 to 48.
If you count them as European, Europe wins 50 to 47.
If you count them as both, they tie 50 to 50.

Geographically, Armenia is 100% Asian whereas Georgia and Azerbaijan have territory in both continents. So, if we count Armenia as only Asian and Georgia & Azerbaijan as both, it's back up to Asia 51, Europe 50.

(This obviously depends on your recognition of places like Kosovo, Palestine, TRNC, etc., but I'm going on U.S. recognized countries.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 11:40:53 AM
The reason I brought it up is that our family was playing Trivial Pursuit Live on the Xbox the other day, and one of the questions asked whether Europe or Asia had more countries.  The correct answer was Europe, and I think I remember the count being 52.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 11:45:55 AM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 11:40:53 AM
The reason I brought it up is that our family was playing Trivial Pursuit Live on the Xbox the other day, and one of the questions asked whether Europe or Asia had more countries.  The correct answer was Europe, and I think I remember the count being 52.

I don't see how any count would get you 52. I guess if they counted the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as a) independent and b) European? Maybe something odd like Greenland, the Faeroes, or Svalbard?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 11:47:18 AM
I still think most people wouldn't pick Africa as the continent with the most countries.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:06:06 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 11:45:55 AM
I don't see how any count would get you 52. I guess if they counted the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as a) independent and b) European? Maybe something odd like Greenland, the Faeroes, or Svalbard?

Greenland wouldn't be all that odd to include, IMO.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:15:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:06:06 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 11:45:55 AM
I don't see how any count would get you 52. I guess if they counted the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as a) independent and b) European? Maybe something odd like Greenland, the Faeroes, or Svalbard?

Greenland wouldn't be all that odd to include, IMO.

A) It's owned by Denmark
B) It's in North America if anything
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:25:01 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:15:57 PM

Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:06:06 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 11:45:55 AM
I don't see how any count would get you 52. I guess if they counted the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as a) independent and b) European? Maybe something odd like Greenland, the Faeroes, or Svalbard?

Greenland wouldn't be all that odd to include, IMO.

A) It's owned by Denmark
B) It's in North America if anything

I get that.  But (A) Greenland is an autonomous country within that kingdom and has its own Prime Minister and such, and (B) Denmark is in Europe, therefore Greenland could be considered to be politically in Europe even if it isn't geographically in Europe.

I realize that the Faroe Islands also fit those criteria.  All I'm saying is that I don't think it's nuts to count Greenland as a European country.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:25:01 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:15:57 PM

Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:06:06 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 11:45:55 AM
I don't see how any count would get you 52. I guess if they counted the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as a) independent and b) European? Maybe something odd like Greenland, the Faeroes, or Svalbard?

Greenland wouldn't be all that odd to include, IMO.

A) It's owned by Denmark
B) It's in North America if anything

I get that.  But (A) Greenland is an autonomous country within that kingdom and has its own Prime Minister and such, and (B) Denmark is in Europe, therefore Greenland could be considered to be politically in Europe even if it isn't geographically in Europe.

I realize that the Faroe Islands also fit those criteria.  All I'm saying is that I don't think it's nuts to count Greenland as a European country.

I'd argue that Svalbard is more independent than Greenland, as it's basically owned by no country but just administered by Norway. Also, I've been there, so I'd like to count another country.  :)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:53:58 PM
That's fine.  I'm not saying the number should be 52.  I'm just saying it wouldn't be "something odd" to count Greenland.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:54:45 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:53:58 PM
That's fine.  I'm not saying the number should be 52.  I'm just saying it wouldn't be "something odd" to count Greenland.

Sure, sure. We're on the same page.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on December 30, 2022, 04:20:37 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:53:58 PM
That's fine.  I'm not saying the number should be 52.  I'm just saying it wouldn't be "something odd" to count Greenland.

Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:54:45 PM
Sure, sure. We're on the same page.

Too high.  "42 is the answer to life, the universe and everything".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 04:28:54 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on December 30, 2022, 04:20:37 PM
Too high.  "42 is the answer to life, the universe and everything".

And, if you pull tiles randomly from a Scrabble bag, you'll get the question.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on December 30, 2022, 05:02:29 PM
It's also possible, depending on the age of the game, that the person writing the question had a completely different set of extant countries than we do now. Although I can't think of any European countries that have ceased to exist recently.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: J N Winkler on December 30, 2022, 05:26:31 PM
Deep cleaning this month included dusting a Replogle relief globe that shows the DDR and USSR.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on December 30, 2022, 07:15:28 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:39:07 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:25:01 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 12:15:57 PM

Quote from: kphoger on December 30, 2022, 12:06:06 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 30, 2022, 11:45:55 AM
I don't see how any count would get you 52. I guess if they counted the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as a) independent and b) European? Maybe something odd like Greenland, the Faeroes, or Svalbard?

Greenland wouldn't be all that odd to include, IMO.

A) It's owned by Denmark
B) It's in North America if anything

I get that.  But (A) Greenland is an autonomous country within that kingdom and has its own Prime Minister and such, and (B) Denmark is in Europe, therefore Greenland could be considered to be politically in Europe even if it isn't geographically in Europe.

I realize that the Faroe Islands also fit those criteria.  All I'm saying is that I don't think it's nuts to count Greenland as a European country.

I'd argue that Svalbard is more independent than Greenland, as it's basically owned by no country but just administered by Norway. Also, I've been there, so I'd like to count another country.  :)

Svalbard is interesting. It's an integral part of the kingdom of Norway and is administered by a governor appointed by the national government. So, in that sense, it's as Norwegian as things get. On the other hand, no one needs a visa to live or work there, or to fish in the local waters, and taxes are limited by treaty. Moreover, while Norway has ratified the Schengen agreement, Svalbard is not part of the Schengen area, and also, military operations are prohbited.

So, it's definitely a unique place.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on December 31, 2022, 03:16:46 AM
Svalbard temperatures this time of year seem to tend around 20ºF, which for their latitude seems quite pleasant. The 23 1/2 hours of darkness is another matter. I would be quite drunk there in the winter.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: skluth on December 31, 2022, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 30, 2022, 05:02:29 PM
It's also possible, depending on the age of the game, that the person writing the question had a completely different set of extant countries than we do now. Although I can't think of any European countries that have ceased to exist recently.

Much to Vladimir Putin's annoyance
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on December 31, 2022, 06:13:58 PM
Quote from: skluth on December 31, 2022, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 30, 2022, 05:02:29 PM
It's also possible, depending on the age of the game, that the person writing the question had a completely different set of extant countries than we do now. Although I can't think of any European countries that have ceased to exist recently.

Much to Vladimir Putin's annoyance

Oh, ew, I completely didn't consider the possibility that the question writer might have counted Putin's various imaginary countries (like the "DPR", "LPR", Transnistria, etc.).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 03, 2023, 09:14:58 AM
FWIW, a lot of the other questions in the game appear to have been written around the year 2014.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 06, 2023, 04:08:09 PM
I've noticed I-81's section in "East" Virginia is entirely West of its section in West Virginia. The same was true of US 340 before it was realigned around Harpers Ferry.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bwana39 on January 10, 2023, 10:58:44 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 25, 2022, 01:47:06 AM
Blytheville, AR is closer to Evansville, IN (251.3 miles) than it is to Texarkana, AR (370.8 miles).

And Texarkana at one time traveled to Blytheville in the state football playoffs.

Blytheville is closer to the nearest point in Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama,Georgia, and Louisiana than it is to Texas (Texarkana AR is on the state line.) So 12 states are closer than Texarkana. North Carolina is only around 30 miles farther.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 02:46:57 AM
I'm not sure this has already been mentioned, but I discovered just now that a part of New Hampshire is due north of Vermont at the Canadian border near Beecher Falls, Vermont.  This occurs because while the border between the two states is the Connecticut River, the international boundary (Québec-NH at this point) follows a tributary just to the west, which leaves Vermont with a triangle of land (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.009761,-71.4861019,14.08z) whose northern boundary is an extension of the Canadian border east to the Connecticut River (nominally the 45th Parallel, but the 18th-century surveys were not accurate).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bwana39 on January 11, 2023, 08:12:26 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 31, 2022, 06:13:58 PM
Quote from: skluth on December 31, 2022, 04:48:46 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 30, 2022, 05:02:29 PM
It's also possible, depending on the age of the game, that the person writing the question had a completely different set of extant countries than we do now. Although I can't think of any European countries that have ceased to exist recently.

Much to Vladimir Putin's annoyance

Oh, ew, I completely didn't consider the possibility that the question writer might have counted Putin's various imaginary countries (like the "DPR", "LPR", Transnistria, etc.).

My kid was in middle school in the mid-90's. The textbook was a little older. The teacher was still teaching about the Soviet Union which was 5 years dissolved by that point.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 10:25:53 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on January 11, 2023, 08:12:26 AM
My kid was in middle school in the mid-90's. The textbook was a little older. The teacher was still teaching about the Soviet Union which was 5 years dissolved by that point.

Well, I should hope teachers haven't stopped teaching about the Soviet Union.   :awesomeface:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 12:37:26 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 10:25:53 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on January 11, 2023, 08:12:26 AM
My kid was in middle school in the mid-90's. The textbook was a little older. The teacher was still teaching about the Soviet Union which was 5 years dissolved by that point.

Well, I should hope teachers haven't stopped teaching about the Soviet Union.   :awesomeface:

In Oklahoma, they never started–the curriculum didn't cover events that recent.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 12, 2023, 07:04:47 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 12:37:26 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 10:25:53 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on January 11, 2023, 08:12:26 AM
My kid was in middle school in the mid-90's. The textbook was a little older. The teacher was still teaching about the Soviet Union which was 5 years dissolved by that point.

Well, I should hope teachers haven't stopped teaching about the Soviet Union.   :awesomeface:

In Oklahoma, they never started–the curriculum didn't cover events that recent.
That's disturbing, since that was almost the way it was when I graduated from high school about 30 years ago.

My kids' classes in NY covered much more recent events, however.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on January 12, 2023, 09:37:42 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 02:46:57 AM
I'm not sure this has already been mentioned, but I discovered just now that a part of New Hampshire is due north of Vermont at the Canadian border near Beecher Falls, Vermont.  This occurs because while the border between the two states is the Connecticut River, the international boundary (Québec-NH at this point) follows a tributary just to the west, which leaves Vermont with a triangle of land (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.009761,-71.4861019,14.08z) whose northern boundary is an extension of the Canadian border east to the Connecticut River (nominally the 45th Parallel, but the 18th-century surveys were not accurate).

I had never noticed this before either. It is odd that this triangle of land belongs to Vermont and not New Hampshire.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on January 12, 2023, 10:16:48 AM
Quote from: webny99 on January 12, 2023, 09:37:42 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 02:46:57 AM
I'm not sure this has already been mentioned, but I discovered just now that a part of New Hampshire is due north of Vermont at the Canadian border near Beecher Falls, Vermont.  This occurs because while the border between the two states is the Connecticut River, the international boundary (Québec-NH at this point) follows a tributary just to the west, which leaves Vermont with a triangle of land (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.009761,-71.4861019,14.08z) whose northern boundary is an extension of the Canadian border east to the Connecticut River (nominally the 45th Parallel, but the 18th-century surveys were not accurate).

I had never noticed this before either. It is odd that this triangle of land belongs to Vermont and not New Hampshire.
It should then be transferred to New Hampshire.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MATraveler128 on January 12, 2023, 10:58:45 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 12, 2023, 10:16:48 AM
Quote from: webny99 on January 12, 2023, 09:37:42 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 02:46:57 AM
I'm not sure this has already been mentioned, but I discovered just now that a part of New Hampshire is due north of Vermont at the Canadian border near Beecher Falls, Vermont.  This occurs because while the border between the two states is the Connecticut River, the international boundary (Québec-NH at this point) follows a tributary just to the west, which leaves Vermont with a triangle of land (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.009761,-71.4861019,14.08z) whose northern boundary is an extension of the Canadian border east to the Connecticut River (nominally the 45th Parallel, but the 18th-century surveys were not accurate).

I had never noticed this before either. It is odd that this triangle of land belongs to Vermont and not New Hampshire.
It should then be transferred to New Hampshire.

What would be the point in that? No one lives in that little nub of Vermont anyway.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 12, 2023, 11:00:07 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 12, 2023, 10:16:48 AM

Quote from: webny99 on January 12, 2023, 09:37:42 AM

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 11, 2023, 02:46:57 AM
I'm not sure this has already been mentioned, but I discovered just now that a part of New Hampshire is due north of Vermont at the Canadian border near Beecher Falls, Vermont.  This occurs because while the border between the two states is the Connecticut River, the international boundary (Québec-NH at this point) follows a tributary just to the west, which leaves Vermont with a triangle of land (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.009761,-71.4861019,14.08z) whose northern boundary is an extension of the Canadian border east to the Connecticut River (nominally the 45th Parallel, but the 18th-century surveys were not accurate).

I had never noticed this before either. It is odd that this triangle of land belongs to Vermont and not New Hampshire.

It should then be transferred to New Hampshire.

Nah.  Each boundary follows a river.  It's fine the way it is.  If that small triangle were part of New Hampshire, then the very few people who live there would be further isolated from the nearest community in their state.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 12:27:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 12, 2023, 07:04:47 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 12:37:26 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 10:25:53 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on January 11, 2023, 08:12:26 AM
My kid was in middle school in the mid-90's. The textbook was a little older. The teacher was still teaching about the Soviet Union which was 5 years dissolved by that point.

Well, I should hope teachers haven't stopped teaching about the Soviet Union.   :awesomeface:

In Oklahoma, they never started–the curriculum didn't cover events that recent.
That's disturbing, since that was almost the way it was when I graduated from high school about 30 years ago.

My kids' classes in NY covered much more recent events, however.

The most recent event the history curriculum covered was Reconstruction, because every year history began at the American Revolution and by the time we got done with the Civil War the school year was about out.

The most recent event that we were actually taught was the Kennedy assassination, simply because the teacher enjoyed teaching it. It wasn't on the state standardized test.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on January 12, 2023, 12:36:32 PM
In my school, 10th and 11th grade were split so that 1877 (end of Reconstruction) was the cutoff point between grades and the two grades covered everything, but since I took AP in 11th, the earlier stuff got covered twice.

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 12:27:14 PM
history began at the American Revolution

Massachusetts definitely doesn't have the issue where things before the American Revolution were skipped. Part of this could be because my current location was settled around 1640, and back two more decades closer to the coast, meaning that local history would be skipped if we started in the late 1700s.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: J N Winkler on January 12, 2023, 01:10:37 PM
At my high school, US history was split into two years, with the first spent on colonization up to Reconstruction, and the second (also the AP US History section) dedicated to Reconstruction to LBJ's Great Society, the latter being about 25 years in the past at that point.  My APUSH teacher, who died almost a decade later (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/53922788/lillian-m-yeargan) of cancer, had grown up in Arkansas and spoke of missing her first opportunity to vote because poll taxes were still required (they had not been banned at that point) and had not been paid on her behalf.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 12, 2023, 12:36:32 PM
In my school, 10th and 11th grade were split so that 1877 (end of Reconstruction) was the cutoff point between grades and the two grades covered everything, but since I took AP in 11th, the earlier stuff got covered twice.

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 12:27:14 PM
history began at the American Revolution

Massachusetts definitely doesn't have the issue where things before the American Revolution were skipped. Part of this could be because my current location was settled around 1640, and back two more decades closer to the coast, meaning that local history would be skipped if we started in the late 1700s.

If I remember correctly, some years they would get into the colonial era more than others, but generally the year opened with something like the Stamp Act or the Boston Tea Party or something like that.

The Trail of Tears got less coverage than most people from outside Oklahoma would think it would.

Because of when history ended, generally one got the impression that Oklahoma didn't factor into history at all. We had a one-semester Oklahoma History class that was absolutely fascinating, but didn't really explore themes other than 'Charles Haskell was the first governor, the Legislature was fucking crazy for the first few decades and would impeach anything that moved, we had a governor who was in the KKK, and now here's a whole unit on William H. "Alfalfa Bill" Murray.' We also had to draw a map of the counties for some reason, which was fun but not really history since we didn't get into anything like the creation of Swanson County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 02:09:15 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 12, 2023, 12:36:32 PM
In my school, 10th and 11th grade were split so that 1877 (end of Reconstruction) was the cutoff point between grades and the two grades covered everything, but since I took AP in 11th, the earlier stuff got covered twice.

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 12:27:14 PM
history began at the American Revolution

Massachusetts definitely doesn't have the issue where things before the American Revolution were skipped. Part of this could be because my current location was settled around 1640, and back two more decades closer to the coast, meaning that local history would be skipped if we started in the late 1700s.

If I remember correctly, some years they would get into the colonial era more than others, but generally the year opened with something like the Stamp Act or the Boston Tea Party or something like that.

The Trail of Tears got less coverage than most people from outside Oklahoma would think it would.

Because of when history ended, generally one got the impression that Oklahoma didn't factor into history at all. We had a one-semester Oklahoma History class that was absolutely fascinating, but didn't really explore themes other than 'Charles Haskell was the first governor, the Legislature was fucking crazy for the first few decades and would impeach anything that moved, we had a governor who was in the KKK, and now here's a whole unit on William H. "Alfalfa Bill" Murray.' We also had to draw a map of the counties for some reason, which was fun but not really history since we didn't get into anything like the creation of Swanson County.

What about Greer County, Texas?  The only former Texas county now in another state and was resolved by a Supreme Court ruling and is now Greer, Harmon, Jackson and Beckham counties, Oklahoma.  I just learned about this two weeks ago and I have to say, it was a very interesting subject. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: J N Winkler on January 12, 2023, 02:48:31 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 02:23:20 PMWhat about Greer County, Texas?  The only former Texas county now in another state and was resolved by a Supreme Court ruling and is now Greer, Harmon, Jackson and Beckham counties, Oklahoma.  I just learned about this two weeks ago and I have to say, it was a very interesting subject.

A little over five years ago, I made a trip specifically to see Greer County, Texas.

I've found Wikipedia to be a useful resource for backfilling my knowledge of the more regional aspects of US history--not just territorial disputes arising from imperfect knowledge of geography (like Greer County or the Northwest Angle), but also county formation in various states, the role ANCSA played in formation of the National Parks in Alaska, regional economic disputes such as the Johnson County War in Wyoming, and so on.

Especially at the high-school level, core history classes are an exercise in choosing what not to teach--this is an inevitability of the format, quite aside from bias on the part of bodies that regulate what textbooks can be used in schools.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 02:23:20 PM
What about Greer County, Texas?  The only former Texas county now in another state and was resolved by a Supreme Court ruling and is now Greer, Harmon, Jackson and Beckham counties, Oklahoma.  I just learned about this two weeks ago and I have to say, it was a very interesting subject. 

Nope, they didn't teach us any of that. I only learned about it because I am interested in county counting.

We did learn about the Red River Bridge War, though, which inspired me to write the Wikipedia article on it.

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 12, 2023, 02:48:31 PM
... county formation in various states ...

An excellent resource for this is the Atlas of Historical County Boundaries Project (https://digital.newberry.org/ahcb/).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 02:54:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 02:52:01 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on January 12, 2023, 02:23:20 PM
What about Greer County, Texas?  The only former Texas county now in another state and was resolved by a Supreme Court ruling and is now Greer, Harmon, Jackson and Beckham counties, Oklahoma.  I just learned about this two weeks ago and I have to say, it was a very interesting subject. 

Nope, they didn't teach us any of that. I only learned about it because I am interested in county counting.

We did learn about the Red River Bridge War, though, which inspired me to write the Wikipedia article on it.

I read that, also fascinating.  One of the few times a US state went to war with another US state. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bulldog1979 on January 13, 2023, 04:19:28 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 12, 2023, 12:27:14 PM
The most recent event the history curriculum covered was Reconstruction, because every year history began at the American Revolution and by the time we got done with the Civil War the school year was about out.

The most recent event that we were actually taught was the Kennedy assassination, simply because the teacher enjoyed teaching it. It wasn't on the state standardized test.

In my district, the history portion of social studies was similar for most of elementary school, covering the period from the Age of Exploration up through the American Civil War at varying levels of detail. The curriculum had a different focus for 6th grade, covering classical history. In 7th grade, social studies was more geography focused, and we had units on Europe, Russia and Japan. In 8th grade, we used the first of a two-volume set of textbooks that had the same focus on American history from before the Age of Exploration up to Reconstruction. The second volume of the set was used in 11th American History, so we covered up to the Civil Rights Era, which was only about 30 years behind the modern day at the time.

For 10th grade, we had a class in Modern History, which covered the late 19th and the 20th centuries from a global perspective, things like the Race for Africa, the background to World War  I and the war itself, the Great Depression and the background to World War II, and then separate units on the European and Pacific theaters in WW II. We got up to some early Cold War topics like the Korea War, the Berlin Wall and the background to the Vietnam War.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on January 13, 2023, 01:00:01 PM
Interesting.  I want to say middle school got up to the Gulf War and high school to around 9/11.  This would have been in the 2000s too, so pretty current.  I don't remember much in the way of structure through around 6th grade or so, but 7th grade on was fairly logical:
-7th: US history, colonial era to Civil War
-8th: US history, Reconstruction to Gulf War
-9th: World history, Africa, South Asia, Southeast Asia, East Asia, and Latin America (each region was broken down by geography, early history, European imperialism, and modern history)
-10th: World history, Europe and the Middle East (chronological, at least for those of us in the enriched section; no idea how the regular sections covered it)
-11th: US history, colonial era to 9/11 (at least for the AP American classes; less sure what the regular classes did, but I think the most recent stuff was in supplemental handouts after the AP exam, so they're probably similar)
-12th: instead of a regular class, it's broken down into two half-year long classes, one on Economics, and the other on Law and Government; can't speak much for the latter, since I took the year-long AP Government and Politics (first half, US government, second half, comparative) instead
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CoreySamson on January 13, 2023, 02:14:31 PM
My homeschool curriculum history went something like this:

7th: General World History
8th: General American History
9th: Complete Church History
10th: 20th Century World History
11th: American Civics, Law, and Government (as well as Economics)
12th: World Literature and Worldview Studies

I liked that I got an entire year dedicated to the 20th Century. That was a really interesting course.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 02:22:51 PM
I had one year of American History and one year of World History in high school.

Don't ask me what they taught in either class.  I do remember excelling at labeling the map of the US states and the map of European countries, because I'm a map geek.  I also remember there was some stuff about the Civil War.  And the World Wars.  Probably some other stuff too.  I annoyed my World History teacher by learning how to write like the US Constitution and then using that script on all my assignments.  With a fountain pen.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 13, 2023, 02:28:56 PM
In high school, I took a semester class on the Holocaust and another on the American West on top of the typical U.S. and world history classes.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on January 13, 2023, 02:32:48 PM
In high school we had world history freshman year and American history sophomore year. I also happen to take AP American History my senior year. My favorite history class I ever took was the Rise and Fall of Apartheid my sophomore year of college.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kirbykart on January 13, 2023, 02:41:25 PM
 For the title question, did you know that Kingston is closer to Copenhagen than to San Diego?

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on January 13, 2023, 02:43:31 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 13, 2023, 02:41:25 PM
For the title question, did you know that Kingston is closer to Copenhagen than to San Diego?

Kingston, Jamaica
San Diego – 2700 miles
Copenhagen – 5170 miles

Kingston, Ontario
San Diego – 2300 miles
Copenhagen – 3750 miles
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kirbykart on January 13, 2023, 02:46:22 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 13, 2023, 02:43:31 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 13, 2023, 02:41:25 PM
For the title question, did you know that Kingston is closer to Copenhagen than to San Diego?

Kingston, Jamaica
San Diego – 2700 miles
Copenhagen – 5170 miles

Kingston, Ontario
San Diego – 2300 miles
Copenhagen – 3750 miles

I was obviously referring to  Copenhagen, NY. (https://goo.gl/maps/VvtejHB4gfkovtTcA)  :bigass:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CoreySamson on January 13, 2023, 02:47:59 PM
Kingston upon Hull is closer to both Copenhagen, DK, and Copenhagen, NY than it is to San Diego.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on January 13, 2023, 02:49:45 PM
There is probably a ton of kings closer to Copenhagen than San Diego.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 03:03:22 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 13, 2023, 02:46:22 PM
I was obviously referring to Copenhagen, NY.

Referring to Copenhagen, NY, would certainly defy conventional wisdom.  But I don't think that's the spirit of this thread.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 13, 2023, 04:21:46 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 13, 2023, 02:46:22 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 13, 2023, 02:43:31 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 13, 2023, 02:41:25 PM
For the title question, did you know that Kingston is closer to Copenhagen than to San Diego?

Kingston, Jamaica
San Diego – 2700 miles
Copenhagen – 5170 miles

Kingston, Ontario
San Diego – 2300 miles
Copenhagen – 3750 miles

I was obviously referring to  Copenhagen, NY. (https://goo.gl/maps/VvtejHB4gfkovtTcA)  :bigass:
Ugh.  Go pound sand.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bwana39 on January 13, 2023, 04:29:14 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 11, 2023, 10:25:53 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on January 11, 2023, 08:12:26 AM
My kid was in middle school in the mid-90's. The textbook was a little older. The teacher was still teaching about the Soviet Union which was 5 years dissolved by that point.

Well, I should hope teachers haven't stopped teaching about the Soviet Union.   :awesomeface:

He was teaching it as a current construct, not as something from the past.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kirbykart on January 14, 2023, 11:31:38 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 13, 2023, 03:03:22 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 13, 2023, 02:46:22 PM
I was obviously referring to Copenhagen, NY.

Referring to Copenhagen, NY, would certainly defy conventional wisdom.  But I don't think that's the spirit of this thread.
Using these little towns, you can do things like:
Geneva (PA) is closer to Warsaw (NY) than to Paris (TX or France)
This could be its own thread.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dlsterner on January 14, 2023, 01:28:45 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on January 14, 2023, 11:31:38 AM
Using these little towns, you can do things like:
Geneva (PA) is closer to Warsaw (NY) than to Paris (TX or France)
This could be its own thread.

Just because it could be doesn't mean it should be :)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on January 14, 2023, 05:07:54 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on January 13, 2023, 02:14:31 PM
My homeschool curriculum history went something like this:

9th: Complete Church History


Just out of idle curiosity, the complete history of which church?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on January 14, 2023, 06:33:43 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 29, 2022, 07:30:00 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 12:12:26 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 19, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on October 19, 2022, 11:24:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 19, 2022, 07:14:06 AM
It should just be Eurasia

I know this is just a vocabulary thing, but in my view at least, the whole thing should be just Asia, with Europe being the westernmost part of it.

Also, the French tend to think of North America and South America as two parts of the same continent (called l'Amérique), and I wish they would stop.

The Olympic flag also thinks of the Americas as a single continent. Thus only five rings instead of six.

They need to stop as well. :-D
The most extreme case of continent count would combines Europe, Asia and Africa into one continuous land mass (Suez canal being man-made after all!), as well as North and South Americas. Disregarding Antarctic is also an option as actual above sea level rock area is minimal. That brings us down to 2 major continents and Australia.  I don't think anyone relegates Australia to an island status, though...

Actually many British geography texts call Australia an island that is part of Oceania, making the continents five:  Europe, Asia, North America, South America, and Oceania.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on January 14, 2023, 07:37:25 PM
^ Are Africa and Antarctica not continents as well?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CoreySamson on January 14, 2023, 08:40:23 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 14, 2023, 05:07:54 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on January 13, 2023, 02:14:31 PM
My homeschool curriculum history went something like this:

9th: Complete Church History


Just out of idle curiosity, the complete history of which church?
The entire Christian Church, from the early Roman church to modern missionary efforts and Pentecostalism (and pretty much everything in between, including the different splits and denominations).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on January 15, 2023, 12:35:37 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 14, 2023, 07:37:25 PM
^ Are Africa and Antarctica not continents as well?

Antarctica is often considered to be an island.  Africa can go either way.  Sometimes Oceania is considered to be just a bunch of islands and Africa considered to be a continent.  It comes down to there's no hard and fast definition, just whatever your teachers had you memorize in school.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on January 15, 2023, 12:37:18 AM
I have never heard Antarctica as anything but a continent. Geologically it is most certainly one.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on January 15, 2023, 04:19:12 AM
I had a teacher try to tell me that Greenland was a continent.  I was punished for "correcting the teacher"
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 15, 2023, 09:30:36 AM
Quote from: kkt on January 15, 2023, 12:35:37 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 14, 2023, 07:37:25 PM
^ Are Africa and Antarctica not continents as well?

Antarctica is often considered to be an island.  Africa can go either way.  Sometimes Oceania is considered to be just a bunch of islands and Africa considered to be a continent.  It comes down to there's no hard and fast definition, just whatever your teachers had you memorize in school.
*citation needed*
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on January 15, 2023, 09:51:26 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on January 14, 2023, 08:40:23 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 14, 2023, 05:07:54 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on January 13, 2023, 02:14:31 PM
My homeschool curriculum history went something like this:

9th: Complete Church History


Just out of idle curiosity, the complete history of which church?
The entire Christian Church, from the early Roman church to modern missionary efforts and Pentecostalism (and pretty much everything in between, including the different splits and denominations).

Interesting, thanks.



Quote from: kkt on January 15, 2023, 12:35:37 AM
Quote from: vdeane on January 14, 2023, 07:37:25 PM
^ Are Africa and Antarctica not continents as well?

Africa can go either way.


There is no way this is true.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on January 15, 2023, 11:08:54 AM
I guess Africa could maybe be considered two continents, since the eastern fourth of it is in the process of rifting away (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_African_Rift)...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on January 17, 2023, 03:17:46 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on June 11, 2016, 03:02:54 AM
Did you know that in the UK there are days when it never goes from twilight to night. The sun has to be 18 degrees below the horizon before "night" happens in an astronomical way. the UK is northern enough to where it doesn't happen


And I just found out that parallel 48^33'43''N, which is southern boundary of areas wih no noght proper in summer solstice, passes just south of northernmost point in Hungary.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Takumi on January 19, 2023, 07:15:15 PM
The northernmost tip of Africa is at the same latitude as Richmond, VA. The southernmost point of Africa is just south of Montevideo, Uruguay.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on January 20, 2023, 03:30:56 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2015, 02:50:10 PM
Travel in a straight line in all four cardinal directions from Superior, Wisconsin and the next state you hit will always be Minnesota.

Try finding another place like that; it's really hard.


I'm sure many places along the Jersey/Pennsylvania border meet this criteria, such as:

Dropped pin
https://maps.app.goo.gl/FswRHNERLZRLwfpMA

This is actually easy, here's one from North/South Carolina:

16200-16222 Cozy Cove Rd
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1gZcyEP3Ke88zWu58

But to clarify, is this by road or as the crow flies?

Edit: Jeez look at that Arkansas Mississippi state line! You could probably cross it a few times in one cardinal direction. Basically follow the Mississippi/Ohio Rivers and you'll find dozens or hundreds of these examples.

Phillips County
https://maps.app.goo.gl/aYFHJdZJa2VzWVM18
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Dirt Roads on January 20, 2023, 05:09:13 PM
^^^
This location on the Appalachian Trail in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia fits this category.  Plus, when you go a few hundred feet north approaching the Virginia border, the westward line actually crosses into Virginia twice.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MultiMillionMiler on January 20, 2023, 05:18:11 PM
I don't know who designed those state lines but literally some of them almost wrap into a circle, like Davis Island for example.

Here's one: Delaware is connected to New Jersey by land, although I don't know if the public can access it.

Dropped pin
https://maps.app.goo.gl/WSmrdgZLKZmyXWEn7

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on January 20, 2023, 05:56:32 PM
MMM, ever heard of meanders?

Some borders are weird because when the border was legally defined, there were assumptions made that turned out to not be correct. The NW Angle in MN is one of those; it's also the basis for Michigan Territory's claim to Toledo.

Look for a book called "How the States Got Their Shapes". There might also be a video version.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Ted$8roadFan on January 21, 2023, 09:56:55 AM
Quote from: GaryV on January 20, 2023, 05:56:32 PM
MMM, ever heard of meanders?

Some borders are weird because when the border was legally defined, there were assumptions made that turned out to not be correct. The NW Angle in MN is one of those; it's also the basis for Michigan Territory's claim to Toledo.

Look for a book called "How the States Got Their Shapes". There might also be a video version.

There was/is a show on How the States Got Their Shapes. I think it was the National Geographic Channel or something similar.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on January 21, 2023, 03:39:31 PM
Inuvik, NT has solar noon at 3:00 pm at summer. Inuvik definitely needs to join Pacific Time Zone.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on February 25, 2023, 03:03:43 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinas,_California
Here is another one Salinas, CA is the largest city in Monterey County, CA and not Monterey City proper itself.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bwana39 on February 25, 2023, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 12, 2023, 01:10:37 PM
At my high school, US history was split into two years, with the first spent on colonization up to Reconstruction, and the second (also the AP US History section) dedicated to Reconstruction to LBJ's Great Society, the latter being about 25 years in the past at that point.  My APUSH teacher, who died almost a decade later (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/53922788/lillian-m-yeargan) of cancer, had grown up in Arkansas and spoke of missing her first opportunity to vote because poll taxes were still required (they had not been banned at that point) and had not been paid on her behalf.


Poll taxes applied to everyone regardless to race, sex, or creed. They clearly were more difficult to pay if you were poor and most minority group members in that era in the south were poor. They almost surely were done to target the minority groups, but they were not the only ones affected by them .
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on February 25, 2023, 03:16:32 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on February 25, 2023, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 12, 2023, 01:10:37 PM
At my high school, US history was split into two years, with the first spent on colonization up to Reconstruction, and the second (also the AP US History section) dedicated to Reconstruction to LBJ's Great Society, the latter being about 25 years in the past at that point.  My APUSH teacher, who died almost a decade later (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/53922788/lillian-m-yeargan) of cancer, had grown up in Arkansas and spoke of missing her first opportunity to vote because poll taxes were still required (they had not been banned at that point) and had not been paid on her behalf.

Poll taxes applied to everyone regardless to race, sex, or creed. They clearly were more difficult to pay if you were poor and most minority group members in that era in the south were poor. They almost surely were done to target the minority groups, but they were not the only ones affected by them .


The grandfather clause, in the original sense of the term, exempted this, although it varied by state, and Arkansas does not appear to be on the list of states that had it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 25, 2023, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2023, 03:16:32 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on February 25, 2023, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 12, 2023, 01:10:37 PM
At my high school, US history was split into two years, with the first spent on colonization up to Reconstruction, and the second (also the AP US History section) dedicated to Reconstruction to LBJ's Great Society, the latter being about 25 years in the past at that point.  My APUSH teacher, who died almost a decade later (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/53922788/lillian-m-yeargan) of cancer, had grown up in Arkansas and spoke of missing her first opportunity to vote because poll taxes were still required (they had not been banned at that point) and had not been paid on her behalf.

Poll taxes applied to everyone regardless to race, sex, or creed. They clearly were more difficult to pay if you were poor and most minority group members in that era in the south were poor. They almost surely were done to target the minority groups, but they were not the only ones affected by them .


The grandfather clause, in the original sense of the term, exempted this, although it varied by state, and Arkansas does not appear to be on the list of states that had it.
Many states in the south also disenfranchised poor whites. This led to voter turnout being lower in the 1950s than in the 1870s during reconstruction.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on February 25, 2023, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 25, 2023, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2023, 03:16:32 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on February 25, 2023, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 12, 2023, 01:10:37 PM
At my high school, US history was split into two years, with the first spent on colonization up to Reconstruction, and the second (also the AP US History section) dedicated to Reconstruction to LBJ's Great Society, the latter being about 25 years in the past at that point.  My APUSH teacher, who died almost a decade later (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/53922788/lillian-m-yeargan) of cancer, had grown up in Arkansas and spoke of missing her first opportunity to vote because poll taxes were still required (they had not been banned at that point) and had not been paid on her behalf.

Poll taxes applied to everyone regardless to race, sex, or creed. They clearly were more difficult to pay if you were poor and most minority group members in that era in the south were poor. They almost surely were done to target the minority groups, but they were not the only ones affected by them .


The grandfather clause, in the original sense of the term, exempted this, although it varied by state, and Arkansas does not appear to be on the list of states that had it.
Many states in the south also disenfranchised poor whites. This led to voter turnout being lower in the 1950s than in the 1870s during reconstruction.
Of course. 

My grandfather lived by the Southern racial hierarchy:  Whites, blacks, poor white trash.  He hired a black man to work in his store, but would never hire anyone considered to be poor white trash.

That said, anyone who says poll taxes were not racist policies is ignorant of how Southern society was structured and how poor white trash were treated as a different race.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bwana39 on February 25, 2023, 06:00:23 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 25, 2023, 04:46:16 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 25, 2023, 03:50:03 PM
Quote from: 1 on February 25, 2023, 03:16:32 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on February 25, 2023, 03:12:43 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 12, 2023, 01:10:37 PM
At my high school, US history was split into two years, with the first spent on colonization up to Reconstruction, and the second (also the AP US History section) dedicated to Reconstruction to LBJ's Great Society, the latter being about 25 years in the past at that point.  My APUSH teacher, who died almost a decade later (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/53922788/lillian-m-yeargan) of cancer, had grown up in Arkansas and spoke of missing her first opportunity to vote because poll taxes were still required (they had not been banned at that point) and had not been paid on her behalf.

Poll taxes applied to everyone regardless to race, sex, or creed. They clearly were more difficult to pay if you were poor and most minority group members in that era in the south were poor. They almost surely were done to target the minority groups, but they were not the only ones affected by them .


The grandfather clause, in the original sense of the term, exempted this, although it varied by state, and Arkansas does not appear to be on the list of states that had it.
Many states in the south also disenfranchised poor whites. This led to voter turnout being lower in the 1950s than in the 1870s during reconstruction.
Of course. 

My grandfather lived by the Southern racial hierarchy:  Whites, blacks, poor white trash.  He hired a black man to work in his store, but would never hire anyone considered to be poor white trash.

That said, anyone who says poll taxes were not racist policies is ignorant of how Southern society was structured and how poor white trash were treated as a different race.

I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't racist, just that it applied as was pointed out affected the poorer whites as well. Ironically, in some places, if you neglected to pay your poll tax, you could pay them on election day (or even get a pass if you were not undesirable.)

I agree PWT were a notch below parts of black society.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on February 25, 2023, 07:59:17 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 21, 2023, 03:39:31 PM
Inuvik, NT has solar noon at 3:00 pm at summer. Inuvik definitely needs to join Pacific Time Zone.

Solar noon is irrelevent at Inuvik in the summer.  From May 25 to July 19, the sun is up all the time.

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/@5983607?month=7


Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on February 25, 2023, 11:49:04 PM
Quote from: bing101 on February 25, 2023, 03:03:43 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinas,_California
Here is another one Salinas, CA is the largest city in Monterey County, CA and not Monterey City proper itself.


Not an uncommon situation, especially if a county seat doesn't remain the main economic center of the county. My own county has a city (Snohomish) that was once county seat but later overshadowed and lost that status; it is now the 12th largest city in the county by population, with less than 1/10th of the population of the largest city and county seat (Everett).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Roadgeekteen on February 26, 2023, 12:50:16 AM
Quote from: Bruce on February 25, 2023, 11:49:04 PM
Quote from: bing101 on February 25, 2023, 03:03:43 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinas,_California
Here is another one Salinas, CA is the largest city in Monterey County, CA and not Monterey City proper itself.


Not an uncommon situation, especially if a county seat doesn't remain the main economic center of the county. My own county has a city (Snohomish) that was once county seat but later overshadowed and lost that status; it is now the 12th largest city in the county by population, with less than 1/10th of the population of the largest city and county seat (Everett).
Norfolk, Massachusetts, is nowhere near the most populous town in Norfolk County.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on March 02, 2023, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: bing101 on February 25, 2023, 03:03:43 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinas,_California
Here is another one Salinas, CA is the largest city in Monterey County, CA and not Monterey City proper itself.

There are a couple of cities in California that are not only not the most populous city in the eponymous county, but aren't even in located the eponymous county:
Sutterville is in Sacramento County, not Sutter
Placerville is in El Dorado County, not Placer
Yuba City is in Sutter County, not Yuba


Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Max Rockatansky on March 02, 2023, 02:28:11 PM
Quote from: michravera on March 02, 2023, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: bing101 on February 25, 2023, 03:03:43 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinas,_California
Here is another one Salinas, CA is the largest city in Monterey County, CA and not Monterey City proper itself.

There are a couple of cities in California that are not only not the most populous city in the eponymous county, but aren't even in located the eponymous county:
Sutterville is in Sacramento County, not Sutter
Placerville is in El Dorado County, not Placer
Yuba City is in Sutter County, not Yuba

San Joaquin is in Fresno County and not San Joaquin County. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tckma on March 08, 2023, 05:05:05 PM
Quote from: michravera on March 02, 2023, 02:26:17 PM
Quote from: bing101 on February 25, 2023, 03:03:43 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinas,_California
Here is another one Salinas, CA is the largest city in Monterey County, CA and not Monterey City proper itself.

There are a couple of cities in California that are not only not the most populous city in the eponymous county, but aren't even in located the eponymous county:
Sutterville is in Sacramento County, not Sutter
Placerville is in El Dorado County, not Placer
Yuba City is in Sutter County, not Yuba

Is this one of those weird things like the county seat of Fairfax County, Virginia is Fairfax City, which is not itself located within Fairfax County?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on March 19, 2023, 10:28:28 AM
We all know municipalities that get across a county line (something that would be against conventional wisdom in Europe). But here is one case, where a city extends some of its powers (notably land surveying) across an international border!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%A4germoos
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 24, 2023, 07:01:10 PM
This seemed like the best thread to leave this:

Final Jeopardy today: Interstate 25 connects these two state capitals with the highest elevations, and runs through 3rd place Denver in between.

One of the guesses was WHAT ARE ALBANY AND BOSTON?

Not kidding.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 24, 2023, 07:58:35 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 24, 2023, 07:01:10 PM
This seemed like the best thread to leave this:

Final Jeopardy today: Interstate 25 connects these two state capitals with the highest elevations, and runs through 3rd place Denver in between.

One of the guesses was WHAT ARE ALBANY AND BOSTON?

Not kidding.

It's wrong on so many levels, but my favorite is that the person guessed a coastal city for "highest elevations".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on April 24, 2023, 08:32:26 PM
Cheyenne and Santa Fe?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kirbykart on April 25, 2023, 07:57:02 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 24, 2023, 07:01:10 PM
This seemed like the best thread to leave this:

Final Jeopardy today: Interstate 25 connects these two state capitals with the highest elevations, and runs through 3rd place Denver in between.

One of the guesses was WHAT ARE ALBANY AND BOSTON?

Not kidding.

FritzOwl ought to make an Interstate that runs from Albany to Boston, going through Denver in between.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on April 25, 2023, 08:37:26 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 24, 2023, 08:32:26 PM
Cheyenne and Santa Fe?

Yes, that's correct.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on April 25, 2023, 09:07:26 AM
My "Is This True?" moment was finding out that Denver wasn't the highest. With all the hype as the Mile High City, I didn't consider that other state capitals could be higher.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on April 25, 2023, 09:10:31 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 25, 2023, 08:37:26 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 24, 2023, 08:32:26 PM
Cheyenne and Santa Fe?

Yes, that's correct.

No, it's not; he didn't phrase it in the form of a question.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on April 25, 2023, 09:27:27 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 25, 2023, 09:10:31 AM

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on April 25, 2023, 08:37:26 AM

Quote from: CtrlAltDel on April 24, 2023, 08:32:26 PM
Cheyenne and Santa Fe?

Yes, that's correct.

No, it's not; he didn't phrase it in the form of a question.

The question mark should count.   :awesomeface:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on April 27, 2023, 03:43:07 AM
I was surprised to find Santa Fe is over 7,000 ft in elevation, I thought it was far lower than that. That belief also applied to Albuquerque. Heck, now I see El Paso has a 4 figure elevation even in metric.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on April 28, 2023, 08:31:01 AM
Basically the entire I-40 corridor from Oklahoma City to Moriarty NM increases in elevation as you go west. It's just so gradual that it looks "flat". That is, until you get to Tijeras Canyon just east of Albuquerque, which is where the Great Plains ends and the mountains of the West begin.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: J N Winkler on April 28, 2023, 10:29:04 PM
I stumbled across this fact while digging up information on Cherry County, Nebraska:  with the exceptions of Kalawao County, Hawaii and Petroleum County, Montana, the 12 least-populous US counties are all in Nebraska or Texas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on May 05, 2023, 11:06:55 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 28, 2023, 10:29:04 PM
I stumbled across this fact while digging up information on Cherry County, Nebraska:  with the exceptions of Kalawao County, Hawaii and Petroleum County, Montana, the 12 least-populous US counties are all in Nebraska or Texas.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-10-least-populated-us-counties.html
in the last 10, there are  1 HI, 1 AK,  1 MT, 3 TX, 4 NE

http://www.davickservices.com/america%27s_100_lonliest_counties.htm
Yakutat county in AK is 12 in this list. Although with 10-11-12 places being close at 633/637/642 population, a single family moving in/out can shuffle the deck.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on May 06, 2023, 09:26:44 PM
Marquette Michigan is in EST even though it is west of Milwaukee. Puerto Vallarta Mexico is in CST despite being on the Pacific Coast.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on May 07, 2023, 07:48:58 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on May 06, 2023, 09:26:44 PM
Puerto Vallarta Mexico is in CST despite being on the Pacific Coast.
Your point is? That Mexico and Central America bend to the east? Chile is the same time zone as Atlantic Canada, despite being on the Pacific Ocean.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on May 07, 2023, 08:28:38 AM
Quote from: GaryV on May 07, 2023, 07:48:58 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on May 06, 2023, 09:26:44 PM
Puerto Vallarta Mexico is in CST despite being on the Pacific Coast.
Your point is? That Mexico and Central America bend to the east? Chile is the same time zone as Atlantic Canada, despite being on the Pacific Ocean.
I thought his point about Central and South America swinging further east than common perception was well-made, despite it being generally known in the niche knowledge of members on here.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on May 07, 2023, 08:58:29 AM
The French Assembly constituencies actually cover most of the World, not only La France and its possessions. Thus, you are actually living in the 1st French overseas constituency in addition to your Congressional district, while I am in the 5th one (although not far from the border with department 64 (Pyrenees Atlantiques)'s 4th constituency). However they are only meaningful to French citizens.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on May 07, 2023, 09:22:29 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on May 07, 2023, 08:58:29 AM
The French Assembly constituencies actually cover most of the World, not only La France and its possessions. Thus, you are actually living in the 1st French overseas constituency in addition to your Congressional district, while I am in the 5th one (although not far from the border with department 64 (Pyrenees Atlantiques)'s 4th constituency). However they are only meaningful to French citizens.
French Citizens Overseas Constituencies, anyway.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on May 08, 2023, 12:54:20 AM
Ever met a fried Frenchman?  :cool:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on May 08, 2023, 03:30:47 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on May 07, 2023, 08:58:29 AM
The French Assembly constituencies actually cover most of the World, not only La France and its possessions. Thus, you are actually living in the 1st French overseas constituency in addition to your Congressional district, while I am in the 5th one (although not far from the border with department 64 (Pyrenees Atlantiques)'s 4th constituency). However they are only meaningful to French citizens.

Not common but also not rare. Italy and Tunisia both have more than a dozen overseas constituencies, while the US Democratic Party holds primaries for voters abroad.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on May 08, 2023, 06:49:39 AM
Quote from: Bruce on May 08, 2023, 03:30:47 AM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on May 07, 2023, 08:58:29 AM
The French Assembly constituencies actually cover most of the World, not only La France and its possessions. Thus, you are actually living in the 1st French overseas constituency in addition to your Congressional district, while I am in the 5th one (although not far from the border with department 64 (Pyrenees Atlantiques)'s 4th constituency). However they are only meaningful to French citizens.

Not common but also not rare. Italy and Tunisia both have more than a dozen overseas constituencies, while the US Democratic Party holds primaries for voters abroad.
Republicans still encourage expats to vote through absentee ballot, despite not having the formal process for expat delegates like Democrats Abroad or whatever it's called.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on May 08, 2023, 08:31:57 AM
Democrats Abroad is only for Presidential primaries, however. All other elections you just vote absentee in whatever constituency you lived in last before going abroad.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on May 10, 2023, 11:03:50 PM
At the peak of the Cold War before the Wall fell there were more than a million Americans living in West Germany, mostly soldiers and their dependents. That was more than 12 states and DC in the 1980 Census.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on May 23, 2023, 12:40:04 PM
Two of the entirety of Vatican City would fit inside the 2.5 mile oval at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on May 23, 2023, 06:24:19 PM
Quote from: GaryV on May 07, 2023, 07:48:58 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on May 06, 2023, 09:26:44 PM
Puerto Vallarta Mexico is in CST despite being on the Pacific Coast.
Your point is? That Mexico and Central America bend to the east? Chile is the same time zone as Atlantic Canada, despite being on the Pacific Ocean.
I know that it's just many would not think of that. Usually when they think Pacific coast they will think PST zone.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on May 23, 2023, 06:37:12 PM
Central America is well known for being thin and is obviously not three time zones apart from one side to the other.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on May 23, 2023, 08:34:13 PM
That CST is year round though, so most of the time they're in line with US Mountain Time. Which they should be - they're almost exactly due south of Denver.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on May 27, 2023, 09:49:45 AM
The Lei Valley, an Italian valley draining to... the North Sea via the Rhine. The only part of Italy draining directly to the Atlantic, as opposed to the Mediterranean Sea or (in several small areas) the Black Sea via the Danube (also unexpected). It also contains a weird border, as Italy ceded some land to Switzerland so that they could build the dam.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 27, 2023, 08:19:53 PM
Had a thought today as I drove to the mountains. The Eisenhower Tunnel is only 50 miles from Denver City limits. Feels like it should be farther.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on May 27, 2023, 08:44:37 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on May 27, 2023, 08:19:53 PM
Had a thought today as I drove to the mountains. The Eisenhower Tunnel is only 50 miles from Denver City limits. Feels like it should be farther.

It only feels farther because of the very reliable traffic along 70...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on May 27, 2023, 09:38:23 PM
Fortunately not today leaving Denver at 4:00 PM.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on June 19, 2023, 12:05:40 PM
The southernmost point of Turkmenistan is further south than entire Continental Europe, and only islands of Greece (such as Crete), as well as Cyprus are further south.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on June 19, 2023, 12:11:08 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on June 19, 2023, 12:05:40 PM
The southernmost point of Turkmenistan is further south than entire Continental Europe, and only islands of Greece (such as Crete), as well as Cyprus are further south.

I couldn't really place Turkmenistan on a map.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on June 19, 2023, 01:09:46 PM


Quote from: 1 on June 19, 2023, 12:11:08 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on June 19, 2023, 12:05:40 PM
The southernmost point of Turkmenistan is further south than entire Continental Europe, and only islands of Greece (such as Crete), as well as Cyprus are further south.

I couldn't really place Turkmenistan on a map.

That sounds like a you problem, not Turkmenistan's. :D

That said, the fact Poiponen pointed out is really not surprising.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on June 19, 2023, 01:17:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 19, 2023, 01:09:46 PM
the fact Poiponen pointed out is really not surprising.

Agreed.  I hardly think conventional wisdom would say Spain reaches farther south than Turkmenistan.

Slightly more surprising might be that Iran reaches farther north than Lisbon, or something like that.  Even then...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on June 19, 2023, 02:39:47 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on June 19, 2023, 12:05:40 PM
The southernmost point of Turkmenistan is further south than the 12 foot 4 (formerly 11 foot 8) bridge in Durham, North Carolina.

Reworded that :D, per this:
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 19, 2021, 03:05:11 PM
One I like: The 12 foot 4 (formerly 11 foot 8) bridge lies at about the same latitude as the Southernmost tip of the Iberian Peninsula. This also means the entirety of continental Europe lies North of the world-famous bridge (some Greek islands, such as Crete, lie further South).

Also, I should note that only parts of Crete and Cyprus are further South than the Southernmost point of Turkmenistan.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on June 19, 2023, 03:24:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 19, 2023, 01:17:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 19, 2023, 01:09:46 PM
the fact Poiponen pointed out is really not surprising.

Agreed.  I hardly think conventional wisdom would say Spain reaches farther south than Turkmenistan.

Slightly more surprising might be that Iran reaches farther north than Lisbon, or something like that.  Even then...
Turkmenistan is a Central Asian country with I was surprised to find that it reaches further south than entire Continental Europe.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on June 19, 2023, 03:46:12 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on June 19, 2023, 03:24:02 PM
I was surprised

apparently
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on June 19, 2023, 04:23:39 PM
I think Turkmenistan as a middle latitude country and Spain, Italy etc. a Southern country, so it is quite a surprise.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on June 19, 2023, 04:32:39 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on June 19, 2023, 04:23:39 PM
I think Turkmenistan as a middle latitude country and Spain, Italy etc. a Southern country, so it is quite a surprise.

*shrug*  I think of Turkmenistan as the southernmost ex-SSR, dominated by desert, and Muslim-majority.  So it isn't a surprise.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on June 19, 2023, 05:53:31 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on June 19, 2023, 03:24:02 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 19, 2023, 01:17:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 19, 2023, 01:09:46 PM
the fact Poiponen pointed out is really not surprising.

Agreed.  I hardly think conventional wisdom would say Spain reaches farther south than Turkmenistan.

Slightly more surprising might be that Iran reaches farther north than Lisbon, or something like that.  Even then...
Turkmenistan is a Central Asian country with I was surprised to find that it reaches further south than entire Continental Europe.
You have a singular point-of-view.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on June 27, 2023, 03:05:52 PM
So the Amazon River divide forms most of the northern boundary of Brazil. Who knew.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzoEwNqWAAILn7N?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on June 27, 2023, 04:26:50 PM
Speaking of South America, the source of the Essequibo River was not established until 2018.

The forests are extremely dense in this region, far from developed infrastructure.

The Essequibo River is a fairly major river in South America, Wikipedia lists it as the world's 53rd largest river by average discharge, and one of the largest in South America that is not part of the Amazon basin.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Essequiborivermap.png/600px-Essequiborivermap.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on June 29, 2023, 09:02:40 PM
Ironwood, MI, has the same longitude as Clinton, IA, and St. Louis, MO.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on June 29, 2023, 10:47:49 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 29, 2023, 09:02:40 PM
Ironwood, MI, has the same longitude as Clinton, IA, and St. Louis, MO.
Would have been better had it been latitude. :D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on June 30, 2023, 04:56:50 AM
I took a trip to Northern Norway this month.

At Grense Jakobselv, you're actually farther east than Kyiv or Istanbul.

(https://i.imgur.com/8qTiSjg.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on June 30, 2023, 11:19:20 AM
Looks like you're farther east than Finland, too, which is mind-blowing.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tmthyvs on June 30, 2023, 01:13:27 PM
Victoria BC is further east than the entirety of the Yukon and further north than St. Johns NL.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 01:26:49 PM
Quote from: Chris on June 30, 2023, 04:56:50 AM
At Grense Jakobselv, you're actually farther east than Kyiv or Istanbul.

Quote from: tmthyvs on June 30, 2023, 01:13:27 PM
Victoria BC is further east than the entirety of the Yukon and further north than St. Johns NL.

Both of these genuinely surprised me to learn.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on June 30, 2023, 05:54:10 PM
Quote from: tmthyvs on June 30, 2023, 01:13:27 PM
Victoria BC is further east than the entirety of the Yukon and further north than St. Johns NL.
That's a good one.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on July 01, 2023, 07:33:56 AM
This is interesting:


The Bouvet Island, a Norwegian overseas territory in Southern Ocean, uses DST in winter. It is "fall forward" and "spring back" there to have same dates as mainland Norway (which is in northern hemisphere).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on July 02, 2023, 01:05:29 PM
But that is only symbolic, as Bouvet Island is not inhabited.

However, it even has its own ISO 3166-1 code (BV), which entitles it to a top level domain and an emoji flag. The latter of which is identical to the one generated by NO as it doesn't have a separate flag.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
A small section of the Texas/New Mexico state line is demarked by the Rio Grande, making it the only place you can cross the Rio Grande and change jurisdictions above a county level and still be in the United States. It is also the only portion of the boundaries of New Mexico that is a natural boundary. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on July 07, 2023, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
A small section of the Texas/New Mexico state line is demarked by the Rio Grande, making it the only place you can cross the Rio Grande and change jurisdictions above a county level and still be in the United States. It is also the only portion of the boundaries of New Mexico that is a natural boundary.

Where the Rio Grande used to be, in any case. I'm no expert here, and I haven't looked anything up, but it does appear that the course of the river has been straightened.

(https://i.imgur.com/pTX6x6g.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 07, 2023, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
A small section of the Texas/New Mexico state line is demarked by the Rio Grande, making it the only place you can cross the Rio Grande and change jurisdictions above a county level and still be in the United States. It is also the only portion of the boundaries of New Mexico that is a natural boundary.

Where the Rio Grande used to be, in any case. I'm no expert here, and I haven't looked anything up, but it does appear that the course of the river has been straightened.

(https://i.imgur.com/pTX6x6g.png)

Yes, where the river used to be, but I was specifically talking about the portion going north from the Texas, New Mexico, Chihuahua tri point south of American Dam which follows the actual river for a small distance.  Side note, the official boundary of Texas specifically calls this portion bordering New Mexico the Rio Grande, even though human created avulsive activities for farming have changed the course of the river. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JKRhodes on July 09, 2023, 11:26:44 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 07, 2023, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
A small section of the Texas/New Mexico state line is demarked by the Rio Grande, making it the only place you can cross the Rio Grande and change jurisdictions above a county level and still be in the United States. It is also the only portion of the boundaries of New Mexico that is a natural boundary.

Where the Rio Grande used to be, in any case. I'm no expert here, and I haven't looked anything up, but it does appear that the course of the river has been straightened.

(https://i.imgur.com/pTX6x6g.png)

Yes, where the river used to be, but I was specifically talking about the portion going north from the Texas, New Mexico, Chihuahua tri point south of American Dam which follows the actual river for a small distance.  Side note, the official boundary of Texas specifically calls this portion bordering New Mexico the Rio Grande, even though human created avulsive activities for farming have changed the course of the river.

An interesting result of suburban development in the area is several homes which straddle the state line. So the kitchen might be in Texas, while the living room is in NM
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KCRoadFan on July 10, 2023, 11:44:18 PM
Given the tendency to group together DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, NYC, and Boston as being the major East Coast cities, to me it came as somewhat of a shock to find out that a line going straight north from DC would pass through New York State...somewhere between Syracuse and Rochester.

It makes sense when you think about it and look at the map, though - north of DC, and especially north of NYC, the coast definitely projects quite a ways eastward. I-95 between Boston and NYC is more east-west than north-south, especially in Connecticut.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KCRoadFan on July 10, 2023, 11:47:57 PM
Quote from: JKRhodes on July 09, 2023, 11:26:44 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 07, 2023, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
A small section of the Texas/New Mexico state line is demarked by the Rio Grande, making it the only place you can cross the Rio Grande and change jurisdictions above a county level and still be in the United States. It is also the only portion of the boundaries of New Mexico that is a natural boundary.

Where the Rio Grande used to be, in any case. I'm no expert here, and I haven't looked anything up, but it does appear that the course of the river has been straightened.

(https://i.imgur.com/pTX6x6g.png)

Yes, where the river used to be, but I was specifically talking about the portion going north from the Texas, New Mexico, Chihuahua tri point south of American Dam which follows the actual river for a small distance.  Side note, the official boundary of Texas specifically calls this portion bordering New Mexico the Rio Grande, even though human created avulsive activities for farming have changed the course of the river.

An interesting result of suburban development in the area is several homes which straddle the state line. So the kitchen might be in Texas, while the living room is in NM

For those houses, where would the postal address - and thus the taxing jurisdiction - officially be? I suppose it would be wherever the street the house faces is located, even if much of the house itself is in another state.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: LilianaUwU on July 10, 2023, 11:57:31 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on July 10, 2023, 11:44:18 PM
I-95 between Boston and NYC is more east-west than north-south, especially in Connecticut.
Speaking of which, I-95, like US 1, was once cross-signed as an east-west route in Connecticut:

(https://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ct/ct_33/s95w.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: The Nature Boy on July 11, 2023, 01:18:42 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on July 10, 2023, 11:44:18 PM
Given the tendency to group together DC, Baltimore, Philadelphia, NYC, and Boston as being the major East Coast cities, to me it came as somewhat of a shock to find out that a line going straight north from DC would pass through New York State...somewhere between Syracuse and Rochester.

It makes sense when you think about it and look at the map, though - north of DC, and especially north of NYC, the coast definitely projects quite a ways eastward. I-95 between Boston and NYC is more east-west than north-south, especially in Connecticut.

Along this same vein, Cleveland is only 1 degree longitude west of Miami. The entirety of Florida is west of Upstate New York.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JKRhodes on July 11, 2023, 07:22:00 AM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on July 10, 2023, 11:47:57 PM
Quote from: JKRhodes on July 09, 2023, 11:26:44 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 07, 2023, 02:13:57 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 07, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
A small section of the Texas/New Mexico state line is demarked by the Rio Grande, making it the only place you can cross the Rio Grande and change jurisdictions above a county level and still be in the United States. It is also the only portion of the boundaries of New Mexico that is a natural boundary.

Where the Rio Grande used to be, in any case. I'm no expert here, and I haven't looked anything up, but it does appear that the course of the river has been straightened.

(https://i.imgur.com/pTX6x6g.png)

Yes, where the river used to be, but I was specifically talking about the portion going north from the Texas, New Mexico, Chihuahua tri point south of American Dam which follows the actual river for a small distance.  Side note, the official boundary of Texas specifically calls this portion bordering New Mexico the Rio Grande, even though human created avulsive activities for farming have changed the course of the river.

An interesting result of suburban development in the area is several homes which straddle the state line. So the kitchen might be in Texas, while the living room is in NM

For those houses, where would the postal address - and thus the taxing jurisdiction - officially be? I suppose it would be wherever the street the house faces is located, even if much of the house itself is in another state.

Don't quote me on this... I studied Zillow listings in the area and it seems to be a case of "majority rule," . i.e. whichever state comprises the larger portion of the lot, regardless of frontage.

That's just NM and Texas.

*edit to clarify: NC/SC happened in 2017*

apparently NC and SC  settled a border dispute and the new line cut thru some people's homes. In that one, address was based kn location of the master bedroom. Some residents had to change drivers licenses and went thru a whole other host of messy changes:

https://abc11.com/north-carolina-nc-south-sc/1896481/

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on July 11, 2023, 09:13:43 AM
DC being closer to Rochester in longitude is a good one, although for us roadgeeks, if you think of US 15, it's not that surprising.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on July 11, 2023, 09:15:41 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 11, 2023, 09:13:43 AM
DC being closer to Rochester in longitude is a good one, although for us roadgeeks, if you think of US 15, it's not that surprising.

I don't think it's that surprising from my area, as it's well known that New York City is west of here (after all, you have to get outside of New England to do so). DC-NYC-Boston is a straight line.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CoreySamson on July 11, 2023, 01:19:14 PM
This is a bit of a minor one, but I found it a little bit disorienting that Little Rock, AR, is closer to the latitudes of Huntsville, AL, and Lawton OK, than it is to other big control cities on I-40 in the area, such as OKC or Memphis. It just goes to show how much of a southward dip I-40 makes to get to Little Rock.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on July 11, 2023, 02:39:06 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 11, 2023, 01:19:14 PM
This is a bit of a minor one, but I found it a little bit disorienting that Little Rock, AR, is closer to the latitudes of Huntsville, AL, and Lawton OK, than it is to other big control cities on I-40 in the area, such as OKC or Memphis. It just goes to show how much of a southward dip I-40 makes to get to Little Rock.

Related to that, Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas. The Arkansas-Missouri border is at 36ºN and the Texas-Oklahoma panhandle border is at 36º30'N.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on July 11, 2023, 02:51:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2023, 02:39:06 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 11, 2023, 01:19:14 PM
This is a bit of a minor one, but I found it a little bit disorienting that Little Rock, AR, is closer to the latitudes of Huntsville, AL, and Lawton OK, than it is to other big control cities on I-40 in the area, such as OKC or Memphis. It just goes to show how much of a southward dip I-40 makes to get to Little Rock.

Related to that, Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas. The Arkansas-Missouri border is at 36ºN and the Texas-Oklahoma panhandle border is at 36º30'N.

False.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5672079,-94.2202117,13.33z?entry=ttu
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 03:08:23 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 11, 2023, 02:51:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2023, 02:39:06 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 11, 2023, 01:19:14 PM
This is a bit of a minor one, but I found it a little bit disorienting that Little Rock, AR, is closer to the latitudes of Huntsville, AL, and Lawton OK, than it is to other big control cities on I-40 in the area, such as OKC or Memphis. It just goes to show how much of a southward dip I-40 makes to get to Little Rock.

Related to that, Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas. The Arkansas-Missouri border is at 36ºN and the Texas-Oklahoma panhandle border is at 36º30'N.

False.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5672079,-94.2202117,13.33z?entry=ttu

He means Arkansas does not reach as far north than the most northern portion of Texas. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on July 11, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 03:08:23 PM
He means Arkansas does not reach as far north than the most northern portion of Texas.

Google Maps says they're in line.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on July 11, 2023, 03:12:16 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 11, 2023, 02:51:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2023, 02:39:06 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 11, 2023, 01:19:14 PM
This is a bit of a minor one, but I found it a little bit disorienting that Little Rock, AR, is closer to the latitudes of Huntsville, AL, and Lawton OK, than it is to other big control cities on I-40 in the area, such as OKC or Memphis. It just goes to show how much of a southward dip I-40 makes to get to Little Rock.

Related to that, Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas. The Arkansas-Missouri border is at 36ºN and the Texas-Oklahoma panhandle border is at 36º30'N.

False.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5672079,-94.2202117,13.33z?entry=ttu
Minor technicality on the Red River oxbows, but point taken.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on July 11, 2023, 03:24:40 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2023, 03:12:16 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 11, 2023, 02:51:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2023, 02:39:06 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 11, 2023, 01:19:14 PM
This is a bit of a minor one, but I found it a little bit disorienting that Little Rock, AR, is closer to the latitudes of Huntsville, AL, and Lawton OK, than it is to other big control cities on I-40 in the area, such as OKC or Memphis. It just goes to show how much of a southward dip I-40 makes to get to Little Rock.

Related to that, Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas. The Arkansas-Missouri border is at 36ºN and the Texas-Oklahoma panhandle border is at 36º30'N.

False.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5672079,-94.2202117,13.33z?entry=ttu
Minor technicality on the Red River oxbows, but point taken.

It's tough to get these things past people here. People on this forum love minor technicalities.  :sombrero:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 03:34:53 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2023, 03:12:16 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 11, 2023, 02:51:08 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 11, 2023, 02:39:06 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 11, 2023, 01:19:14 PM
This is a bit of a minor one, but I found it a little bit disorienting that Little Rock, AR, is closer to the latitudes of Huntsville, AL, and Lawton OK, than it is to other big control cities on I-40 in the area, such as OKC or Memphis. It just goes to show how much of a southward dip I-40 makes to get to Little Rock.

Related to that, Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas. The Arkansas-Missouri border is at 36ºN and the Texas-Oklahoma panhandle border is at 36º30'N.

False.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5672079,-94.2202117,13.33z?entry=ttu
Minor technicality on the Red River oxbows, but point taken.

I didn't read it as draw a line and you will hit Texas and not Arkansas again, making so very small slivers are west of Texas.  I just read it as the most northern part of Arkansas is still south of the most northern part of Texas.  Even with the Oxbow, there is still a panhandle west of that point that still put Arkansas east of that. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on July 11, 2023, 03:37:54 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 03:34:53 PM
I just read it as the most northern part of Arkansas is still south of the most northern part of Texas.

As I said before, they're in line. Both are 36°30'.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MATraveler128 on July 11, 2023, 03:39:07 PM
Pittsburgh is closer to Detroit than it is to Philadelphia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 11, 2023, 03:37:54 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 03:34:53 PM
I just read it as the most northern part of Arkansas is still south of the most northern part of Texas.

As I said before, they're in line. Both are 36°30'.

Right or wrong, that's what I read.  It had northing to do with the data, but the fact still remains that Arkansas is not further north than Texas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on July 11, 2023, 05:16:34 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on July 11, 2023, 03:39:07 PM
Pittsburgh is closer to Detroit than it is to Philadelphia.

This doesn't really surprise me given culturally being more like Detroit/Cleveland/Buffalo than Phuladelphia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MikieTimT on July 11, 2023, 05:17:52 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 11, 2023, 03:37:54 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 03:34:53 PM
I just read it as the most northern part of Arkansas is still south of the most northern part of Texas.

As I said before, they're in line. Both are 36°30'.

Right or wrong, that's what I read.  It had northing to do with the data, but the fact still remains that Arkansas is not further north than Texas.

You can pull up Google Earth, turn on Grid in the View menu (or Ctrl-L for those who'd rather avoid clicking menu options) and confirm quite easily that both northern borders are 36°30'.  Regardless of what someone may have written on the Internet.

I'd wager that Arkansas has a significantly larger population than Texas north of 34°, however.  Start dropping to 33°, and the DFW metro quickly overcomes little ole Arkansas' piddly population.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on July 11, 2023, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on July 11, 2023, 05:17:52 PM
You can pull up Google Earth, turn on Grid in the View menu (or Ctrl-L for those who'd rather avoid clicking menu options) and confirm quite easily that both northern borders are 36°30'. 
And that is not a coincidence. The Missouri Compromise defined that no new state north of 36°30' could be a slave state.

This resulted in the OK panhandle, aka Cimarron Strip. It had belonged to Texas, but had to be excluded so that Texas could have slavery. For several decades it was not part of any territory.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on July 11, 2023, 06:31:23 PM
Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 07:06:42 PM
Quote from: GaryV on July 11, 2023, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on July 11, 2023, 05:17:52 PM
You can pull up Google Earth, turn on Grid in the View menu (or Ctrl-L for those who'd rather avoid clicking menu options) and confirm quite easily that both northern borders are 36°30'. 
And that is not a coincidence. The Missouri Compromise defined that no new state north of 36°30' could be a slave state.

This resulted in the OK panhandle, aka Cimarron Strip. It had belonged to Texas, but had to be excluded so that Texas could have slavery. For several decades it was not part of any territory.

Texas had to give up lands now in Oklahoma, Kansas Colorado New Mexico and Wyoming due to the Missouri Compromise.  Mostly because it wanted to be admitted as a slave state, but also because Texas was in sever debt at the time of annexation so selling that land to the US government helped pay some of the notes.  Yes, the US government had to buy land from Texas because Texas was the only state that was allowed to keep it's lands instead of them be in the public domain.  This is also because Texas had so much debt the US said, "I don't want your debt, but you get to keep your land as a good compromise".

True about the Oklahoma panhandle.  It was also called Beaver.  The Cimmaron Territory.  That's why culturally the panhandle is a bit detached from the rest of Oklahoma. 

The Missouri Compromise did say that no slave state can be north of 36°30' (Missouri's southern border excluding the bootheel), but that doesn't mean it could be further south than that.  For the record, when I read the post, I looked at my map I have on the wall and said, "that statement seems about true".  I didn't go to google maps and turn on the grid so I could nitpick the crap out of it.  I found it interesting because I, like most non-panhandle residing Texans, tend to forget about the panhandle and how far north it reaches.  That's it. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2023, 06:31:23 PM
Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MikieTimT on July 12, 2023, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2023, 06:31:23 PM
Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

It feels further north because of the population density of the panhandle of TX.  Other than Amarillo and Lubbock, if you count Lubbock as panhandle even, there isn't much in the way of city there.  Arkansas' western border is somewhat of a hot mess due to the fact that at the times the border was defined, it was an international border with Mexico creating the border with Texas and an "international" border with treaties with the Choctaw and Cherokee nations defining the two lines drawn "north" and "south" from Fort Smith.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 12, 2023, 05:26:42 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on July 12, 2023, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2023, 06:31:23 PM
Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

It feels further north because of the population density of the panhandle of TX.  Other than Amarillo and Lubbock, if you count Lubbock as panhandle even, there isn't much in the way of city there.  Arkansas' western border is somewhat of a hot mess due to the fact that at the times the border was defined, it was an international border with Mexico creating the border with Texas and an "international" border with treaties with the Choctaw and Cherokee nations defining the two lines drawn "north" and "south" from Fort Smith.

It feels north because you actually travel north from Texarkana to get into Arkansas.  If you continue north on US-71/I-49, Texas is such a long afterthought you could swear it was a distant memory way down south of you, but the reality is, you can drive the entire length of Arkansas at that point and never be further north than the furthest north point of Texas. 

Which brings me to my next fun fact:

Roughly from about Mullberry, Arkansas on I-40 traveling west, you will drive through the rest of Arkansas, across Oklahoma, across Texas and halfway across New Mexico to the east side of Albuquerque while between the same points on I-10 you are just inside Texas. This is a rough eyeball on a map, please don't come at me with exact coordinates.  The concept still remains the same. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on July 12, 2023, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 12, 2023, 05:26:42 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on July 12, 2023, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2023, 06:31:23 PM
Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

It feels further north because of the population density of the panhandle of TX.  Other than Amarillo and Lubbock, if you count Lubbock as panhandle even, there isn't much in the way of city there.  Arkansas' western border is somewhat of a hot mess due to the fact that at the times the border was defined, it was an international border with Mexico creating the border with Texas and an "international" border with treaties with the Choctaw and Cherokee nations defining the two lines drawn "north" and "south" from Fort Smith.

It feels north because you actually travel north from Texarkana to get into Arkansas. 

Oh boy. :D
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: KCRoadFan on July 13, 2023, 12:04:17 AM
The western tip of Virginia is west of Toledo, Ohio, and not that far east of Dayton and Cincinnati.

The western tip of Michigan's Upper Peninsula is west of St. Louis, Memphis, and New Orleans.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 13, 2023, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 12, 2023, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 12, 2023, 05:26:42 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on July 12, 2023, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2023, 06:31:23 PM
Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

It feels further north because of the population density of the panhandle of TX.  Other than Amarillo and Lubbock, if you count Lubbock as panhandle even, there isn't much in the way of city there.  Arkansas' western border is somewhat of a hot mess due to the fact that at the times the border was defined, it was an international border with Mexico creating the border with Texas and an "international" border with treaties with the Choctaw and Cherokee nations defining the two lines drawn "north" and "south" from Fort Smith.

It feels north because you actually travel north from Texarkana to get into Arkansas. 

Oh boy. :D

What is wrong with that statement?  Dive on US-59 to US 71 and you will cross (fully) into Arkansas north of Texarkana.  When I was a kid , my family would take that route several times leaving Marshall, TX to go to Mena, AR and we were heading north.  Yes I-30 crosses into Arkansas heading east-west.  I know that.  Not every person in the state of Texas is leaving from Dallas or on I-30.  There are other towns in Texas besides DFW and Houston. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on July 14, 2023, 02:45:27 PM
The headwaters of the Mississippi River are at Lake Itasca in Minnesota.  About a 1/4 of a mile to a 1/2 mile north of there, the Mississippi River crosses under 210th Street through a culvert at its most western spot, which is about as far west as Katy, TX.  I don't find it particularly mind blowing, but interesting to think of it from a media standpoint since the Mississippi has been the traditional line of demarcation for W vs. K for the first letter in radio and television call letters.  I also find it humorous that the Mississippi River has a road crossing that's a culvert. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on July 14, 2023, 02:58:25 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 14, 2023, 02:45:27 PM
The headwaters of the Mississippi River are at Lake Itasca in Minnesota.  About a 1/4 of a mile to a 1/2 mile north of there, the Mississippi River crosses under 210th Street through a culvert at its most western spot, which is about as far west as Katy, TX.  I don't find it particularly mind blowing, but interesting to think of it from a media standpoint since the Mississippi has been the traditional line of demarcation for W vs. K for the first letter in radio and television call letters.  I also find it humorous that the Mississippi River has a road crossing that's a culvert.
Saw a TikTok of a guy who tried kayaking it all the way from the beginning to end.  There were areas in MN where it looked more like a swamp than river.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on July 14, 2023, 03:01:36 PM
And speaking of kayaking, I was dabbling with the idea of kayaking along the Mississippi around Kentucky Bend.  Couldn't be that far, right?

It's about 18 miles from one side of the land's narrowest point to the other.  At the generally considered kayak speed of 2 mph, that's a 9 hour trip (probably at the very most).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on July 14, 2023, 03:36:14 PM
Quote from: GaryV on July 11, 2023, 06:23:25 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on July 11, 2023, 05:17:52 PM
You can pull up Google Earth, turn on Grid in the View menu (or Ctrl-L for those who'd rather avoid clicking menu options) and confirm quite easily that both northern borders are 36°30'. 
And that is not a coincidence. The Missouri Compromise defined that no new state north of 36°30' could be a slave state.

This resulted in the OK panhandle, aka Cimarron Strip. It had belonged to Texas, but had to be excluded so that Texas could have slavery. For several decades it was not part of any territory.

Oh, thank you for this!  I knew about the Missouri Compromise line but I hadn't connected it to the Oklahoma panhandle before.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Big John on July 14, 2023, 04:18:44 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 14, 2023, 02:45:27 PM
The headwaters of the Mississippi River are at Lake Itasca in Minnesota.  About a 1/4 of a mile to a 1/2 mile north of there, the Mississippi River crosses under 210th Street through a culvert at its most western spot, which is about as far west as Katy, TX.  I don't find it particularly mind blowing, but interesting to think of it from a media standpoint since the Mississippi has been the traditional line of demarcation for W vs. K for the first letter in radio and television call letters.  I also find it humorous that the Mississippi River has a road crossing that's a culvert. 
That is the current demarcation line.  The original demarcation line was the eastern borders of Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on July 14, 2023, 04:44:04 PM
Indonesia east-to-west is the same distance as Canada coast-to-coast (to St. John's): 5,100 kilometers.

The island of Sumatra along its axis is only slightly shorter than from San Diego to Canada.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on July 26, 2023, 07:37:51 PM
There is a small hunk of Kansas that exists east of the common land-based border between Missouri and Kansas. That border extends to the confluence of the Missouri and Kansas Rivers, from which point northward, the Missouri River forms the border.

Because the river follows a path above that confluence that bends farther east, a good bit of Wyandotte County lies to the east of that southern straight-line portion of the border. So is Kansas east of Arkansas?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on July 28, 2023, 01:14:12 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on July 12, 2023, 03:01:56 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on July 11, 2023, 07:08:36 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 11, 2023, 06:31:23 PM
Even if the AR-TX border were straight lines rather than a river boundary, I don't know how the sentence "Arkansas lies wholly EAST of Texas" could evaluate to true. Foreman AR is clearly west of Texarkana TX.

I didn't really get it either, but realize the sentence was worded poorly, extrapolated the correct meaning (mainly being Arkansas feels further north than Texas, but it isn't), and then felt entertained by the fact.

It feels further north because of the population density of the panhandle of TX.  Other than Amarillo and Lubbock, if you count Lubbock as panhandle even, there isn't much in the way of city there.  Arkansas' western border is somewhat of a hot mess due to the fact that at the times the border was defined, it was an international border with Mexico creating the border with Texas and an "international" border with treaties with the Choctaw and Cherokee nations defining the two lines drawn "north" and "south" from Fort Smith.

Plus the Choctaw line itself was the subject of a long history of disputes over how to define it and then where it actually was after a definition was finally settled on. The original surveyor was probably bribed or otherwise threatened into drawing a line to advantage white Arkansas settlers at the expense of the Choctaws, for which the Choctaws were compensated by the federal government over 40 years later.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: index on August 06, 2023, 03:17:04 PM
Every Murfreesboro in the US is less than a 100-mile drive from a Nashville.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on August 06, 2023, 06:39:18 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on July 26, 2023, 07:37:51 PM
There is a small hunk of Kansas that exists east of the common land-based border between Missouri and Kansas. That border extends to the confluence of the Missouri and Kansas Rivers, from which point northward, the Missouri River forms the border.

Because the river follows a path above that confluence that bends farther east, a good bit of Wyandotte County lies to the east of that southern straight-line portion of the border. So is Kansas east of Arkansas?

The portion that you have in mind isn't really as big as your post implies it to be–it basically is the General Motors Fairfax Assembly Plant and that's it. So a big piece of land in on a human scale, but only a fraction of Wyandotte County's area (and an even smaller fraction of the state of Kansas).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on August 06, 2023, 07:17:13 PM
Didn't intend to imply any size at all. I said "a small hunk of Kansas" and "a good bit of Wyandotte County," which is all relative.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on August 21, 2023, 03:04:34 PM
I found this out some days ago:


The northernmost point of New Zealand is further north than the southernmost point of South Africa, meaning that there is a part of New Zealand further north than a part of South Africa.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on August 21, 2023, 03:06:28 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on August 21, 2023, 03:04:34 PM
I found this out some days ago:


The northernmost point of New Zealand is further north than the southernmost point of South Africa, meaning that there is a part of New Zealand further north than a part of South Africa.

Expected. I've always imagined them to be about equal in latitude.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on August 21, 2023, 03:10:31 PM
Quote from: 1 on August 21, 2023, 03:06:28 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on August 21, 2023, 03:04:34 PM
I found this out some days ago:


The northernmost point of New Zealand is further north than the southernmost point of South Africa, meaning that there is a part of New Zealand further north than a part of South Africa.

Expected. I've always imagined them to be about equal in latitude.
Do any of you have imagined Europe to be further south than it actually is?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jlam on August 21, 2023, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on August 21, 2023, 03:10:31 PM
Do any of you have imagined Europe to be further south than it actually is?
Literally everybody. I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere else in this very thread.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thspfc on August 22, 2023, 04:06:03 AM
Quote from: jlam on August 21, 2023, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on August 21, 2023, 03:10:31 PM
Do any of you have imagined Europe to be further south than it actually is?
Literally everybody. I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere else in this very thread.
I'm fully aware that Europe is on average further north than the US, but it still seems impossible, especially considering the climate and topography. There are literally palm trees in London (not a lot of them and they're not native, but they survive). At the same latitude as Canadian wilderness.

Along those lines, it's also weird that North Dakota is further north than almost all of Wisconsin, and if you drew a line directly west from Madison, that line would run just 3 miles north of the South Dakota/Nebraska border. The topography of the Dakotas is more similar to Illinois or Iowa than it is to Wisconsin or eastern Minnesota.

One more: not sure if anyone else finds this weird, but Milwaukee is directly across the lake from Grand Rapids. I always thought of WI and the lower peninsula being level with each other because they're so similar topographically, and Grand Rapids being in central Michigan.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on August 22, 2023, 05:14:54 AM
Quote from: jlam on August 21, 2023, 09:37:42 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on August 21, 2023, 03:10:31 PM
Do any of you have imagined Europe to be further south than it actually is?
Literally everybody. I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere else in this very thread.

This goes both ways. New York is at the same latitude as Madrid while in people's mind it's more like London.

The 49th parallel is similar to Paris.

Southern Scandinavia doesn't always get a longer lasting snow cover in the winter, while being at the same latitude as the northern reaches of the Canadian provinces.

Another interesting feature of Norway are so-called 'tropical nights', where temperatures don't drop below 20°C (68°F). This can occur very far north, this month it occurred in Hammerfest which is at 70°40N, similar to Prudhoe Bay or northern Nunavut.

These tropical nights occur fairly regularly north of the arctic circle in Norway. The sun doesn't set so if it's sunny it stays warm overnight. Especially in valleys but also along the coast if there is no sea breeze.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on August 22, 2023, 09:58:13 AM
I thought this map was interesting. The closest foreign country to every spot in the 50 states.

(https://i.postimg.cc/bw7pqh6X/20230819-070340.jpg)

And then for the populated territories:
Puerto Rico split with U.K. and Dominican Republic
U.S. Virgin Islands is all U.K.
American Samoa is Samoa
Guam & Northern Marianas Islands are Micronesia

I think it's interesting that central Alabama is closer to Canada than any other country, and I didn't really realize that Mobile would be closest to Cuba.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on August 22, 2023, 10:18:20 AM
I just checked Bermuda. It's about 75 miles too far out to be the closest on the Outer Banks.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: formulanone on August 22, 2023, 10:38:02 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on August 22, 2023, 09:58:13 AM
I thought this map was interesting. The closest foreign country to every spot in the 50 states.

(https://i.postimg.cc/bw7pqh6X/20230819-070340.jpg)

And then for the territories:
Puerto Rico split with U.K. and Dominican Republic
U.S. Virgin Islands is all U.K.
American Samoa is Samoa
Guam & Northern Marianas Islands are Micronesia

I think it's interesting that central Alabama is closer to Canada than any other country, and I didn't really realize that Mobile would be closest to Cuba.

Weird new marketing angle for Alabama.travel now available...

A few weeks ago, I discovered there's only a 10 mile difference in a drive from my home to Quebec's borders and Tamaulipas. Obviously, the transit through Detroit/Windsor is closer but I'd never been to Quebec, so it was an interesting exercise. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MATraveler128 on August 22, 2023, 10:51:21 AM
I've always found it interesting that the southernmost tip of Canada is at the same latitude as California.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Chris on August 22, 2023, 12:39:02 PM
St. John's, Newfoundland is closer to both Algiers and Dakar than it is to Vancouver.

In fact, the range of 5,000 kilometers to Vancouver also equates the distance of St. John's to Brazil, Panama, Senegal and Mali.

(https://i.imgur.com/DKE2T6A.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on August 22, 2023, 02:01:31 PM
I think the U.K. examples above take into account Bermuda and the British Virgin Islands, which are still overseas territories.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: ethanhopkin14 on August 22, 2023, 02:22:47 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on August 22, 2023, 10:51:21 AM
I've always found it interesting that the southernmost tip of Canada is at the same latitude as California.

And further south than parts of Nevada and Utah. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on August 22, 2023, 02:31:16 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on August 22, 2023, 02:01:31 PM
I think the U.K. examples above take into account Bermuda and the British Virgin Islands, which are still overseas territories.

For the territories I listed, yeah. Bermuda is never the closest, but BVI is closest to parts of Puerto Rico and all of USVI.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thspfc on August 22, 2023, 04:18:08 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on August 22, 2023, 10:51:21 AM
I've always found it interesting that the southernmost tip of Canada is at the same latitude as California.
If I was to take the fastest route from home to the Canadian border, my first ~80 miles of driving would be due south.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on August 23, 2023, 08:51:17 AM
Regarding to sunrise and sunset time oddities:
The westernmost part of Russia near the Finnish border, has sunrise and sunset times off the normal. They are in UTC+3, but should be in UTC+2 by longitude, and some are even west of 30'E, the central meridian of UTC+2. Thus, may places, including St. Petersburg, have sunrise after 10:00 at winter solstice.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: pianocello on August 26, 2023, 09:58:32 AM
Quote from: thspfc on August 22, 2023, 04:06:03 AM
One more: not sure if anyone else finds this weird, but Milwaukee is directly across the lake from Grand Rapids. I always thought of WI and the lower peninsula being level with each other because they're so similar topographically, and Grand Rapids being in central Michigan.

I think knowing that a ferry goes from Milwaukee to Muskegon (the "port city" of GR) pushes this closer to conventional wisdom.

Although I bet the weirdness is more common with people that aren't super familiar with the Chicago area. After all, the whole Chicagoland region is basically just the NE corner of Illinois and the NW corner of Indiana, but the northern boundaries of the two states are about 50 miles apart.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dvferyance on August 26, 2023, 06:06:15 PM
Quote from: thspfc on October 19, 2022, 10:33:54 PM
Ironwood, MI is 75 miles closer to Minneapolis than it is to the Mackinac Bridge. It's also only 75 miles closer to Ohio than it is to Montana.
The first isn't that surprising since Ironwood is only about 100 miles from Duluth.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on August 26, 2023, 09:30:46 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on November 29, 2015, 03:15:41 PM
Pennsylvania reaches further north than Connecticut.  This always felt counterintuitive to me.

Relatedly, PA is either due south or due west of NY depending on where you are in NY. From NYC, it's not only west, but also west of Jersey - in other words, it might as well be another planet. But from much of upstate NY, it's 1-2 hours due south, so to us, Scranton and the I-380/I-80 corridor through the Poconos could be part of a trip to NYC and feel distinctly within NYC's sphere of influence relative to home. Just goes to show how far apart/culturally distinct upstate NY is from NYC.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on August 26, 2023, 09:35:55 PM
Since this came up in another thread, Baltimore and Philadelphia are nearly equidistant from Ocean City, MD. (147 miles vs 151 miles)

Baltimore is a bit closer as the crow flies, but it's comparable by road because US 50 takes an indirect routing over the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and south to Cambridge before turning east.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bm7 on August 27, 2023, 02:18:43 AM
Tokyo is the same distance from Mumbai as it is from Greenland.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on August 27, 2023, 08:34:59 AM
Quote from: bm7 on August 27, 2023, 02:18:43 AM
Tokyo is the same distance from Mumbai as it is from Greenland.
How are you measuring this?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on August 27, 2023, 12:47:14 PM
Probably the same way I determined Hamlin, Maine is closer to Cape Touriñan (Westernmost point in mainland Spain) than to Point Conception in California: by using the measurement tool in Google Maps.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on August 27, 2023, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 27, 2023, 08:34:59 AM
Quote from: bm7 on August 27, 2023, 02:18:43 AM

Tokyo is the same distance from Mumbai as it is from Greenland.

How are you measuring this?

Not to speak for bm7, but it's relatively easy to do on Google Earth.

(https://i.imgur.com/aYGesvj.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on August 27, 2023, 01:54:16 PM
Average people in their daily lives think of the Earth as a two-dimensional object when it comes from going to points A to B (which isn't helped by your standard maps that are unable to account for 3D).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bm7 on August 27, 2023, 10:02:54 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on August 27, 2023, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: Rothman on August 27, 2023, 08:34:59 AM
Quote from: bm7 on August 27, 2023, 02:18:43 AM

Tokyo is the same distance from Mumbai as it is from Greenland.

How are you measuring this?

Not to speak for bm7, but it's relatively easy to do on Google Earth.

Yes, that's what I did.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on September 15, 2023, 11:19:41 AM
Do you know that in low latitudes which use DST, latest sunrise actually happens on day before DST ends, rather than around winter solstice? This is one of the things beacuse of which low latitudes should not use DST.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: SP Cook on September 15, 2023, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 15, 2023, 11:19:41 AM
of which low latitudes should not use DST.

No latitude should use DST.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on September 15, 2023, 11:59:09 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on September 15, 2023, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 15, 2023, 11:19:41 AM
of which low latitudes should not use DST.

No latitude should use DST.
I have used to DST when looking sunrise and sunset times. In Helsinki sunrise and sunset at 3:54/22:50 looks more normal than its DST-less equivalent 2:54/21:50. But DST is not good for Miami's latitude (25 degrees north).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on September 15, 2023, 12:10:41 PM
Stop it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on September 15, 2023, 12:25:03 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 15, 2023, 11:19:41 AM
... latest sunrise actually happens on day before DST ends ...

That's the point of DST. To move sunrise and sunset later on the clock.

I'm not going to get into the banned topic of whether that's a good idea or not.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on October 01, 2023, 11:33:19 AM

Dang I didn't think LA would be on top of the list for most dense city in the US. But I was going to guess New York and Chicago to be in the top 3 for urban density before San Francisco and San Jose the way the video was going.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on October 02, 2023, 01:11:18 PM
Quote from: bing101 on October 01, 2023, 11:33:19 AM

Dang I didn't think LA would be on top of the list for most dense city in the US. But I was going to guess New York and Chicago to be in the top 3 for urban density before San Francisco and San Jose the way the video was going.



Might as well have said, "I screwed with the stats until they came up with a YouTube-able result."
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on October 02, 2023, 01:33:53 PM
In Fairbanks in every summer, are street lamps off 24/7 every day due to long (22 hours) daylight?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on October 02, 2023, 02:30:45 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 02, 2023, 01:33:53 PM
In Fairbanks in every summer, are street lamps off 24/7 every day due to long (22 hours) daylight?
Fairbanks is only 4 degrees further north than Helsinki. Are street lights in Finland turned off 24/7 in the summer?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on October 02, 2023, 02:35:03 PM
Quote from: GaryV on October 02, 2023, 02:30:45 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 02, 2023, 01:33:53 PM
In Fairbanks in every summer, are street lamps off 24/7 every day due to long (22 hours) daylight?
Fairbanks is only 4 degrees further north than Helsinki. Are street lights in Finland turned off 24/7 in the summer?
Not in Helsinki, but in Kuopio (slightly under 2 degrees further north than Helsinki) and Oulu (about 10 degree minutes further north than Fairbanks), which neither have midnight sun and see at least some twilight every night. Of course, in cities that see midnight sun (such as Inuvik in North America and Tromso and Rovaniemi in Europe), lamps are off 24/7. In contrast, are street lamps on 24/7 in cities that see polar night near winter solstice? Does that happen in Inuvik?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 02, 2023, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13-du-Ha!-Ha! on October 02, 2023, 02:35:03 PM
Of course, in cities that see midnight sun (such as Inuvik in North America ...), lamps are off 24/7.

Does that happen in Inuvik?

You just said it does.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 02, 2023, 03:51:16 PM
If you think Google Maps has an error off the coast of Nova Scotia (it looks like they forgot a gap in the ocean), remember this island (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sable_Island) exists.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 06, 2023, 01:06:16 PM
I'm sure some have seen this before, but you could sail in a straight line from Cold Bay, AK to Somnath, Gujarat, India and never hit land.

(https://preview.redd.it/hxc0ykux4wp91.png?auto=webp&s=27b8e4e061827681d9910aff3322a2dd2bc47c02)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on October 06, 2023, 02:57:03 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 06, 2023, 01:06:16 PM
I'm sure some have seen this before, but you could sail in a straight line from Cold Bay, AK to Somnath, Gujarat, India and never hit land.

(https://preview.redd.it/hxc0ykux4wp91.png?auto=webp&s=27b8e4e061827681d9910aff3322a2dd2bc47c02)

Okay... I'll bite... in what sense is that a straight line?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 06, 2023, 03:06:50 PM
It's definitely straight, although it's the long way around. Keep in mind that the Earth is a sphere.

Google distance measure tool will give you an idea of what "straight" actually means on these types of maps. You'll have to set one intermediate point because it's the long way around, though.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Evan_Th on October 06, 2023, 03:08:19 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 06, 2023, 02:57:03 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 06, 2023, 01:06:16 PM
I'm sure some have seen this before, but you could sail in a straight line from Cold Bay, AK to Somnath, Gujarat, India and never hit land.

(https://preview.redd.it/hxc0ykux4wp91.png?auto=webp&s=27b8e4e061827681d9910aff3322a2dd2bc47c02)

Okay... I'll bite... in what sense is that a straight line?

It's a great circle - the closest thing to a straight line - on a globe.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: LilianaUwU on October 06, 2023, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 06, 2023, 01:06:16 PM
I'm sure some have seen this before, but you could sail in a straight line from Cold Bay, AK to Somnath, Gujarat, India and never hit land.
Now, why would I do that?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 06, 2023, 03:26:54 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 06, 2023, 02:57:03 PM
Okay... I'll bite... in what sense is that a straight line?

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 06, 2023, 03:29:16 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on October 06, 2023, 03:11:26 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on October 06, 2023, 01:06:16 PM
I'm sure some have seen this before, but you could sail in a straight line from Cold Bay, AK to Somnath, Gujarat, India and never hit land.
Now, why would I do that?

Because you can.

Looks like the longest straight line over water on Earth is actually from Pakistan to the Kamchatka Peninsula in Russia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tmoore952 on October 06, 2023, 04:17:55 PM
It's the same reason why, when you fly from DC to London, that you fly NNE at first, going right near NYC (on one of my trips I went right over Manhattan), up over Maine, and then Newfoundland before crossing the ocean. It's why the people flying from Europe to U.S. on 9/11 were grounded in Gander, Newfoundland.

If you were to look at a flat map and draw a straight line between DC and London, you'd go right near Cape May NJ, and start crossing the ocean there. But that is not the shortest route.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 06, 2023, 04:21:48 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 06, 2023, 04:17:55 PM
It's the same reason why, when you fly from DC to London ...

It's why, when I flew from Chicago to Warsaw, I could look out the airplane window at the Greenland ice sheet.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 06, 2023, 04:28:10 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 06, 2023, 04:21:48 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 06, 2023, 04:17:55 PM
It's the same reason why, when you fly from DC to London ...

It's why, when I flew from Chicago to Warsaw, I could look out the airplane window at the Greenland ice sheet.

Interestingly enough, with all the flying I've done, the northernmost I've ever been in the air is still basically equal to the northernmost I've been on land -- in Svalbard. None of the great circle routes for any of my trans-Pacific or trans-Atlantic flights have gotten closer than that to the North Pole.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tmoore952 on October 06, 2023, 06:04:51 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 06, 2023, 04:21:48 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 06, 2023, 04:17:55 PM
It's the same reason why, when you fly from DC to London ...

It's why, when I flew from Chicago to Warsaw, I could look out the airplane window at the Greenland ice sheet.

I took a picture of that ice sheet when I flew from DC to Iceland in 2006. My favorite picture (of the handful) that I have taken from a plane.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on October 06, 2023, 08:38:27 PM
That doesn't look like the shortest route.  Cold Bay and Somnath are both in the northern hemisphere, so the great circle route between them will head toward the north, not swing way south over the South Atlantic.  The shortest route starting from Cold Bay is across the North Pacific, Siberia, Tibet, to India.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=cdb-IXK

Either way great circle routes are not straight - they follow the surface of sphere, and they require continuous adjustment of your heading.

(or just take a look at your globe)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 06, 2023, 08:39:53 PM
It's a great circle line going the long way, i.e. 180° opposite the shortest route.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on October 06, 2023, 09:00:00 PM
So it is NOT really a great circle, but rather the opposite of a great circle.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on October 07, 2023, 03:12:26 AM
Quote from: kkt on October 06, 2023, 09:00:00 PM
So it is NOT really a great circle, but rather the opposite of a great circle.

A detestable circle.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on October 07, 2023, 04:11:22 AM
Quote from: kkt on October 06, 2023, 08:38:27 PM
Either way great circle routes are not straight - they follow the surface of sphere, and they require continuous adjustment of your heading.

(or just take a look at your globe)

They are in fact straight. It's going straight East-West what requires constant adjustment, as going straight will eventually veer towards the equator unless already there. Had the USA/Canada border West of the Lake of the Woods been perfectly adjusted to the 49th Parallel North, it would be a long arc.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CtrlAltDel on October 07, 2023, 10:38:11 AM
Quote from: kkt on October 06, 2023, 08:38:27 PM
Either way great circle routes are not straight - they follow the surface of sphere, and they require continuous adjustment of your heading.

It is true that a great circle is not a straight line from a Euclidean perspective, where all the straight lines connecting two points on the sphere would cut inside it.

Rather, a great circle is a straight line with respect to the surface of a sphere, in that it is a route that does not require turning except, of course, with respect to that surface (which in practical terms is done by gravity). That is, if you were to mark a great circle on a perfect sphere and then mark another line one foot to the left and another one foot to the right, both lines would be exactly the same length.

The continuous adjustment of the heading that comes with following a great circle (except for those coinciding with the equator or any meridian) does not necessitate turning on the sphere, but following a constant heading does. In particular, if you were to mark an east-west line at say 45 degrees north latitude on a perfect sphere and then mark another line one foot to the left and another one foot to the right, the more northern of the lines would be shorter than the more southern. This might be seen when following the east-west line about 10 feet from the south pole, which would be the same as any circle ten feet in radius anywhere else on the sphere.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: DTComposer on October 07, 2023, 12:09:45 PM
Quote from: bing101 on October 01, 2023, 11:33:19 AM
Dang I didn't think LA would be on top of the list for most dense city in the US.

But that's the whole point of the video - they're going by urban areas, not cities. The city of New York is far more dense than the city of Los Angeles. But California's suburban-style development is much more dense then that in the east or south.

Quote from: Rothman on October 02, 2023, 01:11:18 PMMight as well have said, "I screwed with the stats until they came up with a YouTube-able result."

This is all easily found Census Bureau data, so I don't think anybody was screwing with the stats - it just shows that places like the Los Angeles area, which has long been perceived as a poster child for urban sprawl, actually has much less actual sprawl than many East Coast regions.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on October 08, 2023, 12:11:38 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 02, 2023, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13-du-Ha!-Ha! on October 02, 2023, 02:35:03 PM
Of course, in cities that see midnight sun (such as Inuvik in North America ...), lamps are off 24/7.

Does that happen in Inuvik?

You just said it does.
I meant that does the 24/7 on lamps during polar night occur in Inuvik.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 09, 2023, 11:55:37 AM
Quote from: 1 on October 06, 2023, 08:39:53 PM
It's a great circle line going the long way, i.e. 180° opposite the shortest route.

Quote from: kkt on October 06, 2023, 09:00:00 PM
So it is NOT really a great circle, but rather the opposite of a great circle.

What definition of 'great circle' are you going by, that requires it to be the shortest distance between two points on the globe?

A great circle is the intersection of a plane and a sphere (or, in the case of planet Earth, I suppose, an oblate spheroid).  Technically, you'd have to plot a path that circumnavigates the entire globe back to your starting point to fit the true definition of 'great circle'.  But, in common parlance, a portion of that path can also be described as a great circle:  who, though, says it has to be the 'shorter half'?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 09, 2023, 11:58:43 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 08, 2023, 12:11:38 PM
I meant that does the 24/7 on lamps during polar night occur in Inuvik.

Sorry, I misread your question.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on October 12, 2023, 11:05:35 AM
Here is one: The two population centers of Canada — Toronto and Montreal — all are contained within the western and eastern extents of the State of New York.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 11:21:31 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on October 12, 2023, 11:05:35 AM
Here is one: The two population centers of Canada — Toronto and Montreal — all are contained within the western and eastern extents of the State of New York.

In fact to get from much of the Niagara Peninsula to Montreal, it can be faster to take I-90/I-81 (depending on traffic conditions and your tolerance for tolls; it's not usually faster than 407, but almost always faster than QEW/401 during daytime hours).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 11:37:27 AM
Denmark reaches futher south than Scotland. The difference is 3 degree minutes.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 11:26:15 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on October 12, 2023, 11:05:35 AM
Here is one: The two population centers of Canada — Toronto and Montreal — all are contained within the western and eastern extents of the State of New York.

Toronto is easy to see.

Even so, a northward extension of the NY/PA line skims the western side of the Toronto area, passing through Burlington and Brampton while excluding Hamilton.


Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 11:26:15 AM
From my experience driving in that area up I-87 and into Canada, the Montreal part must be true only if you include Long Island (which is part of NY State, I'm not arguing that). If you go due south from eastern Montreal, you would enter Vermont first.

Sure, there are parts of the Montreal metro area where you'd have to include Long Island. But the easternmost point(s) of Montreal city limits appear to line up almost perfectly with I-87 at Champlain. If anything, it's actually bit west of there... and that still leaves over 5 miles to spare between I-87 and the NY/VT/QC tri-point.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 12, 2023, 12:27:13 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 11:37:27 AM
Denmark reaches futher south than Scotland. The difference is 3 degree minutes.

That actually doesn't surprise me at all.  In fact, Scotland reaching farther south than Denmark would have surprised me, for some reason.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 12:34:18 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 11:26:15 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on October 12, 2023, 11:05:35 AM
Here is one: The two population centers of Canada — Toronto and Montreal — all are contained within the western and eastern extents of the State of New York.

Toronto is easy to see.

Even so, a northward extension of the NY/PA line skims the western side of the Toronto area, passing through Burlington and Brampton while excluding Hamilton.


Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 11:26:15 AM
From my experience driving in that area up I-87 and into Canada, the Montreal part must be true only if you include Long Island (which is part of NY State, I'm not arguing that). If you go due south from eastern Montreal, you would enter Vermont first.

Sure, there are parts of the Montreal metro area where you'd have to include Long Island. But the easternmost point(s) of Montreal city limits appear to line up almost perfectly with I-87 at Champlain. If anything, it's actually bit west of there... and that still leaves over 5 miles to spare between I-87 and the NY/VT/QC tri-point.

Not sure if you noticed, but I deleted the post you are quoting about 20-30 minutes after I had made it.

I looked at GoogleMaps and realized that what I wrote was not as clear cut as I thought, so I deleted it. My thinking was that the Canadian expressway that I-87 becomes goes due north, but when I looked at a map, the expressway actually bends a bit to the west, so the whole city of Montreal is more west than I thought.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 12:35:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 12, 2023, 12:27:13 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 11:37:27 AM
Denmark reaches futher south than Scotland. The difference is 3 degree minutes.

That actually doesn't surprise me at all.  In fact, Scotland reaching farther south than Denmark would have surprised me, for some reason.
And Alaska's southernmost point is only 2 degree minutes north of Scotland's southernmost point.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 12, 2023, 12:37:22 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 12:35:05 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 12, 2023, 12:27:13 PM

Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 11:37:27 AM
Denmark reaches futher south than Scotland. The difference is 3 degree minutes.

That actually doesn't surprise me at all.  In fact, Scotland reaching farther south than Denmark would have surprised me, for some reason.

And Alaska's southernmost point is only 2 degree minutes north of Scotland's southernmost point.

Now this one does surprise me.  Even if you ignore the Aleutian islands, it's still not that big of a difference.  Wow.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 12, 2023, 12:57:51 PM
The easternmost and westernmost countries in the world are Russia and Fiji, which both have land on the 180th meridian.

Between 10:00 and 11:59 UTC every day, people on Earth experience three different dates.
Example - at 10:30 am in London on Friday, it's 11:30 pm on Thursday in American Samoa and 12:30 AM on Saturday on Kiritimati Island in Kiribati. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on October 12, 2023, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 12:34:18 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 11:26:15 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on October 12, 2023, 11:05:35 AM
Here is one: The two population centers of Canada — Toronto and Montreal — all are contained within the western and eastern extents of the State of New York.

Toronto is easy to see.

Even so, a northward extension of the NY/PA line skims the western side of the Toronto area, passing through Burlington and Brampton while excluding Hamilton.


Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 11:26:15 AM
From my experience driving in that area up I-87 and into Canada, the Montreal part must be true only if you include Long Island (which is part of NY State, I'm not arguing that). If you go due south from eastern Montreal, you would enter Vermont first.

Sure, there are parts of the Montreal metro area where you'd have to include Long Island. But the easternmost point(s) of Montreal city limits appear to line up almost perfectly with I-87 at Champlain. If anything, it's actually bit west of there... and that still leaves over 5 miles to spare between I-87 and the NY/VT/QC tri-point.

Not sure if you noticed, but I deleted the post you are quoting about 20-30 minutes after I had made it.

I looked at GoogleMaps and realized that what I wrote was not as clear cut as I thought, so I deleted it. My thinking was that the Canadian expressway that I-87 becomes goes due north, but when I looked at a map, the expressway actually bends a bit to the west, so the whole city of Montreal is more west than I thought.
Anything west of A-30 (which I would consider pretty much all of the Montréal area to be; Montréal itself doesn't extend to the mainland) is west of VT.  The key thing is that Canada (southern Ontario aside) doesn't tend to sprawl as much as the US, so those smaller nearby communities that would just have been subsumed into the bigger metro area in the US (or near Toronto) are still distinct places.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 12:34:18 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 11:26:15 AM
...
From my experience driving in that area up I-87 and into Canada, the Montreal part must be true only if you include Long Island (which is part of NY State, I'm not arguing that). If you go due south from eastern Montreal, you would enter Vermont first.

Sure, there are parts of the Montreal metro area where you'd have to include Long Island. But the easternmost point(s) of Montreal city limits appear to line up almost perfectly with I-87 at Champlain. If anything, it's actually bit west of there... and that still leaves over 5 miles to spare between I-87 and the NY/VT/QC tri-point.

Not sure if you noticed, but I deleted the post you are quoting about 20-30 minutes after I had made it.

I looked at GoogleMaps and realized that what I wrote was not as clear cut as I thought, so I deleted it. My thinking was that the Canadian expressway that I-87 becomes goes due north, but when I looked at a map, the expressway actually bends a bit to the west, so the whole city of Montreal is more west than I thought.

Whoops, sorry I did not notice that. I must have already had it quoted, and did not look back to see it had been deleted. Understood though!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 01:14:13 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 12, 2023, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 12:34:18 PM
...
I looked at GoogleMaps and realized that what I wrote was not as clear cut as I thought, so I deleted it. My thinking was that the Canadian expressway that I-87 becomes goes due north, but when I looked at a map, the expressway actually bends a bit to the west, so the whole city of Montreal is more west than I thought.
Anything west of A-30 (which I would consider pretty much all of the Montréal area to be; Montréal itself doesn't extend to the mainland) is west of VT.  The key thing is that Canada (southern Ontario aside) doesn't tend to sprawl as much as the US, so those smaller nearby communities that would just have been subsumed into the bigger metro area in the US (or near Toronto) are still distinct places.

Definitely a fair point, but I would include Toronto in the category of not sprawling as much as the US. It's so huge that it can feel sprawling, but on a block level the suburban areas are still way more compact than US suburbs. Even the outlying suburbs such as Milton, Vaughan and Richmond Hill have new homes built on small properties with hardly any yard to speak of, and the transition from those areas to rural ones is very abrupt (in no small part due to the Greenbelt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenbelt_(Golden_Horseshoe))). I'd even go so far as to say "exurban" areas don't really exist, and to the extent they do, they're very limited and usually fall closer to either suburban or rural.

Canadians in general seem to be impressed by how sprawling suburbs in the US are, and vice versa. To us, a house on an acre property is pretty typical for an outlying suburb, but to them, that's a massive property that would be almost impossible to find for a single-family home.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 7/8 on October 12, 2023, 02:00:16 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 12, 2023, 12:37:22 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 12:35:05 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 12, 2023, 12:27:13 PM

Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 11:37:27 AM
Denmark reaches futher south than Scotland. The difference is 3 degree minutes.

That actually doesn't surprise me at all.  In fact, Scotland reaching farther south than Denmark would have surprised me, for some reason.

And Alaska's southernmost point is only 2 degree minutes north of Scotland's southernmost point.

Now this one does surprise me.  Even if you ignore the Aleutian islands, it's still not that big of a difference.  Wow.

And for me, I didn't realize the Aleutian Islands extend further south than the Alaskan panhandle.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 02:54:10 PM
Another oddity: Africa reaches farther from the equator in its northern than southern extreme. Many people associate Africa with Southern Hemisphere.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: NWI_Irish96 on October 12, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 02:54:10 PM
Another oddity: Africa reaches farther from the equator in its northern than southern extreme. Many people associate Africa with Southern Hemisphere.

Algiers is farther north than Nashville.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 03:26:18 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 12, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 02:54:10 PM
Another oddity: Africa reaches farther from the equator in its northern than southern extreme. Many people associate Africa with Southern Hemisphere.

Algiers is farther north than Nashville.

Two great ones. And how about Cape Town is farther north than Buenos Aires?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 12, 2023, 03:32:17 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 03:26:18 PM
And how about Cape Town is north of Buenos Aires?

Cape Town is east of Buenos Aires.   :bigass:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 12, 2023, 03:32:17 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 03:26:18 PM
And how about Cape Town is farther north than Buenos Aires?

Cape Town is east of Buenos Aires.   :bigass:

OK, fine. FTFY.  :meh:
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 12, 2023, 03:46:49 PM
It can also be west of it via a detestable circle.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 03:54:35 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 12, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 02:54:10 PM
Another oddity: Africa reaches farther from the equator in its northern than southern extreme. Many people associate Africa with Southern Hemisphere.

Algiers is farther north than Nashville.

Along the same idea:
Andorra is further north than Boston
Paris is only 6 minutes of latitude south of Gander, Newfoundland
London UK is at same latitude as Calgary and about the same latitude as the northernmost point of Newfoundland Island

Many people think that the east coast of the US is due west of the UK, but it is really due west of southern France, Spain, and northern Africa.
The Gulf Stream warms the UK which is why the weather there is "nice".

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 12, 2023, 03:58:44 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 03:54:35 PM
Andorra is further north than Boston

Whoa!   :-o
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on October 12, 2023, 04:04:31 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 06, 2023, 04:21:48 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 06, 2023, 04:17:55 PM
It's the same reason why, when you fly from DC to London ...

It's why, when I flew from Chicago to Warsaw, I could look out the airplane window at the Greenland ice sheet.
ORD-WAW  barely touches Greenland
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ord-waw
However, transatlantic flights don't fly great circle but follow tracks - which change daily depending on weather - wind, conditions at diversion airports etc.
Some more or less random map representing a random day:
(https://i0.wp.com/nats.aero/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/tracks.jpg)

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on October 12, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
How about - center of the world is located somewhere in northern Italy
Most of earth land and vast majority of population lives on a hemisphere with the center in Milan:
(https://i.imgur.com/OVf3b7k.gif)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on October 12, 2023, 09:08:40 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 09, 2023, 11:55:37 AM
Quote from: 1 on October 06, 2023, 08:39:53 PM
It's a great circle line going the long way, i.e. 180° opposite the shortest route.

Quote from: kkt on October 06, 2023, 09:00:00 PM
So it is NOT really a great circle, but rather the opposite of a great circle.

What definition of 'great circle' are you going by, that requires it to be the shortest distance between two points on the globe?

A great circle is the intersection of a plane and a sphere (or, in the case of planet Earth, I suppose, an oblate spheroid).  Technically, you'd have to plot a path that circumnavigates the entire globe back to your starting point to fit the true definition of 'great circle'.  But, in common parlance, a portion of that path can also be described as a great circle:  who, though, says it has to be the 'shorter half'?

great circle
noun
: a circle formed on the surface of a sphere by the intersection of a plane that passes through the center of the sphere
specifically : such a circle on the surface of the earth an arc of which connecting two terrestrial points constitutes the shortest distance on the earth's surface between them
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/great%20circle
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on October 12, 2023, 09:15:47 PM
Quote from: kalvado on October 12, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
How about - center of the world is located somewhere in northern Italy
Most of earth land and vast majority of population lives on a hemisphere with the center in Milan:
(https://i.imgur.com/OVf3b7k.gif)


Interesting.  Why Milan, though?  If you moved the center a few miles south to Rome, it looks like you might be able to catch Buenos Aires and some of the population centers of Indonesia without losing much.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on October 12, 2023, 09:29:27 PM
Quote from: kkt on October 12, 2023, 09:15:47 PM
Quote from: kalvado on October 12, 2023, 04:21:05 PM
How about - center of the world is located somewhere in northern Italy
Most of earth land and vast majority of population lives on a hemisphere with the center in Milan:
(https://i.imgur.com/OVf3b7k.gif)


Interesting.  Why Milan, though?  If you moved the center a few miles south to Rome, it looks like you might be able to catch Buenos Aires and some of the population centers of Indonesia without losing much.
Loosing most of Mexico actually..m
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dlsterner on October 12, 2023, 11:26:54 PM
There is a creek in the United States that empties into both the Atlantic and Pacific Ocean.

North Two Ocean Creek is in Wyoming along the Continental Divide (actually in a basin of the Divide).  It splits into two forks - the Atlantic Creek and the Pacific Creek (real original names!)

The Atlantic Creek flows to the Yellowstone River -> Missouri River -> Mississippi River -> Gulf of Mexico
The Pacific creek flows to the Snake River -> Columbia River -> Pacific Ocean.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Two_Ocean_Pass_USGS_Topo.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Takumi on October 13, 2023, 01:38:37 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 12, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2023, 02:54:10 PM
Another oddity: Africa reaches farther from the equator in its northern than southern extreme. Many people associate Africa with Southern Hemisphere.

Algiers is farther north than Nashville.

I mentioned it upthread, but the northernmost point of Africa is at the same latitude as Richmond.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on October 13, 2023, 08:44:01 AM
This is an unbelievable coincidende:


The most active Pacific typhoon, Pacific hurricane and Atlantic hurricane seasons have occurred in 1964, 1992 and 2020 - that's exactly 28 years apart from the last. The 1964 Pacific typhoon seasons is also the most active tropical cyclone season recorded globally, with 40 named storms.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on October 19, 2023, 03:34:39 PM
In Sweden, Umeå is larger than Sundsvall, despite that I have imagined Sundsvall as a number one city in Northern Sweden.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on October 19, 2023, 03:36:01 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 19, 2023, 03:34:39 PM
In Sweden, Umeå is larger than Sundsvall, despite that I have imagined Sundsvall as a number one city in Northern Sweden.
I tried to find those on a map, but I forgot my microscope today.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 19, 2023, 03:34:39 PM
In Sweden, Umeå is larger than Sundsvall, despite that I have imagined Sundsvall as a number one city in Northern Sweden.

Conventional wisdom is those beliefs or theories that are commonly held by most people.  I'm not sure how there could be much "conventional wisdom" about places most people have never even heard of.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on October 19, 2023, 04:30:29 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 19, 2023, 03:34:39 PM
In Sweden, Umeå is larger than Sundsvall, despite that I have imagined Sundsvall as a number one city in Northern Sweden.

Conventional wisdom is those beliefs or theories that are commonly held by most people.  I'm not sure how there could be much "conventional wisdom" about places most people have never even heard of.

Most people haven't heard of them here. That probably isn't the case in Scandinavia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on October 19, 2023, 04:36:23 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 19, 2023, 04:30:29 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 04:12:13 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 19, 2023, 03:34:39 PM
In Sweden, Umeå is larger than Sundsvall, despite that I have imagined Sundsvall as a number one city in Northern Sweden.

Conventional wisdom is those beliefs or theories that are commonly held by most people.  I'm not sure how there could be much "conventional wisdom" about places most people have never even heard of.

Most people haven't heard of them here. That probably isn't the case in Scandinavia.

Or Finland.  :)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 04:37:24 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 19, 2023, 04:30:29 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 04:12:13 PM

Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 19, 2023, 03:34:39 PM
In Sweden, Umeå is larger than Sundsvall, despite that I have imagined Sundsvall as a number one city in Northern Sweden.

Conventional wisdom is those beliefs or theories that are commonly held by most people.  I'm not sure how there could be much "conventional wisdom" about places most people have never even heard of.

Most people haven't heard of them here. That probably isn't the case in Scandinavia.

When enough of them pop on here to confirm or dispute his assertion that it defies conventional wisdom, let me know.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on October 19, 2023, 05:53:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 04:37:24 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 19, 2023, 04:30:29 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 04:12:13 PM

Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 19, 2023, 03:34:39 PM
In Sweden, Umeå is larger than Sundsvall, despite that I have imagined Sundsvall as a number one city in Northern Sweden.

Conventional wisdom is those beliefs or theories that are commonly held by most people.  I'm not sure how there could be much "conventional wisdom" about places most people have never even heard of.

Most people haven't heard of them here. That probably isn't the case in Scandinavia.

When enough of them pop on here to confirm or dispute his assertion that it defies conventional wisdom, let me know.
But it's against common sense that there are more than 3 cities  in entire Scandinavia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on October 19, 2023, 05:56:16 PM
Quote from: kalvado on October 19, 2023, 05:53:39 PM
Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 04:37:24 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 19, 2023, 04:30:29 PM

Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 04:12:13 PM

Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 19, 2023, 03:34:39 PM
In Sweden, Umeå is larger than Sundsvall, despite that I have imagined Sundsvall as a number one city in Northern Sweden.

Conventional wisdom is those beliefs or theories that are commonly held by most people.  I'm not sure how there could be much "conventional wisdom" about places most people have never even heard of.

Most people haven't heard of them here. That probably isn't the case in Scandinavia.

When enough of them pop on here to confirm or dispute his assertion that it defies conventional wisdom, let me know.
But it's against common sense that there are more than 3 cities  in entire Scandinavia.

Ehh, I'll spot you 4 cities, 5 if you're including Denmark.

These "cities" are more in central Sweden than northern - that's the geographic oddity.

But this really should have gone in the POPULATION thread, right?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on October 20, 2023, 09:31:12 AM
Quote from: GaryV on October 19, 2023, 05:56:16 PM
But this really should have gone in the POPULATION thread, right?

Yeah, I was going to say so, but I didn't want to be That Guy™.   :-P
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on October 20, 2023, 09:40:26 AM
Quote from: kphoger on October 20, 2023, 09:31:12 AM
Quote from: GaryV on October 19, 2023, 05:56:16 PM
But this really should have gone in the POPULATION thread, right?

Yeah, I was going to say so, but I didn't want to be That Guy™.   :-P

You aren't That Guy if you're responding to "That Other Guy, Finn Edition".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on November 07, 2023, 12:17:35 PM
The westernmost point on the South American continent is farther east than Jacksonville, Florida.

Atlanta, Georgia, is eight miles farther away from Miami, Florida, than it is from Keokuk, Iowa.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: doorknob60 on November 08, 2023, 06:52:27 PM
Despite the similarities in Oregon and Washington's geography (wet on the west, then Cascade Mountains, then drier on the east), there is a huge difference in average elevation of the two states. Washington's mean elevation is 1,700 ft, while Oregon's is significantly higher at 3,300 ft. Source is Wikipedia. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_elevation)

I'm not an expert, but I suspect it's because the Columbia River runs through the middle of the state. So while much of Central/Eastern Oregon is covered in high desert >4000', you don't really see that in Washington, and have a lot more lower river valleys. I knew the Yakima Valley (eg. Yakima and Tri-Cities) was relatively low elevation, but I didn't realize that the whole eastern side of the state is significantly lower than Oregon equivalents. Here are some comparisons:

Wenatchee (780') vs Bend (3623')
Yakima (1066') vs Madras (2242')
Moses Lake (1070') vs Burns (4147')
Omak (843') vs Klamath Falls (4094')
Pullman (2352') vs Enterprise (3753')
Spokane (1843') vs Ontario (2150')

As my travels in Washington haven't taken me to a lot of those places (I've spent plenty of time in the Tri-Cities, Yakima, and Spokane, but haven't spent meaningful time anywhere else east of the Cascades), I didn't realize how low places like Wenatchee were, and always assumed they would more closely align with areas of Oregon, but that's not really the case.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on November 10, 2023, 03:34:37 AM
Since we're including elevation now, the lowest point in Arkansas is not on the Mississippi River, but on the Ouachita River at the Louisiana border (55').
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: pianocello on November 11, 2023, 09:56:17 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 07, 2023, 12:17:35 PM
Atlanta, Georgia, is eight miles farther away from Miami, Florida, than it is from Keokuk, Iowa.

Going by straight-line distance, Atlanta is closer to Chicago than it is to Miami by about 20 miles.

I became acutely aware of how far north Atlanta is when trying to figure out the feasibility for me to attend any matches in the 2026 World Cup. From Evansville, it's about an hour less driving time to get to Atlanta than to Kansas City, the only midwestern venue.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on November 12, 2023, 11:20:17 AM
Quote from: doorknob60 on November 08, 2023, 06:52:27 PM
Despite the similarities in Oregon and Washington's geography (wet on the west, then Cascade Mountains, then drier on the east), there is a huge difference in average elevation of the two states. Washington's mean elevation is 1,700 ft, while Oregon's is significantly higher at 3,300 ft. Source is Wikipedia. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_elevation)

I'm not an expert, but I suspect it's because the Columbia River runs through the middle of the state. So while much of Central/Eastern Oregon is covered in high desert >4000', you don't really see that in Washington, and have a lot more lower river valleys. I knew the Yakima Valley (eg. Yakima and Tri-Cities) was relatively low elevation, but I didn't realize that the whole eastern side of the state is significantly lower than Oregon equivalents. Here are some comparisons:

Wenatchee (780') vs Bend (3623')
Yakima (1066') vs Madras (2242')
Moses Lake (1070') vs Burns (4147')
Omak (843') vs Klamath Falls (4094')
Pullman (2352') vs Enterprise (3753')
Spokane (1843') vs Ontario (2150')

As my travels in Washington haven't taken me to a lot of those places (I've spent plenty of time in the Tri-Cities, Yakima, and Spokane, but haven't spent meaningful time anywhere else east of the Cascades), I didn't realize how low places like Wenatchee were, and always assumed they would more closely align with areas of Oregon, but that's not really the case.

Yes!  Washington was under a sheet of ice during the ice ages.  Then as the great sheet of ice retreated, repeatedly the melt channel was blocked by ice forming a dam created large glacial lakes, then the dam would break and the lake released all at once scouring the land all the way out to the Pacific.  The floods happened about 40 times at intervals of about 50 years.  Eastern Oregon was spared both being covered by the ice sheet and the violent repeated flooding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_floods
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on December 03, 2023, 12:00:21 PM

Here in one on climate variations and countries.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: michravera on December 03, 2023, 01:42:55 PM
Quote from: pianocello on November 11, 2023, 09:56:17 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 07, 2023, 12:17:35 PM
Atlanta, Georgia, is eight miles farther away from Miami, Florida, than it is from Keokuk, Iowa.

Going by straight-line distance, Atlanta is closer to Chicago than it is to Miami by about 20 miles.

I became acutely aware of how far north Atlanta is when trying to figure out the feasibility for me to attend any matches in the 2026 World Cup. From Evansville, it's about an hour less driving time to get to Atlanta than to Kansas City, the only midwestern venue.

... Maybe not during the World Cup ...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on December 04, 2023, 07:41:28 AM
The easternmost point of Iceland is further west than all of mainland Europe.


Norway reaches both further north and south than Finland.


The 18th parallel east passes through Stockholm city.


The easternmost point of Ukraine is further west that the westernmost point of country of Georgia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on December 04, 2023, 08:28:04 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 04, 2023, 07:41:28 AM
The easternmost point of Iceland is further west than all of mainland Europe.
Duh.
Quote
Norway reaches both further north and south than Finland.
Sure. That surprises you? I mean, given that Norway wraps around the northern end of Sweden and Finland.
Quote
The 18th parallel east passes through Stockholm city.
So?
Quote
The easternmost point of Ukraine is further west that the westernmost point of country of Georgia.
OK, that one is a little unexpected.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on December 04, 2023, 09:49:38 AM
Ukraine being further west than Georgia is unexpected?

Perhaps because I lived in Rostov-na-Donu, but that one was pretty obvious.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: 7/8 on December 04, 2023, 09:55:22 AM
I think he meant to say "the easternmost point of Ukraine is further east than the westernmost point of Georgia". The westernmost point of Georgia is 40.0E, while the easternmost point of Ukraine is 40.2E.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on December 04, 2023, 10:25:40 AM
Quote from: GaryV on December 04, 2023, 08:28:04 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 04, 2023, 07:41:28 AM
The 18th parallel east passes through Stockholm city.
So?
I meant that 18th meridian east. Both Helsinki and Stockholm have whole-degree meridian passing through the city proper, and Oslo additionally has one (11 east) passing through eastern suburban areas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on December 04, 2023, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 04, 2023, 10:25:40 AM
Quote from: GaryV on December 04, 2023, 08:28:04 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 04, 2023, 07:41:28 AM
The 18th parallel east passes through Stockholm city.
So?
I meant that 18th meridian east. Both Helsinki and Stockholm have whole-degree meridian passing through the city proper, and Oslo additionally has one (11 east) passing through eastern suburban areas.
1 degree at equator is something like 111km = 69 miles, less at higher latitudes. Helsinki is at 60N, so meridian spacing is ~55 km. Helsinki city limits are ~23 km E-W, so there is about 50% chance that a city that big would be crossed by a integer  meridian. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 04, 2023, 01:51:43 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on December 04, 2023, 09:55:22 AM
I think he meant to say "the easternmost point of Ukraine is further east than the westernmost point of Georgia". The westernmost point of Georgia is 40.0E, while the easternmost point of Ukraine is 40.2E.

And that only if you don't consider Abkhazia to be independent (I don't, it isn't even defined as an entity in ISO 3166).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on December 04, 2023, 11:48:34 PM
Quote from: 7/8 on December 04, 2023, 09:55:22 AM
I think he meant to say "the easternmost point of Ukraine is further east than the westernmost point of Georgia". The westernmost point of Georgia is 40.0E, while the easternmost point of Ukraine is 40.2E.
Still not that surprising at that miniscule overlap.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 09:03:47 AM
Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
The northernmost point of Africa is in same latitude as southern suburbs of Richmond, VA.
Québec City is about the same latitude as Poitiers, France.
All of the UK is further north than the entire contiguous US.
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.





Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 22, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 09:03:47 AM
Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.

This is the only one of these that would really surprise people.

Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 09:03:47 AM
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.

This one is very obvious. One is a national capital. The other is a provincial capital in a sparsely populated region.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on December 22, 2023, 10:46:27 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 09:03:47 AM
Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
The northernmost point of Africa is in same latitude as southern suburbs of Richmond, VA.
Québec City is about the same latitude as Poitiers, France.
All of the UK is further north than the entire contiguous US.
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.
Most of these are the definition of conventional wisdom.

Your participation on the forum is either loopily quixotic or quintessentially mundane.  There is no inbetween.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 10:53:53 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2023, 10:46:27 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 09:03:47 AM
Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
The northernmost point of Africa is in same latitude as southern suburbs of Richmond, VA.
Québec City is about the same latitude as Poitiers, France.
All of the UK is further north than the entire contiguous US.
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.
Most of these are the definition of conventional wisdom.

Your participation on the forum is either loopily quixotic or quintessentially mundane.  There is no inbetween.
Some people are surprised that Europe lies so farther north. That northern Scotland at 58 degrees north does not have very cold winters and permanent snow cover, but Toyama at 36 degrees north has heavy snowfalls every winter. And Indianapolis at 40 degrees north has similar winter temperatures to Helsinki, 20 degrees further north.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kirbykart on December 22, 2023, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 22, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
This is the only one of these that would really surprise people.

I don't know, I was pretty surprised by Africa reaching as far north as Virginia.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on December 22, 2023, 11:53:59 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 09:03:47 AM
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
This is mildly interesting and slightly unexpected.

A related note: In the series MASH it was sometimes shown how cold it was in winter in Korea. Despite it being on the same latitude as Virginia and the Carolinas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on December 22, 2023, 12:29:12 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 10:53:53 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2023, 10:46:27 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 09:03:47 AM
Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
The northernmost point of Africa is in same latitude as southern suburbs of Richmond, VA.
Québec City is about the same latitude as Poitiers, France.
All of the UK is further north than the entire contiguous US.
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.
Most of these are the definition of conventional wisdom.

Your participation on the forum is either loopily quixotic or quintessentially mundane.  There is no inbetween.
Some people are surprised that Europe lies so farther north. That northern Scotland at 58 degrees north does not have very cold winters and permanent snow cover, but Toyama at 36 degrees north has heavy snowfalls every winter. And Indianapolis at 40 degrees north has similar winter temperatures to Helsinki, 20 degrees further north.
Just restating what you stated in a different way doesn't change my opinion.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Takumi on December 22, 2023, 12:42:11 PM
Quote from: kirbykart on December 22, 2023, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 22, 2023, 10:18:24 AM
This is the only one of these that would really surprise people.

I don't know, I was pretty surprised by Africa reaching as far north as Virginia.



I'd previously mentioned it twice in this thread.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 12:44:04 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2023, 12:29:12 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 10:53:53 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 22, 2023, 10:46:27 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 09:03:47 AM
Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
The northernmost point of Africa is in same latitude as southern suburbs of Richmond, VA.
Québec City is about the same latitude as Poitiers, France.
All of the UK is further north than the entire contiguous US.
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.
Most of these are the definition of conventional wisdom.

Your participation on the forum is either loopily quixotic or quintessentially mundane.  There is no inbetween.
Some people are surprised that Europe lies so farther north. That northern Scotland at 58 degrees north does not have very cold winters and permanent snow cover, but Toyama at 36 degrees north has heavy snowfalls every winter. And Indianapolis at 40 degrees north has similar winter temperatures to Helsinki, 20 degrees further north.
Just restating what you stated in a different way doesn't change my opinion.
I find it different when I realize that some cities with snowy winters (even colder than Helsinki) are way further south than Helsinki, even south of 45th parallel north. Such as Sapporo, Toronto, Cleveland, Bucharest and Vladivostok. They have longer days, earlier sunrises and later sunsets, higher sun and bigger distance of earliest sunset and latest sunrise. But still same or even colder temperatures. I would like to live in some of these cities, e.g. in US or Canada, and see how the daylight compares to Helsinki.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: thenetwork on December 23, 2023, 12:26:45 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 22, 2023, 12:44:04 PM

I find it different when I realize that some cities with snowy winters (even colder than Helsinki) are way further south than Helsinki, even south of 45th parallel north. Such as Sapporo, Toronto, Cleveland, Bucharest and Vladivostok. They have longer days, earlier sunrises and later sunsets, higher sun and bigger distance of earliest sunset and latest sunrise. But still same or even colder temperatures. I would like to live in some of these cities, e.g. in US or Canada, and see how the daylight compares to Helsinki.

Many of the larger cities in and around the Great Lakes get a lot of snow (usually east and south of the lakes) because of what is known as "lake effect".  This is when cold air and wind pick up water vapor from the warmer open waters of the lakes and stays aloft until it crosses over a land mass.  At that point the water vapor freezes rapidly and becomes too heavy in the air, resulting in heavy wet snow.

Places like Cleveland, Erie and Buffalo get dumped on until Lake Erie freezes over then the "lake effect" shuts off.  Lake Erie is the only Great lake that can totally freeze over due to it's shallow depths.

There is said that there are only 4 or 5 places in the world that experience lake effect weather and snows -- 2 in the United States!  One is the Great Lakes Region, and the other is in the Salt Lake City Area.   Don't know where the rest are, though
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on December 23, 2023, 01:22:28 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 23, 2023, 12:26:45 PM
Lake Erie is the only Great lake that can totally freeze over due to it's shallow depths.
Lake Michigan has frozen over once in my adult lifetime. And when that happens, it really gets cold. Grand Rapids is almost like Minneapolis.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on December 23, 2023, 03:03:58 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 23, 2023, 12:26:45 PM
There is said that there are only 4 or 5 places in the world that experience lake effect weather and snows -- 2 in the United States!  One is the Great Lakes Region, and the other is in the Salt Lake City Area.   Don't know where the rest are, though

Apparently a lot of places can experience lake-effect snow, or at least something close to, as long as a warm body of water is going to be nearby to produce it. Of course, many of these places ain't necessarily gonna get cold enough for the snow to happen or even stick, but even Florida could get "lake-effect snow" from the Gulf of Mexico if the temperature is to get low enough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake-effect_snow
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 24, 2023, 09:00:25 AM
Tampico, Tamaulipas has reported temperatures below freezing. At sea level. In the tropics. Despite having a tropical climate. Now that is unexpected.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on December 24, 2023, 03:01:22 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 24, 2023, 09:00:25 AM
Tampico, Tamaulipas has reported temperatures below freezing. At sea level. In the tropics. Despite having a tropical climate. Now that is unexpected.
I'm sure it's extremely rare but it happens. The RGV got a real blast from the winter storm in February 2021. The last one before that was in February 2011 (the Super Bowl ice storm), and the last really bad one was in December 1989. Tampico isn't that far away.

https://www.weather.gov/bro/2021event_februaryfreeze
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CoreySamson on December 28, 2023, 02:55:01 PM
This might be more of a numbering or routing oddity, but I never realized that US 270's western terminus is in Kansas, of all places. That was strange finding that out.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on December 29, 2023, 10:05:08 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 28, 2023, 02:55:01 PM
This might be more of a numbering or routing oddity, but I never realized that US 270's western terminus is in Kansas, of all places. That was strange finding that out.

Where did you expect it to go to? The Panhandle is US 64 and 412's territory, and the north edge of the Texas panhandle is covered by 60.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on December 29, 2023, 11:11:34 AM
No hurricane/typhoon has ever crossed the equator.

(https://i.redd.it/9gr2bnm04ura1.jpg)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on December 29, 2023, 11:23:27 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 29, 2023, 11:11:34 AM
No hurricane/typhoon has ever crossed the equator.

(https://i.redd.it/9gr2bnm04ura1.jpg)
We'll have to see about changing that.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 29, 2023, 11:35:17 AM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2023, 11:23:27 AM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 29, 2023, 11:11:34 AM
No hurricane/typhoon has ever crossed the equator.

(https://i.redd.it/9gr2bnm04ura1.jpg)


We'll have to see about changing that.

Canada's arctic islands will have typhoons.  These will come from Southern Hemisphere and names will be in reverse alphabetical order.  This is because it current has no typhoons.  Falkland Islands, South Sandwich Islands, and Antarctic Peninsula will have hurricanes.  These will come from Northern Hemisphere and names will be digits of pi, in groups of four digits each.  First one will be 3141, next will be 5926, and so on.  This is because islands in Southern Hemisphere do not currently have hurricanes.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on December 29, 2023, 12:19:42 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 29, 2023, 11:35:17 AM
Canada's arctic islands will have typhoons. 
Souky will get 2 or 3 hurricanes a year. Sometimes maybe more.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CoreySamson on December 29, 2023, 01:10:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2023, 10:05:08 AM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 28, 2023, 02:55:01 PM
This might be more of a numbering or routing oddity, but I never realized that US 270's western terminus is in Kansas, of all places. That was strange finding that out.

Where did you expect it to go to? The Panhandle is US 64 and 412's territory, and the north edge of the Texas panhandle is covered by 60.
I more or less thought it ended somewhere near Woodward. I just didn't know that it continued on to Kansas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 29, 2023, 02:16:17 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 29, 2023, 01:10:55 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 29, 2023, 10:05:08 AM

Quote from: CoreySamson on December 28, 2023, 02:55:01 PM
This might be more of a numbering or routing oddity, but I never realized that US 270's western terminus is in Kansas, of all places. That was strange finding that out.

Where did you expect it to go to? The Panhandle is US 64 and 412's territory, and the north edge of the Texas panhandle is covered by 60.

I more or less thought it ended somewhere near Woodward. I just didn't know that it continued on to Kansas.

Am I missing something, or is US-270 entirely concurrent with other US Routes west from that point to its terminus except for its overlap with OK-23?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on December 29, 2023, 02:48:07 PM
Yes, it is. It used to continue further into Kansas, ending at Syracuse, and that section was mostly independent except for a US 160 concurrency. I believe KDOT cut it back in order to make room for a potential I-270.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on December 29, 2023, 03:16:11 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 29, 2023, 11:11:34 AM
No hurricane/typhoon has ever crossed the equator.

(https://i.redd.it/9gr2bnm04ura1.jpg)
And no tropical cyclone has ever formed in southeastern Pacific due to cold water.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on December 29, 2023, 03:33:10 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13-du-Ha!-Ha! on December 29, 2023, 03:16:11 PM
And no tropical cyclone has ever formed in southeastern Pacific due to cold water.

They will with my new plan.  It will be nice to see tropical cyclones form in southeastern Pacific.  These storms' names will all have the letter E as the fourth letter.  This is because E is my favorite letter.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on December 29, 2023, 03:53:51 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 28, 2023, 02:55:01 PM
This might be more of a numbering or routing oddity, but I never realized that US 270's western terminus is in Kansas, of all places. That was strange finding that out.

For me, this is US 84 ending in southern Colorado after a long NW/SE jog through Texas and New Mexico.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on December 29, 2023, 05:19:51 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 29, 2023, 11:11:34 AM
No hurricane/typhoon has ever crossed the equator.

(https://i.redd.it/9gr2bnm04ura1.jpg)
That's because Coriolis force is almost non-existent near the equator. Tropical systems cannot develop the spin necessary to develop into tropical cyclones.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 03, 2024, 01:23:29 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 29, 2023, 05:19:51 PM

Quote from: JayhawkCO on December 29, 2023, 11:11:34 AM
No hurricane/typhoon has ever crossed the equator.

That's because Coriolis force is almost non-existent near the equator. Tropical systems cannot develop the spin necessary to develop into tropical cyclones.

Might I suggest the same solution as to another problem:

Quote from: kphoger on October 19, 2023, 02:32:39 PM
the Equator will be farther north, and lines of latitude will be farther north too
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: chays on January 04, 2024, 02:37:10 PM
Nairobi, Kenya, is further east than any part of Israel. I'm not sure why, but this surprised me.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kalvado on January 04, 2024, 05:09:30 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 24, 2023, 03:01:22 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on December 24, 2023, 09:00:25 AM
Tampico, Tamaulipas has reported temperatures below freezing. At sea level. In the tropics. Despite having a tropical climate. Now that is unexpected.
I'm sure it's extremely rare but it happens. The RGV got a real blast from the winter storm in February 2021. The last one before that was in February 2011 (the Super Bowl ice storm), and the last really bad one was in December 1989. Tampico isn't that far away.

https://www.weather.gov/bro/2021event_februaryfreeze
Sometimes things work out strange. Latest snowfall in the season in Albany NY was on June 6th.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 04, 2024, 05:12:12 PM
Quote from: chays on January 04, 2024, 02:37:10 PM
Nairobi, Kenya, is further east than any part of Israel. I'm not sure why, but this surprised me.
That one's a thinker, but makes sense.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on January 09, 2024, 06:46:11 PM
Japan extends farther north, east, south, and west than either of the Koreas.

(https://i.postimg.cc/7hHzCMwd/Japan.png)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 09, 2024, 10:07:25 PM
Wonder if any of those islands are disputed.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on January 09, 2024, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 09, 2024, 10:07:25 PM
Wonder if any of those islands are disputed.

If it's in Asia, China is claiming it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheCatalyst31 on January 10, 2024, 12:56:08 AM
Rabat, Morocco is closer than Toronto than to Muscat, Oman. The Arab states cover more land than I thought.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on January 11, 2024, 12:15:04 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 09, 2024, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 09, 2024, 10:07:25 PM
Wonder if any of those islands are disputed.

If it's in Asia, China is claiming it.

Doesn't Russia claim some of the northern islands as well?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: US 89 on January 11, 2024, 01:10:36 AM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on December 23, 2023, 03:03:58 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on December 23, 2023, 12:26:45 PM
There is said that there are only 4 or 5 places in the world that experience lake effect weather and snows -- 2 in the United States!  One is the Great Lakes Region, and the other is in the Salt Lake City Area.   Don't know where the rest are, though

Apparently a lot of places can experience lake-effect snow, or at least something close to, as long as a warm body of water is going to be nearby to produce it. Of course, many of these places ain't necessarily gonna get cold enough for the snow to happen or even stick, but even Florida could get "lake-effect snow" from the Gulf of Mexico if the temperature is to get low enough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake-effect_snow

This is late I know, but as a meteorologist who has studied this in some detail, I feel obligated to contribute...

Lake effect storms essentially requires air that is sufficiently cold to flow over a relatively warm body of water that is large enough, and the key is the difference in temperature between the lake surface and the temperature in the mid-levels of the atmosphere. If this difference is big enough, the rate of temperature decrease with height is large enough that it's considered "unstable", which can allow storms to form if other conditions, such as winds and humidity, are right. So in short, the lake has to be warmer than the air above, and the size of that temperature difference determines the likelihood of lake effect.

Whether it's snow or rain simply depends on how warm it is at the surface. Usually, the airmasses that are cold enough to result in instability over a lake are cold enough to have snow at the surface, but this isn't always the case, especially if the lake is warmer. The other big thing is that the whole process doesn't work if the water surface freezes over, which is why this generally isn't a thing in the Arctic.

The Great Lakes are perfect for lake effect snow because they're downwind of Canada and the Upper Midwest, which typically have very cold air in place during the winter that can later move over the lakes. They are also big enough that they take a long time to freeze over, so you have an entire fall and early winter season to work with where the lake is warmer than the air above. It works for the Great Salt Lake because it's salty and so never freezes. That lake is also shallow enough that it can warm up quite quickly in a short amount of time, which combined means there is also a spring lake effect season there.

This can absolutely happen over any body of water if the temperature difference is big enough. The reason the Gulf of Mexico rarely ever sees this type of weather is that for a typical Gulf sea surface temperature in winter, it's very rare to have an airmass make it all the way down to the Gulf and still be cold enough to produce enough instability. There are places in Japan, for example, where sea-effect snow is quite common because they are more prone to blasts of colder air from the north.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 11, 2024, 06:58:49 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on January 11, 2024, 12:15:04 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on January 09, 2024, 10:20:50 PM
Quote from: Rothman on January 09, 2024, 10:07:25 PM
Wonder if any of those islands are disputed.

If it's in Asia, China is claiming it.

Doesn't Russia claim some of the northern islands as well?
Those are the Kuril Islands.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on January 11, 2024, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 09, 2024, 10:07:25 PM
Wonder if any of those islands are disputed.

Dokdo Takeshima The Liancourt Rocks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks), disputed between Japan and South Korea (and, by extension of the latter, North Korea, but Kim Jong-Un isn't interested in that)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on January 12, 2024, 10:24:49 PM
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on January 11, 2024, 10:29:10 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 09, 2024, 10:07:25 PM
Wonder if any of those islands are disputed.

Dokdo Takeshima The Liancourt Rocks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liancourt_Rocks), disputed between Japan and South Korea (and, by extension of the latter, North Korea, but Kim Jong-Un isn't interested in that)

I suppose if he's ever able to conquer South Korealiberate the south from the US empire and reunify the peninsula under the Workers' Party of Korea, I wouldn't be too surprised if he turns his attention to the disputed territories like those islands...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on January 15, 2024, 05:53:03 PM


Here are interesting parts on how New York Boroughs were drawn. 
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on January 18, 2024, 03:15:15 PM
A few sunrise/sunset time oddities:
- Iceland is in wrong time zone, at least in winter. In Reykjavik, sun rises at 11:23 in winter solstice. At lunchtime. In start of February, sun still rises few minutes past 10:00.
- Belarus is also in wrong time zone, at least in winter. In Minsk, sun rises at 9:28 in winter solstice. Three minutes later than Helsinki. Sun never sets before 16:47.
- In northern Japan, sun rises as early as 3:35 in the winter, 19 minutes earlier than Helsinki, despite being located about 15 degrees further south.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: hotdogPi on January 18, 2024, 03:17:19 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 18, 2024, 03:15:15 PM
- Iceland is in wrong time zone, at least in winter. In Reykjavik, sun rises at 11:23 in winter solstice. At lunchtime. In start of February, sun still rises few minutes past 10:00.

How is this evidence that it's in the wrong time zone? Something just barely below the Arctic Circle will get just the tiniest amount of daylight on the winter solstice. You should be checking solar noon instead.

I am seeing a lopsided sunrise-sunset time (10:46-16:31 for today), so there's a decent possibility it's in the wrong time zone, but your statement doesn't show it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on January 18, 2024, 03:44:16 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 18, 2024, 03:17:19 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 18, 2024, 03:15:15 PM
- Iceland is in wrong time zone, at least in winter. In Reykjavik, sun rises at 11:23 in winter solstice. At lunchtime. In start of February, sun still rises few minutes past 10:00.

How is this evidence that it's in the wrong time zone? Something just barely below the Arctic Circle will get just the tiniest amount of daylight on the winter solstice. You should be checking solar noon instead.

I am seeing a lopsided sunrise-sunset time (10:46-16:31 for today), so there's a decent possibility it's in the wrong time zone, but your statement doesn't show it.
The solar noon today is at 13:38, whereas in Helsinki for example, it is at 12:30 (sunrise being at 9:02 and sunset at 15:59). In most of Europe solar noon is slightly after 12 in winter and slightly after 13 in summer, but in Iceland, it is close to 13 all the year. This is because Iceland in on UTC+0 all the year, despite that its longitude would put it at UTC-1 (and it is even close to theoretical eastern boundary of UTC-2). If Iceland used UTC-1 instead, the sunrise/set would be ) 9:46-15:31, more normal for that latitude in that time of year.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 18, 2024, 07:11:58 PM
It is time for Poiponen to be stopped.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on January 19, 2024, 05:14:29 AM
Quote from: Rothman on January 18, 2024, 07:11:58 PM
It is time for Poiponen to be stopped.
I just like to discuss sunrise and sunset times. Does this forum have an astronomy thread? I like to tell how odd the Reykjavik rise/set times are, and compare them to Helsinki.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 19, 2024, 10:19:49 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13-du-Ha!-Ha! on January 19, 2024, 05:14:29 AM
I just like to discuss sunrise and sunset times. Does this forum have an astronomy thread? I like to tell how odd the Reykjavik rise/set times are, and compare them to Helsinki.

Then join an astronomy forum.  Any discussion on this forum about sunrise/sunset times will invariably lead to arguing about DST, and those threads all end up getting locked—to the point that DST is a de facto prohibited topic.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on January 19, 2024, 10:41:46 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 19, 2024, 10:19:49 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13-du-Ha!-Ha! on January 19, 2024, 05:14:29 AM
I just like to discuss sunrise and sunset times. Does this forum have an astronomy thread? I like to tell how odd the Reykjavik rise/set times are, and compare them to Helsinki.

Then join an astronomy forum.  Any discussion on this forum about sunrise/sunset times will invariably lead to arguing about DST, and those threads all end up getting locked—to the point that DST is a de facto prohibited topic.
In my post about Reykjavik times, I tried to avoid saying "DST" as well as possible. I just tried to format my sentences so that they will not contain things like "because it doesn't use DST".
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on January 22, 2024, 12:45:25 PM
None of Slavic countries (Poland, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, N. Macedonia, Bulgaria, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia) have their capital on coast, despite that Poland, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Russia have coastline. Of Balto-Slavic countries (adding Latvia and Lithuania), Latvia however has its capital, Riga, on coast.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: dlsterner on January 22, 2024, 02:48:54 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 22, 2024, 12:45:25 PM
None of Slavic countries (Poland, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, N. Macedonia, Bulgaria, Belarus, Ukraine, Russia) have their capital on coast, despite that Poland, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, Ukraine and Russia have coastline. Of Balto-Slavic countries (adding Latvia and Lithuania), Latvia however has its capital, Riga, on coast.
Not sure how that "def(ies) conventional wisdom".  Many countries that come to mind have their capital off the coast.  I guess Finland is an aberration.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on January 22, 2024, 03:09:29 PM
Most of the biggest capitals in Europe are not on the coast: London, Paris, Madrid, Rome and others.

The 3 large countries in North America don't have their capitals on the coast.

Many Asian capitals are not on the coast.

About half of the South American capitals are not on the coast.

It's not that much of an oddity.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on January 22, 2024, 09:56:55 PM
It would be kind of weird if Ukraine did have its capital on the coast—Kyiv has been the seat of power in the region since the 800s or so.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kkt on January 22, 2024, 11:20:02 PM
The coasts are dangerously exposed.  An enemy could assemble a fleet just out of sight of shore and land them and take the capital without much warning.

Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 22, 2024, 11:34:13 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2024, 11:20:02 PM
The coasts are dangerously exposed.  An enemy could assemble a fleet just out of sight of shore and land them and take the capital without much warning.
And then there's the case of NYC during The War of 1812, which was defended by a "meat grinder" complex of forts...which totally deterred the British from coming in there.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: mrsman on January 23, 2024, 12:04:37 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2024, 11:20:02 PM
The coasts are dangerously exposed.  An enemy could assemble a fleet just out of sight of shore and land them and take the capital without much warning.

Of course.  That's why the capital cities for much of the old countries were a little bit upriver from the actual coastline.  Coast is kind of close, but not directly near those cities.

In the modern day, there are very few coastal capitals.  Here is an interesting map I discovered.  No claims as to accuracy.

https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/653617733525749760/countries-with-coastal-capitals-by-geoduchy


Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on January 23, 2024, 01:20:43 PM
Quote from: mrsman on January 23, 2024, 12:04:37 PM
Quote from: kkt on January 22, 2024, 11:20:02 PM
The coasts are dangerously exposed.  An enemy could assemble a fleet just out of sight of shore and land them and take the capital without much warning.

Of course.  That's why the capital cities for much of the old countries were a little bit upriver from the actual coastline.  Coast is kind of close, but not directly near those cities.

In the modern day, there are very few coastal capitals.  Here is an interesting map I discovered.  No claims as to accuracy.

https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/653617733525749760/countries-with-coastal-capitals-by-geoduchy (https://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/653617733525749760/countries-with-coastal-capitals-by-geoduchy)
The map is wrong. Seoul and Pyongyang are on coast.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jlam on January 23, 2024, 03:39:10 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 23, 2024, 01:20:43 PM
The map is wrong. Seoul and Pyongyang are on coast.
No (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0300604,125.7589178,23902m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), they aren't (https://www.google.com/maps/@37.5423112,127.0000355,18664m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 23, 2024, 05:35:07 PM
*sigh*
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on January 23, 2024, 09:57:48 PM
Does it count if a capital is on a tidal estuary? I believe Washington, D.C. is.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jlam on January 23, 2024, 10:26:43 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on January 23, 2024, 09:57:48 PM
Does it count if a capital is on a tidal estuary? I believe Washington, D.C. is.
According to the map, no. See the Thames estuary.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on January 23, 2024, 10:47:03 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 23, 2024, 01:20:43 PM
The map is wrong. Seoul and Pyongyang are on coast.

Seoul has sprawled all the way out to the coast, but Pyongyang isn't even the first city on the Taedong River.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on January 24, 2024, 02:37:59 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 23, 2024, 10:47:03 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 23, 2024, 01:20:43 PM
The map is wrong. Seoul and Pyongyang are on coast.

Seoul has sprawled all the way out to the coast, but Pyongyang isn't even the first city on the Taedong River.
The development has, but Seoul itself isn't on the coast, that's Incheon.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on January 24, 2024, 03:25:33 PM
Quote from: vdeane on January 24, 2024, 02:37:59 PM
Quote from: Bruce on January 23, 2024, 10:47:03 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 23, 2024, 01:20:43 PM
The map is wrong. Seoul and Pyongyang are on coast.

Seoul has sprawled all the way out to the coast, but Pyongyang isn't even the first city on the Taedong River.
The development has, but Seoul itself isn't on the coast, that's Incheon.
Seoul and Incheon used to be separate urban areas with farmland in between, but they now are connected with deveploment.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on January 24, 2024, 03:33:51 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 23, 2024, 01:20:43 PM
Seoul and Pyongyang are on coast.

Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 24, 2024, 03:25:33 PM
Seoul and Incheon used to be separate urban areas with farmland in between, but they now are connected with deveploment.

So you agree, then, that Seoul is not on the coast.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bm7 on January 25, 2024, 01:22:22 AM
Straight west from Phoenix, the California coast is 314 miles away. Go straight south instead, and the coast of the Gulf of California is very slightly closer at 312 miles.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on January 25, 2024, 07:43:46 AM
Quote from: bm7 on January 25, 2024, 01:22:22 AM
Straight west from Phoenix, the California coast is 314 miles away. Go straight south instead, and the coast of the Gulf of California is very slightly closer at 312 miles.
I like that one.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: andrepoiy on January 29, 2024, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 01:14:13 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 12, 2023, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 12:34:18 PM
...
I looked at GoogleMaps and realized that what I wrote was not as clear cut as I thought, so I deleted it. My thinking was that the Canadian expressway that I-87 becomes goes due north, but when I looked at a map, the expressway actually bends a bit to the west, so the whole city of Montreal is more west than I thought.
Anything west of A-30 (which I would consider pretty much all of the Montréal area to be; Montréal itself doesn't extend to the mainland) is west of VT.  The key thing is that Canada (southern Ontario aside) doesn't tend to sprawl as much as the US, so those smaller nearby communities that would just have been subsumed into the bigger metro area in the US (or near Toronto) are still distinct places.

Definitely a fair point, but I would include Toronto in the category of not sprawling as much as the US. It's so huge that it can feel sprawling, but on a block level the suburban areas are still way more compact than US suburbs. Even the outlying suburbs such as Milton, Vaughan and Richmond Hill have new homes built on small properties with hardly any yard to speak of, and the transition from those areas to rural ones is very abrupt (in no small part due to the Greenbelt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenbelt_(Golden_Horseshoe))). I'd even go so far as to say "exurban" areas don't really exist, and to the extent they do, they're very limited and usually fall closer to either suburban or rural.

Canadians in general seem to be impressed by how sprawling suburbs in the US are, and vice versa. To us, a house on an acre property is pretty typical for an outlying suburb, but to them, that's a massive property that would be almost impossible to find for a single-family home.

I would say that GTA single-family detached homes actually resemble a lot of Los Angeles area' single-family detached homes - very little lawn/backyard, smaller lots, little space between houses
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on January 29, 2024, 05:04:33 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on January 29, 2024, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: webny99 on October 12, 2023, 01:14:13 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 12, 2023, 12:58:43 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on October 12, 2023, 12:34:18 PM
...
I looked at GoogleMaps and realized that what I wrote was not as clear cut as I thought, so I deleted it. My thinking was that the Canadian expressway that I-87 becomes goes due north, but when I looked at a map, the expressway actually bends a bit to the west, so the whole city of Montreal is more west than I thought.
Anything west of A-30 (which I would consider pretty much all of the Montréal area to be; Montréal itself doesn't extend to the mainland) is west of VT.  The key thing is that Canada (southern Ontario aside) doesn't tend to sprawl as much as the US, so those smaller nearby communities that would just have been subsumed into the bigger metro area in the US (or near Toronto) are still distinct places.

Definitely a fair point, but I would include Toronto in the category of not sprawling as much as the US. It's so huge that it can feel sprawling, but on a block level the suburban areas are still way more compact than US suburbs. Even the outlying suburbs such as Milton, Vaughan and Richmond Hill have new homes built on small properties with hardly any yard to speak of, and the transition from those areas to rural ones is very abrupt (in no small part due to the Greenbelt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenbelt_(Golden_Horseshoe))). I'd even go so far as to say "exurban" areas don't really exist, and to the extent they do, they're very limited and usually fall closer to either suburban or rural.

Canadians in general seem to be impressed by how sprawling suburbs in the US are, and vice versa. To us, a house on an acre property is pretty typical for an outlying suburb, but to them, that's a massive property that would be almost impossible to find for a single-family home.

I would say that GTA single-family detached homes actually resemble a lot of Los Angeles area' single-family detached homes - very little lawn/backyard, smaller lots, little space between houses
Newer builds in DFW are like that. It's all about maximizing rooftops for developers. I have a quarter-acre lot on an older build (2003). Big enough to put in a regulation batting cage in the back.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on February 02, 2024, 11:30:06 AM
The large size of Louisiana throws me off.  Even when I intellectually know how it's as wide as upstate NY and a bigger state than Ohio geographically, it is still stuck in my mind that it's that dinky little state between Mississippi and Texas.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jlam on February 02, 2024, 11:59:21 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 02, 2024, 11:30:06 AM
The large size of Louisiana throws me off.  Even when I intellectually know how it's as wide as upstate NY and a bigger state than Ohio geographically, it is still stuck in my mind that it's that dinky little state between Mississippi and Texas.
Same here. Texas seems to make it seem tiny by comparison. Louisiana is almost as large as Mississippi (larger if you count its water area).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on February 02, 2024, 12:42:03 PM
Agreed. When we were doing the longest interstate segments in two adjacent states thread, in no way did I think I-10 ran longer through Louisiana than New Mexico, and certainly not by 100 miles. (Part of that is me forgetting that El Paso is almost at the centerpoint of New Mexico from an East/West perspective.)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: MikieTimT on February 02, 2024, 12:51:29 PM
Quote from: jlam on February 02, 2024, 11:59:21 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 02, 2024, 11:30:06 AM
The large size of Louisiana throws me off.  Even when I intellectually know how it's as wide as upstate NY and a bigger state than Ohio geographically, it is still stuck in my mind that it's that dinky little state between Mississippi and Texas.
Same here. Texas seems to make it seem tiny by comparison. Louisiana is almost as large as Mississippi (larger if you count its water area).

Probably it's because it's only a little over a 150 miles across at its narrowest width between I-10 and I-20.  It's almost 300 miles across from the "heel" to the "toe" of the "boot" along the coastline.

What makes it seem smaller is there is much less habitable area than most states due to the sheer swampiness of the majority of the southern portion except for the ribbons along US-90 and I-10.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on February 02, 2024, 01:11:16 PM
I wonder how much of it is due to the northern half being narrower. Seems to me like if it was flipped, it would seem a lot bigger.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: jlam on February 02, 2024, 01:15:38 PM
Part of it might also be the north-south narrowness near New Orleans. Going north on I-55, you're almost immediately in Mississippi.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on February 02, 2024, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 02, 2024, 12:42:03 PM
Agreed. When we were doing the longest interstate segments in two adjacent states thread, in no way did I think I-10 ran longer through Louisiana than New Mexico, and certainly not by 100 miles. (Part of that is me forgetting that El Paso is almost at the centerpoint of New Mexico from an East/West perspective.)
^Good point.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on February 02, 2024, 01:28:05 PM


Quote from: jlam on February 02, 2024, 01:15:38 PM
Part of it might also be the north-south narrowness near New Orleans. Going north on I-55, you're almost immediately in Mississippi.

Not really.  You'd be surprised how far it is between I-10 and the MS border.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on February 02, 2024, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 02, 2024, 01:28:05 PM

Quote from: jlam on February 02, 2024, 01:15:38 PM
Part of it might also be the north-south narrowness near New Orleans. Going north on I-55, you're almost immediately in Mississippi.

Not really.  You'd be surprised how far it is between I-10 and the MS border.

Partly because I-10 dips south through NOLA. 66 miles from LaPlace to the MS line is actually more than I thought, but I-12 is almost halfway there.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on February 02, 2024, 04:11:22 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on February 02, 2024, 12:42:03 PM
(Part of that is me forgetting that El Paso is almost at the centerpoint of New Mexico from an East/West perspective.)

Oh, wow.  Yeah, I keep forgetting that too.  It sure seems like El Paso and Carlsbad should be closer together...
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tmoore952 on February 02, 2024, 09:43:57 PM
I remember driving to the New Mexico line on I-10 from downtown Phoenix, and realizing that if I drove that same distance further east on I-10 I would have been 80-90 miles east of El Paso.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CoreySamson on February 03, 2024, 02:31:49 PM
What really throws me off is that Arkansas is bigger in area than Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi (but not combined of course!). It's a little bigger than what it seems on a map.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on February 03, 2024, 02:50:24 PM
As you may have already known, Helsinki has more people than the country of Iceland. And Greenland is farther noth, south, east and west than Iceland.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on February 03, 2024, 04:58:29 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 03, 2024, 02:50:24 PM
As you may have already known, Helsinki has more people than the country of Iceland.
We have another thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32192.0) for that.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bwana39 on February 05, 2024, 02:14:12 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 02, 2024, 11:30:06 AM
The large size of Louisiana throws me off.  Even when I intellectually know how it's as wide as upstate NY and a bigger state than Ohio geographically, it is still stuck in my mind that it's that dinky little state between Mississippi and Texas.

California is not all that wide either....
At its Narrowest EW point Louisiana  is around 110 nautical miles across it, but via roads, I-20 is around 180 miles.
In California, it is closer to 150 nautical miles at its narrowest, BUT I-8 from Yuma To San Diego is around 5 miles less than Louisiana's shortest road route.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on February 05, 2024, 08:08:33 AM
Melbourne, Australia is closer to Antarctica than it is to Darwin.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on February 05, 2024, 03:53:35 PM
While asking Google Maps for directions I discovered I'm closer to Italy than to the other end of Spain.
Quote from: bm7 on January 25, 2024, 01:22:22 AM
Straight west from Phoenix, the California coast is 314 miles away. Go straight south instead, and the coast of the Gulf of California is very slightly closer at 312 miles.

It's less than 40 miles from the Arizona state line to the closest coastline.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on February 06, 2024, 01:12:55 PM
Virginia reaches further west than West Virginia. Lithuania reaches further south than Denmark. Lithuania also reaches further north than Belarus. Kazakhstan reaches further north than Germany.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on February 06, 2024, 01:48:27 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 06, 2024, 01:12:55 PM
Virginia reaches further west than West Virginia.
Common knowledge
Quote
Lithuania reaches further south than Denmark. Lithuania also reaches further north than Belarus.
Not that all surprising
Quote
Kazakhstan reaches further north than Germany.
OK, that one's a bit unexpected.

Not bad, hitting 1 for 4. .250 is a respectable batting average.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on February 06, 2024, 02:03:31 PM
Quote from: GaryV on February 06, 2024, 01:48:27 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 06, 2024, 01:12:55 PM
Virginia reaches further west than West Virginia.
Common knowledge

I sort of thought they were about the same, but it doesn't really surprise me much to find out that the far western tip of VA extends past the western tip of WV. The state lines in that area are sort of weird.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: CNGL-Leudimin on February 06, 2024, 03:16:23 PM
Literally on the first page of this thread :sombrero::
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on November 28, 2015, 02:13:30 PM
Edit to add that Virginia actually reaches farther West than West Virginia.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tmoore952 on February 06, 2024, 07:21:15 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 06, 2024, 01:12:55 PM
Virginia reaches further west than West Virginia.

What surprised me more than this is that the westernmost point of Virginia (at Cumberland Gap)--- is at the same longitude as about halfway between Cincinnati and Columbus in Ohio. To drive from DC to Cumberland Gap and staying completely in Virginia would take you the better part of a day's drive (i have done it).

Also noticed that --- using the routes suggested by the Internet ---- the driving distance from DC to Cumberland Gap (I-66, I-81, US 58) is about 25 miles farther than the distance from Cumberland Gap to Memphis (most of this is I-40). Note though that DC to Cumberland Gap drive is not as the crow flies due to mountainous terrain.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: vdeane on February 06, 2024, 09:18:42 PM
Quote from: GaryV on February 06, 2024, 01:48:27 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 06, 2024, 01:12:55 PM
Lithuania reaches further south than Denmark. Lithuania also reaches further north than Belarus.
Not that all surprising
Honestly, I'm more surprised that it only barely reaches further north than Belarus.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on February 07, 2024, 01:15:16 PM
The northernmost point of Kazakhstan is also further north than the southernmost point of Sweden. So, it is possible to have a Kazakh living further north than a Swede.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on February 07, 2024, 03:08:43 PM
Both of those oddities about Kazakhstan surprise me.  Good ones!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 05:51:21 PM
Washington, D.C. is a little more than 1° north of San Francisco, CA.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on February 13, 2024, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 05:51:21 PM
Washington, D.C. is a little more than 1° north of San Francisco, CA.
Meh.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 06:54:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2024, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 05:51:21 PM
Washington, D.C. is a little more than 1° north of San Francisco, CA.
Meh.

IDK why, but I've always thought of the two as being close to the middle of their respective coastlines of the contiguous 48. So I thought it was neat that one is justly slightly north of the other.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on February 13, 2024, 07:37:17 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 05:51:21 PM
Washington, D.C. is a little more than 1° north of San Francisco, CA.

Likewise Sacramento is on the 38th parallel with Washington D.C.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on February 13, 2024, 08:32:05 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 06:54:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2024, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 05:51:21 PM
Washington, D.C. is a little more than 1° north of San Francisco, CA.
Meh.

IDK why, but I've always thought of the two as being close to the middle of their respective coastlines of the contiguous 48. So I thought it was neat that one is justly slightly north of the other.

San Fran is actually quite a bit south of the middle. That would be roughly 250 miles north, somewhere near Eureka. Meanwhile, DC is quite a bit north of the middle (thanks, Florida).
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on February 14, 2024, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2024, 08:32:05 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 06:54:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2024, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 05:51:21 PM
Washington, D.C. is a little more than 1° north of San Francisco, CA.
Meh.

IDK why, but I've always thought of the two as being close to the middle of their respective coastlines of the contiguous 48. So I thought it was neat that one is justly slightly north of the other.

San Fran is actually quite a bit south of the middle. That would be roughly 250 miles north, somewhere near Eureka. Meanwhile, DC is quite a bit north of the middle (thanks, Florida).
Yes I remember looking at a map that the California/Oregon border is the approximate halfway point between Canada and Mexico.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on February 14, 2024, 11:18:58 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 14, 2024, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2024, 08:32:05 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 06:54:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2024, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 05:51:21 PM
Washington, D.C. is a little more than 1° north of San Francisco, CA.
Meh.

IDK why, but I've always thought of the two as being close to the middle of their respective coastlines of the contiguous 48. So I thought it was neat that one is justly slightly north of the other.

San Fran is actually quite a bit south of the middle. That would be roughly 250 miles north, somewhere near Eureka. Meanwhile, DC is quite a bit north of the middle (thanks, Florida).
Yes I remember looking at a map that the California/Oregon border is the approximate halfway point between Canada and Mexico.
Wut.

I-5, from OR to San Ysidro: About 795 miles.
OR to Canada: About 586.

Perhaps not as lopsided as some would expect, but still lopsided.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on February 14, 2024, 11:41:13 AM
Quote from: Rothman on February 14, 2024, 11:18:58 AM
Quote from: bing101 on February 14, 2024, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: webny99 on February 13, 2024, 08:32:05 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 06:54:07 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 13, 2024, 06:24:55 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 13, 2024, 05:51:21 PM
Washington, D.C. is a little more than 1° north of San Francisco, CA.
Meh.

IDK why, but I've always thought of the two as being close to the middle of their respective coastlines of the contiguous 48. So I thought it was neat that one is justly slightly north of the other.

San Fran is actually quite a bit south of the middle. That would be roughly 250 miles north, somewhere near Eureka. Meanwhile, DC is quite a bit north of the middle (thanks, Florida).
Yes I remember looking at a map that the California/Oregon border is the approximate halfway point between Canada and Mexico.
Wut.

I-5, from OR to San Ysidro: About 795 miles.
OR to Canada: About 586.

Perhaps not as lopsided as some would expect, but still lopsided.

795 - 586 = 209 / 2 = 104.5

I-5 from OR line to Pit River Bridge at Shasta Lake = 104.5 miles

Eureka!
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Poiponen13 on February 17, 2024, 01:14:08 PM
Reykjavik has milder winters than Prague, despite being about 14 degrees further north.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tmoore952 on February 17, 2024, 01:46:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 17, 2024, 01:14:08 PM
Reykjavik has milder winters than Prague, despite being about 14 degrees further north.
Due to geothermal heat in Iceland. Same reason why Iceland has a distinct hydrogen sulfide smell which is noticeable when you shower there, and volcanoes that erupt every once in a while.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: GaryV on February 17, 2024, 03:19:23 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on February 17, 2024, 01:46:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 17, 2024, 01:14:08 PM
Reykjavik has milder winters than Prague, despite being about 14 degrees further north.
Due to geothermal heat in Iceland.
More likely due to the moderating effect of the surrounding ocean and its currents.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: tmoore952 on February 17, 2024, 04:02:59 PM
Quote from: GaryV on February 17, 2024, 03:19:23 PM
Quote from: tmoore952 on February 17, 2024, 01:46:52 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 17, 2024, 01:14:08 PM
Reykjavik has milder winters than Prague, despite being about 14 degrees further north.
Due to geothermal heat in Iceland.
More likely due to the moderating effect of the surrounding ocean and its currents.
I'll agree it is more due to the Gulf Stream, but the geothermal effect is not insignificant.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: bing101 on February 21, 2024, 01:54:34 PM


Parts of Southern Nevada used to be a part of the Arizona territory if you look at :50 of the clip.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on February 21, 2024, 04:31:39 PM
Yep, and it was part of New Mexico Territory before that. What is now Clark County was awarded to Nevada after the Civil War to punish Arizona Territory for supporting the Confederacy.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Road Hog on March 04, 2024, 10:08:34 PM
The "mighty" Hudson River is only 315 miles long and discharges 21,900 ft3/sec into the ocean at its mouth. Most of its length is an ocean estuary created by glaciation.

The White River (AR/MO) is 733 miles long and its discharge into the Mississippi is 26,180 ft3.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on March 04, 2024, 10:43:18 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on March 04, 2024, 10:08:34 PM
The "mighty" Hudson River is only 315 miles long and discharges 21,900 ft3/sec into the ocean at its mouth. Most of its length is an ocean estuary created by glaciation.

The White River (AR/MO) is 733 miles long and its discharge into the Mississippi is 26,180 ft3.
White River?  Never heard of it.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Bruce on March 05, 2024, 12:48:31 AM
Bunch of wimpy rivers out east.

The Yakima River discharges 59,400 cu ft/sec into the Columbia River and is only 214 miles long.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: kphoger on March 05, 2024, 01:03:54 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 04, 2024, 10:43:18 PM

Quote from: Road Hog on March 04, 2024, 10:08:34 PM
The "mighty" Hudson River is only 315 miles long and discharges 21,900 ft3/sec into the ocean at its mouth. Most of its length is an ocean estuary created by glaciation.

The White River (AR/MO) is 733 miles long and its discharge into the Mississippi is 26,180 ft3.

White River?  Never heard of it.

I think that's kind of his point.  We've all heard of the Hudson.

But I've never heard it called "the mighty Hudson".  Is that a thing?
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: JayhawkCO on March 05, 2024, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 05, 2024, 01:03:54 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 04, 2024, 10:43:18 PM

Quote from: Road Hog on March 04, 2024, 10:08:34 PM
The "mighty" Hudson River is only 315 miles long and discharges 21,900 ft3/sec into the ocean at its mouth. Most of its length is an ocean estuary created by glaciation.

The White River (AR/MO) is 733 miles long and its discharge into the Mississippi is 26,180 ft3.

White River?  Never heard of it.

I think that's kind of his point.  We've all heard of the Hudson.

But I've never heard it called "the mighty Hudson".  Is that a thing?

Some people call it that. (https://www.hudsonriverstories.com/the-mighty-hudson/)
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Rothman on March 05, 2024, 04:59:11 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 05, 2024, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 05, 2024, 01:03:54 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 04, 2024, 10:43:18 PM

Quote from: Road Hog on March 04, 2024, 10:08:34 PM
The "mighty" Hudson River is only 315 miles long and discharges 21,900 ft3/sec into the ocean at its mouth. Most of its length is an ocean estuary created by glaciation.

The White River (AR/MO) is 733 miles long and its discharge into the Mississippi is 26,180 ft3.

White River?  Never heard of it.

I think that's kind of his point.  We've all heard of the Hudson.

But I've never heard it called "the mighty Hudson".  Is that a thing?

Some people call it that. (https://www.hudsonriverstories.com/the-mighty-hudson/)
Makes me wonder how much water comes up the Hudson from the ocean.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: webny99 on March 05, 2024, 08:04:04 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 05, 2024, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 05, 2024, 01:03:54 PM
Quote from: Rothman on March 04, 2024, 10:43:18 PM

Quote from: Road Hog on March 04, 2024, 10:08:34 PM
The "mighty" Hudson River is only 315 miles long and discharges 21,900 ft3/sec into the ocean at its mouth. Most of its length is an ocean estuary created by glaciation.

The White River (AR/MO) is 733 miles long and its discharge into the Mississippi is 26,180 ft3.

White River?  Never heard of it.

I think that's kind of his point.  We've all heard of the Hudson.

But I've never heard it called "the mighty Hudson".  Is that a thing?

Some people call it that. (https://www.hudsonriverstories.com/the-mighty-hudson/)

I've definitely heard it called that. Probably not as widespread as "mighty Mississippi", but I would say yes, it is a thing.
Title: Re: This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom
Post by: Scott5114 on March 11, 2024, 07:21:19 PM
Quote from: Bruce on March 05, 2024, 12:48:31 AM
Bunch of wimpy rivers out east.

The Yakima River discharges 59,400 cu ft/sec into the Columbia River and is only 214 miles long.

Meanwhile, the mighty river closest to me discharges a whopping 0 cu ft/sec into the Gulf of California. :P