Non-Intersection Roundabouts

[jakeroot]

This roundabout used to be a cul-de-sac IIRC: https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6882337,-75.9230056,143m/data=!3m1!1e3
I think the intent was to allow non-park traffic to turn around, but many people just ignore the pavement markings.

That's pretty cool. I like mini roundabouts. Only problem I see is that they signed the roundabout as a "traffic circle" with a yellow square sign with the circulatory shape on it, when it should be a square white sign with the circulatory shape on it, sans any additional signs.

[TravelingBethelite]

Sorry to bump this ancient thread, but it seems like the best place for this to go.

This roundabout is a great candidate for this thread. It was obviously destined to be an intersection but I guess the extensions of the two road never ultimately came to be. It bothers me how useless it is. Both the city of Columbia and MoDOT looove roundabouts, and whichever of them built this must have insisted on it.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9012241,-92.3275445,305m/data=!3m1!1e3

[hotdogPi]

Scusset Beach Rd., Bourne, MA. Its intent is to allow you to turn around, since there's a paid parking lot ahead.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7759701,-70.5225012,17.68z

[NWI_Irish96]

Ocoee, Florida:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.544174,-81.558455&spn=0.002349,0.003098&t=h&z=19

Can't figure out why they chose to put a roundabout here.

Missed this thread the first time around but since it got bumped I noticed it this time around.

I'm gonna take a guess as to why a roundabout got put here. My guess is that there was a recurring problem with northbound cars cutting the corner on the curve and causing head on collisions. The roundabout eliminates that.

[deathtopumpkins]

I think this was originally a driveway circle for the historical marker nearby, and Battlefield Tour Road was built later: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.2076368,-76.5039399,288m/data=!3m1!1e3

The opposite, actually. The tour road was there first, with the parking lot off the northwest side of it, closer to the monument. Was changed to the current configuration in the 1970s.

I wouldn't call it a roundabout, though I guess it does technically function as one, albeit one with parking along it.

[webny99]

I'm not sure if this would fit the spirit of the thread, but these are somewhat common in residential neighborhoods around here. (And they're annoying as all get out, I might add, because it's even harder to get around them without braking than it is a standard speed bump...!  ) I'd be curious to know if these are common elsewhere.

[jeffandnicole]

I'm not sure if this would fit the spirit of the thread, but these are somewhat common in residential neighborhoods around here. (And they're annoying as all get out, I might add, because it's even harder to get around them without braking than it is a standard speed bump...!  ) I'd be curious to know if these are common elsewhere.

They are calming devices, and if you're needing to hit the brakes they're working as they should (albeit maybe poorly marked). 

I certainly don't recall seeing something specifically like this around here.

[webny99]

I'm not sure if this would fit the spirit of the thread, but these are somewhat common in residential neighborhoods around here. (And they're annoying as all get out, I might add, because it's even harder to get around them without braking than it is a standard speed bump...!  ) I'd be curious to know if these are common elsewhere.

They are calming devices, and if you're needing to hit the brakes they're working as they should (albeit maybe poorly marked). 

I certainly don't recall seeing something specifically like this around here.

Yes, I know they're a calming device, but no, that does not mean you should have to hit the brakes. Speed bumps/humps are calming devices too, and I rarely if ever need to hit the brakes for those. Like I said, these things are worse than speed bumps - they're simply too narrow on each side to safely navigate without slowing way down.

I'll have to start paying closer attention to my exact speed next time I use one of them, because I'm sure they're not navigable at the posted limit of 25 mph.

[yakra]

Another instance in which bicycles are a superior form of transportation.

[deathtopumpkins]

they're simply too narrow on each side to safely navigate without slowing way down.

That is literally the point of them.

[NWI_Irish96]

I'm not sure if this would fit the spirit of the thread, but these are somewhat common in residential neighborhoods around here. (And they're annoying as all get out, I might add, because it's even harder to get around them without braking than it is a standard speed bump...!  ) I'd be curious to know if these are common elsewhere.

I live on a dead end street that people seem to like flying up at 50+ mph. I'd love to see one of these in the middle of my block.

[vdeane]

they're simply too narrow on each side to safely navigate without slowing way down.

That is literally the point of them.

The point should be to make people go the speed limit, not to periodically force them to come to close to a complete stop in order to annoy them into taking a different road.

[jakeroot]

they're simply too narrow on each side to safely navigate without slowing way down.

That is literally the point of them.

The point should be to make people go the speed limit, not to periodically force them to come to close to a complete stop in order to annoy them into taking a different road.

But roundabouts already do this, just at intersections. I don't see why putting them mid-block is necessarily a huge deal in neighborhood settings where, frankly, 15-20 is really the fastest anyone should be going.

[hotdogPi]

they're simply too narrow on each side to safely navigate without slowing way down.

That is literally the point of them.

The point should be to make people go the speed limit, not to periodically force them to come to close to a complete stop in order to annoy them into taking a different road.

But roundabouts already do this, just at intersections. I don't see why putting them mid-block is necessarily a huge deal in neighborhood settings where, frankly, 15-20 is really the fastest anyone should be going.

Roundabouts are an alternative to signals or stop signs, not to nothing.

I will also say that if Waze has any possibility of routing you down a particular street to avoid congestion (this is not one of them), that street should not have residential traffic calming.

[webny99]

they're simply too narrow on each side to safely navigate without slowing way down.

That is literally the point of them.

The point should be to make people go the speed limit, not to periodically force them to come to close to a complete stop in order to annoy them into taking a different road.

But roundabouts already do this, just at intersections. I don't see why putting them mid-block is necessarily a huge deal in neighborhood settings where, frankly, 15-20 is really the fastest anyone should be going.

The posted limit is actually 25 mph, as it is on almost all residential neighborhoods in this area. These are also much tighter than a regular roundabout - you can even see that one of the residents has placed rocks around this particular one to avoid people driving on their lawn. Like I said, next time I use one I'm going to pay attention to whether it's navigable at 25 mph or even 20 mph, because I don't think it is.

Roundabouts are an alternative to signals or stop signs, not to nothing.

I will also say that if Waze has any possibility of routing you down a particular street to avoid congestion (this is not one of them), that street should not have residential traffic calming.

Yeah, that's why I compared it to speed humps, since both are specifically for traffic calming and not used at intersections.

To your point about routes that can be used to avoid congestion, you'd probably have an issue with this road, which has seven speed bumps despite being used by through traffic. There's not a lot of congestion in this area, but this road is heavily used as a local cut-through, and it's also a good alternate to Five Mile Line Road at rush hour when Five Mile Line inevitably backs up at NY 441 (as shown in the link at the time of this post).

[jakeroot]

they're simply too narrow on each side to safely navigate without slowing way down.

That is literally the point of them.

The point should be to make people go the speed limit, not to periodically force them to come to close to a complete stop in order to annoy them into taking a different road.

But roundabouts already do this, just at intersections. I don't see why putting them mid-block is necessarily a huge deal in neighborhood settings where, frankly, 15-20 is really the fastest anyone should be going.

Roundabouts are an alternative to signals or stop signs, not to nothing.

Okay, so they made something out of nothing. I'm not sure what the big deal is? Briefly slowing down below the limit is not unreasonable in a neighborhood setting. Especially this road, as it's barely a fifth of a mile long.

Point about intersections is simply that roundabouts "require" drivers to slow down and navigate a circle, and we only slightly lose our minds about them even when placed on highways. Yet one finds its way into a small neighborhood and we all lose our minds. God forbid we slow down from 25 to 15 to drive around a small median.

The posted limit is actually 25 mph, as it is on almost all residential neighborhoods in this area. These are also much tighter than a regular roundabout - you can even see that one of the residents has placed rocks around this particular one to avoid people driving on their lawn. Like I said, next time I use one I'm going to pay attention to whether it's navigable at 25 mph or even 20 mph, because I don't think it is.

Perhaps the limit shouldn't be 25 then. Default residential limit in Seattle is 20, and the roads are now (finally) being designed to encourage those slow speeds. Here in Seattle and Tacoma, calming circles just as tight as the the circle you shared are a dime-a-dozen (example, example). Yes, the vast majority are at intersections, but the point is that you have to slow way down to navigate them. This does bring the average speed down quite a bit, since other design characteristics also encourage slow speeds between the circles (especially single-lane streets with parking along both edges).

There are ways to slow traffic down besides speed humps and tables. Changing the street design is highly effective: large trees, street parking, chicanes, contraflow, and of course calming circles. Yes, many of these either encourage or force you slow down below the limit, but that's fine in a neighborhood setting. The goal of (checks notes...) Grace Marie Drive should not be to allow drivers to maintain 25 mph. It should be to create a livable neighborhood street. In my professional opinion, the calming circle that more-or-less forces cars to slow down, and perhaps glance around, partially achieves that. Ideally, the intersections north and south should have the circles as well (having the circle only mid-block is a bit odd but there is nothing inherently wrong with it).

[webny99]

Point about intersections is simply that roundabouts "require" drivers to slow down and navigate a circle, and we only slightly lose our minds about them even when placed on highways. Yet one finds its way into a small neighborhood and we all lose our minds. God forbid we slow down from 25 to 15 to drive around a small median.

Whoa, hold up there. I believe vdeane and I are the only ones that have even expressed disapproval for these mini-roundabouts, and only here in this thread. That's nowhere near the level of controversy that actual roundabouts have created on this forum over the years. See here. 

Perhaps the limit shouldn't be 25 then. Default residential limit in Seattle is 20, and the roads are now (finally) being designed to encourage those slow speeds. Here in Seattle and Tacoma, calming circles just as tight as the the circle you shared are a dime-a-dozen (example, example). Yes, the vast majority are at intersections, but the point is that you have to slow way down to navigate them. This does bring the average speed down quite a bit, since other design characteristics also encourage slow speeds between the circles (especially single-lane streets with parking along both edges).

There are ways to slow traffic down besides speed humps and tables. Changing the street design is highly effective: large trees, street parking, chicanes, contraflow, and of course calming circles. Yes, many of these either encourage or force you slow down below the limit, but that's fine in a neighborhood setting. The goal of (checks notes...) Grace Marie Drive should not be to allow drivers to maintain 25 mph. It should be to create a livable neighborhood street. In my professional opinion, the calming circle that more-or-less forces cars to slow down, and perhaps glance around, partially achieves that. Ideally, the intersections north and south should have the circles as well (having the circle only mid-block is a bit odd but there is nothing inherently wrong with it).

I don't think the speed limit should be lowered here. There's nothing wrong with 25 mph. Some of the things you mention (lower speed limits, large trees, street parking) are suitable for dense urban areas, especially those with high concentrations of pedestrians, but are unnecessary in suburban neighborhoods. There's already sidewalks on both sides of the street here, which is more than can be said of a lot of neighborhoods that don't have traffic calming circles.

I actually kind of like the small roundabouts in Seattle. They're definitely not as tight as my mid-block example, they help to visually identify where the intersection is because of the vegetation, and traffic is able to keep moving around them, unlike a four-way stop or a two-way stop (which is what those intersections would have here in NY). The mid-block calming circle, meanwhile, has no vegetation, only a lamp post, so it's easy to overlook the base and not realize how big it is until you're too close to adjust your speed and navigate it accordingly, so you end up slamming the brakes.

And to be clear, I don't have an inherent issue with driving below the speed limit if it's reasonably set, I just like to be able to maintain whatever speed I'm traveling. For example, I can usually maintain about 25-30 mph on the road with the seven speed humps that I linked to upthread, and it bothers me to no end when people brake for every single speed hump. There's even been a few times when I've crossed the double-solid line and passed people who insist on doing so. If you slow down to 5 mph for a speed hump, you've become an obstruction not much different than a garbage truck or a mail truck, so I don't see any reason not to pass you.

[yand]

Point about intersections is simply that roundabouts "require" drivers to slow down and navigate a circle, and we only slightly lose our minds about them even when placed on highways. Yet one finds its way into a small neighborhood and we all lose our minds. God forbid we slow down from 25 to 15 to drive around a small median.

Whoa, hold up there. I believe vdeane and I are the only ones that have even expressed disapproval for these mini-roundabouts, and only here in this thread. That's nowhere near the level of controversy that actual roundabouts have created on this forum over the years. See here. 

Perhaps the limit shouldn't be 25 then. Default residential limit in Seattle is 20, and the roads are now (finally) being designed to encourage those slow speeds. Here in Seattle and Tacoma, calming circles just as tight as the the circle you shared are a dime-a-dozen (example, example). Yes, the vast majority are at intersections, but the point is that you have to slow way down to navigate them. This does bring the average speed down quite a bit, since other design characteristics also encourage slow speeds between the circles (especially single-lane streets with parking along both edges).

There are ways to slow traffic down besides speed humps and tables. Changing the street design is highly effective: large trees, street parking, chicanes, contraflow, and of course calming circles. Yes, many of these either encourage or force you slow down below the limit, but that's fine in a neighborhood setting. The goal of (checks notes...) Grace Marie Drive should not be to allow drivers to maintain 25 mph. It should be to create a livable neighborhood street. In my professional opinion, the calming circle that more-or-less forces cars to slow down, and perhaps glance around, partially achieves that. Ideally, the intersections north and south should have the circles as well (having the circle only mid-block is a bit odd but there is nothing inherently wrong with it).

I don't think the speed limit should be lowered here. There's nothing wrong with 25 mph. Some of the things you mention (lower speed limits, large trees, street parking) are suitable for dense urban areas, especially those with high concentrations of pedestrians, but are unnecessary in suburban neighborhoods. There's already sidewalks on both sides of the street here, which is more than can be said of a lot of neighborhoods that don't have traffic calming circles.

I actually kind of like the small roundabouts in Seattle. They're definitely not as tight as my mid-block example, they help to visually identify where the intersection is because of the vegetation, and traffic is able to keep moving around them, unlike a four-way stop or a two-way stop (which is what those intersections would have here in NY). The mid-block calming circle, meanwhile, has no vegetation, only a lamp post, so it's easy to overlook the base and not realize how big it is until you're too close to adjust your speed and navigate it accordingly, so you end up slamming the brakes.

And to be clear, I don't have an inherent issue with driving below the speed limit if it's reasonably set, I just like to be able to maintain whatever speed I'm traveling. For example, I can usually maintain about 25-30 mph on the road with the seven speed humps that I linked to upthread, and it bothers me to no end when people brake for every single speed hump. There's even been a few times when I've crossed the double-solid line and passed people who insist on doing so. If you slow down to 5 mph for a speed hump, you've become an obstruction not much different than a garbage truck or a mail truck, so I don't see any reason not to pass you.

A speed hump that allows comfortably travelling over at 30mph seems like it would barely protect pedestrians. Instead of lowering the speed limit entirely or putting in humps that are no different from slight road imperfections, why not post a yellow warning sign with a recommended crossing speed?

[US 89]

So placing excessive traffic calming on a road is in itself a justification for lowering the speed limit? I don't buy that.

[Rothman]

So placing excessive traffic calming on a road is in itself a justification for lowering the speed limit? I don't buy that.

I'd buy that for a dollar.

[webny99]

A speed hump that allows comfortably travelling over at 30mph seems like it would barely protect pedestrians. Instead of lowering the speed limit entirely or putting in humps that are no different from slight road imperfections, why not post a yellow warning sign with a recommended crossing speed?

Just to be clear here, these particular speed humps are not pedestrian crossings. They're specifically for slowing traffic down, since it's a residential street that's used as a cut through. It could have easily been built as a cul-de-sac on one end, but of course the residents didn't want to lose their access on either end. Instead, they have to deal with the traffic, which in turn has to deal with the speed humps.

30 mph might be a bit fast for these speed humps, but like most speed humps, they're certainly navigable at 20-25 mph if you keep your right wheels on the shoulder.

[yakra]

I actually kind of like the small roundabouts in Seattle. They're definitely not as tight as my mid-block example, they help to visually identify where the intersection is because of the vegetation, and traffic is able to keep moving around them, unlike a four-way stop or a two-way stop (which is what those intersections would have here in NY).

Dear Portland, Yr doin it wrong.

[roadfro]

Here's one that is so new, it is not yet reflected on Google Maps Street View or the main map: N. Virginia St & West Stadium Parking Complex access (just north of the 15th St signal) adjacent to the University of Nevada, Reno.

Interestingly enough, this was not installed solely for ingress/egress to the garage. The Regional Transportation Commission just finished a project on Virginia Street between I-80 and this roundabout that converted one of the through lanes each direction to a bus/bike lane. This was done partially to extend the RTC's Rapid Virginia Line from downtown Reno to the university. The roundabout was installed to provide a place for the buses to turn around after servicing the bus stop just north of Virginia Street adjacent to Lawlor Events Center on campus (which is where the basketball teams play). The stop is a short walk to the football stadium, student union, and other mid-campus locations and is also close to a couple large student apartment complexes, so it was hoped that a rapid stop at this location could help encourage ridership–but there was not an existing easy spot in the area for the bus to turn around.

[tdindy88]

This reminded me of a relatively new roundabout in Muncie, Indiana along McKinley Avenue inside the campus of Ball State University.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2088918,-85.4076557,270m/data=!3m1!1e3

The roadway used to curve from the left of the image to the southeast before resuming its southward trek through campus. As the Google Maps view indicate new residential halls were constructed that pushed the road to its current configuration, making a 90-degree turn from west to south. The road heading from the north of the roundabout serves a shuttle bus station for the parking lots in that area, primarily for commuter students.

My issue is that the roundabout is a bit awkward for those traveling from the west to the south along McKinley. If I recall there's actually a stop sign when you enter the roundabout and the geometry of the roundabout means you don't really treat it like a normal roundabout anyway. I always go through that southwest part of the roundabout as if it's a turn in the road as opposed to a traffic circle. Since something like 98-99 percent of traffic is thru traffic along McKinley I don't see why this couldn't have just been built as a single roadway but at a 90-degree angle with a roadway leading to the north to the bus stop.

[US 89]

Here's a relatively new one in Layton, Utah where a one-way ramp becomes a two-way frontage road:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.1046966,-112.0032136,87m/data=!3m1!1e3