This is true? - Geographic oddities that defy conventional wisdom

[kkt]

Despite the similarities in Oregon and Washington's geography (wet on the west, then Cascade Mountains, then drier on the east), there is a huge difference in average elevation of the two states. Washington's mean elevation is 1,700 ft, while Oregon's is significantly higher at 3,300 ft. Source is Wikipedia.

I'm not an expert, but I suspect it's because the Columbia River runs through the middle of the state. So while much of Central/Eastern Oregon is covered in high desert >4000', you don't really see that in Washington, and have a lot more lower river valleys. I knew the Yakima Valley (eg. Yakima and Tri-Cities) was relatively low elevation, but I didn't realize that the whole eastern side of the state is significantly lower than Oregon equivalents. Here are some comparisons:

Wenatchee (780') vs Bend (3623')
Yakima (1066') vs Madras (2242')
Moses Lake (1070') vs Burns (4147')
Omak (843') vs Klamath Falls (4094')
Pullman (2352') vs Enterprise (3753')
Spokane (1843') vs Ontario (2150')

As my travels in Washington haven't taken me to a lot of those places (I've spent plenty of time in the Tri-Cities, Yakima, and Spokane, but haven't spent meaningful time anywhere else east of the Cascades), I didn't realize how low places like Wenatchee were, and always assumed they would more closely align with areas of Oregon, but that's not really the case.

Yes!  Washington was under a sheet of ice during the ice ages.  Then as the great sheet of ice retreated, repeatedly the melt channel was blocked by ice forming a dam created large glacial lakes, then the dam would break and the lake released all at once scouring the land all the way out to the Pacific.  The floods happened about 40 times at intervals of about 50 years.  Eastern Oregon was spared both being covered by the ice sheet and the violent repeated flooding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missoula_floods

[bing101]

Here in one on climate variations and countries.

[michravera]

Atlanta, Georgia, is eight miles farther away from Miami, Florida, than it is from Keokuk, Iowa.

Going by straight-line distance, Atlanta is closer to Chicago than it is to Miami by about 20 miles.

I became acutely aware of how far north Atlanta is when trying to figure out the feasibility for me to attend any matches in the 2026 World Cup. From Evansville, it's about an hour less driving time to get to Atlanta than to Kansas City, the only midwestern venue.

... Maybe not during the World Cup ...

[Poiponen13]

The easternmost point of Iceland is further west than all of mainland Europe.


Norway reaches both further north and south than Finland.


The 18th parallel east passes through Stockholm city.


The easternmost point of Ukraine is further west that the westernmost point of country of Georgia.

[GaryV]

The easternmost point of Iceland is further west than all of mainland Europe.

Duh.

Norway reaches both further north and south than Finland.

Sure. That surprises you? I mean, given that Norway wraps around the northern end of Sweden and Finland.

The 18th parallel east passes through Stockholm city.

So?

The easternmost point of Ukraine is further west that the westernmost point of country of Georgia.

OK, that one is a little unexpected.

[Rothman]

Ukraine being further west than Georgia is unexpected?

Perhaps because I lived in Rostov-na-Donu, but that one was pretty obvious.

[7/8]

I think he meant to say "the easternmost point of Ukraine is further east than the westernmost point of Georgia". The westernmost point of Georgia is 40.0E, while the easternmost point of Ukraine is 40.2E.

[Poiponen13]

The 18th parallel east passes through Stockholm city.

So?

I meant that 18th meridian east. Both Helsinki and Stockholm have whole-degree meridian passing through the city proper, and Oslo additionally has one (11 east) passing through eastern suburban areas.

[kalvado]

The 18th parallel east passes through Stockholm city.

So?

I meant that 18th meridian east. Both Helsinki and Stockholm have whole-degree meridian passing through the city proper, and Oslo additionally has one (11 east) passing through eastern suburban areas.

1 degree at equator is something like 111km = 69 miles, less at higher latitudes. Helsinki is at 60N, so meridian spacing is ~55 km. Helsinki city limits are ~23 km E-W, so there is about 50% chance that a city that big would be crossed by a integer  meridian. 

[CNGL-Leudimin]

I think he meant to say "the easternmost point of Ukraine is further east than the westernmost point of Georgia". The westernmost point of Georgia is 40.0E, while the easternmost point of Ukraine is 40.2E.

And that only if you don't consider Abkhazia to be independent (I don't, it isn't even defined as an entity in ISO 3166).

[Rothman]

I think he meant to say "the easternmost point of Ukraine is further east than the westernmost point of Georgia". The westernmost point of Georgia is 40.0E, while the easternmost point of Ukraine is 40.2E.

Still not that surprising at that miniscule overlap.

[Poiponen13]

Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
The northernmost point of Africa is in same latitude as southern suburbs of Richmond, VA.
Québec City is about the same latitude as Poitiers, France.
All of the UK is further north than the entire contiguous US.
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.

[JayhawkCO]

Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.

This is the only one of these that would really surprise people.

Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.

This one is very obvious. One is a national capital. The other is a provincial capital in a sparsely populated region.

[Rothman]

Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
The northernmost point of Africa is in same latitude as southern suburbs of Richmond, VA.
Québec City is about the same latitude as Poitiers, France.
All of the UK is further north than the entire contiguous US.
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.

Most of these are the definition of conventional wisdom.

Your participation on the forum is either loopily quixotic or quintessentially mundane.  There is no inbetween.

[Poiponen13]

Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
The northernmost point of Africa is in same latitude as southern suburbs of Richmond, VA.
Québec City is about the same latitude as Poitiers, France.
All of the UK is further north than the entire contiguous US.
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.

Most of these are the definition of conventional wisdom.

Your participation on the forum is either loopily quixotic or quintessentially mundane.  There is no inbetween.

Some people are surprised that Europe lies so farther north. That northern Scotland at 58 degrees north does not have very cold winters and permanent snow cover, but Toyama at 36 degrees north has heavy snowfalls every winter. And Indianapolis at 40 degrees north has similar winter temperatures to Helsinki, 20 degrees further north.

[kirbykart]

This is the only one of these that would really surprise people.

I don't know, I was pretty surprised by Africa reaching as far north as Virginia.

[GaryV]

Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.

This is mildly interesting and slightly unexpected.

A related note: In the series MASH it was sometimes shown how cold it was in winter in Korea. Despite it being on the same latitude as Virginia and the Carolinas.

[Rothman]

Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
The northernmost point of Africa is in same latitude as southern suburbs of Richmond, VA.
Québec City is about the same latitude as Poitiers, France.
All of the UK is further north than the entire contiguous US.
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.

Most of these are the definition of conventional wisdom.

Your participation on the forum is either loopily quixotic or quintessentially mundane.  There is no inbetween.

Some people are surprised that Europe lies so farther north. That northern Scotland at 58 degrees north does not have very cold winters and permanent snow cover, but Toyama at 36 degrees north has heavy snowfalls every winter. And Indianapolis at 40 degrees north has similar winter temperatures to Helsinki, 20 degrees further north.

Just restating what you stated in a different way doesn't change my opinion.

[Takumi]

This is the only one of these that would really surprise people.

I don't know, I was pretty surprised by Africa reaching as far north as Virginia.

I'd previously mentioned it twice in this thread.

[Poiponen13]

Most of Italy is further north than Indianapolis.
Sapporo, Japan is in same latitude as Marseille, France.
The northernmost point of Africa is in same latitude as southern suburbs of Richmond, VA.
Québec City is about the same latitude as Poitiers, France.
All of the UK is further north than the entire contiguous US.
Halifax, NS, which is largest east coast city in Canada, has fewer people than Helsinki.

Most of these are the definition of conventional wisdom.

Your participation on the forum is either loopily quixotic or quintessentially mundane.  There is no inbetween.

Some people are surprised that Europe lies so farther north. That northern Scotland at 58 degrees north does not have very cold winters and permanent snow cover, but Toyama at 36 degrees north has heavy snowfalls every winter. And Indianapolis at 40 degrees north has similar winter temperatures to Helsinki, 20 degrees further north.

Just restating what you stated in a different way doesn't change my opinion.

I find it different when I realize that some cities with snowy winters (even colder than Helsinki) are way further south than Helsinki, even south of 45th parallel north. Such as Sapporo, Toronto, Cleveland, Bucharest and Vladivostok. They have longer days, earlier sunrises and later sunsets, higher sun and bigger distance of earliest sunset and latest sunrise. But still same or even colder temperatures. I would like to live in some of these cities, e.g. in US or Canada, and see how the daylight compares to Helsinki.

[thenetwork]

I find it different when I realize that some cities with snowy winters (even colder than Helsinki) are way further south than Helsinki, even south of 45th parallel north. Such as Sapporo, Toronto, Cleveland, Bucharest and Vladivostok. They have longer days, earlier sunrises and later sunsets, higher sun and bigger distance of earliest sunset and latest sunrise. But still same or even colder temperatures. I would like to live in some of these cities, e.g. in US or Canada, and see how the daylight compares to Helsinki.

Many of the larger cities in and around the Great Lakes get a lot of snow (usually east and south of the lakes) because of what is known as "lake effect".  This is when cold air and wind pick up water vapor from the warmer open waters of the lakes and stays aloft until it crosses over a land mass.  At that point the water vapor freezes rapidly and becomes too heavy in the air, resulting in heavy wet snow.

Places like Cleveland, Erie and Buffalo get dumped on until Lake Erie freezes over then the "lake effect" shuts off.  Lake Erie is the only Great lake that can totally freeze over due to it's shallow depths.

There is said that there are only 4 or 5 places in the world that experience lake effect weather and snows -- 2 in the United States!  One is the Great Lakes Region, and the other is in the Salt Lake City Area.   Don't know where the rest are, though

[GaryV]

Lake Erie is the only Great lake that can totally freeze over due to it's shallow depths.

Lake Michigan has frozen over once in my adult lifetime. And when that happens, it really gets cold. Grand Rapids is almost like Minneapolis.

[freebrickproductions]

There is said that there are only 4 or 5 places in the world that experience lake effect weather and snows -- 2 in the United States!  One is the Great Lakes Region, and the other is in the Salt Lake City Area.   Don't know where the rest are, though

Apparently a lot of places can experience lake-effect snow, or at least something close to, as long as a warm body of water is going to be nearby to produce it. Of course, many of these places ain't necessarily gonna get cold enough for the snow to happen or even stick, but even Florida could get "lake-effect snow" from the Gulf of Mexico if the temperature is to get low enough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake-effect_snow

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Tampico, Tamaulipas has reported temperatures below freezing. At sea level. In the tropics. Despite having a tropical climate. Now that is unexpected.

[Road Hog]

Tampico, Tamaulipas has reported temperatures below freezing. At sea level. In the tropics. Despite having a tropical climate. Now that is unexpected.

I'm sure it's extremely rare but it happens. The RGV got a real blast from the winter storm in February 2021. The last one before that was in February 2011 (the Super Bowl ice storm), and the last really bad one was in December 1989. Tampico isn't that far away.

https://www.weather.gov/bro/2021event_februaryfreeze