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Greensboro "Death Valley" -- 40 to Green 40 to 40 again. Why?

Started by hbelkins, December 20, 2017, 10:19:27 AM

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froggie

^ Technically, the Interstates are ALL maintained by the respective states.  They just happen to be more eligible for FHWA reimbursement than Business Interstates.


Tom958

I'm too lazy to try to look it up, but I'd bet the project concept report for the I-40-I-73 et al interchange has some information about it. Building an unTOTSO interchange there surely added considerably to the cost and introduced other issues as well, so it's hard to imagine that it wasn't discussed and said discussion documented.

Beltway

Quote from: J N Winkler on February 25, 2018, 05:04:50 PM
I can remember a MTR thread in which the issue of IM eligibility for Green 40 was discussed.  One of the participants was Jim Dunlop, a NCDOT engineer (and colleague of John Lansford) who may have had some involvement in the decisionmaking process. 

I don't think either one would have been involved in federal-aid funding decisions.   Lansford's work was in the final design of highway projects, and Jim Dunlop was a middle manager in the traffic engineering division.  Separate divisions in the central office.

If NCDOT is anything like VDOT, federal-aid funding decisions would be handled in the fiscal division by accountants or fiscal specialists.  Not by engineers, because it is not engineering work.  FHWA likewise would handle it in its fiscal area, not engineering. 

I had some involvement in the federal-aid billing system at VDOT, in study of replacing its IT system for that function, part of it was understanding the one system that every state DOT interfaces with at FHWA.  This was 20 years ago so some elements may be different today.
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mrsman

Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 01, 2018, 09:30:08 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 28, 2018, 05:04:52 PM
Once Business 40 is gone from Winston-Salem, will the freeway's exit numbers be renumbered to correspond with US 421's mileage? Or will they remain unchanged?
Good question. The Green 40 exit numbering runs west to east, but US 421 numbering runs the other way because 421 is signed as a north-south route. I'm hoping the exit numbers will be changed to match the US 421 numbers; it would seem very confusing otherwise.

With great apologies for my late post, I just wanted to add that I am happy about this.  I have never been comfortable with the concept of the business (green) interstate freeway, as I beleive it causes confusion.  Confusion for drivers to have two highways with the same number (and same shield other than the color).  Confusion when most business routes are surface streets meant to guide interstate drivers to roadside businesses like and these are full freeways.  So any time one of these green freeways is removed, I believe it to be a good thing.

Happy Biz 80 in Sacramento is no longer signed along the US 50 portion.  Hope that the remaining portion is to be signed and referred as CA-51.

Happy Green 40 in Winston-Salem has been simply renumbered to US 421.

Happy to see Green 40 removed in Greensboro, although the history of that as mentioned on this thread is odd.  Let's complete this by removing the Green 85 designation throughout the Greensboro-Lexington area to be renamed as simply I-40 east of Ohenry, I-40/Us 29/US 70 in the next section, and as US 29/US 70 to the south of the I-40/Green 85 split

Hoping that a similar solution will be available for Spartanburg's Green 85.  No suggestion as to a renumbering, but I feel that a state highway number that is inspired as an x85 would be best.

Finrod

Quote from: mrsman on July 16, 2020, 07:29:49 AM
Happy to see Green 40 removed in Greensboro, although the history of that as mentioned on this thread is odd.  Let's complete this by removing the Green 85 designation throughout the Greensboro-Lexington area to be renamed as simply I-40 east of Ohenry, I-40/US 29/US 70 in the next section, and as US 29/US 70 to the south of the I-40/Green 85 split

IIRC, I've read elsewhere on this site that US 70 is planned to be rerouted using Joseph M Bryan Blvd and SR 68, so it wouldn't be a part of that expressway piece afterwards.
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dfilpus

Quote from: Finrod on July 21, 2020, 01:30:25 AM
Quote from: mrsman on July 16, 2020, 07:29:49 AM
Happy to see Green 40 removed in Greensboro, although the history of that as mentioned on this thread is odd.  Let's complete this by removing the Green 85 designation throughout the Greensboro-Lexington area to be renamed as simply I-40 east of Ohenry, I-40/US 29/US 70 in the next section, and as US 29/US 70 to the south of the I-40/Green 85 split

IIRC, I've read elsewhere on this site that US 70 is planned to be rerouted using Joseph M Bryan Blvd and SR 68, so it wouldn't be a part of that expressway piece afterwards.

US 70 is being rerouted onto Wendover, not Joseph M Bryan Blvd.

mrsman

Quote from: dfilpus on July 21, 2020, 10:31:32 AM
Quote from: Finrod on July 21, 2020, 01:30:25 AM
Quote from: mrsman on July 16, 2020, 07:29:49 AM
Happy to see Green 40 removed in Greensboro, although the history of that as mentioned on this thread is odd.  Let's complete this by removing the Green 85 designation throughout the Greensboro-Lexington area to be renamed as simply I-40 east of Ohenry, I-40/US 29/US 70 in the next section, and as US 29/US 70 to the south of the I-40/Green 85 split

IIRC, I've read elsewhere on this site that US 70 is planned to be rerouted using Joseph M Bryan Blvd and SR 68, so it wouldn't be a part of that expressway piece afterwards.

US 70 is being rerouted onto Wendover, not Joseph M Bryan Blvd.
OK, at least us 29 will still be signed on the entire stretch of green 85, so us 29 can be a proper replacement for green 85.

Us 29 parallels 85 pretty closely in the whole area and to the southwest for a significant mileage.  Many already associate it as a localized 85.

Nexus 5X

Henry

Quote from: mrsman on July 22, 2020, 10:41:04 AM
Quote from: dfilpus on July 21, 2020, 10:31:32 AM
Quote from: Finrod on July 21, 2020, 01:30:25 AM
Quote from: mrsman on July 16, 2020, 07:29:49 AM
Happy to see Green 40 removed in Greensboro, although the history of that as mentioned on this thread is odd.  Let's complete this by removing the Green 85 designation throughout the Greensboro-Lexington area to be renamed as simply I-40 east of Ohenry, I-40/US 29/US 70 in the next section, and as US 29/US 70 to the south of the I-40/Green 85 split

IIRC, I've read elsewhere on this site that US 70 is planned to be rerouted using Joseph M Bryan Blvd and SR 68, so it wouldn't be a part of that expressway piece afterwards.

US 70 is being rerouted onto Wendover, not Joseph M Bryan Blvd.
OK, at least us 29 will still be signed on the entire stretch of green 85, so us 29 can be a proper replacement for green 85.

Nexus 5X


Not all of Green 85, it'll still exit north onto O'Henry Blvd.

Quote from: mrsman on July 16, 2020, 07:29:49 AM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on March 01, 2018, 09:30:08 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 28, 2018, 05:04:52 PM
Once Business 40 is gone from Winston-Salem, will the freeway's exit numbers be renumbered to correspond with US 421's mileage? Or will they remain unchanged?
Good question. The Green 40 exit numbering runs west to east, but US 421 numbering runs the other way because 421 is signed as a north-south route. I'm hoping the exit numbers will be changed to match the US 421 numbers; it would seem very confusing otherwise.

With great apologies for my late post, I just wanted to add that I am happy about this.  I have never been comfortable with the concept of the business (green) interstate freeway, as I beleive it causes confusion.  Confusion for drivers to have two highways with the same number (and same shield other than the color).  Confusion when most business routes are surface streets meant to guide interstate drivers to roadside businesses like and these are full freeways.  So any time one of these green freeways is removed, I believe it to be a good thing.

Happy Biz 80 in Sacramento is no longer signed along the US 50 portion.  Hope that the remaining portion is to be signed and referred as CA-51.

Happy Green 40 in Winston-Salem has been simply renumbered to US 421.

Happy to see Green 40 removed in Greensboro, although the history of that as mentioned on this thread is odd.  Let's complete this by removing the Green 85 designation throughout the Greensboro-Lexington area to be renamed as simply I-40 east of Ohenry, I-40/Us 29/US 70 in the next section, and as US 29/US 70 to the south of the I-40/Green 85 split

Hoping that a similar solution will be available for Spartanburg's Green 85.  No suggestion as to a renumbering, but I feel that a state highway number that is inspired as an x85 would be best.
Sure, I'd love to see a new state route take the place of Spartanburg's Green 85. Like 685, as that was the original proposal for after the mainline of I-85 was rerouted to the north.
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Takumi

Isn't green 85 already planned to be removed entirely? I actually like green interstates as a novelty, since they aren't a thing in Virginia, but I can see why others wouldn't.

I remember a business of some sort in Kernersville, just west of the eastern 40/40B split, advertised itself as being "between the two I-40s" .
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Finrod

Quote from: dfilpus on July 21, 2020, 10:31:32 AM
Quote from: Finrod on July 21, 2020, 01:30:25 AM
Quote from: mrsman on July 16, 2020, 07:29:49 AM
Happy to see Green 40 removed in Greensboro, although the history of that as mentioned on this thread is odd.  Let's complete this by removing the Green 85 designation throughout the Greensboro-Lexington area to be renamed as simply I-40 east of Ohenry, I-40/US 29/US 70 in the next section, and as US 29/US 70 to the south of the I-40/Green 85 split

IIRC, I've read elsewhere on this site that US 70 is planned to be rerouted using Joseph M Bryan Blvd and SR 68, so it wouldn't be a part of that expressway piece afterwards.

US 70 is being rerouted onto Wendover, not Joseph M Bryan Blvd.

I sit corrected.  Thanks.

Regarding the green business interstates: I can see how it's confusing when some of them are expressways and some of them aren't.  It seems like North Carolina is working on decommissioning or redesignating the ones that are expressways, which I can understand.
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Hate speech is a nonsense concept; the truth is hate speech to those that hate the truth.

People who use their free speech to try to silence others' free speech are dangerous fools.



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