AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Virginia  (Read 1136973 times)

sprjus4

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7097
  • Location: Hampton Roads, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:06:57 AM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5925 on: October 10, 2021, 10:45:55 AM »

2.  Next Wednesday the I-95 SB local/express lanes through the US 17/17 Bus and VA 3 interchanges will open, though some lane closures for finishing work will still occur, in both sets of lanes, some of which look painful.
Important to distinguish these lanes, which are through / local non-tolled general purpose lanes, with the reversible express / HO/T lanes being constructed immediately north of the project.

As far as lane closures, it calls for reducing the through lanes from 3 to 2 near VA-3… I feel that will cause some horrible congestion until it’s complete.
Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3440
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 11:15:56 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5926 on: October 10, 2021, 01:24:40 PM »

2.  Next Wednesday the I-95 SB local/express lanes through the US 17/17 Bus and VA 3 interchanges will open, though some lane closures for finishing work will still occur, in both sets of lanes, some of which look painful.
Important to distinguish these lanes, which are through / local non-tolled general purpose lanes, with the reversible express / HO/T lanes being constructed immediately north of the project.

As far as lane closures, it calls for reducing the through lanes from 3 to 2 near VA-3… I feel that will cause some horrible congestion until it’s complete.
Ugh.... 120,000 vpd yes.
Logged

Mapmikey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3681
  • Co-curator with Froggie of www.vahighways.com

  • Age: 51
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 10:23:03 PM
    • Co-curator Virginia Highways Project
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5927 on: October 10, 2021, 02:53:24 PM »

2.  Next Wednesday the I-95 SB local/express lanes through the US 17/17 Bus and VA 3 interchanges will open, though some lane closures for finishing work will still occur, in both sets of lanes, some of which look painful.
Important to distinguish these lanes, which are through / local non-tolled general purpose lanes, with the reversible express / HO/T lanes being constructed immediately north of the project.

As far as lane closures, it calls for reducing the through lanes from 3 to 2 near VA-3… I feel that will cause some horrible congestion until it’s complete.
Ugh.... 120,000 vpd yes.

The AADT of I-95 SB just past VA 3 is 64k (2019).  However, under the new setup, the contributions from US 17 in both directions to I-95 SB and VA 3 in both directions won't be in the lanes with the closed lane.

the two US 17 ramps to I-95 SB AADT is 24.4k (2019) [this traffic is using just one ramp during the construction]
the two VA 3 ramps to I-95 SB AADT add to 11.1k (2019)

So the traffic actually subject to the lane closure is more like 29k, which is not nothing, but maybe not gridlock (one would think if gridlock were going to be the result they would have phased it differently).  For comparison, this is about the same AADT as I-81 NB through the Harrisonburg area...
Logged

tolbs17

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3440
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 11:15:56 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5928 on: October 10, 2021, 06:34:49 PM »

Logged

1995hoo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13532
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 06:53:36 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5929 on: October 10, 2021, 06:56:27 PM »

I note they misidentified VA-3 as US-3 at one point during that video.
Logged
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Jmiles32

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 563
  • Age: 21
  • Location: Blacksburg, VA
  • Last Login: November 09, 2021, 09:51:08 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5930 on: October 10, 2021, 07:46:13 PM »

Next Wednesday the I-95 SB local/express lanes through the US 17/17 Bus and VA 3 interchanges will open, though some lane closures for finishing work will still occur, in both sets of lanes, some of which look painful.  Everything should be fully open in mainline and the C/D lanes in December.  This should alleviate the backup that stems from a lot of traffic coming from US 17 SB to use I-95 SB.  A good overview of the interim patterns until Decmber can be found here

It would not surprise me in the least if these C/D lanes will need to be extended to beyond US 1-17 at Exit 126, especially if they ever provide access to Harrison Rd or VA 208.

It will be very interesting to see whether or not a new daily southbound bottleneck forms south of VA-3 once this project is largely complete. Can't imagine how 6 lanes merging down into 3 will work out well on a road that has 64,000 southbound AADT. While a project to add a fourth southbound GP lane from southern end of this project to Exit 126 (US-1/US-17) was identified as part of the recent I-95 statewide study, it has not been prioritized for funding yet. Perhaps a new daily backup here would actually increase this project's chances of being funded.

Ideally, this glorified C/D lanes set up would indeed be extended further south and would then IMO become actual Local and Thru lanes similar to the I-270 and I-495 ones in the DC area. In addition to Exit 126 being improved, there would be new "Local" exits at Celebrate Virginia Parkway (Exit 131), Harrison Road (Exit 128), and maybe something even at a new road south of Exit 126 as that area continues to develop/sprawl (these new interchange spots were all studied by FAMPO about a decade ago). While having an interchange at VA-208 would be nice, it would probably be too close to the current Exit 126 (IMO there should've been two separate interchanges at VA-208 and US-17 instead of just one at US-1/US-17 when I-95 was originally built through the Fredericksburg area.)  At a minimum (which is most likely due to lack of funding) you will see I-95 widening to Exit 126 funded in the next couple of years. However, if the Fredericksburg area does ever decide to create a dedicated a regional transportation authority (which so far they have at least considered due to recent smart scale frustrations), then maybe you will see a larger C/D lane extension and/or a new interchange or two. IMO a big contributor to why traffic in Fredericksburg region is so bad is because of a lack of interchanges. Essentially all local traffic is forced to use either congested US-1 or even worse VA-3 which is why both of those interchanges are being upgraded. A Harrison road interchange in particular would really help serve the growing area west of I-95 and take a lot of traffic off of VA-3. The existing Harrison Road bridge is very close to needing to be replaced and thus presents a great opportunity for the state to account for putting an interchange there as a part of that future project. A similar approach to what was done at Exit 140 (where Courthouse Road not only got an upgraded interchange with I-95, but was also widened a couple of miles to the west) would be awesome and is not nearly as close to fictional territory as fully extending the C/D lanes south while also adding a bunch of new interchanges. All in all, I-95 traffic patterns after the Southbound Rappahannock River Crossing Project is fully complete will certainly be interesting to watch. 
Logged
Aspiring Transportation Planner at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies!

tolbs17

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3440
  • Age: 19
  • Location: Greenville, NC
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 11:15:56 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5931 on: October 10, 2021, 08:35:04 PM »

I note they misidentified VA-3 as US-3 at one point during that video.
People say "route", so it's not a huge deal. I just say the number highway. 95, 17, 3, 40, etc.
Logged

odditude

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 634
  • Location: NOVA
  • Last Login: Today at 01:11:14 AM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5932 on: October 11, 2021, 04:20:40 PM »

I note they misidentified VA-3 as US-3 at one point during that video.
People say "route", so it's not a huge deal. I just say the number highway. 95, 17, 3, 40, etc.

misses like that are a flag for lack of attention to detail. for projects like this, it makes one wonder what other details were missed.
Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 14646
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 38
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 11:21:50 PM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5933 on: October 12, 2021, 07:29:49 PM »

I note they misidentified VA-3 as US-3 at one point during that video.
People say "route", so it's not a huge deal. I just say the number highway. 95, 17, 3, 40, etc.

misses like that are a flag for lack of attention to detail. for projects like this, it makes one wonder what other details were missed.
speaking as a traffic engineer and sign designer, there are very few firms that have competent sign designers and you quickly learn which they are.

Mapmikey

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3681
  • Co-curator with Froggie of www.vahighways.com

  • Age: 51
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 10:23:03 PM
    • Co-curator Virginia Highways Project
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5934 on: October 12, 2021, 07:35:21 PM »

I note they misidentified VA-3 as US-3 at one point during that video.
People say "route", so it's not a huge deal. I just say the number highway. 95, 17, 3, 40, etc.

misses like that are a flag for lack of attention to detail. for projects like this, it makes one wonder what other details were missed.
speaking as a traffic engineer and sign designer, there are very few firms that have competent sign designers and you quickly learn which they are.

It's a VDOT video...VDOT has also posted a US 3 shield in the field not that far from I-95 within the last 10 years (since fixed).

The BGS renderings of VA 3 are correct which is all that really matters anyway...

Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 14646
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 38
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 11:21:50 PM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5935 on: October 12, 2021, 07:37:34 PM »

I note they misidentified VA-3 as US-3 at one point during that video.
People say "route", so it's not a huge deal. I just say the number highway. 95, 17, 3, 40, etc.

misses like that are a flag for lack of attention to detail. for projects like this, it makes one wonder what other details were missed.
speaking as a traffic engineer and sign designer, there are very few firms that have competent sign designers and you quickly learn which they are.

It's a VDOT video...VDOT has also posted a US 3 shield in the field not that far from I-95 within the last 10 years (since fixed).

The BGS renderings of VA 3 are correct which is all that really matters anyway...


It speaks to the rarity of good sign designers in general, public or private.

plain

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1538
  • Age: 43
  • Location: Richmond Virginia
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 10:07:45 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5936 on: October 12, 2021, 09:49:25 PM »

Ummmm... I believe something is missing from this BGS on I-95 SB

https://maps.app.goo.gl/jVAq91wXsNtDG3np7
Logged
Newark born, Richmond bred

kernals12

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1817
  • Love highways and cars. Hate public transit.

  • Location: Suburban Boston
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 10:22:54 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5937 on: October 13, 2021, 08:45:14 AM »

Have they looked at upgrading the PW Parkway to freeway standards from 95 to 66?
 
A quick google maps search shows that right now, at 8:43 AM EST, the height of the morning rush hour, the fastest way to get from Fredericksburg to Tysons is using 95 and the Beltway. So a new freeway could offer an attractive alternative, and relieve congestion on those stretches of highway.
Logged

1995hoo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13532
  • Age: 48
  • Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 06:53:36 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5938 on: October 13, 2021, 09:36:33 AM »

Have they looked at upgrading the PW Parkway to freeway standards from 95 to 66?
 
A quick google maps search shows that right now, at 8:43 AM EST, the height of the morning rush hour, the fastest way to get from Fredericksburg to Tysons is using 95 and the Beltway. So a new freeway could offer an attractive alternative, and relieve congestion on those stretches of highway.

Seems highly unlikely ever to happen, mostly due to the amount of development along that road in the vicinity of Potomac Mills Mall (the end closer to I-95). If you wanted a freeway route from I-95 to I-66, Route 234 would be a better option than the Prince William Parkway, because it would be less difficult to upgrade, because it makes more logical sense in terms of a direct route for serving traffic coming from the south (or heading south), and because the Prince William Parkway ultimately joins Route 234 anyway. Look at a map and compare the route for traffic coming up from Fredericksburg via I-95 and Route 234 versus I-95 and the Prince William Parkway. If you go all the way to I-66, you wind up at the same place, but the latter route is much further out of the way.
Logged
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kernals12

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1817
  • Love highways and cars. Hate public transit.

  • Location: Suburban Boston
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 10:22:54 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5939 on: October 13, 2021, 10:31:25 AM »

Have they looked at upgrading the PW Parkway to freeway standards from 95 to 66?
 
A quick google maps search shows that right now, at 8:43 AM EST, the height of the morning rush hour, the fastest way to get from Fredericksburg to Tysons is using 95 and the Beltway. So a new freeway could offer an attractive alternative, and relieve congestion on those stretches of highway.

Seems highly unlikely ever to happen, mostly due to the amount of development along that road in the vicinity of Potomac Mills Mall (the end closer to I-95). If you wanted a freeway route from I-95 to I-66, Route 234 would be a better option than the Prince William Parkway, because it would be less difficult to upgrade, because it makes more logical sense in terms of a direct route for serving traffic coming from the south (or heading south), and because the Prince William Parkway ultimately joins Route 234 anyway. Look at a map and compare the route for traffic coming up from Fredericksburg via I-95 and Route 234 versus I-95 and the Prince William Parkway. If you go all the way to I-66, you wind up at the same place, but the latter route is much further out of the way.

I'm envisioning 234 and 28 becoming part of an Outer Beltway.
Logged

ahj2000

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 75
  • Location: VA/NC/DC
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 11:29:14 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5940 on: October 13, 2021, 10:59:15 AM »

Have they looked at upgrading the PW Parkway to freeway standards from 95 to 66?
 
A quick google maps search shows that right now, at 8:43 AM EST, the height of the morning rush hour, the fastest way to get from Fredericksburg to Tysons is using 95 and the Beltway. So a new freeway could offer an attractive alternative, and relieve congestion on those stretches of highway.

Seems highly unlikely ever to happen, mostly due to the amount of development along that road in the vicinity of Potomac Mills Mall (the end closer to I-95). If you wanted a freeway route from I-95 to I-66, Route 234 would be a better option than the Prince William Parkway, because it would be less difficult to upgrade, because it makes more logical sense in terms of a direct route for serving traffic coming from the south (or heading south), and because the Prince William Parkway ultimately joins Route 234 anyway. Look at a map and compare the route for traffic coming up from Fredericksburg via I-95 and Route 234 versus I-95 and the Prince William Parkway. If you go all the way to I-66, you wind up at the same place, but the latter route is much further out of the way.

I'm envisioning 234 and 28 becoming part of an Outer Beltway.
234 is kind of far out but is is built already….
Logged

kernals12

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1817
  • Love highways and cars. Hate public transit.

  • Location: Suburban Boston
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 10:22:54 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5941 on: October 13, 2021, 12:00:44 PM »

Have they looked at upgrading the PW Parkway to freeway standards from 95 to 66?
 
A quick google maps search shows that right now, at 8:43 AM EST, the height of the morning rush hour, the fastest way to get from Fredericksburg to Tysons is using 95 and the Beltway. So a new freeway could offer an attractive alternative, and relieve congestion on those stretches of highway.

Seems highly unlikely ever to happen, mostly due to the amount of development along that road in the vicinity of Potomac Mills Mall (the end closer to I-95). If you wanted a freeway route from I-95 to I-66, Route 234 would be a better option than the Prince William Parkway, because it would be less difficult to upgrade, because it makes more logical sense in terms of a direct route for serving traffic coming from the south (or heading south), and because the Prince William Parkway ultimately joins Route 234 anyway. Look at a map and compare the route for traffic coming up from Fredericksburg via I-95 and Route 234 versus I-95 and the Prince William Parkway. If you go all the way to I-66, you wind up at the same place, but the latter route is much further out of the way.

I'm envisioning 234 and 28 becoming part of an Outer Beltway.
234 is kind of far out but is is built already….
And it connects to VA 28, which already is mostly a freeway and goes by Dulles Airport.
Logged

Dirt Roads

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1138
  • Location: Central North Carolina
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 10:22:49 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5942 on: October 13, 2021, 02:15:49 PM »

Seems highly unlikely ever to happen, mostly due to the amount of development along that road in the vicinity of Potomac Mills Mall (the end closer to I-95). If you wanted a freeway route from I-95 to I-66, Route 234 would be a better option than the Prince William Parkway, because it would be less difficult to upgrade, because it makes more logical sense in terms of a direct route for serving traffic coming from the south (or heading south), and because the Prince William Parkway ultimately joins Route 234 anyway. Look at a map and compare the route for traffic coming up from Fredericksburg via I-95 and Route 234 versus I-95 and the Prince William Parkway. If you go all the way to I-66, you wind up at the same place, but the latter route is much further out of the way.

I'm envisioning 234 and 28 becoming part of an Outer Beltway.

234 is kind of far out but is is built already….

And it connects to VA 28, which already is mostly a freeway and goes by Dulles Airport.

Ouch!  Even 20 years ago, it was not an easy trip to take VA-234 to VA-28 and fight your way through Manassas.  It was much easier to take the Prince Bill (now VA-294) to Liberia Avenue and bypass around the east side of Manassas.  I can imagine that anything leading to VA-28 these days is quite slow.  (Back in those days, I was very familiar with both routes and knew when it would work out timewise, so I still used VA-234 to/from VA-28 quite a bit). 
Logged

odditude

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 634
  • Location: NOVA
  • Last Login: Today at 01:11:14 AM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5943 on: October 13, 2021, 06:32:37 PM »

Seems highly unlikely ever to happen, mostly due to the amount of development along that road in the vicinity of Potomac Mills Mall (the end closer to I-95). If you wanted a freeway route from I-95 to I-66, Route 234 would be a better option than the Prince William Parkway, because it would be less difficult to upgrade, because it makes more logical sense in terms of a direct route for serving traffic coming from the south (or heading south), and because the Prince William Parkway ultimately joins Route 234 anyway. Look at a map and compare the route for traffic coming up from Fredericksburg via I-95 and Route 234 versus I-95 and the Prince William Parkway. If you go all the way to I-66, you wind up at the same place, but the latter route is much further out of the way.

I'm envisioning 234 and 28 becoming part of an Outer Beltway.

234 is kind of far out but is is built already….

And it connects to VA 28, which already is mostly a freeway and goes by Dulles Airport.

Ouch!  Even 20 years ago, it was not an easy trip to take VA-234 to VA-28 and fight your way through Manassas.  It was much easier to take the Prince Bill (now VA-294) to Liberia Avenue and bypass around the east side of Manassas.  I can imagine that anything leading to VA-28 these days is quite slow.  (Back in those days, I was very familiar with both routes and knew when it would work out timewise, so I still used VA-234 to/from VA-28 quite a bit).

remember, VA 28 is only a freeway north of I-66 - and any plans to extend the freeway portion south of Fairfax County or create a freeway bypass on the east side of Manassas have been repeatedly shot down.
Logged

kernals12

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1817
  • Love highways and cars. Hate public transit.

  • Location: Suburban Boston
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 10:22:54 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5944 on: October 13, 2021, 07:29:34 PM »

Seems highly unlikely ever to happen, mostly due to the amount of development along that road in the vicinity of Potomac Mills Mall (the end closer to I-95). If you wanted a freeway route from I-95 to I-66, Route 234 would be a better option than the Prince William Parkway, because it would be less difficult to upgrade, because it makes more logical sense in terms of a direct route for serving traffic coming from the south (or heading south), and because the Prince William Parkway ultimately joins Route 234 anyway. Look at a map and compare the route for traffic coming up from Fredericksburg via I-95 and Route 234 versus I-95 and the Prince William Parkway. If you go all the way to I-66, you wind up at the same place, but the latter route is much further out of the way.

I'm envisioning 234 and 28 becoming part of an Outer Beltway.

234 is kind of far out but is is built already….

And it connects to VA 28, which already is mostly a freeway and goes by Dulles Airport.

Ouch!  Even 20 years ago, it was not an easy trip to take VA-234 to VA-28 and fight your way through Manassas.  It was much easier to take the Prince Bill (now VA-294) to Liberia Avenue and bypass around the east side of Manassas.  I can imagine that anything leading to VA-28 these days is quite slow.  (Back in those days, I was very familiar with both routes and knew when it would work out timewise, so I still used VA-234 to/from VA-28 quite a bit).

remember, VA 28 is only a freeway north of I-66 - and any plans to extend the freeway portion south of Fairfax County or create a freeway bypass on the east side of Manassas have been repeatedly shot down.

But they're going ahead with a western bypass.
Logged

froggie

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 12063
  • Location: Greensboro, VT
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 11:06:35 PM
    • Froggie's Place
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5945 on: October 13, 2021, 09:03:13 PM »

That's not set in stone either, nevermind that what's being proposed doesn't tie directly into 66...
Logged

sprjus4

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 7097
  • Location: Hampton Roads, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 02:06:57 AM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5946 on: October 13, 2021, 09:36:11 PM »

That's not set in stone either, nevermind that what's being proposed doesn't tie directly into 66...
And it’s not a freeway design to begin with.
Logged

ARMOURERERIC

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1148
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Morganton NC
  • Last Login: Today at 12:02:08 AM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5947 on: October 13, 2021, 09:51:26 PM »

Should their not be a 3rd control city on that BGS for a 3 west destination.
Logged

kernals12

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1817
  • Love highways and cars. Hate public transit.

  • Location: Suburban Boston
  • Last Login: December 02, 2021, 10:22:54 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5948 on: October 13, 2021, 11:24:56 PM »

That's not set in stone either, nevermind that what's being proposed doesn't tie directly into 66...
They're widening VA 28 north of the planned bypass to 6 lanes.

We saw this play out with VA 7. First they widen it from 2 lanes to a 4 lane divided highway, then they widen it to 6 lanes, then they replace signalized intersections with interchanges and before you know it, your country road is now a freeway.
Logged

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11120
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: November 20, 2021, 05:57:02 PM
Re: Virginia
« Reply #5949 on: October 14, 2021, 08:50:29 AM »

But they're going ahead with a western bypass.

Ever heard of the Montgomery County, Maryland Agricultural Reserve?
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.