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Author Topic: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?  (Read 7828 times)

Roadgeekteen

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2021, 02:12:44 PM »

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it. Not worth the hassles encountered now at the US Border for the little time and mileage saved:

Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Duluth: 21 hrs and 1975 km
Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay: 22 hrs and 2080 km
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Toronto,+ON,+Canada/Winnipeg,+MB,+Canada/@45.6613025,-92.8604282,6z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d4cb90d7c63ba5:0x323555502ab4c477!2m2!1d-79.3831843!2d43.653226!1m5!1m1!1s0x52ea73fbf91a2b11:0x2b2a1afac6b9ca64!2m2!1d-97.1383744!2d49.895136!3e0

Toronto to Winnipeg via Chicago is faster
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ghYHZ

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2021, 02:20:29 PM »

Toronto to Winnipeg via Chicago is faster

Does that include the delays at the the border and traffic through Chicago? For a hour and a half time saving....again not worth the hassle!
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vdeane

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2021, 07:50:00 PM »

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it. Not worth the hassles encountered now at the US Border for the little time and mileage saved:

Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Duluth: 21 hrs and 1975 km
Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay: 22 hrs and 2080 km 
Surprised you missed the obvious one: Toronto-Winnipeg via Detroit and Chicago: 20-21 hours and 2211 km, and nearly all freeway outside of Manitoba.  Google doesn't even like the Duluth route - have to get clever about setting a point to make it do that one.  The default route uses the ferry over Lake Michigan.

Yea a grid wouldn't really work for Canada's geography. I may start a fictional Canada national highway numbering system thread soon, though I would give the lower numbers to important routes instead of using a grid, and continue from there. Like Highway 1 to the TCH mainline, Highway 2 to the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, and so on.

Save your time and effort...as I noted above highways are a Provincial/Territorial jurisdiction not Federal. We can't even get two provinces to agree on Covid Quarantine requirements between each! Just like our national Health Care.....the Feds contribute to the funding but it's administered by the provinces.
The US routes are state jurisdiction and not federal too.  The federal government isn't even remotely involved in them (AASHTO is a voluntary organization of the state DOTs).  The interstates are also largely state jurisdiction too, though FHWA has interest in them.  I've never understood the places that tie route shields to ownership/maintenance jurisdiction.
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Rothman

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2021, 08:16:09 PM »

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it. Not worth the hassles encountered now at the US Border for the little time and mileage saved:

Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Duluth: 21 hrs and 1975 km
Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay: 22 hrs and 2080 km 
Surprised you missed the obvious one: Toronto-Winnipeg via Detroit and Chicago: 20-21 hours and 2211 km, and nearly all freeway outside of Manitoba.  Google doesn't even like the Duluth route - have to get clever about setting a point to make it do that one.  The default route uses the ferry over Lake Michigan.

Yea a grid wouldn't really work for Canada's geography. I may start a fictional Canada national highway numbering system thread soon, though I would give the lower numbers to important routes instead of using a grid, and continue from there. Like Highway 1 to the TCH mainline, Highway 2 to the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, and so on.

Save your time and effort...as I noted above highways are a Provincial/Territorial jurisdiction not Federal. We can't even get two provinces to agree on Covid Quarantine requirements between each! Just like our national Health Care.....the Feds contribute to the funding but it's administered by the provinces.
The US routes are state jurisdiction and not federal too.  The federal government isn't even remotely involved in them (AASHTO is a voluntary organization of the state DOTs).  The interstates are also largely state jurisdiction too, though FHWA has interest in them.  I've never understood the places that tie route shields to ownership/maintenance jurisdiction.
Well...you can spend federal funds on US Highways, which requires FHWA signoff.
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vdeane

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2021, 08:51:01 PM »

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it. Not worth the hassles encountered now at the US Border for the little time and mileage saved:

Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Duluth: 21 hrs and 1975 km
Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay: 22 hrs and 2080 km 
Surprised you missed the obvious one: Toronto-Winnipeg via Detroit and Chicago: 20-21 hours and 2211 km, and nearly all freeway outside of Manitoba.  Google doesn't even like the Duluth route - have to get clever about setting a point to make it do that one.  The default route uses the ferry over Lake Michigan.

Yea a grid wouldn't really work for Canada's geography. I may start a fictional Canada national highway numbering system thread soon, though I would give the lower numbers to important routes instead of using a grid, and continue from there. Like Highway 1 to the TCH mainline, Highway 2 to the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, and so on.

Save your time and effort...as I noted above highways are a Provincial/Territorial jurisdiction not Federal. We can't even get two provinces to agree on Covid Quarantine requirements between each! Just like our national Health Care.....the Feds contribute to the funding but it's administered by the provinces.
The US routes are state jurisdiction and not federal too.  The federal government isn't even remotely involved in them (AASHTO is a voluntary organization of the state DOTs).  The interstates are also largely state jurisdiction too, though FHWA has interest in them.  I've never understood the places that tie route shields to ownership/maintenance jurisdiction.
Well...you can spend federal funds on US Highways, which requires FHWA signoff.
You can spend federal funds on most state routes and many local routes too.  That's because of the NHS and federal aid systems, not because US routes are somehow special.
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dmuzika

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2021, 02:02:35 AM »

To answer the original question, the Trans-Canada Highway's original alignment is part of a compromise. According to A Road for Canada: The Illustrated Story of the Trans‑Canada (Daniel Francis, 2006), when the Trans-Canada Highway alignment was being determined, it was originally envisioned as a single coast-to-coast highway, as opposed to the multiple routes that exist today. The more direct all-Canadian route from Quebec to Western Canada (preferred by TCH planners) was to go through Ottawa and Northern Ontario, bypassing the more-populated Southern Ontario; however, the Ontario provincial preferred a route that passed further south along the St. Lawrence River. A compromise was reached where it would follow what is now known as the "Central Ontario Route" and "Georgian Route" between Ottawa and Sudbury (Hwy 17 between Sudbury and Ottawa was added to TCH later on).

In reality, it served neither route, except for the fine folks of Peterborough, especially when Hwy 401 was built. If ever there could be a section of highway that could become the "Historical Trans-Canada Highway", that could probably be it. It would make more sense to reroute it to follow Hwys 400 & 401 through Toronto.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2021, 02:06:41 AM »

To answer the original question, the Trans-Canada Highway's original alignment is part of a compromise. According to A Road for Canada: The Illustrated Story of the Trans‑Canada (Daniel Francis, 2006), when the Trans-Canada Highway alignment was being determined, it was originally envisioned as a single coast-to-coast highway, as opposed to the multiple routes that exist today. The more direct all-Canadian route from Quebec to Western Canada (preferred by TCH planners) was to go through Ottawa and Northern Ontario, bypassing the more-populated Southern Ontario; however, the Ontario provincial preferred a route that passed further south along the St. Lawrence River. A compromise was reached where it would follow what is now known as the "Central Ontario Route" and "Georgian Route" between Ottawa and Sudbury (Hwy 17 between Sudbury and Ottawa was added to TCH later on).

In reality, it served neither route, except for the fine folks of Peterborough, especially when Hwy 401 was built. If ever there could be a section of highway that could become the "Historical Trans-Canada Highway", that could probably be it. It would make more sense to reroute it to follow Hwys 400 & 401 through Toronto.
The highway should have Niagara Falls and Windsor branches.
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ghYHZ

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2021, 04:33:52 AM »

The highway should have Niagara Falls and Windsor branches.

it already does.....the QEW and the 401.
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Rothman

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2021, 06:19:24 AM »

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it. Not worth the hassles encountered now at the US Border for the little time and mileage saved:

Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Duluth: 21 hrs and 1975 km
Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay: 22 hrs and 2080 km 
Surprised you missed the obvious one: Toronto-Winnipeg via Detroit and Chicago: 20-21 hours and 2211 km, and nearly all freeway outside of Manitoba.  Google doesn't even like the Duluth route - have to get clever about setting a point to make it do that one.  The default route uses the ferry over Lake Michigan.

Yea a grid wouldn't really work for Canada's geography. I may start a fictional Canada national highway numbering system thread soon, though I would give the lower numbers to important routes instead of using a grid, and continue from there. Like Highway 1 to the TCH mainline, Highway 2 to the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, and so on.

Save your time and effort...as I noted above highways are a Provincial/Territorial jurisdiction not Federal. We can't even get two provinces to agree on Covid Quarantine requirements between each! Just like our national Health Care.....the Feds contribute to the funding but it's administered by the provinces.
The US routes are state jurisdiction and not federal too.  The federal government isn't even remotely involved in them (AASHTO is a voluntary organization of the state DOTs).  The interstates are also largely state jurisdiction too, though FHWA has interest in them.  I've never understood the places that tie route shields to ownership/maintenance jurisdiction.
Well...you can spend federal funds on US Highways, which requires FHWA signoff.
You can spend federal funds on most state routes and many local routes too.  That's because of the NHS and federal aid systems, not because US routes are somehow special.
Sure, but we were talking about the federal government being involved with US highways. Because of broad Federal funding eligibility, there's always some level of involvement.
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GaryV

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2021, 08:37:29 AM »

But via Detroit and Chicago, it's under 21 hours, even though it's 2223 km.

Even if you decided to go through Duluth, it's under 21 hours to go via Sarnia and through Michigan.

I suspect the further west you go (e.g. Calgary, Vancouver) the more distance driving through the US the more your time is reduced compared to an all-Canada route.

Of course all this assumes that you are allowed to cross the border.
 
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froggie

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2021, 09:51:38 AM »

FWIW, going from northern Vermont to Minneapolis via Canada may only save me an hour, but it also saves me over 100 miles.
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vdeane

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2021, 02:05:35 PM »

To answer the original question, the Trans-Canada Highway's original alignment is part of a compromise. According to A Road for Canada: The Illustrated Story of the Trans‑Canada (Daniel Francis, 2006), when the Trans-Canada Highway alignment was being determined, it was originally envisioned as a single coast-to-coast highway, as opposed to the multiple routes that exist today. The more direct all-Canadian route from Quebec to Western Canada (preferred by TCH planners) was to go through Ottawa and Northern Ontario, bypassing the more-populated Southern Ontario; however, the Ontario provincial preferred a route that passed further south along the St. Lawrence River. A compromise was reached where it would follow what is now known as the "Central Ontario Route" and "Georgian Route" between Ottawa and Sudbury (Hwy 17 between Sudbury and Ottawa was added to TCH later on).

In reality, it served neither route, except for the fine folks of Peterborough, especially when Hwy 401 was built. If ever there could be a section of highway that could become the "Historical Trans-Canada Highway", that could probably be it. It would make more sense to reroute it to follow Hwys 400 & 401 through Toronto.
Didn't ON 11 from North Bay to Nipigon also predate ON 17 along Lake Superior?  How did the connection from Sudbury to ON 11 work, then?  Did it backtrack to North Bay?

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it. Not worth the hassles encountered now at the US Border for the little time and mileage saved:

Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Duluth: 21 hrs and 1975 km
Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay: 22 hrs and 2080 km 
Surprised you missed the obvious one: Toronto-Winnipeg via Detroit and Chicago: 20-21 hours and 2211 km, and nearly all freeway outside of Manitoba.  Google doesn't even like the Duluth route - have to get clever about setting a point to make it do that one.  The default route uses the ferry over Lake Michigan.

Yea a grid wouldn't really work for Canada's geography. I may start a fictional Canada national highway numbering system thread soon, though I would give the lower numbers to important routes instead of using a grid, and continue from there. Like Highway 1 to the TCH mainline, Highway 2 to the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, and so on.

Save your time and effort...as I noted above highways are a Provincial/Territorial jurisdiction not Federal. We can't even get two provinces to agree on Covid Quarantine requirements between each! Just like our national Health Care.....the Feds contribute to the funding but it's administered by the provinces.
The US routes are state jurisdiction and not federal too.  The federal government isn't even remotely involved in them (AASHTO is a voluntary organization of the state DOTs).  The interstates are also largely state jurisdiction too, though FHWA has interest in them.  I've never understood the places that tie route shields to ownership/maintenance jurisdiction.
Well...you can spend federal funds on US Highways, which requires FHWA signoff.
You can spend federal funds on most state routes and many local routes too.  That's because of the NHS and federal aid systems, not because US routes are somehow special.
Sure, but we were talking about the federal government being involved with US highways. Because of broad Federal funding eligibility, there's always some level of involvement.
You're getting pedantic.  The point is that there's nothing special about the shield, and there's no more involvement with US routes than with any other road (unlike, say, the interstates, which have performance measures attached, require FHWA approval to designate, new construction must meet federal standards or have approved exemptions, etc.).  ghYHZ was making it sound like a federal route system require the federal government to own the roads (a la Mexico) or at least be as involved as the US federal government is with the interstates.  The point is that a country-wide numbering system on important routes does not require such.
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andrepoiy

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2021, 02:26:33 PM »

Honestly, Ontario operates on the "signs indicate who owns the road", and that's probably why we think that the federal government must own those roads to be able to sign it as a national road.
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dmuzika

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2021, 08:16:33 PM »

To answer the original question, the Trans-Canada Highway's original alignment is part of a compromise. According to A Road for Canada: The Illustrated Story of the Trans‑Canada (Daniel Francis, 2006), when the Trans-Canada Highway alignment was being determined, it was originally envisioned as a single coast-to-coast highway, as opposed to the multiple routes that exist today. The more direct all-Canadian route from Quebec to Western Canada (preferred by TCH planners) was to go through Ottawa and Northern Ontario, bypassing the more-populated Southern Ontario; however, the Ontario provincial preferred a route that passed further south along the St. Lawrence River. A compromise was reached where it would follow what is now known as the "Central Ontario Route" and "Georgian Route" between Ottawa and Sudbury (Hwy 17 between Sudbury and Ottawa was added to TCH later on).

In reality, it served neither route, except for the fine folks of Peterborough, especially when Hwy 401 was built. If ever there could be a section of highway that could become the "Historical Trans-Canada Highway", that could probably be it. It would make more sense to reroute it to follow Hwys 400 & 401 through Toronto.
Didn't ON 11 from North Bay to Nipigon also predate ON 17 along Lake Superior?  How did the connection from Sudbury to ON 11 work, then?  Did it backtrack to North Bay?

ON 11 predates ON 17 in crossing Northern Ontario, but ON 17 around Lake Superior was constructed as part of the original Trans-Canada Highway (post WWII). As I understand, ON 11 was added later.

The same applies to TCH 1 in BC. The first Trans-Provincial Highway was BC 3, with the section between Revelstoke and Golden being constructed as the part of the upgrades and the site of the official grand opening being located at Rogers Pass. The two towns were originally connected by the Big Bend Highway which followed the Columbia River (BC 23 north is part of the original route with other sections flooded when the dam was built), but it was an extra 5 hours of travel time. In the winter the section was closed and cars were ferried in railway cars.
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dmuzika

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2021, 12:42:20 AM »

Yea a grid wouldn't really work for Canada's geography. I may start a fictional Canada national highway numbering system thread soon, though I would give the lower numbers to important routes instead of using a grid, and continue from there. Like Highway 1 to the TCH mainline, Highway 2 to the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, and so on.

Save your time and effort...as I noted above highways are a Provincial/Territorial jurisdiction not Federal. We can't even get two provinces to agree on Covid Quarantine requirements between each! Just like our national Health Care.....the Feds contribute to the funding but it's administered by the provinces.

Here in Nova Scotia.....TCH104 free-flows onto TCH2 at the New Brunswick border. It's not like I have to come off in Amherst and drive the back streets looking for a road to Moncton. And once in New Brunswick......at Riverglade I can take NB1 to US1 at St. Stephen/Calais and NB95 just flows onto I-95 at Woodstock/Houlton. At the Quebec Border TCH2 becomes A-85   

Ontario and Quebec...... the two most populous Provinces have only two major highway crossings: A-20 to ON401 and A-40 to ON417 (TCH). There are also 5 bridges at Ottawa/Gatineau and the northern TCH route (QC117/ON66) in the Abitibi-Temiscamingue  The other routes are secondary including a couple of bridges and ferries across the Ottawa River.

And at the Ontario Manitoba Border there is but one single two-lane highway...the TCH and it's not even a divided highway. There's also a single Canadian National Railway track and a Canadian Pacific Railway track. That's all that connects eastern and western Canada between the Minnesota Border.....all the way to the Artic. This is fly-over country vs the 1000 mile drive through the woods of Northern Ontario!

It would have been nice if the Atlantic Provinces would have renumbered their highways to have the same number along the TCH, especially since they participated in the consistently numbered Route 2 between Halifax and Windsor, ON.

Out west they seemed more willing to renumber highways to make way for the TCH.  Alberta switched its Hwys 1 & 2 while Saskatchewan switched its Hwys 1 & 4 designations for the mainline. For the Yellowhead, Manitoba renumbered Hwy 4 while Saskatchewan renumbered sections of Hwy 5 (west of Saskatoon), Hwy 14 (east of Saskatoon), and its original Hwy 16 (present-day Hwy 48).

Quebec and Ontario will do whatever they want.  :biggrin:
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SkyPesos

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2021, 09:04:49 AM »

^ I thought the highway number 1 isn’t currently used in Ontario. If they’re forced to change over their section of the TCH to highway 1, it shouldn’t be that hard for them. Quebec is a different story.
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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2021, 02:02:23 PM »

^ I thought the highway number 1 isn’t currently used in Ontario. If they’re forced to change over their section of the TCH to highway 1, it shouldn’t be that hard for them. Quebec is a different story.

Politics aside, renumbering Hwy 17 to Hwy 1 seems pretty doable. What would you do with Hwy 417? It would be a hard sell to renumber Hwy 401 to match the new Hwy 1. Would you renumber Hwy 417 to Hwy 1 as well?

I wonder if Quebec could be convinced to renumber its TCH mainline to A-10 (basically 01 reversed)? It wouldn't follow the grid but might work. Saying that, they would probably be very resistant to any change.
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ghYHZ

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2021, 06:12:13 PM »

And in Nova Scotia......Freeways/Controlled Access Highways are in the 100 Series. Currently the TCH is 104, 105 and 106.

NS101 and it's original parallel alignment is Trunk 1 through the Annapolis Valley between Halifax and Yarmouth and about 90 km from the closest point on the  Trans Canada.

If you took that '1' for the Trans Canada it would no longer follow the NS designation for a  Freeway/Controlled Access Highway.

A costly renumbering of the Province's highways for no good reason.
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zzcarp

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #44 on: June 29, 2021, 07:46:24 PM »

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it. Not worth the hassles encountered now at the US Border for the little time and mileage saved:

Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Duluth: 21 hrs and 1975 km
Toronto-Winnipeg via Sault Ste Marie and Thunder Bay: 22 hrs and 2080 km

Pre-COVID-19, that is simply not true. Even with the US border security theater inconvenience, many Canadians still used the roads in the States to get from one part of Canada to the other. Our gas is cheaper, our speed limits are higher, and any other goods one buys along the way are cheaper and taxed less. And the farther west one is traveling, the more the savings time-wise.
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dmuzika

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2021, 08:51:25 PM »

And in Nova Scotia......Freeways/Controlled Access Highways are in the 100 Series. Currently the TCH is 104, 105 and 106.

NS101 and it's original parallel alignment is Trunk 1 through the Annapolis Valley between Halifax and Yarmouth and about 90 km from the closest point on the  Trans Canada.

If you took that '1' for the Trans Canada it would no longer follow the NS designation for a  Freeway/Controlled Access Highway.

A costly renumbering of the Province's highways for no good reason.


Just switch 1 w/ 4 and 101 w/ 104. All good.

Back to reality, are there plans to move the TCH designation to Hwy 104 on Cape Breton Island if/when it's extended to Sydney? It's interesting that TCH 105 is the only section of the TCH that's not considered part of the National Highway System.

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JREwing78

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2021, 12:49:25 AM »

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it.

A lot of Canadians *can't* do it - apparently freight with both a Canadian origin and destination has to remain within Canadian borders (for customs reasons). So a freight load from Nova Scotia to Alberta has to go through Quebec and Ontario despite being cheaper and faster to go through the States.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2021, 01:24:06 AM »

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it.

A lot of Canadians *can't* do it - apparently freight with both a Canadian origin and destination has to remain within Canadian borders (for customs reasons). So a freight load from Nova Scotia to Alberta has to go through Quebec and Ontario despite being cheaper and faster to go through the States.
Yeah trucks are a different story than cars.
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rickmastfan67

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2021, 03:58:26 AM »

^ I thought the highway number 1 isn’t currently used in Ontario. If they’re forced to change over their section of the TCH to highway 1, it shouldn’t be that hard for them. Quebec is a different story.

Politics aside, renumbering Hwy 17 to Hwy 1 seems pretty doable. What would you do with Hwy 417? It would be a hard sell to renumber Hwy 401 to match the new Hwy 1. Would you renumber Hwy 417 to Hwy 1 as well?

Simple. make it 4001.  :bigass:

froggie

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Re: Why doesn't the Trans Canadian Highway serve Toronto?
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2021, 10:59:07 AM »

When driving between western and eastern Canada it's faster to go through the US.

Unless it was for essential travel.......that hasn't been possible for the past 16 months. And besides.....a lot of Canadians just wouldn't do it.

A lot of Canadians *can't* do it - apparently freight with both a Canadian origin and destination has to remain within Canadian borders (for customs reasons). So a freight load from Nova Scotia to Alberta has to go through Quebec and Ontario despite being cheaper and faster to go through the States.

I realize we're talking about driving here, but I'm not certain this freight requirement is true for trains.  CN has a mainline that passes through two northern Minnesota counties (between Warroad and Baudette).
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