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Windows 11

Started by JoePCool14, October 05, 2021, 04:59:38 PM

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Will you upgrade to Windows 11?

Yes, as soon as possible. OR I already have.
4 (8.7%)
Yes, but I'm going to wait.
15 (32.6%)
Not for the foreseeable future.
20 (43.5%)
Never.
7 (15.2%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Voting closed: November 04, 2021, 05:00:55 PM

JoePCool14

Quote from: jakeroot on October 06, 2021, 10:03:52 PM
I am using Windows 11. I completed the upgrade today.

Overall? Not much to say yet, but there are two features that I appreciate quite a lot using an odd 32:9 monitor:

* 1: the centered taskbar is much easier for me to manage/access. I access most functions using shortcut keys, so the whole issue of the hitbox constantly moving is not an issue.
* 2: the ability to size/shape windows using the middle-button dropdown is an awesome feature, and makes using a wide monitor much easier.

Those are definitely two positives in Windows 11's favor. My family finds ultrawide monitors all the rage currently, so they've purchased several for use at work and at home. I think a centered taskbar would work especially well on those. And the new snap menu is also really nice, for the same reason.

Also, I made one quick change to the poll. The first option is now also for those who have already made the switch like jakeroot.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged


tolbs17

Quote from: JoePCool14 on October 06, 2021, 11:03:17 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 06, 2021, 10:03:52 PM
I am using Windows 11. I completed the upgrade today.

Overall? Not much to say yet, but there are two features that I appreciate quite a lot using an odd 32:9 monitor:

* 1: the centered taskbar is much easier for me to manage/access. I access most functions using shortcut keys, so the whole issue of the hitbox constantly moving is not an issue.
* 2: the ability to size/shape windows using the middle-button dropdown is an awesome feature, and makes using a wide monitor much easier.

Those are definitely two positives in Windows 11's favor. My family finds ultrawide monitors all the rage currently, so they've purchased several for use at work and at home. I think a centered taskbar would work especially well on those. And the new snap menu is also really nice, for the same reason.

Also, I made one quick change to the poll. The first option is now also for those who have already made the switch like jakeroot.
And with you and jakeroot saying that, I'm eager for Windows 11. I'm excited to get it!!! I probably can try to get it on this computer, but I don't want to fuck it up cause Windows Security check clearly says that my computer is not compatible with Windows 11. So that leaves me no choice but to get a new computer. I may think about it for Christmas.

Windows 11 had the startup sound brought back I heard, and I really want to see what it's like...






ozarkman417

Enabling TPM 2.0 only took a few clicks in my BIOS settings and only a couple of minutes, so now I am all set to upgrade my Gaming Desktop to Windows 11, but won't do so until I get to try Windows 11 on my new laptop, set to ship in less than two weeks.

tolbs17

Quote from: ozarkman417 on October 07, 2021, 12:03:36 AM
Enabling TPM 2.0 only took a few clicks in my BIOS settings and only a couple of minutes, so now I am all set to upgrade my Gaming Desktop to Windows 11, but won't do so until I get to try Windows 11 on my new laptop, set to ship in less than two weeks.
I looked deep into doing that and I saw no such option, so I just gave up on trying to do that.

Techknow

TPM 2.0 is often not available in desktop motherboards are is disabled, but it's possible to buy a TPM chip board which has a 7x2 header insert and insert it to TPM headers in a motherboard. I guess if one is tech-savvy enough that's a cheap solution to satisfy the TPM requirement.

Laptop motherboards on the hand do in fact have TPM 2.0, at least over the last few years. My 2.5 year old laptop meets all the requirements for Windows 11 apparently!



However I won't upgrade to Windows 11 just yet. For whatever reason Windows 10 had all sorts of bugs in the first couple of years after release and I deal with a couple bugs from time to time (one is which is thumbnails on Windows Explorer stop working and starts magically working again 15 minutes later so I use a program called XnViewMP to do what Windows Explorer should be able to do.) and I expect the same to be true for Windows 11. Even then not all of its gaming features are available, the DirectStorage tech sounds interesting but we need to wait for games to be released that support it!

Scott5114

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 06, 2021, 09:28:36 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 06, 2021, 08:59:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 06, 2021, 03:45:13 AM
↑ I've never used Mint, just Fedora and Ubuntu (and a brief period of SuSE way back at the start of my Linux journey). What do you like about it?

I'm not sure what KeithE4Phx thinks of it, but I also run Mint so I'll comment here.  I actually started using it because it's a stable system that has MATE/Cinnamon editions, and I figure why not just run a version that uses the preferred DE (I've run both over the years) rather than a system where I'd have to install it and then have multiple on the system, one of which wouldn't be used (yes, my OCD organizational tendencies does extend to computer file systems, why do you ask?).

I've been running Mint since 2014.  It's no more perfect than any OS (and, for the record, no OS is perfect), but if you're coming from Windows, the Mate and Cinnamon GUIs are close to it.  I prefer to use XFCE because it is a bit faster and my machines are not speed demons by 2021 standards.  But then, I'm a ham operator, not a gamer, so speed isn't as critical. 

Fair enough, I suppose. I first got into the Linux game when Windows XP, KDE 3, and GNOME 2 were current. At the time I found KDE was a lot closer to the Windows GUI than GNOME was, and it has stayed really more or less the same in terms of general UI design since then. I haven't ever used MATE or Cinnamon, but from a glance at some screenshots, looks like they're stay-the-course forks created when GNOME 3 went off the deep end, so I suppose if that's what Mint offers it's not really for me.

I suppose it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for me to stick with Fedora and Ubuntu given their treatment of KDE as a second-fiddle DE, but they're what I'm used to, and I have the technical ability to install KDE alongside whatever they ship with, so it's not an issue that bothers me.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

doorknob60

I'm not sure if I'll ever install it. I currently use Linux 99% of the time on my PC. I do have Windows 10 installed as well but I almost never use it. I see no reason to bother upgrading that to Windows 11. Especially with the secure boot and TPM requirements. I believe my hardware supports it, but I don't want to bother messing with the settings.

kalvado

Quote from: doorknob60 on October 07, 2021, 02:48:17 PM
I'm not sure if I'll ever install it. I currently use Linux 99% of the time on my PC. I do have Windows 10 installed as well but I almost never use it. I see no reason to bother upgrading that to Windows 11. Especially with the secure boot and TPM requirements. I believe my hardware supports it, but I don't want to bother messing with the settings.
And, if anything, I see a big problem looming for MS. More and more people say "I just use Linux". With alienating at least a portion of users, they really risk ending up loosing the market.
Of course, they have lion share and are too big to fail. But at some point a last straw may hit them back.

stormwatch7721

My laptop is eligible for the update. I'll install as soon as it's offered.

Pink Jazz

I updated my desktop, but will hold off on my laptop due to Ryzen processor issues and some incompatible software.

JoePCool14

Quote from: kalvado on October 07, 2021, 03:11:43 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on October 07, 2021, 02:48:17 PM
I'm not sure if I'll ever install it. I currently use Linux 99% of the time on my PC. I do have Windows 10 installed as well but I almost never use it. I see no reason to bother upgrading that to Windows 11. Especially with the secure boot and TPM requirements. I believe my hardware supports it, but I don't want to bother messing with the settings.
And, if anything, I see a big problem looming for MS. More and more people say "I just use Linux". With alienating at least a portion of users, they really risk ending up loosing the market.
Of course, they have lion share and are too big to fail. But at some point a last straw may hit them back.

They are definitely still "too big to fail". The average PC user (and then some) has no idea that Linux even exists, let alone is able to understand how to install and use it. Even I don't know much about it, and I'm a decently avid tech user. I think I could figure it out if I tried though.

Maybe I'll switch to macOS.  :)

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

jakeroot

That ChromeOS has overtaken Linux is quite telling. Most people don't use Linux because they don't need to.

kalvado

Quote from: JoePCool14 on October 07, 2021, 03:42:45 PM
Quote from: kalvado on October 07, 2021, 03:11:43 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on October 07, 2021, 02:48:17 PM
I'm not sure if I'll ever install it. I currently use Linux 99% of the time on my PC. I do have Windows 10 installed as well but I almost never use it. I see no reason to bother upgrading that to Windows 11. Especially with the secure boot and TPM requirements. I believe my hardware supports it, but I don't want to bother messing with the settings.
And, if anything, I see a big problem looming for MS. More and more people say "I just use Linux". With alienating at least a portion of users, they really risk ending up loosing the market.
Of course, they have lion share and are too big to fail. But at some point a last straw may hit them back.

They are definitely still "too big to fail". The average PC user (and then some) has no idea that Linux even exists, let alone is able to understand how to install and use it. Even I don't know much about it, and I'm a decently avid tech user. I think I could figure it out if I tried though.

Maybe I'll switch to macOS.  :)
I, for one, tried Linux about 10 years ago (and once or twice before that) with limited success (special thanks to Gnome 3, though, for last failure) and forgot about it for a while.  I did put together a desktop during lockdown - I had a few components sitting around, and large monitor I gave myself as a birthday present couldn't work with my laptop.  So, I bought a few more parts for  a brand new desktop and.. there is some time to waste, why not try Linux again?
Now that desktop runs Linux - and there are very few things I have problems with. Web-based office365 is not ideal, but it works. Zoom and Webex  have minor issues (and not that they work 100% smoothly on windows laptop). Some very old, but very specific CAD runs under wine pretty well.
And, interestingly enough, I do hear "I use Linux" all the time, such as 3 people in this thread saying that.

So, you can give it a try as well. No commitment required - just a USB drive. https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/try-ubuntu-before-you-install#1-getting-started




Scott5114

Quote from: kalvado on October 07, 2021, 03:11:43 PM
Quote from: doorknob60 on October 07, 2021, 02:48:17 PM
I'm not sure if I'll ever install it. I currently use Linux 99% of the time on my PC. I do have Windows 10 installed as well but I almost never use it. I see no reason to bother upgrading that to Windows 11. Especially with the secure boot and TPM requirements. I believe my hardware supports it, but I don't want to bother messing with the settings.
And, if anything, I see a big problem looming for MS. More and more people say "I just use Linux". With alienating at least a portion of users, they really risk ending up loosing the market.
Of course, they have lion share and are too big to fail. But at some point a last straw may hit them back.

I feel like Linux's recent rise tends to be the confluence of a few things:

1) Linux has matured enough as a desktop that it is not materially harder to use than Windows. There are still some places where Linux is rough around the edges, but they're of comparable difficulty to the places where Windows is rough around the edges.
2) The causal users who are historically Windows users have stopped using desktops at all and now do everything on their smartphones.
3) Big Tech is overplaying its hand. It used to be that spyware was a big security threat, and you'd run antispyware software to remove programs that were snooping on what you were doing. Now that's built into the OS, your browser, and popular websites, and there's little way to avoid it short of using open-source software like Linux and Firefox.

Linux does still have a way to go; it's only at 3% market share at most. But that's still way up from where it used to be.

Quote from: jakeroot on October 07, 2021, 04:18:37 PM
That ChromeOS has overtaken Linux is quite telling. Most people don't use Linux because they don't need to.

ChromeOS is Linux. A pretty sucky graphical shell stacked on top of Linux, but it's Linux.

Android is also Linux.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

KeithE4Phx

Quote from: jakeroot on October 07, 2021, 04:18:37 PM
That ChromeOS has overtaken Linux is quite telling. Most people don't use Linux because they don't need to.

ChromeOS and Android are both Linux-based OSes.  They're just smart to avoid using the Linux name -- which refers to just the kernel, anyway.  All Microsoft OSes from 2000 on use the Windows NT kernel, regardless of what else is included.  No different than the various Linux-based operating systems like Debian, Red Hat, or Mint. 

Thanks to Microsoft FUD of 20+ years ago, the Linux name got a "nerd" stigma that it has yet to shake.  But let's remember that a Linux-based operating system now controls 50% of the mobile device market, with another Unix-based OS controlling the other 50%.  Microsoft has zero market share in the mobile world.  I'm surprised they still have a large majority of desktop users, given what a hot steaming pile of ca-ca Windows is.  Inertia and corporate BS, I guess.
"Oh, so you hate your job? Well, why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called "EVERYBODY!" They meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey

KeithE4Phx

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 07, 2021, 07:02:07 PM
Linux does still have a way to go; it's only at 3% market share at most. But that's still way up from where it used to be.

Maybe 3% of the business/corporate desktop market, mostly in engineering, programming, and IT departments (and my guess is that it's actually much higher in those three areas, but not, say, in sales and marketing).  But by definition, it has 50% of the mobile market, given that the market consists of Apple and Android, and no one else.
"Oh, so you hate your job? Well, why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called "EVERYBODY!" They meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey

jakeroot

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 07, 2021, 07:02:07 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 07, 2021, 04:18:37 PM
That ChromeOS has overtaken Linux is quite telling. Most people don't use Linux because they don't need to.

ChromeOS is Linux. A pretty sucky graphical shell stacked on top of Linux, but it's Linux.

For the purpose of my comment, ChromeOS is counted as a separate desktop OS from Linux, even if, underneath, it's still Linux.

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 07, 2021, 09:56:33 PM
Thanks to Microsoft FUD of 20+ years ago, the Linux name got a "nerd" stigma that it has yet to shake.  But let's remember that a Linux-based operating system now controls 50% of the mobile device market, with another Unix-based OS controlling the other 50%.  Microsoft has zero market share in the mobile world.  I'm surprised they still have a large majority of desktop users, given what a hot steaming pile of ca-ca Windows is.  Inertia and corporate BS, I guess.

But isn't the underlying kernel being the base of so many consumer products good enough? Linux is brilliant when it comes to providing something for someone else to fork into something that their users find useful: Android, for instance, or Xbox, or even a refrigerator or washer/dryer. There are very few people that really need Linux (in whatever distro form) as a desktop operating system.

Scott5114

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on October 07, 2021, 09:56:33 PM
Thanks to Microsoft FUD of 20+ years ago, the Linux name got a "nerd" stigma that it has yet to shake.  But let's remember that a Linux-based operating system now controls 50% of the mobile device market, with another Unix-based OS controlling the other 50%.  Microsoft has zero market share in the mobile world.  I'm surprised they still have a large majority of desktop users, given what a hot steaming pile of ca-ca Windows is.  Inertia and corporate BS, I guess.

Oh, it's entirely due to corporate BS. Paying for hundreds of Windows licenses because the company standardized on some piece of commercial software that only runs on Windows. Even if there's an open-source program that does the same thing, can't change anything on the users because Debra in the dress code enforcement division lost her shit that one time an upgrade added a new icon to the toolbar and the button she needed was no longer the ninth one from the left. (We could require critical thinking of Debra, but that'd make sense, better to yell at IT for "disrupting her workflow".)

Quote from: jakeroot on October 07, 2021, 10:57:12 PM
But isn't the underlying kernel being the base of so many consumer products good enough? Linux is brilliant when it comes to providing something for someone else to fork into something that their users find useful: Android, for instance, or Xbox, or even a refrigerator or washer/dryer. There are very few people that really need Linux (in whatever distro form) as a desktop operating system.

Er...not really. What makes Linux great is that the software is all developed and maintained on a volunteer basis. People write Linux and Linux software because they want to write it. If they're not enjoying themselves, they bow out of development. That means that the developers are proud of their work and aren't cutting corners because they only get paid so much and they just need a quick fix to get their boss off their ass. Software ships when it's ready, not because Marketing promised a big customer we'd have a release by the end of the month, and besides, what are the odds that someone will use that feature with their language set to Norwegian but in the US/Central time zone during Daylight Savings, using a dark mode theme? It's not worth paying someone to spend the time to fix it.

Oh, by the way, Bill (you know, the guy with the masters in business administration? who demanded to know why a software company needed snake cages when he heard someone talking about a Python module? the one who also oversees all the developers?) doesn't like that the options menu has 11 items in it now. He wants it down to five by...Tuesday. Yes, I know it's Thursday. Well, why don't you just delete some of the features then, it's not like anyone uses them...Oh, and it needs to send back usage metrics to Marketing so that we know what all of our users are doing with the software so we can sell their data to advertisers develop more features that we're not allowed to put in the options menu. Tell you what, we'll just have them trigger randomly when the computer thinks someone might possibly be thinking about maybe wanting that feature.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kalvado

Quote from: jakeroot on October 07, 2021, 10:57:12 PM

But isn't the underlying kernel being the base of so many consumer products good enough? Linux is brilliant when it comes to providing something for someone else to fork into something that their users find useful: Android, for instance, or Xbox, or even a refrigerator or washer/dryer. There are very few people that really need Linux (in whatever distro form) as a desktop operating system.
Well, windows is brilliant when it comes to managing an organization with thousands users with tools such as active directory. There are very few people that really need windows (in home or pro form) as a desktop operating system.
Trolling aside, that is exactly why minimalist Chromebook environment is trying to emerge. Current windows is overburdened trying to be everything for everyone where many people need minimal set of functions. End result is a jack of all trades.

ZLoth

I'm holding off on upgrading to Windows 11 until I can build a new box. My current machine was assembled in September, 2014 and is due for a replacement, but I'm waiting until DDR5 memory becomes available and we aren't facing a parts shortage, including high performance video cards.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

jakeroot

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 07, 2021, 11:49:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 07, 2021, 10:57:12 PM
But isn't the underlying kernel being the base of so many consumer products good enough? Linux is brilliant when it comes to providing something for someone else to fork into something that their users find useful: Android, for instance, or Xbox, or even a refrigerator or washer/dryer. There are very few people that really need Linux (in whatever distro form) as a desktop operating system.

Er...not really. What makes Linux great is that the software is all developed and maintained on a volunteer basis. People write Linux and Linux software because they want to write it. If they're not enjoying themselves, they bow out of development. That means that the developers are proud of their work and aren't cutting corners because they only get paid so much and they just need a quick fix to get their boss off their ass. Software ships when it's ready, not because Marketing promised a big customer we'd have a release by the end of the month, and besides, what are the odds that someone will use that feature with their language set to Norwegian but in the US/Central time zone during Daylight Savings, using a dark mode theme? It's not worth paying someone to spend the time to fix it.

I feel like you've underscored my point rather than rebut it. Open-source development is brilliant for developers, engineers, programmers, and whatnot specifically because of the flexibility in its framework and deployment. It has a great deal of variability in where it can be applied. At least from my point of view, this is why it's such a good base layer for so many other larger projects. But I don't think the standard Linux distro was ever designed for, you know, 80% of end-users who mostly just use their computer for writing stuff, browsing the web, and maybe some photo editing from time to time. For that stuff, Mac and Windows are just better integrated into the rest of our lives, and do most things that most users need to do pretty well. For everyone else, there's Linux.

Route66Fan

Quote from: Techknow on October 07, 2021, 01:03:24 AM
TPM 2.0 is often not available in desktop motherboards are is disabled, but it's possible to buy a TPM chip board which has a 7x2 header insert and insert it to TPM headers in a motherboard. I guess if one is tech-savvy enough that's a cheap solution to satisfy the TPM requirement.

Laptop motherboards on the hand do in fact have TPM 2.0, at least over the last few years. My 2.5 year old laptop meets all the requirements for Windows 11 apparently!



However I won't upgrade to Windows 11 just yet. For whatever reason Windows 10 had all sorts of bugs in the first couple of years after release and I deal with a couple bugs from time to time (one is which is thumbnails on Windows Explorer stop working and starts magically working again 15 minutes later so I use a program called XnViewMP to do what Windows Explorer should be able to do.) and I expect the same to be true for Windows 11. Even then not all of its gaming features are available, the DirectStorage tech sounds interesting but we need to wait for games to be released that support it!
I went ahead & upgraded my gaming PC to Windows 11. The only issue is that my PC does not have a TPM installed. I had to use a workaround to be able to install Windows 11. Microsoft says that unsupported PC's won't be able to get updates, however I did notice that I was able to receive updates. I would have gotten a TPM for my PC, however, due to the release of Windows 11, the prices of TPM's have risen from about $6-$15 to $30-$99 in the last 3 months.

SM-S102DL


kalvado

Quote from: jakeroot on October 08, 2021, 01:52:06 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 07, 2021, 11:49:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 07, 2021, 10:57:12 PM
But isn't the underlying kernel being the base of so many consumer products good enough? Linux is brilliant when it comes to providing something for someone else to fork into something that their users find useful: Android, for instance, or Xbox, or even a refrigerator or washer/dryer. There are very few people that really need Linux (in whatever distro form) as a desktop operating system.

Er...not really. What makes Linux great is that the software is all developed and maintained on a volunteer basis. People write Linux and Linux software because they want to write it. If they're not enjoying themselves, they bow out of development. That means that the developers are proud of their work and aren't cutting corners because they only get paid so much and they just need a quick fix to get their boss off their ass. Software ships when it's ready, not because Marketing promised a big customer we'd have a release by the end of the month, and besides, what are the odds that someone will use that feature with their language set to Norwegian but in the US/Central time zone during Daylight Savings, using a dark mode theme? It's not worth paying someone to spend the time to fix it.

I feel like you've underscored my point rather than rebut it. Open-source development is brilliant for developers, engineers, programmers, and whatnot specifically because of the flexibility in its framework and deployment. It has a great deal of variability in where it can be applied. At least from my point of view, this is why it's such a good base layer for so many other larger projects. But I don't think the standard Linux distro was ever designed for, you know, 80% of end-users who mostly just use their computer for writing stuff, browsing the web, and maybe some photo editing from time to time. For that stuff, Mac and Windows are just better integrated into the rest of our lives, and do most things that most users need to do pretty well. For everyone else, there's Linux.
From personal experience - Linux handles those everyday tasks pretty much as good as Windows. I was pleasantly surprised with that when I installed Ubuntu. I would dare saying certain everyday tasks work even better than under WIndows.
Open source is a interesting concept, not necessarily improving my perception of things.

Scott5114

#48
Quote from: jakeroot on October 08, 2021, 01:52:06 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 07, 2021, 11:49:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 07, 2021, 10:57:12 PM
But isn't the underlying kernel being the base of so many consumer products good enough? Linux is brilliant when it comes to providing something for someone else to fork into something that their users find useful: Android, for instance, or Xbox, or even a refrigerator or washer/dryer. There are very few people that really need Linux (in whatever distro form) as a desktop operating system.

Er...not really. What makes Linux great is that the software is all developed and maintained on a volunteer basis. People write Linux and Linux software because they want to write it. If they're not enjoying themselves, they bow out of development. That means that the developers are proud of their work and aren't cutting corners because they only get paid so much and they just need a quick fix to get their boss off their ass. Software ships when it's ready, not because Marketing promised a big customer we'd have a release by the end of the month, and besides, what are the odds that someone will use that feature with their language set to Norwegian but in the US/Central time zone during Daylight Savings, using a dark mode theme? It's not worth paying someone to spend the time to fix it.

I feel like you've underscored my point rather than rebut it. Open-source development is brilliant for developers, engineers, programmers, and whatnot specifically because of the flexibility in its framework and deployment. It has a great deal of variability in where it can be applied. At least from my point of view, this is why it's such a good base layer for so many other larger projects. But I don't think the standard Linux distro was ever designed for, you know, 80% of end-users who mostly just use their computer for writing stuff, browsing the web, and maybe some photo editing from time to time. For that stuff, Mac and Windows are just better integrated into the rest of our lives, and do most things that most users need to do pretty well. For everyone else, there's Linux.

Actually, open-source tools are better for writing stuff, browsing the web, and photo editing too.

Can't count the number of times I've had someone ask me for computer help because they're struggling with some "feature" of the commercial software getting in their way, or some feature they used regularly in past versions being removed. I suggest trying the open-source equivalent, and they're like "Huh, that's a lot easier, why haven't I been using this all along?"

Besides, Gimp doesn't charge you an annual fee like Adobe CS does now. Who has the money for that other than big corporate design shops?

I encourage you to download a live image (CD or USB) of Fedora or Ubuntu and try it out for an evening (if you're used to Windows I suggest the KDE version of either of those), because the image you have of Linux in your head was last current around 2006 or so.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kalvado

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 08, 2021, 05:01:23 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 08, 2021, 01:52:06 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 07, 2021, 11:49:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 07, 2021, 10:57:12 PM
But isn't the underlying kernel being the base of so many consumer products good enough? Linux is brilliant when it comes to providing something for someone else to fork into something that their users find useful: Android, for instance, or Xbox, or even a refrigerator or washer/dryer. There are very few people that really need Linux (in whatever distro form) as a desktop operating system.

Er...not really. What makes Linux great is that the software is all developed and maintained on a volunteer basis. People write Linux and Linux software because they want to write it. If they're not enjoying themselves, they bow out of development. That means that the developers are proud of their work and aren't cutting corners because they only get paid so much and they just need a quick fix to get their boss off their ass. Software ships when it's ready, not because Marketing promised a big customer we'd have a release by the end of the month, and besides, what are the odds that someone will use that feature with their language set to Norwegian but in the US/Central time zone during Daylight Savings, using a dark mode theme? It's not worth paying someone to spend the time to fix it.

I feel like you've underscored my point rather than rebut it. Open-source development is brilliant for developers, engineers, programmers, and whatnot specifically because of the flexibility in its framework and deployment. It has a great deal of variability in where it can be applied. At least from my point of view, this is why it's such a good base layer for so many other larger projects. But I don't think the standard Linux distro was ever designed for, you know, 80% of end-users who mostly just use their computer for writing stuff, browsing the web, and maybe some photo editing from time to time. For that stuff, Mac and Windows are just better integrated into the rest of our lives, and do most things that most users need to do pretty well. For everyone else, there's Linux.

Actually, open-source tools are better for writing stuff, browsing the web, and photo editing too.

Can't count the number of times I've had someone ask me for computer help because they're struggling with some "feature" of the commercial software getting in their way, or some feature they used regularly in past versions being removed. I suggest trying the open-source equivalent, and they're like "Huh, that's a lot easier, why haven't I been using this all along?"

Besides, Gimp doesn't charge you an annual fee like Adobe CS does now. Who has the money for that other than big corporate design shops?

I encourage you to download a live image (CD or USB) of Fedora or Ubuntu and try it out for an evening (if you're used to Windows I suggest the KDE version of either of those), because the image you have of Linux in your head was last current around 2006 or so.

Not that simple...
Gimp is a good tool - but I heard general comment "yeah, its somewhat usable - but not a match to photoshop"
Libreoffice is OK for simple files; compatibility with something more loaded is not 100%. If you need nothing more than plain text, google web-based tools are just good enough.
I can get along with anything, but....  Word is simply better.
I still struggle to find something similar to XnView.

It's not to say that windows version of MS office is perfect. But there is no match for Excel.






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