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Author Topic: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step  (Read 1056 times)

roadman65

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Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« on: October 27, 2021, 11:33:10 AM »

In Orange County, Florida the county extended Town Center Blvd from Hunters Creek into Meadow Woods. They crossed Orange Avenue at grade, that was only two lanes at the time. The county knew the road Orange Avenue was on the list for expansion, so the  traffic signal built for that particular intersection was made with its poles far enough away to accommodate seven new southbound lanes and three more northbound turn lanes with two poles on opposite corners for a diagonal signal span wire assembly.  So when widening came months later, all workers had to do was install new heads over the proper lanes when built.

However, when the time came for Orange to be finally widened, the project manager decided to replace the signals completely when it happened leaving the previously proactive measure to go in vain. So the prep work was done for nothing.

Any other proactive measures in road projects get ignored later?
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froggie

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2021, 11:34:54 AM »

^ It's possible that, by the time Orange County finally got to widening Orange Ave, the signals that were previously installed were out of code.
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webny99

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2021, 11:35:42 AM »

Unless I'm misunderstanding, basically any freeway stub that never ended up being built.
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wanderer2575

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2021, 12:12:39 PM »

Unless I'm misunderstanding, basically any freeway stub that never ended up being built.

I think the example the OP is looking for in this scenario is where the stub is torn out and rebuilt along with the rest of the ramp/road when the road it serves is later built.
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hbelkins

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2021, 12:25:04 PM »

Two examples on the Mountain Parkway in Kentucky.

Several years ago, a superelevation correction was made to the bridge at Exit 72. The old bridge was removed, there was a slight realignment of the road, and a new bridge was built. Then a few years later, when the widening and four-laning was done, that new bridge was removed.

And more recently, a pavement rehab job was done just a couple of years ago on the segment between exits 43 and 57, and included was a new bridge for KY 1010 over the parkway at Exit 53, along with new signage. Now, the four-laning has been moved up, and they probably won't be able to use the new KY 1010 bridge, and will probably tear out the existing pavement all the way to the base and rebuild it to keep the existing route as one of the carriageways.

The pavement needed work, but they could have gotten more life out of the existing KY 1010 bridge.
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machias

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2021, 05:47:13 PM »

When the guide panels on Interstate 81 north of Syracuse were replaced in the early 1970s, the panels for the NY 481 interchange all had exit tabs that said EXITS 29N-

Interstate 481 wasn't built to the interchange until 1985, and all the panels for the interchange were replaced with exit tabs for EXITS 29N-S (or S-N). The control city was also changed from Fulton to Oswego.
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Bruce

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2021, 05:53:14 PM »

Not a highway, but:

When the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel was built in the late 1980s, it was designed to carry buses but be convertible to rail use. A last minute addition to the plans allowed for tracks to be installed so that rail conversion would not require a disruptive shutdown of the system.

Fast forward to the 2000s when it came time to build our light rail system. The tunnel's tracks were not properly insulated for use by trains, so they ended up being useless. The tunnel had to shut down for 2 years so that the tracks could be removed, the roadbed lowered (because we chose low-floor cars that were not common in 1980s North America), and the wiring redone.

Overall, it ended up being a boon for the rail system, as we didn't have to shell out tons of extra money for a downtown tunnel in the 2000s.

webny99

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2021, 07:40:53 PM »

Unless I'm misunderstanding, basically any freeway stub that never ended up being built.

I think the example the OP is looking for in this scenario is where the stub is torn out and rebuilt along with the rest of the ramp/road when the road it serves is later built.

If that is the case, then I think NY 204 at NY 33A would qualify... vdeane or someone else could confirm this, but I believe it was originally built as a stub and then reconstructed to a normal at-grade intersection.
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vdeane

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2021, 08:59:51 PM »

Unless I'm misunderstanding, basically any freeway stub that never ended up being built.

I think the example the OP is looking for in this scenario is where the stub is torn out and rebuilt along with the rest of the ramp/road when the road it serves is later built.

If that is the case, then I think NY 204 at NY 33A would qualify... vdeane or someone else could confirm this, but I believe it was originally built as a stub and then reconstructed to a normal at-grade intersection.
It was, but I agree with wanderer2575:

Unless I'm misunderstanding, basically any freeway stub that never ended up being built.

I think the example the OP is looking for in this scenario is where the stub is torn out and rebuilt along with the rest of the ramp/road when the road it serves is later built.

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webny99

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2021, 09:21:25 PM »

^ Yeah, I guess I was misunderstanding. Not all freeway stubs would qualify, but NY 204/NY 33A is one that would even with the more specific definition.
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Bickendan

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2021, 05:32:18 AM »

Not a highway, but:

When the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel was built in the late 1980s, it was designed to carry buses but be convertible to rail use. A last minute addition to the plans allowed for tracks to be installed so that rail conversion would not require a disruptive shutdown of the system.

Fast forward to the 2000s when it came time to build our light rail system. The tunnel's tracks were not properly insulated for use by trains, so they ended up being useless. The tunnel had to shut down for 2 years so that the tracks could be removed, the roadbed lowered (because we chose low-floor cars that were not common in 1980s North America), and the wiring redone.

Overall, it ended up being a boon for the rail system, as we didn't have to shell out tons of extra money for a downtown tunnel in the 2000s.
Did the rail replacement wind up serving as proof of concept for the permanent removal of buses from the tunnel?
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Bruce

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2021, 06:57:21 PM »

Not a highway, but:

When the Downtown Seattle Transit Tunnel was built in the late 1980s, it was designed to carry buses but be convertible to rail use. A last minute addition to the plans allowed for tracks to be installed so that rail conversion would not require a disruptive shutdown of the system.

Fast forward to the 2000s when it came time to build our light rail system. The tunnel's tracks were not properly insulated for use by trains, so they ended up being useless. The tunnel had to shut down for 2 years so that the tracks could be removed, the roadbed lowered (because we chose low-floor cars that were not common in 1980s North America), and the wiring redone.

Overall, it ended up being a boon for the rail system, as we didn't have to shell out tons of extra money for a downtown tunnel in the 2000s.
Did the rail replacement wind up serving as proof of concept for the permanent removal of buses from the tunnel?

The post-1995 plan was always to transition the tunnel to rail-only operations someday, so the renovation was done with that in mind. The lowered roadbed meant that light rail vehicles would have level boarding, but also meant that buses would have their mirrors at head-whacking height (necessitating bright warning lights on them). The removal of the trolleybus wire for light rail catenary meant that only hybrid buses could run in the tunnel on electric "hush" mode (but other buses occasionally ran, even if not equipped for hybrid ops).

The ultimate decision to remove buses in 2019 came down to the frequency of light rail trains increasing in preparation for the Northgate extension (which took a bit of time to test). Buses weren't allowed to occupy the same time blocks as trains, so they'd be extremely restricted.

I-55

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2021, 12:06:53 PM »

An easy example would be the north split in Indy, as stubs were built to accommodate the unfinished I-69 (or I-165). This led to dangerous curves on I-65 and I-70. Now that the north split is being reconfigured (and I-69/165 is officially cancelled) the stubs are being removed and the new interchange will not be accommodating to any new stubs.

You could also argue similarly for the original ending of the Kilpatrick Turnpike in OKC, as it dumped out into 15th street instead of accommodating a future extension. The new extension was routed away from the connector to 15th and said connector is now defunct.
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Revive 755

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Re: Proactive Measures that lead to a Retroactive step
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2021, 11:16:22 PM »

I think there are a few examples out there of diamond interchanges that were designed to have loops added in the future as traffic volumes grew, but were instead rebuilt into a much more compact SPUI or DDI.  Just can't recall where this has happened right now.
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