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[SEWIGuy]

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.

This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.

What?  There are plenty of neighborhoods in Milwaukee that are both safe and economical.

[The Ghostbuster]

Here is the presentation from the March 16, 2021 PIM: https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/projects/by-region/se/94ew-study/2021/presentation.pdf. This should tell you everything you need to know about the Interstate 94 (70th St. to 16th St.) project.

[thspfc]

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.

This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.

What?  There are plenty of neighborhoods in Milwaukee that are both safe and economical.

”Your claim is false.” Proceeds to not state any evidence whatsoever, doesn’t even list one such neighborhood.

[SEWIGuy]

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.

This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.

What?  There are plenty of neighborhoods in Milwaukee that are both safe and economical.

”Your claim is false.” Proceeds to not state any evidence whatsoever, doesn’t even list one such neighborhood.

Washington Heights, Mount Mary, Jackson Park, Etc. People who know Milwaukee knows these things. Those who don’t make comical assumptions and likely never stray from the interstates because it’s “scary.”

[thspfc]

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.

This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.

What?  There are plenty of neighborhoods in Milwaukee that are both safe and economical.

”Your claim is false.” Proceeds to not state any evidence whatsoever, doesn’t even list one such neighborhood.

Washington Heights, Mount Mary, Jackson Park, Etc. People who know Milwaukee knows these things. Those who don’t make comical assumptions and likely never stray from the interstates because it’s “scary.”

I'll give you Washington and Jackson Park. Mount Mary not so much. It is technically in Milwaukee, but a quick glace at a map shows that it's obviously in Wauwatosa, as it's even further from downtown Milwaukee than Wauwatosa itself is. Wauwatosa is a suburb, same as Waukesha or Greenfield.

[SEWIGuy]

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.

This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.

What?  There are plenty of neighborhoods in Milwaukee that are both safe and economical.

”Your claim is false.” Proceeds to not state any evidence whatsoever, doesn’t even list one such neighborhood.

Washington Heights, Mount Mary, Jackson Park, Etc. People who know Milwaukee knows these things. Those who don’t make comical assumptions and likely never stray from the interstates because it’s “scary.”

I'll give you Washington and Jackson Park. Mount Mary not so much. It is technically in Milwaukee, but a quick glace at a map shows that it's obviously in Wauwatosa, as it's even further from downtown Milwaukee than Wauwatosa itself is. Wauwatosa is a suburb, same as Waukesha or Greenfield.

Mount Mary is not "obviously in Wauwatosa."  It's literally in Milwaukee.  And I have a college roommate that lives across Burleigh Street from campus...which is the City of Milwaukee.

That's my point.  The City of Milwaukee is full of nice, economical neighborhoods which are neither "dangerous with poor schools and poverty," nor "really expensive."

[thspfc]

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.

This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.

What?  There are plenty of neighborhoods in Milwaukee that are both safe and economical.

”Your claim is false.” Proceeds to not state any evidence whatsoever, doesn’t even list one such neighborhood.

Washington Heights, Mount Mary, Jackson Park, Etc. People who know Milwaukee knows these things. Those who don’t make comical assumptions and likely never stray from the interstates because it’s “scary.”

I'll give you Washington and Jackson Park. Mount Mary not so much. It is technically in Milwaukee, but a quick glace at a map shows that it's obviously in Wauwatosa, as it's even further from downtown Milwaukee than Wauwatosa itself is. Wauwatosa is a suburb, same as Waukesha or Greenfield.

Mount Mary is not "obviously in Wauwatosa."  It's literally in Milwaukee.  And I have a college roommate that lives across Burleigh Street from campus...which is the City of Milwaukee.

That's my point.  The City of Milwaukee is full of nice, economical neighborhoods which are neither "dangerous with poor schools and poverty," nor "really expensive."

Don’t be like that. Seriously. Mount Mary is between Wauwatosa and Brookfield. It’s less than two miles east of the Zoo Freeway, which is the generally accepted boundary between the inner suburbs (Tosa, West Allis) and outer suburbs (Brookfield, Waukesha, Menomonee Falls, New Berlin). Yes, the houses have a Milwaukee address; yet when driving downtown from Mt. Mary, you pass through Tosa no matter what route you take (within reason - staying in Milwaukee would take much longer).

[SEWIGuy]

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.

This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.

What?  There are plenty of neighborhoods in Milwaukee that are both safe and economical.

”Your claim is false.” Proceeds to not state any evidence whatsoever, doesn’t even list one such neighborhood.

Washington Heights, Mount Mary, Jackson Park, Etc. People who know Milwaukee knows these things. Those who don’t make comical assumptions and likely never stray from the interstates because it’s “scary.”

I'll give you Washington and Jackson Park. Mount Mary not so much. It is technically in Milwaukee, but a quick glace at a map shows that it's obviously in Wauwatosa, as it's even further from downtown Milwaukee than Wauwatosa itself is. Wauwatosa is a suburb, same as Waukesha or Greenfield.

Mount Mary is not "obviously in Wauwatosa."  It's literally in Milwaukee.  And I have a college roommate that lives across Burleigh Street from campus...which is the City of Milwaukee.

That's my point.  The City of Milwaukee is full of nice, economical neighborhoods which are neither "dangerous with poor schools and poverty," nor "really expensive."

Don’t be like that. Seriously. Mount Mary is between Wauwatosa and Brookfield. It’s less than two miles east of the Zoo Freeway, which is the generally accepted boundary between the inner suburbs (Tosa, West Allis) and outer suburbs (Brookfield, Waukesha, Menomonee Falls, New Berlin). Yes, the houses have a Milwaukee address; yet when driving downtown from Mt. Mary, you pass through Tosa no matter what route you take (within reason - staying in Milwaukee would take much longer).

Don't be like what?  Factually accurate?

I claimed there are plenty of parts of Milwaukee that were safe and economical.  You claimed I didn't state any evidence.  And now you claim that the evidence I present doesn't count?

It would just be better for you to admit you were wrong and move on.  Or we could keep going on here and you could tell me more wrong things about the city I was born in, went to school in, lived for over a decade and where most of my family still lives.  What will it be?

[Rothman]

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.

This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.

What?  There are plenty of neighborhoods in Milwaukee that are both safe and economical.

”Your claim is false.” Proceeds to not state any evidence whatsoever, doesn’t even list one such neighborhood.

Washington Heights, Mount Mary, Jackson Park, Etc. People who know Milwaukee knows these things. Those who don’t make comical assumptions and likely never stray from the interstates because it’s “scary.”

I'll give you Washington and Jackson Park. Mount Mary not so much. It is technically in Milwaukee, but a quick glace at a map shows that it's obviously in Wauwatosa, as it's even further from downtown Milwaukee than Wauwatosa itself is. Wauwatosa is a suburb, same as Waukesha or Greenfield.

Mount Mary is not "obviously in Wauwatosa."  It's literally in Milwaukee.  And I have a college roommate that lives across Burleigh Street from campus...which is the City of Milwaukee.

That's my point.  The City of Milwaukee is full of nice, economical neighborhoods which are neither "dangerous with poor schools and poverty," nor "really expensive."

Don’t be like that. Seriously. Mount Mary is between Wauwatosa and Brookfield. It’s less than two miles east of the Zoo Freeway, which is the generally accepted boundary between the inner suburbs (Tosa, West Allis) and outer suburbs (Brookfield, Waukesha, Menomonee Falls, New Berlin). Yes, the houses have a Milwaukee address; yet when driving downtown from Mt. Mary, you pass through Tosa no matter what route you take (within reason - staying in Milwaukee would take much longer).

Don't be like what?  Factually accurate?

I claimed there are plenty of parts of Milwaukee that were safe and economical.  You claimed I didn't state any evidence.  And now you claim that the evidence I present doesn't count?

It would just be better for you to admit you were wrong and move on.  Or we could keep going on here and you could tell me more wrong things about the city I was born in, went to school in, lived for over a decade and where most of my family still lives.  What will it be?

thspfc be a-trolling, from the looks of things.

[skluth]

J-turn at WI 29 and CTH VV west of Green Bay is closing Monday to be replaced by an interchange.

[gr8daynegb]

J-turn at WI 29 and CTH VV west of Green Bay is closing Monday to be replaced by an interchange.

Too bad couldn't have been done sooner. Always a dangerous area regardless if joining or turning off of hwy 29/32

[thspfc]

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.

This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.

What?  There are plenty of neighborhoods in Milwaukee that are both safe and economical.

”Your claim is false.” Proceeds to not state any evidence whatsoever, doesn’t even list one such neighborhood.

Washington Heights, Mount Mary, Jackson Park, Etc. People who know Milwaukee knows these things. Those who don’t make comical assumptions and likely never stray from the interstates because it’s “scary.”

I'll give you Washington and Jackson Park. Mount Mary not so much. It is technically in Milwaukee, but a quick glace at a map shows that it's obviously in Wauwatosa, as it's even further from downtown Milwaukee than Wauwatosa itself is. Wauwatosa is a suburb, same as Waukesha or Greenfield.

Mount Mary is not "obviously in Wauwatosa."  It's literally in Milwaukee.  And I have a college roommate that lives across Burleigh Street from campus...which is the City of Milwaukee.

That's my point.  The City of Milwaukee is full of nice, economical neighborhoods which are neither "dangerous with poor schools and poverty," nor "really expensive."

Don’t be like that. Seriously. Mount Mary is between Wauwatosa and Brookfield. It’s less than two miles east of the Zoo Freeway, which is the generally accepted boundary between the inner suburbs (Tosa, West Allis) and outer suburbs (Brookfield, Waukesha, Menomonee Falls, New Berlin). Yes, the houses have a Milwaukee address; yet when driving downtown from Mt. Mary, you pass through Tosa no matter what route you take (within reason - staying in Milwaukee would take much longer).

Don't be like what?  Factually accurate?

I claimed there are plenty of parts of Milwaukee that were safe and economical.  You claimed I didn't state any evidence.  And now you claim that the evidence I present doesn't count?

It would just be better for you to admit you were wrong and move on.  Or we could keep going on here and you could tell me more wrong things about the city I was born in, went to school in, lived for over a decade and where most of my family still lives.  What will it be?

Going back to the original point, we're talking about a possible upgrade of I-94 near the WI-175 interchange. I said that the voices of the I-94 commuters should also be heard. We got to this discussion because someone said that there are lots of neighborhoods in Milwaukee where you don't have to commute, but they're also nice places to live with low housing costs. I took issue with one of your three examples because while it is in Milwaukee, it still requires a significant commute to the location of most jobs in Milwaukee. Depending on traffic, I-94 between I-41 and I-43 is generally part of that commute. So I'm not disputing the fact that Mount Mary is in Milwaukee; I understand how my words might have conveyed it that way. What I'm disputing is, going back to the beginning of this conversation, I don't think Mt. Mary is relevant in terms of being a neighborhood that is in the inner city, and doesn't require much of a commute, particularly along the stretch of highway in question.

San Bernardino County is an extreme example of this, much more so than Mt. Mary and Milwaukee. If someone asks you for a good place to live in San Bernardino County where you can commute easily to the rest of the LA area, you're not going to tell them to live in Needles or Baker, even though it is in San Bernardino County.

And I'll remember to keep the "I live(d) here so I'm 100% right you can't debate me on this" card in my pocket.

[Revive 755]

J-turn at WI 29 and CTH VV west of Green Bay is closing Monday to be replaced by an interchange.

So the J-turn didn't work?  Could be a nice case study.

[SEWIGuy]

I also empathize with the people living in the suburbs and elsewhere who are losing hundreds of hours a year sitting in traffic.

This is the only thing I don't agree with. If people are tired of sitting in traffic (and Milwaukee traffic isn't that bad) then move closer to work. Not a fan of people that want the opportunities and options that cities provide but then don't want to live in and/or pay for it by instead living in suburbia or the hinterland.

This is too objective. Inner city neighborhoods are either a) dangerous with poor schools and poverty, or b) really expensive. The suburbs are higher quality neighborhoods but less expensive than inner city neighborhoods of the same quality, thus why people live there.

What?  There are plenty of neighborhoods in Milwaukee that are both safe and economical.

”Your claim is false.” Proceeds to not state any evidence whatsoever, doesn’t even list one such neighborhood.

Washington Heights, Mount Mary, Jackson Park, Etc. People who know Milwaukee knows these things. Those who don’t make comical assumptions and likely never stray from the interstates because it’s “scary.”

I'll give you Washington and Jackson Park. Mount Mary not so much. It is technically in Milwaukee, but a quick glace at a map shows that it's obviously in Wauwatosa, as it's even further from downtown Milwaukee than Wauwatosa itself is. Wauwatosa is a suburb, same as Waukesha or Greenfield.

Mount Mary is not "obviously in Wauwatosa."  It's literally in Milwaukee.  And I have a college roommate that lives across Burleigh Street from campus...which is the City of Milwaukee.

That's my point.  The City of Milwaukee is full of nice, economical neighborhoods which are neither "dangerous with poor schools and poverty," nor "really expensive."

Don’t be like that. Seriously. Mount Mary is between Wauwatosa and Brookfield. It’s less than two miles east of the Zoo Freeway, which is the generally accepted boundary between the inner suburbs (Tosa, West Allis) and outer suburbs (Brookfield, Waukesha, Menomonee Falls, New Berlin). Yes, the houses have a Milwaukee address; yet when driving downtown from Mt. Mary, you pass through Tosa no matter what route you take (within reason - staying in Milwaukee would take much longer).

Don't be like what?  Factually accurate?

I claimed there are plenty of parts of Milwaukee that were safe and economical.  You claimed I didn't state any evidence.  And now you claim that the evidence I present doesn't count?

It would just be better for you to admit you were wrong and move on.  Or we could keep going on here and you could tell me more wrong things about the city I was born in, went to school in, lived for over a decade and where most of my family still lives.  What will it be?

Going back to the original point, we're talking about a possible upgrade of I-94 near the WI-175 interchange. I said that the voices of the I-94 commuters should also be heard. We got to this discussion because someone said that there are lots of neighborhoods in Milwaukee where you don't have to commute, but they're also nice places to live with low housing costs. I took issue with one of your three examples because while it is in Milwaukee, it still requires a significant commute to the location of most jobs in Milwaukee. Depending on traffic, I-94 between I-41 and I-43 is generally part of that commute. So I'm not disputing the fact that Mount Mary is in Milwaukee; I understand how my words might have conveyed it that way. What I'm disputing is, going back to the beginning of this conversation, I don't think Mt. Mary is relevant in terms of being a neighborhood that is in the inner city, and doesn't require much of a commute, particularly along the stretch of highway in question.

San Bernardino County is an extreme example of this, much more so than Mt. Mary and Milwaukee. If someone asks you for a good place to live in San Bernardino County where you can commute easily to the rest of the LA area, you're not going to tell them to live in Needles or Baker, even though it is in San Bernardino County.

And I'll remember to keep the "I live(d) here so I'm 100% right you can't debate me on this" card in my pocket.

Ah. You went with shifting the goalposts I see.

A common but desperate option for those who are wrong.

[Big John]

J-turn at WI 29 and CTH VV west of Green Bay is closing Monday to be replaced by an interchange.

Federal money has an earmark to put an interchange there so it is a freeway to the Shawano county line.
If that project was not done now, the J turn would remain.

So the J-turn didn't work?  Could be a nice case study.

[skluth]

J-turn at WI 29 and CTH VV west of Green Bay is closing Monday to be replaced by an interchange.

So the J-turn didn't work?  Could be a nice case study.

Probably a matter of the area being built up in recent years with the accompanied increased traffic. My brother lived just west of Pamprin Park until last year and I was always surprised at how many new homes had been built every time I visited. Traffic may not justify an interchange today, but the intersection likely would have been overwhelmed within a few years.

I believe this will make County Line Road the only cross-traffic on WI 29/32 east of the Pulaski interchange, and traffic can only turn left off to leave the highway with traffic on County Line only allowed to turn right at the highway. I'm curious if this will eventually be an interchange, bridge across the highway with no access to 29/32, truncated on each side of the highway, or converted to a J-turn intersection.

[peterj920]

Here’s your answer. Wis 29 will be freeway from the Shawano Co line to I-41 when the project is finished.

https://projects.511wi.gov/29vv/wp-content/uploads/sites/682/cthumap.pdf

[Caps81943]

I've been looking into and exploring Wisconsin a lot lately, and I've noticed something with the county trunk road system. There is a SERIOUS lack of County Road L's. As in, there's only a handful in the entire state.

Can anyone explain this mysterious lack of L's?

[jwags]

I've been looking into and exploring Wisconsin a lot lately, and I've noticed something with the county trunk road system. There is a SERIOUS lack of County Road L's. As in, there's only a handful in the entire state.

Can anyone explain this mysterious lack of L's?

I can't answer your question but I know that in Dodge County L was last single-letter county route to be assigned.

[SEWIGuy]

I've been looking into and exploring Wisconsin a lot lately, and I've noticed something with the county trunk road system. There is a SERIOUS lack of County Road L's. As in, there's only a handful in the entire state.

Can anyone explain this mysterious lack of L's?

My guess....  Back when these highways were laid out, US and State highways had small "L" and "R" signs to indicate direction instead of arrows.  Counties stayed away from these two letters to avoid confusion because I don't think there are many CTH-R's either.

[Caps81943]

I've been looking into and exploring Wisconsin a lot lately, and I've noticed something with the county trunk road system. There is a SERIOUS lack of County Road L's. As in, there's only a handful in the entire state.

Can anyone explain this mysterious lack of L's?

My guess....  Back when these highways were laid out, US and State highways had small "L" and "R" signs to indicate direction instead of arrows.  Counties stayed away from these two letters to avoid confusion because I don't think there are many CTH-R's either.

Ah, that would explain it...and it appears you're right, very few R's well. Thanks!

[SEWIGuy]

I've been looking into and exploring Wisconsin a lot lately, and I've noticed something with the county trunk road system. There is a SERIOUS lack of County Road L's. As in, there's only a handful in the entire state.

Can anyone explain this mysterious lack of L's?

My guess....  Back when these highways were laid out, US and State highways had small "L" and "R" signs to indicate direction instead of arrows.  Counties stayed away from these two letters to avoid confusion because I don't think there are many CTH-R's either.

Ah, that would explain it...and it appears you're right, very few R's well. Thanks!

You are welcome.  It is amazing how consistent the lettering has been since the system started.  There have been a couple additions, re-routes and shortenings, but generally if the letter "N" was slapped on a route back in the 1920s, it is still County N today!

[I-39]

Here’s your answer. Wis 29 will be freeway from the Shawano Co line to I-41 when the project is finished.

https://projects.511wi.gov/29vv/wp-content/uploads/sites/682/cthumap.pdf

They ought to just finish the freeway conversion between there and Shawano. Wouldn't be too difficult to do.

[invincor]

I've been looking into and exploring Wisconsin a lot lately, and I've noticed something with the county trunk road system. There is a SERIOUS lack of County Road L's. As in, there's only a handful in the entire state.

Can anyone explain this mysterious lack of L's?

My guess....  Back when these highways were laid out, US and State highways had small "L" and "R" signs to indicate direction instead of arrows.  Counties stayed away from these two letters to avoid confusion because I don't think there are many CTH-R's either.

Ah, that would explain it...and it appears you're right, very few R's well. Thanks!

I can confirm this is the correct answer too. 

[chrismarion100]

Wisconsin's second oldest highway tunnel will switch to LED lighting but not before bring closed for two weeks. (last state owned lightning in the NW region to switch to LED lighting)
https://wqow.com/2021/09/21/us-53-exit-tunnel-to-wis-93-will-close-for-lightning-maintenance/