Wisconsin notes

[JREwing78]

WisDOT I-39/90 project completion video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jaIk_vY08Y

Remarks with WisDOT Secretary Thompson and various local dignitaries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKsqIGfBuGo

[I-39]

WisDOT I-39/90 project completion video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jaIk_vY08Y

Remarks with WisDOT Secretary Thompson and various local dignitaries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKsqIGfBuGo

Great! Now hopefully they'll get a move on the Madison to Wisconsin Dells segment.

[paulthemapguy]

IT TOOK THEM SIX YEARS??????

[triplemultiplex]

^^
Does that seem low or high to you?

Either way, I am puzzled because considering the scope of the project, the time frame is not surprising to me.
Also, 6 years isn't quite accurate as there was a bridge replacement associated with this project going on in 2014, so that makes 7 years total.

[tchafe1978]

Every other major project by WISDot that costs arounf $1billion takes 4-5-6 years. It's nothing new. The Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, I-41 from Oshkosh to Appleton and the I-41/WI 441 interchange all took the same time frame. If there is something you have to suggest to speed things up, let's hear it.

[SEWIGuy]

I was at a presentation yesterday where the Secretary of Transportation spoke.  They are 30% done with the design for the I-41 expansion and construction will take place between 2024 and 2029.  Yeah these things take time.  And having them take longer likely makes them cheaper too.  The major construction firms only have so much capacity, so you are likely then dealing with multiple firms at higher cost.

[JREwing78]

IT TOOK THEM SIX YEARS??????

The major traffic-clogging mainline rebuild portion really got underway in 2017. There were a couple interchange and bridge replacements in the years prior to that, but no substantive mainline work until 2017. So, more like 4 years.

WisDOT had it planned for a 4-year build out, but the politicians in Madison pulled political shenanigans before it was to move forward, and caused it to be delayed due to lack of funding. Then they made a show of putting it back on the calendar and funding it to be completed in "only" 6 years.

Also remember they had to maintain traffic, deal with typical Wisconsin weather, and so on.

Yes, ISTHA got their rebuild between Elgin and Rockford done in 2 years. But they didn't replace many bridges. Also, their traffic maintenance, particularly the first year, was so horrible I drove 30+ miles out of my way to avoid using it. It was posted for 45 for 40 miles and was so narrow I nearly lost my mirrors on multiple occasions.

By contrast, I thought WisDOT did a fine job maintaining traffic flow on I-39/90 during construction. It was always at least 2 lanes each way, and the construction zones were never the entire stretch at once - generally a 10 mile section, then a break of 5-10 miles, then maybe another 5-10 miles. We could also  maintain at least 60 in the construction zones. Maybe it took 6 years to complete, but it wasn't unusable for those 6 years.

SM-G991U

[I-39]

IT TOOK THEM SIX YEARS??????

The major traffic-clogging mainline rebuild portion really got underway in 2017. There were a couple interchange and bridge replacements in the years prior to that, but no substantive mainline work until 2017. So, more like 4 years.

WisDOT had it planned for a 4-year build out, but the politicians in Madison pulled political shenanigans before it was to move forward, and caused it to be delayed due to lack of funding. Then they made a show of putting it back on the calendar and funding it to be completed in "only" 6 years.

Also remember they had to maintain traffic, deal with typical Wisconsin weather, and so on.

Yes, ISTHA got their rebuild between Elgin and Rockford done in 2 years. But they didn't replace many bridges. Also, their traffic maintenance, particularly the first year, was so horrible I drove 30+ miles out of my way to avoid using it. It was posted for 45 for 40 miles and was so narrow I nearly lost my mirrors on multiple occasions.

By contrast, I thought WisDOT did a fine job maintaining traffic flow on I-39/90 during construction. It was always at least 2 lanes each way, and the construction zones were never the entire stretch at once - generally a 10 mile section, then a break of 5-10 miles, then maybe another 5-10 miles. We could also  maintain at least 60 in the construction zones. Maybe it took 6 years to complete, but it wasn't unusable for those 6 years.

SM-G991U

Actually, ISTHA replaced nearly all the bridges on the I-90 rebuild. IIRC, The only things that weren't touched were the I-290/53 interchange and the US 20 bridges just west of Irene Road.

Though you are correct that the delays on this project were purely political. It also prevented the Beltline interchange from getting the full rebuild it was originally going to have.

[thspfc]

As someone who only drives I-39/90 south of Madison a few times a year, I would rather it have been completely undriveable for two years than barely driveable for six years. It SUCKED during construction. It was almost easier to use US-14 and put up with all the slow stretches through towns. But I understand why a complete closure for two years wasn't feasible.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

As someone who only drives I-39/90 south of Madison a few times a year, I would rather it have been completely undriveable for two years than barely driveable for six years. It SUCKED during construction. It was almost easier to use US-14 and put up with all the slow stretches through towns. But I understand why a complete closure for two years wasn't feasible.

Sounds like I-94 northwest of the Twin Cities which is finishing up two years of major rebuild. It was terrifying to drive, had a number of confusing elements like local/express lanes that people here are not familiar with, and ultimately more than 700 accidents happened on that stretch during the two years of major work. While it has a better alternate than 39/90 does (US 10), it wasn't going to be feasible to shut the whole thing down.

[Revive 755]

Actually, ISTHA replaced nearly all the bridges on the I-90 rebuild. IIRC, The only things that weren't touched were the I-290/53 interchange and the US 20 bridges just west of Irene Road.

I thought some of those bridge were started a few years prior to the full rebuild of the mainline as well?  Or was that just east of Elgin?

I think there were a few more bridges that weren't replaced:

* IL 59
*Beverly Road
* Randall Road
* US 20/Hampshire Interchange Ramps

[I-39]

Actually, ISTHA replaced nearly all the bridges on the I-90 rebuild. IIRC, The only things that weren't touched were the I-290/53 interchange and the US 20 bridges just west of Irene Road.

I thought some of those bridge were started a few years prior to the full rebuild of the mainline as well?  Or was that just east of Elgin?

I think there were a few more bridges that weren't replaced:

* IL 59
*Beverly Road
* Randall Road
* US 20/Hampshire Interchange Ramps

You are correct. Some of the bridges on the Randall to Kennedy segment were replaced the year prior to the start of mainline construction, but the Randall to I-39 segments bridges were replaced during mainline reconstruction. Also correct about those 4 not being replaced, all but Randall were previously replaced, and Randall will be replaced in the forthcoming interchange redesign.

Back to Wisconsin, when are they gonna update the website with new I-39/90/94 info? It still says the study was cancelled.

[JoePCool14]

I drove through the new I-39/I-90/I-43/STH-81 interchange a couple weeks ago on my way back to university. I wanted to stop on 81 for gas and lunch. Wow, it's incredible how much different the interchange is! It's weird, but it's probably necessary. Having a 2DI just end, dumping traffic into a commercial area just didn't seem like a great idea. I'm sure it sucks though for people who liked just cruising off the end of 43.

Side note: Never go to the Arby's at that exit. I was 4th in line, all I ordered was two sliders and mozzarella sticks and it took about 20 minutes to get my food. Huge delay and waste of my time.

[triplemultiplex]

Eh, par for the course for 'fast' food service in a lot of places these days what with this labor shortage.  Literally every Gulp n' Blow is hiring.



I had almost zero problems with 39/90 during construction.  It was heavy, but always moving well.  The only time I ate shit on that stretch and got stuck in traffic was because of a wreck.  Granted, I wasn't commuting on it everyday or anything like that, but given the number of times I've had to leave Madison to the south over the last few years, it's a pretty good sample size.

[JREwing78]

The only time I ate shit on that stretch and got stuck in traffic was because of a wreck.

That honestly wasn't much different than before construction. Fridays and Sundays in the summer months were a nightmare anyway; construction didn't make that significantly worse.

You definitely notice the difference now with 6-8 lanes, though without proper lane discipline it's not as big of a difference as it could have been. Enforcing slower traffic keeping right would help.

SM-G991U

[mgk920]

There was a multi-car and truck v Escanaba and Lake Superior Railroad train crash on SB US 141 in the Pound, WI area in heavy (reeeeeeeally heavy!) fog during the morning hours of Wednesday. 2021-12-15.  There was one fatal (a truck driver).

https://www.wbay.com/2021/12/15/crews-scene-major-crash-marinette-county/

This is where the somewhat recently  built near interstate-compatible US 141 four lanes makes an 'S' curve across the railroad a very short distance south of its newly built interchange with with WI 64.

Will WisDOT announce the construction of a bridge to replace the level railroad crossing, as well as one just north of nearby Lena, WI, within the next few years?

Mike

[JREwing78]

Will WisDOT announce the construction of a bridge to replace the level railroad crossing in the next few years?

Not likely, not when other similar railroad crossings exist on more heavily trafficked corridors, like US-151 outside of Waupun.
https://goo.gl/maps/wAagvcR1KPMu8mVW7

What I would expect out of WisDOT is a much better warning of the crossing itself. Michigan has flashing warning signs 1/2 mile from the crossing on its 4-lane "expressway" US-127 section (posted for 65 mph). https://goo.gl/maps/uJ1dqsnV56U9vY7a7

Better yet would be something that is tied to the activation of the crossing itself, so that the lights are activated only when a train is actually crossing. Michigan's solution is an actual stoplight, but their original plan was to take advantage of a railroad turnback to eliminate the crossing. Said turnback hasn't happened yet, but the assumption appears to be that it will eventually happen.

Honestly, if it was up to me (and unlimited resources existed), there would be no such crossings on high-speed expressway sections. Yes, it's expensive to build and maintain an overpass, but nobody is expecting an actual train at these kinds of crossings. This one appears to be fairly regularly used and probably merits a crossing. Ditto for the one a few miles south of this one, just north of Lena.

Ultimately, people were not driving for conditions, and I hope the ones who caused the accident(s) at the crossing have the book thrown at them, particularly the one who killed the truck driver.

[skluth]

I'm really surprised Wisconsin didn't bridge these tracks when the four-lane US 141 was built. I don't remember this railroad being busy when I was a kid visiting my grandparents in Coleman in the 60's and they lived a half-block away. Maybe WisDOT was hoping this rail line would go out of service so they could convert it into another bike trail.

[SEWIGuy]

I'm really surprised Wisconsin didn't bridge these tracks when the four-lane US 141 was built. I don't remember this railroad being busy when I was a kid visiting my grandparents in Coleman in the 60's and they lived a half-block away. Maybe WisDOT was hoping this rail line would go out of service so they could convert it into another bike trail.

If it's the mainline track, it runs regularly mostly carrying timber products to mills in Green Bay.

[triplemultiplex]

I'm really surprised Wisconsin didn't bridge these tracks when the four-lane US 141 was built. I don't remember this railroad being busy when I was a kid visiting my grandparents in Coleman in the 60's and they lived a half-block away.

Same.  Any active railroad should be bridged as part of such a construction effort to build rural freeway/expressways.  It's a huge safety risk.
The at-grades on US 151 at Beaver Dam and Waupun are equally ill-conceived and should be fixed.

Maybe WisDOT was hoping this rail line would go out of service so they could convert it into another bike trail.

Know that area, it would become another ATV trail.
Not implausible for those tracks to go out of service.  It's not THAT much of a 'detour' to send trains from Iron Mountain over to Powers to get to Green Bay and beyond.

[gr8daynegb]

In all honestly I've always regarded the by Lena the 141/railroad crossing as the more dangerous one.  Sad one person died, but could have been a whole lot worse

[peterj920]

I'm really surprised Wisconsin didn't bridge these tracks when the four-lane US 141 was built. I don't remember this railroad being busy when I was a kid visiting my grandparents in Coleman in the 60's and they lived a half-block away.

Same.  Any active railroad should be bridged as part of such a construction effort to build rural freeway/expressways.  It's a huge safety risk.
The at-grades on US 151 at Beaver Dam and Waupun are equally ill-conceived and should be fixed.

Maybe WisDOT was hoping this rail line would go out of service so they could convert it into another bike trail.

Know that area, it would become another ATV trail.
Not implausible for those tracks to go out of service.  It's not THAT much of a 'detour' to send trains from Iron Mountain over to Powers to get to Green Bay and beyond.

The line is operated by Escanaba & Lake Superior Railroad and it's their main line. Their customers are along that line along with a spur to Oconto Falls so shutting down the line would cause businesses along the line to lose rail service. 

[mgk920]

That ELS track was originally Milwaukee Road's line between Green Bay and Da Yoopee of Michigan and it has a surprising base of good, steady on line customers.  They only needed someone to provide good service at a good price.

Mike

[JoePCool14]

Maybe WisDOT was hoping this rail line would go out of service so they could convert it into another bike trail.

Know that area, it would become another ATV trail.
Not implausible for those tracks to go out of service.  It's not THAT much of a 'detour' to send trains from Iron Mountain over to Powers to get to Green Bay and beyond.

Right, and then they can have a pedestrian/bike crossing on a high-speed road just like on WI-11 around Monroe. I still do not understand how that was installed.

[mgk920]

Maybe WisDOT was hoping this rail line would go out of service so they could convert it into another bike trail.

Know that area, it would become another ATV trail.
Not implausible for those tracks to go out of service.  It's not THAT much of a 'detour' to send trains from Iron Mountain over to Powers to get to Green Bay and beyond.

Right, and then they can have a pedestrian/bike crossing on a high-speed road just like on WI-11 around Monroe. I still do not understand how that was installed.

Has the WIOUWASH State Trail (a former CNW railroad grade) been grade separated where it crosses WI 29 at Wittenberg, WI yet.

Mike