More Tolls on I-80 in PA Discussion

[mightyace]

I haven't read any anti-toll article on that site yet (although I usually only read the articles linked to at this forum). It's certainly not an independent, objective news site.

There aren't a lot, but there are a few on the con-side:
Bill to stop tolls on PA/I-80 could hit many interstate toll projects

PA/I-80 anti-toll application bill rejected in state house

Problems for Penn Pike in getting Feds OK to toll I-80 in legal counsel Memo

PA/I-80 toll valuation consultant runs jails, does deceptive name change

But, yes, not an objective news source but then again many TV networks and newspapers aren't objective either.

[Alps]

I would expect them to be pro-toll.  That's a lot different than showing bias in the journalism itself.  You can write unbiased pieces on favorable material only.  Just ask Fox News.

[Nexis4Jersey]

The US needs more Tolls , to fund are growing Rail network, and The NJTPK has funded about 40% of the ARC project into NYC.  The NJTPK isn't cost cutting , trust me.

[Scott5114]

Wait, you want to raise tolls to pay for railroads? What's going to pay for the roads then?

[mightyace]

Wait, you want to raise tolls to pay for railroads? What's going to pay for the roads then?

That's part of what the I-80 tolling project in PA is about.  The Philadelphia area transit agency (SEPTA) relies on rail for travel between the city and the suburbs, so the I-80 tolls or money free up by them would go to that and Pittsburgh's light rail as well as buses.

[Scott5114]

Oh. Okay, now I have completely new reasons to oppose the I-80 in PA toll proposal. Yay.

[Nexis4Jersey]

I-80 tolls would pay for the Keystone Corridor upgrade to True High Speed Rail and numerous Transit network projects around the state, like the proposed Wyoming Valley Light Rail or Lehigh Valley light Rail.  Or the Harrisburg Metro Commuter & Light Rail networks.  All these projects combined if built , which they will be by 2025 will serve 2.4 million keystone people.  Most of these projects will use Electric trains.

[mightyace]

I-80 tolls would pay for the Keystone Corridor upgrade to True High Speed Rail and numerous Transit network projects around the state, like the proposed Wyoming Valley Light Rail or Lehigh Valley light Rail.  Or the Harrisburg Metro Commuter & Light Rail networks.  All these projects combined if built , which they will be by 2025 will serve 2.4 million keystone people.  Most of these projects will use Electric trains.

And only the Wyoming Valley Light Rail is within even 25 miles of the I-80 corridor.  No help to those who would be paying the tolls.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Well, it improves life for a few hundred thousand people who live in people , then its worth it.  I would like to see at least 1 or 2 Toll Highways and every state ,to pay for are growing Transit & Rail Network instead of raising taxes.  & The Keystone Corridor upgrade would reduce traffic on I-76 & 80 heading to Pittsburgh or Ohio.

[Chris]

Yeah, the idea of paying for your own mobility...   

[froggie]

Well, it improves life for a few hundred thousand people who live in people , then its worth it.  I would like to see at least 1 or 2 Toll Highways and every state ,to pay for are growing Transit & Rail Network instead of raising taxes.  & The Keystone Corridor upgrade would reduce traffic on I-76 & 80 heading to Pittsburgh or Ohio.

Sure it'd benefit the few hundred thousand people who live there.  But that doesn't mean it should be funded on the backs of drivers who are dozens of miles away and would see no benefit from such projects.  I'd also like details on how you can claim the Keystone Corridor will reduce traffic on I-80.  I-76, perhaps...but not I-80.

[mightyace]

^^^^
That's been exactly my point, froggie, the couple hundred thousand people along the I-80 corridor will suffer so that those in richer parts of the state can benefit.

As I've said many times, if the I-80 tolls would go strictly for maintenance on I-80 and NOTHING ELSE, I still wouldn't be a supporter, but I wouldn't be opposed to it.

[Scott5114]

Let's tax the Canadians to pay for I-80's maintenance. Oh, that'd be unfair, you say? Hmm.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Well , you guys obvious don't understand where i'm coming form , its more about Equal balance of Transit and Highways & Railway networks.  Weather you like it or not I-80 Tolls will pay for new Transit & Railway Projects.  Alot people i know in PA are will to take a Train or Light Rail as long as it goes to a Major Destination point.  Alot parts of PA need Railway and Transit Expansion , Southeastern , Harrisburg-Lancaster-York area, Northeastern , Pittsburgh Metro.  PA Roads & Highways are very narrow and over capacity, especial in Suburban & Urban areas.  You need to start building your networks up now , before the Highways & Roads become girdlocked.

[mightyace]

I think I understand where you're coming from.  I just don't agree with it.

Other than due to a major accident, weather, Penn State football game or Pocono NASCAR race. I-80 has NEVER been gridlocked and outside of Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Williamsport and Erie no roads north of I-80 have likely ever been gridlocked or will be any time soon.

It doesn't matter whether or not the people on the I-80 corridor would take Transit or Railway as I doubt there will be any there in the next 50 years outside of Stroudsburg, Hazleton, Williamsport and State College and two of them (Stoudsburg, State College) are college towns.  Yet, they will be paying for the transit nonetheless.

Of course, that is assuming the I-80 tolls go through.  And, even the latest decision is still pending.

[njroadhorse]

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but the tolls on I-80 don't work if you toll the offramps to interchanges because not as many drivers get off of I-80 in PA.  Most are just headed straight through, unless they are getting off at major roads like I-79, I-99, US 15, or I-81.

[mightyace]

^^^

I wasn't referring to the possible location of tolling points.  I was responding to Nexis4Jersey quote about gridlock and how rare it is on I-80.

[njroadhorse]

^^^

I wasn't referring to the possible location of tolling points.  I was responding to Nexis4Jersey quote about gridlock and how rare it is on I-80.

No, I know that.  I was just throwing that out there.

[mightyace]

^^^

I wasn't referring to the possible location of tolling points.  I was responding to Nexis4Jersey quote about gridlock and how rare it is on I-80.

No, I know that.  I was just throwing that out there.

I addressed my opinion on that in the other I-80 thread.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=458.msg52225#msg52225

[Nexis4Jersey]

I wasn't really saying there was congestion , but i'm saying I-80 tolling is need for Railway and Transit expansions around the state.  Which will be need in the future.  PA-309 is heavily congestion , restoring service to Allentown would help re leave that in conjunction with the Lehigh Valley Light Rail and NJT Raritan Valley Rail ext, which would relive congestion on I-78.  Light Rail & Railway expansion projects bring growth and Urban Renewal to many cities , that were once down on there days.  Its embrassing that most cities outside SE PA don't Rail.  Over the next 20 years you'll see a number of projects ,there are rumors in the Rail fan sites that PA-NY-MD will build or restore 4000 passenger rail miles.

[froggie]

but i'm saying I-80 tolling is need for Railway and Transit expansions around the state.

What you're saying here is that you support tolling I-80 as a cash cow for projects that will have absolutely zero impact on I-80 traffic.  Which, as I mentioned in another thread, would be a violation of Federal law.

PA-309 is heavily congestion , restoring service to Allentown would help re leave that in conjunction with the Lehigh Valley Light Rail and NJT Raritan Valley Rail ext, which would relive congestion on I-78.

Run-on sentences here...but you make a stronger case for tolling PA 309 or I-78 than you do for tolling I-80.

Light Rail & Railway expansion projects bring growth and Urban Renewal to many cities

IF DONE RIGHT.  But even that is no guarantee that you'll bring growth to the cities.

Its embrassing that most cities outside SE PA don't Rail.

Have you stopped to consider that most cities outside southeast PA don't have the density or population to support rail?

Over the next 20 years you'll see a number of projects ,there are rumors in the Rail fan sites that PA-NY-MD will build or restore 4000 passenger rail miles.

Exactly that.  Rumors.  If you have data or official comments to back those claims up, that's one thing.  But without something to substantiate them, rumors are just that...rumors.

[mightyace]

^^^
Froggie,
I couldn't have said it better myself.

As for "plans," there have been plans to restore the Lackawanna Cutoff in Northern New Jersey and extend commuter rail to Scranton ever since Contrail abandoned the line in the 1980s.  The first baby steps of this are being taken but it could be many years until Scranton sees a passenger train not run by Steamtown.

Now, part of the justification for this will be to take traffic off I-80, but in New Jersey not Pennsylvania.  And, personally, I don't see too many people west of Stroudsburg taking a train into NYC to work each day.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Actually work could begin as soon as next year and with Electrification NJT will use there new Euro-Locos which will go 130mph and 90mph on curves, its on there capital budget projects and is 70% paided for the Andover Station should reopen later this year , the first of many phases.

[mightyace]

Actually work could begin as soon as next year and with Electrification NJT will use there new Euro-Locos which will go 130mph and 90mph on curves, its on there capital budget projects and is 70% paided for the Andover Station should reopen later this year , the first of many phases.

Yes, that is the small, 7-8 miles IIRC, section that is being worked on.  There's still 20-30 miles to get to the Delaware Water Gap and Stroudsburg, let alone Scranton.  The time frame I've been talking about is for the whole shebang.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Well , there in the inspecting phase now , and planning stages for stations in the PA side , i think i know what i'm talking here , since i'm a rail fanner here    I use multiple sites and resources and before i open my mouth on here.