Cops pulling people over (Re: Driving To Maine)

[J N Winkler]

And I'd think anything...what's the word? - permanent, inherent, built-in...about your car that's legal in your home state would be legal (for you) in any state.

The general rule of thumb is that if any OEM feature on a car is legal in the state of first registration, then that feature will not be a barrier to re-registering the car in any other state--much less simply passing through that state.  This is why California will allow you to bring a car in from out of state which meets federal but not California emissions standards.

These problems with equipment faults (tinted windows, too many windshield cracks, and the like) are always the result of aftermarket changes or normal wear and tear.  No state has a minimum pass-through requirement which is higher than the smallest pass-through provided by the automobile industry, so a car with just its OEM window tinting is legal to drive everywhere in the US.  AZDude's problem, which he has previously described in another thread, is clearly the result of aftermarket tint.

That doesn't mean that our police departments - with all due respect - don't include their share of idiots like any other segment of the population, but I can't imagine a "ban" - a ban in some cop's mind, let's be clear - on driving without a front license plate making it through the courts.

I have never heard of the police hassling people for not having a front license plate when those vehicles are registered in states which do not require front license plates.  I have had problems, however, with "concerned citizens" assuming that front license plates are required everywhere and treating me like a criminal because my Kansas-registered car does not have one.

[Brandon]

I have never heard of the police hassling people for not having a front license plate when those vehicles are registered in states which do not require front license plates.  I have had problems, however, with "concerned citizens" assuming that front license plates are required everywhere and treating me like a criminal because my Kansas-registered car does not have one.

I've had a similar issue with "concern citizens" here in Illinois regarding village/city stickers on cars.  Most municipalities in Illinois issue a vehicle tax sticker for the windshield.  Joliet does not, and has not for the last 17-18 years.

[froggie]

I've had a similar issue with "concern citizens" here in Illinois regarding village/city stickers on cars.  Most municipalities in Illinois issue a vehicle tax sticker for the windshield.  Joliet does not, and has not for the last 17-18 years.

Have not had that problem in Virginia, which has something similar except for those few jurisdictions (Virginia Beach and Fairfax County among them) who have been allowed to opt out of the sticker.

[realjd]

I travel regularly for work. I'll often end up renting a car with out-of-state plates. I've never, ever had a problem with not having a front license plate in a state that uses them. And as an added bonus, you'll be immune to many of the red light cameras that only photograph the front of the car.

As for window tint, I do know one person who got a ticket for FL-legal tinting while out of state. He was pulled over for speeding but the cop wrote him the tint ticket instead to cut him a break - no points and much cheaper. Other than that, my car with FL-legal aftermarket tint has been through a large number of states without issue.

Watch out for any aftermarket lighting modifications you've done. Police do enforce laws against things like ground effect lights even if you're from a state that allows them.

[1995hoo]

I've had a similar issue with "concern citizens" here in Illinois regarding village/city stickers on cars.  Most municipalities in Illinois issue a vehicle tax sticker for the windshield.  Joliet does not, and has not for the last 17-18 years.

Have not had that problem in Virginia, which has something similar except for those few jurisdictions (Virginia Beach and Fairfax County among them) who have been allowed to opt out of the sticker.

I remember a news story in the Daily Progress some years ago about Charlottesville parking enforcement ticketing vehicles from Virginia Beach for not having decals. At the time the City of Virginia Beach was one of only three jurisdictions in Virginia not to use the decals (Abingdon and York Counties were the others), and the tickets were dropped when the car owners went to court to fight them, but the Charlottesville police were unapologetic and said that they'd continue to write the tickets because they didn't consider it their problem to determine where a car was registered. I'm pretty certain they've changed that policy now that several other jurisdictions have dropped the decals, as I've parked in Charlottesville quite a few times in recent years on football trips and have never been ticketed for not having the sticker. It was never all that clear how many of the cars were students' cars, how many were from football traffic, and how many were random visitors.

(I DID keep the Fairfax County stickers on both of my cars for a couple of years after we stopped having to get them, though, because I figured that the expired one would confirm to parking enforcement in Arlington or Alexandria that it was legitimate for me not to have a current one. Never had a problem, and I eventually removed the decals out of concern that DC would ticket me for having an expired/invalid decal on my windshield.)

[mightyace]

License plate shouldn't be an issue.  Window tint might, though.

Another point on this is that license plates (single or double) are government issued while window tinting is an option applied at the request of the car owner.

Which brings up something else, over the years in here in Tennessee, I've noticed that many drivers who've moved in from other states who've kept their front plates from anther state.  IMO, that should not be legal.  If you want to put a plate on front here saying "I love my old state!" then fine otherwise, you should get a fine.  Former Texans seems to be the worst offenders of this type in Tennessee.

[agentsteel53]

I've noticed that many drivers who've moved in from other states who've kept their front plates from anther state.  IMO, that should not be legal. 

I agree.  that's mismatching identification.  the only way you should be allowed to do so is if the front plate is blatantly different (I've seen German plates kept up front, with their clearly different form factor, readily distinguished at great distance) ... or if you're the 18 wheeler from Duel!

[realjd]

Which brings up something else, over the years in here in Tennessee, I've noticed that many drivers who've moved in from other states who've kept their front plates from anther state.  IMO, that should not be legal.  If you want to put a plate on front here saying "I love my old state!" then fine otherwise, you should get a fine.  Former Texans seems to be the worst offenders of this type in Tennessee.

New Yorkers pull that crap all the time here in Florida.

As for foreign plates, i would have the same concern. European plates are perfectly valid in the US. They are just uncommon. I saw a Euro-style RV with full German plates (EU/D) only a few weeks ago driving down I95. And living near an air force base, it's not uncommon to see NATO/USA Euro-compliant plates driving around.

The reverse is also true. I saw a car with New York plates driving around in London a few months ago.

[AZDude]

That doesn't bother me to have an old out of state plate in the front.  Provided your new residence only requires a rear plate.  I would probably do it too.  Although, I would take it off when traveling.

[hbelkins]

My wife has an old personalized Kentucky plate on the front of her vehicle that is not the current design, nor does it match the plate currently on the back of her vehicle. The current version of the personalized plate is on another vehicle that we own. She has driven from Oklahoma and Texas to Massachusetts and New York, and from Georgia and Alabama to Illinois and Indiana, without any problems.

[Dr Frankenstein]

I've been a bit paranoid back when I started driving out of province. Not in Ontario (they're used to seeing Quebecers in their province), but in NY, VT, NH and MA. I did not know how tolerant they were on minor speeding so I would stick to the limit, no more... but what bothered me the most is that in QC, we have no front plates, no date stickers on our plates, no inspection stickers; almost nothing except one naked (no stickers) license plate on the rear. I thought that would be problematic in places where Quebecers are not common sight.

[Michael in Philly]

Which brings up something else, over the years in here in Tennessee, I've noticed that many drivers who've moved in from other states who've kept their front plates from anther state.  IMO, that should not be legal.  If you want to put a plate on front here saying "I love my old state!" then fine otherwise, you should get a fine.  Former Texans seems to be the worst offenders of this type in Tennessee.

New Yorkers pull that crap all the time here in Florida.

As for foreign plates, i would have the same concern. European plates are perfectly valid in the US. They are just uncommon. I saw a Euro-style RV with full German plates (EU/D) only a few weeks ago driving down I95. And living near an air force base, it's not uncommon to see NATO/USA Euro-compliant plates driving around.

The reverse is also true. I saw a car with New York plates driving around in London a few months ago.

European plates don't bother me:  the number of people who are Americans trying to tell us (or create the impression) that they took delivery of their 325 in Bavaria so outnumbers the bona fide European sightings that I just assume a European plate on the front of a car is, well, let's call it decorative:  it only counts (for my own license-plate spotting purposes, for example) if it's on the back of the car with no North American plate in sight.

[BigMattFromTexas]

Here's a crazy one;
My mom was driving from Angelo to Brownwood. One the other side of the road there was a state trooper on the shoulder, and a car passing him. The car went over the yellow line, so my mom got onto the shoulder, well apparently you can't do that in the Coleman district! She got pulled over and given a warning for "Driving on the Improved shoulder when restricted." So next time you see a car coming at you, make sure not to get on that 'improved shoulder'..
That day I also met Jordan Shipley at Lake Brownwood.. Ha unrelated but who cares?!
BigMatt

[PAHighways]

One thing I do see them doing in Illinois is standing half out of their cars for speed patrol.  Very dangerous, IMHO.  All it takes is one errant car to cut them in half.

The most dangerous thing I've seen a trooper do was coming home from a family trip to DC back in 1992.  MSP caught my dad doing 72.4 on I-70, and upon coming around a bend and down a straight-away, there was a trooper standing in the passing lane motioning over into the median.  I was sitting in the passenger seat and told him he should move over to the right because there must be something up in the left lane.

[agentsteel53]

She got pulled over and given a warning for "Driving on the Improved shoulder when restricted." So next time you see a car coming at you, make sure not to get on that 'improved shoulder'..

yeah I'll just get into a head-on collision instead.  that has to be one of the most dickheaded traffic stops I've ever heard of. 

[OracleUsr]

I drove around in NC for almost a year after moving from Maryland, with the MD license plate still on my front bumper (NC doesn't require front license plates), and only removed it when I took a vacation on the Eastern Shore the next year.

[mtantillo]

The single-plate thing SHOULDN'T be an issue, though of course nothing is guaranteed. Even DC, which requires both front and rear plates and enforces it as to non-residents, makes an exception for residents of jurisdictions that issue only one plate. If they don't ticket for it, surely nobody else would, as DC is DRACONIAN. I know a guy, Virginia resident, who got a ticket in DC for "improper display of a license plate." His offense? The "month" and "year" stickers were reversed from how Virginia says they're supposed to go–that is, Virginia says the month sticker is to go on the left and the year on the right. This guy had them backwards, which for some reason isn't unusual in Virginia even though there's really no reason for not putting them on correctly. Either way, who cares as long as it's clear when the plate expires, right???? Not in the eyes of the DC ticket writers!!!

Missouri plates are the worst.  On their new plates, apparently you are supposed to put the stickers in the middle of the plate.  But on their older plates, the stickers were supposed to go in the corners, but people used to put them in the middle anyway.  Rarely do I see people put stickers in the middle of other state's plates...must be a Missouri regionalism. 

Everyone always gets a kick out of my DC licence plate, which says "see window sticker" where the expiration stickers would otherwise go.  Personally, I  don't see the need for expiration stickers on the plate itself, its not like you can really read them at speed, and nowadays the police have their  license plate scanners hooked up to a computer which will instantly tell them the status of the plate in question.  The window sticker method is in use in DC and NY State, and seems more user friendly, and can hold more information, than a tiny sticker on the plate. 

[mtantillo]

Aren't there reciprocity statutes that govern this type of thing? The same type of laws that permit you to drive in state A with a valid license from state B? And, are there any western states that still allow you to get a license at age 14? In my lifetime 16 has always been the required age in Kentucky but I remember that ages varied years ago. Is that still the case, or is the driver's license age pretty much standardized like the drinking age?

There usually are, but not always.  After I got my license at 16, I remember reading New York wouldn't let anyone under 18 drive even if they have a valid license from another state.  This may still be true today.  I'm sure one of our NY residents could confirm or deny this.

The way I understood the rules from the 1990's, when I lived in NY, was that anyone from out of state who was under 18 years of age, their license, regardless of the privileges afforded to them by their home state, was considered to be a Junior License in New York.  Thus, upstate, you could drive during the prescribed hours (presumably the work/school rules wouldn't apply since you were not a resident).  But downstate, I think a Junior License was just like a learner's permit (needed a parent or other licensed driver in the car with you), and in New York City, a Junior License was a worthless piece of plastic. 

At that time, I believe you had to be 18 to drive with a learner's permit in NYC (and then only in a driver's ed car with dual controls), so a lot of my friends from NYC got learner's permits at 16 and took driver's ed in the suburbs to get their license for use outside of NYC.  But...a New York State resident could get a Senior License at age 17 if you took driver's ed.  Senior licenses are valid everywhere in NY State.  So if you took driver's ed in the suburbs or upstate, and got a Senior License, you could drive in NYC at age 17 (even as a NYC resident, assuming you took drivers ed outside NYC).  I was pulled over in Queens by NYPD, a week before my 18th birthday with a NY Senior License.  If it was not legal for me to be driving in NYC, I'm sure the officer would have said something. 

So in otherwords, if you are 17 and have the equivalent of a "senior" license from your home state, it would be considered a junior license and not valid in NYC if you were not from NY, and it would be considered a senior license and valid in NYC if you were from NY. 

I'm sure the rules are likely different now as a result of graduated licensing requirements. 

While it might seem semi-unfair that this is what NY does (or used to do at least), consider this..., it really only impacts minors from  out-of-state. Minors have fewer rights than people do once they reach the age of majority, including, apparently, the right to travel alone after dark across state lines. 

[Scott5114]

I'm pretty sure you could get a ticket arising from that thrown out in court if you chose to make a fuss about it, due to the Full Faith & Credit clause of the Constitution and/or any sort of reciprocity agreement your state had with others. If you're under 18 and legally driving under a license from another state, it seems like it shouldn't be possible for NY to tell you your home state doesn't know what they're doing giving you a license.

[mtantillo]

I'm pretty sure you could get a ticket arising from that thrown out in court if you chose to make a fuss about it, due to the Full Faith & Credit clause of the Constitution and/or any sort of reciprocity agreement your state had with others. If you're under 18 and legally driving under a license from another state, it seems like it shouldn't be possible for NY to tell you your home state doesn't know what they're doing giving you a license.

I agree that a court would likely show leniency in such a case.  However I'm not so sure full faith and credit would necessarily apply.  It would depend on if the minimum age for unrestricted driving is part of NY's driver license laws, or if it is a separate law that applies to anyone.  If New York State law sets 17 as the absolute minimum age for full driving privileges, I'm not so sure that just because you have a license from another state at age 16 that NY is obliged to recognize it as a license for full driving privileges. 

Now if someone from New Jersey who is 17 and has a full license gets nailed for no license in NYC because they didn't realize that it was equivalent to a junior license in  NY, which is not valid for driving in NYC, then I would say you have a good case for Full Faith and Credit.  That's because people from NY are allowed to drive in NYC at age 17 with a senior license, and by automatically refusing to recognize ANY license from NJ as equivalent would be very blatant discrimination by state of residency. 

But if NY doesn't let anyone below 17 have full driving privileges, then I would say that applies to people from out of state as well. 

[US71]

http://road-less-taken.blogspot.com/2011/06/its-trap.html

My own experience with getting pulled over

[Michael in Philly]

Paranoid pondering of the day:  If you enter the Pennsylvania Turnpike at exit 201 at 8:50, and leave it at exit 326 at 10:43 - 125 miles in 113 minutes (with a stop at the bad Roy Rogers at the service area west of Carlisle), speed limit 65 - does the E-ZPass computer inform the state police?

I'm being silly, but they probably could....

[Brandon]

Paranoid pondering of the day:  If you enter the Pennsylvania Turnpike at exit 201 at 8:50, and leave it at exit 326 at 10:43 - 125 miles in 113 minutes (with a stop at the bad Roy Rogers at the service area west of Carlisle), speed limit 65 - does the E-ZPass computer inform the state police?

I'm being silly, but they probably could....

No.  In fact, the only documented case of a toll ticket (yes, ticket, not EZPass) being used for speed patrol was on the NYS Thruway.  There is no other known instance of toll collection being used for speed patrol.  In fact, here, the ISTHA has gone on record that they will not use IPass/EZPass data for speed patrol.  They know what they have to lose if they ever did such a stunt.

[vdeane]

I'm interested in hearing about that Thruway story.  The only instance I know of a toll ticket being used for speed enforcement was a made up story my MA 131 professor used to teach the mean value theorem.

[PAHighways]

Paranoid pondering of the day:  If you enter the Pennsylvania Turnpike at exit 201 at 8:50, and leave it at exit 326 at 10:43 - 125 miles in 113 minutes (with a stop at the bad Roy Rogers at the service area west of Carlisle), speed limit 65 - does the E-ZPass computer inform the state police?

I'm being silly, but they probably could....

I used to hear the same conspiracy theory when tickets were primarily used since the machine prints the entry time on them.  I do recall seeing somewhere the PTC expressly stating that tickets and/or E-ZPass were not used for speed enforcement.