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Author Topic: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)  (Read 29964 times)

rte66man

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2018, 08:55:58 AM »

They are creating another Dead Man's Curve situation.  THat is the interchange of I44/OK74/OK66 in northwest OKC.  Westbound 44 has one exit lane for both OK66 and NB OK74.  Westbound 44 continues over Dead Man's Curve, narrows to one lane, and merges with SBOK74 just south of NW36th.  When it was originally built in the 70's, westbound 44 also had EB OK66 to SB44 traffic that joined.  All 3 lanes had to merge into one lane in less than 1/4 mile.  You can imagine how bad the traffic stacked up.  ODOT came through about 5 years ago and moved the EB66 to SB44 ramp so it goes onto the frontage road, through a signalized intersection with NW36th, then uses the existing 36th onramp to enter 44.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.5101572,-97.5758986,773m/data=!3m1!1e3
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bugo

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2018, 02:14:06 PM »

I-44 in OKC is a terrible road. To stay on I-44 all the way through town you have to change freeways 4 times. ODOT made a bunch of questionable engineering decisions back in the 1960s and 1970s. I-244 and 444 are perfect examples.  I-244 is 15.75 miles long and has 23 left exits or entrances. What were they smoking when they designed these roads?
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2018, 09:03:47 PM »

I-44 in OKC is a terrible road. To stay on I-44 all the way through town you have to change freeways 4 times.
Why doesn’t I-44 just continue straight down Kilpatrick Turnpike then turn onto SH-74 and continue straight from there?

They could make several improvements on that by adding a three lane flyover where the current single lane one exists on over Portland and Memorial. They can redo the I-240/I-44 interchange to have I-240 entrance and exits on the left by building new flyovers.
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bugo

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2018, 10:13:40 PM »

I-44 in OKC is a terrible road. To stay on I-44 all the way through town you have to change freeways 4 times.
Why doesn’t I-44 just continue straight down Kilpatrick Turnpike then turn onto SH-74 and continue straight from there?

Because the Kilpatrick Turnpike is a relatively new road. I-44 was extended from the I-35 interchange north of OKC to Wichita Falls in 1982, and the Kilpatrick wasn't built until a decade or so later. Unless the Kilpatrick is extended to meet I-44 south of OKC, then I don't expect I-44 will ever be rerouted onto it.

A good alternative to I-44 in OKC is to take I-35 to I-40. It goes through downtown but mileage is similar and the roads are better.
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2018, 06:35:34 PM »

If regional planners had ever been on the ball the past 30 years Oklahoma City would now have an effective outer loop highway. They let the SW end of the Kilpatrick Turnpike get bottled up with uncontrolled development, which cut off a South-then-East extension over to Norman. Of course, OK-9 is starting to get swallowed up with development. I don't know why OTA ended the H.E. Bailey turnpike extension where they did, 6 miles short of reaching I-35. That last mile next to I-35 would be tricky to negotiate.

But OTA is going to build that Oklahoma County turnpike East of Midwest City from I-44 down to I-35. I don't know who would use it though. I would never have any need to do so on trips between Lawton and Tulsa (or farther NE). The South end provides no direct connection down to Moore & Norman and back over to I-35 and I-44. I see no point in building that road unless it's part of an actual outer loop plan. ODOT and OTA appear to have no such plans for Oklahoma City. They're just plopping down little road additions here or there. 1 mile extension of OK-74 North of the Kilpatrick? Woo-hoo! Curvy as f*** Kilpatrick extension to Airport Road? Oh wow!
:rolleyes:

Quote from: bugo
I-44 in OKC is a terrible road. To stay on I-44 all the way through town you have to change freeways 4 times. ODOT made a bunch of questionable engineering decisions back in the 1960s and 1970s. I-244 and 444 are perfect examples. I-244 is 15.75 miles long and has 23 left exits or entrances. What were they smoking when they designed these roads?

In the case of I-44 in OKC, it was originally a bigger I-240 loop up past Penn Square Mall. IIRC the segment between Broadway Extension/I-235 and I-35 wasn't finished until the mid to late 1980's after the I-44 designation was applied. There was still an at-grade intersection or two along the route.
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bugo

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2018, 07:01:36 PM »

In the case of I-44 in OKC, it was originally a bigger I-240 loop up past Penn Square Mall. IIRC the segment between Broadway Extension/I-235 and I-35 wasn't finished until the mid to late 1980's after the I-44 designation was applied. There was still an at-grade intersection or two along the route.

Wasn't the part north of I-40 called I-440 at one time as well?
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2018, 01:25:26 AM »

Oklahoma City might be big enough to support a couple of regional light rail lines, such as one line from downtown OKC to the Will Rogers Airport and then perhaps another line North-South from Edmond down thru OKC and then to Norman. Outside of that buses would be more cost effective.

Quote from: bugo
Wasn't the part north of I-40 called I-440 at one time as well?

I don't think so. From my first visits to OKC when I was a little kid in the 1970's that road was I-240.

Quote
I really don't think that's the case, particularly in the Lawton, OKC (and it's burbs), Tulsa (and it's burbs), Bartlesville/Dewey, and McAlester/Krebs areas, and some decent intercity connections.

That depends on the type of mass transit being discussed. I think Lawton does okay with the LATS bus system. However, if I recall correctly, the bus lines do get a fair amount of grant subsidies. The system is not self sufficient. I wouldn't be surprised if Uber and Lyft are both taking a serious bite out of LATS' revenue and bus ridership.

There is no way Lawton could afford to install any rail-based system. That kind of thing is strictly for highly populated areas with a great tax base.
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rte66man

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2018, 09:02:41 PM »

In the case of I-44 in OKC, it was originally a bigger I-240 loop up past Penn Square Mall. IIRC the segment between Broadway Extension/I-235 and I-35 wasn't finished until the mid to late 1980's after the I-44 designation was applied. There was still an at-grade intersection or two along the route.

Only on maps.  I do not recall ever seeing it signed that way. 

Wasn't the part north of I-40 called I-440 at one time as well?
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2018, 01:32:53 PM »

I specifically remember seeing I-240 signs near Penn Square Mall back in 1980. I had a Great Aunt and Uncle who lived just South of Penn Square Mall close to the Penn Ave exit. My brother and I walked our dogs down to what's now the I-44/Penn exit. I remember seeing the post signs with I-240 shields mounted onto them.
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bugo

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2018, 02:07:06 PM »

It wouldn't work here because it is too sprawled out. There would have to be hundreds if not thousands of buses running 24/7/365 for them to be practical. The thought of light rail in Tulsa is laughable at best and ridiculous at worst. There's simply nowhere to put the tracks.
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Scott5114

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2018, 03:31:39 AM »

I think the model that would work best for OKC is to set up a line to tie together what high density nodes already exist–Campus Corner, downtown Norman, downtown OKC, Bricktown, Automobile Alley, the Paseo–with plenty of stops placed in between to try to kickstart new high-density development around them. My understanding is that is how the Washington Metro developed.
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2018, 03:50:01 AM »

Yeah, a light rail system in OKC could sort of work if it had one big North-South line serving the most important stops between Edmond, downtown OKC and Norman and then an East-West line starting at Will Rogers airport, meeting the North-South line downtown somewhere and then ending out in Midwest City near Tinker AFB. But then that still leaves out the Northwest Highway corridor off NW of downtown (a pretty important area). I'm sure there's other areas that would be miffed for being left out of a commuter rail service plan. It's a catch-22 situation to announce such a plan to the public.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2018, 05:50:01 AM »

Ideally, OKC needs about 5 billion to start a decent light rail network. Hopefully they skip past commuter rail for Norman and OKC and go straight to LRT.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2018, 12:28:15 AM »

I think this project is now fully funded or at least the reconstruction and widening of I-44. This press release doesn’t mention the interchange itself, but I’m guessing that is part of this project. For Tulsa’s sake, I hope this isn’t dragged into some 5+ year multi phase bullshit. Hopefully the money is there so it can all be built at once.

https://ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=44777
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bugo

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2018, 01:05:09 AM »

Riverside Drive just opened up from 31st north so that should take some traffic away from the 44/75 interchange. The new Riverside Drive features two tunnels.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2018, 12:39:13 AM »

There’s a single two lane tunnel under the airport.
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US 89

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2018, 09:27:38 AM »

What about the 23rd Street tunnels under the Oklahoma state capitol building in OKC?

rte66man

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2018, 10:32:01 PM »

What about the 23rd Street tunnels under the Oklahoma state capitol building in OKC?

23rd was trenched, then short portions were covered.  I don't consider it to be a tunnel but technically?
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2018, 10:57:37 PM »

Has there ever been a bored tunnel in Oklahoma? It was my understanding that a train track somewhere in the state has a bored tunnel. But that’s all i recall.
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bugo

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2018, 11:38:35 PM »

The rail tunnel is in LeFlore County just across the Arkansas line. It goes through Backbone Mountain.

Nexus 5X

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Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2020, 06:19:34 PM »

The second phase of this old stretch of freeway is set to begin in early 2021. The first phase rebuilding the I-44 bridges over 33rd are close to being finished. The next phase will ultimately construct the US75 interchange as a fully direct connect stack and that project has no identified funding so far.

Quote
The commission voted to award a contract for a $90 million project to widen I-44 and replace five bridges between Union Ave. and the west end of the Arkansas River bridge in Tulsa. This first phase in reconstruction of the I-44 and US-75 interchange is the single largest construction contract for a highway project in Tulsa and made possible thanks to a federal Infrastructure for Rebuilding America (INFRA) grant awarded to ODOT in 2018.

https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=61861
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2020, 01:27:38 PM »

When did the I-44/US-75 interchange change to a 4-level directional stack interchange? The last time I saw the plans it included 2 normal flyover ramps above the center of the interchange, a really long pinwheel-style interchange ramp going around the outside of the interchange and then a dinky little cloverleaf loop for the last movement.
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sparker

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2020, 02:52:06 PM »

When did the I-44/US-75 interchange change to a 4-level directional stack interchange? The last time I saw the plans it included 2 normal flyover ramps above the center of the interchange, a really long pinwheel-style interchange ramp going around the outside of the interchange and then a dinky little cloverleaf loop for the last movement.

You wouldn't by chance have a copy of those original plans -- that sounds more cost-effective than duplication of those stacks from Baja Oklahoma (yeah, I've read several of Dan Jenkins' books).  Now -- if US 75 were to be upgraded as a freeway all the way down to the I-40/INT interchange -- with the likely ensuing uptick in AADT -- a stack might be warranted.  But for the present, something a little less "glamorous" would suffice.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: I-44/US-75 Interchange Reconstruction(Tulsa)
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2020, 04:42:03 PM »

When did the I-44/US-75 interchange change to a 4-level directional stack interchange? The last time I saw the plans it included 2 normal flyover ramps above the center of the interchange, a really long pinwheel-style interchange ramp going around the outside of the interchange and then a dinky little cloverleaf loop for the last movement.
Yeah, you’re right, there is one clover movement I forgot about that one.
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