New MUTCD announced

[crispy93]

Bay City and Somerset were the fictional locales in which the soap opera "Another World" was set when I watched it as a teen in the seventies. The show was successful enough that "Somerset" was introduced as a spinoff, with the original series set in Bay City.

On Page 350, cities of Brookfield and Green Bay changed to fictional cities of Somerset and Bay City.

Bay City, MI, would like a word.

As would Somerset, WI...

This is so funny. Figure 2E-56 is from Roseanne. Lanford and Elgin, Delaware St was the street they lived on, Third Ave is the intersection they lived at (they used many establishing shots of the street sign)

[Henry]

I also noted that Figure 2E-39 represents an alternate reality where the Somerset Freeway is built, but I-695 branches off to the south instead of the north. The reality is, while there was indeed a proposed I-695 in NJ, it would've connected with I-287 via a one-mile spur, thus contradicting the Camden control city as portrayed in the diagram.

[freebrickproductions]

Just noticed that the latest MUTCD now officially allows 4 inch indications for bicycle signals.

[Rothman]

Someone down in Plano, TX put together this comparison of the old and new MUTCDs:

https://dallas.texite.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/11th-Edition-MUTCD-presentation.pdf

[Rothman]

As a tangent, I wonder how most people pronounce "MUTCD."  I've assumed M-U-T-C-D, but have also heard "MUTE-sid" recently.

[webny99]

Someone down in Plano, TX put together this comparison of the old and new MUTCDs:

https://dallas.texite.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/11th-Edition-MUTCD-presentation.pdf

If Section 2B.06 - Yield/Stop control SHALL not be used for speed control (page 5) is a new update, there's a stop sign near me that will become non-compliant, because it was installed explicitly for speed control.

[Scott5114]

As a tangent, I wonder how most people pronounce "MUTCD."  I've assumed M-U-T-C-D, but have also heard "MUTE-sid" recently.

I've called it "mutt kid" a few times joking around, but more frequently I'll just refer to it as "2009 spec", "1961 spec", etc.

[Big John]

If Section 2B.06 - Yield/Stop control SHALL not be used for speed control (page 5) is a new update, there's a stop sign near me that will become non-compliant, because it was installed explicitly for speed control.

I checked and it does say that for item 06 in that section.

06 YIELD or STOP signs shall not be used for speed control

But on the other hand, they removed the 85th percentile speed recommendation for setting speed limits.

[jeffandnicole]

Someone down in Plano, TX put together this comparison of the old and new MUTCDs:

https://dallas.texite.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/11th-Edition-MUTCD-presentation.pdf

If Section 2B.06 - Yield/Stop control SHALL not be used for speed control (page 5) is a new update, there's a stop sign near me that will become non-compliant, because it was installed explicitly for speed control.

It should already be non-compliant based on FHWA standards.

For the MUTCD, if something was installed or built when compliant at the time, then it's compliant until it's modified or replaced. It doesn't become non-compliant if a standard is updated. This is similar to electrical work in a house. If you have old wiring or sockets, you don't need to replace them when a new standard is approved. Only when you're replacing it or doing a signficsnt upgrade in that area of the house does it need to be brought up to code.

[Big John]

^^ It was changed from "should" (recommendation) to "shall" (requirement) in the 2023 edition.

[kphoger]

As a tangent, I wonder how most people pronounce "MUTCD."  I've assumed M-U-T-C-D, but have also heard "MUTE-sid" recently.

I say em-u-tee-cee-dee.  But sometimes I think "mucked" in my head.

[webny99]

For the MUTCD, if something was installed or built when compliant at the time, then it's compliant until it's modified or replaced. It doesn't become non-compliant if a standard is updated. This is similar to electrical work in a house. If you have old wiring or sockets, you don't need to replace them when a new standard is approved. Only when you're replacing it or doing a signficsnt upgrade in that area of the house does it need to be brought up to code.

That makes sense. This one probably won't be replaced or upgraded for a while, so I don't expect it to disappear anytime soon.

[jeffandnicole]

For the MUTCD, if something was installed or built when compliant at the time, then it's compliant until it's modified or replaced. It doesn't become non-compliant if a standard is updated. This is similar to electrical work in a house. If you have old wiring or sockets, you don't need to replace them when a new standard is approved. Only when you're replacing it or doing a signficsnt upgrade in that area of the house does it need to be brought up to code.

That makes sense. This one probably won't be replaced or upgraded for a while, so I don't expect it to disappear anytime soon.

Ram it with your car. It'll disappear. 

[webny99]

For the MUTCD, if something was installed or built when compliant at the time, then it's compliant until it's modified or replaced. It doesn't become non-compliant if a standard is updated. This is similar to electrical work in a house. If you have old wiring or sockets, you don't need to replace them when a new standard is approved. Only when you're replacing it or doing a signficsnt upgrade in that area of the house does it need to be brought up to code.

That makes sense. This one probably won't be replaced or upgraded for a while, so I don't expect it to disappear anytime soon.

Ram it with your car. It'll disappear. 

That would be contrary to the approach of most drivers which is just pretend it doesn't exist and ignore it entirely (especially when there is no one coming in the other direction). We used to sometimes see cops sitting out to catch stop sign runners but haven't seen that in years.

[mgk920]

Someone down in Plano, TX put together this comparison of the old and new MUTCDs:

https://dallas.texite.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/11th-Edition-MUTCD-presentation.pdf

If Section 2B.06 - Yield/Stop control SHALL not be used for speed control (page 5) is a new update, there's a stop sign near me that will become non-compliant, because it was installed explicitly for speed control.

Hasn't that been a rule for at least several updates now, some area suburban munis have had 4-way STOPs at minor residential intersections ruled unenforceable because of that over the past few decades.  There are a few others in the area that should go bye-bye due to that, too.

Also, without taking the time to read through it all, what it the status of that retroreflective yellow outline on black signal backplates?

BTW, I pronounce every letter in 'MUTCD', too.

Mike

[kphoger]

If Section 2B.06 - Yield/Stop control SHALL not be used for speed control (page 5) is a new update ...

Hasn't that been a rule for at least several updates now ...

No.

2009 MUTCD (2012 update):  "YIELD or STOP signs should not be used for speed control. [2B.04(05)]"

2023 MUTCD:  "YIELD or STOP signs shall not be used for speed control. [2B.06(06)]"

[mgk920]

If Section 2B.06 - Yield/Stop control SHALL not be used for speed control (page 5) is a new update ...

Hasn't that been a rule for at least several updates now ...

No.

2009 MUTCD (2012 update):  "YIELD or STOP signs should not be used for speed control. [2B.04(05)]"

2023 MUTCD:  "YIELD or STOP signs shall not be used for speed control. [2B.06(06)]"

Mike

[J N Winkler]

Someone down in Plano, TX put together this comparison of the old and new MUTCDs:

https://dallas.texite.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/11th-Edition-MUTCD-presentation.pdf

It definitely focuses on urban street problems.

As a tangent, I wonder how most people pronounce "MUTCD."  I've assumed M-U-T-C-D, but have also heard "MUTE-sid" recently.

In informal contexts, I will say it as a word.  Though I am not a practitioner, I had to refer to it once in a formal context (proposed signing to discourage library visitors from going into a parking-lot cul-de-sac that is hard to get out of and is used mostly by library staff), and I did so by reciting the full name and describing it as the adopted traffic manual under Kansas statute and Wichita city ordinance.

[hbelkins]

Someone down in Plano, TX put together this comparison of the old and new MUTCDs:

https://dallas.texite.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/11th-Edition-MUTCD-presentation.pdf

If Section 2B.06 - Yield/Stop control SHALL not be used for speed control (page 5) is a new update, there's a stop sign near me that will become non-compliant, because it was installed explicitly for speed control.

How do you know that? Just your supposition, or did the mayor tell you so?

Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering why you say that. Is it merely speculation on your part, or do you know it to be a fact?

[kphoger]

How do you know that? Just your supposition, or did the mayor tell you so?

Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering why you say that. Is it merely speculation on your part, or do you know it to be a fact?

Heh.  In Branson (MO), there's a stop sign that was installed for no reason other than that the mayor thought the cars were driving too fast past his family's kids' house.  I can't remember offhand which one now.

[webny99]

If Section 2B.06 - Yield/Stop control SHALL not be used for speed control (page 5) is a new update, there's a stop sign near me that will become non-compliant, because it was installed explicitly for speed control.

How do you know that? Just your supposition, or did the mayor tell you so?

Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering why you say that. Is it merely speculation on your part, or do you know it to be a fact?

It was long enough ago, and I was young enough when it was installed, that I don't have definitive proof.

What I do know is that it's not a warranted location for a stop sign based on traffic volumes, but the neighborhood requested that it be installed because traffic would speed down a long hill at double the speed limit or more to try and make it through the stoplight at the bottom (which was a thriller, but also rather dangerous). No one likes the stop sign, but it does get most traffic to at least slow down to a rolling stop, and has eliminated the most excessive speeding by making it unviable to make the green light from the top of the hill.

[Scott5114]

What makes anyone think that local governments care about sign warrants or the MUTCD in general?

- Put up a stop sign here because people are going too fast.
- MUTCD says we can't use stop signs for speed control. We have to do what the MUTCD says.
- What happens if we don't?
- We lose our federal funding.
- We don't get any federal funding.
- Oh.
- Put up a stop sign here because people are going too fast.

[chrisdiaz]

Hey, does anyone know where I would be able to get the new MUTCD in a hard cover format, like a textbook?

[webny99]

What makes anyone think that local governments care about sign warrants or the MUTCD in general?

- Put up a stop sign here because people are going too fast.
- MUTCD says we can't use stop signs for speed control. We have to do what the MUTCD says.
- What happens if we don't?
- We lose our federal funding.
- We don't get any federal funding.
- Oh.
- Put up a stop sign here because people are going too fast.

I guess I never thought about it like that. I just assumed that the DOT's at all levels of government would use it for guidance. Most badly substandard signage I've seen has been in parking lots and the like so I just chalked it up to it being manufactured/installed by a private company. But yes, add this to the list of reasons this one is not going away.

[Shedingtonian]

Hey, does anyone know where I would be able to get the new MUTCD in a hard cover format, like a textbook?

FHWA does not print copies of the MUTCD.

With that said...

• Parts 1 and 2.
• Part 3.
• Parts 4 to 9.

Buy at your own risk. I haven't had a good experience with Amazon and books.