How do you define Upstate NY?

[02 Park Ave]

Newspapers have not been mentioned yet.  Perhaps Albany Times Union availability could be incorporated into the definition of Upstateness.

[TravelingBethelite]

When my dad lived in Gouverneur he defined Albany as the divide and like father like son, the southern Albany metro area is downstate, north and a little bit to the west is upstate. East, well that's a whole 'nother country.

No it's not, that's Massachusetts. 

[The Nature Boy]

When my dad lived in Gouverneur he defined Albany as the divide and like father like son, the southern Albany metro area is downstate, north and a little bit to the west is upstate. East, well that's a whole 'nother country.

No it's not, that's Massachusetts. 

Or Vermont

[CapeCodder]

When my dad lived in Gouverneur he defined Albany as the divide and like father like son, the southern Albany metro area is downstate, north and a little bit to the west is upstate. East, well that's a whole 'nother country.

No it's not, that's Massachusetts. 

Was referring to the east side of the Hudson, not MA or VT. I should have been more specific.

[Roadgeekteen]

When my dad lived in Gouverneur he defined Albany as the divide and like father like son, the southern Albany metro area is downstate, north and a little bit to the west is upstate. East, well that's a whole 'nother country.

No it's not, that's Massachusetts. 

Was referring to the east side of the Hudson, not MA or VT. I should have been more specific.

I think they were joking.

[empirestate]

When my dad lived in Gouverneur he defined Albany as the divide and like father like son, the southern Albany metro area is downstate, north and a little bit to the west is upstate. East, well that's a whole 'nother country.

No it's not, that's Massachusetts. 

Was referring to the east side of the Hudson, not MA or VT. I should have been more specific.

Still accurate, though. NY frequently takes on the character of its bordering states.

[Rothman]

I have heard this, but even along NY 22, it still feels different than in MA.  I don't think the borders bleed that much.

[CapeCodder]

I always thought that the Taconics were the gateway to the Berkshires. Past the TSP and it seems like you're in MA.

[The Nature Boy]

When my dad lived in Gouverneur he defined Albany as the divide and like father like son, the southern Albany metro area is downstate, north and a little bit to the west is upstate. East, well that's a whole 'nother country.

No it's not, that's Massachusetts. 

Was referring to the east side of the Hudson, not MA or VT. I should have been more specific.

Still accurate, though. NY frequently takes on the character of its bordering states.

Yeah, Clinton, Essex, and Franklin Counties definitely feel like West Vermont. I'd also argue that Albany feels more similar to Springfield or Worcester than it does Syracuse, Rochester or Buffalo as well. The fact that Albany is a city prevents its northern suburbs from taking on TOO much of a Vermont feel but it's really noticeable as you drive up the Northway.

[TravelingBethelite]

If the residents of an area are NYC oriented, it's Downstate; if they aren't, it's Upstate.  That is what is different about their day-to-day life.  That is the only thing that differentiates Upstaters from Downstaters.

Are there any signs of being NYC-oriented we haven't touched upon yet?

If we are operating on the notion that a NYC-oriented area is classified as Downstate, then by technicality Fairfield (and parts of New Haven) County, Connecticut,  as well as Bergen, Essex, Hudson, (parts of) Passaic, and Hudson Counties, New Jersey are Downstate New York! Hell, we could classify the whole world as being downstate as the UN is headquartered in Manhattan, NYC.  (Before you lecture me, yes, I know the United Nations building sits on "international" land...)

[The Nature Boy]

If the residents of an area are NYC oriented, it's Downstate; if they aren't, it's Upstate.  That is what is different about their day-to-day life.  That is the only thing that differentiates Upstaters from Downstaters.

Are there any signs of being NYC-oriented we haven't touched upon yet?

If we are operating on the notion that a NYC-oriented area is classified as Downstate, then by technicality Fairfield (and parts of New Haven) County, Connecticut,  as well as Bergen, Essex, Hudson, (parts of) Passaic, and Hudson Counties, New Jersey are Downstate New York! Hell, we could classify the whole world as being downstate as the UN is headquartered in Manhattan, NYC.  (Before you lecture me, yes, I know the United Nations building sits on "international" land...)

Most New Englanders will tell you that Fairfield County, CT is not apart of New England. Downstate NY can have them!

[TravelingBethelite]

If the residents of an area are NYC oriented, it's Downstate; if they aren't, it's Upstate.  That is what is different about their day-to-day life.  That is the only thing that differentiates Upstaters from Downstaters.

Are there any signs of being NYC-oriented we haven't touched upon yet?

If we are operating on the notion that a NYC-oriented area is classified as Downstate, then by technicality Fairfield (and parts of New Haven) County, Connecticut,  as well as Bergen, Essex, Hudson, (parts of) Passaic, and Hudson Counties, New Jersey are Downstate New York! Hell, we could classify the whole world as being downstate as the UN is headquartered in Manhattan, NYC.  (Before you lecture me, yes, I know the United Nations building sits on "international" land...)

Most New Englanders will tell you that Fairfield County, CT is not apart of New England. Downstate NY can have them!

Living in Fairfield County, I utmostly agree. You definitely notice the culture shift when you cross the Housatonic (specifically, north of the Shelton area). I must admit though, despite having lived here all my life, I feel more like a New Englander at heart, and less a New Yorker. (I have had the sad distinction of being the only Pats/Red Sox fan in my school for at least 5 years straight...God, I still hate the ending of Super Bowl XLII!)

[kalvado]

If the residents of an area are NYC oriented, it's Downstate; if they aren't, it's Upstate.  That is what is different about their day-to-day life.  That is the only thing that differentiates Upstaters from Downstaters.

Are there any signs of being NYC-oriented we haven't touched upon yet?

If we are operating on the notion that a NYC-oriented area is classified as Downstate, then by technicality Fairfield (and parts of New Haven) County, Connecticut,  as well as Bergen, Essex, Hudson, (parts of) Passaic, and Hudson Counties, New Jersey are Downstate New York! Hell, we could classify the whole world as being downstate as the UN is headquartered in Manhattan, NYC.  (Before you lecture me, yes, I know the United Nations building sits on "international" land...)

If you will, there are 2 different entities: state of New York, legally defined as certain area on a map - a very strict definition; and New York City metropolitan area, which also has some definition from Census - but that definition being more lousy and open for discussion. I would say that intersection of these areas is a Downstate, at least most of discussion is focused on demarcation of NYC area. Including out of NY state areas is fun... But does little good towards upstate-downstate discussion

[The Nature Boy]

If the residents of an area are NYC oriented, it's Downstate; if they aren't, it's Upstate.  That is what is different about their day-to-day life.  That is the only thing that differentiates Upstaters from Downstaters.

Are there any signs of being NYC-oriented we haven't touched upon yet?

If we are operating on the notion that a NYC-oriented area is classified as Downstate, then by technicality Fairfield (and parts of New Haven) County, Connecticut,  as well as Bergen, Essex, Hudson, (parts of) Passaic, and Hudson Counties, New Jersey are Downstate New York! Hell, we could classify the whole world as being downstate as the UN is headquartered in Manhattan, NYC.  (Before you lecture me, yes, I know the United Nations building sits on "international" land...)

Most New Englanders will tell you that Fairfield County, CT is not apart of New England. Downstate NY can have them!

Living in Fairfield County, I utmostly agree. You definitely notice the culture shift when you cross the Housatonic (specifically, north of the Shelton area). I must admit though, despite having lived here all my life, I feel more like a New Englander at heart, and less a New Yorker. (I have had the sad distinction of being the only Pats/Red Sox fan in my school for at least 5 years straight...God, I still hate the ending of Super Bowl XLII!)

I once had a landlord from Connecticut who was a Yankees/Pats fan. I forgot where in the state he was from.

On the topic of "what is New England?" I dated a girl from eastern Long Island who tired to convince me that the eastern end of Long Island was New England in culture.

[Roadgeekteen]

If the residents of an area are NYC oriented, it's Downstate; if they aren't, it's Upstate.  That is what is different about their day-to-day life.  That is the only thing that differentiates Upstaters from Downstaters.

Are there any signs of being NYC-oriented we haven't touched upon yet?

If we are operating on the notion that a NYC-oriented area is classified as Downstate, then by technicality Fairfield (and parts of New Haven) County, Connecticut,  as well as Bergen, Essex, Hudson, (parts of) Passaic, and Hudson Counties, New Jersey are Downstate New York! Hell, we could classify the whole world as being downstate as the UN is headquartered in Manhattan, NYC.  (Before you lecture me, yes, I know the United Nations building sits on "international" land...)

Most New Englanders will tell you that Fairfield County, CT is not apart of New England. Downstate NY can have them!

Living in Fairfield County, I utmostly agree. You definitely notice the culture shift when you cross the Housatonic (specifically, north of the Shelton area). I must admit though, despite having lived here all my life, I feel more like a New Englander at heart, and less a New Yorker. (I have had the sad distinction of being the only Pats/Red Sox fan in my school for at least 5 years straight...God, I still hate the ending of Super Bowl XLII!)

We will get revenge on the giants someday!

[jwolfer]

If the residents of an area are NYC oriented, it's Downstate; if they aren't, it's Upstate.  That is what is different about their day-to-day life.  That is the only thing that differentiates Upstaters from Downstaters.

Are there any signs of being NYC-oriented we haven't touched upon yet?

If we are operating on the notion that a NYC-oriented area is classified as Downstate, then by technicality Fairfield (and parts of New Haven) County, Connecticut,  as well as Bergen, Essex, Hudson, (parts of) Passaic, and Hudson Counties, New Jersey are Downstate New York! Hell, we could classify the whole world as being downstate as the UN is headquartered in Manhattan, NYC.  (Before you lecture me, yes, I know the United Nations building sits on "international" land...)

Most New Englanders will tell you that Fairfield County, CT is not apart of New England. Downstate NY can have them!

Living in Fairfield County, I utmostly agree. You definitely notice the culture shift when you cross the Housatonic (specifically, north of the Shelton area). I must admit though, despite having lived here all my life, I feel more like a New Englander at heart, and less a New Yorker. (I have had the sad distinction of being the only Pats/Red Sox fan in my school for at least 5 years straight...God, I still hate the ending of Super Bowl XLII!)

I once had a landlord from Connecticut who was a Yankees/Pats fan. I forgot where in the state he was from.

On the topic of "what is New England?" I dated a girl from eastern Long Island who tired to convince me that the eastern end of Long Island was New England in culture.

Historically eastern Long Island was settled by people coming from Connecticut and Rhode Island. Western LI was Dutch.

But since the suburban growth on LI and remnants of " New England" are very hard to discern

Same with south Florida or Washington DC suburbs being "Southern"

LGMS428

[Roadgeekteen]

If the residents of an area are NYC oriented, it's Downstate; if they aren't, it's Upstate.  That is what is different about their day-to-day life.  That is the only thing that differentiates Upstaters from Downstaters.

Are there any signs of being NYC-oriented we haven't touched upon yet?

If we are operating on the notion that a NYC-oriented area is classified as Downstate, then by technicality Fairfield (and parts of New Haven) County, Connecticut,  as well as Bergen, Essex, Hudson, (parts of) Passaic, and Hudson Counties, New Jersey are Downstate New York! Hell, we could classify the whole world as being downstate as the UN is headquartered in Manhattan, NYC.  (Before you lecture me, yes, I know the United Nations building sits on "international" land...)

Most New Englanders will tell you that Fairfield County, CT is not apart of New England. Downstate NY can have them!

Living in Fairfield County, I utmostly agree. You definitely notice the culture shift when you cross the Housatonic (specifically, north of the Shelton area). I must admit though, despite having lived here all my life, I feel more like a New Englander at heart, and less a New Yorker. (I have had the sad distinction of being the only Pats/Red Sox fan in my school for at least 5 years straight...God, I still hate the ending of Super Bowl XLII!)

I once had a landlord from Connecticut who was a Yankees/Pats fan. I forgot where in the state he was from.

On the topic of "what is New England?" I dated a girl from eastern Long Island who tired to convince me that the eastern end of Long Island was New England in culture.

Historically eastern Long Island was settled by people coming from Connecticut and Rhode Island. Western LI was Dutch.

But since the suburban growth on LI and remnants of " New England" are very hard to discern

Same with south Florida or Washington DC suburbs being "Southern"

LGMS428

South florida is southren, dc is not.

[The Nature Boy]

If the residents of an area are NYC oriented, it's Downstate; if they aren't, it's Upstate.  That is what is different about their day-to-day life.  That is the only thing that differentiates Upstaters from Downstaters.

Are there any signs of being NYC-oriented we haven't touched upon yet?

If we are operating on the notion that a NYC-oriented area is classified as Downstate, then by technicality Fairfield (and parts of New Haven) County, Connecticut,  as well as Bergen, Essex, Hudson, (parts of) Passaic, and Hudson Counties, New Jersey are Downstate New York! Hell, we could classify the whole world as being downstate as the UN is headquartered in Manhattan, NYC.  (Before you lecture me, yes, I know the United Nations building sits on "international" land...)

Most New Englanders will tell you that Fairfield County, CT is not apart of New England. Downstate NY can have them!

Living in Fairfield County, I utmostly agree. You definitely notice the culture shift when you cross the Housatonic (specifically, north of the Shelton area). I must admit though, despite having lived here all my life, I feel more like a New Englander at heart, and less a New Yorker. (I have had the sad distinction of being the only Pats/Red Sox fan in my school for at least 5 years straight...God, I still hate the ending of Super Bowl XLII!)

I once had a landlord from Connecticut who was a Yankees/Pats fan. I forgot where in the state he was from.

On the topic of "what is New England?" I dated a girl from eastern Long Island who tired to convince me that the eastern end of Long Island was New England in culture.

Historically eastern Long Island was settled by people coming from Connecticut and Rhode Island. Western LI was Dutch.

But since the suburban growth on LI and remnants of " New England" are very hard to discern

Same with south Florida or Washington DC suburbs being "Southern"

LGMS428

South florida is southren, dc is not.

Depending on who you ask, South Florida is either the 6th borough of New York City or 7th New England state.

As an aside, Southeast Florida largely wasn't settled until the 20th century and wasn't settled in large numbers until post-WWII. I'm not sure that South Florida was ever actually culturally "Southern" in the way that the rest of the state was.

Northern Virginia HAS a very distinct Southern heritage. DC's suburban growth has pretty much eradicated local Southern culture though. In my experience in NoVa, finding someone with deep Virginian roots is incredibly rare. Interestingly enough, the current US Senator from Maine, Angus King, IS from an old Virginia family and was raised in Alexandria.

[jwolfer]

If the residents of an area are NYC oriented, it's Downstate; if they aren't, it's Upstate.  That is what is different about their day-to-day life.  That is the only thing that differentiates Upstaters from Downstaters.

Are there any signs of being NYC-oriented we haven't touched upon yet?

If we are operating on the notion that a NYC-oriented area is classified as Downstate, then by technicality Fairfield (and parts of New Haven) County, Connecticut,  as well as Bergen, Essex, Hudson, (parts of) Passaic, and Hudson Counties, New Jersey are Downstate New York! Hell, we could classify the whole world as being downstate as the UN is headquartered in Manhattan, NYC.  (Before you lecture me, yes, I know the United Nations building sits on "international" land...)

Most New Englanders will tell you that Fairfield County, CT is not apart of New England. Downstate NY can have them!

Living in Fairfield County, I utmostly agree. You definitely notice the culture shift when you cross the Housatonic (specifically, north of the Shelton area). I must admit though, despite having lived here all my life, I feel more like a New Englander at heart, and less a New Yorker. (I have had the sad distinction of being the only Pats/Red Sox fan in my school for at least 5 years straight...God, I still hate the ending of Super Bowl XLII!)

I once had a landlord from Connecticut who was a Yankees/Pats fan. I forgot where in the state he was from.

On the topic of "what is New England?" I dated a girl from eastern Long Island who tired to convince me that the eastern end of Long Island was New England in culture.

Historically eastern Long Island was settled by people coming from Connecticut and Rhode Island. Western LI was Dutch.

But since the suburban growth on LI and remnants of " New England" are very hard to discern

Same with south Florida or Washington DC suburbs being "Southern"

LGMS428

South florida is southren, dc is not.

Depending on who you ask, South Florida is either the 6th borough of New York City or 7th New England state.

As an aside, Southeast Florida largely wasn't settled until the 20th century and wasn't settled in large numbers until post-WWII. I'm not sure that South Florida was ever actually culturally "Southern" in the way that the rest of the state was.

Northern Virginia HAS a very distinct Southern heritage. DC's suburban growth has pretty much eradicated local Southern culture though. In my experience in NoVa, finding someone with deep Virginian roots is incredibly rare. Interestingly enough, the current US Senator from Maine, Angus King, IS from an old Virginia family and was raised in Alexandria.

Exactly Robert E Lee's home was Arlington, he commanded the Army of Northern Virginia.. Even Maryland was culturally Southern.

Miami was founded in 1896. Its all new.  In the 1930s and 40s it was more of a "Southern" city away from the beach. Just proportionally a lot more recent transplants from other Southern states not native Floridians.

Orlando was Deep South until the 1960s/70s.  Jacksonville still is Southern for the most part.

LGMS428

[Rothman]

I always thought that the Taconics were the gateway to the Berkshires. Past the TSP and it seems like you're in MA.

Nah.  Places like Petersburg and Austerlitz still feel like NY rather than MA.  Somehow, MA does old and quaint well, whereas NY does old and...how-on-Earth-does-that-place-stay-up?

[empirestate]

On the topic of "what is New England?" I dated a girl from eastern Long Island who tired to convince me that the eastern end of Long Island was New England in culture.

And I quite agree with her; it's another way in which areas of NYS tend to resemble its neighbors. (You'll also notice that both Rockland County and Staten Island resemble New Jersey, while the eastern parts of Westchester and Putnam look much like Connecticut.)

As for Long Island, its eastern settlements do indeed share much with New England, both having roots in the whaling and shipbuilding industries, for example. However, it's also been observed that while Long Island's north shore does recall Connecticut or Rhode Island across the sound, its southern shore also closely resembles the mid-Atlantic coast of Maryland or Delaware.

[Rothman]

What?  As someone who works with people from all around the state, Albany and Rockland are nothing alike.

If anything, the post shows the danger of misperceptions just from a quick road trip.

[empirestate]

I wasnt inferring they were alike. I didnt even go through albany. I was just commenting that the area had way more of a nyc "vibe" than i expected, as in, it felt more like the Catskills or Rockland than say old forge. Which I thought was surprising.

I can see that, in a way. One possible explanation is that Saratoga/Lake George was a playground for Albany just as the Catskill were for NYC, and both cities are about equally old. But another, perhaps more likely, possibility is that there are just a lot of people from the NYC area hanging around Lake George these days. :-)

[Rothman]

I still don't see how anything around Albany or Saratoga or Lake George could have a NYC vibe.  To me, there are striking differences, which is quite evident as Upstaters stick out like sore thumbs in the City.

Of course, some upstate hipsters would love to be mistaken for City people...

...but they usually aren't.

[vdeane]

I can see where some of these thoughts come from.  Like the Rockland/Orange/Catskills area, there is a continuous urbanized area all the way from Albany though Lake George (following the Northway, it ends there, but following NY 9N, it continues to Bolton Landing).  Plus many people from NYC vacation there.  And the Northway doesn't really become scenic until north of there.  Lake George itself is a resort town through and through.

And, of course, no Wegmans for over a hundred miles (actually, this will soon be something that differentiates Albany from the lower Hudson Valley!).

I wouldn't call the Capital District downstate, but it is definitely more different from Rochester/Buffalo/Syracuse than those cities are from each other.