Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[vdeane]

From my email with NYSDOT on this:

Would it not be more logical to change I-81, BL 81, and NY 481 next year when the projects to improve I-481 finish, and also to coordinate with Regions 7 and 9, and to do I-690/NY 690 in 2026 when that project finishes, than to change them all now?

 

Coordinating three different regions and 10 different construction projects would be very difficult and a logistical challenge. Please note, the I-81 Viaduct project is responsible for changing over exit numbers within the footprint of the project to the new mile-based number system. It will be a 5 year process to change over all the exits.  NY 481 is not impacted by the I-81 project and is not associated with I-481, there would be no benefit to delaying the changeover on NY 481.

It seems to me like they might have over-thought this.  I don't know of any individual road that is affected by 10 contracts; maybe BL 81, but that won't be switching outside of the contracts, so not really a factor for this.  I-81 itself is only affected by two, both of which finish sometime next year.  Would it really have been so hard to do the I-81 (and NY 481) numbers next summer and let Regions 7 and 9 know so they could change then too and leave I-690 to be closer to when the contracts affecting it will happen?

[Jim]

My comment was in motivated by vdeane's comment "Now if only Regions 7 and 9 would switch their bits".  For a state that was apparently so concerned that its drivers would be baffled by mileage-based numbering, it's surprising that they think having a mixture for so long is not confusing.

Maybe all the states that switched spread it out over years, I wasn't living in any of those when it happened.  But I was a frequent enough traveler through places like Pennsylvania and Florida when they did the swaps and for those it felt like the whole state was done pretty quickly.

[vdeane]

For a state that was apparently so concerned that its drivers would be baffled by mileage-based numbering, it's surprising that they think having a mixture for so long is not confusing.

And is also noteworthy because there are duplicate numbers on I-81.  "Head north and get off at exit 52" can now mean multiple things.

I find it's an especially big contrast with neighboring Vermont, which apparently is delaying conversion until every single sign in the entire state is ready to switch, even though some roads (US 4 and US 7) have had full sign rehabs in between the installation of the "milepoint exit" signs and now, and VT 289 is already mile-based.

[webny99]

My biggest concern with the lack of coordination between regions is that it doesn't bode well for public reception of the conversion, nor for future conversion projects on other routes (especially I-86/NY 17).

I didn't even know NYSDOT regions existed until after I joined this forum, so trying to explain why the DOT can't coordinate the switch all at once isn't going to make any sense to the public... especially when other states have already proved it can be done. 

[Rothman]

For a state that was apparently so concerned that its drivers would be baffled by mileage-based numbering, it's surprising that they think having a mixture for so long is not confusing.

And is also noteworthy because there are duplicate numbers on I-81.  "Head north and get off at exit 52" can now mean multiple things.

I find it's an especially big contrast with neighboring Vermont, which apparently is delaying conversion until every single sign in the entire state is ready to switch, even though some roads (US 4 and US 7) have had full sign rehabs in between the installation of the "milepoint exit" signs and now, and VT 289 is already mile-based.

$10 says VT's hoping FHWA forgets the whole thing.

[froggie]

For a state that was apparently so concerned that its drivers would be baffled by mileage-based numbering, it's surprising that they think having a mixture for so long is not confusing.

And is also noteworthy because there are duplicate numbers on I-81.  "Head north and get off at exit 52" can now mean multiple things.

I find it's an especially big contrast with neighboring Vermont, which apparently is delaying conversion until every single sign in the entire state is ready to switch, even though some roads (US 4 and US 7) have had full sign rehabs in between the installation of the "milepoint exit" signs and now, and VT 289 is already mile-based.

$10 says VT's hoping FHWA forgets the whole thing.

My feeling is that Vermont has resigned itself to this inevitability (pun intended).  Now, had you said NH instead of VT, I think you would be very correct.

[vdeane]

My feeling is that Vermont has resigned itself to this inevitability (pun intended).  Now, had you said NH instead of VT, I think you would be very correct.

I'm still not sure they really need to wait on every single sign in the entire state.

[Ted$8roadFan]

My comment was in motivated by vdeane's comment "Now if only Regions 7 and 9 would switch their bits".  For a state that was apparently so concerned that its drivers would be baffled by mileage-based numbering, it's surprising that they think having a mixture for so long is not confusing.

Maybe all the states that switched spread it out over years, I wasn't living in any of those when it happened.  But I was a frequent enough traveler through places like Pennsylvania and Florida when they did the swaps and for those it felt like the whole state was done pretty quickly.

Yes, Pennsylvania and Florida changed their numbers over relatively quickly, much unlike Connecticut and New York.

[roadman65]

My comment was in motivated by vdeane's comment "Now if only Regions 7 and 9 would switch their bits".  For a state that was apparently so concerned that its drivers would be baffled by mileage-based numbering, it's surprising that they think having a mixture for so long is not confusing.

Maybe all the states that switched spread it out over years, I wasn't living in any of those when it happened.  But I was a frequent enough traveler through places like Pennsylvania and Florida when they did the swaps and for those it felt like the whole state was done pretty quickly.

Yes, Pennsylvania and Florida changed their numbers over relatively quickly, much unlike Connecticut and New York.

Georgia too.

They all made it urgent matter for safety to make it a special project. Florida and PA brought up how milepost exiting helps first responders in coming to aid a motorist and the fact other states have had them implemented for some time already.

[roadman65]

https://www.syracuse.com/state/2024/07/dont-get-lost-nys-dot-begins-changing-exit-numbers-on-central-ny-highways.html
Here's an article about the change in exit numbers in the Syracuse area that has been hypothesized here.  It shows Exit 13 is now Exit 62 in the cover photograph.

I would figure they would wait until 481 actually becomes 81 to start.

[vdeane]

https://www.syracuse.com/state/2024/07/dont-get-lost-nys-dot-begins-changing-exit-numbers-on-central-ny-highways.html
Here's an article about the change in exit numbers in the Syracuse area that has been hypothesized here.  It shows Exit 13 is now Exit 62 in the cover photograph.

I would figure they would wait until 481 actually becomes 81 to start.

I would have thought so as well, but they had some line about how coordinating with 10 contracts and two other regions was too much to worry about.  I guess they forgot that only two contracts are relevant to I-81 and that those both finish around the same time next year.

(personal opinion)

[vdeane]

I've put my pictures of the new exit numbers north of Syracuse up on my website.

https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i81&state=NY

[Rothman]

I've put my pictures of the new exit numbers north of Syracuse up on my website.

https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i81&state=NY

I'm half-wondering if I should contact someone to snag the button copy Exit 2 gore sign when it's replaced.

[machias]

I've put my pictures of the new exit numbers north of Syracuse up on my website.

https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i81&state=NY

I was surprised they completely replaced exit tabs instead of just putting an overlay in place. The new style exit tabs are wide enough to accommodate the move from two digits to three digits, especially if they used Series D for the new numbers.

[abqtraveler]

I've put my pictures of the new exit numbers north of Syracuse up on my website.

https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i81&state=NY

I was surprised they completely replaced exit tabs instead of just putting an overlay in place. The new style exit tabs are wide enough to accommodate the move from two digits to three digits, especially if they used Series D for the new numbers.

What I find interesting is that New York doesn't put their exit tabs flush with the right edge of the sign, like nearly every other state does. Anyone know the reason for that?

[vdeane]

I've put my pictures of the new exit numbers north of Syracuse up on my website.

https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i81&state=NY

I was surprised they completely replaced exit tabs instead of just putting an overlay in place. The new style exit tabs are wide enough to accommodate the move from two digits to three digits, especially if they used Series D for the new numbers.

What I find interesting is that New York doesn't put their exit tabs flush with the right edge of the sign, like nearly every other state does. Anyone know the reason for that?

The right edge of the tab corresponds with the left edge of the rounded corner.  This ensures that there isn't a gap.

[cockroachking]

I've put my pictures of the new exit numbers north of Syracuse up on my website.

https://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=i81&state=NY

I was surprised they completely replaced exit tabs instead of just putting an overlay in place. The new style exit tabs are wide enough to accommodate the move from two digits to three digits, especially if they used Series D for the new numbers.

What I find interesting is that New York doesn't put their exit tabs flush with the right edge of the sign, like nearly every other state does. Anyone know the reason for that?

The right edge of the tab corresponds with the left edge of the rounded corner.  This ensures that there isn't a gap.

Exactly. This looks good. This looks stupid.

[Plutonic Panda]

Article about this construction project:

https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/work-continues-on-largest-project-in-nysdot-history/66608

[roadman65]

Article about this construction project:

https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/work-continues-on-largest-project-in-nysdot-history/66608

I like the way they put " Right the wrong" reverting the fact those in state government in the fifties were mean ( and they most likely were) as eminent domain did force many into losing property over time. However, tearing down the viaduct almost eighty years later is not going to give those who lived and lost then, their property back.

I'm not saying that rerouting I-81 out of the city is bad, but I'm saying even after you reconnect the neighborhood it won't be the same. Not to mention you will have the cars that were once on I-81 now on your streets creating more safety issues. At least before you could walk safely under the freeway. Now you have to cross at grade on the highway to get across.

[The Ghostbuster]

The Syracuse that existed before the Interstate 81 viaduct is gone, and removing the viaduct will not bring that Syracuse back. Cities evolve over time, and it will be up to the people of Syracuse to chart the course for its future, with or without the Interstate 81 viaduct.

[roadman65]

The Syracuse that existed before the Interstate 81 viaduct is gone, and removing the viaduct will not bring that Syracuse back. Cities evolve over time, and it will be up to the people of Syracuse to chart the course for its future, with or without the Interstate 81 viaduct.

You're right. The people of that error are mostly gone or living in convalescent homes.  Removing a viaduct isn't going to bring old nostalgia to life.

That is why this cancel culture nonsense is all hype for nothing. If you want to create unity, redevelop existing communities with amenities that promote togetherness.

[Rothman]

The Syracuse that existed before the Interstate 81 viaduct is gone, and removing the viaduct will not bring that Syracuse back. Cities evolve over time, and it will be up to the people of Syracuse to chart the course for its future, with or without the Interstate 81 viaduct.

You're right. The people of that error are mostly gone or living in convalescent homes.  Removing a viaduct isn't going to bring old nostalgia to life.

That is why this cancel culture nonsense is all hype for nothing. If you want to create unity, redevelop existing communities with amenities that promote togetherness.

So...tear the viaduct down.

[silverback1065]

I argue it never should have been built in the first place.

[kalvado]

I argue it never should have been built in the first place.

There was a reference somewhere way up in the thread that an alternative routing was through Utica. Utica is now a much smaller town, despite huge state efforts. It's an interesting question what would Syracuse be without I-81 today. I suspect much less of a city than it is.

[silverback1065]

I argue it never should have been built in the first place.

There was a reference somewhere way up in the thread that an alternative routing was through Utica. Utica is now a much smaller town, despite huge state efforts. It's an interesting question what would Syracuse be without I-81 today. I suspect much less of a city than it is.

Let me clarify my opinion, what I mean is, 81 should never have gone through the city proper. It should have bypassed it on an alignment similar to 481 instead. Syracuse, as most of upstate NY cities doesn't seem large enough to warrant downtown freeways. Just seems like overkill imo.