Tennessee Choice Lanes

[The Ghostbuster]

I could imagine two toll lanes could theoretically be needed in Nashville and possibly Memphis, but other cities such as Chattanooga and Knoxville likely wouldn't need two toll lanes.

[webny99]

One guy going 65 mph in a rural 70 mph zone, a single toll lane, with no room to pass for 15-20 miles. Many cars stacking up behind. Great idea!

to be fair, i can only hope tennessee watched other states learn harsh lessons and have the choice lanes be mandated to have 2 lanes minimum each way, or at least have people pulled over for going less than the speed limit.

The bigger issue is that HOV/HOT lanes aren't a great fit for rural areas in general. Those areas are busiest on weekends and during summer travel season, when relatively few people on the road are traveling by themselves, and aren't reliably congested enough to be worth paying a toll to use.

[Avalanchez71]

This is a horrible idea, and I was not for this at all.  The climate changed slightly at the capitol once certain folks were ousted for raising the gasoline taxes.  This was a compromise to not raise the taxes, and a horrible one at that.  It will be pretty neat when someone uses the lanes, travels the speed limit and someone behind them gets raged out.

[civilengineeringnerd]

One guy going 65 mph in a rural 70 mph zone, a single toll lane, with no room to pass for 15-20 miles. Many cars stacking up behind. Great idea!

to be fair, i can only hope tennessee watched other states learn harsh lessons and have the choice lanes be mandated to have 2 lanes minimum each way, or at least have people pulled over for going less than the speed limit.

They haven't... the urban toll lanes will only be single lane and make use of the existing HOV, I believe.

i refuse to understand tennessees government.
for one, this should've been done once other states did it with the concrete barriers. theres a critical need for widening I-40 from memphis to nashville to at least 3x3 configuration, but the only way anyone is gonna see the light of day on that is if theres suddenly a bad enough wreck on the interstate that shuts the interstate down in both directions.
and the amount of truck traffic that goes on that interstate it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that ends up happening and TDOT suddenly decides its best to widen the entire roadway to 3x3 or even have HOT lanes for a 2x2x2x2 configuration, assuming TDOT officials are given a "blank check" for getting the corridor safer.

[civilengineeringnerd]

One guy going 65 mph in a rural 70 mph zone, a single toll lane, with no room to pass for 15-20 miles. Many cars stacking up behind. Great idea!

to be fair, i can only hope tennessee watched other states learn harsh lessons and have the choice lanes be mandated to have 2 lanes minimum each way, or at least have people pulled over for going less than the speed limit.

The bigger issue is that HOV/HOT lanes aren't a great fit for rural areas in general. Those areas are busiest on weekends and during summer travel season, when relatively few people on the road are traveling by themselves, and aren't reliably congested enough to be worth paying a toll to use.

i disagree, for 1: there is more than enough truck traffic to offset the lack of passenger traffic on the roadway. and 2: the passenger traffic that does go on the roadway, its mainly travel traffic from either out of state or moving within the state.
there should be at least a 4x4 configuration, with the 2 right lanes being truck lanes, and the 2 left lanes for general purpose.

[civilengineeringnerd]

This is a horrible idea, and I was not for this at all.  The climate changed slightly at the capitol once certain folks were ousted for raising the gasoline taxes.  This was a compromise to not raise the taxes, and a horrible one at that.  It will be pretty neat when someone uses the lanes, travels the speed limit and someone behind them gets raged out.

to be fair, i was one of the people on board with raising the gas taxes. we need to get caught up and west tennessee was getting neglected bad thanks to nashvegas and its substantial growth over the prior 10 years.
if it meant that west tennessee projects got the green light for expansion or completion, which btw it did, i was completely on board with it.
the problem is, is the majority of the population didn't think so. for some reason they thought it was completely possible to build a interstate road or expand a freeway or highway for far under what it was gonna be priced at and the tennessee legislature was being greedy.
even tho, the state was honest with the gas tax raises, made a entirely new website for it, including a literal project page tracker, and even made compromises for truckers, and urbanists, it still wasn't enough to sway the population.
choice lanes were the compromise, which btw, will most likely never get off the ground because the same people who proposed and passed the laws are gonna be ousted again. 
its like the people expect the state to force construction companies to pay well below market rate for projects.

[webny99]

One guy going 65 mph in a rural 70 mph zone, a single toll lane, with no room to pass for 15-20 miles. Many cars stacking up behind. Great idea!

to be fair, i can only hope tennessee watched other states learn harsh lessons and have the choice lanes be mandated to have 2 lanes minimum each way, or at least have people pulled over for going less than the speed limit.

The bigger issue is that HOV/HOT lanes aren't a great fit for rural areas in general. Those areas are busiest on weekends and during summer travel season, when relatively few people on the road are traveling by themselves, and aren't reliably congested enough to be worth paying a toll to use.

i disagree, for 1: there is more than enough truck traffic to offset the lack of passenger traffic on the roadway. and 2: the passenger traffic that does go on the roadway, its mainly travel traffic from either out of state or moving within the state.
there should be at least a 4x4 configuration, with the 2 right lanes being truck lanes, and the 2 left lanes for general purpose.

Yeah, my point is that most of those traveling from out of state or long distance within the state, are not traveling alone so they couldn't use the HOT lane. I would support a widening, but 2 general purpose + 1 HOV/HOT is barely an upgrade as it does not allow two cars to pass at once in sync. Just a regular widening to 6-lanes would be sufficient, as it is almost anywhere else in the country (aside from the NJTP which is in its own class).

[civilengineeringnerd]

One guy going 65 mph in a rural 70 mph zone, a single toll lane, with no room to pass for 15-20 miles. Many cars stacking up behind. Great idea!

to be fair, i can only hope tennessee watched other states learn harsh lessons and have the choice lanes be mandated to have 2 lanes minimum each way, or at least have people pulled over for going less than the speed limit.

The bigger issue is that HOV/HOT lanes aren't a great fit for rural areas in general. Those areas are busiest on weekends and during summer travel season, when relatively few people on the road are traveling by themselves, and aren't reliably congested enough to be worth paying a toll to use.

i disagree, for 1: there is more than enough truck traffic to offset the lack of passenger traffic on the roadway. and 2: the passenger traffic that does go on the roadway, its mainly travel traffic from either out of state or moving within the state.
there should be at least a 4x4 configuration, with the 2 right lanes being truck lanes, and the 2 left lanes for general purpose.

Yeah, my point is that most of those traveling from out of state or long distance within the state, are not traveling alone so they couldn't use the HOT lane. I would support a widening, but 2 general purpose + 1 HOV/HOT is barely an upgrade as it does not allow two cars to pass at once in sync. Just a regular widening to 6-lanes would be sufficient, as it is almost anywhere else in the country (aside from the NJTP which is in its own class).

if not that, then do like what oklahoma does, and toll the entire length of I-40 from memphis to the Tennessee/NC state line.
people would get ousted, but the roads would get done.

[The Ghostbuster]

Given that Tennessee that hasn't had any toll roads, these "choice" lanes are likely to be a hard sell, just like in other historically non-toll states. I still think they should be built, and in time, the public may come to accept them. That has happened when toll lanes have been introduced elsewhere.

[civilengineeringnerd]

Given that Tennessee that hasn't had any toll roads, these "choice" lanes are likely to be a hard sell, just like in other historically non-toll states. I still think they should be built, and in time, the public may come to accept them. That has happened when toll lanes have been introduced elsewhere.

in the past, it wasn't near as polarized politically as it is today. calling toll roads/toll lanes a "hard sell" is downplaying the situation a bit. yea in florida you have toll lanes and in texas you have toll roads and toll lanes, both are right leaning, but with the current political structure of the GOP today, and given that tennessee is pretty hard to the more traditional GOP as apposed to the current GOP, it is more likely you won't find toll lanes here anytime soon, let alone a toll road. people around here will just clog up U.S. 70 and U.S. 412 to get to places or through the state. however there is some hope for toll lanes/toll roads in the state. people in my state are changing minds, its a slow progress, but they are waking up to the harsh reality that we need actual solutions, and they come from toll roads and toll lanes.

[ElishaGOtis]

CONFIRMED: I-24 Nashville Choice Lanes to be 2-lanes in each direction.    

More from today's meeting. Skip to 28:41 or https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C0mnVm-4vHY&t=1721s

[wriddle082]

^ So the existing lanes will remain free for all.  I wonder if that means the existing part time HOV lanes will become permanent general purpose lanes, with HOV-3 permitted to use the Choice Lanes for free.  That's sort of what happened in Charlotte where the I-77 HOV lanes were eliminated, but were converted to HOT along with an additional lane added.  I-24 has a far left HOV lane through most of this corridor from about mm 57 to about mm 80.

[ElishaGOtis]

^ So the existing lanes will remain free for all.  I wonder if that means the existing part time HOV lanes will become permanent general purpose lanes, with HOV-3 permitted to use the Choice Lanes for free.  That's sort of what happened in Charlotte where the I-77 HOV lanes were eliminated, but were converted to HOT along with an additional lane added.  I-24 has a far left HOV lane through most of this corridor from about mm 57 to about mm 80.

IMHO, if they do end up being HOT lanes, I really do hope that E-ZPass will be accepted as the primary transponder. Having the Flex option would really make travel more convenient for not only these lanes, but also for the other HOT lanes using E-ZPass Flex.

On a similar note, the meeting mentioned priority-use of the SMART corridor during construction, so I have a feeling they could be using that as a test case for future installments. Overhead and dynamic signage could be key to ensuring proper lane use during construction and during operations, not to mention the flexibility. Not working as an express lane or major incident? *Click* It's now open to all. Too crowded as an express lane & can't raise tolls any more? *Click* It's now HOV 2+ Only. Most express lanes I've seen are also equipped to do something similar, but not to this scale.

[sprjus4]

I like the look of this... keep the existing 8 general purpose lanes and add 2 HO/T or toll lanes each way, creating a total of 6 lanes in each direction.

Far better than the tacky, cheap single express lane solution some areas have done where you take a gamble to get stuck behind a slow driver to several miles with no passing ability.

Also like that they're not taking away an existing HOV lane either - one that could be converted to general purpose and actually promote better traffic flow.

Back here in Hampton Roads / Chesapeake / Va Beach, they recently converted a segment that was 8 lanes (4 each way, the left lane being HOV restricted either during 7-9am or 4-6pm depending on direction) to essentially 6 general purpose lanes and a full time HO/T lane. Rush hour traffic in the general purpose lanes has seemingly gotten heavier, especially in the direction that the HOV lane was open to all traffic previously - now the HO/T gets minimal usage in what my opinion is a failed / flawed project in a desperate attempt to create this unnecessary HO/T / express lane network by cheaply adding a single, no passing allowed (where people seem to be unable to ever maintain the 65 mph speed limit) toll lane. The conversion has actually worsened traffic, on a segment of interstate that virtually had none before. So props to Tennessee for wanting to construct new lanes for the toll lanes and not convert existing free HOV lanes that are most of the time not occupancy restricted.

[wriddle082]

^ At least along the Smyrna to Murfreesboro portion of the corridor, from just past TN 266 to just past I-840, they have lots of median room to build four more lanes.  It will be trickier the closer you get to Nashville, the trickier it gets, but it's not going to be impossible.  The trickiest area will probably be ending the lanes at I-440 or Briley Pkwy.

[ElishaGOtis]

^ At least along the Smyrna to Murfreesboro portion of the corridor, from just past TN 266 to just past I-840, they have lots of median room to build four more lanes.  It will be trickier the closer you get to Nashville, the trickier it gets, but it's not going to be impossible.  The trickiest area will probably be ending the lanes at I-440 or Briley Pkwy.

I'm curious if portions of the corridor could be elevated, like the 110 express in LA. Below grade like I-635 Dallas? I'm slightly biased against going in that direction, given what happened in 2010 in Nashville...

[Plutonic Panda]

Great news the lanes will be two each way.

[freebrickproductions]

^ At least along the Smyrna to Murfreesboro portion of the corridor, from just past TN 266 to just past I-840, they have lots of median room to build four more lanes.  It will be trickier the closer you get to Nashville, the trickier it gets, but it's not going to be impossible.  The trickiest area will probably be ending the lanes at I-440 or Briley Pkwy.

I'm curious if portions of the corridor could be elevated, like the 110 express in LA. Below grade like I-635 Dallas? I'm slightly biased against going in that direction, given what happened in 2010 in Nashville...

On the other hand, below-grade choice lanes may potentially give somewhere for the floodwater to go rather than ponding on the I-24's mainline, so...

My guess would be, if they aren't at-grade with the rest of I-24, they'll be put above-grade like the express lanes on I-75 around Atlanta.

[Finrod]

^ At least along the Smyrna to Murfreesboro portion of the corridor, from just past TN 266 to just past I-840, they have lots of median room to build four more lanes.  It will be trickier the closer you get to Nashville, the trickier it gets, but it's not going to be impossible.  The trickiest area will probably be ending the lanes at I-440 or Briley Pkwy.

I'm curious if portions of the corridor could be elevated, like the 110 express in LA. Below grade like I-635 Dallas? I'm slightly biased against going in that direction, given what happened in 2010 in Nashville...

On the other hand, below-grade choice lanes may potentially give somewhere for the floodwater to go rather than ponding on the I-24's mainline, so...

My guess would be, if they aren't at-grade with the rest of I-24, they'll be put above-grade like the express lanes on I-75 around Atlanta.

Welcome to Tollercoaster II.

[Plutonic Panda]

Update on this: https://www.wkrn.com/news/tennessee-news/tn-choice-lanes-to-have-minimum-speed-limits-traffic-based-pricing/

[I-39]

TDOT is also planning choice lanes for I-65 from Nashville to Spring Hill

I'm guessing that would involve widening it between I-840 and TN 396.

Which is badly needed, but they didn't leave enough room for eight lanes under the new June Lake interchange, only six. I hope the new lanes in that segment wouldn't be toll lanes.

[ElishaGOtis]

TL;DR New info from public meeting, right now there are plans for:
- 2 CL's each direction, except for the last segment towards the east end on I-24 (1 CL each direction)
- Direct connection ramps with I-40 and 440, and possibly with 155
- Buffer separated with express lane markers when using median
- HOV lanes maintained IN ADDITION to the new express lanes, so these will not be HO/T like originally speculated
- Portions to be elevated off to the side like I-35E Dallas, and other portions to use center of road buffer-separated like I-77 Charlotte
- Toll pass and Speed Limits (including SMART corridor integration) not yet determined
- Consistent split between direct express exits and slip ramps from GP
- To be constructed in phases
- Possible BRT integration

Nothing here is final nor official, but this was my general understanding.

[sprjus4]

TL;DR New info from public meeting, right now there are plans for:
- 2 CL's each direction, except for the last segment towards the east end on I-24 (1 CL each direction)
- Direct connection ramps with I-40 and 440, and possibly with 155
- Buffer separated with express lane markers when using median
- HOV lanes maintained IN ADDITION to the new express lanes, so these will not be HO/T like originally speculated
- Portions to be elevated off to the side like I-35E Dallas, and other portions to use center of road buffer-separated like I-77 Charlotte
- Toll pass and Speed Limits (including SMART corridor integration) not yet determined
- Consistent split between direct express exits and slip ramps from GP
- To be constructed in phases
- Possible BRT integration

Nothing here is final nor official, but this was my general understanding.

Why don't they use a system like E-ZPass Flex, and allow HOV travel in the express lanes?

Then, turn the existing HOV into a general purpose lane and open it up to 4 GP each way, alongside the two express lanes. Seems like the best solution, IMO. The HOV is likely an underutilized lane anyway, combine it with the express lanes (the technology exists to do this - E-ZPass Flex), and allow it function as an additional GP lane.

[Plutonic Panda]

Yeah all of the proposal seems good except for maintaining the HOV lane. It should be converted to a gp lane and HOVs can use the toll lanes for free like they have in LA.

[I-39]

So would this be replicated along the I-65 corridor if successful?