NY 17/"I-86"

[Plutonic Panda]

Rest areas cost money that sucks money away from core infrastructure maintenance.

(personal opinion emphasized)

They sure do and they're every bit as important as core infrastructure as well.

[Rothman]

Rest areas cost money that sucks money away from core infrastructure maintenance.

(personal opinion emphasized)

They sure do and they're every bit as important as core infrastructure as well.

Nope.  The private sector doth provide on this one.

[Plutonic Panda]

Rest areas cost money that sucks money away from core infrastructure maintenance.

(personal opinion emphasized)

They sure do and they're every bit as important as core infrastructure as well.

Nope.  The private sector doth provide on this one.

Private sector also builds toll lanes too. So what.

[vdeane]

Hey. I looked on satellite of google maps, it appears that there used to be a rest area between exits 58 and 59 here: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0203218,-76.6498169,423m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I even confirmed it on historic aerial that it was once but it turns out that it was closed and torn out at some point. Does anyone recall when and why it got shut down and torn out? Thanks.

I feel like I remember something about it closing 15-20 years ago due to a failed septic system, but a quick Google search didn't reveal anything.

[Rothman]

Rest areas cost money that sucks money away from core infrastructure maintenance.

(personal opinion emphasized)

They sure do and they're every bit as important as core infrastructure as well.

Nope.  The private sector doth provide on this one.

Private sector also builds toll lanes too. So what.

Off the highway, silly man.  Remember that the mantra now is that full service plazas compete with local businesses and are unfairly subsidized by government and that trucks need to be using private parking at truck stops.

[Plutonic Panda]

Rest areas cost money that sucks money away from core infrastructure maintenance.

(personal opinion emphasized)

They sure do and they're every bit as important as core infrastructure as well.

Nope.  The private sector doth provide on this one.

Private sector also builds toll lanes too. So what.

Off the highway, silly man.  Remember that the mantra now is that full service plazas compete with local businesses and are unfairly subsidized by government and that trucks need to be using private parking at truck stops.

Maybe it's different up in the north east but driving out west I sure appreciate rest areas. Sometimes when I've been low on cash and I couldn't afford a hotel, they came in handy.

[seicer]

I'm not sure you've driven large rigs, Rothman. Truck parking at privately owned truck stops is a premium and generally pretty full at night. And, some now charge by the hour for the luxury of parking, which is not reimbursable from an employer or contractor perspective. If there wasn't such a demand for parking, you'd not see truck stops, rest areas, and ramps congested with trucks each night.

It's a safety issue: https://www.trucking.org/news-insights/national-truck-parking-shortage-growing-safety-concern-all-motorists

The DOT agrees: https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/infrastructure/truck_parking/index.htm

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/22/us/politics/truck-parking.html

https://www.wthr.com/article/money/business/truck-parking-shortage-how-it-impacts-all-of-us-indiana-spots-stops-rest-areas/531-1ab7dfb4-5d2e-4d65-984d-d1238f9efd27

[kalvado]

Hey. I looked on satellite of google maps, it appears that there used to be a rest area between exits 58 and 59 here: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0203218,-76.6498169,423m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I even confirmed it on historic aerial that it was once but it turns out that it was closed and torn out at some point. Does anyone recall when and why it got shut down and torn out? Thanks.

I feel like I remember something about it closing 15-20 years ago due to a failed septic system, but a quick Google search didn't reveal anything.

15-20 years ago would put it into Patterson cuts 2008 era. Rest areas were closed in mass, some reopened, some didn't.
One on "free I-90" where it diverges from Thruway, near exit 12 in Albany, is an example of one not coming back. There were some big signs along the lines of "gov. Cuomo rebuilds NY" - but that was too big of endeavor, I think it never opened.

[roadman65]

I remember when some rest areas along NY 17 were signed as Phone Comfort Stations in the mid to late seventies.

[Rothman]

I'm not sure you've driven large rigs, Rothman. Truck parking at privately owned truck stops is a premium and generally pretty full at night. And, some now charge by the hour for the luxury of parking, which is not reimbursable from an employer or contractor perspective. If there wasn't such a demand for parking, you'd not see truck stops, rest areas, and ramps congested with trucks each night.

It's a safety issue: https://www.trucking.org/news-insights/national-truck-parking-shortage-growing-safety-concern-all-motorists

The DOT agrees: https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/infrastructure/truck_parking/index.htm

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/22/us/politics/truck-parking.html

https://www.wthr.com/article/money/business/truck-parking-shortage-how-it-impacts-all-of-us-indiana-spots-stops-rest-areas/531-1ab7dfb4-5d2e-4d65-984d-d1238f9efd27

Oh, there's definitely a parking shortage for semis.  However, the dominant thinking at DOTs now is that it's the private sector's responsibility to provide more parking, with a few exceptions for existing facilities (e.g., the lots on the Thruway allowing for breaking up tandems and the like before loads are taken into the City).  Again, public investment is now seen as competition with private business in this regard.

Also, keep in mind what I said previously: No extra or itemized federal funding is available for rest areas.  So, having to choose between paving rehabilitation, bridge replacements and...rest areas, DOTs are in maintenance mode:  DOTs will keep a minimum amount of rest areas maintained and only expand when extra money is provided (e.g., Gov. Cuomo's welcome centers and I Love NY stops).

Rest area maintenance and expansion was a huge topic about 10-15 years ago.  DOTs screamed about the need, but no money was allocated by the Feds.  So, that was the root cause of the current lingering mentality.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[seicer]

I completely agree with your statement. It's unfortunate that many states have removed rest areas, which are proven safety measures that allow motorists to rest and refresh. For example, INDOT has eliminated a significant number of rest areas along Interstate 64 and 69 and has not invested in new ones along its newer corridor routes, such as Interstate 69 or US 31.

In contrast, ODOT has historically invested in rest areas, even on its secondary highways. Until about ten years ago, you could find them on these routes, often consisting of simple enclosed pit toilets with picnic tables. Many of these have been removed in favor of upgraded stations located only on busier corridor routes, which offer flush toilets. However, in recent years, ODOT has undertaken a comprehensive rebuild of its rest areas, transforming them into tourism information centers that are fully accessible to everyone. This initiative has proven to be a significant public relations success.

NYDOT has invested in its rest areas, too. I appreciate it's clean and spacious rest areas, but some of the ones developed under Cuomo just had too many frills that didn't seem to be fully utilized. Farmers markets and cafes? Taste of NY vending machines? They were almost like a service area but half-baked ideas.

[kalvado]

I'm not sure you've driven large rigs, Rothman. Truck parking at privately owned truck stops is a premium and generally pretty full at night. And, some now charge by the hour for the luxury of parking, which is not reimbursable from an employer or contractor perspective. If there wasn't such a demand for parking, you'd not see truck stops, rest areas, and ramps congested with trucks each night.

It's a safety issue: https://www.trucking.org/news-insights/national-truck-parking-shortage-growing-safety-concern-all-motorists

The DOT agrees: https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/infrastructure/truck_parking/index.htm

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/22/us/politics/truck-parking.html

https://www.wthr.com/article/money/business/truck-parking-shortage-how-it-impacts-all-of-us-indiana-spots-stops-rest-areas/531-1ab7dfb4-5d2e-4d65-984d-d1238f9efd27

Oh, there's definitely a parking shortage for semis.  However, the dominant thinking at DOTs now is that it's the private sector's responsibility to provide more parking, with a few exceptions for existing facilities (e.g., the lots on the Thruway allowing for breaking up tandems and the like before loads are taken into the City).  Again, public investment is now seen as competition with private business in this regard.

Also, keep in mind what I said previously: No extra or itemized federal funding is available for rest areas.  So, having to choose between paving rehabilitation, bridge replacements and...rest areas, DOTs are in maintenance mode:  DOTs will keep a minimum amount of rest areas maintained and only expand when extra money is provided (e.g., Gov. Cuomo's welcome centers and I Love NY stops).

Rest area maintenance and expansion was a huge topic about 10-15 years ago.  DOTs screamed about the need, but no money was allocated by the Feds.  So, that was the root cause of the current lingering mentality.

(personal opinion emphasized)

An interesting question is what to do if private sector is not doing the job. Like when I found myself on I-88, "nearest gas station is 35 miles that way, 28 miles other way (on a Thruway stop), or the one across the street opens at 6AM"...
Rest area is not solving that issue, but something tells me big rig parking would not be easy as well. And no parking is not an excuse for 15 minutes over the duty time limit for CDL...

[Rothman]

I'm not sure you've driven large rigs, Rothman. Truck parking at privately owned truck stops is a premium and generally pretty full at night. And, some now charge by the hour for the luxury of parking, which is not reimbursable from an employer or contractor perspective. If there wasn't such a demand for parking, you'd not see truck stops, rest areas, and ramps congested with trucks each night.

It's a safety issue: https://www.trucking.org/news-insights/national-truck-parking-shortage-growing-safety-concern-all-motorists

The DOT agrees: https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/infrastructure/truck_parking/index.htm

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/22/us/politics/truck-parking.html

https://www.wthr.com/article/money/business/truck-parking-shortage-how-it-impacts-all-of-us-indiana-spots-stops-rest-areas/531-1ab7dfb4-5d2e-4d65-984d-d1238f9efd27

Oh, there's definitely a parking shortage for semis.  However, the dominant thinking at DOTs now is that it's the private sector's responsibility to provide more parking, with a few exceptions for existing facilities (e.g., the lots on the Thruway allowing for breaking up tandems and the like before loads are taken into the City).  Again, public investment is now seen as competition with private business in this regard.

Also, keep in mind what I said previously: No extra or itemized federal funding is available for rest areas.  So, having to choose between paving rehabilitation, bridge replacements and...rest areas, DOTs are in maintenance mode:  DOTs will keep a minimum amount of rest areas maintained and only expand when extra money is provided (e.g., Gov. Cuomo's welcome centers and I Love NY stops).

Rest area maintenance and expansion was a huge topic about 10-15 years ago.  DOTs screamed about the need, but no money was allocated by the Feds.  So, that was the root cause of the current lingering mentality.

(personal opinion emphasized)

An interesting question is what to do if private sector is not doing the job. Like when I found myself on I-88, "nearest gas station is 35 miles that way, 28 miles other way (on a Thruway stop), or the one across the street opens at 6AM"...
Rest area is not solving that issue, but something tells me big rig parking would not be easy as well. And no parking is not an excuse for 15 minutes over the duty time limit for CDL...

So, trucking associations complain and put pressure on Feds and States to invest public funds...which they may or may not do...

[kalvado]

I'm not sure you've driven large rigs, Rothman. Truck parking at privately owned truck stops is a premium and generally pretty full at night. And, some now charge by the hour for the luxury of parking, which is not reimbursable from an employer or contractor perspective. If there wasn't such a demand for parking, you'd not see truck stops, rest areas, and ramps congested with trucks each night.

It's a safety issue: https://www.trucking.org/news-insights/national-truck-parking-shortage-growing-safety-concern-all-motorists

The DOT agrees: https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/infrastructure/truck_parking/index.htm

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/22/us/politics/truck-parking.html

https://www.wthr.com/article/money/business/truck-parking-shortage-how-it-impacts-all-of-us-indiana-spots-stops-rest-areas/531-1ab7dfb4-5d2e-4d65-984d-d1238f9efd27

Oh, there's definitely a parking shortage for semis.  However, the dominant thinking at DOTs now is that it's the private sector's responsibility to provide more parking, with a few exceptions for existing facilities (e.g., the lots on the Thruway allowing for breaking up tandems and the like before loads are taken into the City).  Again, public investment is now seen as competition with private business in this regard.

Also, keep in mind what I said previously: No extra or itemized federal funding is available for rest areas.  So, having to choose between paving rehabilitation, bridge replacements and...rest areas, DOTs are in maintenance mode:  DOTs will keep a minimum amount of rest areas maintained and only expand when extra money is provided (e.g., Gov. Cuomo's welcome centers and I Love NY stops).

Rest area maintenance and expansion was a huge topic about 10-15 years ago.  DOTs screamed about the need, but no money was allocated by the Feds.  So, that was the root cause of the current lingering mentality.

(personal opinion emphasized)

An interesting question is what to do if private sector is not doing the job. Like when I found myself on I-88, "nearest gas station is 35 miles that way, 28 miles other way (on a Thruway stop), or the one across the street opens at 6AM"...
Rest area is not solving that issue, but something tells me big rig parking would not be easy as well. And no parking is not an excuse for 15 minutes over the duty time limit for CDL...

So, trucking associations complain and put pressure on Feds and States to invest public funds...which they may or may not do...

On a philosophical level - parking areas seem to be hated (for good reasons or not) by locals who would have a bigger say in state DOT fund allocation than some association with members in other states.
Meanwhile, trucking is a backbone of goods flow - again, for better or worse. All that while trucking is seriously regulated, and rest intervals are mandated. 
Is it just me, or it can easily become catch-22 for truck drivers?   

[Rothman]

I'm not sure you've driven large rigs, Rothman. Truck parking at privately owned truck stops is a premium and generally pretty full at night. And, some now charge by the hour for the luxury of parking, which is not reimbursable from an employer or contractor perspective. If there wasn't such a demand for parking, you'd not see truck stops, rest areas, and ramps congested with trucks each night.

It's a safety issue: https://www.trucking.org/news-insights/national-truck-parking-shortage-growing-safety-concern-all-motorists

The DOT agrees: https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/infrastructure/truck_parking/index.htm

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/22/us/politics/truck-parking.html

https://www.wthr.com/article/money/business/truck-parking-shortage-how-it-impacts-all-of-us-indiana-spots-stops-rest-areas/531-1ab7dfb4-5d2e-4d65-984d-d1238f9efd27

Oh, there's definitely a parking shortage for semis.  However, the dominant thinking at DOTs now is that it's the private sector's responsibility to provide more parking, with a few exceptions for existing facilities (e.g., the lots on the Thruway allowing for breaking up tandems and the like before loads are taken into the City).  Again, public investment is now seen as competition with private business in this regard.

Also, keep in mind what I said previously: No extra or itemized federal funding is available for rest areas.  So, having to choose between paving rehabilitation, bridge replacements and...rest areas, DOTs are in maintenance mode:  DOTs will keep a minimum amount of rest areas maintained and only expand when extra money is provided (e.g., Gov. Cuomo's welcome centers and I Love NY stops).

Rest area maintenance and expansion was a huge topic about 10-15 years ago.  DOTs screamed about the need, but no money was allocated by the Feds.  So, that was the root cause of the current lingering mentality.

(personal opinion emphasized)

An interesting question is what to do if private sector is not doing the job. Like when I found myself on I-88, "nearest gas station is 35 miles that way, 28 miles other way (on a Thruway stop), or the one across the street opens at 6AM"...
Rest area is not solving that issue, but something tells me big rig parking would not be easy as well. And no parking is not an excuse for 15 minutes over the duty time limit for CDL...

So, trucking associations complain and put pressure on Feds and States to invest public funds...which they may or may not do...

On a philosophical level - parking areas seem to be hated (for good reasons or not) by locals who would have a bigger say in state DOT fund allocation than some association with members in other states.
Meanwhile, trucking is a backbone of goods flow - again, for better or worse. All that while trucking is seriously regulated, and rest intervals are mandated. 
Is it just me, or it can easily become catch-22 for truck drivers?   

Eh, for increasing parking in rest areas or whatnot, I would say local opposition is usually assuaged or otherwise overcome, with an emphasis on "usually" since a couple of exceptions come to mind of which I am hesitant to mention.

[vdeane]

Hey. I looked on satellite of google maps, it appears that there used to be a rest area between exits 58 and 59 here: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0203218,-76.6498169,423m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I even confirmed it on historic aerial that it was once but it turns out that it was closed and torn out at some point. Does anyone recall when and why it got shut down and torn out? Thanks.

I feel like I remember something about it closing 15-20 years ago due to a failed septic system, but a quick Google search didn't reveal anything.

15-20 years ago would put it into Patterson cuts 2008 era. Rest areas were closed in mass, some reopened, some didn't.
One on "free I-90" where it diverges from Thruway, near exit 12 in Albany, is an example of one not coming back. There were some big signs along the lines of "gov. Cuomo rebuilds NY" - but that was too big of endeavor, I think it never opened.

Two remain "temporarily closed" (Hastings and Lewis); two more "reopened" as parking areas with no rest area building (Schodack and NB Schroon).  IIRC the two that reopened on I-88 had money allocated as part of the state budget.  And SB Schroon is in a different sort of limbo.

(personal opinion)

[kalvado]

I'm not sure you've driven large rigs, Rothman. Truck parking at privately owned truck stops is a premium and generally pretty full at night. And, some now charge by the hour for the luxury of parking, which is not reimbursable from an employer or contractor perspective. If there wasn't such a demand for parking, you'd not see truck stops, rest areas, and ramps congested with trucks each night.

It's a safety issue: https://www.trucking.org/news-insights/national-truck-parking-shortage-growing-safety-concern-all-motorists

The DOT agrees: https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/Freight/infrastructure/truck_parking/index.htm

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/22/us/politics/truck-parking.html

https://www.wthr.com/article/money/business/truck-parking-shortage-how-it-impacts-all-of-us-indiana-spots-stops-rest-areas/531-1ab7dfb4-5d2e-4d65-984d-d1238f9efd27

Oh, there's definitely a parking shortage for semis.  However, the dominant thinking at DOTs now is that it's the private sector's responsibility to provide more parking, with a few exceptions for existing facilities (e.g., the lots on the Thruway allowing for breaking up tandems and the like before loads are taken into the City).  Again, public investment is now seen as competition with private business in this regard.

Also, keep in mind what I said previously: No extra or itemized federal funding is available for rest areas.  So, having to choose between paving rehabilitation, bridge replacements and...rest areas, DOTs are in maintenance mode:  DOTs will keep a minimum amount of rest areas maintained and only expand when extra money is provided (e.g., Gov. Cuomo's welcome centers and I Love NY stops).

Rest area maintenance and expansion was a huge topic about 10-15 years ago.  DOTs screamed about the need, but no money was allocated by the Feds.  So, that was the root cause of the current lingering mentality.

(personal opinion emphasized)

An interesting question is what to do if private sector is not doing the job. Like when I found myself on I-88, "nearest gas station is 35 miles that way, 28 miles other way (on a Thruway stop), or the one across the street opens at 6AM"...
Rest area is not solving that issue, but something tells me big rig parking would not be easy as well. And no parking is not an excuse for 15 minutes over the duty time limit for CDL...

So, trucking associations complain and put pressure on Feds and States to invest public funds...which they may or may not do...

On a philosophical level - parking areas seem to be hated (for good reasons or not) by locals who would have a bigger say in state DOT fund allocation than some association with members in other states.
Meanwhile, trucking is a backbone of goods flow - again, for better or worse. All that while trucking is seriously regulated, and rest intervals are mandated. 
Is it just me, or it can easily become catch-22 for truck drivers?   

Eh, for increasing parking in rest areas or whatnot, I would say local opposition is usually assuaged or otherwise overcome, with an emphasis on "usually" since a couple of exceptions come to mind of which I am hesitant to mention.

Wasn't there a big enough city with no open truck parking within 100 miles - meaning that deliveries had to plan on drive-in, (un)load, and drive out in a single duty cycle?

[dzheng35]

Fingers crossed cause the second phase of the 122 interchange has now entered the construction phase. Anyone ready?

https://www.dot.ny.gov/portal/pls/portal/MEXIS_APP.DYN_PROJECT_DETAILS.show?p_arg_names=p_pin&p_arg_values=806510

[abqtraveler]

Hey. I looked on satellite of google maps, it appears that there used to be a rest area between exits 58 and 59 here: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0203218,-76.6498169,423m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxOS4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I even confirmed it on historic aerial that it was once but it turns out that it was closed and torn out at some point. Does anyone recall when and why it got shut down and torn out? Thanks.

Probably to save money. During the Great Recession that started in 2008, almost every state had at least a few years with massive budget deficits. A lot of states closed at least some of their rest areas to help shore up their budgets during that timeframe.