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Started by FLRoads, January 21, 2009, 12:31:13 AM

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vdeane

Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 20, 2025, 05:40:21 PMAutomated enforcement for railroad crossings is a good idea at least. Way too many folks risk their lives recklessly trying to beat trains. Maybe having to pay fines would quickly discourage more people from doing that.
What if the crossing malfunctions?  I actually encountered one on Monday; the lights were flashing (it didn't have gate arms), bells were ringing, and no train anywhere nearby.  Traffic was treating it as a stop sign (which the wig-wag flashers legally are, which is why HAWK signals use them).  And yeah, I even rolled down my window like a bus when checking.  I would not want to get a ticket for that.  Perhaps instead they could use their Section 130 money to install gate arms.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.


freebrickproductions

Quote from: vdeane on February 20, 2025, 10:19:09 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 20, 2025, 05:40:21 PMAutomated enforcement for railroad crossings is a good idea at least. Way too many folks risk their lives recklessly trying to beat trains. Maybe having to pay fines would quickly discourage more people from doing that.
What if the crossing malfunctions?  I actually encountered one on Monday; the lights were flashing (it didn't have gate arms), bells were ringing, and no train anywhere nearby.  Traffic was treating it as a stop sign (which the wig-wag flashers legally are, which is why HAWK signals use them).  And yeah, I even rolled down my window like a bus when checking.  I would not want to get a ticket for that.  Perhaps instead they could use their Section 130 money to install gate arms.

I know you're supposed to stop and report it. Either way, if it was indeed malfunctioning (which a bunch of people passing through active signals for a long consecutive period of time would probably indicate, assuming there aren't just simply cops out to direct traffic), then the fines should automatically be dismissed.
It's all fun & games until someone summons Cthulhu and brings about the end of the world.

I also collect traffic lights, road signs, fans, and railroad crossing equipment.

(They/Them)

vdeane

Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 20, 2025, 10:33:40 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 20, 2025, 10:19:09 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on February 20, 2025, 05:40:21 PMAutomated enforcement for railroad crossings is a good idea at least. Way too many folks risk their lives recklessly trying to beat trains. Maybe having to pay fines would quickly discourage more people from doing that.
What if the crossing malfunctions?  I actually encountered one on Monday; the lights were flashing (it didn't have gate arms), bells were ringing, and no train anywhere nearby.  Traffic was treating it as a stop sign (which the wig-wag flashers legally are, which is why HAWK signals use them).  And yeah, I even rolled down my window like a bus when checking.  I would not want to get a ticket for that.  Perhaps instead they could use their Section 130 money to install gate arms.

I know you're supposed to stop and report it. Either way, if it was indeed malfunctioning (which a bunch of people passing through active signals for a long consecutive period of time would probably indicate, assuming there aren't just simply cops out to direct traffic), then the fines should automatically be dismissed.
It probably was, given the police car that was on site.  But I don't really trust automated enforcement enough to want to count on them doing the sensible thing.  I've even heard stories of parked cars getting tickets because someone happened to be speeding nearby and the camera picked the wrong car to cite.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

sprjus4

Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 20, 2025, 03:33:09 PMBill would allow railroad crossing gate cameras, allow FDOT to operate and install all camera types (red light, school speed limit, and railroad crossing), and allow FDOT to operate work zone speed cameras when minimal protection exists when workers are present (same threshold and fine, 10 over at $100).
https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/812/?Tab=BillText I'm wondering if this will result in lower temporary work zone speed limits given the very generous tolerance of the cameras, and the fact that they can only be activated under specific circumstances.

Another bill would re-introduce left lane for passing only when FDOT determines that the road should be restricted as such, and they can only do so when the speed limit is 65 or higher. https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/545/?Tab=BillText Ironically the Turnpike already has this authority and has seemingly used it pursuant to FSS338.239...

I can easily see them trying to photo enforce the 3-4 mile long 60 mph zone on I-95 north near the Georgia state line for the work zone that's only like 1,000 ft long on the far north end of that long speed (trap) zone... yet the massive construction project near I-295 in Jacksonville about 15 miles south of there has lane shifts and is all over the place, and has remained 70 mph.

I will never understand the inconsistency.

ElishaGOtis

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 21, 2025, 02:31:04 PM
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 20, 2025, 03:33:09 PMBill would allow railroad crossing gate cameras, allow FDOT to operate and install all camera types (red light, school speed limit, and railroad crossing), and allow FDOT to operate work zone speed cameras when minimal protection exists when workers are present (same threshold and fine, 10 over at $100).
https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/812/?Tab=BillText I'm wondering if this will result in lower temporary work zone speed limits given the very generous tolerance of the cameras, and the fact that they can only be activated under specific circumstances.

Another bill would re-introduce left lane for passing only when FDOT determines that the road should be restricted as such, and they can only do so when the speed limit is 65 or higher. https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/545/?Tab=BillText Ironically the Turnpike already has this authority and has seemingly used it pursuant to FSS338.239...

I can easily see them trying to photo enforce the 3-4 mile long 60 mph zone on I-95 north near the Georgia state line for the work zone that's only like 1,000 ft long on the far north end of that long speed (trap) zone... yet the massive construction project near I-295 in Jacksonville about 15 miles south of there has lane shifts and is all over the place, and has remained 70 mph.

I will never understand the inconsistency.

From what I was told, it all boils down to the opinions of the engineer completing the MOT plans. Some engineers prefer a blanket reduction of speeds to 10mph below the existing speed limit, while others prefer keeping as close to the same limit as possible in accordance with what's technically required in the speed zoning manual.

Will also mention there's only specific cases where cameras could be installed:
QuoteFor purposes of this subsection, the term "work zone area" means an area on the State Highway System where construction workers are present, there is no physical barrier or separation between the vehicular traffic and the construction workers, and the highway is a limited access facility.
I can drive 55 ONLY when it makes sense.

NOTE: Opinions expressed here on AARoads are solely my own and do not represent or reflect the statements, opinions, or decisions of any agency. Any official information I share will be quoted from another source.

sprjus4

Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 21, 2025, 05:06:53 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 21, 2025, 02:31:04 PM
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 20, 2025, 03:33:09 PMBill would allow railroad crossing gate cameras, allow FDOT to operate and install all camera types (red light, school speed limit, and railroad crossing), and allow FDOT to operate work zone speed cameras when minimal protection exists when workers are present (same threshold and fine, 10 over at $100).
https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/812/?Tab=BillText I'm wondering if this will result in lower temporary work zone speed limits given the very generous tolerance of the cameras, and the fact that they can only be activated under specific circumstances.

Another bill would re-introduce left lane for passing only when FDOT determines that the road should be restricted as such, and they can only do so when the speed limit is 65 or higher. https://flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/545/?Tab=BillText Ironically the Turnpike already has this authority and has seemingly used it pursuant to FSS338.239...

I can easily see them trying to photo enforce the 3-4 mile long 60 mph zone on I-95 north near the Georgia state line for the work zone that's only like 1,000 ft long on the far north end of that long speed (trap) zone... yet the massive construction project near I-295 in Jacksonville about 15 miles south of there has lane shifts and is all over the place, and has remained 70 mph.

I will never understand the inconsistency.

From what I was told, it all boils down to the opinions of the engineer completing the MOT plans. Some engineers prefer a blanket reduction of speeds to 10mph below the existing speed limit, while others prefer keeping as close to the same limit as possible in accordance with what's technically required in the speed zoning manual.

Will also mention there's only specific cases where cameras could be installed:
QuoteFor purposes of this subsection, the term "work zone area" means an area on the State Highway System where construction workers are present, there is no physical barrier or separation between the vehicular traffic and the construction workers, and the highway is a limited access facility.
My issue isn't exactly that it's a 60 mph zone, I understand such with the lane shifts at the bridge... but why does it drop to 60 mph almost 3 miles prior to the work zone? There's not even a single cone until the bridge. It's not even apart of the work zones area or project scope of what I imagine is rehabilitating the bridge.

It's just a 3 mile straightaway that's artificially 60 mph for a "work zone". People are too busy ignoring it that they come up too fast at the actual lane shifts at the bridge.

Interestingly enough, I mentioned the I-295 work zone but there's also a bridge about 9 miles south of the border (halfway between I-295 and the Georgia line) that's also under a major rehabilitation project, and tight lane shifts with no shoulder, and that also maintains its 70 mph speed limit.

02 Park Ave

It takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
C-o-H

sprjus4

#4007
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 22, 2025, 11:14:17 AMIt takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
Once again, my issue is not the fact the work zone is 60 mph. My issue is that the work zone is 1,000 ft long (0.18 mile), and the speed zone is 3 miles long. The work zone is not 3 miles long.

Should we reduce the entirety of I-95 between the Georgia state line and Jacksonville to 60 mph because of a few work zones scattered over the 25 mile stretch? It would only add 4 minutes.

When you randomly reduce the speed limit to 60 mph when there's no work zone, no construction cones, no barriers, no lane shifts, no nothing for 3 miles... no one is going to comply... especially when you have inconsistency with two previous work zones just miles before maintaining 70 mph, and now a random 60 mph zone with no work.

74/171FAN

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 22, 2025, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 22, 2025, 11:14:17 AMIt takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
Once again, my issue is not the fact the work zone is 60 mph. My issue is that the work zone is 1,000 ft long (0.18 mile), and the speed zone is 3 miles long. The work zone is not 3 miles long.

Should we reduce the entirety of I-95 between the Georgia state line and Jacksonville to 60 mph because of a few work zones scattered over the 25 mile stretch? It would only add 4 minutes.

When you randomly reduce the speed limit to 60 mph when there's no work zone, no construction cones, no barriers, no lane shifts, no nothing for 3 miles... no one is going to comply... especially when you have inconsistency with two previous work zones just miles before maintaining 70 mph, and now a random 60 mph zone with no work.

Right, I have seen I-78 reduced to 55 for miles west of I-287 before with no sign of an ongoing work zone.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?units=miles&u=markkos1992
Mob-Rule:  https://mob-rule.com/user/markkos1992

vdeane

Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 22, 2025, 11:14:17 AMIt takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
1. It still feels like you're crawling.
2. It teaches people to not obey work zone speed limits.

Honestly, I don't understand the "it's only X minutes/seconds" crowd at all.  Does it not feel hard for you to maintain a speed that clearly slower than what the road was designed for?  And if we want people to actually obey speed limits, doesn't it make more sense for the limits to make sense so people don't just automatically disregard them?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

sprjus4

Quote from: vdeane on February 22, 2025, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 22, 2025, 11:14:17 AMIt takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
1. It still feels like you're crawling.
2. It teaches people to not obey work zone speed limits.

Honestly, I don't understand the "it's only X minutes/seconds" crowd at all.  Does it not feel hard for you to maintain a speed that clearly slower than what the road was designed for?  And if we want people to actually obey speed limits, doesn't it make more sense for the limits to make sense so people don't just automatically disregard them?
Exactly, all are good points. I've driven through this work zone a few times recently... my observations:

- No one is obeying the speed limit (still doing 75-80+ mph)
- When people do approach the actual lane shifts, after 3 miles of disobeying the artificial speed limit, people abruptly brake and don't expect the sudden shift. If you lowered the limit to 60 mph actually at the work zone, people might be alert and you can use those reduced speed signs to actually warn motorists, vs. have expected them to be doing 60 mph for the last 3 miles when they're not.

I will again say, I'm not arguing against the 60 mph speed limit. I understand why it's posted for the work zone, the lanes narrow and shift. But there is zero reason it needs to be posted 3 miles before the actual work zone, then be called a "work zone" speed limit, complete with reactive signs that show your speed that is also ignored.

ElishaGOtis

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 22, 2025, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 22, 2025, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 22, 2025, 11:14:17 AMIt takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
1. It still feels like you're crawling.
2. It teaches people to not obey work zone speed limits.

Honestly, I don't understand the "it's only X minutes/seconds" crowd at all.  Does it not feel hard for you to maintain a speed that clearly slower than what the road was designed for?  And if we want people to actually obey speed limits, doesn't it make more sense for the limits to make sense so people don't just automatically disregard them?
Exactly, all are good points. I've driven through this work zone a few times recently... my observations:

- No one is obeying the speed limit (still doing 75-80+ mph)
- When people do approach the actual lane shifts, after 3 miles of disobeying the artificial speed limit, people abruptly brake and don't expect the sudden shift. If you lowered the limit to 60 mph actually at the work zone, people might be alert and you can use those reduced speed signs to actually warn motorists, vs. have expected them to be doing 60 mph for the last 3 miles when they're not.

I will again say, I'm not arguing against the 60 mph speed limit. I understand why it's posted for the work zone, the lanes narrow and shift. But there is zero reason it needs to be posted 3 miles before the actual work zone, then be called a "work zone" speed limit, complete with reactive signs that show your speed that is also ignored.

Probably the worst one I've seen is I-10 in the panhandle. It's 60 from MM47 to MM63 just for a single work zone and a (sigh) resurfacing project... they were originally supposed to be separate work zones but the proximity was too close.
I can drive 55 ONLY when it makes sense.

NOTE: Opinions expressed here on AARoads are solely my own and do not represent or reflect the statements, opinions, or decisions of any agency. Any official information I share will be quoted from another source.

02 Park Ave

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 21, 2025, 02:31:04 PMI can easily see them trying to photo enforce the 3-4 mile long 60 mph zone on I-95 north near the Georgia state line for the work zone that's only like 1,000 ft long on the far north end of that long speed (trap) zone... yet the massive construction project near I-295 in Jacksonville about 15 miles south of there has lane shifts and is all over the place, and has remained 70 mph.

I will never understand the inconsistency.

How would an autonomous vehicle handle this inconsistency?
C-o-H

sprjus4

Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 22, 2025, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 22, 2025, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 22, 2025, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 22, 2025, 11:14:17 AMIt takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
1. It still feels like you're crawling.
2. It teaches people to not obey work zone speed limits.

Honestly, I don't understand the "it's only X minutes/seconds" crowd at all.  Does it not feel hard for you to maintain a speed that clearly slower than what the road was designed for?  And if we want people to actually obey speed limits, doesn't it make more sense for the limits to make sense so people don't just automatically disregard them?
Exactly, all are good points. I've driven through this work zone a few times recently... my observations:

- No one is obeying the speed limit (still doing 75-80+ mph)
- When people do approach the actual lane shifts, after 3 miles of disobeying the artificial speed limit, people abruptly brake and don't expect the sudden shift. If you lowered the limit to 60 mph actually at the work zone, people might be alert and you can use those reduced speed signs to actually warn motorists, vs. have expected them to be doing 60 mph for the last 3 miles when they're not.

I will again say, I'm not arguing against the 60 mph speed limit. I understand why it's posted for the work zone, the lanes narrow and shift. But there is zero reason it needs to be posted 3 miles before the actual work zone, then be called a "work zone" speed limit, complete with reactive signs that show your speed that is also ignored.

Probably the worst one I've seen is I-10 in the panhandle. It's 60 from MM47 to MM63 just for a single work zone and a (sigh) resurfacing project... they were originally supposed to be separate work zones but the proximity was too close.
Isn't the standard protocol for resurfacing projects to lower the speed limit during working hours and lane closures, and to revert it to 70 mph during the day when no work is going on?

That's how I've seen it most places anyways.

roadman65

I see the brown painted Deldot street lamp posts that started with the defunct Orlando Orange County Expressway Authority for the East West Expressway that made it to the I-4 Ultimate is now making it to other areas around Central Florida.

The future Daryl Carter Parkway DDI is getting them now. The ramps from I-4 that will soon carry traffic to Daryl Carter is got them installed.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

D-Dey65

Well, it's all over the news this weekend that the interchange between I-75 and US 301 in Manatee County (Exit 224) is being rebuilt;
https://www.fox13news.com/news/new-traffic-ramps-open-part-major-i-75-u-s-301-interchange-overhaul
Personally, I think the way they're doing it sucks. What they should've done was keep the loop ramps and make the new ramps along the northbound lanes of US 301 as an east-to-south on-ramp, and a north-to-east off-ramp.



Great Lakes Roads

As of February 22nd, the FTE's portion of the Southern Connector Extension (SR 417) and the Daniel Webster Western Beltway Part C (SR 429) in Orlando has been converted to cashless tolling.
-Jay Seaburg

NJRoadfan

Drove it yesterday morning, signs everywhere to not stop at the toll plazas. Weird that parts of the same road still have cash collection because CFX hasn't phased it out yet.

ElishaGOtis

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 22, 2025, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 22, 2025, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 22, 2025, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 22, 2025, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 22, 2025, 11:14:17 AMIt takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
1. It still feels like you're crawling.
2. It teaches people to not obey work zone speed limits.

Honestly, I don't understand the "it's only X minutes/seconds" crowd at all.  Does it not feel hard for you to maintain a speed that clearly slower than what the road was designed for?  And if we want people to actually obey speed limits, doesn't it make more sense for the limits to make sense so people don't just automatically disregard them?
Exactly, all are good points. I've driven through this work zone a few times recently... my observations:

- No one is obeying the speed limit (still doing 75-80+ mph)
- When people do approach the actual lane shifts, after 3 miles of disobeying the artificial speed limit, people abruptly brake and don't expect the sudden shift. If you lowered the limit to 60 mph actually at the work zone, people might be alert and you can use those reduced speed signs to actually warn motorists, vs. have expected them to be doing 60 mph for the last 3 miles when they're not.

I will again say, I'm not arguing against the 60 mph speed limit. I understand why it's posted for the work zone, the lanes narrow and shift. But there is zero reason it needs to be posted 3 miles before the actual work zone, then be called a "work zone" speed limit, complete with reactive signs that show your speed that is also ignored.

Probably the worst one I've seen is I-10 in the panhandle. It's 60 from MM47 to MM63 just for a single work zone and a (sigh) resurfacing project... they were originally supposed to be separate work zones but the proximity was too close.
Isn't the standard protocol for resurfacing projects to lower the speed limit during working hours and lane closures, and to revert it to 70 mph during the day when no work is going on?

That's how I've seen it most places anyways.

That's what I've seen. However, I've recently seen a growing number of 3R projects where there is a blanket reduction, such as:
- I-4 near Lakeland (70 to 60)
- US-98 East Lake Okeechobee (55 to 45)
- SR-26 between Orange Heights and Melrose (60 to 55)
- I-295 between SR-21 and I-10 (65 to 55, now complete)

These were drops that applied 24/7 regardless of whether there were workers present.
I can drive 55 ONLY when it makes sense.

NOTE: Opinions expressed here on AARoads are solely my own and do not represent or reflect the statements, opinions, or decisions of any agency. Any official information I share will be quoted from another source.

PColumbus73

Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 23, 2025, 03:17:29 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 22, 2025, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 22, 2025, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 22, 2025, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 22, 2025, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 22, 2025, 11:14:17 AMIt takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
1. It still feels like you're crawling.
2. It teaches people to not obey work zone speed limits.

Honestly, I don't understand the "it's only X minutes/seconds" crowd at all.  Does it not feel hard for you to maintain a speed that clearly slower than what the road was designed for?  And if we want people to actually obey speed limits, doesn't it make more sense for the limits to make sense so people don't just automatically disregard them?
Exactly, all are good points. I've driven through this work zone a few times recently... my observations:

- No one is obeying the speed limit (still doing 75-80+ mph)
- When people do approach the actual lane shifts, after 3 miles of disobeying the artificial speed limit, people abruptly brake and don't expect the sudden shift. If you lowered the limit to 60 mph actually at the work zone, people might be alert and you can use those reduced speed signs to actually warn motorists, vs. have expected them to be doing 60 mph for the last 3 miles when they're not.

I will again say, I'm not arguing against the 60 mph speed limit. I understand why it's posted for the work zone, the lanes narrow and shift. But there is zero reason it needs to be posted 3 miles before the actual work zone, then be called a "work zone" speed limit, complete with reactive signs that show your speed that is also ignored.

Probably the worst one I've seen is I-10 in the panhandle. It's 60 from MM47 to MM63 just for a single work zone and a (sigh) resurfacing project... they were originally supposed to be separate work zones but the proximity was too close.
Isn't the standard protocol for resurfacing projects to lower the speed limit during working hours and lane closures, and to revert it to 70 mph during the day when no work is going on?

That's how I've seen it most places anyways.

That's what I've seen. However, I've recently seen a growing number of 3R projects where there is a blanket reduction, such as:
- I-4 near Lakeland (70 to 60)
- US-98 East Lake Okeechobee (55 to 45)
- SR-26 between Orange Heights and Melrose (60 to 55)
- I-295 between SR-21 and I-10 (65 to 55, now complete)

These were drops that applied 24/7 regardless of whether there were workers present.

Perhaps there ought to be a study about how to effectively sign work zones. I have a theory that the reasons construction signage gets ignored is from a mix of 'over-warning' drivers, and contractors leaving signage up when there is no construction. Maybe if they condensed the advance warning distance or changed how and for how long construction signage is allowed to remain for. I would guess some contractors / states leave construction signage up until the contract is closed out, regardless of how long the duration has been since work was completed.

roadman65

#4020


Here is some photos I took today of the ongoing Kirkman and Sand Lake Road interchange construction that has new signs.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/54351562598

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/54350449402
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/54350452502


With Epic Universe opening May 22 this year, I assume this interchange will be completed by then.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

The Ghostbuster

The photos are not registering. You may have to upload them again.

sprjus4

Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 25, 2025, 11:03:27 PM
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 23, 2025, 03:17:29 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 22, 2025, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 22, 2025, 07:43:52 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 22, 2025, 05:06:02 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 22, 2025, 04:17:56 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 22, 2025, 11:14:17 AMIt takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
1. It still feels like you're crawling.
2. It teaches people to not obey work zone speed limits.

Honestly, I don't understand the "it's only X minutes/seconds" crowd at all.  Does it not feel hard for you to maintain a speed that clearly slower than what the road was designed for?  And if we want people to actually obey speed limits, doesn't it make more sense for the limits to make sense so people don't just automatically disregard them?
Exactly, all are good points. I've driven through this work zone a few times recently... my observations:

- No one is obeying the speed limit (still doing 75-80+ mph)
- When people do approach the actual lane shifts, after 3 miles of disobeying the artificial speed limit, people abruptly brake and don't expect the sudden shift. If you lowered the limit to 60 mph actually at the work zone, people might be alert and you can use those reduced speed signs to actually warn motorists, vs. have expected them to be doing 60 mph for the last 3 miles when they're not.

I will again say, I'm not arguing against the 60 mph speed limit. I understand why it's posted for the work zone, the lanes narrow and shift. But there is zero reason it needs to be posted 3 miles before the actual work zone, then be called a "work zone" speed limit, complete with reactive signs that show your speed that is also ignored.

Probably the worst one I've seen is I-10 in the panhandle. It's 60 from MM47 to MM63 just for a single work zone and a (sigh) resurfacing project... they were originally supposed to be separate work zones but the proximity was too close.
Isn't the standard protocol for resurfacing projects to lower the speed limit during working hours and lane closures, and to revert it to 70 mph during the day when no work is going on?

That's how I've seen it most places anyways.

That's what I've seen. However, I've recently seen a growing number of 3R projects where there is a blanket reduction, such as:
- I-4 near Lakeland (70 to 60)
- US-98 East Lake Okeechobee (55 to 45)
- SR-26 between Orange Heights and Melrose (60 to 55)
- I-295 between SR-21 and I-10 (65 to 55, now complete)

These were drops that applied 24/7 regardless of whether there were workers present.

Perhaps there ought to be a study about how to effectively sign work zones. I have a theory that the reasons construction signage gets ignored is from a mix of 'over-warning' drivers, and contractors leaving signage up when there is no construction. Maybe if they condensed the advance warning distance or changed how and for how long construction signage is allowed to remain for. I would guess some contractors / states leave construction signage up until the contract is closed out, regardless of how long the duration has been since work was completed.
Variable speed limit signage would also be nice to see. I've been seeing that pop up more and more recently.

Up here in Virginia, they've been widening I-64 in several phases, and for the first few phases some years ago, they merely lowered the speed limit from 65/70 mph to a 24/7 55 mph speed limit, that had little compliance.

On the current phases of widening though, they are now using variable speed limits, lowering to 60 mph during active work and remaining 70 mph all other times. Seems to be less variances in speed now and more compliance within 10 mph of the limit.

ElishaGOtis

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 26, 2025, 09:15:40 AM
Quote from: PColumbus73 on February 25, 2025, 11:03:27 PM
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 23, 2025, 03:17:29 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 22, 2025, 09:36:33 PM
Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 22, 2025, 07:43:52 PM
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Quote from: 02 Park Ave on February 22, 2025, 11:14:17 AMIt takes less than 30 seconds longer to drive 3 miles at 60 mph rather than at 70 mph.  What's the big deal?
1. It still feels like you're crawling.
2. It teaches people to not obey work zone speed limits.

Honestly, I don't understand the "it's only X minutes/seconds" crowd at all.  Does it not feel hard for you to maintain a speed that clearly slower than what the road was designed for?  And if we want people to actually obey speed limits, doesn't it make more sense for the limits to make sense so people don't just automatically disregard them?
Exactly, all are good points. I've driven through this work zone a few times recently... my observations:

- No one is obeying the speed limit (still doing 75-80+ mph)
- When people do approach the actual lane shifts, after 3 miles of disobeying the artificial speed limit, people abruptly brake and don't expect the sudden shift. If you lowered the limit to 60 mph actually at the work zone, people might be alert and you can use those reduced speed signs to actually warn motorists, vs. have expected them to be doing 60 mph for the last 3 miles when they're not.

I will again say, I'm not arguing against the 60 mph speed limit. I understand why it's posted for the work zone, the lanes narrow and shift. But there is zero reason it needs to be posted 3 miles before the actual work zone, then be called a "work zone" speed limit, complete with reactive signs that show your speed that is also ignored.

Probably the worst one I've seen is I-10 in the panhandle. It's 60 from MM47 to MM63 just for a single work zone and a (sigh) resurfacing project... they were originally supposed to be separate work zones but the proximity was too close.
Isn't the standard protocol for resurfacing projects to lower the speed limit during working hours and lane closures, and to revert it to 70 mph during the day when no work is going on?

That's how I've seen it most places anyways.

That's what I've seen. However, I've recently seen a growing number of 3R projects where there is a blanket reduction, such as:
- I-4 near Lakeland (70 to 60)
- US-98 East Lake Okeechobee (55 to 45)
- SR-26 between Orange Heights and Melrose (60 to 55)
- I-295 between SR-21 and I-10 (65 to 55, now complete)

These were drops that applied 24/7 regardless of whether there were workers present.

Perhaps there ought to be a study about how to effectively sign work zones. I have a theory that the reasons construction signage gets ignored is from a mix of 'over-warning' drivers, and contractors leaving signage up when there is no construction. Maybe if they condensed the advance warning distance or changed how and for how long construction signage is allowed to remain for. I would guess some contractors / states leave construction signage up until the contract is closed out, regardless of how long the duration has been since work was completed.
Variable speed limit signage would also be nice to see. I've been seeing that pop up more and more recently.

Up here in Virginia, they've been widening I-64 in several phases, and for the first few phases some years ago, they merely lowered the speed limit from 65/70 mph to a 24/7 55 mph speed limit, that had little compliance.

On the current phases of widening though, they are now using variable speed limits, lowering to 60 mph during active work and remaining 70 mph all other times. Seems to be less variances in speed now and more compliance within 10 mph of the limit.

Smart work zones: https://fdotwww.blob.core.windows.net/sitefinity/docs/default-source/design/standardplans/irr/2024/swzguidebookdraft2.pdf?sfvrsn=42d7fb34_2
I can drive 55 ONLY when it makes sense.

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roadman65

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 25, 2025, 11:14:14 PMThe photos are not registering. You may have to upload them again.
Try it now. Seems to work for me.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe



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