Indiana Notes

[NWI_Irish96]

All 4 lanes of the reconstructed SR-23 near the Notre Dame campus opened today, as that project nears completion. A couple of intersections remain partially or completely closed, as final work continues. All signals are operational, but signage is minimal for now.

This eliminates the troublesome intersection referred to locally as "five points," a name which indicates a lack of math skills. The old intersection was the crossroads for three streets, all of which extended both ways from the intersection. Wouldn't that be "six points"? Well, it's moot now.

Here's the story from WSBT television: http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/today-crews-opening-all-lanes-of-new-state-road-23-near-notre-dame/-/21046398/22992140/-/pg5ivfz/-/index.html

Five points got its name because of the five "corners" that faced Eddy Street in the intersection.  The sixth "point" was the SW corner of South Bend and Corby, and it sits back a ways from Eddy, so it didn't count. 

[theline]

Here's an aerial from Google, taken before construction started:


I labeled the "corners" as you describe. I'm still not getting it, maybe because I most often approached the intersection on South Bend Ave., from the NE or SW. Like I said, it's history now.

[NWI_Irish96]

Here's an aerial from Google, taken before construction started:


I labeled the "corners" as you describe. I'm still not getting it, maybe because I most often approached the intersection on South Bend Ave., from the NE or SW. Like I said, it's history now.

Well, like you said it's too late now.  Ten years ago, you could have started a campaign for the underrepresented corner.

[mukade]

With all the highway decommissionings in Lafayette, there is no longer any thru west to east state highway in Lafayette. If it weren't for a short gap between the end of SR 38 and US 52, there would, but still, it is a strange situation - especially for an area that has a major state university. I mapped state roads in Lafayette in Google Maps here.

Also, the Lafayette city center is also not served by a state highway any longer. Almost all county seats have a state road pretty near the courthouse.

[silverback1065]

With all the highway decommissionings in Lafayette, there is no longer any thru west to east state highway in Lafayette. If it weren't for a short gap between the end of SR 38 and US 52, there would, but still, it is a strange situation - especially for an area that has a major state university. I mapped state roads in Lafayette in Google Maps here.

Also, the Lafayette city center is also not served by a state highway any longer. Almost all county seats have a state road pretty near the courthouse.

I thought there was a law saying they had to do that (county seats must have a state highway) 25 and 26 were supposed to be continuous using teal with 52, but i don't know why that never actually happened.

[mukade]

I-65, US 52, US 231, and SR 38 along with small portions of SR 25 (S) and SR 26 (E) are in the city limits of the county seat so I guess that counts.

[tdindy88]

Counts just as much as with Bloomington, which I notice also doesn't have a state highway near its courthouse, surely a coincidence. Of course SR 37 used to travel through town along with SR 45 46, and 48. Indy would be iffy as there isn't a state or U.S. highway near its courthouse, but if interstates count than it's only a few blocks away.

[silverback1065]

I-65, US 52, US 231, and SR 38 along with small portions of SR 25 (S) and SR 26 (E) are in the city limits of the county seat so I guess that counts.

I think that's how they get away with it.

[thefro]

Counts just as much as with Bloomington, which I notice also doesn't have a state highway near its courthouse, surely a coincidence. Of course SR 37 used to travel through town along with SR 45 46, and 48. Indy would be iffy as there isn't a state or U.S. highway near its courthouse, but if interstates count than it's only a few blocks away.

Business SR 37 still runs right by the courthouse on Walnut/College and SR 45/46 run through town and technically goes through the far east/north sides of IU's campus.  A good stretch of SR 37/future I-69 is within the city limits as well.

[tdindy88]

Business SR 37 isn't a state highway however, it's locally maintained. And the state highways bypassing the main part of the city, yes they do travel well within city limits, makes the example similar to Lafayette's. I was merely commenting on the "courthouse" aspect of the situation. I would doubt that there are any incorporated communities in the state that are completely devoid of an INDOT-maintained highway.

[thefro]

Business SR 37 isn't a state highway however, it's locally maintained. And the state highways bypassing the main part of the city, yes they do travel well within city limits, makes the example similar to Lafayette's. I was merely commenting on the "courthouse" aspect of the situation. I would doubt that there are any incorporated communities in the state that are completely devoid of an INDOT-maintained highway.

Topeka, Indiana's town limits appear to be about a half-mile away from SR 5.

Grabill, IN is a couple miles away from both SR 1 & SR 37.

Both are incorporated as towns.  I'm sure there's a few more around the state.

[NWI_Irish96]

Business SR 37 isn't a state highway however, it's locally maintained. And the state highways bypassing the main part of the city, yes they do travel well within city limits, makes the example similar to Lafayette's. I was merely commenting on the "courthouse" aspect of the situation. I would doubt that there are any incorporated communities in the state that are completely devoid of an INDOT-maintained highway.

Topeka, Indiana's town limits appear to be about a half-mile away from SR 5.

Grabill, IN is a couple miles away from both SR 1 & SR 37.

Both are incorporated as towns.  I'm sure there's a few more around the state.

Neither of those are county seats.

[tdindy88]

Okay, there are likely several communities that are devoid of state highways in their limits. Gaston in Delaware County would be another. As for county seats, the only one I can think of that "may" fit is Newport with SR 63 just outside the town, although Google Maps is showing the city limits including a little portion of that highway.

[mukade]

The remarkable thing about Lafayette is that there is no thru east-west route there. That is a bit weird even if you support the state's strategy. Bloomington has both a N-S and E-W state road. I would expect more and more state roads migrating away from the courthouse areas of county seats in favor of bypasses.

I also would guess Lake County has to be high on INDOT's list with SR 51, SR 53, SR 55 north of US 30, SR 130, and SR 152 not fitting INDOT's idea for state roads. Also, US 12 could be paired with US 20 through both Lake and Porter Counties.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

The Nine Span Bridge on Indianapolis Boulevard in Hammond officially reopened yesterday, a few weeks ahead of schedule. The new bridge allows heavy trucks, supports four lanes of traffic, and includes sidewalks on each side. There are pictures of the old 30s-era bridge on each side for historic purposes.

From the pictures I saw, they did a very good job, and it seems they lowered the elevation of the bridge a bit.

[silverback1065]

The remarkable thing about Lafayette is that there is no thru east-west route there. That is a bit weird even if you support the state's strategy. Bloomington has both a N-S and E-W state road. I would expect more and more state roads migrating away from the courthouse areas of county seats in favor of bypasses.

I also would guess Lake County has to be high on INDOT's list with SR 51, SR 53, SR 55 north of US 30, SR 130, and SR 152 not fitting INDOT's idea for state roads. Also, US 12 could be paired with US 20 through both Lake and Porter Counties.

Being a road geek, I hope that never happens.  But I'm very surprised it hasn't happened yet though.  SR 53 is essentially worthless, as is sr 130 and 55.  US 12/20 is a good alternate to the interstate (If you're willing to drive through Gary). 

[nwi_navigator_1181]

Another portion of I-65 will see expansion in the next few years.

According to the NWI Times, the next scheduled widening will be in the Lafayette area. INDOT plans to work the stretch between Indiana 38 (exit 168) and Indiana 25 (exit 175). No extra space will be necessary, since the lanes will be installed in the median.

Bids will be sought next fall, with completion set for either 2016 or 2017.

As I said before, I like this approach to the initiative of widening I-65 from Gary to Louisville. Hit the major and intermediate cities first, then work the more lightly traveled sections.

[NWI_Irish96]

I understand that the Lafayette section has more traffic than the section between Lafayette and Lebanon, but by skipping over that section, at least for a while, there are going to be two choke points instead of one. 

[tdindy88]

Looking at the traffic counts according to INDOT for that stretch of highway, there's not a huge difference with traffic on either stretch. South of Lebanon, I-65 is at 65,000 and above heading to Indy. From Lebanon to SR 38 it's around 35,000 to 38,000. From SR 38 to SR 25, the proposed stretch to be widened, it's 34,000 to 40,000. And from SR 25 to SR 43 (not included in the widening,) it's 45,000, making that the busiest stretch of I-65 in Tippecanoe County. And if INDOT is indeed persuing the Gary to Indy stretch of I-65 first, it's 42,000 north of SR 2, another logical stretch to cover being from SR 2 to US 30.

Meanwhile, to the south, it's 44,000 and higher for all of I-65 north of Columbus with traffic counts over 55,000 north of Franklin. Of course I'm not saying that I-65 in Lafayette should not be widened, I'm just giving some comparisons in traffic along that stretch.

The link to the INDOT traffic map is: http://dotmaps.indot.in.gov/apps/trafficcounts/

[NWI_Irish96]

You certainly get no argument from me that Franklin-Columbus is the stretch of I-65 most in need if widening. 

I have to wonder if the choice of the Lafayette section is political, since it clearly isn't based on traffic counts.

[Rick Powell]

And if INDOT is indeed persuing the Gary to Indy stretch of I-65 first, it's 42,000 north of SR 2, another logical stretch to cover being from SR 2 to US 30.

In NIRPC's vote yesterday, the stretch of I-65 from SR 2 to US 231 was approved, along with the Illiana Corridor, for inclusion in the NIRPC long range plan.  The stretch of I-65 from US 30 to US 231 is already in the plan, and should be a relatively inexpensive section to convert to 3-lanes in each direction; the inside shoulders were last rebuilt as a third inside lane of pavement rather than to shoulder standards, and only a new set of inside shoulders need to be added and the pavement re-striped for 3 lanes.

[Brandon]

And if INDOT is indeed persuing the Gary to Indy stretch of I-65 first, it's 42,000 north of SR 2, another logical stretch to cover being from SR 2 to US 30.

In NIRPC's vote yesterday, the stretch of I-65 from SR 2 to US 231 was approved, along with the Illiana Corridor, for inclusion in the NIRPC long range plan.  The stretch of I-65 from US 30 to US 231 is already in the plan, and should be a relatively inexpensive section to convert to 3-lanes in each direction; the inside shoulders were last rebuilt as a third inside lane of pavement rather than to shoulder standards, and only a new set of inside shoulders need to be added and the pavement re-striped for 3 lanes.

Gee, InDOT makes it seem so easy.  Maybe IDOT could learn a thing or two them them. 

[thefro]

You certainly get no argument from me that Franklin-Columbus is the stretch of I-65 most in need if widening. 

I have to wonder if the choice of the Lafayette section is political, since it clearly isn't based on traffic counts.

I'm sure that Greenwood to Columbus section will be upgraded as well in the medium-term future considering Pence is from Columbus.  Obviously there's more to be gained politically in Lafayette than Columbus though.

[nwi_navigator_1181]

So the inside shoulders would be shrunk to less than vehicle width to accommodate three lanes between US 30 and US 231? That would help with the 109th Avenue bridge, but the US 231 bridge would still need to be replaced.

I'm surprised the additional lane wasn't put into play when the initial work was done 10 years ago; I figured that was a given.

[Indyroads]

Business SR 37 isn't a state highway however, it's locally maintained. And the state highways bypassing the main part of the city, yes they do travel well within city limits, makes the example similar to Lafayette's. I was merely commenting on the "courthouse" aspect of the situation. I would doubt that there are any incorporated communities in the state that are completely devoid of an INDOT-maintained highway.

More Business or CITY routes may be needed to promote wayfaring in cities where state routes now bypass the city or have been decommissioned altogether (ALA Lafayette, Bloomington, and Terre Haute) Locally maintained routes can still be signed as business routes. I had come up with a system of city route numbers for Indianapolis that even includes a special route marker to replace routes that were decommissioned long ago such as Meridian Street (City 1) Washington street (City 4) and Allisonville Road (City 7A). OR Washington St in the loop could become Business US 40, etc...