New Jersey Turnpike

[jeffandnicole]

I-95 North of 287 would've still been the same regardless of the routing south of 287.   The Somerset Freeway was just a portion of I-95. 

[wanderer2575]

I very much doubt most of the public really sees the change that leads you to say the I-95 part was "functionally expelled"  from the Turnpike. What those of us who are "highway aware"  and what the general public see are very different.

I am aware that the ticket section of the PA Turnpike  only has two sets of numbers and yet if the reason for pushing to renumber roads like the NJ Turnpike and the NY Thruway is the public expects numbering by route, then why is it OK to not start the numbers over for I-276? You can't have it both ways.

As for confusing, prior to the renumbering, I knew exits/plazas 1 to 30 were the mainline and 31 to 38 were the NE extension. Now we have (in my opinion) the absurdity that PA Turnpike Exit 56 is in Allentown while PA Turnpike Exit 57 is in Pittsburgh. Saying "PA Turnpike Exit 56"  doesn't tell me much unless I already know 56 in on the NE extension. It was easy to memorize the ranges that were mainline and NE extension. But it's no longer ranges - it's more of a scattershot arrangement of what's mainline and what's NE extension. And if I, someone who takes an interest in roads, is confused, I'm sure much of the general public is confused (or if not confused, frustrated by a numbering system that is not intuitive like the old system).

I kind of agree that the PA Turnpike's numbering system with the conversion of both the mainline and Northeast Extension to I-76 and I-476 mileage-based exit numbering respectively, is awkward at best.  You can see from this sign right here: https://goo.gl/maps/WcBNdToLxvYPMsGU8 , how they want to keep considering it as a unified exit numbering system, yet it's obvious from the sign alone that the numbers have taken on a very discontinuous order.  And, if I'm not mistaken, it's only by pure luck that the numbers on the Northeast Extension don't repeat the lower numbers on I-76.  What if they build a new tourist attraction just north of US 22 that warrants adding an Exit 57 to the Northeast Extension?  That would ruin the system as we know it!

Had they simply not included the exit number ranges on the I-276 East and I-476 North signs, this wouldn't be an issue.  I wonder if that was done only so people could look at their toll tickets and prepare themselves for the sticker shock in advance.

[bluecountry]

So are there any plans to actually re-number the exits of I-95 north of exit 18?

[Alps]

So are there any plans to actually re-number the exits of I-95 north of exit 18?

I doubt you'll see those renumbered unless the rest of the Turnpike is. It'd be more confusing to do those out of context of anything else. (Standard disclaimer: I do not know any actual plans in this regard.)

[NJRoadfan]

Some MUTCD style exit signs have popped up on the southern section of the NJTP at Exit 4 and 5 southbound. Just one advance sign at each was put up, so you get a mismatch of styles for the time being.

[storm2k]

Some MUTCD style exit signs have popped up on the southern section of the NJTP at Exit 4 and 5 southbound. Just one advance sign at each was put up, so you get a mismatch of styles for the time being.

That's surprising. I thought all the signage south of 6 was going to exist as is until it was due for replacement, and the signage south of there was replaced in the late aughts, not long before the widening project.

[NJRoadfan]

Both signs appear to be new going by Streetview. One was a 1/4 mile advance for Exit 5 (odd) and the other a 1/2 mile advance for Exit 4. The Exit 5 one was surprising because Turnpike standard for advances is usually 2 miles, 1 mile, 1/2 mile. 1/4 mile signs are only used in urban areas with closely spaced exits. Both were ground mounted as well.

[Ned Weasel]

Both signs appear to be new going by Streetview. One was a 1/4 mile advance for Exit 5 (odd) and the other a 1/2 mile advance for Exit 4. The Exit 5 one was surprising because Turnpike standard for advances is usually 2 miles, 1 mile, 1/2 mile. 1/4 mile signs are only used in urban areas with closely spaced exits. Both were ground mounted as well.

Actually, the quarter-mile advance guide signs are intended to replace the classic-style exit direction signs, which were a bit of an anomaly that was unique to the classic NJ Turnpike style of signage.  These signs came shortly before the start of the deceleration lane, while a typical exit direction sign, if placed overhead, would come at approximately the point where the exit ramp separates from the mainline.  The classic exit direction sign would use a special arrow that points up, curves slightly to the right, and then points up again, widening as the arrow shaft moves from bottom to top.

At the point where the exit ramp separates from the mainline, classic NJ Turnpike style would use an overhead sign with the only exit number and either a curved upward-right arrow, or a straight slanting upward-right arrow.  They were inconsistent in that last detail, and as much as I loved the classic style of NJ Turnpike signage, there were noticeable inconsistencies.  These signs are being replaced with MUTCD-standard exit direction signs, and MUTCD-standard exit gore signs are being installed inside the exit gore locations.

Edit:  I can't seem to find these new signs, by the way.  Are we using the same StreetView?  https://goo.gl/maps/ndrNxVwNVST54NF47

[storm2k]

Edit:  I can't seem to find these new signs, by the way.  Are we using the same StreetView?  https://goo.gl/maps/ndrNxVwNVST54NF47

Same here. Latest GSV I see is from August 2019.

But to illustrate the point, observe this 1/4 mile sign for Exit 9, which replaced the "classic" up-to-the-right arrow sign (taken from Alps' site since apparently they've scrubbed older GSV data from the Turnpike?), and the sign at the gore point itself, which replaced the classic over the lane exit gore sign. Haven't seen any of this as ground mount since everything north of 9 is in the more urban areas or the dual-dual roadways.

[Ned Weasel]

Edit:  I can't seem to find these new signs, by the way.  Are we using the same StreetView?  https://goo.gl/maps/ndrNxVwNVST54NF47

Same here. Latest GSV I see is from August 2019.

But to illustrate the point, observe this 1/4 mile sign for Exit 9, which replaced the "classic" up-to-the-right arrow sign (taken from Alps' site since apparently they've scrubbed older GSV data from the Turnpike?), and the sign at the gore point itself, which replaced the classic over the lane exit gore sign. Haven't seen any of this as ground mount since everything north of 9 is in the more urban areas or the dual-dual roadways.

Good point.  It's interesting that the new quarter-mile advance guide sign is ground-mounted.  Did it replace the classic-style exit direction sign?  Is the overhead assembly gone?  Or does it just come shortly before it?

[NJRoadfan]

These signs are brand new (they weren't up as recently as December). The ground mounted 1/4 mile one caught me by surprise particularly because the giant curved arrow Exit 5 sign is still up.

[storm2k]

These signs are brand new (they weren't up as recently as December). The ground mounted 1/4 mile one caught me by surprise particularly because the giant curved arrow Exit 5 sign is still up.

The signs on the overhead were replaced with those other ones I was talking about, but that particular structure is pretty old. When they replaced the signage in that stretch, they just replaced the signs on the original structures. That structure is probably past its service life and they figure it's just easier to ground mount the replacements.

[jeffandnicole]

Some MUTCD style exit signs have popped up on the southern section of the NJTP at Exit 4 and 5 southbound. Just one advance sign at each was put up, so you get a mismatch of styles for the time being.

That's surprising. I thought all the signage south of 6 was going to exist as is until it was due for replacement, and the signage south of there was replaced in the late aughts, not long before the widening project.

Signage lasts about 20 years, so if they replaced it after 10 years it's not horribly early, especially if they decided to go all in on maintaining a single style on the entire roadway.  I looked thru the minutes of the meetings for the past year and didn't see anything that stood out, so they could be part of an older signing project or something done in-house.

I think everyone here assumed they wouldn't replace the signage to the MUTCD style until necessary, but I'm not sure the Turnpike ever technically said that.

[storm2k]

Some MUTCD style exit signs have popped up on the southern section of the NJTP at Exit 4 and 5 southbound. Just one advance sign at each was put up, so you get a mismatch of styles for the time being.

That's surprising. I thought all the signage south of 6 was going to exist as is until it was due for replacement, and the signage south of there was replaced in the late aughts, not long before the widening project.

Signage lasts about 20 years, so if they replaced it after 10 years it's not horribly early, especially if they decided to go all in on maintaining a single style on the entire roadway.  I looked thru the minutes of the meetings for the past year and didn't see anything that stood out, so they could be part of an older signing project or something done in-house.

I think everyone here assumed they wouldn't replace the signage to the MUTCD style until necessary, but I'm not sure the Turnpike ever technically said that.

I'm pretty sure I remember Alps mentioning in either this thread a long time ago, in discussion about the MUTCD signage from 9 northward, that the NJTA had no plans to replace the signage with MUTCD signage until the signage was due for replacement, which would clearly be 20-25 years since it was all new. I believe that to be a NJTA standard and most signage south of 6 was replaced in the mid aughts, so I'm surprised that they suddenly decided to move towards MUTCD signage there.

[Alps]

Some MUTCD style exit signs have popped up on the southern section of the NJTP at Exit 4 and 5 southbound. Just one advance sign at each was put up, so you get a mismatch of styles for the time being.

That's surprising. I thought all the signage south of 6 was going to exist as is until it was due for replacement, and the signage south of there was replaced in the late aughts, not long before the widening project.

Signage lasts about 20 years, so if they replaced it after 10 years it's not horribly early, especially if they decided to go all in on maintaining a single style on the entire roadway.  I looked thru the minutes of the meetings for the past year and didn't see anything that stood out, so they could be part of an older signing project or something done in-house.

I think everyone here assumed they wouldn't replace the signage to the MUTCD style until necessary, but I'm not sure the Turnpike ever technically said that.

I'm pretty sure I remember Alps mentioning in either this thread a long time ago, in discussion about the MUTCD signage from 9 northward, that the NJTA had no plans to replace the signage with MUTCD signage until the signage was due for replacement, which would clearly be 20-25 years since it was all new. I believe that to be a NJTA standard and most signage south of 6 was replaced in the mid aughts, so I'm surprised that they suddenly decided to move towards MUTCD signage there.

I don't recall mentioning that. It would be no more than a guess on my part. Technically, a sign lasts 12 years.

[storm2k]

Some MUTCD style exit signs have popped up on the southern section of the NJTP at Exit 4 and 5 southbound. Just one advance sign at each was put up, so you get a mismatch of styles for the time being.

That's surprising. I thought all the signage south of 6 was going to exist as is until it was due for replacement, and the signage south of there was replaced in the late aughts, not long before the widening project.

Signage lasts about 20 years, so if they replaced it after 10 years it's not horribly early, especially if they decided to go all in on maintaining a single style on the entire roadway.  I looked thru the minutes of the meetings for the past year and didn't see anything that stood out, so they could be part of an older signing project or something done in-house.

I think everyone here assumed they wouldn't replace the signage to the MUTCD style until necessary, but I'm not sure the Turnpike ever technically said that.

I'm pretty sure I remember Alps mentioning in either this thread a long time ago, in discussion about the MUTCD signage from 9 northward, that the NJTA had no plans to replace the signage with MUTCD signage until the signage was due for replacement, which would clearly be 20-25 years since it was all new. I believe that to be a NJTA standard and most signage south of 6 was replaced in the mid aughts, so I'm surprised that they suddenly decided to move towards MUTCD signage there.

I don't recall mentioning that. It would be no more than a guess on my part. Technically, a sign lasts 12 years.

Well if 12 years is the official replacement point, then seeing new signs crop up now will make sense, and would suggest we'd see new signs in the 6-9 area starting in the next year or two.

[roadman65]

And yet the former Exit 6 overhead stood over 50 years without need to replace or fall to metal fatigue during that time period.  If the NJTA never widened that part of the road who knows how long that classic gantry would have stayed up.

[storm2k]

And yet the former Exit 6 overhead stood over 50 years without need to replace or fall to metal fatigue during that time period.  If the NJTA never widened that part of the road who knows how long that classic gantry would have stayed up.

Pretty forever most likely. They had plenty of signage from the late 1960s/early 1970s from the original dualization that stood the test of time pretty well.

[Alps]

And yet the former Exit 6 overhead stood over 50 years without need to replace or fall to metal fatigue during that time period.  If the NJTA never widened that part of the road who knows how long that classic gantry would have stayed up.

That one was non-reflective. Reflective signs last 12 years due to average wear. Sun exposure and the elements can change that.

[jeffandnicole]

Some MUTCD style exit signs have popped up on the southern section of the NJTP at Exit 4 and 5 southbound. Just one advance sign at each was put up, so you get a mismatch of styles for the time being.

That's surprising. I thought all the signage south of 6 was going to exist as is until it was due for replacement, and the signage south of there was replaced in the late aughts, not long before the widening project.

Signage lasts about 20 years, so if they replaced it after 10 years it's not horribly early, especially if they decided to go all in on maintaining a single style on the entire roadway.  I looked thru the minutes of the meetings for the past year and didn't see anything that stood out, so they could be part of an older signing project or something done in-house.

I think everyone here assumed they wouldn't replace the signage to the MUTCD style until necessary, but I'm not sure the Turnpike ever technically said that.

I'm pretty sure I remember Alps mentioning in either this thread a long time ago, in discussion about the MUTCD signage from 9 northward, that the NJTA had no plans to replace the signage with MUTCD signage until the signage was due for replacement, which would clearly be 20-25 years since it was all new. I believe that to be a NJTA standard and most signage south of 6 was replaced in the mid aughts, so I'm surprised that they suddenly decided to move towards MUTCD signage there.

And while he may or may not have said that, he may have said it years ago, and he only said "until due for replacement".  You're only assuming a time period.  I'm only assuming a time period.  But hey, things change.  The Turnpike may have fully intended on waiting until the end of its life-cycle, but something happened, or internal discussions took place, and the signage was changed early. 

I believe it was reported on here several pages back that they finally installed the I-95 shields on the thru signs between Exits 6 & 9...but in some cases changed out the entire sign, rather than placing the shield on the existing sign which would only be 7 years old or so.

Also, why do you think it was 'suddenly' decided?  Did you have any inside info that as of a few months ago it wasn't going to happen?  These projects can have multi-year long timelines.  The only thing you're going to see is the final product of the sign posted on the roadway.  Doesn't mean it was decided a week before to do that.  Hell, those signs could've been sitting into a warehouse for 6 months waiting to be installed!

[rant]Steve knows his shit.  But he can only say so much.  Just because it goes into someone's ear doesn't mean it's allowed to come out of one's mouth, or typed on one's keyboard.  I try stressing if anyone on here wants the info available to the public, look at the public records, which the Turnpike makes very available and prominent on their website.  This details every construction project that goes out to bid; every contract over a minimal amount that the Turnpike enters into.  There's a lot of great stuff in those documents.  I would think these would be must-read documents that contains a lot of great info - just like that big ol' MUTCD - but people constantly would rather just use he-said, she-said, ASSume, coulda-woulda type info.[end rant]

[NJRoadfan]

Here we go
Exit 5: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/2020-07-12_10_04_34_will_rename_and_categorize_soon_39.jpg

Exit 4: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/2020-07-12_10_15_27_will_rename_and_categorize_soon_43.jpg

[jeffandnicole]

Here we go
Exit 5: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/2020-07-12_10_04_34_will_rename_and_categorize_soon_39.jpg

This one looks temporary. Being the entire gantry was removed, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire gantry is replaced.

[Alps]

Here we go
Exit 5: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/2020-07-12_10_04_34_will_rename_and_categorize_soon_39.jpg

Exit 4: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/2020-07-12_10_15_27_will_rename_and_categorize_soon_43.jpg

I wonder if those were upgrades or knockdowns.

[NJRoadfan]

Would be nice if they posted CR-541 after all these years.

[bluecountry]

I still maintain:

1.  I see expanding the NJTP from 2 to 3 lanes from the DE Mem Bridge to exit 4 is not needed.
-Exit 4 to exit 3/2 yes, but 2 south I don't see it, traffic is free flowing.
    -IF they do this, it should come after other priorities listed below AND they really need to make sure the NJTP in the souther area can keep the 'parkway' type feel it has with the green canopy.

2.  Why is the NJTP so against having 4 lanes in each direction?  I really do think from Exit 6 to Exit 4 it should be 4 lanes in each direction

3.  I wish they would do multiple cross-overs from the cars only to cars-bus lanes.